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The all-cardinals team: 1B

since there's been no real Cardinals news in a while, and because this talk about McGwire and the hall of fame has me thinking about cardinals history a little more than normal, I thought that I'd take this chance to ask the community to assemble an all-cardinal team.  Since we're talking about Big Mac, let's start with his position: 1B.

OK, so first thing, if a player is moved from one position to another during his Cardinal career, he'll be considered to be a player at the position he played the majority of his games at.  Hence, I consider Pujols to be a 1B, and Stan Musial to be an outfielder

Star-divide

So, I'll (somewhat arbitrarily) consider our candidates to be Albert Pujols, Mark McGwire, Keith Hernandez, Bill White, Johnny Mize, Jim Bottomley, Ed Konetchy, and Charlie Comiskey, who played for the precursor Brown Stockings.  I will now assemble their Cardinals stats, neglecting what they did for other teams.  

Player------OPS+HR/RBI/SB/OBP/Games played
Pujols:--------169/201/621/29
.416/790      2001-2005

McGwire:-----170/220/473/4/.428/545      1/2 1997-2001

Hernandez:---130/093/658/90/.385/1165   1974-1/2 1983

White:--------118/140/631/65/.357/1113   '59-'65, '69

Mize:----------170/158/653/14/.418/854   '36-41

Bottomley:-----136/181/1105/50/.387/1392   '22-32

Konetchy:------130/036/476/151/.362/982    '07-'13

Comiskey:----092/026/694/336/.299/1036  1882-1889, 1891

so, what does all of this mean to me?  First, regardless of whether or not they're playing archaic baseball or not, someone having a .299 career OBP and sticking with the majors, much less playing on 4 pennant winning teams is absolutely amazing.

It also suprises me how similar a lot of these guys are in some of these categories.  It seems a hallmark of Cardinals 1B to hit 650 or so RBI during their cardinals tenure, whether they do it over 10 years like Mex, or in 5 like Johnny Mize.  200 or so HR also seem to be a common mark.  As far as OPS+, 3 guys (Mize, Pujols, McGwire) essentially hit 170 for the Cards, a damn good mark.  Big Mac's IBB also clearly helped him amass the lead in OBP.  Charlie Comiskey has a vast lead at SB at the position, but his other stats are soooo weak.  So, the question becomes, who is your all-time Cardinals first sacker?  My vote and reasoning in the comments.

Poll
Who is the best all-time Cards 1B?
Albert Pujols 2001-2005
233 votes
Mark McGwire 2nd half of 1997-2001
8 votes
Keith Hernandez 1974 - 2nd half of 1983
10 votes
Bill White 1959-1965 and 1969
2 votes
Johnny Mize 1936-1941
14 votes
Jim Bottomley 1922-1932
8 votes
Ed Konetchy 1907-1913
2 votes
Charlie Comiskey 1882-1889 and 1891
2 votes

279 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 15 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I voted for Pujols
I really wanted to vote for one of the older guys to give myself some credit, but looking up the old school stats gave me little justifcation to do so.  In pretty much every regard, Pujols has equalled Johnny Mize's and Mark McGwire's Cardinal tenures, and he's still playing, and signed to a long-term deal.  I was suprised how well McGwire stacked up, actually, considering his short tenure with the team, but he did have two absolutely absurd seasons.  

anyway, I hope you guys find these pointless debates as interesting as I do...

by Valatan on Jan 24, 2006 1:09 AM EST reply actions  

Yes!
Good series to start in this lull period.  

by Brock20 on Jan 24, 2006 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking of doing this myself
There have been so many good 1B in Cards history...

What about the Rippers?

As in Jack and Collins

by Zubin on Jan 24, 2006 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Though
Mex was my teenage favorite, it's gotta be Albie. He's gonna give The Man a run for his money as greatest Cardinal ever--1st base is a lock.

by rockin redbird on Jan 24, 2006 1:55 AM EST reply actions  

For argument's sake
I'll say Johnny Mize.  Really, it's a push between him and Albert.  But following Bill James's practice of ranking active/young players conservatively, I'll give the edge to Mize.  I absolutely agree that Albert will soon be the undisputed champeen at 1B--really, another typical Albert year would do it.  But Johnny Mize played at that high level for about 60 more games than Albert has (so far).  From '36 to '41 he created 10.32 runs per 27 outs (Albert's career mark is 9.58).  Like Pooj, his walk-to-strikeout ratio is absurdly good.  He hit .364 one year, and that wasn't even his best year.  That would be 1939, when he had a .444 OBP.  Plus, great nickname.

Like I sez, his numbers are basically dead even with Albert's, but Mize has an extra half-season of greatness under his belt; for now, he's my choice.

Please don't read this, Albert.

by Hummingbird on Jan 24, 2006 9:12 AM EST reply actions  

McCarver...
"wrote" a coffee table type book on this very topic.  When the discussion dies down, I'll let you know who he chose, if anyone is interested.  Its dated before the rise of Albert the Great, so take that into account when I post it.  

by Brock20 on Jan 24, 2006 12:10 PM EST reply actions  

I wonder
who he'd choose? Mex or Mize, I'll bet. Or maybe somebody not on the list? That'd be fun.

by rockin redbird on Jan 24, 2006 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Shockingly...
..McCarver chose himself, on the strength of his performance in 83 games there in 1973-74.

by salvomania on Jan 24, 2006 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

HA!!
Shoulda known. That cracks me up.

by rockin redbird on Jan 24, 2006 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Mize and Bottomley
Clearly in my mind its Johnny (Mize) or Jim (Bottomley).  The latter moreso on the length of his service.  Howver given the numbers posted and their respective era, I think Mize has a clear edge over Pujols.

by Zubin on Jan 24, 2006 11:11 PM EST reply actions  

Comiskey
Don't bash Comiskey too much... he was the guy who "invented" having a pitcher cover first when the 1B feilds a ball.

by Zubin on Jan 24, 2006 11:14 PM EST reply actions  

Well....
then maybe he will warrant a bench spot as a late inning defensive replacement.  

by Brock20 on Jan 25, 2006 8:09 AM EST reply actions  

No, that would be Hernandez
If I recall correctly, by the numbers he is far and away the best defensive 1B ever...

by Zubin on Jan 25, 2006 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I hate to correct you
But you guys are all wrong. The correct answer, of course, is Will Clark.
Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Jan 25, 2006 12:46 PM EST reply actions  

Will Clark
I honestly believe if he stayed with St Luois he would have put up very impressive numbers for 3-5 years more.

by Zubin on Jan 25, 2006 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

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