Game 136 Open Thread: September 3, 2005

by lboros on Sep 3, 2005 10:06 AM EDT in News Comment 22 comments

last night's loss is meaningless in and of itself -- as meaningless as a win would have been. the game's most important question -- is mulder healthy? -- got answered resoundingly in the affirmative, which is far more important than the game's outcome.

unfortunately, some other ongoing questions related to the cardinals' postseason chances got answered in the negative last night. questions like: can we count on larry walker to be in the lineup every day in october? is the left side of our bullpen -- a big question mark all season -- even just a little bit trustworthy? is our closer good enough? can we trust la russa to resist making unorthodox, erratic late-inning tactical decisions?

maybe it was the playoff-like atmosphere in the ballpark last night; or maybe it was the opponent -- last year's nlcs foe, and very possibly this year's as well. for whatever reason, the bullpen's thrice-repeated failure to close out the game, and tony's unforgivable decision to walk the winning run into scoring position in the 13th inning, loomed as troubling portents. playoff games -- especially on the road -- are often like this: fought out pitch by pitch, with zero margin for error. so it was difficult to watch the cards err again and again in the final five innings -- and all too easy to look forward, to october, and ask: will the cardinals' vulnerabilities prove fatal?

based on what we saw last night, we'd have to answer: they might. they very well might.

isringhausen's blown save was his second in a row against houston, to go along with the blow (also costing mulder a win) in the first game after the all-star break. flash back to last year's playoffs, when izzy lost game 5 and blew a save in game 6 . . . . . do the astros have his number? the answer is: yeah, they pretty much do. taking the last two seasons together (including the playoffs), izzy has a 4.35 era against the astros in 20 2/3 innings, with 4 homers allowed, one loss, and 4 blown saves in 13 attempts. worse yet, when entering the game to protect a one-run lead, izzy has converted just 1 save in 5 opportunities against the astros over the last two years. with a larger margin for error, he is 8 for 8. . . . . .

i'm not trying to ruin anybody's holiday weekend. just being realistic, acknowledging weaknesses where they exist. whatever izzy has done in the past, there's nothing to say that he won't convert four one-run saves against the astros this october. there's nothing to say that ray king won't get his act together and get the job done, either.

but what we saw last night was not meaningless. the game exposed chronic weaknesses that could hurt, or kill, the cardinals in october. and that's why it was aggravating to watch.

pretty good pitching pairing today . . . . .

carp clemens
19-4, 2.29 11-6, 1.51

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The bullpen

eh..nevermind. I'm still too pissed.

by cardsrul on Sep 3, 2005 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah

even if they'd pulled that one out, the bullpen problems would still be worrisome. I was thrilled to see Mulder back in form, but anytime they have to count on King and Tavares, I'm gonna be chalking it up as a loss and considering it miraculous if they come through, which is not how I wanted to view this team going into october.

by rockin redbird on Sep 3, 2005 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

Tony should resist the urge to use the closer when there's a stack of terrific reasons to NOT use him:

the starter, on like 9 days rest, had thrown 93 pitches through eight innings---29 of which came in a poorly played 2nd, meaning he'd averaged just 9 pitches an inning in blowing through the other 7 frames;
the starter had retired 16 hitters in a row---5-plus innings without allowing a baserunner---and 20 of 21;
the 3-4-5 hitters, due up in the 9th, were hitless to that point;
the only two hits that Astros had through 8 innings were two-strike, defensive-swing bloopers---one by Burke fisted off the handle to center, and one by Ausmus flared off the end of the bat to right.
Mulder had his most K's in almost three months, had a breaking ball that was "on," and was clearly in command.

In a 1-run game in which the other team's only runs came in an inning featuring an error, a poor decision on a fielder's choice and two scratch singles, it might make sense to go with what's been working.

Removing Mulder was the worst thing Tony could do; I was watching the Houston feed, and the announcers were speculating on how glad the Astros' hitters must be to have him gone.

Why not allow Mulder to start the 9th? He allows a runner, or two, then yank him. But he'd thrown, really, one of the best games by a Cardinal starter all year, and at the pace he'd established, he could throw a complete game in under 105 pitches.

Tony is at his absolute worst when he over-manages, and I'll never understand his series of moves this year in which he's pulled starters with under 100 pitches who were clearly in command, while other times leaving in struggling pitchers.

It seems like it's about something other than the team winning the game---a win for Morris, or for Marquis, or a save for Izzy.

I understand that, with the big division lead, that maybe you work to get Ray King back in his groove, whatever.

But in a 1-run game when the starter is dominant and still fresh, let him finish. Get the win fisrt, and bring in Izzy for the cheap 3-run save, or bring him in when he's actually needed. There are, and will be, plenty of opportunities for the team to rise to the occasion when they must; It's not doing the team any good to force the issue when there's no reason not to; the results, when bad (Iike last night) are far more damaging than the lost opportunity for "confidence-building" that might otherwise have resulted.

by salvomania on Sep 3, 2005 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed...

TLR has been bizarre in making the call of who stays in and who is done (and when). Maybe Mulder's neck was starting to bother him. Who knows? If something like that was the case, he did what he had to do--save Mulder for another day. I'm gonna give Tony the benefit of the doubt. But if it was a "tactical" rather than a "practical" decision, it's the exact kind of call that will kill us in playoffs. At the very least I hope he's finally seen enough of King to know he's worthless this year.

by rockin redbird on Sep 3, 2005 6:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

excellent post

salvomania. i agree with you that the right call would have been to let mulder start the 9th. at the same time, i think there was a legit case for taking him out. you could argue that is'hausen needed the inning more than mulder --- before last night he hadn't had a save opp in a week, and only three going back the last three and half weeks. you could also argue, with some merit, that it's too risky to push mulder because of his injury status.

i still would have played it as you would, but that decision in and of itself didn't trip my la russa alarm. i look at the sum of his decisions from the 8th inning on and think, as you said: "Tony is at his worst when he overmanages."

he has had to manage his ass off this summer, and that kind of has me worried heading into october. i think he's enjoying himself a little too much, perhaps getting a little too attached to button-pushing and lever-pulling.

at the same time --- if is'hausen had done his job in the bottom of the 10th, wouldn't ev'yone be singing tony's praises for the bunt-bunt sequence in the top of that inning to push home a run off the invincible lidge? i myself would never have played it that way, and i hope tony hasn't decided now to make "bunt the man home from 2d" a regular strategy. but it's hard to argue w results . . . .

by lboros on Sep 3, 2005 6:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually,

regarding that bunt-bunt sequence: I'm a believer in going with the "hot hand" (or "hot bat")--especially if it's one of our big guns, and ESPECIALLY if the big gun is our streakiest big gun, Jim Edmonds. With, already, a homer and a double, I was a little disappointed in Edmonds' bunting Pujols to 3rd in the 10th. We had nobody out, the go -head run in scoring position and one of our best hitters, on a hot streak, at the plate.

I was glad it worked, of course, but I didn't like the move when Tony made it and I felt, in a sick way, "vindicated" when Edmonds hit the homer in the 13th (imagine if he'd hit it in the 10th!).

by salvomania on Sep 3, 2005 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Albert's

heel is bugging him again, according to TLR, and will have to miss a 4-5 game stretch sometime in the next couple of weeks.

by cardsrul on Sep 3, 2005 8:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There -- we got 2 against Clemens

in the 4th -- that feels a little better

by cyclone on Sep 3, 2005 8:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

clemens is out now

with a strained hammy.

by cardsrul on Sep 3, 2005 8:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trying to objective, but...

I'm not sure I understand all the Cy Young hoopla for Clemens. His ERA absolutely rocks, obviously, but again tonight I think his main weakness showed up -- he just doesn't pitch deep enough into games. Houston just pinch hit for him in the bottom of the 5th of a 2-1 game, even though he only given up 4 hits and thrown 73 pitches. Is there a puzzle piece I'm missing somewhere?

by cyclone on Sep 3, 2005 8:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oops, didn't know about the injury

Thanks Cardsrul. I don't think his hammy strain tonight totally negates my point, though...

by cyclone on Sep 3, 2005 8:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the thing is

too many writers have their lips surgically attached to Clemens' ass, so unless he misses a start or two, he'll still get some votes.

by cardsrul on Sep 3, 2005 8:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

And I think too many will use his age as an excuse to explain away the fact that he has averaged almost an inning less per start than Carp this year.

by cyclone on Sep 3, 2005 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i've made this point before

but if you reversed carpenter's stat line with clemens's, there'd be no change in the writers' position ---- they'd still all be supporting clemens, they'd just have a diff't rationale

by lboros on Sep 3, 2005 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

After last night

If the Cards don't score again, does TLR bring in Izzy for the 9th? Carp's at 104 pitches...

by cyclone on Sep 3, 2005 9:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

carp's done

i think they've said they won't let him throw more than 100 pitches til the postseason.

dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas

by Neth on Sep 3, 2005 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

or not.

here he comes.

dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas

by Neth on Sep 3, 2005 9:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That's one way

to avoid bullpenn weaknesses.

by cyclone on Sep 3, 2005 9:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I love

the fire in this kid. I was kinda hoping he'd buzz the tower on Ausmus.

by cardsrul on Sep 3, 2005 9:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If that don't win him the Cy Young

nothing will. Carp's gone head to head with Willis and Clemons. He beat 'em both.

If this thing ain't fixed, then there's no question who the national league Cy Young is. Let's see how the Eastern Sport Promotion Network can deny him now.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Sep 3, 2005 10:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Someone

will use the hammy as an excuse, I guarantee it. Speaking of awards, for those of you who didn't see the game, Horton and Carpenter were talking about the seemingly national push for Andruw Jones for MVP. Horton said he has argued with Joe Strauss of the P-D that the award should go to the player who's having the best year statistically. Strauss' response was, and I'm paraphrasing here, "It's our award; we invented it, so we'll vote for who we want." If that's not a perfect example of the overblown self-importance writers exhibit, I don't know what is.

by cardsrul on Sep 3, 2005 10:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

All right...

I bitched last night, so I gotta heap some praise tonight. THIS is what will win a World Series this year, but we won't have the luxury of Carp hurling every night. So we'll have to count on Matty and Mulder (and Soop too) to do their thang. We're obviously not gonna get there and win it on the pen. Jeez, if Reggie comes back as good as he left--I think I'll live through october. Congrats, Carp.

by rockin redbird on Sep 4, 2005 5:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs