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rumor time redux

just had my attention called to this diary entry, posted wednesday night ~10 pm central:

The Cards are trying to work out the details on a trade that would send Jeff Supan, Jason Marquis, and two pitching prospects( Wainright/Lambert)to the D-Backs for Javier Vasquez and two prospects. One of the prospects is believed to be one of the D-Backs top OF prospects, Carlos Quentin. The Cards believe Quentin can fill one of the corner OF spots that they currently have open and can platoon Johnny Rodriguez/So Taguchi in the other. My source also says that the Cards would then try to convince Matt Morris and Mark Grudzielanek to take a little less than market value to come back( which is what both players would like to do any way).

i've e-mailed pzonehitter to see if i can learn more about the source(s) of his information; until then, my judgment's suspended on whether or not this is credible. i can at least say that this post is consistent with what i heard from a good source yesterday, viz.: "the cards have interest in acquiring vazquez, possibly in a deal that includes carlos quentin."

Update [2005-12-8 1:57:28 by lboros]: i have heard back from pzonehitter. he purports to have heard about this from somebody who is in a position to have direct knowledge of it. i have asked his permission to reveal the job description of said individual; am awaiting an answer. in the meantime, i can at least share with you part of pzonehitter's reply:

Evidently the Cards had interest in Quentin last year and talked to the D-Backs about a possible trade at the trade deadline that did not involve Vasquez. My source says that Quentin, not Vasquez, is the key to this proposal. They like Vasquez but don't know if they can sign him long term. They think that Quentin could become Pujols II. They're that high on him. As far as the prospects are concerned my source suggested that Wainright and Lambert had been talked about but there were others that he felt the Cards would be willing to dangle in order to make a deal( Pomeranz / McCormick / ???? ). Cards originally tried to send Marquis-King-Wainright. Didn't work for D-Backs. His info about Morris and Grudzielanek was based on his understanding of "Plan B" after missing out on Burnett.
i am not entirely sold yet, but i also have no specific reason to doubt this person. his information is consistent with things i have seen/heard both in print and from top-secret sources. so my judgment remains suspended --- not ready to commit to this yet, but definitely listening attentively.

Update [2005-12-8 2:37:6 by lboros]: pzone would prefer that i protect his source's identity; suffice it to say that this individual is a baseball professional. pzone also added this: "The Ray King trade (see below) makes sense because in the original discussion with D-Backs, King was included to dump salary, among other things, to help make room for Vasquez 11.25 mil per year. It also may mean that Quentin is out of the picture since Bigbie was acquired. May be bad news for the Vasquez deal."

i would certainly hope not. if indeed the cards are pursuing this trade --- and while pzone seems very credible, i still can't commit to this rumor just yet --- it would be a shame to drop the initiative for larry bigbie's sake. bigbie is 28 and still not a proven everyday player; quentin will be 23 next year and raced thru the minors in only two seasons. he has a very high ceiling. my hope would be that bigbie has been added to provide depth, and that the purported blockbuster remains an active pursuit.

that ends the update --- back to reg'lar post. . .

baseball america rates quentin as the 3d-best prospect in the diamondback system. he's an outstanding defender with good power and excellent strike zone judgment. baseball america also rated him the 7th-best prospect in the pacific coast league (anthony reyes ranked #11 on that list). the 2006 top-100 prospect list hasn't been issued yet; he ranked #22 on the 2005 list, and #16 among the hitters.

his short minor league career has been very impressive. but read those triple-a numbers carefully -- he posted them in the thin air of tucson, which inflates offensive numbers in much the same way that denver does.

this is a tantalizing possibility; will update if/when i get some more info on the sourcing.

Update [2005-12-8 1:7:1 by lboros]: ray king's gone: "The Rockies acquired left-handed reliever Ray King from the Cardinals for second baseman Aaron Miles and outfielder Larry Bigbie. King went 4-4 with a 3.38 ERA in 2005 for the Cardinals."

Update [2005-12-8 1:19:38 by lboros]: lord, does aaron miles stink. a .686 career ops in coors field . . . . .320 on-base pct. he does have decent fielding statistics ? 101 career rate2. 2005 salary was $300K; will be out of the league before he ever sniffs an arbitration hearing.

larry bigbie shows a modicum of promise with the bat. in 2003-04 he posted a .790 aggregate ops (352 obp, 438 slg). he?ll be 28 next year. average fielder. 2005 salary was $380K; not arb eligible for another couple years.

Update [2005-12-8 1:26:8 by lboros]: thinking on my feet: miles is bound for triple a. bigbie will come into camp and compete with j-rod for a reserve outfield slot or possibly a platoon starting role. i think he's likely to make the team.

the main point of the trade appears to be clearing away salary space for some other purpose . . . but they might also have gotten a useful player back in bigbie. even at $2.5m, king was overpaid --- flores and ty johnson can handle the LOOGY thing for 1/3 his salary. small move, but a good one.

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Pitching
Jeff Supan, Jason Marquis, Wainright and Lambert for Vasquez and Quinton?  Seems like an awful lot of pitching to give up.  Allthough this Quinton guy has an OBP to drool over.

by Zubin on Dec 8, 2005 12:22 AM EST reply actions  

I don't think
The Grudzielanek part works anymore :)

by bellyscratcher on Dec 8, 2005 12:42 AM EST reply actions  

yeah, that's
fishy . . . . but it's possible the guy got his information earlier in the day, when the cards were still chasing grud'k.

still waiting to hear from him; have some other queries out about this as well

by lboros on Dec 8, 2005 12:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Please, God, make it true...
I hate this offseason. Assuming this could come true, no more. Getting rid of Marquis and Soup would open up near $8 million, leaving us paying only $4 million extra for a potential ace (BABIP problems aside, Vasquez has still struck out nearly a batter an inning his last two years). And Wainwright and Lambert for Quentin is a steal (last year his K/BB was 71/72 in 450+ ABs). Please, God, just give me some hope...

by Bruce on Dec 8, 2005 12:51 AM EST reply actions  

2B
 Cards just picked up aaron miles and OF Larry Bigby from the rockies for Ray King.

by moochavelli on Dec 8, 2005 12:57 AM EST reply actions  

nice heads up
moochavelli --- thank you

by lboros on Dec 8, 2005 1:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Early Christmas Present?
Im with you on this one. Although I do like Soup quite a bit....ship the Marqui asap and bringing Vasq and Quintin to STL will make things look a little better than they did yesterday.
Just remember if your hopes are down...think of the huge smile on molinas face all summer and lets see if we can repeat it again next year. IF THAT DONT WORK hopefully this deal will.
The Year Of The Bird...

by TheEckFactor on Dec 8, 2005 12:57 AM EST reply actions  

HOW MUCH
DO MILES AND BIGBIE MAKE, BECAUSE IM HEARING WE FREED UP SOME SPACE

by alecoholics on Dec 8, 2005 1:17 AM EST reply actions  

How many mediocre second basemen do we need?
We have Luna, Deivi Cruz, and now Miles.  Is there some larger plan here?

I guess Cruz and Luna could play multiple positions, but I don't see how Miles adds anything whatsoever.

by bailorg on Dec 8, 2005 1:25 AM EST reply actions  

As I was typing
Old Busch is now officially a pile of rubble.

by bailorg on Dec 8, 2005 1:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Also...
arbitrations just started. Walt could make up some lost ground with names we haven't tossed around yet. Like who? I dunno. Sounds good, though. Keep. Fingers. Crossed.

by rockin redbird on Dec 8, 2005 3:09 AM EST up reply actions  

All the news is in the P-D
Read Rockin's link.

The Vasquez deal already crashed and burned and we didn't even get a chance to speculate and waste hours and hours typing notes to one another?

Rats. Guess I'll have to go back to work now.

by Red in Chicago on Dec 8, 2005 3:15 AM EST reply actions  

miles
will be ready to come up and fill-in for whatever relic we get to play 2B. His redeeming quality is that his glove won't cost us runs when he's in the field, other than that...

by Ryan Van Bibber on Dec 8, 2005 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

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