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dumb and dumber

at least superficially, la russa bears a lot of similarities to george lee "sparky" anderson, whom he tied for 3d-place on the all-time managerial wins list last night. for starters, they were the same type of player -- light-hitting middle infielders whose anemic bats kept them from getting more than a taste of major-league life. both became managers very young -- la russa at 35, anderson at 36. both have managed juggernaut teams in both leagues -- anderson the big red machine and the '84 tigers, la russa the bash brothers and the '04-'05 cardinals.

the similarities would seem to end there. while la russa is viewed as a cerebral dugout presence, "the genius," anderson was often dismissed as little more than a back-slapping cheerleader, a man of no particular talent surrounded by incredibly talented ballplayers. johnny bench, pete rose, joe morgan, tony perez -- i mean come on, who couldn't win big with those guys? whitey herzog and earl weaver were considered the brainy managers of the day; anderson was simply a lucky one.

bill james in particular dismissed sparky anderson's intelligence. well, that's putting it mildly; james considered sparky a dithering dumbass. here's what he wrote about sparky in the 1983 edition of the baseball abstract:

I think that's what drive me nuts about Sparky Anderson, that he's so full of brown stuff that it just doesn't seem like he has any words left over for a basic, fundamental understanding of the game. I want to look at a player on the basis of what, specifically, he can and cannot do to help you win a baseball game, but Sparky's so full of "winners" and "discipline" and "we ballplayers" and self-consciously asinine theories about baseball that he seems to have no concept of how it is, mechanically, that baseball games are won and lost.

in the next year's abstract, james ran elaborate boxes analyzing all 26 big-league managers. he described anderson, somewhat dismissively, as "an emotional leader. . . . . He's an optimist, a salesman. He's always trying to build up his players, make them see what they are capable of." by contrast, he fawned over the analytical mind of up-and-coming tony la russa, who had just won his 1st division title (for the 1983 chicago white sox):

  • He's a problem solver, a man who reacts strongly to perceived weaknesses and tries to take corrective action.
  • He rotates his personnel quite extensively. . . . . If they'd let him carry 30 people, he'd use them all.
  • [He] made a unique, gutty and productive decision to bat [Carlton] Fisk second, for which he deserves all the credit he has received. Too many managers would have intoned "bat control" and batted [Julio] Cruz or Vance Law second.
  • Although he's not as flashy about it as a Billy Martin, his strategy is calculated to play on the opposing team's mind, disrupt them. He probably does that as effectively as any manager in the league.
  • What is his strongest point as a manager? His inventiveness; his hard-working analytical resourcefulness. He's a beautiful manager to watch.

there's much to be amused about here. for one thing, it's funny that the traits once perceived as la russa's strengths are now attacked as his weaknesses: he overanalyzes, overmanages, outsmarts himself. i make those complaints all the time, and i'm hardly alone. yet at the same time we hear the opposite criticism, the same characterization made of sparky anderson -- he manages on emotion, becomes too loyal to his ballplayers, lets his heart get in the way of his head. i and others lodged that very criticism just this month, re tony's baffling (mis)handling of jason marquis.

so, to sum up the brief against tony: he's simultaneously too brainy and too sentimental. well hell, how many managers are capable of that?

i think that as a manager ages, he naturally comes to be seen as dated, an old fossil whom the game has passed by. in 1984 anderson was viewed as a dottering old ignoramus, completely clueless about the emerging new "science" of baseball, sabermetrics -- then in its nascence, understood only by earl weaver and the bill james readership. today sabermetrics has reached an even wider audience thanks to moneyball, and la russa -- whom james back in 1984 considered a cutting-edge manager who "got" sabermetrics -- is now positioned as a hopelessly clueless old-schooler, a representative of the entrenched old order that billy beane, theo epstein et al are in the process of toppling. indeed, tony seems to view himself in this light; 3 nights in august goes out of its way to rebut some of the ideas espoused in moneyball.

in truth, la russa simply represents one of the few baseball principles that all generations -- pre-sabr, post-james, post-moneyball, whatever -- can agree upon: the more games a guy manages, the stupider he gets. but wait -- the same year bill james mocked anderson as a hopeless dolt, he led the tigers to 104 wins and a world championship. so perhaps tony, having arrived at sparky anderson's win plateau, is now finally dimwitted enough to win another world title.

in any case, congratulations mr la russa; long may your idiocy reign, and we st louisans bask in its dull reflection.

0 recs  |  Comment 16 comments

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HA!
Great post, lb. I was wondering when you'd weigh in on Spike's TLR diary. Shoulda known you were saving up for a daily. Yeah, it is funny how perceptions about guys like Tony change over the years. Here's to him Elmer Fudd-ing his way to another WS championship this year!!  

by rockin redbird on Aug 25, 2005 11:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not Taking the Stairs...
According to the KC Star... Matt Stairs is about to re-up with the Royals for another year. I thought that was a viable option as well... but it's looking more and more like we're going to October with players currently on our roster.

by Matt on Aug 25, 2005 11:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

According to
the SD Union-Tribune, the Cards tried to acquire Brian Giles on Wdenesday night.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/20050825-9999-lz1s25padres.html

by cardsrul on Aug 25, 2005 12:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wow
quite an improvement on matt stairs!  i wonder how much the padres want.  i wouldn't mind throwing marquis in there as part of an offer ...
matty fred is a weblog.

by matty fred on Aug 25, 2005 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Give them
what they want (within reason, of course). Giles would rock!!

by rockin redbird on Aug 25, 2005 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's my question...
Who do you want to manage the Cardinals?  or more exaclty, Do you want TLR to be the manager of the Cardinals?
Forget statistics for a minute and think about it, what you watch him do every night.  I have often asked myself this question.  The love/hate relationship that STL has with this man is incredible.  I feel as though few people would give a straight yes or no answer to this second question.  What I see is a man who has committed his life to the game.  That does make him sllightly antiquated (i mean look at the guy's uniform), but it also makes him someone who is respected by a number of players.  Tony knows he has had great teams behind him (look at his comment in today's PD: "The only difference between Jim Leyland and (former Minnesota manager) Tom Kelly and Tony La Russa is that I've never been in a situation that hasn't been ideal to generate wins,").  He is dedicated to his players, as a manager should be.  It is his job, to some extent, and that of the GM to be the "bad guy".  Personally, I watch Tony and I like what I see.  The suicide squeezes, the pitcher batting 8th, and while i don't love the crazsy line-ups, this guy tries to win.  Sure, all managers try to win, but I like the chances he gives us, I like his approach.  Again, this is really with statistics aside.  I'll take too brainy AND too sentimental.  Call me silly, but there isn't anyone else I would want managing this team, and I hope he stays with us for another few seasons to come.

by sdelek on Aug 25, 2005 12:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

his unrelenting focus
toward winning every game is what i like about tony.  often times, i think many managers (like many players) will go mentally adrift during a season.  it seems tony never loses his focus, and that this example carries over to the players as well.
matty fred is a weblog.

by matty fred on Aug 25, 2005 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i have come around
on tony, sdelek. i now accept him unconditionally, with all his foibles. i accept him even though i sometimes disagree violently with his in-game decisions, lineup moves, handling of pitchers, etc etc. for a number of years i couldn't get past those disagreements; now i can. now i can appreciate and accept him for what he is, for better and for worse. he has given us some special years, and i appreciate him for that.

by lboros on Aug 25, 2005 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto
I'm one of the few Cards fans, it seems, that has liked TLR from the beginning. I had always admired what he had done with Chicago and Oakland, so when he was hired, I was thrilled.
Now, I have not always been pleased with some of the moves he made, but I never waivered in my support for him.

by cardsrul on Aug 25, 2005 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes again
I have no problem answering "yes" to the second question. I've always liked LaRussa. The discussions over his coaching abilities have always amused me, even though I certainly understand why some would question him; it goes with the territory of being an unconventional coach.

by rob is back on Aug 25, 2005 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the crazy moves
one has to remember that the guys has been in a position, almost all season long, to experiment. he can take liberties with the lineup without being too severly questioned because we've got a 10 or 12 game division lead. not that those can't disappear, but you're a bit more ready to relax and just see what happens when you try an oddly timed bunt, or an odd lineup.

and, if we win even a single playoff game on a suicide squeeze...tlr looks like a genius. because those are not automatic, and now the cards have more practice than anybody.

i think he's great. perfect? nope. but nobody is. i will be sad when the tlr era ends in st louis, and i hope its because he's retiring because i'd rather not have him running someone else's team.

dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas

by Neth on Aug 26, 2005 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

San Diego
writer made an error in his story. Apparently, he meant to say last "month" and not last "night". Kinda makes more sense now...

by cardsrul on Aug 25, 2005 1:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tony La Russa
Tony's passing of Sparky Anderson in the managerial win list has naturally spawned comparisons between the two, but I would suggest that a better comparison would be between Tony and the most recently successful Cards manager, Whitey Herzog.  They may seem very different in their approach to the game, but let me point out some strengths that they share.

First, they both focus ahead in the game.  They can anticipate situations several innings ahead, and plan their moves accordingly. Secondly, both are very astute at putting their players, especially those with more limited talents, into situations that give them the best chance to succeed.  Both are/were rewarded with production from "role" players.  Third, they excel at tailoring tactics to the skills of playing personnel available.  Whitey played the running game Coleman, Smith, etal.  Tony played to power last year with that great lineup.  This year with so much power on the dl, he has gone to hit & run, squeeze, etc. It would be interesting to speculate how each would manage the other's roster. Fourth, neither is/was afraid to do the unusual, to violate the norms, no matter how much chatter followed on the talk shows. And finally, and perhaps most important, both were able to develop the loyalty and appreciation of their players.

by oldbirdwatcher on Aug 26, 2005 12:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

excellent points re whitey
here's another similarity, which especially applies to this season: their teams seem to be greater than the sum of their parts. other than chris carpenter and al reyes, no 2005 cardinal is performing way above his career norms; on the contrary, most of them are way below thanks to injury and/or age. yet the team is still 1st in the league in era and 2d in runs scored. another way of putting this might be: they play very intelligent situational baseball.

by lboros on Aug 26, 2005 7:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ummmm...
OK, You can have Dusty Baker. Please.
I'll take sullen La Russa, and I'd let him spay cats between innings.

Deal?

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 27, 2005 12:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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