Game 109 Open Thread: August 5, 2005
most fans i know are sick of the braves -- bobby cox, the tomahawk chop, jimmy carter, ted turner, the whole bit. they're even sick of jane fonda, who jumped ship five or six years ago. i gotta say, i'm just the opposite. long live that franchise. their division rivals spend and spend in an effort to catch them, while the braves lose one guy after another to free agency or injury. but they keep winning because they are superior evaluators of talent; they have the best manager, the most resourceful gm, and the most productive farm system. how can you not love an organization like that?
to be perfectly honest, i admire their approach more than i do the cardinals'. we basically have an off-the-rack team -- three starters acquired as free agents (sanders, grudz, and eckstein), one soon-to-be free-agent acquired in trade and retained for free-agent-like dollars (rolen), and one overpriced superstar acquired from a floundering franchise in a salary dump (walker). the rotation has two free agents (carp and supps) and one salary-dump acquisition (mulder). the closer? free agent. setup man? free agent. the only homegrown players with meaningful roles on our team are albert, yadi, and mattmo.
contrast that with the braves: their entire starting infield (laroche giles furcal and chipper) is homegrown. their current outfield (langerhans andruw and francouer) is entirely homegrown too. so is most of their bench. they have two homegrown starting pitchers (ramirez and smoltz), plus a third (davies) who has made 13 starts this year filling in for injured teammates.
those of you who can remember all the way back to the 1980s may recall that, in those days, we cardinal fans took pride in having a homegrown team. seemed like at least half the lineup had come up through the system -- hernandez, herr, oberkfell, forsch, stuper; later pendleton, coleman, van slyke, mathews, magrane, worrell. and there were others -- mcgee, lapoint, dayley, to some extent ozzie -- who were products of other organizations but whom we could claim as our own because their careers took off here; they'd been trapped in the minors or hadn't established themselves in the majors, then blossomed in st louis.
we considered this type of roster assembly to be morally superior to the write-a-check approach taken by franchises like the yankees, angels, and hated mets. those teams simply threw money at problems, while the cardinals had to rely on superior talent evaluation and on-field managing. we earned our success, in other words; other teams tried to buy theirs.
one of those spending-spree franchises back then was the braves,
which 21 years ago raided the cardinal roster to sign bruce sutter to a multiyear contract worth the then-obscene sum of, like, $6 million. sutter immediately got hurt, while the cards rolled to 101 wins in their first season without him -- and we took it as a vindication of the cards' approach. doubly so because our division rivals that year were the free-spending mets, whose lineup included two splashy free agents: george foster and gary carter.
the mets haven't changed -- probably never will, as long as they have to compete with steinbrenner. but the braves and cardinals have switched poles. atlanta now brings guys up through the system; we whip out the checkbook. used to be the other way around.
that doesn't mean i am switching allegiances; no way. but i appreciate what the braves have achieved, and how they've achieved it.
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15 comments
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Hear...Hear....
My only knock against the Braves are their fans. Once had someone explain to me that Atlanta is a city of transients, that everyone there is from somewhere else. But, with them always being on television, you would think that they would draw some fans from the South. (2003 only 14th in attendance and 16th in % capacity. I pulled these numbers for another diary I'm constructing.)
Oh well, that just means I'll have to go there should the Cards and Braves face each other in the NLCS.
Oh and the tomahawk chop is LAME!
by Brock20 on Aug 5, 2005 6:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My ex-girlfriend
Anyway, the Braves have the best farm system in MLB, and have for years, and Scheurholz knows talent when he sees it. Their AAA affiliate, Richmond, is only 2 hours north of me, their high single-A team(Myrtle Beach) is in the Carolina League, and one of the Rookie teams is just south of me in Danville, so I'm well aware of that talent. Sometimes I wonder why the Cards couldn't have gotten some of these guys, and then I realize that it speaks volumes about the two scouting departments.
by cardsrul on Aug 5, 2005 6:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nitpick...
As I say, it's a nitpick... the Braves have done a remarkable job adjusting from the free-spending Turner era to the bottom-line AOL era.
by The Ol Goaler on Aug 5, 2005 7:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know I'm a bad sport,
So, yeah, their farm system is something else, but their fans are a yearly embarrassment to baseball. (What's with empty seats at the NLCS?!)
And, yeah, I'm not being objective. (I still remember '96.) There are only a few teams that I actively root against. The Braves are one of 'em. Man, I hope we beat these losers . . .
by Titus Pullo on Aug 5, 2005 10:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't like the Braves either
I never liked Chipper Jones, who seems like a perfect fit for my perspective of the Braves (i.e. arrogant and cocky.) It didn't surprise me when J.D. Drew ended up in Atlanta, because he seemed like a nice fit as well.
Whatever it is, I get up for games against the Braves like I do for the Yankees. The only team I like less than the Braves is probably Houston.
by rob is back on Aug 6, 2005 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
chipper (larry) jones
Mind you, this hasn't stopped me from chanting LAAARRRYYY! LAAAARRRYYYY! whenever I'm at the game and he's up to bat.
by matty fred on Aug 6, 2005 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he has a good publicist?
by rob is back on Aug 6, 2005 6:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Mulder Outpitched Smoltz....
So maybe Mulder doesn't blow everybody away... he still gets people out, and was one fielding decision (his own) from seven innings of shutout ball. Okay, mayne not "Ace" material, but plenty good enough for me!
Oh, one other thing...
Albert Pujols is the BEST hitter I've seen in a Cardinal uniform since Stanley Frank Musial. PERIOD!
by The Ol Goaler on Aug 6, 2005 12:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was just reading
by rob is back on Aug 6, 2005 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That
by cardsrul on Aug 6, 2005 12:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A few reasons for dislike
- Familiarity breeds contempt - While the game has changed during free agency, Chipper Jones keeps on being a Brave. That consistency is important to disliking a team, as there can be plenty of history and bad memories created in that uniform that aren't diminished with a move to the other league, etc.
- The Careys - Skip, Chip, Zip, Pip and Don Sutton have a style that's easy to find fault in if you're looking for that sort of thing. Everyone can do a good Skip Carey ("Greg Maaaadux on the mound ...") and his son's history with the Cubs doesn't necessarily make things easier on casual fans. Pet peeve - Chip talks using "we" when referring to the organization when this is his first year behind the mic there.
- Good, better, best - It'd be easier to respect the Braves if they made moves that made them the team to beat in the playoffs. The diminished payroll has lead to Brian Jordan and Raul Mondesi sightings before their Georgia high school minor leaguers took their big steps. Everyone respects the coaching, but I would say most people think they needed a few things at the trade deadline to make them a World Series contender, and the Farns isn't it (good complementary part, but not when Reitsma is so untested). It just feels like they'll be happy losing to a charging wild card team again.
by WillieMcGeeModelingCompany on Aug 6, 2005 12:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
way to beat 'em up tonight
I agree that the Braves' success is remarkable this year. Schuerholz (sp?) is as smart and shrewd as they come. No joke, the Kyle Farnsworth acquisition may turn out to be the highest-impact acquisition of the trade deadline. Nobody doubt's the guy has talent, and if anybody can harness that talent and make it productive, it's the Braves' pitching coaches.
Though I haven't picked up a copy of Scout's Honor yet, the reviews I read have been mixed. Several critics consider the book's anti-"Moneyball" arguments to be of the straw man variety.
Still, it's apparent without reading Scout's Honor that the Braves have an excellent and thorough player acquisition and development plan that's followed organization-wide. Pretty damn impressive, especially considering so many wealthier teams like the Mets continue to fall short. Not only could one learn from the Braves how to run a major league ballclub, one could also learn some great lessons on how to run a large organization in general.
by matty fred on Aug 6, 2005 12:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Now that
by rockin redbird on Aug 6, 2005 1:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's hear it for the backups!
by matty fred on Aug 6, 2005 2:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Winning breeds contempt as welll.....
by Brock20 on Aug 6, 2005 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs




















