happy humbugging
the 2006 team is more or less complete at this point. juancion is the new rightfielder; gooch / jrod / bigbie will share left; and junior spivey (it looks increasingly likely) will be signed to play 2b. if they don't land spivey, luna and miles will platoon there. jason marquis is probably staying put for now, leaving last year's rotation intact except for morris's slot, which reyes or ponson will take. the bullpen still has one opening, which may or may not be filled by felix rodriguez. here's the probable lineup:
eckstein ss
edmonds cf
pujols 1b
rolen 3b
juancion rf
spivey 2b
bigbie lf
molina c
or maybe they bat spivey 2d, with edmonds 4th rolen 5th juancion 6th. when j-rod's in the lineup, he could hit 2d; if bigbie raises his obp enough, he might suffice in that slot too.
here are the 2005 and 2006 rosters, side by side.
| 2005 | 2006 | |
|---|---|---|
| molina | c | molina |
| pujols | 1b | pujols |
| grud'k | 2b | spivey ?? |
| eckstein | ss | eckstein |
| nunez | 3b | rolen |
| sanders | lf | bigbie |
| edmonds | cf | edmonds |
| walker | rf | juancion |
| carp | sp1 | carp |
| mulder | sp2 | mulder |
| marquis | sp3 | marquis |
| suppan | sp4 | suppan |
| morris | sp5 | reyes / ponson |
| is'hausen | closer | is'hausen |
| tavarez | rp1 | looper |
| al reyes | rp2 | fe'x rodri'z ??? |
| thompson | rp3 | thompson |
| king | lrp1 | rincon |
| flores | lrp2 | flores |
| eldred | mopup | mateo |
| jrod | of | jrod |
| taguchi | of | taguchi |
| nunez | if | cruz |
| mabry | ut | luna |
| diaz | c2 | bennett |
to be honest and blunt, i don't see a single position where the cardinals have meaningfully improved. if they sign spivey and he is healthy, he should be a modest upgrade over grud'k; two ifs, but it could happen. if rolen comes back healthy, he'll upgrade 3b, or at least restore it to its former high standards; and molina will probably contribute more with the bat in 06 than he did in 05, so that's an upgrade too. but look at the other side of this: they've lost boatloads of production at both corner outfield positions. edmonds is a year older and fading, and eckstein is due to fall back a ways toward his career norms after a stellar 2005. pitchers no longer will look at the cardinal lineup and shudder.
in the bullpen, the looper-tavarez transaction is a wash; rincon-king ditto. they still don't have a replacement for al reyes, who was their best reliever last year. the rotation has the same personnel, but we can't assume that carpenter will have a 2d straight cy young-type year, nor that suppan will have a third straight career year; he's due to regress. marquis will probably pitch better, and morris's slot we don't know -- if it's taken by ponson the cardinals lose some value; if it's taken by reyes, they gain some.
the cards came into this offseason looking to add power arms to the rotation and the bullpen and youth to the outfield. they did accomplish the last of these three objectives, but at the cost of ability; they got younger but also less productive. they have not achieved the bullpen / rotation upgrades they sought; haven't regressed, but haven't gotten any better. no doubt jocketty will still be out there looking, and if a deal comes along he will pounce; but we prob'y shouldn't hold our breath. the payroll is pretty fully committed; moreover, jocketty has only made one trade since the mulder deal 12 months ago -- king for bigbie / miles.
for those of you calling me a grinch -- and i strongly object to that, by the way; i consider myself much more of a scrooge than a grinch -- here's a perspective you'll prob'y like up to a point: i still think this looks like a playoff team. the cardinals have a strong lineup core and a very good rotation, and they play with intelligence and intensity. i thnk they're prob'y a 90- to 95-win outfit even if they don't make any other changes.
what i do not see, however (bah humbug), is a championship team -- not unless they make another couple of impact acquisitions. you can disagree w me, and feel free to, but i look at it like this: the 2004 team got swept in the world series, and the 2005 team got outclassed in the nlcs by a team that went on to get swept in the world series. as currently constituted, the 2006 cards do not improve upon those standards; we're going backward.
i'm gonna let this be the weekend discussion thread. a scrooge i can't help but be, but i can say: merry christmas, happy hanukah to all, and may 2006 bring you health and prosperity.
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59 comments
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what i think is going on
by cards4ever on
Dec 23, 2005 3:03 PM EST
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Spivey is a Cardinal
by erik on
Dec 23, 2005 3:23 PM EST
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nice job erik
by cards4ever on
Dec 23, 2005 3:28 PM EST
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Spivey
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2270028
------
The Cardinals said Spivey would compete for the second base job, which was vacated by Mark Grudzielanek's departure, with Aaron Miles and Deivi Cruz. Grudzielanek signed a free-agent contract with the Royals this offseason.
"With Spivey, Miles, and Cruz, joining our team this offseason, we feel that we have a number of strong candidates not only for second base, but also for needed depth off the bench," Jocketty said in the release.
------
Why no mention of Luna being in the mix at 2nd? Have the Cards soured on him for some reason?
by mikedallas23 on
Dec 23, 2005 4:43 PM EST
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Perhaps they
by Valatan on
Dec 23, 2005 5:41 PM EST
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Tejada to the
by punchinjudy on
Dec 23, 2005 3:39 PM EST
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If Hendry does it
by sdrone on
Dec 23, 2005 3:46 PM EST
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mlbtraderumors.com
by cards4ever on
Dec 23, 2005 3:51 PM EST
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Brewers
by sdangler on
Dec 23, 2005 6:46 PM EST
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The Brew Crew scares me the most next year
by matty fred on
Dec 23, 2005 7:23 PM EST
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i dont think so
by cards4ever on
Dec 23, 2005 7:48 PM EST
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prior
by punchinjudy on
Dec 23, 2005 4:00 PM EST
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But remember,
by Valatan on
Dec 23, 2005 5:43 PM EST
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johnny damon
by punchinjudy on
Dec 23, 2005 4:01 PM EST
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ha! that's funny!
by matty fred on
Dec 23, 2005 4:14 PM EST
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I'm gonna agree and disagree..
But there's nothing magic that the Birds could have done---save getting another power arm---that would have increased their chances at a title.
In 2004 the Birds were buzzed down by a team of destiny; going into that series everybody thought it could've gone either way.
You inject a healthy Scott Rolen into last October's squad and maybe you beat the Astros. Who knows? It's not like they utterly kicked the Birds' asses. Two of Houston's four wins were by 1 run.
What the Birds COULD use---and what could have used in both the 2004 and 2005 postseasons---was one more power arm in the rotation. They may have that already in Anthony Reyes, and there's always the chance of a deal between now and Oct. 2006.
I would say that among the 30 teams, I can't think of any that have a BETTER chance to be playing in October in 2006. The Yankees? Well, gee, when your two best starters are 42 and 38 and showing signs of decline, I don't know...The Red Sox? They have more lineup holes than the Cardinals do, and the Jays have gotten stronger... and there's no guarantee that the AL WC comes out of the East...
by salvomania on
Dec 23, 2005 4:23 PM EST
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does anyone really think
by punchinjudy on
Dec 23, 2005 4:34 PM EST
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our old friend einar
by cards4ever on
Dec 23, 2005 4:46 PM EST
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Molina as #4...
I'm not nearly as upset by the Cards' offseason as some... I'd like to know just how good the SABR-type predictions are compared to reality. If SABR predicted Johnny Goodbody to have a .900 OPS, how often did John have that .900 OPS? Few ballplayers are as consistent in their production as Albert Pujols.
The Conventional Wisdom (at least from what I see in the Card-Blogosphere) is that Tony/Dunc have a saludatory effect on many pitchers -- changing a "replacement-level" player to something better than that. Is there not a similar effect for batters, or do the Cardinals simply not have this generation's Charlie Lau? (For what it's worth, Hal McRae was one of Lau's bigger success stories with the Royals.)
by The Ol Goaler on
Dec 23, 2005 5:07 PM EST
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87-90 wins
by VanRam on
Dec 23, 2005 5:05 PM EST
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Martinez and E'cion
Unlike everyone else, I'm not too excited about Junior Spivey. I don't think he adds much over the guys we already have.
by Zubin on
Dec 23, 2005 5:11 PM EST
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in case you didnt know
by cards4ever on
Dec 23, 2005 5:13 PM EST
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I didn't know
by Zubin on
Dec 23, 2005 5:57 PM EST
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thats alright man
by cards4ever on
Dec 23, 2005 6:12 PM EST
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Happy Holidays
Thanks for a great 2005. Your blog has become my favorite baseball site.
And to everyone else, have a great holiday season, no matter what you celebrate.
Merry Chrismas; happy Chaunaka; happy (belated)Soltice/Yule/Yalda; merry Kwanza and happy New Year.
by Zubin on
Dec 23, 2005 6:13 PM EST
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CHARLIE LAU LIVES AGAIN
OPS PROJECTIONS ARE SOMEWHAT ACCURATE, INJURIES NOT WITHSTANDING - RARELY DOES A GUY OVERPERFORM HIS PROJECTION WITHOUT THE HELP OF SIGNIFICANT PARK FACTORS...
WHERE THEY USUALLY ARE WRONG IS AN "OVER-PROJECTION" WHERE A GUY PLAYS HURT OR MOVES FROM A SIGNIFICANT PARK FACTOR..
IF YOU WANT TO BE "NON-SABR" ABOUT IT, AND GO WITH SHAMANIST "TRADITION", THEN YOU COULD USE THE SAYING "A PLAYER IS WHO HE'S GOING TO BE AFTER 1500 AB'S"... JUAN HAS CERTAINLY HAD HIS 1500 ABS', AND, AT AGE 29, BARRING INJURY, HIS OPS BY "TRADITIONAL" PROJECTIONS IS ABOUT THE SAME ~ .750 OR AVERAGE!!!
SOME OF US WOULD JUST RATHER BE MORE SCIENTIFIC ABOUT MEASUREMENTS...
by TOLAXOR on
Dec 23, 2005 6:17 PM EST
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Is it just my computer..
It's a little too apocalyptic for me...
by salvomania on
Dec 23, 2005 8:04 PM EST
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pujols factor
by johnstjc on
Dec 23, 2005 8:24 PM EST
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It's not that bad
by herr28 on
Dec 23, 2005 9:28 PM EST
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i still think walt has something up his sleeve
by cards4ever on
Dec 23, 2005 10:03 PM EST
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also
by cards4ever on
Dec 23, 2005 10:03 PM EST
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'06 Edition
by Pokey Joe on
Dec 23, 2005 11:21 PM EST
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no upgrades?
I diagree with lboros completely. $5M/yr is not an unreasonable price for a guy who can be counted on for 15-20 HR and 75-90 RBI. Suggesting that Reggie Sanders, who is eight years older than Encarnacion and will only grow more brittle, would have been a better idea, is nuts.
by Vidor on
Dec 24, 2005 1:13 AM EST
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what's nuts is
juancion has only beat sanders in ops once in his career --- five years ago, in 2000. last year sanders beat him by 91 points. in 2004, by 93 points. in 2003, by 153 points. . . .
no disagreement on spivey and rolen.
by lboros on
Dec 24, 2005 1:39 AM EST
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I think what he means is...
Looking at Encarnacion's hit chart is encouraging though. I count 6-7 doubles/flyouts at Pro-Player/Dolphin Stadium alone that probably would've been homers in old Busch (new Busch yet to be seen obviously).
by joker24 on
Dec 24, 2005 10:47 AM EST
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big fat honkin out there rumor suggests
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2005/12/peter_angelos_m.html#comments
"The source also claimed that the Orioles have had significant talks with three other teams besides the Cubs about a deal involving Tejada. Those three teams are believed to be the Angels, A's and Cardinals."
&
"The main players from the Cardinals would be Tejada and an O's pitcher (thought to be either Bedard, Eric Dubose, Rodrigo Lopez or Jorge Julio) for Mark Mulder, David Eckstein and a prospect.(again the Orioles would have to be able to reach a contract extension with Mulder before the deal is made) The source claimed that while no offer has overwhelmed the Orioles to this point unless the Cubs upped their offer to include both Zambrano and Pie, or the Angels included Ervin Santana, the Orioles would eventually go ahead and make the deal with the Cardinals"
That sounds very farfetched to me, but what the hey, just posting for discussion fodder
by erik on
Dec 24, 2005 10:52 AM EST
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Well, that'd be a nice deal
by Valatan on
Dec 24, 2005 11:10 AM EST
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i dont think it sounds too crazy
spivey
edmonds
pujols
miggy
rolen
encarnacion
bigbie
molina
rotation:
carp
bedard
marquis
suppan
ponson/reyes (if we trade wainwright instead of reyes)
by cards4ever on
Dec 24, 2005 12:53 PM EST
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bedard
by erik on
Dec 24, 2005 1:08 PM EST
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guess what though
by cards4ever on
Dec 24, 2005 1:24 PM EST
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that deal
by DCGreg on
Dec 24, 2005 12:57 PM EST
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because they cant...
by cards4ever on
Dec 24, 2005 1:25 PM EST
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Meh...
I'll check back in February.
by cardsrul on
Dec 24, 2005 11:45 AM EST
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warming to juan
But I am a little more optimistic for the following reasons:
- The deal is backloaded. Walt is famous at this and it sure looks like it continues to work. Inflation does devalue a deal.
- Juan has never been consistently given a chance to be in a lineup every day. If I remember correctly this was due to questionable lineup construction by people like McKeon. And weren't sabr folks always crying for more at bats for Juan over the Conines?
- When you take into consideration typical, peak performance age and a healthy sample size of ABs on one team for a year, 2003 supports Juan's 2005 stats and may indicate more improvement to come.
2003 27 601 19 37 19 .270 .313 .446 .759
2005 29 506 16 41 6 .287 .349 .447 .796
All I'm saying is when you consider age, ABs, and stability, we may have a late bloomer in Juan Encarnancion.
- And Spivey is a great guy to throw in to the 2B mix.
- And Tejada (far-fetched as it may be) would be the best X-mas present.
by demetre on
Dec 24, 2005 12:06 PM EST
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he might be a late bloomer
win the gamble = encar'cion is about league avg for his position
lose the gamble = encar'cion costs the team runs / games.
and the odds do not favor the cards here; most players peak before age 30. encar'cion may be in the minority, but even if he is the best-case scenario is that he'll be a so-so player.
not the kind of gamble that wins you titles
by lboros on
Dec 24, 2005 1:45 PM EST
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Average?
by flynn on
Dec 26, 2005 5:56 PM EST
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salary averages
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2268047
Only the '04 and '05 Yankees have had an average salary over $5mil. Then again, this presumably includes everyone on the 25-man roster, so all those backups making mostly near league minimum surely drag the overall average down.
For the record, I'm with Flynn on this one, I don't think he's making that much more than average, atleast compared to other contracts signed this off-season by free agent outfielders. After all, Kenny Lofton (man I hate that guy) got nearly $4mil, although it was only for one year (he is 38 years old after all, 9 years older than Encarnacion).
by john vb on
Dec 27, 2005 2:34 PM EST
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Everyone seems to be forgetting......
Surrounded by guys like Pujols and Edmonds, theres no reason Encarnancion can't bring himself up to 25-30 HR 80-90 RBI form. He has the talent. A guy like Aaron Miles gets dumped on non-stop on the blogs buthe's carrying what, about a .280 career avg.? They say Colorodo inflates numbers but thats for guys like Walker and Helton who have warning track flies turn into HRs and flyouts turn to gap doubles. A guy like Eckstein who slaps shallow singles would see a lot of his hits carry on out to the right fielder and his numbers would suffer accordingly. A guy like Miles could end up hitting .300 - .320 in St. Louis, Ya never know.
My point is you can throw numbers around all day but the games still have to be played. In a players friendly atmosphere I think Guys like Looper, Encarnancion, Ponson, Bigby, Miles, Spivey, even Rincon(shrug) could turn into solid pieces on a championship ballclub.
Let's give these guys a chance before we start makking nooses and lighting torches. I think we'll all be pleasantly suprised a month or two into the season.
by moochavelli on
Dec 24, 2005 2:13 PM EST
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Easy way to check on that, Mooch:
At Coors.... .321/.355/.394 (.749 OPS)
Elsewhere.. .255/.284/.337 (.655 OPS)
Also, a .289 career hitter who almost never walks (like Miles) and who has little power (like Miles) is not a good hitter---despite the .289 average.
by salvomania on
Dec 24, 2005 4:30 PM EST
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...whoops..
by salvomania on
Dec 24, 2005 7:21 PM EST
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FWIW
Btw, I'll admit that this may not be the best example, because Larry got traded to the Cards in the middle of a playoff push, and probably got a little extra motivation out of that, but still, I think all Rockies players have horrible road stats, and they're not a good predictor of post-Rockies performance.
by john vb on
Dec 25, 2005 1:39 PM EST
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Trades
Mulder/eckstein/prospect (not reyes) for tejada/bedard
so the rotation is:
Carp
Reyes
Marquis
Suppan
Bedard
Ponson
So you have an extra man
Then you trade someone besides carp or reyes for mench (probably marquis since it's been mentioned)
so the lineup would be:
spivey
edmonds
pujols
tejada
rolen
mench
ecarnacion
molina
Carp/Reyes/bedard/suppan/ponson
I think it would give us a great lineup and a farely weaker rotation that would all benefit from incredible offense. Then you sign a good number 2 or a second number 1 in the much deeper 06 free agent crop.
by birdland on
Dec 24, 2005 7:46 PM EST
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well...
by WhackCuzzi on
Dec 27, 2005 1:30 PM EST
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The Players Association
by twobrdz on
Dec 25, 2005 10:35 AM EST
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