Game 78 Open Thread: June 30, 2006

by lboros on Jun 30, 2006 5:54 PM EDT in News Comment 200 comments

the angels DFA 'd jeff weaver today; i wouldn't mind seeing the cardinals take a flyer. not if it's going to cost any worthwhile talent, mind you, but the angels don't have a whole lot of trade leverage here. if the cardinals can get him for, say, john gall or larry bigbie or reid gorecki -- well, why not?

i suppose there is the matter of weaver's 2006 performance . . . .

you'll argue that he's no better than the rag arms we already have, and maybe you're right. but i think he has something left, and the ante is now low enough -- $115K for the balance of the season -- that it's worth placing the bet. he's had a painfully bad 1st half, but this is still a guy who was a solid #3-type pitcher as recently as last season, when he won 14 games for a 71-91 team and posted 21 quality starts in 34 outings. this year, even as bad as he's pitched, weaver has turned in 7 q.s. in 16 tries -- the same ratio as marquis, and only 1 q.s. fewer than either suppan or mulder. despite the ugly w-l and era this year, he has the same low walk rate and good strikeout rate that made him successful in the past. with a return to the (easier) national league, where he had his two best years, and with some run support and a decent defense behind him, he might yet contribute some value.

another consideration: weaver has been a 2d-half pitcher the last couple of years. in 2005 he went 7-3 after the all-star break (7-8 before it) and lowered his era by half a run; in 2004 he was 7-4 after the break (6-9 before) and, again, improved his era by half a run. it does not strain the imagination to suggest that weaver might come in here, make 16 starts, turn in 9 or 10 quality starts and win 7 games. . . .

i can hardly believe i'm suggesting that the cards should bring in yet another rag-armed retread. but weaver is no sidney ponson. in 2004-05 he went 27-24 with an era of about 4.10 -- ie, he pitched somewhat better than matt morris. his established level of ability is inarguably better than ponson's, and at least equal to marquis' and suppan's. when the cardinals were rumored to have interest in weaver back in january, i pooh-poohed the idea -- but at that time it was thought that he would sign a multiyear deal at $10m per. now that you'd only have to pay him the same as you'd pay bo hart -- well, why not? if ponson's worth a $1m bet, this guy's got to be worth half the league minimum. best case: weaver pitches well enough for the cards to dump ponson; if/when mulder returns, the cards send marquis to the bullpen or trade him to an american league wild-card contender.

the discussion is probably moot -- it's thought pretty likely that the dodgers will reacquire weaver . . . .

cardinals diaspora reminds y'all to root, root, root for the sanders tonight when he returns to busch 3. reggie comes in hitting an even .250 with 9 hr and 38 rbi.

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Eduardo Perez

Was traded to Seattle today. Just FYI.

Also, Scott Seabol, who played for Memphis last year, looks to be bound for a team in South Korea, according to a story in the Albuquerque Journal this AM. He's having a very good year for the Isotopes and was named to the triple-A all-star team, but he has a wife and a couple of kids and can make 4x his current salary in Korea. Can't say I blame him. He's stuck at that AAAA level without much chance of scoring a regular gig with the Marlins.

by punditmoi on Jun 30, 2006 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would absolutely be for Jeff Weaver.

He's got more of a chance of being a difference-maker as the #3 than most of the pitchers on the trade market. He was nasty back when he was with Detroit, and I don't just mean his flowing hipster-mullet.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2006 6:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pass

Two words: head case. Granted, it's only one incident, but I saw what I saw.

The 26th Man

by 26thMan on Jun 30, 2006 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

bah

which head case would you rather have, Marquis or Weaver? I'll take the one who has shown he can actually strike people out.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But...

if we already have two head cases (Marquis, Mulder), why add another?

The 26th Man

by 26thMan on Jun 30, 2006 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

because

I believe Weaver could be better, much better Marquis and as good as Mulder when he's not banged up. If you pick up Weaver, you don't keep Marquis around...

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

anyway

just my opinion, but for the one incident you described, it seems like we've seen a million episodes of weirdness from Marquis.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

is it just me

or the last couple of years the same guys names keep coming up? For instance Weaver has been mentioned several times and i think there were a few others.

by punchinjudy on Jun 30, 2006 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pat Burrell?

Phils have sat Burrell 4 out of the last 5 games (including tonight) b/c he is slumping. But the guys has 19 dingers. I wonder what it would take to get him.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on Jun 30, 2006 6:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

lineups for tonight...

KC:
DeJesus, CF
Grudzielanek, 2B
Mientkiewicz, 1B
Sanders, RF
Teahen, 3B
Brown, LF
Berroa, SS
Buck, C
Duckworth, P

STL:
Eckstein, SS
Edmonds, CF
Pujols, 1B
Rolen, 3B
Encarnacion, RF
Taguchi, LF
Molina, C
Luna, 2B
Suppan, P

by lawman3842 on Jun 30, 2006 7:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Weaver

Why not try to get Jeff Weaver? Best case we hit the jackpot with a Chris Carpenter like turn around (Carp always had great stuff, not much in the way of stats prior to 04 - similar to Weaver). Worst case he plays as he historically has and is Jason Marquis (throw one of them in the bulpen and I'd feel better than I would with Thompson). Our investment is minimal and his stuff IMO is far better than Supps, Mulder, Ponson, Marquis and potentially as good as Reyes.

I would give up any of our AA prospects for Weaver (except Hawksworth). If the Cards pick up Weaver we could concentrate on finding someone with POP to play LF and bat in the five slot (Edmonds in 2, Enca 6).

