where they ain't II
some followup re yesterday's discussion of BABIP and luck:
first, jeff has another post up on the subject at Brew Crew Ball, this one showing which players undershot their career BABIP by the widest margins in 2005 -- the year's unluckiest hitters, if you will. none of the 29 guys on that list has hometown implications, altho a few (jacque jones, jose vidro, bret boone, eric byrnes) were real or hoped-for acquisition candidates.
once again jeff adds some empirical context to his post by looking back to 2004, listing that year's unluckiest hitters and tracking their performance into 2005 to see if their luck turned around. those results were not quite as one-sided as the outcomes for 2004's luckiest hitters (who, you'll recall, ran out of luck in 2005), but jeff offers a plausible explanation for that. i'll let you head over there to read it for yourself, check the data jeff presents, and form your own conclusions.
jeff also was generous enough to e-mail me a complete list of BABIP figures for the 2005 cardinals, with the team's offseason acquisitions tacked on as a bonus. the table includes not only each player's 2005 and career BABIPs, but also the percentage of at-bats that result in a BIP. it's a long list, so i'm not going to roll it into the post; click here if you want to check it out.
in the comments to yesterday's post, a number of readers questioned the notion that changes in a player's BABIP are necessarily the result of luck. why couldn't a higher BABIP reflect increased batting skill? a guy learns to take the slider the other way, and instead of grounding out to short he slaps singles to the opposite field; there's your increased BABIP. the guy didn't get lucky; he became a better hitter.
these kinds of adjustments take place all the time, right? even veteran hitters are constantly tinkering -- trying new stances, moving up on the plate, dropping their hands, shortening or lengthening their swings. and at the same time, pitchers and hitters are constantly adjusting to each other. the pitchers find they can jam a guy on hard stuff inside and pop him up, and they keep throwing it until the hitter adjusts and yanks a couple out of the park; then they change their approach, set him up for breaking balls low and away, and the hitter starts reaching for those and dribbling weak grounders; he eventually learns to look for those pitches and poke them down the line, which occasions yet another round of adjustments. this stuff never ends.
so couldn't variations in BABIP result from this natural ebb and flow, rather than blind luck? and my answer to that would be: absolutely. there are no doubt periods of time -- a week, a month, a whole season -- in which a given batter manages to stay a step ahead of the pitchers, make better and quicker adjustments, recognize pitches and patterns with more clarity than usual, and consequently hit the ball harder and better than he typically does. maybe that's what womack did in 2004; maybe it's what nunez did in 2005. or maybe they really were just lucky, and the ball had eyes for 'em one summer.
the question is whether such variations -- whether attributed to luck, adjustment, or god's will -- can produce sustained improvement in a batter's performance. and more to the point: can we find a way to distinguish sustainable improvement from the ephemeral kind? it's a more or less eternal question; get it wrong and you end up overpaying for tony womack or adrian beltre or (cough) tino martinez, or you hang onto a player a year too long or get rid of him a year too soon. nobody can get these things right with 100 percent certainty, but is there a way to improve the odds?
that's what jeff is asking with his BABIP stuff: does it give us a means to more reliably distinguish sustainable improvement from fleeting spikes in performance? maybe it does; maybe it's one of a range of tools (along with k rates, batted-ball data, jc bradbury's prOPS) that can help teams make better decisions in this regard. keep in mind that jeff is only looking at the margins of the spectrum -- the top and bottom 5 percent. BABIP might not be a useful benchmark for 90 to 95 percent of the hitters in a given year. it will be interesting to see how the ~60 players on jeff's luckiest/unluckiest lists for 2005 fare in 2006.
31 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
on improvement
Never under estimate the sway luck carries in the whole gosh darned cosmic scheme of things. Maybe I spent too much time with Godot, but randomness effects even baseball.
la vie es absurd...or something like that
by Ryan Van Bibber on Jan 18, 2006 9:16 AM EST reply actions
Those 20 fewer K's
In other words, BABIP might very well show little variance when a hitter is actually improving.
That's how, for instance, Jim Edmonds can be monstrously hot (or cold) and his BABIP may be relatively unchanged.
It's also why a very high (compared to one's norm) BABIP is a red flag (not necessarily an indisputable fact) that a hitter has, in fact, been getting lucky. Like 2005's Abe Nunez, or Juan Encarnacion.
good example s'mania
start with a base of 600 at-bats and 165 hits, a .275 average. assume his career-norm BABIP is .300.
now sprinkle an extra 30 at-bats into the season. in scenario A they're 30 strikeouts; the guy's line reads 165 / 630, a .262 average. since strikeouts don't count as BIP, the hitter's BABIP remains .300.
in scenario B, those extra 30 at-bats are balls in play. 9 of them fall for hits (his normal .300 BABIP); the guy's line reads 174 / 630, a .276 average.
another example: start with the same base (165 / 600). now sprinkle 10 at-bats throughout the year. in scenario A he gets 3 hits in 10 at-bats, his ordinary BABIP; final line reads 168/610, still a .275 average.
in scenario B, those 10 at-bats are all home runs. since HR don't count as balls in play, his BABIP remains unchanged; but his batting line is 175 / 610, a .287 average.
in both cases, the overall BA increases while the BABIP remains unchanged --- but there are concrete, easily identifiable changes in the batter's line (increased power, more frequent contact) that tell us the batter has improved his ability, rather than simply gotten lucky.
Marquis
by I Bleed Cardinal Red on Jan 18, 2006 10:25 AM EST reply actions
Surprised too
re marquis
contracts only make "sense"
A young guy on a certain career path who's arb-eligible will almost always see a hefty raise, which may ("fairly" or not) propel him past others more deserving of big bux. Everyone in the system understands it; Dontrell just signed rcently for $4.35 million, still $800K less than Marquis; is it because Marquis is better? No--it's because Marquis is at a stage in his progression that allows for a bigger payday.
Same with Carp--being derailed by injuries knocked him back in salary, and he has to work his way back up. Maybe not "fair," but it's how the system works, and everybody in the system---Carp included---understands that.
eh...
Nah,
carps contract
2 years/$13M (2006-07), plus incentives & $8M 2008 club option, he could make $17 if he hits all his incentives.
he's going to be around for at least another 3 y, so I'm not worried about it-yet.
BABIP
by vince eating tarp on Jan 18, 2006 1:16 PM EST reply actions
sheehan on cards
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4712
Personally I think Bigbie has more upside than Sheehan does. I still think he may have a 20/20 season in him.
And as a side note let me say how much I enjoy the annual off-season rite of passage where we get to read this:
"I still go to spring training with the same attitude I took five years ago: I want to make the team," he said following a two-hour autograph session at the Cardinals Winter Warm-Up.?
"It sounds stupid because people think I'm on this team, but that's not for sure. There's somebody in the minor leagues who wants to take that job from me just like I did in 2001," Pujols said.
Ah, Pujols. You're so friggin' awesome.
by demetre on Jan 18, 2006 2:35 PM EST reply actions
and...
Let me say its just a hunch.
Bigbie had all the upward marks of an improving young player before his recent slide. A fresh start in STL may be just what he needed.
After all, anyone who thought the Eckstein would be the 10th best SS in MLB going into 2005 would have been labeled ceritifiably insane.
by demetre on Jan 18, 2006 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
if you go by Win Shares
i won't
here's my hOPS for bigbie, meaning hunch ops-.782 in around 450ab's
Yer tellin me
I think that says more of their ratings than about how good Eckstein may or may not be...
Something smells fishy on that site...
But curiously enough, Eck only has, according to this site, 80 career win shares, meaning that he's averaged 13 a year prior to this year---then all of a sudden he gets 28. (was his 2005 that much better than his 2001-02?)
The key seems to be Eck's defense in 2005: somehow it's worth 7.0 win shares---the 15th most in all of baseball, and none of the 14 ahead of him have as many offensive win shares.
I love the guy, but these ratings just seem off to me...
his range factor was off the charts
i'm guessing his
"Add these up, and you can see that Win Shares are a great player comparison tool. I like using them for Hall of Fame discussions, or MVP arguments. Also, they're good for contract evaluations. Conversely, they're not well-suited for evaluating a player's true talent, so they're also not good for forecasting a player's or team's future performance."
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/2004-win-shares-have-arrived
Put another way..
(http://www.baseballgraphs.com/main/index.php/site/details/)
"The [defensive win share] calculations differ for each position. Essentially, James has selected four defensive statistics to evaluate positions. Here they are by position, listed in order of importance... Shortstops: Assists, Double Plays, Errors and Putouts"
I guess it would be a bit like comparing the hitting of players only knowing hits, walks, strikeouts and homeruns. (and not knowing at bats)
Or maybe not...
I'll go home now. I am confused.
yeah,
My original point was just to say that if anyone had predicted, pre-2005, that David Eckstein would even be in the running for 'most valuable SS in baseball,' he or she would have been quickly sent to the puzzle factory.
I just wanna point out
I love the guy, but he ain't perfect.
a more accurate way to figure out...
you're absolutely right.
by jeffbcb @ Viva El Birdos on Jan 18, 2006 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't realize...
the prOPS system
So What
by Birds on the Bat on Jan 19, 2006 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
Haren added
by elderj on Jan 19, 2006 10:49 AM EST reply actions



















