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eaton at his own game

lotta talk lately about adam eaton --- the more so after word got out that the cardinals met with eaton's agent. having looked more closely at his career stats, i'm less inclined to view him as a priority target. here's my chief complaint about him: his stats appear to be heavily ballpark-influenced. until 2006, he pitched his home games in two of the pitcher-friendliest ballparks in baseball --- qualcomm (nee jack murphy stadium) and the pads' current home, petco. both have park factors of about 91, meaning they depress offense by about 10 percent. (a 100 park factor is neutral; anything over 100 is a hitter's park.) because of that, eaton's seemingly decent era marks aren't very impressive; once you adjust for ballpark, eaton has beaten the league average in era only once in his career --- in 2000, his rookie season.

his career splits make plain the home-field advantage:

era ip h bb so bb/9 k/9 hr/9 2b/9
sd parks 4.15 423.1 420 128 358 2.7 7.6 1.1 2.1
all other 4.65 437 445 178 308 3.7 6.3 1.4 1.8

note the differential in bb/9 --- eaton pitches far less aggressively away from the generously proportioned san diego parks. note also that, away from sd, his hr rate increases in the same proportion as his doubles rate decreases. that might help explain why he's more of a nibbler away from san diego: a certain number of flyballs that go for doubles in san diego get out of the ballpark almost everywhere else. with less margin for error, eaton pitches more tentatively; the strikeouts go down, the walks go up, and the runs score more freely.

this doesn't mean he's a lost cause; he still has two things going for him, viz. a high strikeout rate (even away from san diego) and an ability to pitch down in the zone. under duncan, he just might blossom. but i'm less apt to view eaton as a bargain than i was up to now --- particularly in light of rosenthal's report that he might command a four-year contract. pecota doesn't think much of him, and his comparables are nothing special; there's a distinct chance he could go the way of brett tomko, another talented pitcher the cards grabbed at about the same career juncture as eaton. compare eaton's to date vs tomko's through 2002, when the cards acquired him:

w-l era ip h bb so bb/9 k/9 hr/9 age
eaton 54-45 4.40 861 865 306 666 3.2 7.0 1.2 29
tomko
(thru 2002)
49-42 4.46 840 825 286 596 3.1 6.4 1.3 29

tomko didn't take the next step; in the four years since then, he has gone 40-38 with a 4.63 era. if you're paying $5.5m a year for that production, you're not thrilled but you can live with it; if you're paying $8m a year, you're pissed off. the way the market is going, eaton's labor will likely cost about $8m a year for the next four years. he might succeed where tomko failed, put things together and have a string of good years; i'd let some other team take that chance.

also of note today: miklasz reports --- straight from dewitt --- that the cards' payroll will likely increase into the $100m range. that's welcome news, particularly in view of the steep prices for pitching. given the extra margin, i gotta ask: why don't the cards simply pick out the guy at the top of their board and go sign him? leave zito and schmidt out of the equation; bidding wars might erupt over those guys, because there is such a small pool of front-end pitchers available. but below them, you've got maybe 8 or 10 pitchers --- the group including padilla, meche, lilly, eaton, supps, weaver, wolf, woody williams --- who are of roughly equal value. if you put in a bold offer --- say, $5 or $6 million (over the life of the deal) beyond what other teams are discussing --- maybe the competing suitors drop out of the bidding and turn to their next option, hoping to get a better bargain. as the field narrows, the urgency mounts to sign somebody before the shelves are empty --- and that's when you can end up paying a lot for a player you don't really want. that's exactly how st louis wound up with that sh*tty braden looper contract last winter; he was the last proven reliever out there, and when the phillies bid him up jocketty had little choice but to counter. walter likes to wait out the market, but with 3 empty slots in the rotation he can't afford to bide time this year --- not unless he's content to sign the 3 pitchers at the bottom of everyone's list. he's got the cash; he should start throwing it around, at whatever pitcher he and his scouts like the most. they might overpay, but at least they'll overpay for a player they actually want.

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Just my opinion
The reason why the mid market guys like Suppan, Meche and Weaver wont be signed before Zito and Schmidt is because they will let the market play out and get a fairly reasonable salary for their standards. It happens every year and guys like Weaver last year will get more than they are worth. I suspect Zito or Schmidt to go before the mid tier guys. On the other hand guys like Eaton and Marquis will sign as soon as they get an offer around what they are looking for.

by Mugrad on Nov 16, 2006 9:14 AM EST reply actions  

in other words
guys like Zito and Schmidt are considered the gold standard this year and will set the prices up starting from the top.

Signing usually happen like this

low salary guys
high salary (gold standard for that year)
mid range market guys

Though there are some outlying factors with every signing that could throw that off.

by Mugrad on Nov 16, 2006 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

in general you're right
but that's not how it always goes. last winter the athletics jumped in very early and signed esteban loaiza, a mid-rotation guy. three-year contract, turned out to be a bargain. another mid-range guy, paul byrd, also was signed early by cleveland, also to a short contract (2 years plus option). only after those signings did the gold-standard guy, aj burnett, ink his deal --- and then the other dominoes (millwood, morris, washburn, etc.) all fell, for increasingly high dollar amounts.

by lboros on Nov 16, 2006 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

another point
I am also curious to see if the change in the compensation rules for free agents has an effect.  In the past, there was some incentive to wait to see whether a player would be offered arbitration, as if you signed the player before the deadline, the former team would automatically offer arbitration knowing that the player would have to decline, and the signing team would therefore lose a high (1st or second) round draft pick in order to sign the free agent. This year, at least for type B players, the former team gets a supplemental pick, and the signing team loses nothing, meaning that there's less incentive to wait on signing those guys.

by Silent George on Nov 16, 2006 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Go get Ted Lilly
I agree with you LB and I would love for them to decide right now that Lilly is that mid tier guy that they want and put a certain amount out there to get him early. I would take a little of the pressure off since you pretty much know what you're going to get with him and then they can focus on playing the games for the rest.

by Pujols4Pres on Nov 16, 2006 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

If they got $100 Million
I think it is very important that Cardinals need to decide if they are going to try to retain the services of Suppan or Weaver. They have a higher probability of getting some kind of discount, especially for Weaver. The Market seems kind of high so we HAVE to dictate it by starting off getting some kind of discount from Weaver, imo. Than we have more bargaining power. All we have to do is than match Weavers contracts plus $3 million to sign another comparable 2nd Tier free agent. That would leave with us 4 dependable starters and allow us to do our favorite past time of dumper diving.

I think Lily is our best shot cause we need a lefty in our rotation.

by DimitroffVodka on Nov 16, 2006 9:16 AM EST reply actions  

Weaver
Maybe I am the only one but I am still not convinced Jeff Weaver is the answer.  He was just so bad before he got here last year and even when he first got here.  I would feel a lot more comfortable looking at other options.
Cards in 5

by cardfan2 on Nov 16, 2006 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Weaver
does seem a likely opportunity for a bargain...
Except for one fact  - agent=Boras.  That is a large, prohibitive factor.

Got me wondering... Have the Cards ever signed a Boras-represented FA?

by _pistol_ on Nov 16, 2006 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Boras Clients
These names come to mind: JD Drew, Julian Tavarez, Rick Ankiel, Chad Hutchinson...I know there are others, also. (That list makes you think twice about signing one, doesn't it?)
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Nov 16, 2006 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree
I don't know why everyone is so sold on Weaver.  He's a league average kind of guy, IMO.

by Toddius396 on Nov 16, 2006 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Dont forget about Mark Buehrle
It is important that we sign someone to a 1 year deal so there will be room to go after Mark Buehrle next season.  Carp and Reyes will be back in '08 so we really only need to fill 2 spots with multi-year deals.  It would be alright to get one lefty now (Lily or Wolf) and then have two leftys in our rotation if we get Buehrle. Then we will need to sign a righthander for the #4 spot (Suppan, Weaver, Meche, Eaton, Batista).  If we are going to leave Wainright in the bullpen then we could just sign Woody Williams to a one year deal and keep a rotation seat warm for Buehrle next year.

Opening day payroll will probably be around 95MM because Walt will leave some budget room to work with for mid-season trades.  With that kind of money to burn we should be able to pay a quality second baseman like Belliard and have enough money left to secure a great 4th outfielder like Jay Payton.

I trust Walt with all these decision and I am confident that he will put together a club that will get us back into the "crap shoot" next season.

2006 Cardinals- An underdog story

by Born in 82 on Nov 16, 2006 9:31 AM EST reply actions  

Miklasz said that the payroll for
next season will be in the 100-105 mil

by Mugrad on Nov 16, 2006 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Quality?
I'm not sure I like seeing "quality second baseman" and "Belliard" in the same sentence.

Sure, he was a little better than Miles at times, but c'mon... I wasn't all that impressed.

by sgfcards on Nov 16, 2006 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Really?...
then you were not watching the same guy I was turning double plays that were fantastic...that guy is a Hell of a defensive 2nd baseman.

by Timbo02 on Nov 16, 2006 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm with you.
I was plesantly surprised at Belly's defense and I think he will do a little better offensively next year. I would like to see him back. If for no other reason than to be a short right fielder in front of Juan.

by stl4all on Nov 16, 2006 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm reserving judgment on Buerhle
until the All Star break in 07.  He was looking awfully worn out at the end of this year.

by sdrone on Nov 16, 2006 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Waiting out
Buerhle would be a monumental mistake. I don't care what he's said in the past, there is no guarantee, none, that he will actually sign with the Cardinals.

by cardsrul on Nov 16, 2006 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Pitching
After listening to Jocketty, Mozelak, and LaRussa...they never really say anything, but I try to pick out the clues, It sounds like they are trying to trade for pitching. After listening to them, this could be our rotation.

Carpenter
Trade Pitcher (Clement, Lopez, Benson...etc)
Reyes
Low Level FA (Wells, Ortiz, other 4-6MM pitcher)
Hancock (Thompson, Narveson)

Mozelak mentioned Hancock specifically in a recent interview as a guy who would be a fallback if they can't acquire enough pitching. He also stated that Suppan is likely to get 10MM per year or more and Weaver a little less than Suppan...which means they are likely not going to be Cardinals next year. Boras clients (Weaver) tend to sign very late. He likes to play the desperate teams against each other to extract the highest price.

Both Jocketty and Mozelak have been using the word "acquire" when talking about pitching and "sign" when talking about hitting.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Nov 16, 2006 9:36 AM EST reply actions  

Excellent post...
Astute, and a very realistic take. Indicitive of the quality of readers/posters on this blog. Historically, I can't remember Walt Jocketty making an agressive FA signing early and setting the market. His MO seems to be to find a way to gain some leverage in trades and "buy low".

Whatever he does, I certainly hope we don't actually end up with Benson or Lopez. Clement might be passable. But I think we're going to need a more consistent pitcher as our #2.

by airhad on Nov 16, 2006 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I Agree
That also allows the team to consider Mulder (if his asking price is reasonable).

by jimstllax on Nov 16, 2006 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

it'd be interesting
to see a study comparing free-agent contracts signed at the beginning of the cycle with those signed at the end. I have the same sense you do, Larry, that teams get better deals early on -- at least in years when salaries are soaring (as they seem to be this year).

by DCGreg on Nov 16, 2006 10:03 AM EST reply actions  

The Market Never Goes Down
There is one part of Jocketty's style that never made sense to me--his refusal to negotiate in-season.  The passage of time only inflates value, especially for pitchers.  And, once a pitcher hits the open market, with competitors vying for services, it goes up even more.  If the Cardinals were really interested in Suppan, the time to sign him was in June or July.  Not November or December.

Even in June-July, before he really took off on his post-All Star streak, Suppan was likely to command a $5-7M a year deal, based on his past salary and his career performance.  His price has essentially doubled in a few months, and probably he will get a 3-4 year deal instead of 2 with an option, which is the most he could have expected at the time.

"Waiting," with respect to your own free agents, is a startegy that almost guarantees their departure.  

by blove121 on Nov 16, 2006 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Aren't you glad
he didn't resign Mulder or Marquis "in season" last year.  At the beginning of the year, Mulder may have gotten a pretty good deal for himself.  Suppan would have been the only smart signing for value.  I think he did the right thing - he wanted to see who he wanted to keep with the club.  If Carp was going to be a free agent, you can bet they would have negotiated.

by Toddius396 on Nov 16, 2006 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

yikes
and to think Marquis actually led the league in wins for awhile, so... yikes.

by madding on Nov 16, 2006 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I've posted this before
Explain to me why this isn't valid...

"Eaton Vs. Kip Wells...

I'm just saying...