The real decision is whether you go retread (Huff, Guillen, Sanders) or get something more... (Soriano, Lee, Crawford)

I wouldn't make the LF call until right at the trading deadline b/c to get an impact bat we would have to mortgage the future. Only if we have serious WS chances would I enter into the crapshoot that would be Soriano, Lee or Crawford (FA year for Soriano and Lee and you would undoubtedly have to overpay for Crawford)

by Lawless on Jun 30, 2006 7:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That looks like a major league lineup....

Good stuff!

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2006 7:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trade Rumors

According to a mlbtraderumors.com post today "Jocketty is shooting for the stars if he is to trade prospects for a starting pitcher. Word is that the Cards will either acquire a front-line pitcher - Dontrelle Willis or John Smoltz - or none at all." I'd wouldn't say Weaver is shooting for the stars, but mlbtraderumors.com does reference VEB's post about him. Also to get one of those guys we'd have to give up Reyes, Wainright, or Rasmus which I'd rather not do. Unless Jocketty can work his magic.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 30, 2006 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Best

news I have heard all day.

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Jun 30, 2006 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

there's evidence to

suggest that weaver hasn't been AS bad as his numbers. his HR rate is way up, but his fly ball rate is consistent with career norms.

part of me would still almost rather see Wainwright join the rotation and the bullpen filled out by Kinney, Cavazos, and/or Falkenborg OR even then a trade for a bullpen guy. why not make a run at it with some youngsters in the starting five, wouldn't be the first time an ML team has done it.

Cardinals Diaspora

by VanRam on Jun 30, 2006 7:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cavazos

Has anyone seen a scouting report on Cavazos? His numbers are lights out this year but I haven't heard anyone talk about his age, stuff, etc...

by Lawless on Jun 30, 2006 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

one more thing

isnt weaver prone to long ball ala Morris and on occasion Marquis?

by punchinjudy on Jun 30, 2006 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uhhh

Scott Spiezio is a lucky guy.

by rob is back on Jun 30, 2006 7:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

He's hitting THAT?

Wow.

by craig3410 on Jun 30, 2006 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's the troll-tee

n/t

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2006 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

She could wear a burlap sack

and would still be gorgeous.

by rob is back on Jun 30, 2006 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the troll-tee is his facial hair

which has magical woman-attracting powers.

But she still reminds me of Mrs. Featherbottom a little too much.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2006 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

is the girl in the tat...

... his now-wife? he has kids from another (presumably) serious relationship, and the two don't look very much alike, in my mind.

i guess it's got to be her; if not, then he must've had the thing removed. no way that woman is gonna marry some dude with red-dyed roadkill on his chin AND some other chick tattooed on his bicep.

by kindred on Jun 30, 2006 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If I remember correctly

it's the same girl. Or, it's supposed to be.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2006 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

She's much better looking than that tattoo

and the lady who looks like Dana Carvey playing the church lady too.

Guess I need to grow a troll-tee, if it works that well.

by rob is back on Jun 30, 2006 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or is that Mrs Doubtfire?

n/t

by rob is back on Jun 30, 2006 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No posts on the game for a while...

Apparently everyone is busy TIVOing Miss Spiezio.

by locolawyer on Jun 30, 2006 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For those of you who

missed it...
I mean them...
I mean her...

I mean here's a link -
http://www.insidestl.com/stlmusic/index.php?storyid=3

by azruavatar on Jun 30, 2006 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Holy crap; Spez has 12,000 CDs?

Jesus; where does he keep them???

by craig3410 on Jun 30, 2006 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Songs

He's an mp3 boy, apparently.

by sdrone on Jun 30, 2006 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

another pic

of miss spiezio, before she was married to scott

http://www.freejose.com/girls/profiles/jennifer-pankratz/jenniferpankratz.htm

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 30, 2006 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

u guys sure are excited about

fake boobs.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the score

....we're tied with the royals 1 to 1 in the 3rd for those of you still oogling Spiezio's wife.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 30, 2006 8:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

nevermind

now its 3 to 1 KC

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 30, 2006 8:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey sometimes good hitters just get you

and other times you server up 2 run gopher balls to sh*tty first basemen like Doug Mientkiewicz

by azruavatar on Jun 30, 2006 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tomorrow's matchup

Was just looking at tomorrow's matchup...

Vs. Mark Redman, Eck is...

12/24, 1 double, 1 triple, 2 HRs, with a line of .500/.563/.821/1.384

Wow.

by RedbirdRay on Jun 30, 2006 9:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

sure wish...

... miles was playing. Luna just can't get it done.

by kindred on Jun 30, 2006 9:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

do i detect

a healthy bit of sarcasm?

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

every other Cardinal...

... (with the possible exception of Gooch) would've been out at home on that play.

oh, and other than Pujols and Rolen, nobody else hits doubles anyway.

by kindred on Jun 30, 2006 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doubles...

Juan E?

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're right...

... for at least one week out of the month.

by kindred on Jun 30, 2006 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And how about Reggie

showing off his LF arm while playing RF. A hop and then the throw? What a slow release...

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 9:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let's go Scotty Potty

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 9:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Or don't...

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 9:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Teahen pulled a Bob Uecker

He missed the tag! He missed the tag!

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 9:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yadi, I know this is anathema to you

but hit this in the air

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 9:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice one, Yadi!

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 9:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

this...

... is starting to look like the Royals baseball that i know and love.

by kindred on Jun 30, 2006 9:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Al H. hit the nail on the head

(Unbelievably) - HBP and 3 singles - one run...

One would hope for more pop than that

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 9:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

RBI machine

Jeff Suppan...

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 9:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

soup-a-loop

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 30, 2006 9:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I mean, are we taking HGS...

