Game 41 Open Thread: May 18, 2006

by lboros on May 18, 2006 9:04 AM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News

now that was a save. isringhausen, so accustomed to pitching out of his own jams, applied the practice in the 9th to clean up someone else's mess. i actually wasn't that surprised; for no reason in particular i was confident that he would come through there. he threw nothing but fastballs and cutters, had good velocity (as high as 93, per espn's gun) and great location. here's his pitching line over the last month:

ip	h	w	k	era	whip	w-l-s
11	5	7	12	1.64	1.091	1-0-9

that outing settles the account izzy has been carrying with mulder since this game, when he blew a save and cost his starter a win. as for mulder, he threw one of his best games as a cardinal, surpassed only by another 1-0 victory (last april vs roger and the astros); damn near outhit the mets all by himself. for the 2d straight game his fastball was lively -- even in the 9th the gun showed him at 88, 89 mph -- and his curveball was sharp, as it has been all season. whereas last year everything he threw seemed to float up there between 82 and 86, this year mulder is actually changing speeds, which enables him to use more of the plate. he's getting more outs on pitches in the strike zone and relying less on slop off the corners and at the ankles (his crutch in 2005). mulder's back appears sound again; i'm starting to gain some confidence in him, too.

in the end, a couple of gappers decided it; rolen's got through to the wall in the 6th, driving home a run; reyes' didn't leading off the 9th, keeping him from scampering to 3d with nobody out. encarnacion showed off his hacky-sack skills on that play -- kicked it directly to edmonds, who relayed the ball back to the infield. . . . . i guess we give the guy credit for getting in front of the ball.

it's official: anthony reyes will start saturday. and all of america will be watching. . . . also official: pujols does not juice. miklasz posted a lengthy segment of albert's unedited remarks at the pressbox. . . . hardball times has win share leaders at the quarter pole . . . .

marquis lima
4-4, 5.33 0-2, 9.31

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Revenge? Oh, that never fades

Lima today should feel the wrath of all those Cardinals who wanted a sweep in the 2004 NLDS. In the grand scheme of things, there have been bigger issues to provoke such revenge. But seldom do they involve scoring a run an inning against a pitcher.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." - Jim Bouton

by WillieMcGeeModelingCompany on May 18, 2006 9:14 AM EDT reply actions

Radar Guns

I know of Tony's history with radar guns in the stadium, and I thought of it last ngiht when I was watching the game on Sports New York (SNY). A lot of the numbers over the last two nights actually seemed a little low to me. I know they are not known for always being accurate, but I wondered if anyone else thought that. Not sure if different networks use their own guns, but Izzy never clocked above 91 (although in lb's post, he did . Wondering if other people thought this too.

by sdelek on May 18, 2006 9:46 AM EDT reply actions

Then again

Didn't people think Busch's gun was relatively high at the beginning of the season?

by sdrone on May 18, 2006 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions

a few mph either way

doesn't change the main point, which is that mulder has a range of speeds this year. he can throw that curveball more than 5 times a game this season, and more important he can get it over for strikes --- and it is about 20 mph slower than his fastball, no matter what gun you are reading the speeds on.

by lboros on May 18, 2006 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions

I missed the game last night...

...as my younger brother had one of his own. Why such a poor offensive performance?

by bgh on May 18, 2006 10:53 AM EDT reply actions

Trachsel had some

serious movement on his pitches. By my count, the Cardinals hit 6 infield popups.

But Trachsel works S-L-O-W. I don't think I could stand to watch a game pitting him against Freddy Garcia, especially if there were a lot of men on base.

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 18, 2006 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Also, our big 3...

Albert: Sore back/shin
Edmonds: Sore shoulder/side
Rolen: Weak shoulder/lower weight

by Hardcore Legend on May 18, 2006 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Marvelous Mulder

There's been a lot of skepticism re: Mulder from regulars on this site, including from me. But you have to admit that the Mulder we saw last night (and the one we've seen for most of this season, when he's healthy) is a damn fine pitcher -- and you can't really fault Jocketty for giving up some good young talent to acquire him. Last night he was dominant against a very, very good Mets lineup. If he keeps pitching like this, he's going to make himself an extremely rich fellow this coming offseason (and maybe even really help us in the postseason - though I still wouldn't mind picking up another high-K starter).

Lboros has noted previously that given the Cards' self-imposed payroll constraints, they will likely have to choose b/w picking up Jed's '07 option or signing Mulder to a long-term deal. I can't believe I'm saying this, but considering their two seasons so far, I'm not sure I wouldn't choose Mulder at this point. (And I love Jim, and would hate to see him finish his career not wearing the Birds on the Bat.) I would be pretty darn happy with this rotation in 2007:

Carp
Mulder
Wainwright
Reyes
(Ponson/Suppan/or whatever Duncan-fixer-upper we manage to sign cheap)

Carp and Mulder's large contracts would be balanced out nicely by the cheap and young Wainwright & Reyes.

Anyway, sorry for the long post but I felt like being provocative this morning!

by DCRedbird on May 18, 2006 11:21 AM EDT reply actions

Is the money from the Nationals sale

gonna come into play this summer? Wasn't it $5m or $8m/team? it makes me wonder if there will be more action than usual at the trading deadline.

by sdrone on May 18, 2006 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions

I don't think people would spend

so much energy worrying about Mulder if we had just one more high-quality starter. And I think either Reyes or Wainwright could be that 3rd guy.

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 18, 2006 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions

And how about Ponson

I'm surprised that Ponson hasn't been receiving more recognition. Hasn't he pitched pretty well? I don't know as much about evaluating pitchers as you guys do, but he seems to be producing well, even though he's not the power pitcher everyone wants (including me.)

by rob is back on May 18, 2006 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Chicago Tribune

Thinks the Cubs may be unlikely to pick up Wood's 13 million dollar option for next year. I am thinking that the more good starters that are on the market the more likely the Cards can keep Mulder. Whereas last year, everyone knew that Burnett was the best pitcher available, a market that includes Mulder, Schmidt, Wood, Zito, and maybe Buehrle (though I doubt they wouldn't pick up his option) may actually drive the contract numbers down a bit. How many teams will really be willing to pay 50-75 million for these guys? Yanks, Mets, Cubs? Based on this I think the Cards have a decent shot at keeping Mulder. Contracts still will likely be in the Burnett range but maybe not five years.
And I don't really buy this, you have to give Carp a new contract. Maybe you give him an extension with big money but I don't agree that you need to pay him more next year then he previously agreed to.
Just random thoughts for the day. I really liked what I saw from Mulder last night. I would like to see him with the Birds on the Bat for another three or four years.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on May 18, 2006 11:27 AM EDT reply actions

I agree to a point

but I do think that teams will be willing to shell out 4/$40m. I think the price will be high either way, ESPECIALLY since most of these guys are well established vets.

by sdrone on May 18, 2006 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions

4/40 for Mulder

would be pretty reasonable, I think. I think he'll make more than that, though.

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 18, 2006 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

I wonder if he would agree to

4/40 if Jocketty offered it right now? I suppose he would probably want to take some offers.
I think that would be a good contract.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on May 18, 2006 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions

4/$40M...

would probably amount to a bargain. A question:

Will Burnett's injury mean teams will be much less likely to go to that fifth year?

Or, will the bidding get out of hand and drive up the length of contracts that are offered?

by bgh on May 18, 2006 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions

ok albert

is now getting druged in the steroid mess, i like what the post had on him
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/5591149A7F22D5EE86257172001FC861 ?OpenDocument

but this story makes me wonder
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-sphow184746050may18,0,2588271.column?coll=ny-sports-pr int

Heres my thing and people can say what they want about cards not getting press, but youd have to be blind to not see that Albert has been overlooked til now. Alot of that was because he always finished second to Bonds. Now Bonds is gone and others are noticing that he is really good. It's funny witht he numbers that he has put up that it takes Bonds sucking for people to really see Albert for Albert. I said all that to say this, I have always been skeptical when he came up. Ok when is this guy gonna cool off...but never has..even when cards have sucked in Post seasons hes been steady(or better than rest) SO I guess if your just noticing Albert you go..Is he juicing? But his numbers have not changed drastically, and neither has his head size.

by punchinjudy on May 18, 2006 11:43 AM EDT reply actions

Albert has not been

"overlooked" at all. I live on the East Coast and I have been pleasantly surprised at the press he's gotten for the past several years. (And being a native St. Louisan, yes, I am perpetually on the lookout for "bias" against the Midwest.) Does he get less than Bonds or the Yankee/Red Sox nexus? Yes, but that's not the same as being "overlooked." Look, Albert IS a big deal. But so is Bonds, and so are the Yankees and Red Sox. It's a large world.

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 18, 2006 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions

your

right overlooked was a little strong, my point is that its funny to see all the current press for albert. As card fans I think you have seen him perform and now hes getting press like hey this guys good. Bonds being so good had alot to do with it, I watch sportscenter and some of the stuff and its like its just clicking with people...just my opinion

and does anyone else get anoyed at orel always pointing out how young Yadi is? I have seen 2 card games Orel has done..I love the guy but dont rip on Yadis D..bat maybe D um no.

by punchinjudy on May 18, 2006 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Buster Olney

Also discussed it today. He says there is no reason to think Pujols is using. He also makes some interesting comments about if the "esteemed Bernie Miklasz" said he thought Pujols was clean, then Buster would believe him.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster#20060518

Why all the love for Bernie? He is okay, not just a hometown schill, but if you want to say a St. Louis sportswriter is esteemed, lets talk about Rick Hummel.

Speaking of St. Louis press, I was shocked to see Bryan Burwell on sportscenter last weekend.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on May 18, 2006 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Lucky

St. Louisian's are lucky to have a guy like Bernie. He is a bigtime columnist in a medium level market. He is very, very well respected on all fronts.

A lot of class without a lot of the garbage included, trash talk, etc.

to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

by beanocook on May 18, 2006 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions

That's typical

of the New York press corps. I'm just surprised it was in the Post..

by cardsrul on May 18, 2006 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions

i am so

going to see reyes pitch saturday.

by tnek5 on May 18, 2006 11:53 AM EDT reply actions

You and me...

both.

by bgh on May 18, 2006 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Lima certainly is a

handsome devil. A good looking guy such as he deserves such a beautiful wife. Thanks for the link on yesterday's thread.

I will continue these tactics as long as they are successful...

by BozCardsFanSF on May 18, 2006 12:15 PM EDT reply actions

I think the opposing starters are onto your tricks

which is why they have started wearing fake blond braids. I am so glad you didn't fall for Jose Lima's dirty tricks.

What a crafty guy trying to make himself look silly!

by Schnake on May 18, 2006 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Mulder vs. Haren

Im one of the few that STILL likes the Mulder deal and think it was a good one... that being said here are the splits for Mulder and Haren this year...

Mulder
5-1 3.69 ERA .266 BAA 8 HR Against

Haren
3-3 4.40 ERA .259 BAA 11 HR Against

Here's another little stat. We all know that the 4 runs against stat is a big one for the Cardinals. Haren has given up 4 runs or more in 50% (4 out of 8) of his starts. Which would not bode well for the Cardinals this year. On the other hand, Mulder has only given up more than 4 runs in 22% of his starts (2 out of 9). Sure Haren strikes out more people but I dont really care, Mulder gets more ground balls and keeps the ball in the park more. Oh yeah... there's that guy Barton... here are his splits in AAA this year.

Barton
.273 BA 2 HR 19 RBI .424 SLG

...all in 132 at bats. Oh yeah by the way he's playing 1st base not catcher. Don't we have a pretty good 1st baseman already? The numbers speak for themselves, we are getting the better end of this deal.

by BigMac545 on May 18, 2006 12:23 PM EDT reply actions

I think Haren's numbers are elevated because

of the DH. A couple more dominant games like last night would close the grumblings on Mulder for good.

oh, and a World Series MVP. that would help also.

by Schnake on May 18, 2006 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions

I'll still take Haren

43-7 K-to-BB ratio so far in '06 is pretty attractive...