Adam Eaton
K/9     BB/9     HR/9     GB/FB  IP/YR*
6.96    3.20     1.17     1.04   122.0

Kip Wells
K/9     BB/9     HR/9     GB/FB  IP/YR*
6.55    4.09     1.02     1.62   152.0

*average of last 5 seasons.

Eaton get's more K's and walks fewer, but is more prone to the flyball, and as a result has a harder time keeping the ball in the park.

Overall I think they're each a better match for the Cardinals than Meche is (considering both dollars and predictable performance).  I can see both being servicable options for the 4th/5th slot in the rotation.  Overall I think the Cardinals tend to side with groundball pitchers more (Wells) .  And although Eaton stikes out more and walks fewer than wells, he gives up more long balls.

Both would be OK, neither would be great.  The biggest argument that could be made against either is that neither one truly posesses a durable arm... something the Cardinals tend to value.

Is this as good as it gets?

I think a trade is in order this year, I don't know how, but these FA options are none too enticing."

and Kip Wells has beaten league ERA twice.  Both in a Pittsburgh park with a park factor of 1.008, so no advantage to the pitcher.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Nov 16, 2006 10:08 AM EST reply actions  

the 5-year arc
is misleading, imho, because wells' only good years in that span were 2002 and 2003 --- that's a long time ago. he's been a bad pitcher for the last three years. increasingly bad, in fact --- era has increased from 4.55 to 5.90 to 6.55 in the last three seasons.

his line from 2004-06 is:

w-l 15-30
era 5.06
bb/9 4.5
h/9 9.7
k/9 6.6

that's covering three seasons and 365 innings; pretty decent sample size.

i can imagine this guy as a good back-end option if he'd sign a short contract with a low base and incentives --- a la carpenter. but he'd be risky to build around.

by lboros on Nov 16, 2006 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

LB, would you do a revised 2007 roster matrix?
Since we know the probable payroll level for next year, could you complete a new roster matrix taking into account the new $100-$105mil ceiling, and the FA moves that have been made so far?  It's always fun reading everyones 25 man rosters, but I like how you show the relative information and break down the payroll.  

by SethWestern on Nov 16, 2006 10:12 AM EST reply actions  

i will try to do that
this afternoon; might have to wait until tomorrow

by lboros on Nov 16, 2006 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

This off season is starting
to make me nervous.  For all the great things Jocketty has done, the one flaw in his game is signing free agents.  He has done well with the low-end guys (Spezio, Eckstein, etc.) but not so well with the mid-range (Looper, Encarnacion, Martinez, etc.).  I can't remember us winning a bidding war for premium guys either.  I think the price of starting pitching is making the decision on moving Wainwright to the rotation easier.  You're right Larry, pick out your one starter that you like and sign him even if it takes a little more in money and years.  Also, make sure Carpenter is on a secluded island all winter and does not see the going rate!  Let's hope by 2008 that some of our minor league arms are ready for the majors.

by lefty fan on Nov 16, 2006 10:20 AM EST reply actions  

Well
last year's offseason pissed a lot of people off (myself included) to no end, and then, just for spite, we won the World Series.

So, I'm going to withhold judgement on the Cards hot stoves transactions until Oct '07.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Nov 16, 2006 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Well maybe,
Imagine that the Cards had acquired Weaver (coming off 2 good seasons in LA) and Belliard (former All-Star) and Preston Wilson before the season instead of Spivey, Cruz and Ponson. I think most of Card's nation would have been OK with last year's offseason. (Except maybe over-paying for Looper.)

Whadyathink?

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Nov 16, 2006 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Not to mention...
If we'd have come out of the offseason having decided to just give young, cheap RP's a shot (T Johnson, A Wainwright, Kinney, etc) instead of relying of expensive FA's like Looper and Rincon that bogged down the budget.

by airhad on Nov 16, 2006 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

It's only been
three weeks since the WS; why panic now?

by cardsrul on Nov 16, 2006 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks
for indulging me larry.

by JMedwick on Nov 16, 2006 10:31 AM EST reply actions  

sure JMed
if i recall, one selling point that attracted you to eaton was that he never got mentioned in the same breath as meche, padilla, et al --- hence might come cheap but provide essentially the same production.

i think that was true at one point --- ie, eaton seemed to be getting overlooked. i certainly overlooked him because he pitched only 65 innings last year and has never had a bust-out year. (what a catastrophic trade the rangers made, by the way; essentially they gave up several years of adrian gonzalez and chris young --- who you'll recall shut down the cards in the nlds --- to get 65 innings of adam eaton.)

if it is still possible to get eaton at $4m or $5m a year, or on a low-base contract with incentives, i might be in favor despite the caveats i've raised here. but if eaton ends up getting almost as much as the meche / lilly / padilla cohort, i'd be leery of him.

frankly, of that whole group this year the only pitchers i'd really be happy to have are schmidt and lilly. i mean, zito would be great, but the contract he's going to sign could cripple a team if he gets hurt or loses effectiveness.

the more i look at these pitchers, the more i am convinced the team is best served to return adam wainwright to the rotation. . . . he carries far less risk, and has just as high a ceiling, as meche et al.

by lboros on Nov 16, 2006 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I would genearly agree
If you can get Eaton for a comparitave bargin, then I think he has some value. But if say he and Meche are both going to cost around the same 8-9 million a year for 3-4 years, then I see no reason to sign either one, because neither look all that different from Brett Tomko or any other pitcher with good stuff who never could put it together.

All in all, it is just a bad year for a team trying to reconstruct its pitching staff through free agency and the Cards don't have the trading chips to get those pitchers who could be had through trade. The more I think about it the more I like a rotation of Carp, Reyes, Wainwright one FA stater. With a payroll over $100 million, the Cards have the money to get one FA starter of their choice. Who that should be, I don;t know. If you are going to blow 9 million on a 2nd tier starter, then why not go after Weaver or Suppan. At least you know they will work well with Duncan. Of the two, I would lean toward Weaver.

The 5th spot is the big question for me. I like the idea of trading for someone like Maholm. It would give the Cardinals the possiblity of building a deep young group of 4 pitchers (Reyes, Wainwright, Maholm, and Narveson). But I think I would rather keep someone like Duncan than Juan E. And to get Maholm, the Cards probably need to trade Duncan.

by JMedwick on Nov 16, 2006 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Payroll
Even though payroll is increasing to the $100M range, that probably won't get us any more than what we thought we would be getting with 90-95 million. That's because pretty much all teams are awash in cash this year, so it's definitely a player's market. Frank Thomas is getting 2 years, $23 million, the Red Sox are forking over $50 million just to talk to Mr. Gyroball, and J.D. Drew just opted out of 3 years, $33 million because he thinks he'll get more. In short, I think all this payroll increase is going to do is allow us to keep up with the Joneses.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Nov 16, 2006 10:46 AM EST reply actions  

Why Jocketty doesnt negoiate in season
Players in their contract years perform better.  Its a proven fact.  We can look back now and say "Jocketty should have re-signed Suppan sooner" but because of all the pending free agents performances we now have a coveted World Series Title!

Plus, if he would have re-signed Mulder to a big time deal early last season look at how screwed we would be right now.  Hindsight is 20-20 so if Suppan walks we can just take the draft picks, thank him for his service here, and move on.

2006 Cardinals- An underdog story

by Born in 82 on Nov 16, 2006 10:53 AM EST reply actions  

Amen
Just glad Walt didn't re-sign Marquis after his great start this year. Could you imagine him at something like 4 years, 30MM...egads!
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Nov 16, 2006 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

contract year theory
is a bunch of hogwash.  due to selective memory we only remember the players that do well.  we forget that miguel tejada, edgar renteria, etc. slumped in their contract years.  just as many have a season right in line with their career path.

by dmb60614 on Nov 16, 2006 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

not sure about that...
I'm pretty sure Baseball Prospectus conducted research and published it in their book, Baseball Between The Numbers, proving that players do indeed perform better in their walk years.

by airhad on Nov 16, 2006 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

havent read that one but
i have read numerous others that show no significant statistical variation.

by dmb60614 on Nov 16, 2006 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, Basball Prospectus etc.
have shown that it's absolutely not hogwash.

by sdrone on Nov 16, 2006 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Good citation...
We may be discussing trivials here as the more important point in the big picture is that we need at least 2 starting pitchers (if we wise up and move wainwright to the rotation) if not 3. Not to mention a 2b and an upgrade for the 4th OF.

Jocketty's proven himself over the long haul as an astute businessman, even if I was appalled last year at the Looper and Encarnacion signings.

But I'm sure glad, to the point above, that we're not stuck with some awful contracts overpaying for Marquis, Mulder, etc.

by airhad on Nov 16, 2006 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

don't over-estimate the walk year effect
Baseballprospectus also admits that walk year numbers are largely a product of the year most free agents hit the open market 28-30 years old. These are usually peak years for the average MLB player with decline likely to follow.
All my friends became Cardinal fans and grew up happy and liberal. I became a Cub fan and grew up imbittered and conservative." -- George Will

by wannabeGedman on Nov 16, 2006 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

the methodology
you bring up a good point.  i've never really been impressed with the methodologies the studies used.  the premise of contract year theory is that players will do not just better, but better in a statistically significant way, in their walk year as compared to the other years of their career.  in doing the studies, authors generally look at 1-2 years before the walk year and the walk year.  sometimes they look at the year after the walk year, but not always. what they need to do is examine the entire career path.  they need to plot a career trend line, then see if the walk year is statistically different or just natural variation.

for example, some claim carlos beltran's 2004 as an example of increased performance by a player in a walk year.  his 2004 was statistically better than prior years and he even exhibited a precipitous drop in 2005.  his ops+ trend line so far is:

2001--119
2002--108
2003--126
2004--136
2005-- 95
2006--153

most studies generally stop the year after the contract year (2005 in this case).  they would have identified 2004 as a "career year."  however, when you add the 2006 data it looks more like a natural progression possibly related to the age of the player, like wannabeGedman said.  by looking at the entire career you can determine if the walk year merely exhibits natural variation/progression, or is in fact statistically different from the other years.  anything less is an incomplete analysis and doesnt really tell us anything.

by dmb60614 on Nov 16, 2006 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

You misunderstand
I wasn't arguing that they should have signed Suppan earlier this summer...only that, if they really wanted him around for the future, it would have been smarter to do so at that time.  Not negotiating with players in-season essentially says to the player, so long, nice knowing you.  

You'll notice that when they REALLY want to keep a player, Walt breaks this rule  (Rolen, Carpenter).  

I agree that in-season signings are a risk.  You risk that the player gets hurt, like Mulder.  But waiting carries its own risks: you might get stuck overpaying for mediocrity (Looper) or you have to keep picking guys off the scrap heap and hope it works out (Ponson, Weaver, Esteban Yan).

Also, I'm not sure it's a "proven fact" that players perform better in contract years.  Conventional wisdom, maybe.

by blove121 on Nov 16, 2006 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Manny?!?
Buster Olney this morning brings up that Manny Ramirez could be had for about $42 million over 3 years from the Red Sox and a couple of prospects. Would anyone jump on that? I know about the whole "he's a flake" thing, but imagine the joy you would have the first time you get to say "That's just Manny being Manny" and then watch him slug over .600 against lefties and drive in 100 for the n-teenth consecutive season.

by bdief on Nov 16, 2006 12:01 PM EST reply actions  

With an influx pitching staff
I don't know that we need an outfielder that is actually worse than Chris Duncan.  Plus, he won't have the 'Monsta' to keep balls that get behind him from turning into triples.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 16, 2006 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Manny
Manny's future is in the AL. He's 34 and a poor fielder.

If you ever need proof that fielding percentage doesn't tell you the whole story, Manny's career fielding position in the outfield is .977, while Willie Mays' was .981.

by Fitz on Nov 16, 2006 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

hitting and defense
some players (chris duncan maybe?) might have trouble hitting enough to overcome their defensive shortcomings.  manny, imo, is one of those players that can out hit his errors and botched plays.  i agree that he is better off in the AL, but i would still take him on my NL team any day.

by dmb60614 on Nov 16, 2006 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

uh...
... Manny can be on my team any day of the week.

it isn't happening; he's not going anywhere, much less the Cards. they do this talk every year, and Manny always ends up with the BoSox.

but if it were real? hell yeah, i'd trade Duncan + prospect (Narveson? not Reyes or Wainwright) for 3 years of Manny. his salary would be under 15 mil/year, which is looking more and more like a total bargain.

by kindred on Nov 16, 2006 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

He can hit...
but I don't like his attitude. I'm not sure how he would fit in our clubhouse.

Besides, would he even agree to come to STL? Think of David Wells and his snub of the Cards. I could be wrong but I think Manny might pull the same stunt.

I think we could get much better value in LF. I'd rather sign Luis Gonzalez. Gonzo seems like a good fit even if for only one year.

"Don't fail to miss tomorrow's game!" - Dizzy Dean

by jdubya on Nov 16, 2006 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Adam Eaton doesn't excite me...
When you hear the name Adam Eaton, does anyone get excited?

I would rather pay up for Suppan than get Adam Eaton. Or just go with Carp, Reyes, Wainer (maybe Narvie) and then take the dumpster diver approach.

My hope is that the Cards will re-sign Suppan or Weaver. Maybe with the increased payroll and a hometown discount, we can afford one of the two. My preference is Suppan. Too much risk that Weaver will revert back to his old ways. Besides, IMO Suppan is more of a Cardinal than Weaver. Seems like Suppan is well-liked on the team. Not to say that Weaver isn't but that Suppan is more so.

However, with Boston paying $51 mil just to talk to Matsuzaka, everything has been blow out of the water. Pitcher's will cash in this year. You can probably say goodbye to Suppan or Weaver. Just don't give me Eaton. Give me a dumpster diver guy for a million or 2.

"Don't fail to miss tomorrow's game!" - Dizzy Dean

by jdubya on Nov 16, 2006 12:26 PM EST reply actions  

agreed
the repeating of eaton's name doesn't excite me, but neither do any of the other names that you mention.

i keep trying to bring myself to vote in the sidebar poll, but i can't muster enough interest in any of these guys to do so.  i guess, if pressed, i could come up with some preference, but there's little difference among these guys.  lets grab one cheap, see if he works out (a la ponson) and move on.  

by sdesserman on Nov 16, 2006 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Excited?...no.
There are only two names on the FA list of pitchers that are exciting, and we all know who they are.  

IMO the all the discussion over Eaton was more in the line that he might be had for $3-5 million a year less for a three year deal than guys like Supp, Weaver, et al, and is a comparable pitcher with more up-side.

I don't think there's a single FA pitcher out there (cept Zito and Schmidt worth more than $8 mil/year).

Wonder if we could get Woody for $4-5 mil per for a year or two.

by cardzfanbub on Nov 16, 2006 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Suppan
I think if you are not a Cardinal the name Suppan initially excites you b/c every time people see him in the playoffs he pitches lights out.  I think once fans of other teams really look at his stats they will realize he is basically an innings eater.  

I also seem to remember when he pitched for the Red Sox at the end of a season and was a terrible pitcher.  So it will be interesting if:

A. He goes to a big market team (just doesn't seem to fit his personality).

B. Just how poorly he will do without two or three gold glovers playing behind him and offense that has been pretty strong the whole time he has been here.

I just think Suppan has benefited from playing with some pretty good teams and if he is expected to be more than a .500 pitcher then whoever signs him is going to be disappointed. But he is a great good who will be good for any club house.

Cards in 5

by cardfan2 on Nov 16, 2006 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

whoops
that should be great guy in the last sentence...(I must remember to read before post.)
Cards in 5

by cardfan2 on Nov 16, 2006 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

lboros old matrix
with Edmonds correction:

If payroll really does go to $105m, they've got $32.3m to spend.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 16, 2006 12:35 PM EST reply actions  

32.3 mil
first, thanks for the update.

second, 32.3 mil sounds like a lot until you start looking at the holes.  

a 2b, 2 starters (or 3 depending on the wainright/izzy gambit) and maybe an bench player for the infield...

on second thought maybe it is a lot.  10 mil each for a 2b and each starter with some leftover for the bench doesn't sound so bad.

by sdesserman on Nov 16, 2006 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

True, even if they went full out into the Soriano
sweepstakes and offered him $90 million/6 years with a breakdown like this:

2007-14m
2008-15m
2009-15m
2010-15m
2011-15m
2012-16m

That would keep him paid less per year than Albert, offering him 1 more year and is better than the rumored Phillies offer.

Now, I don't think he'd accept that deal, however if he did, that would leave them with $18.3m for two starters, a secondbasemen and the bench.

So, Soriano seems still like a long shot with the increased payroll.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 16, 2006 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

if you get Soriano...
... i doubt you'd see another 2B signed. if they can get that bat, the Cards will just stick with Dunc/Enc out there, and platoon with Taguchi or something.

by kindred on Nov 16, 2006 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

a few more million
i think i remember reading that the cards (for internal purposes) calculate the payroll based on their actual cash outlay for that season.  that means you could subtract deferred money from the contracts.  pujols goes from 15MM to 12MM.  rolen goes from 12MM to 10MM.  thats an extra 5MM for this year.  of course, there are an unknown amount incentives to be paid.

by dmb60614 on Nov 16, 2006 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

They added Spiezo which takes the total up to
something like 30 mil left for a 2B, 2 to 3 starters.  They aren't going to find power at 2B (unless it is Soriano) so they actually have some cash to throw at some quality starting pitching.  I don't know that other than Lee or Soriano that there is a big quality bat out there.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 16, 2006 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

pitching-focused
i think it's clear to everyone that we need pitching.  walt's said as much that he will be focused on aquiring starting pitching.

but as we discuss all of the potential fa sp's out there, i believe we are all coming to the same conclusion....in my best arkansas language....the pickin's are pretty slim.

so why dump alot of cash on guys that we know are mediocre, just for the sake of spending money on pitching?

my proposal...let's go get an impact bat.  let's use this money and go after soriano.  i saw manny discussed above.  i'd prefer soriano, but i'm not opposed to manny.  dude can rake.  bigtime.  soriano is not nearly the defensive liability though.  so let's focus on an impact bad and spend our big money there.  and then we can let all of these fa sp's get big contracts that they don't deserve and we'll come in on the back end and scoop up a serviceble #4 or #5.  we can move wainwright to the rotation and maybe use narveson or whatever.

not sure if that's plausible, but i just HATE spending our money on pitching when this crop of fa's are just mediocre at best.  i'd rather go get a big bat.

by busch league on Nov 16, 2006 12:55 PM EST reply actions  

Cubs pick up Cotts...
The Cubs just picked him up from the White Sox.. that team sure is making some moves...

by Timbo02 on Nov 16, 2006 1:12 PM EST reply actions  

Good Trade
For the White Sox. Carlos Vasquez looks like a promising lefty reliever with good rates. Aardsma's a good right hander. Neal Cotts gave up 2 hr/9 last season and walks too many batters.

I worry that this positions the Cubs for a relief pitching for Westbrook trade, though.

by liam on Nov 16, 2006 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

2b starting
Remember Cubs started the pricing for 2b at $13 mil for 3 years by signing Mark DeRosa to that.

by DimitroffVodka on Nov 16, 2006 2:03 PM EST reply actions  

yeah, thanks a lot Hendry
These are 162 game career averages for the following two baggers:

DeRosa- 65 R, 10 HR, 53 RBI, .273 AVG, .735 OPS
LoRetta- 78 R, 8 HR, 61 RBI, .299 AVG, .765 OPS
Belliard- 82R, 12HR, 70 RBI, .275 AVG, .749 OPS
Kennedy- 71 R, 8 HR, 58 RBI, .280 AVG, .730 OPS
Durham- 107 R, 17 HR, 72 RBI, .281 AVG, .797 OPS

Just for reference:

Miles- 70 R, 4 HR, 46 RBI, .280 AVG, .682 OPS

Obviously Duhram is the best offensive 2nd basemen out there. His hamstrings scare the hell out of me though and he's going to get a hefty contract. No thanks.

As the same goes with LB's thought of going out and grabbing a mid tier pitcher now (Lilly please), I would say do the same with Belly or LoRetta. Bring Gonzo here on a 1 year contract and use the remaining for the other two pitchers (one of them on a 1 year contract) and the bench. You would only have to fill the rotation with 1 starter next year.

I'm fine with Gonzo being here on a 1 year contract as a starter in left. There are some good free agent names in the outfield next year (a. jones, m. bradley, v. wells, abreu).

Just my 2 cents.

by Pujols4Pres on Nov 16, 2006 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

3 years $45 mil
is what mlbtraderumors is claiming Boston is paying for Matzawhatever. I hope that is not true.

by newguy @ Viva El Birdos on Nov 16, 2006 2:08 PM EST reply actions  

Brilliant
The Red Sox are going to pay 96MM for three years for a pitcher who never pitched an inning in a MLB game. This makes the AROD contract look frugal. That's about $1MM per start, but I guess that is about what Clemens made last year. Stock up on the Maalox, Walt. A bunch of mediocre pitchers are going to get 8MM to 11MM per year. The Red Sox have now joined the Axis of Evil. (It now includes the Mets, Yanks, Pier One Imports, and the Red Sox)
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Nov 17, 2006 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Peavy
they are also claiming that Peavy is going to the Braves.  Must be nice.

by Toddius396 on Nov 16, 2006 2:30 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah...
That would be beautiful. But the Cubs just got Neal Cotts from the White Sox. He's not a starter, I know. But the folks at BCB seem to think he's been acquired to give him a shot at the #4 or #5 spot in the rotation. How stupid would that be? Anyway, hope that deal doesn't scuttle our chances of dumping Betty in Chi. I'd LOVE to see him in the blue pajamas giving up HR after HR in the Sacred Pile Of Bricks. It's just too good to be true.

by rockin redbird on Nov 16, 2006 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I see the Cardinals....
going hard after one of the big bats i.e. Soriano or Lee and filling in the pitching gaps with trades. I believe Lopez and/or Jennings will be a Cardinal uniform. I'd love to see Jocketty pull Willis out of his you know what, but that is just wishful thinking.I also believe that if they will have woody back if he will come back. He would have never left. And thats not a bad thing.So the rotation starts to look ok. Narveson will be given a chance to start I have to believe also. Or at least a look in spring training.

by Cylix3341 on Nov 16, 2006 2:38 PM EST reply actions  

this is starting alot like
last yr moves being made cards sittign still...again if they locked down carp right now long term id be happy
Kenny is a "dirt" bag?

by punchinjudy on Nov 16, 2006 3:48 PM EST reply actions  

Edmonds
Has anyone heard anything about Jimmy's surgery?
Cards in 5

by cardfan2 on Nov 16, 2006 5:45 PM EST reply actions  

The Cards re-signed Spezio
Don't know the terms but it's for 2 years with a club option for '09.

by Pujols4Pres on Nov 16, 2006 5:48 PM EST reply actions  

where
are you hearing this?

by DCGreg on Nov 16, 2006 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Cards
There is a press release going around now

by Fitz on Nov 16, 2006 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks
Anyone know why it is that the official releases don't give out the salary figures but folks always seem to be able to figure out the $$ pretty quickly?

by DCGreg on Nov 16, 2006 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

me either...
... unless one or both of these conditions is met:
  1. Cards got a BIG hometown discount. still don't see anything about the money.
  2. Spiezio will be the starting 2B, thus freeing up money to go after a big OF bat or a SP.

by kindred on Nov 16, 2006 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

#1 wouldn't make...
any sense for Speez, since, at age 34, he likely won't have any more paydays, and #2 doesn't make any sense for the Cards since they generally value defense at second and Speez hasn't played their since forever.

They usually like to turnover the bench, but I guess not this year.

Next up: A $2.5mm contract for Preston Wilson. Yuck

by guayzimi on Nov 16, 2006 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree...
... which is why i'm surprised.

i don't know, maybe Speeze learned in Seattle that money can't buy you happiness.

and i agree that #2 doesn't make sense, because there are so many 2B options out there. they didn't have to opt for Speeze. but geeze, they signed him quick. maybe they thought that the longer they waited, the more some other team would decide to over-spend on him a la Philly/Nunez last year.

i guess we'll see when the money comes out. i'm glad to have him back, but not if it forces us to skimp someplace where we really need help.

by kindred on Nov 16, 2006 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought for sure...
he would get a 2yr/$8mm deal to play 3rd somewhere.

People are pushing him as a super-sub, but he doesn't play the outfield well, and, though I've never seen him at SS or 2nd, I would bet he's pretty brutal there too.

He was good with the stick in '06, obviously, but I see a regression in his future.

by guayzimi on Nov 16, 2006 6:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Speezio's contract
according to Sportscenter is $4.5M for 2 years.  Cards site says team option for 2009 is also part of the contract.

by ArkansasTravs on Nov 16, 2006 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

bernie items
Cards, Spiezio, 2-year deal

no word on the money yet...

also, making traction with Jeff Weaver...

had a meeting with Adam Eaton's agent...

definitely interested in Kip Wells, and he wants to come here...

trying to talk to Padilla's agent...

Luis Gonzalez ... leaning to LA...

Cardinals had interest in Lugo; he wants to play SS and make SS money... nothing going to happen there...

Jocketty exploring trades for starting pitchers who might be a short-term fill, like Mulder was -- a pitcher who has a year or two left before free agency.

--B

by DCGreg on Nov 16, 2006 6:17 PM EST reply actions  

you just beat me...
i kind of like all of that. they're making traction with Weaver, which is good. Gonzalez is prolly not coming, which is probably good. Lugo won't be worth his salary, so that's good.

i'll bet we end up with Wells (unfortunately). i think i'd like Padilla as well. it does seem like they are going after some guys; if they land two of the four mentioned above then AW will stay in the pen, and the 5-spot will be a retread or Narveson/Hancock.

no mention of a big OF bat, tho.

by kindred on Nov 16, 2006 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

No
I read somewhere the other day where his agent said that was a mistake.  He has representation (not Boras) but I did recognize the name.

by OCCardsFan on Nov 16, 2006 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

How important
was he when Rolen was out? Who had those two huge hits in the NLCS? Who showed his team how happy he was to be there by dyeing his chinwhiskers Cardinal Red? And who played his ass off everytime he went out there?
This was a good move, IMO.

by cardsrul on Nov 16, 2006 6:19 PM EST reply actions  

jason jennings
what exactly are the Rox looking for to move him i wonder?

by erik on Nov 16, 2006 6:25 PM EST reply actions  

You'd think it'd be a lot...
The guy's a pretty attractive choice. He's young (27) and pitched exceptionally well both at Coors and on the road. He made $4.5m last year, not sure what he's set to make this year.

If you were in the Rox's shoes, what would you want? Prob at least some promising arms in the mid minors (Hawksworth? Lambert?) and someone that you can plug into the major league roster (Duncan?).

Would you be willing to give up Hawksworth, Lambert, and Duncan for 1 guaranteed year of Jennings?

by airhad on Nov 16, 2006 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Weaver...
I think Dream is extremely comfortable with Duncan; he basically credited him with turning his season around this year. And I think being in St. Louis suits him; far way from all the glare of either LA or NY. Will he pitch better in '07? Nobody knows, but I'm not as uneasy about him coming back than I weas in July and August.

by cardsrul on Nov 16, 2006 6:30 PM EST reply actions  

I don't think our pitching
is necessarily as bad as we/I make it out to be. I've been thinking about this whole thing because I'm impatient about this whole process and I like to pretend this is like trading baseball cards. (One time I traded an Orel Hersheiser for an Ozzie Smith.) My point is that regardless of anything, we can have a 5-man rotation without doing anything....
Carp
Reyes
Wainwright
Narveson
Hancock

Now granted that's not great, but it might be. Think of it this way. Take out those last two names. Insert Marquis and Ponson. Essentially that is who you are replacing. (Beginning of season.) I'm going to call wainwright/mulder and reyes/suppan a wash, only on terms of what we know what we have in each individual.

Main point: DON'T SIGN SH*T, IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO. I think we should get who we need however it takes to do it via trade/money/FA whatever.

Here Comes the King! Here Comes the Big #1! Budweiser Beer the King is Second to None!

by OKCardsfan on Nov 16, 2006 6:44 PM EST reply actions  

No
That rotation is terrible.  

I'm not sure you could get 200 innings out of more than 2 of those guys in '07.

by sdrone on Nov 16, 2006 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Cards resign spezio!
great news, i just heard this on 590 the fan.
"cards resign scott spiezio to a two year deal with an option for a third."
personally, i think this is great news! i really did not think that the cards could afford him after the great year that he had.
www.redbirdramblings.wordpress.com

by cards4life on Nov 16, 2006 7:15 PM EST reply actions  

World Series Shares
Anyone find where there is a list of who received the partials and cash instead of the full shares?

by saladdin69 on Nov 16, 2006 7:20 PM EST reply actions  

How about Clement?
It doesn't seem like he is really on Boston's "a" list and they would probably like to move his salary if they sign Matsu. I know he has had a really tough couple of years, but he was pretty darn good when he was the Cubs.  Getting him back to the NL and with Dunc might be a good reclamation project.

by OCCardsFan on Nov 16, 2006 7:25 PM EST reply actions  

I think he is out
till ASB with shoulder surgery.

Yep, from ESPN:
Nov. 12, 60-day DL, Clement (rotator cuff surgery) is reporting good progress in his comeback and hopes to return to action by the All-Star break, the Boston Herald reports.

SPIN: A return by the All-Star break represents a best-case scenario. Clement underwent surgery at the end of September.

by Just Rope Ball on Nov 16, 2006 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks
Good info.  Nevermind then.  Maybe for 08 he will be a cheap pickup reclamation project.

by OCCardsFan on Nov 16, 2006 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Stros
www.mlbtraderumors.com

Offers to Lee and Soriano...I hope this is not going to work...thsoe to in the juice box? yuck..they could let soriano play 2b too but then would that make burke available? or would they move Willie T? neither one would go to a central team but just asking

Kenny is a "dirt" bag?

by punchinjudy on Nov 16, 2006 7:27 PM EST reply actions  

Speezio's contract
according to SportsCenter is for $4.5M for the 2 years and the official Cards site says the contract includes a team option for 2009.

At $2.25M/yr, I don't think have a problem with this contract.  What did Speez make last year?

by ArkansasTravs on Nov 16, 2006 7:41 PM EST reply actions  

323k
2.25 per seems very high for a utility man...i don't know what to think of this contract. i do like the speez, though.

by erik on Nov 16, 2006 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Good Contract
Hell, the Cubs signed their backup catcher to a contract that's virtually the exact same deal. And he sucks.

Spiezio can play 3rd, OF, and 2B on a team where the OF and 3B are somewhat injury-prone. I think it's hard not to love this deal.

by Fitz on Nov 16, 2006 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

good point
Blanco was actually $5.25 mln guaranteed over two years -- ridiculous for a backup catcher. The market's going nuts, and Spiezio's deal doesn't strike me as out of whack, even if he regresses a bit (as he will).

I do wonder whether anyone in the organization is thinking Spiezio might be the everyday 2B.

by DCGreg on Nov 16, 2006 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotta love..
rookies litterally trying to screw the WS trophy.  
"Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer." - Ted Williams

by WiscCard on Nov 16, 2006 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

whew
nice farmer's tan by lil dunc.  that's nearly blinding.
Albert Pujols is god with a lowercase "g". Let's go Redbirds, World Series '06 here we come!

by stlsportsfan on Nov 16, 2006 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

minor deal
randy keisler, a lefty was signed to a minor league contract per the AP "The 30-year-old Keisler had no decisions and a 4.50 ERA in 10 innings spanning 11 appearances last season with the Athletics before being designated for assignment in early August. He is 4-4 with a 6.82 ERA in 51 games over five seasons with 17 starts, also pitching for the Yankees, Padres and Reds" http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/16/cardinals.spiezio.ap/index.html

by erik on Nov 16, 2006 8:31 PM EST reply actions  

hmm
"The 34-year-old Spiezio revived his career in St. Louis last season. He signed a minor league contract and made the team as a utility player, making 61 starts at a total of five positions -- all four infield spots, plus left field."

I guess I missed that game when Spiezio started at SS...

by madding on Nov 16, 2006 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I was at it
It was one of the games in LA.  I can't remember much about his performance though.
2006 stl cardinals - all of the glory, none of the goat hair.

by SleepyCA on Nov 16, 2006 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

whoops, never mind
He started at 2B that day.  sigh.

Then the next day it was luna at 2B and miles at short, leading off, which is what I was thinking of.

2006 stl cardinals - all of the glory, none of the goat hair.

by SleepyCA on Nov 16, 2006 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

The Speez contract seems a bit rich
for John Mabry-plus. BUT with Rolen's shoulder and Pujol's heels, having a ready-made corner with a significant bat is pretty important.

The big questions:

  1. Can he play second?
  2. Can he play outfield?
  3. Does LaRussa know that not all infielders can play outfield?

by Red in Chicago on Nov 16, 2006 8:49 PM EST reply actions  

wow
duncan has huge biceps

by cjwest20 on Nov 16, 2006 8:56 PM EST reply actions  

Why does everyone think Duncan
is trade bait?

He is the coach's son, after all. He's cheap, and he could have some really great long-term potential.

Since the Cardinals control his life, why wouldn't they want to ride the curve with him. I know he makes a mockery of right field, but he can hit.

by Red in Chicago on Nov 16, 2006 9:50 PM EST reply actions  

because
his stock could be at an all time high.  for all we know, last season could have been a fluke and all he ever does is hit 10 HR with a .200 average for the rest of his career.  we could get some decent return for him while he can still get competitive compensation.  while i believe this isn't a fluke, that is my understanding of the opposing angle.  i think that those mooshots that he hit are not flukes.  i bet he will struggle the beginning of nexte year until he can make adjustments to the way pitchers attack him.  but you can hit 450 bombs by pure chance.
Albert Pujols is god with a lowercase "g". Let's go Redbirds, World Series '06 here we come!

by stlsportsfan on Nov 16, 2006 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I listen to Chicago sports-talk radio...
And the Cubbie fans that call in are beside themselves with confusion over the Aramis Ramirez contract (they consider him worthless when they need him to come through...ala Yanks fans and A-Rod) and the DeRosa signing. They are already pulling their hair out over the team's interest in Betty, saying things like "He couldn't even pitch for the garbage-pile Cardinals playoff rotation...and yet we want him?!" Gotta love it!

by Big Rev on Nov 16, 2006 10:16 PM EST reply actions  

Well
a few thoughts. I like the signing of another cheap lefty for the pen who can slot in if things go well.

I don't know if I like Spezio. He was good last year. But I wonder if we could have gotten Cattalanto for less.

by JMedwick on Nov 16, 2006 10:28 PM EST reply actions  

Here is an updated Matrix
with the Spiezio deal as reported.  I'm sure lboros will put an updated one up tomorrow.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 16, 2006 11:13 PM EST reply actions  

I would guess that Spiezio gets 2M
a year w/ a 500k buyout on the option.  But I could be wrong.
Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Nov 16, 2006 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

my controversial pick for 2b is...
...free agent Todd Walker. You could pick him up for 2/3.0. Put the left-hander second in the batting order and you'll get a solid .280 to .290 with 10 HRs and a lot of action on the bases in front of AP. Is he slow? Yes. Is he less than average in the field? Yes, probably. Why? He is cheap and is desperate to play for a winner and would create opportunities for AP to not only get pitched to, but also to drive in runs. Bonus, it frees up money to acquire starting pitching.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Nov 17, 2006 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I like Walker
he gets on base at a nice clip around .350 the last 3 years which is right in line with his career numbers.  I think that he's probably a better offensive option than anyone outside of Durham or Soriano and I agree that you could snag him for cheap.

The downside is that he isn't regarded well defensively.  His rate2 is a career 94 at 2b and he doesn't have a good reputation.  I think his bat makes up for that but given the Cardinals proclivity for strong middle infield defense...not sure the front office would like him.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Nov 17, 2006 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Not my first choice, but not opposed
I'd prefer a 2 or 3-year deal with Loretta or Belliard for their glove and decent enough bat, but the idea of a one-year Walker providing a solid LH bat in the No. 2 slot--and a bat that's capable of the "damage" TLR is enamored, is intriguing. However, his defense must be pretty below par for the Red Sox and Dusty Baker to find ways not to play him there. The guy can hit, though.  
Baily

by Baily on Nov 17, 2006 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Walker or Hairston?
I like Walker for his run production, but for about the same money you could probably get Jerry Hairston. (He is coming off a horrible season) Decent OBP, very fast, better defense, and can play OF...just a thought.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Nov 17, 2006 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

deferred money
Someone pointed out on another post that Both Pujols and Rolen have money deferred. Pujols has 3 mil making his actual salary this year 12 mil. and Rolen has 2 mil making it 10 mil. So thats another 5 mil the cards have to play with. add the 2 mil of Edmonds and thats a starting pitcher right there for this year.

by Cylix3341 on Nov 18, 2006 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Targets
From that list, I'd target Padilla, Wolf, and Lilly.  I always thought that Philadelphia had more talent in their starting rotation than they showed.  I'd like to see what Duncan could do with those two.  As for Lilly, I seem to remember him being a pretty good 2nd or 3rd pitcher in your rotation.

by koala78 on Nov 16, 2006 11:23 PM EST reply actions  

Padilla, Wolf, Lilly
These, along with Weaver have the most potential of the 8MM-11MM bunch of mid tier guys. Would you rather have 2 of these or Schmidt and a guy like Wells or Eaton and fill the rotation with Hancock or Narveson? (Probably about 18MM for each option. (Or Wells, Eaton, Ortiz to fill it)
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Nov 17, 2006 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

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