..human growth shrinkers? Jesus, Albert's suddenly got warning track power and the rest of the team can't get the ball out of the infield sans the 1 or 2 XBH we get a game.

Might as well dust off that ole suicide squeeze Tony.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2006 9:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that would explain..

eckstein and miles. haha

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 30, 2006 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Danke Schoen, Angel Berroa!!

by craig3410 on Jun 30, 2006 9:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Royals now have 5 XBH to our 3.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2006 10:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hi i'm jeff suppan

i cant pitch with a lead

by punchinjudy on Jun 30, 2006 10:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hi Jeff!

Welcome to the support group, also called "Cardinal pitching staff".

We don't know how to either, but we're trying.

Our leader, whom we call "Dunc" is out of ideas for us...

Oh well, group hug everyone!

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Albert lead off the 5th inning....

...and now the 6th inning.

Hey big fella, the only way you can get an RBI is hitting one to the Musial Bridge.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2006 10:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Albert is now...

...4 for his last 22. He has 3 BBs, no XBH and one RBI.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2006 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah trade him

not that you wree but all those who have been laying to to Albert need to let up he just got back from a BACK injury...

by punchinjudy on Jun 30, 2006 10:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

what?

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2006 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

o

i have just read posts on here about how AP has his fare share of blame wiht the offenses struggles...maybe true but he just got back

by punchinjudy on Jun 30, 2006 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I posted those...

...and they are true.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2006 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

true or not

been back one week

by punchinjudy on Jun 30, 2006 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm sure not

worried about Albert's hitting, but i do worry about the fact that he was rushed off the DL. I just hope that doesn't have anything to do with it.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed with totally

by punchinjudy on Jun 30, 2006 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

anyone else hate..

how dan mclaughlin always shouts like its going to be a homer on any fly ball where the outfielders have to take more than 1 step back to catch it?

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 30, 2006 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cincy wins

with a walkoff grand slam by Dunn

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 10:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the bright side of that

I have Dunn on my fantasy team - and I need HRs and RBIs

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're not going to believe this but...

...the Indians were beating the Reds 7-0 midway through the 8th inning.

They gave up 4 runs in the bottom of the 8th, but got one back in the Top of the 9th. So, going into the home half of the 9th, the score was 8-4.

And the following happened:

Bottom 9TH B:0 S:0 O:0
Pitcher Change: Bob Wickman replaces Fausto Carmona, batting 9th.

Bottom 9TH B:2 S:2 O:1
Scott Hatteberg pops out to shortstop Jhonny Peralta.

Bottom 9TH B:3 S:1 O:1
Austin Kearns singles on a line drive to left fielder Todd Hollandsworth.

Bottom 9TH B:0 S:1 O:1
With Brandon Phillips batting, Austin Kearns steals (6) 2nd base.

Bottom 9TH B:3 S:1 O:1
Brandon Phillips singles on a soft line drive to right fielder Franklin Gutierrez. Austin Kearns to 3rd.

Bottom 9TH B:3 S:2 O:1
With Javier Valentin batting, wild pitch by Bob Wickman, Brandon Phillips to 2nd.

Bottom 9TH B:3 S:2 O:2
Javier Valentin grounds out to first baseman Ben Broussard. Austin Kearns scores. Brandon Phillips to 3rd.

Bottom 9TH B:0 S:0 O:2
Offensive Substitution: Pinch hitter Ryan Freel replaces Kent Mercker.

Bottom 9TH B:4 S:1 O:2
Ryan Freel walks.

Bottom 9TH B:1 S:0 O:2
With Felipe Lopez batting, Ryan Freel advances to 2nd on defensive indifference.

Bottom 9TH B:4 S:0 O:2
Felipe Lopez walks.

Bottom 9TH B:1 S:0 O:2
Adam Dunn hits a grand slam (26) to right field. Brandon Phillips scores. Ryan Freel scores. Felipe Lopez scores.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2006 10:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

kent merker?

he's still around?

by punchinjudy on Jun 30, 2006 10:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

My thoughts exactly!

Isn't he like 50 by now? As I recall, he had a dead arm when we had him. Is Cincy that desperate for a warm body with a "fast"ball?

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Jul 1, 2006 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

$%&* this team!

oh, well. it's hard to be mad at Wainwright, but Mark Teahen????!!!!

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 10:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Timo to the rescue...

oh maybe not.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 30, 2006 10:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Timo you SUCK.

also, I searched really fast and nobody appears to have mentioned it, but Jaime Garcia pitched really well in his second high-A start. Seven innings, no runs, five strikeouts, no walks.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2006 10:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Garcia

somehow managed to throw 7 shutout innings, giving up 10 hits. I don't know whether he got lucky or just toughens when the going gets rough. I hope it's the later. A 19-year old with that kind of make up would be encouraging.

by punditmoi on Jun 30, 2006 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jimmy is breaking my heart

it just pains me to see him struggle like this.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 10:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

edmonds is a bum

get him out of there. i dont care how. sit him. put him on the disabled list. he's spent.

by brock on Jun 30, 2006 10:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah let's put our other average-hitting

centerfielder who plays plus defense out there!

oh, wait.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2006 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

man, I hope you're not around the first year

Pujols only hits .300.

by sdrone on Jun 30, 2006 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

chris hammond designated by Reds

hmm...jk

by punchinjudy on Jun 30, 2006 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i didn't see the play

but should that have been a DP? It just seems this team isn't able to turn 2 like it did last season. of course it's hard to turn 2 when the opposition is drilling balls all the time off your pitching staff. but when the opps come, it seems like they aren't getting them enough.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 11:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

well Al said

99 times out of 100 Rolen turns that double play. But that 9 out of 10, 99 out of 100 crap is what Dan and Al say all the time to make the cards look better when they screw up. Another thing I can't stand.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 30, 2006 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hm

All I'll say is Grudz participated in turning two, twice tonight.

by Elle on Jul 1, 2006 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For the love of God

what is going on with the pitching staff???

I want to throw my computer outr the window. Or on my head - whichever will kill the pain...

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It is times like this

where I feel like re-enacting the Will Ferrell sketch: "Janet Reno's Dance Party".

"Dancing makes the pain of the Cardinals pitching staff go away..."

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Come on big boys

PLEASE! 2 run HR by Scotty Potty!

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

FYI

I wasn't root, root, rooting for Reggie in that particular at-bat...

by SleepyCA on Jun 30, 2006 11:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Alright Albert

Treat Elmer Dessens like he's Elmer Dessens.

by whopperman on Jun 30, 2006 11:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey Al

what does Dessens being Mexican have to do with his pitching style???

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Was that vintage Albert or what?

Pitch that's almost impossible to pull or drive, so he just hits a liner to center.

TO ALBERT PUJOLS!

by whopperman on Jun 30, 2006 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm calling it

2 run HR - Scotty Potty

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rule #1

I'm an idiot

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nah,

but maybe it's time for the nickname to die.. :D

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a one-run single

By JEnc would be just as good...

by SleepyCA on Jun 30, 2006 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or taguchi.

;)

by SleepyCA on Jun 30, 2006 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed - I would take it

or a bases loaded walk by Molina

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Minky !

curse his great glove!

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 11:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Man on 3rd, 1 out

FLY BALL FLY BALL FLY BALL!!!!

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How about...

... a walk off squeeze?

by punditmoi on Jun 30, 2006 11:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It would make a nice contrast...

... to the way the Reds ended their game.

by punditmoi on Jun 30, 2006 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

mmm...

Daddy likey...

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow...

Pinch-hitting for Yadier. I guess that means Bennett is available.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a GOOD hitter here?

by whopperman on Jun 30, 2006 11:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

not with the force

by brock on Jun 30, 2006 11:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm guessing...

... no squiezio with spiezio.

by punditmoi on Jun 30, 2006 11:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Quick poll

Jen Speizio or the girl in pink behind home plate last week?

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

From what I can see...

... on gameday, I'll go with the girl in pink.

by punditmoi on Jun 30, 2006 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Miles for Luna?

eh, this strict platoon must die!

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 11:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed - I'm not a fan

I like Luna's bat much better than Miles.

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Spiezio is sleeping on the couch tonight...

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And I'm taking his spot

in bed with Jenn.

by ryanisforever on Jun 30, 2006 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so who has

the weaker bullpen?

by punchinjudy on Jun 30, 2006 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

OMG

WHY Miles?

by ryanisforever on Jun 30, 2006 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

AARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that pitcher is impressive

i wish we had him instead of izzy

by brock on Jun 30, 2006 11:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No you don't.

Burgos throws a thousand miles an hour, but that doesn't make him GOOD. His control is Izzyesque and his HR rate is even worse.

Aaron Miles just can't hit a 97-mph fastball, and Speez came up empty himself.

by whopperman on Jun 30, 2006 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Those nine home runs in 35 innings

really make you confident in his ability?

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2006 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not that impressive

With an ERA of 6.56 and a WHIP of 1.63. He does average 1+ K/INN, though.

by locolawyer on Jun 30, 2006 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if miles was facing izzy

i'm sure it would be the same result

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 30, 2006 11:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i dont know

miles battled pretty well. the guy just threw too hard for him. izzy would've walked one of those guys

by brock on Jun 30, 2006 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

in any case

i wish we had a guy who could touch 97 in the pen

by brock on Jun 30, 2006 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

At some point, you want the ability to strike somebody out.

Hopefully that's in the process of being fixed in the farm system.

by whopperman on Jun 30, 2006 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

here we go...

pen time

by punchinjudy on Jun 30, 2006 11:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ah, crap

this game is slipping out of reach.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If they lose to the Royals

they lose all credibility. It's bad enough that two of their runs came from Suppan and the bad defense, but to just completely blow it with the bases loaded is ridiculous. Of course if that stupid runt Aaron Miles wouldn't have batted, the game would be over.

Now Stairs is going to crush one.

by ryanisforever on Jun 30, 2006 11:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Teams that have lost to the Royals this year

and thereby lose all credibility:

White Sox (three times)
Indians (five times)
Twins (twice)
Yankees

Around mid-May I stopped counting

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2006 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

But this game was handed on a silver platter with a bow tie for the Cardinals. How a team does not put away the stinking Royals with the bases loaded and one out is beyond ridiculous.

by ryanisforever on Jun 30, 2006 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The baseball gods have smited us!

by locolawyer on Jun 30, 2006 11:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice throw, So

Maybe next time you'll get less than 12 bounces.

by ryanisforever on Jun 30, 2006 11:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There is too much negativity around here

Understandable, given the current situation. But this team isn't that bad. This is just a really rough patch that they can't seem to dig themselves out of.

by locolawyer on Jun 30, 2006 11:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

actually

it's not a very good team . . . .

by lboros on Jun 30, 2006 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bingo

Not good at all.

by ryanisforever on Jun 30, 2006 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I take it back!

This bullpen gives up runs like it's candy!

by locolawyer on Jun 30, 2006 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

of course

as i once heard a group of cub fans exclaim at wrigley: tommorrow is turnaround day.

by brock on Jun 30, 2006 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe there is

we still have a winning team, but now we're in second place (or soon will be). i think the writing is on the wall.

the starting pitching is mediocre to bad.
the pop is gone, as their just isn't much power.

no, this team isn't bad. they are playing bad. but they just don't seem to be no where near as good as we've gotten accustomed to the last 2 seasons. It's just hard to go from great to pretty good-pretty mediocre.

i dunno, it's just how i see it.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We will be tied for first...

...the season series may have us in second.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2006 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Division Opponents

The Reds run differential is...+3. That's going to catch up to them at some point. (ref: 2005 Nationals circa June 30th vs. End of the year)

Milwaukee is -50, Houston is -38, (just for good measure) the Cubs -99.

A diamond is just a lump of coal that performed well under pressure

by joker24 on Jul 1, 2006 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but the Cards are...

...only +17 now.

by whopperman on Jul 1, 2006 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I 1/2 forgot about that...

We're on a 9/10 skid so +17 is a little skewed. We aren't that good, but we aren't a .100 team by a long stretch either.

We're still fairly close to our pythagorean (mostly because of the Chi-town blowouts I would assume)...the Reds are 4 wins ahead of schedule.

Plus, combine the facts that Bronson Arroyo has pitched out of his mind, he's thrown 109.9 pitches per start, Eric Milton and Joe Mays are going to get more starts, Griffey will get hurt,

A diamond is just a lump of coal that performed well under pressure

by joker24 on Jul 1, 2006 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate laptops

...and you can't like the Reds likelihood to improve that +3.

Meanwhile, Marquis, however bad, is probably not a 5.82 ERA pitcher, Reyes is in the rotation, Pujols is back, Rolen is getting better, Molina isn't hitting .160, Encarnacion isn't hitting .200 and I like our odds of tacking on that +17.

A diamond is just a lump of coal that performed well under pressure

by joker24 on Jul 1, 2006 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Taguchi was lazy on that ball

I've always enjoyed watching So play in the outfield, he's always been exceptional.

But that would get a HS player yanked mid-inning. I know it wasn't deep, but you HAVE TO be ready to make a good throw. That didn't even require a good throw. Even a bad throw that he gets his body into gets Teahen by 10-15 feet.

Granted, Teahen might not have run and then scored on the hit afterwards. But yet another frustrating loss.

by whopperman on Jul 1, 2006 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Has anyone else lost MLB TV?

by Lawless on Jun 30, 2006 11:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i wish.

It stopped being fun to watch some time ago.

by SleepyCA on Jun 30, 2006 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately

no...

by Dick Pound on Jun 30, 2006 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To get Albert to the plate...

...not that that means what it used to mean:

Someone has to get on
No double plays

Even if he comes up with a runner on, we can only tie it. 2 have to get on to win it.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2006 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

why was it miles instead of john rod. in the ninth

can someone explain that to me. you had a fastball pitcher. isn't rod a fastball hitter. what the hell is miles anyway?

by brock on Jun 30, 2006 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This has been puzzling me for some time now

Maybe they wanted to save Rodriguez, but it does seem like they've been trying to keep him from facing fastball pitchers for some reason. I've wondered about this myself.

by rob is back on Jul 1, 2006 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

world's ending

etc

by DanUpBaby on Jun 30, 2006 11:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ha

exactly at which point will you begin getting upset, Danno?

by kindred on Jul 1, 2006 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

seriously

defend this team dan. I honestly want to hear it. i don't mean that sarcastically, i really think if anyone can do it, you can. please, give us some hope!!!! if you can spell it out for us, i'd believe you.

maybe it's late, maybe i'm just being an overly emotional fan, but this team...blah!

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 1, 2006 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good plan.

I guess not everyone can follow my plan of being so stupidly neurotic about everything else that the Cardinals seem like a total constant. (Though I do recommend it.)

Time to sit down, watch a completely innocuous, undepressing movie (I went with My Man Godfrey) and write about it.

by DanUpBaby on Jul 1, 2006 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm gonna go throw up

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 30, 2006 11:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Smited again! Why?! Why?!

by locolawyer on Jun 30, 2006 11:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Cardinals bullpen:

Snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 30, 2006 11:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sigh

I'm not even going to bother watching the rest of this series. Doing that would only make me bulimic.

by ryanisforever on Jun 30, 2006 11:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

maybe it's time

to jump on the Detroit Tiger banDwagon before it gets full.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jun 30, 2006 11:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

honestly

if cleveland hadn't made 2 mindbogglingly bad fielding errors in the 9th we'd be staring at a 10th loss in a row to american league teams. Lately, the pen is porous, there has been no power from our bats, and tonight Larussa decided to get into the act of creating losses and subbed a somewhat strikeout prone Spezio for a good contact hitter Molina with one out and the bases loaded. Yeah I know he was trying to avoid the double play with the slow footed Molina but I'd take my chances with a ball in play against KC. Being a cards fan is painful these days - hope we can break this curse soon.

by satori21 on Jun 30, 2006 11:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

But by that same token

the Cardinals gave away tonight's game, so it really is a wash.

by ryanisforever on Jun 30, 2006 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

how so?

the Cards got two RBIs from their pitcher (1st 2RBI game in Soup's career), got another run directly from an error.

their runs were all legit. they outplayed us. and that isn't good.

by kindred on Jul 1, 2006 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because

Mark Teahen should have been gunned down by five miles. Taguchi also should not have allowed DeJesus to get the leadoff double in the 1st inning.

by ryanisforever on Jul 1, 2006 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

neither of those plays...

... are gimmies. Gooch could've done better, but he didn't "give" it away. not like KC tried to, by letting Suppan beat them with the bat and erroring in a few runs.

by kindred on Jul 1, 2006 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A 200-foot fly ball to left

Isn't a gimme?

by whopperman on Jul 1, 2006 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Letting Suppan beat them

is giving the game away but making a 15-hopper to home plate on against Mark Teahen isn't? And it's not like Taguchi just made a bad throw. His approach to the ball was terrible and his approach to the plate was terrible. That's a high school mistake.

by ryanisforever on Jul 1, 2006 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tied for first.

Woo!

I should become a Mariners fan; at least they're not expected to win.

by craig3410 on Jun 30, 2006 11:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i don't think sucking would sting as bad

but i have no hope for the future b/c our farm system sucks so bad.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 1, 2006 12:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No, it doesn't

It's started to turn around.

by ryanisforever on Jul 1, 2006 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pujols is now

5 for 25. No XBH, 3 BBs and 1 RBI.

That's no bueno.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2006 12:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Is this the current week's stats

or his line since coming off the DL, because I'm pretty sure he had two RBI's and a home run against Detroit last Friday.

by ryanisforever on Jul 1, 2006 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is since his 4 for 4 game...

....his first game back he went 0 for 4 and then the next day he went 4 for 4. Since that point, he's gone 5 for 25 with no XBH, 3 BB and 1 RBI.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2006 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gotcha.

by ryanisforever on Jul 1, 2006 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

do you guys think this team

is headed below the .500 mark?
i'm not sure i could take it.

by brock on Jul 1, 2006 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i used to

enjoy this place for the trade talk and what not, but there are so many negative nacies out there...not to mention names "hardcore" i want to see them win, but i'm not going to throw out statistics of guys who just came off the DL.

is this season really a shocker? We all posted on hear how worried we were going into the season. The off season was bad, and it is showing...not that i would have overspent...anyway

You can be real and negative, but there has to be a line..well for me there is.

by punchinjudy on Jul 1, 2006 12:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

OTOH

You need to be honest with yourself about the team at some point. I've hit that point.

by sdrone on Jul 1, 2006 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

and i see the flaws in the team, it just angers me withall the up to date stats of how bad AP is playing whne he's been back one week.

Hardcore that is what soured me on you, you could have stuck up for underacheiving guys, but the Pujols thing...it's like give the man a break...your stats true...but i felt lacking coothe.

All i'm saying is we all knew this team would struggle. Go back to ST.

i think there is a line from mere obeservations to blatan negativity

by punchinjudy on Jul 1, 2006 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What?

"Go back to ST."

I was posting up-to-date stats when he was on base to break two of the most cherished records in baseball.

Lost in the mix of how bad the bullpen is, how small the rotation has been is the fact that Rolen has played REALLY well and Albert's (sans one good day) has been un-Albert like.

I'm not sure why I am explaining myself to you.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2006 4:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was the most positive guy around here up until..

..about 8 games ago. There is a limit though. Why should I continue to have confidence in a team that betrays that confidence every chance they get?

I've stuck up for Jim Edmonds even though he's playing some of his worst offensive baseball of his career. I've stuck up for Miles while other have said he doesn't deserve to be with the team. I praised Duncan for his talent, while others said it was just a case of being 'Daddy's boy'.

There comes a point when players that are better than they are playing don't deserve you looking like an idiot with you arguing against their stats.

I was praising Pujols for being a powerhitter and a clutch guy, one of his biggest fans, and others on here told me they didn't care about him mashing the ball for homeruns and going after Bonds/Hack. Well, if he wants to be a 'singles' hitter, then hit some singles. Stop popping the ball up.

I love the Cardinals and the fact that there are only a handful of players from the 2004 team left on the roster irratates me to no end, but I embrace the team we have. But quite frankly, despite all my wishing in the world at the beginning of this month...they are playing like crap.

Get off your soapbox.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2006 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i do

agree with most of what you said about JED but price would have to be right.

by punchinjudy on Jul 1, 2006 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The fact that only a handful of players from '04

irritates you? So, you want Reggie and Walker back in the outfield? You want Tony Womack back at second base? Ray King and Julian Tavarez in the bullpen, Mike Matheny behind the plate? Matt Morris and Woody Williams in the rotation?

The only one I would want back at this point is Renteria. Be more irritated about the fact that the Cardinals have not been able to upgrade rather than keeping the '04 team together.

by ryanisforever on Jul 1, 2006 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The alternatives to the 2004 team don't look so...

...hot, do they?

The bright spots have been youth, but other than that they haven't made upgrades but rather believed they could fill in spare parts. They, in essence, decided to go a different direction. Even after last season, a team that with a healthy Scott Rolen, I believe, gets past the Astros yet again. Yet, once again, they gut the team and 'replace' guys rather than upgrade.

Tony Womack may have been a flake, but watch Game 7 of that NLCS. He was a spark plug out there with a bad back. I don't particularly want Womack back, per se...but come on: Grudz, Miles or Luna? Why even let Womack walk if that is what you are going to replace him with?

There is no speed on the Cardinals team now, sans Luna, Gooch and maybe Miles or Eck. With Womack, Cedeno, Reggie, Edgar and Anderson if we need a baserunner late in a game, they could score from first on a double. Now, I have my doubts.

It just seems, 2 years removed that instead of saying 'hey, we almost won a World Series...let's fill in the missing pieces and get over the top' they said, 'hey, we didn't win the World Series...we've gotta rethink this whole thing.'