Got knocked around a little in first two starts, but in last seven starts he's got a 3.37 ERA...

Rough start last year, too, before finishing strong... just 2-7 with a 4.34 ERA through May, then 12-5, 3.46 the rest of the way....

by salvomania on May 18, 2006 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions

He'll have a good career.

It was a quality for quality trade.

by Schnake on May 18, 2006 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Salvomania...

I'm Surprised by your Strike out comment from above... sounds like something a Kerry Wood Worshiping Cubs fan would say. I'll counted your arguement with a stat that I find to be more important when talking about Pitchers, and that is Groundball of Flyout ratio (getting groundballs is far more important that getting strikeouts). Mulder's ratio is 2.76 (pretty impressive) Haren's in an ordinary, if not bad, 1.20. Ill take Mulder and his groundballs and his 3 less HRs in one more start everday over Haren and his flyball/strikeout combination.

by BigMac545 on May 18, 2006 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions

GB rate

is not as important when you're striking guys out and you have control. Dan Haren last year walked only 2.2 per 9ip---half as many as Kerry Wood over his career---and is walking less than a batter per start in 2006. That's a completely different type of pitcher than Wood, one who can go longer in games by not running up high pitch counts by the 5th inning.

I'd go so far as to say that, if you DO have a middling K rate---like Mulder, like Suppan, like Marquis, like Ponson---you can ONLY be successful if you have a high GB/FB ratio.

My point about Haren's Ks (and more specifically, the 6-to-1 K-walk ratio) is that it is one of the best predictors of success going forward---much better than GB rate, which tends to fluctuate more than K rate.

A guy who strikes out a runner with one out and a man on a 3rd will be a lot more successful, over time, than a guy who yields a ground ball with one out and a man on third.

by salvomania on May 19, 2006 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions

so what you're proposing is

(GO + K)/FO as a metric? That actually does sound a little more useful.

by Valatan on May 19, 2006 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

How about...

(GO+K)/ (FO x WHIP)

Now THAT's a METRIC!!!

by salvomania on May 20, 2006 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Pujols resting today?

I think the odds are probably good that he's a scratch today. Have they posted lineups yet?

by cmat on May 18, 2006 12:24 PM EDT reply actions

Lineups - Pujols gets the day off

cmat's hunch is correct.

Would be nice to see Eck get a day off sometime soon too (he's played every game) -- let Luna give him a little rest....

Reyes ss
Valentin 2b
Beltran cf
Delgado 1b
Wright 3b
Floyd lf
Castro c
Chavez rf
Lima p

Eckstein ss
Rodriguez lf
Rolen 3b
Edmonds cf
Spiezio 1b
Encarnacion rf
Bennett c
Miles 2b
Marquis p

by DCRedbird on May 18, 2006 12:31 PM EDT reply actions

Don't remember Bennet ever catching Marquis

I wonder what's up.

by Schnake on May 18, 2006 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I think...

Bennett caught Marquis' last start as well. No idea what that means, though.

by six on May 18, 2006 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm pretty sure

bennet caught Marquis in the game at Minute maid, too

by Valatan on May 18, 2006 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

actually

Bennett caught Jason's last game, the 1-run, 3-hit outing against AZ.

by DCRedbird on May 18, 2006 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Off topic and a faint thought

But what about the possibility of Ichiro coming to the Cards? He has in the past voiced displeasure with the Mariners non-competitiveness. If they stay mired in mediocrity, while seemingly unlikely, he could be on the block if he decides to force his way out. Also I seem to remember in some article Scott Spezio making a mention of disfuntion in the Mariners organization; perhaps Ichiro's over it. Anyway just a thought, he's not a power hitter but he's damn good. Imagine Ichiro leading off and Eck Batting 2nd. Or vice versa. Also, I've fantasized in the past about Kerry Wood coming to the Cards. Even though he has been a disliked figure for throwing at our players, and he's oft-injured, I can imagine Duncan getting a hold of him and taking him to the next level with mechanics and preparation, and he defintely is a dominant strikeout pitcher we want in the playoffs. Ok, enough of my musings, whatdya think?

by mdarshan on May 18, 2006 12:38 PM EDT reply actions

addendum

"while seemingly unlikely" refers to Ichiro being traded, not the Mariners staying mediocre, because they probably will.

by mdarshan on May 18, 2006 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions

i asked SB Nation's mariners guy

about ichiro during the off-season, when his grumblings first surfaced. he said the team's marketing and identify are built around ichiro; he's worth millions to the mariners in terms of merchandising etc in the very lucrative japanese market. so he's not just a ballplayer, he's a business asset.

that doesn't mean it's impossible, but if he were ever traded i have to think it would cost a whole bunch. he's their albert. i'm not even sure reyes wainwright and rasmus would be enough.

by lboros on May 18, 2006 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Some talk last week on Baseball Tonight about this

They concluded he will not be traded. Remember that the owners of the Mariners are Japanese. Ichiro will stay in Seattle (at least until his contract is up, which I don't know when that is).

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on May 18, 2006 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah...

Nintendo's not in the habit of making bad business deals. They'll keep Ichiro locked up until he's no longer an asset.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on May 18, 2006 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions

So Japanese owners don't trade players?

How does their nationality matter?

by rob is back on May 18, 2006 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions

The implication is

That Nintendo understands they have a huge asset to leverage the Japanese market so why would they give that up. Without Ichiro, I can't imagine the Mariners have any relevance in Japan.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on May 18, 2006 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions

So Nintendo owns the Mariners?

Thanks for the insight!

by rob is back on May 18, 2006 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Technically...

Nintendo of America owns the Mariners, with Howard Lincoln (Mariners CEO and NoA CEO) reporting to Nintendo of Japan's chairman.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on May 18, 2006 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Ditto....

Seattle has a huge Asian community and Ichiro is a god there. Also, the Mariners have a lucatrive deal to broadcast their games in Japan. Reason, Ichiro.

by Brock20 on May 18, 2006 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Their new catcher...

Johjima is helping too, as is Seattle's reputation as a Japan-like vacation spot for Japanese folks who want to leave the country.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on May 18, 2006 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions

that

guy has an arm, saw him throw out a runner when I went to the A's M's game..the second baseman was waiting on the runner...like ok come one dont be afraid...they say his communication with pitchers was an issue early

by punchinjudy on May 19, 2006 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Strike Zone

Man the strike zone is huge. He is getting both sides of the plate.

by DimitroffVodka on May 18, 2006 1:20 PM EDT reply actions

All right Scotty!

Nice to see him batting third

by cmat on May 18, 2006 1:22 PM EDT reply actions

if

Juan pops out to an infielder again I might have to beat him with his own bat.I have really just given up on the guy.I'm all for giving it time but almost 2 months and no production at all. The guy either strikes out or pops out he reminds me of willie may-hays from Major League.

by sportsmanspark78 on May 18, 2006 1:34 PM EDT reply actions

Willie Mays-Hayes

at least was a terror on the basepaths.

by Schnake on May 18, 2006 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Actually he reminds me of

Bobby Bonds in his short, unhappy stay with the Cards at the end of his career.

Didn't hustle, bad average, a ton of K's and booed by the St. Louis faithful.

by BozCardsFanSF on May 18, 2006 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

No outfield outs

for either team so far, and only one strikeout.

The wind must be blowing straight down.

by isaac on May 18, 2006 1:46 PM EDT reply actions

And Mighty Mouse comes through!

by Valatan on May 18, 2006 1:52 PM EDT reply actions

What just happened?

"John Rodriguez reaches on throwing error by first baseman carlos delgado"

sounds bizarre

by Valatan on May 18, 2006 1:57 PM EDT reply actions

Odd to see a guy

like Endy Chavez in an otherwise good-hitting lineup. Back when Chavez played for the Nationals, DC fans called him "Inning-Endy Chavez."

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 18, 2006 2:05 PM EDT reply actions

three groundballs that inning

marquis' groundout-flyout through the 1st four innings was only 3-7 . . . he musta switched to the sinker last inning.

or started throwing it properly

by lboros on May 18, 2006 2:34 PM EDT reply actions

by the way

he only has made the mets swing and miss twice in this game --- and one of those was the pitcher. you may recall had got zero swing-throughs in his last start

by lboros on May 18, 2006 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Encarnacion BA:K/Rate

Juan Encarnacion's batting average (after two hitless ABs today) is .224. His strikeout rate (after two K-less ABs today) is .189. (I chose to display it in the same fashion as batting average, which translates to 18.9%.) After seeing this, I became curious as to what it would take for him to have a batting average equal to his strike out rate.

He currently has 32 hits on the season. He currently has 27 strike outs on the season. He has 3 BB and 3 HBP (which means that it is just as likely he will take four pitches out of the strike zone in an at-bat as it is that a pitcher will hit him with a pitch...astounding). He has 143 ABs through 2 ABs this game.

So, if Juan has five more strike outs without a hit, he will have struck out the same number of times that he has gotten a base hit. I find this to be incredible.

by bgh on May 18, 2006 2:40 PM EDT reply actions

hershiser

Last night Orel Hershiser said Juan should basically start over on his swing--change his whole stance. He said nobody could consistently hit with a hole up and in and a hole down and away generated by the way he held his bat.

I thought it was pretty convincing analysis, especially for a pitcher.

by isaac on May 18, 2006 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Pitchers...

Pitchers seem to know hitters better than hitters do because they are thinking of how to get them out.

I'm a pretty patient fan, but Juan has about 3 more games to show me anything before he gets the Tino treatment.

A diamond is just a lump of coal that performed well under pressure

by joker24 on May 18, 2006 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions

not a bad idea

i haven't given up on enc yet.. but i have disliked his stance since the moment i saw it. it just looks funky.

The St. Louis Cardinals: No Curses, No Excuses, Just Wins

by amettrick on May 18, 2006 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions

ugh

Runners on 2nd and 3rd, 2 out, Chad Bradford just in for Lima, and what does Encarnacion do? Hacks at the first pitch and grounds out, of course! I can't believe we gave this guy a 3-year deal.

by DCRedbird on May 18, 2006 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Bradford

Kills RH hitters. Juan isn't the first guy to get out against him.

to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

by beanocook on May 18, 2006 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions

no question, Bradford's nasty

but why isn't Enc even just trying to see a few pitches there? Bradford just came in the game. Make him throw a strike, don't just hack at the first pitch you see unless he really grooves one. Especially when the new pitcher's got a strange delivery like that -- why not try to see a pitch or two?

Guess I'm just frustrated w/our $15 million "core guy" in RF...

by DCRedbird on May 18, 2006 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

add popouts to strikeouts

and his percentage of futile at bats will easily exceed his OBP.

8/13/79- Lou Brock 3000 hits

by lb3000 on May 18, 2006 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Addendum to Juan's BA to K AVG

I thought that I'd put together some other high strikeout rate players' comparisons to Juan, including OBP. I've changed K/Rate to K AVG to create a different statistical label than what we use for pitchers. If someone has already done this, let me know, so I can use a more official term.

Adam Dunn
141 AB/31 H/51 SO/37 BB/13 HR/31 R

K AVG: .362
B AVG: .220
OBP: .381

Wily Mo Pena
90 AB/29 H/28 SO/9 BB/4 HR/10 R

K AVG: .311
B AVG: .322
OBP: .375

Jimmy Edmonds

122 AB/32 H/32 SO/21 BB/5 HR/20 R

K AVG: .262
B AVG: .262
OBP: .361

Jeff Francoeur

171 AB/44 H/30 SO/1 BB/8 HR/20 R

K AVG: .175
B AVG: .257
OBP: .269

by bgh on May 18, 2006 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Actually, quite common.

There are lots of guys who have struck out in excess of 150 times in a year, including some of the best sluggers ever, often only getting 150-180 hits in a season.

It's not Juan's K's that are killing us, it's the lack of anything ELSE.

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 18, 2006 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Sorry...

I had my entry open and should have posted it after yours.

I agree that high K averages aren't bad, but they are usually accompanied by high power numbers and high RBI numbers. Also, a lot of those types of players get on base at a decent clip as well. Otherwise, that person is pretty worthless...like Juan Encarnacion so far this season.

(For the record, I do think that he'll wind up at about a .260 BA for the season, accompanied by an awful OBP.)

by bgh on May 18, 2006 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Here he is...

Stepping into the batter's box at 0-for-3 on the day, fresh off a three-year $15M deal with the St. Louis Cardinals, Juan Encarnacion!!!!

by bgh on May 18, 2006 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions

About another month

of this and I break out my nickname for him, "Sunk Cost."

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 18, 2006 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions

You get what you pay for...

...then again, maybe not. Who did they think they were kidding when they tried to play this career journeyman of average talent as a "core" player? It actually bothers me that I've come to enjoy watching Encarnacion flounder just to shove it back in their face that this joker is no "core" talent. He's a bench talent. A platoon player at best. Which leads me to: When is the left-handed hitting Bigbie going to start getting some of JuanE's at bats against right-handed pitching, where JuanE is still hovering around Mendoza territory?! Bigbie's not going to get any better sitting on the bench and getting maybe one or two at-bats a week in a pinch-hitting role. And he CAN'T POSSIBLY be that much worse defensively or any worse at the plate than Encarnacion vs. right-handers!

Baily

by Baily on May 18, 2006 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah

the guys sucks.i say we trade him now before he ends up like Tina.

by sportsmanspark78 on May 19, 2006 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions

Come on, be fair to him

As of yesteday, he's got as many RBI as Spiezio.

JuanE Speez

games: 39 30

ab: 145 61

rbi: 14 14

bb: 3 9

Maybe we have a new lf'er. Move taguigez to rf and play speez in left?

by sdesserman on May 19, 2006 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Nats have hung 4 on Wood

All on HRs

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on May 18, 2006 3:00 PM EDT reply actions

Marquis....

earlier they said that Marquis has 22 Ks, to 22 BBs. That's a command problem that needs to be addressed.

by Brock20 on May 18, 2006 3:36 PM EDT reply actions

22 K to 23 BB...

coming into today. 25 BB to 23 K after today, if I'm not mistaken.

by bgh on May 18, 2006 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Either way....

ugly.

by Brock20 on May 18, 2006 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

i'd rather see

wainwright pitch the 9th here than izzy. adam hasn't pitched since his rough outing sunday against the dbacks.

by lboros on May 18, 2006 3:44 PM EDT reply actions

yeah, I'm surprised too

that LaRussa would use Izzy again in an early daytime game after he pitched last night

by DCRedbird on May 18, 2006 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions

It's a save situation ....

... consequently, TLR reflexively turns to his closer. Can you think of any time he's put anyone else on the mound with a chance to get a save, absent special circumstances like Izzy having pitched the last three games? I can't.

One wonders what would happen if they changed the save rule so that, say, you had to come in with a lead of two runs or less (rather than three). Would TLR change, too?

I agree. Would be nice to see Wainwright out there now.

DCGreg

by DCGreg on May 18, 2006 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Save Izzy....

and bring Wainwright in makes the most logical sense, but Tony is probably trying to wrap this series up against a contender. Win today and worry about tomorrow later.

Also, we have to play the Royals for three games. Those will hopefully NOT be save situations.

I'd also consider Thompson.

by Brock20 on May 18, 2006 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't like Babyface...

in save situations, at least not right now. He doesn't strike me as having the closer's killer instinct, but I could see him growing into it eventually.

He actually reminds me a bit of Mike Timlin, at least when it comes to being comfortable with different roles. He doesn't quite have Timlin's stuff, though.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on May 18, 2006 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions

We won the series...

Now we have beaten a real contender. Let's everyone relax and enjoy the moment. Three against the Royals right? That should be easy.

Did anyone see the Buddy Bell quote about having to play half their early games against the White Sox and the Indians?

"I'm looking forward to see how much we suck against the rest of the league."

That's the spirit!

by Brock20 on May 18, 2006 3:55 PM EDT reply actions

he didn't really

say that (or the equivalent) . . . . did he?

i would feel sorry for sanders and grud'k, but they went there by choice

by lboros on May 18, 2006 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions

apparently so

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=dreamweekmay&prov=tsn&type=lgns

"Believe me, we're eager to see how much we suck against the rest of the league, too."

DCGreg

by DCGreg on May 18, 2006 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions

It's a joke...

Look at the other stuff on the page. Dusty Baker didn't say that you can't find a pulse on Jacque Jones.

by sdelek on May 18, 2006 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm pretty sure

those quotes are fake. I've seen other installments of that column, and many of the quotes are clearly made up (I'd like to think this one is clearly fake too, but it is the Royals...).

by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2006 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

The bottom entry in that column:

"Reggie Sanders and Mark Grudzielanek are thrilled to play before a packed house of Cardinals fans again. It's too bad this game is in Kansas City."

by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2006 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions

a joke

yes, it's clearly a joke.

DCGreg

by DCGreg on May 18, 2006 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions

funny

but cruel

by lboros on May 18, 2006 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Completely off topic, but

How about the job Jim Leyland is doing in Detroit? They put together a good core of young players and a few vets like I Rod and Kenny Rogers, but WOW, what a difference so far year over year.

Good for him. I always liked him in Pittsburgh, as I followed Van Slyke and Spanky Lavalliere after their departures.

by BozCardsFanSF on May 18, 2006 6:32 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Tigers

I follow them a bit because I've known Brandon Inge since he was about 6 years old. His mom used to play softball for me when I was coaching in the local rec leagues. It makes me proud to see a local kid, especially one that I know, do so well.

by cardsrul on May 18, 2006 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Nice work

today against a true contender--even without El Hombre. Marquis looked decent (tho his strike/ball count was pretty bad). Whoa--just heard that the Flubbies have re-acquired Tony Womack. Now there's a dangerous bat to spark a listless lineup :-) Things just get curiouser and curiouser up north.

by rockin redbird on May 18, 2006 6:38 PM EDT reply actions

Another

addition to the recent barrage of articles about El Hombre. (Sorry if this is old news; I haven't seen it posted here yet.)

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AqdLGp17DuMJHMmor7HgB0I5nYcB?slug=cantgetnosatisfaction&pr ov=tsn&type=lgns

by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2006 7:13 PM EDT reply actions

thanks

for posting that..great article

by punchinjudy on May 19, 2006 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Pujols Homer Analysis

This is pretty cool analysis of Pu's homers
http://espn.go.com/mlb/pdf/Pujols_Analysis.pdf
He really has no holes in his swing.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on May 18, 2006 8:36 PM EDT reply actions

nice link

Things that surprised me:

-he's hit only 8/19 on 2 strikes, but it seems like more than that to me. His plate discipline is awesome this year

-I haven't seen any of the first-pitch home runs, so I didn't think there were any. Guess I was wrong. I bet he hits a lot more soon, since it seems like he is taking a ton of first-pitch strikes

-has he really only hit two home runs on balls "down the middle" this year?

by SleepyCA on May 18, 2006 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Probably

reflects how carefully he is being pitched?

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on May 18, 2006 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions

About down the middle...

...Yes, it's true. There have been ALOT of pitches that you expect most hitters to crush served up fat down the middle and El Hombre fouls them back to the screen. Yet, he'll get a ball so far inside it should hit him, and he hooks it into the Casino Queen Party Deck.

by Hardcore Legend on May 18, 2006 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions