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Around SBN: PHOTOS: Mike Moser's Dunk Face Is Spectacular

midday update

here's what i have heard today:

the loss of burnett means that cards may have to consider trading some prospects they would prefer not to have traded. these include lambert, stu pomeranz, and wainwright; brad thompson may also have to be moved. the cards have interest in acquiring vazquez, possibly in a deal that includes carlos quentin; no word on how we pry that coveted prospect free.

re 2b, there is still interest in signing bill mueller to play 2b. i think it's a bad idea, and my reasoning's here. no interest apparently in d'angelo jimenez, which is a shame (see below). there may be some however in willie harris.

they definitely are considering jacque jones; tino II.

while i've got a few minutes, here's one quick prescription. unfortunately it includes the jimenez non-starter, but you can just mentally substitute some other cheap gloveman (pokey reese; bret boone) into that slot:

  1. marquis stays for now; possible trade bait at midseason.
  2. sign todd jones. best remaining pitcher on the market, imo. cost ~$5.5m (gordon / farnsworth money).
  3. sign d'angelo jimenez to play 2d / bat 8th. good glove, good on-base ability; further musings here. cost ~$900k.
  4. see if matt lawton will bite on a one-yr deal with incentives; good obp, could hit play left / hit 2d or 6th (discussion at same link as jimenez above). if dave roberts gets nontendered, he might be an alternative (discussion in last night's post. cost $3m-$4m. goodbye and sincere thanks to reggie.
  5. the phillies need relief pitching and have too many outfielders. start with brad thompson and ray king for jason michaels, then mix-match wainwright, cali, and ty johnson until you've balanced the package. michaels plays rf / bats 2d or 6th. cost ~$2m.
  6. the bench is now set: bennett or hernandez c, cruz and luna if, taguchi and j-rod of. they could always add another left-handed bat (eg sweeney, palmeiro) and let luna ripen a bit more down at memphis.
  7. looper's in at ~$1m; discussion.
  8. the back of the bullpen gets cobbled together from whoever doesn't go in the j michaels trade.
so the lineup is:

eck'n ss
lawton lf
pu 1b
jed cf
rolen 3b
michaels rf
molina c
jimenez 2b

against lhp, michaels hits 2d and gooch plays right and hits 6th.

the pen: izzy closes, jones sets up, looper and wainwright pitch middle relief, king and flores are the LOOGYs, and a replacement player takes the 7th spot.

i could live with that team. it would score runs, it would defend; it would get bounced from the playoffs in the nlcs. but we'd all have fun anyway, right? payroll matrix:

2006 ROSTER MATRIX
SCENARIO #7: POST AJ APOCALYPSE

STARTING 8 BENCH ROTATION PEN
molina c
~$600K
taguchi of
$1m
carpenter rhp
$5m
is'hausen rhp
$8.5m
pujols 1b
$14m
rodriguez of
$350K
mulder lhp
$7.5m
to jones rhp
$5.5m
jimenez 2b
$900K
sweeney 1b-of
$1m
marquis rhp
~$4.5m
king lhp
$2.3m
rolen 3b
$11m
deivi cruz if
$800K
suppan rhp
$4m
looper rhp
$1.5m
eckstein ss
$3.5m
bennett c
$600K
an reyes rhp
$320K
flores lhp
$400K
lawton lf
$3.5m
gall 1b-of
memphis
wainwright rhp
$320K
edmonds cf
$9.5m
schumaker of
memphis
warm body
$320k
michaels rf
$2m
luna if
memphis
lincoln rhp
pumping gas
TOTAL
$45m
TOTAL
$3.8m
TOTAL
$21.3m
TOTAL
$18m
OVERALL PAYROLL: $88m

Comment 42 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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who
would Arizona want for Vasquez? Do we have what it takes to get him?

also, stltoday.com reports beane and jocketty have talked about zito. fool me once, shame on me.....

by erik on Dec 6, 2005 2:09 PM EST reply actions  

Lawton
Didn't Lawton test positive for steroids just before the end of the regular season?

by Robb on Dec 6, 2005 2:15 PM EST reply actions  

Lawton will have to sit
the first ten games of the season... according to the old penalties. I think Walt should jump at this deal... before someone else does.

by Matt @ Viva El Birdos on Dec 6, 2005 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Zito
I don't think Jockety was fooled, personally.  I'd have made the trade.  If they thought (as I did) that it was probably simply a mechanical issue and you love lefty pitchers, why not?

Personally, I don't want Lawton.  

by sdrone on Dec 6, 2005 2:48 PM EST reply actions  

And come on -
isn't there some way we can jump in on the "rip off the Marlins" sweepstakes?

by sdrone on Dec 6, 2005 2:52 PM EST reply actions  

seriously
it's merely my own mad speculation but trading edmonds for Cano and Wang fills two holes (with a top-notch 2B), frees us up to trade a SP for OF help (wilkerson?) and frees up $$ to sign bullpen and other OF help.

by Ryan Van Bibber on Dec 6, 2005 3:01 PM EST reply actions  

edmonds
is a 10/5 guy who i doubt would waive his no trade. he's stated he wants to stay in stl already. i also think he's more valuable then cano and wang put together.

back to mulder/zito...i guess if i were walt i may have done the deal to. who knew haren would be just as good, and mulder had a proven track record, despite his slump. hindsight is 20/20

who do we trade for barry z? i like the idea of getting him....

by erik on Dec 6, 2005 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep...
I'm all for Zito. Doesn't have the fire AJ has, but is a helluva lot more dependable. And PLEASE stay away from Jones. He's got WOF (waste of flesh) tattooed on his forehead.

by rockin redbird on Dec 6, 2005 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Top notch?
Shouldn't you be good defensively to be considered top notch?

by sdrone on Dec 6, 2005 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see what Wang does for us
I see how Cano would be an up-and-coming, power-hitting lefty with a good glove, young, hungry, etc. But he's no Jim Edmonds. So toss in Wang and you've got what, another middling right-handed set-up man? Do we need to pull Cal Eldred out of retirement?

Wang's ERA is 4.0. He was supposed to be a starter, but is instead a bottom of the bench reliever.

The Cards have the ingredients to go for the pennant and WS this year, not in 2008. That is what they should be focusing on. Lose Edmonds and the WS is a pipe dream, IMHO.

by Red in Chicago on Dec 6, 2005 3:15 PM EST reply actions  

On the other hand....
Not that I'm endorsing this but a 4.0 AL ERA could translate into a 3.5 NL ERA.  Which is respectable.

by sdrone on Dec 6, 2005 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

wang's
not a set up man, he's a 5th starter (from the AL) of some quality that you affords you the luxury of trading Marquis.

Cano's 22 years old. With his glove he mustered a rate2 of 97, essentially average, and again, at 22 there's room to grow and develop, esp w/ Oquendo as your mentor. With the bat, the kid put up .297/.320/.458. Bill James predicts he creates 97 runs next year, Edmonds creates 114. Let's emphasize again, Cano is 22 years old, plenty of potential and room to develop, but hardly a bad place to start from.

Via trade you can replace Edmonds bat, with a decent enough fielder in center. The $12M off the books sans Edmonds can be spent on "win now" free agents for the corner OF and bullpen.

Sure we can contend now, but if Edmonds or Rolen goes down (a very real possibility), we're stuck.

by Ryan Van Bibber on Dec 6, 2005 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

To continue the idea...
What "win now" corner outfielders are available?  None of the free agents trips my trigger.

by sdrone on Dec 6, 2005 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

well
they're definitely of the short term variety, but players mentioned before include Jaun Encarnacion, Rondell White, SANDERS, Lawton, etc. They're not great, but depending on needs (Left handed bat, etc.) they're good for a season and the 6 or 7 spots in the batting order.

by Ryan Van Bibber on Dec 6, 2005 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Mulder
Also, Correct me if I am wrong, but Daric Barton is a catcher and Molina is pretty much penciled in for the next 5 or 6 years.  Oakland has talked about moving him to first base and we have a pretty good player there also.

So we would of been forced to develop him into a left or right fielder. Which would have certainly slowed his process to the majors.

Oakland wants a big bat for Zito, something the Cardinals can not offer, but with Jocketty you never know what could happen.

Retire #51

by Retire 51 on Dec 6, 2005 3:21 PM EST reply actions  

barton
has moved to first. obviously that position has been filled. but we could've moved him into a corner of position.

by erik on Dec 6, 2005 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I think a 3-way trade with a whole mess
of pitchers (Marquis, King, Wainwright, et al) involved, possibly plus some cash could pry loose a top-flight starter (like Zito) from somewhere.

Willis may attactive to the Marlins because he's cheap, but we could add cash to the deal so that Florida could buy some more talent of their own. Cash can always makes up for value imbalances.

by Red in Chicago on Dec 6, 2005 3:37 PM EST reply actions  

Typing too fast
on that last post. Sorry. "Willis may be attractive..."

by Red in Chicago on Dec 6, 2005 3:39 PM EST reply actions  

Do you guys
really think Zito is a playoff level stopper? I don't. In fact, he is Mulder with a better curve. I would rather see who is available for trade in July than deal for the current crop of so-called available starters.

by Matt @ Viva El Birdos on Dec 6, 2005 3:46 PM EST reply actions  

Mulder
Mulder had a 2.45 ERA last year in the playoffs. Not the greatest, but certainly respectable.

by Evil on Dec 6, 2005 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm with you
Everyone says Burnett's power throwing is what we need for the playoffs, but I still don't buy it.  Power pitching doesn't always win championships, or Nolan Ryan would have some rings.

I'm not sure I'll ever agree with everyone who is so down on Mark Mulder.  I've heard the arguments, but he still won 16 games with a decent ERA in his first season in the NL.  Yes, he didn't pitch very well in game 6 of the NLCS, but I don't think this level of viciousness would be doled out if it had been Carpenter who had an off-night.

by STLEdge on Dec 6, 2005 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Express
I don't think the argument is "Power pitching = Championship."  I think the argument is "No power pitching  = no championship."  There is a difference.

Oh, and Nolan Ryan has a ring.  

by flynn on Dec 6, 2005 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

power?
Did the White Sox have power pitching in their rotation?  (It's a serious question - I certainly wouldn't consider Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, or Garcia as power pitchers, but maybe I'm wrong.)

by Robb on Dec 6, 2005 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

you have a point
buehrle, garcia certainly aren't power pitchers. I wouldn't really put Garland in that category. maybe contreras given how his fastball is in the mid 90's and his split is so good.

by erik on Dec 6, 2005 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure
Contreras and Garland can consistently hit 94 the whole game, though you couldn't always tell that during the season.  THey stepped it up in the playoffs.

by sdrone on Dec 6, 2005 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

fair point robb
buehrle: 5.7 k/9, 9.1 h/9, .262 avg
garland: 4.7 k/9, 8.6 h/9, .255 avg
fgarcia: 5.8 k/9, 8.9 h/9, .259 avg
cotreras:6.8 k/9, 7.8 h/9, .232 avg

only contreras profiles as a true power pitcher. the other guys have profiles that, frankly, look a lot like matt morris's . . . . .

by lboros on Dec 6, 2005 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I just hope
that Jock and co. aren't in scramble mode right now; it could result in some questionable moves. Mench's name is still out there, but I have the feeling anyone who might want him, would have to take Soriano, too, so that might not fly. Wilkerson looms as a very attractive prospect, but who would Walt have to give up? Would Marquis be enough?

by cardsrul on Dec 6, 2005 3:49 PM EST reply actions  

Thompson
What are the chances of putting BT in the rotation this year and still trading Marquis for a bat; with the option to pick up a starter in July if so needed?

by STLEdge on Dec 6, 2005 4:40 PM EST reply actions  

PS
In this scenario you have King being traded and then King as a LOOGY.

Poor King.  Nice guy.  Sorry 'bout his dad.  Sorry about his blown opportunities this year.

I probably think about this stuff too much......

by cardsnutincali on Dec 6, 2005 9:26 PM EST reply actions  

Millwood
Why are we not talking about Millwood he is the best free agent pitcher on the market who cares if we lost burnett I say we go after Millwood

by fxster on Dec 7, 2005 12:38 AM EST reply actions  

The trade you don't make
can be the best move--an old Branch Rickey aphorism. I am one of those who thinks the Burnett pursuit follows that rule. He has a great arm, mediocre stats, and a poor medical record. Burnett has been a 6 inning pitcher in his best years--our pen doesn't need another starter like that. 55M/5yrs is a huge gamble in light of his history. I am more relieved than disappointed that Jocketty wouln't go that far.   Rickey's advice could turn out to apply to trading Marquis as well.  He has shown flashes of willingness to listen to Duncan--if he gets over his pout about not starting in the playoffs, he might turn out to be good. So let's not trade him yet. If I'm wrong, he can go mid-season. Meanwhile, WJ can focus  on the real weaknesses--the areas that lost the NLCS-- namely offense and resigning or replacing Grudz.

by oldbirdwatcher on Dec 7, 2005 12:39 AM EST reply actions  

Just saw this...
Casey to Pittsburgh. If it goes through, Dunn will move to 1B and stay a Red. Kearns probably stays, too.

by cardsrul on Dec 7, 2005 1:27 AM EST reply actions  

My 2 cents
Burnett cost way too much. Thanks the lord we didnt buy that killer of a contract. Now...I expect Walt to somehow grab Zito (or maybe Willis) and either Milton Bradley or Jaun Encarnacion to play a corner OF. Also, does anyone else remember hearing about how Albert and Miggy Cabrera are best friends in SI? Do you think he'd come here cheap to play with 'Bert?
Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Dec 7, 2005 1:31 AM EST reply actions  

Cabrera?
Pipe dream, but I would, no kidding, pee in my pants.

by bellyscratcher on Dec 7, 2005 1:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep
Ohh...It'd be a pissy pants party if we got Miggy. And, if anyone has been counting, I have now been waiting 25 years to use the phrase "pissy pants party." Not a second misspent if you ask me, either.
Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Dec 7, 2005 1:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Yup
Not to negate the pissy pants party celebration of Miggy, I would be more likely to have that if we got Willis.  I know it is a long shot, but a starting rotation of Carpenter/Willis/Mulder/Suppan/Reyes just looks so damn pretty.

by WiscCard on Dec 7, 2005 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Cano
Anytime Cano's name has come up, my gut has told me it's a bad idea, regardless of how young he is. So I went to baseball-reference.com to look at his stats.

16 walks in 538 at-bats. Even for a 22-year-old, who you could hope will develop a little, that's really really bad. That's Shawon Dunston terrirtory. That's offense-killing bad. You've got to hit with Pujols-level power to make up for that.

I also tend to think that surely pitchers will learn to exploit his hacking and cause his numbers to decline.

So let's let him stay a Yankee.

by levistahl on Dec 7, 2005 8:37 AM EST reply actions  

but did you look
at his "most similar" list at baseball reference? three of them are hall of famers. . . . . you have to factor in his age. a guy who can do what he did at age 22 has a good chance of having a long, excellent career

by lboros on Dec 7, 2005 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

actually
he could develop alot. he's shown improved power, swatting more doubles than ever this year, usually the first place power shows up. With work, and he is only 22, he can develop a little more plate discipline, walking more and not grounding out as much. He's also a 2B, a position not typically reserved for players with significant power. If he gets his OBP up to ~.330 and keeps his SLG and AVG numbers in the neighborhood they were last year, he'll be a damn good second baseman. Make no mistake, he's not the second coming of Sandberg, but a good quality second baseman to man the bag during his career peak. As for the trade, it's not like his bat has to replace Edmonds'. The trade is one of those untying our hands to make the other moves necessary to improve our club. It's not going to happen, but it would be an expedient option to fill our needs for the 06 season and keep us from bankrupting the system for a one year shot at the title.

by Ryan Van Bibber on Dec 7, 2005 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure Shot
And don't forget his most similar player - Frederick "Sure Shot" Dunlap.

Led the league in OPS+.
In 1884.
For the St. Louis Maroons.

by STLEdge on Dec 7, 2005 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

oh and
he's consistently improved through a relatively quick trip through the minors, showing maturity and handling the majors quite well in his first season.

Good head in his early 20s = high propensity to mature and develop further.

If they can develop his glove well enough to make him an avg 2B through age 30, he would be incredibly valuable.

by Ryan Van Bibber on Dec 7, 2005 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

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