Maybe looking at it more objectively there are obvious holes blown in my mini-rant here, I wouldn't doubt that. However, 3 weeks ago, I still thought this was a team that could win the World Series. Right now, if this were any other organization besides the Cardinals (for good or bad) there would be talk of the manager losing his job. I have serious doubts right now that the Cardinals can get out of the first round of the playoffs. I still believe they can win the Central and realistically the rest of the NL is so bad that if they don't draw the Mets in the Divisional Series, they can get to the NLCS again. Unless they pull their heads out of their collective asses and play to their potential (some actually are) or they make a move here before the trade deadline...it's only going to get worse.

Realistically, in the bottom of the 9th inning of Game 7 of the NLCS, bases loaded...1 out and Billy Wagner on the mound...on our bench we've got John Rodriguez, Aaron Miles and Scott Speizo to get us a fly ball to win the game? If we can't do it against the Royals, I begin to have my doubts.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2006 4:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

It's not that I don't agree with your thoughts. They were right there and have take three steps backward since. The only issue I have with your post is this:

"Tony Womack may have been a flake, but watch Game 7 of that NLCS. He was a spark plug out there with a bad back. I don't particularly want Womack back, per se...but come on: Grudz, Miles or Luna? Why even let Womack walk if that is what you are going to replace him with?"

I have no clue what Grudzielanek or Hector Luna have done to earn your ire, but I believe you're wrong. Second base is not a position that needs to be filled with someone who puts up Pujols numbers. Both Grudz and Luna are better defensively than Womack and are upgrades over anything the Cardinals could have gotten. The elite second baseman--Loretta, Soriano, Roberts, etc--only one could have been obtained...Loretta. I'm content with giving Luna the position every day. It's not his fault that his manager keeps cutting him off at the knees and doesn't allow him to thrive.

"There is no speed on the Cardinals team now, sans Luna, Gooch and maybe Miles or Eck. With Womack, Cedeno, Reggie, Edgar and Anderson if we need a baserunner late in a game, they could score from first on a double. Now, I have my doubts."

Okay, Roger Cedeno was an absolute liability to this team, and Marlon Anderson = Timo Perez. If the Cardinals need a pinch-runner, they can throw in Miles or Marquis. Rolen, Eckstein, Luna, Encarnacion and Taguchi can all score from first on a double, so this is a moot complaint.

by ryanisforever on Jul 1, 2006 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Marquis and Juan as pinch runners?

The same Juan Encarnacion that doesn't appear to run after flyballs in rightfield?

And I wasn't asking for a second basemen that could put up Pujols-like numbers, but I really don't see how Grudz/Miles/Luna are improvements:

Womack 2004
.307BA .349 OBP 26 Stolen Bases, 5 HR, 3 3B, 22 2B and 38 RBI, 60 Ks

Grudz 2005
.294 BS .334 OBP 8 Stolen Bases, 8 HR, 3 3B, 30 2B and 59 RBIs, 81 Ks

Grudz drove in more runs and had alittle more power, but he was also further down in the order.

Defensively, Grudz may have been better, to the tune of 8 less errors but I don't see why Womack gets lambasted on here as being a joke. He gave the Cardinals a legit lead-off hitter. In 2005, only playing in 108 games, he still stole more bases than any Cardinals player.

It just doesn't make any sense. If Womack was such a liability, why replace him with a guy that is just as good at best? When they couldn't secure Renteria and Womack left, they let two guys who could potentially lead off walk, and replaced them with a mediocre (but scrappy) leadoff hitter in David Eckstein.

That's not getting it done. When you have players like Edmonds, Carp, Pujols, Rolen and such, you look for guys that can fill 'roles' to help win games.

2005-Got rid of two lead-off hitters, starting pitcher
2006-Lost two power bats and a consitent (but homerun happy) starting pitcher.

All throughout that, they've jetisoned parts from the bullpen (for better or worse).

So, where are the replacements? Grudz, Luna, Juan, Bigby, Mulder, Ponson and a plethora of bullpen guys to replace Renteria, Womack, Sanders, Walker, Woody Williams and Matt Morris?

Obvioulsy, I love the team we have. I hadn't had more fun with a team than I did with our second half roster last season. Bunch of guys catching a bus back and forth from Memphis and such.

However, if you stop, look back at the 2004 playoffs and then look at the team right now...people said that a rebuilding is in the near future? It's already here. If JEd leaves after this season and starting pitchers aren't resigned...the team that took the Cardinals to their first World Series in 15 or so years won't be what the team on the field looks like.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2006 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

"Defensively, Grudz may have been better, to the tune of 8 less errors but I don't see why Womack gets lambasted on here as being a joke. He gave the Cardinals a legit lead-off hitter. In 2005, only playing in 108 games, he still stole more bases than any Cardinals player."

You're making the assumption that stolen bases mean jack squat. They don't. Not only is he better to the tune of eight fewer errors, but I'd venture to say he has a stronger arm and more range.

"It just doesn't make any sense. If Womack was such a liability, why replace him with a guy that is just as good at best? When they couldn't secure Renteria and Womack left, they let two guys who could potentially lead off walk, and replaced them with a mediocre (but scrappy) leadoff hitter in David Eckstein."

Eckstein is mediocre? Interesting take. I'd like to see where a .363 OBP ranked amongst leadoff hitters in 2005. And nobody said that Womack was a liability. He became one in 2005. Don't you think Jocketty knew that Womack was going to sour? What alternatives were available in 2005 that were better than Grudzielanek? I'd love to see that list.

by ryanisforever on Jul 1, 2006 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stolen bases do mean quite a bit....

...I can think of atleast 4 instances this year that Tony has got the lead off runner caught in a strike 'em out/throw 'em out, not to mention the DPs we've had from the 2 hole.

Old and slow teams that don't steal bases end up like the New York Yankees. You've got to hit people around to move the runner forward.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2006 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think the harping on albert's

most recent 25-at-bat sample is pretty pointless. the guy kept up an 80-hr, 200-rbi pace for two months, and singlehandedly made a .500ish team look like a world series contender.

is your point that he's letting the team down because he didn't hit 3 hr and drive in 8 runs this week?

by lboros on Jul 1, 2006 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, the point is that our best hitter came up in..

..in situations and didn't come through.

Through April and May, as iffy as the pitching was, if guys could get on and get Albert to the plate, he could get a hit and either extend and inning or drive in runs.

He just hasn't done that lately and the offense has suffered for it. That's all.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2006 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he can't come through

every time.

trouble is, the rest of the team is so mediocre that albert has to come through every time, or else they lose.

pujols was hitting above .500 with RISP before he got hurt. you seem to be saying that .500 is his expected level of performance, and anything less than that is a disappointment.

that's an unfair burden to place on any player, no matter how good.

by lboros on Jul 1, 2006 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with everything you say..

...all I was illustrating is that take this stretch he is having right here, and put it earlier in the season and we'd be looking at potentially a below .500 team.

We sink or swim with Albert or even Rolen. Without being able to use Albert as a flotation device, we are sinking...hard.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2006 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if that's your position now

we don't disagree. but a few days ago you were phrasing your position somewhat differently ---

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/comments/2006/6/28/173156/662/17#17

and comparing him, in the title of your comment, to A-Rod, who is (unfairly) being cast these days as an "unclutch" player.

that, i still disagree with.

by lboros on Jul 1, 2006 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, my position is still the same...

...I don't think you are understanding it though.

Albert has carried this team for the entire season. His slump right now has probably cost the Cardinals 2 or 3 wins. Is that to say he is the REASON they lost? No. But if he is his traditional 'Albert' self, they win those games.

Let's say, he had the chance to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. He wasn't able to do that. More than likely, it's because he still isn't getting full rotation on his back when he swings.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2006 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think the operative word

is "blame."

in your original post, which i linked above, you state albert has to share in the "blame" for the losing streak --- and the reason, as outlined in great detail, is that in a number of instances he didn't get hits with men on base.

i'm challenging the notion that his failure in those situations warrants "blame." it does warrant "concern," which you have been expressing in your more recent posts. i'm in agreement with "concern."

but not blame.

by lboros on Jul 1, 2006 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

tommorrow is turnaround day.

by brock on Jul 1, 2006 12:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tony Womack

Does he have anything left to contribute? He was just DFAed by the Cubs. He was hitting .280 this year. Would a return to the Cards help him claim some of his late career and help us at the top of the order to get more folks on in front of Albert? At this point I am really searching for anything to turn this thing around. I must be I have thought about the Cards adding Weaver and now Womack. That is sad isn't it?

by TexasCard on Jul 1, 2006 1:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Weaver, Maybe; Womack, No

I'd take a chance on Weaver, who might help in a now very unsettled rotation or might do long work in the bullpen. But Womack 2006 doesn't add anything beyond Miles/Luna.

by madridbend on Jul 1, 2006 5:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Weaver may be having a bad year

but comparing him to Womack is a bit rough. In 2004 and 2005 he was a steady quality-start type, basically Suppan with better peripherals, and in his Tigers days he was considered to have ace potential. Womack is almost the exact opposite--he's only had one really solid year, 2004, and other than that he's been basically no better than Aaron Miles. And certainly not better than Hector Luna.

by DanUpBaby on Jul 1, 2006 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Weaver

Why are people saying we can get him for league min in a trade? He's making a little over 8 million this year so if you trade for him you get to pick up half that unless you get LAA to eat some of it. We can only sign him for min if he is released. I think LAA will find someone to give up a B- type prospect for him and maybe eat half his remaining salary. I'm all for taking a shot though, he's been very unlucky on BABIP and HR/F so far this year, his K/BB is still intact.

by mikedallas23 on Jul 1, 2006 8:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

because he got DFA'd

which stands for "designated for assignment."

somebody correct me if i'm wrong, but being DFA'd is a variation upon getting waived. the team that DFAs a player is responsible for his contract, just as they are in a waiver situation; any team that subsequently acquires the player is only on the hook for the league minimum (or a pro-rated share thereof).

by lboros on Jul 1, 2006 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correct

That's why teh Orioles picked up Russ Ortiz. No responsibility for the big bucks.

by sdrone on Jul 1, 2006 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ortiz

was given his outright release after the 10 days were up.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 1, 2006 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correct me if I'm wrong

but I think the Angels would be more than happy to eat the rest of his contract if they got something in return.

Look at the options:

Release him, get stuck with his salary, get nothing in return.
Find some sucker to pick up the remaining portion of his salary, get (basically) nothing in return.
Some team claims him on waivers, only on the condition that the Angels pick up his contract, Angels get a decent player in return.

If some team wanted to jump the gun, they'd probably do so under the conditions of option #3.

by Solanus on Jul 3, 2006 6:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats not exactly how it works

I think a team has 10 days after DFAing a player to trade him, release him, or send him to the minors if he clears waivers. Therefore if they trade him before the 10 days are up then the other team would have to take as much of the salary as outlined in the trade. If the another team claims him on waivers then they have to eat the whole salary, but give up nothing in exchange for him. If he is released then we could sign him to the league minimum, but I think he'd rather play in sunny California with the SD Fathers or the LA Dodgers. Also I think he could refuse an assignment to the minors even if he clears waivers and then be released.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 1, 2006 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs