Viva El Birdos: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: The Nova Blog for Villanova Fans!

lotza prOPS

if you're not familiar with the hardball times' prOPS system, it purports to control for luck. "When a cylindrical bat hits a round ball lots of funny things can happen to influence the outcome," writes jc bradbury, who developed the system. he continues:

Just because a hitter does some things that normally lead to good/bad outcomes doesn't mean those outcomes will always happen. Good process can result in bad outcomes, and bad process can result in good outcomes. If these outcomes don't cancel out, but pile up in one direction, outcome-based metrics can distort a player's true performance. PrOPS is a tool for extracting the noise from the statistics that we normally find to be quite reliable predictors of run production.

The method for generating PrOPS involves using batted-ball data, along with a few other important factors, to predict the offensive output of players using linear regression. The projections are thus based on the way players hit the ball and not actual outcomes.

got it? if random chance throws a player an extra 10 seeing-eye singles in a given year, prOPS won't be fooled -- it will expose the player's increased batting avg as a fraud. conversely, if a batter is striking the ball as well as ever but just not finding the holes, prOPS will expose that as well.

it's a new metric, hence we're all still learning how far we can trust it; keep that caveat in mind as you read. this morning bradbury posted predicted 2006 ops figures for every mlb hitter who had 130 plate appearances last year. his system uses prOPS as the central factor and also accounts for a few other important factors such as age and home ballpark. the latter is particularly important in the cardinals' case, because we don't know how busch iii will play. (it's suspected that the deep alleys will favor the pitchers . . . . ) bradbury based all his projections on the players' 2005 home ballparks, so you have to mentally adjust for a guy like brad wilkerson, who is moving from an extremely inhospitable hitting environment (rfk) to an extremely hospitable one (arlington stadium).

without further ado, then, here's what bradbury's crystal ball shows:

CARDINALS

alb't .996
edmonds .892
john rod .879
rolen .825
yadi .769
eckstein .742
luna .713
so .704

some items: apparently prOPS thinks rodriquez's performance last year was no fluke; i hope that's right. but perhaps we should be a mite nervous about the prospect of 500 at-bats for so taguchi. i'd happily take the figures posted for rolen and edmonds, especially if health permits them to be sustained over 140 games. as for albert, we're so used to him topping 1.000 in ops that anything below that looks weak. but his number is right up there with ortiz's and manny's and way ahead of a-rod's . . . . which suggests that perhaps all of these forecasts skew a bit toward the lower, more conservative end of the spectrum. there's a linear regression involved in the formula, so maybe the gravitiational pull of the center drags all the high numbers down a few ticks and boosts the low ones up. don't really know; just feeling things out.

NEW CARDINALS

miles .728
bigbie .718
dev cruz .693
g bennett .654

whatever. miles' figure represents what he might do in coors field; shave 30 to 50 points right off the top. if new busch plays as a pitcher's park, shave off a few more. . . . . if he were indeed to post a .728 ops and play league-average defense, at his salary he'd be one of the best bargains in the whole league. bigbie's projection is for camden yards, not coors field; it still sucks, in any ballpark.

EX CARDINALS

reggie .793
la walker .789
mabry .742
abe nunez .717
grud'k .711
ein diaz .693

doesn't that figure for sanders look a little low? i'd put my guess about 50 points higher. which doesn't mean he'd be worth the money he's asking . . . . . the figure for walker is definitely low, seems to me. he could still put up a .360 obp and slug .430 in his sleep; when awake he'd still be at more like .400 / .500. again, i'm not bemoaning his departure, merely eyeballing these figures to determine how much stock i want to put into them. . . . the figures lend support to the decisions not to re-sign grud'k or nunez, neither of whom is projected to outplay hec luna.

COULDA BEEN CARDINALS

giles .829
soriano .820
ma sweeney .803
luis castillo .787
loretta .755

don't forget, the figures are based on the player's 2005 ballpark -- hence brian giles' low number. since he did stick with the pads, we can test the prediction empirically; but if he'd signed with the cardinals, some of his vanished power might have returned. soriano is likely in for a rude awakening at rfk stadium -- the .820 prediction assumes 81 starts in the rangers' bandbox. look at castillo's projection -- and with gold-glove defense to boot. is that worth $5.1 million a year? well, considering that the cardinals are likely to pay the same amount to some outfielder with an ops in the same neighborhood, i'd say so.

finally the most interesting list: guys who are still available as free agents or may be available as trade acquisitions:

MAY YET BECOME CARDINALS

dunn .987 huff .769
griffey jr .912 jas michaels .766
wily mo .895 brad wilk'son .761
abreu .882 jac jones .761
kearnes .861 rich'd hidalgo .760
mench .847 rondell .746
jer burnitz .810 o palmeiro .741
nomar .797 ryan church .735
vern wells .793 graffanino .732
cr monroe .782 aurilia .731
mel mora .781 conine .728
dam easley .774 lawton .713
craig wilson .770 j encarnacion .701
da roberts .684

let's start with the four cincinnati outfielders. remember, they're indexed to g.a.ballpark, so their numbers would sag at least a tad almost anywhere else. but you can let some air out of any of those figures and still have a damn good outfielder. clearly this system foresees a leap forward in willy mo's development in 2006. with the reds having traded casey, it's no longer so obvious that the reds will be moving an outfielder; but per this system, anyway, they all look pretty juicy.

when they're choosing up sides, why is jeromy burnitz always the last kid to be picked? just too boring, i guess -- league-avg production at a league-avg salary. not much upside, not much downside . . . abreu's .882 doesn't impress me in that ballpark . . . .wilkerson could easily beat that projection by 100 points now that he's out of rfk. . . . . man, but this system hates juan encarnacion . . . . richard hidalgo? won't cost but a few pennies, only 31 years old next season, had a .957 ops as recently as two years ago. kinda where ray lankford was in spring 2004 -- but no, i still just can't see it. . . . . most of my scrap-heap favorites -- michaels, lawton, conine, dave roberts -- look awful here. they're all similar players, ie high-obp types with limited power -- could be there's a wrinkle in bradbury's projection system that undervalues such players. or maybe the system is right and they all just stink. anyway, at these ops figures none of these guys would be attractive no matter how cheap you could get them. . . . wonder if there's any chance damion easley still finds his way onto the bench. good power, good on-base ability, veteran presence, can play all three infield positions. waitasecond, scratch him off the list -- he signed with the dbacks, one year / $700K. and the cards are paying a combined $1.2m for deivi cruz and aaron miles????

i'm gonna barf.

0 recs  |  Comment 40 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Ehhhhh....Doubt it
I kinda stopped paying attention after it had Albert's OPS below 1.000 but still read.  He's a hitting machine and I'm going to doubt he drops .60 points.  It's also hard to see J-Rod hitting like that too.  Like you said though, the lin-reg might skew better lower and crappy higher.  I don't know why in the world they would use a lin-reg for that considering it is an advanced statistic.  I guess it just shows Albert is so much better than the rest of the league...

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2005 10:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Pujols and other top hitters
Pujols is such a good situational hitter with such great bat control, that I wonder if some of the base hits the prOPS method evaluates as "lucky" are actually due to Pujols' skill.  I think all of us hear can remember many instances where Pujols wasn't getting anything good to hit from a pitcher, yet still punched a ball opposite field past the 1B and 2B, or pulled a groundball exactly where it needed to go to get past the 3B and SS.  

Pujols seems to be able to do this so much that I think its more than luck, and I think this could be true for many other upper-eschalon hitters as well.  

Then again, I could be totally misunderstanding prOPS.

matty fred is a web log.

by matty fred on Dec 14, 2005 10:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that's a very good insight
i agree with you ---- some hitters can probably make their own luck to an extent, and pujols would seem to be one of those.

i don't think prOPS would take that skill into account and hence would probably underestimate OPS for players in that class.

by lboros on Dec 14, 2005 11:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Pu HAS declined
by 30+ OPS points each of the past two seasons... a similar decline in '06 would put him right around that projection:

2003... 1.106
2004... 1.072 ... (-.034)
2005... 1.039 ... (-.033)
2006... ??????

by salvomania on Dec 14, 2005 11:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols' OBP & SLG trends
It's true that Albert's OPS has declined 30 pt. each of the last two years, but the "internal" OBP and SLG trends appear much more stable.  

Over his career, Pujols' OBP has slightly and steadily climbed upward, while his SLG has been at or around 600.  

Pujols experienced slight drops in his SLG from '01 to '02, and '04 to '05.  (Pujols '03 to '04 SLG was practically the same.)

Concurrent with his SLG, Pujols' ISO dropped from '01 to '02, as well as from '04 to '05.  The two years following each "drop" year were followed by gains in ISO exceeding his previous career high.

Breaking down Pujols' OPS into its two parts indicates his production will at the least remain stable.  I'd go out on a bit of a limb and say his overall trajectory so far suggests that even better offensive years are ahead for Albert.  

matty fred is a web log.

by matty fred on Dec 14, 2005 12:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

'doh!!
Correction: I can't say Pujols' ISO increased after 2005, because that hasn't happened yet!
matty fred is a web log.

by matty fred on Dec 14, 2005 12:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

APu
I think that may be that pitchers are giving him a bit more respect... More walks and less stuff to drive.

by Zubin on Dec 14, 2005 6:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Vasquez off the market...
To the White Sox for

El Duque
Luis Vizcaino
Chis Young (very hot outfield prospect)

by sdrone on Dec 14, 2005 10:34 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

At first glance
to me it looks like AZ got the better end of the deal.
matty fred is a web log.

by matty fred on Dec 14, 2005 10:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's all about cash
Kenny Williams has complained about how much money pitchers are getting this winter.  2006 is a contract year for Garland and Contreras.   Rumor is that Williams has offerred them both multi-year extensions on a take it or leave it basis.   The one that doesn't take it first gets traded.  Rumor has it for Tejada, though I seriously doubt that.

by sdrone on Dec 14, 2005 11:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

J Rodriguez
Robb at random redbird reason did some nice anlysis on the guy a few months back.  If memory serves correct, he thought he could be an 0.800 to .850 OPS guy for a few years.  Personnally I hope he gets a shot.

by Zubin on Dec 14, 2005 11:21 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Scary thing about JRod:
The Birds called him up amid his ridiculous tear at Memphis, and he continued the hot streak with the big club: 7 extra base hits---including 3 of his 5 homers---in his first 35 at-bats.

But then he had just 4 XbHs the rest of the way, in 114 at-bats, for just a .351 slugging pct---which is unacceptable in a corner OF.

by salvomania on Dec 14, 2005 11:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

his career minor league slugging avg
is .460, so he's prob'y better than a .351 mlb slugger; but your point is well taken.

thing is, they don't need j-rod to post an .880 ops. plain old .800 would be fine, at his price.

by lboros on Dec 14, 2005 12:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

j rod
I think JRod is fairly capable, but on a championship team, you can probably only have one guy at that level in your OF.

by VanRam on Dec 14, 2005 12:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Burnitz
According to this, Burnitz wouldn't be a bad pickup for a few mil, but I don't think those stats are true.  Here are his OPS from the last five years  .811(MIL), .851(MIL), .677(NYM), .786(NYM/LAD), .916(COL) and .757(CHC), with a 13yr. career avg. of .832.  Take at least 50 pts. off COL and look at his recent decline and he may put up numbers in the range of low to mid 700's.  Plus with his career .255 BA this wouldn't be someone to slot into the #2 hole infront of AP.  

May not be a bad bottom of the order power hitter with decent fielding for a couple mil though.

by Just Rope Ball on Dec 14, 2005 12:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'll be honest
I thought Burnitz was a positive on the Cubs.   They hated him right off the bat 'cause he wasn't Sosa.  But he never complained, his fielding got BETTER as the season went on, and I thought he was a decenter hitter.

Not that I'm saying I'd hire him, of course....

by sdrone on Dec 14, 2005 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And I dug
the retro way he wore his uniform--looked like a player from the 1930's. Burnitz is no big deal--but I like him better than Jacque Jones (they're basically the same player, so the guy with cool retro-fashion sense is my preference--if we must go down that road).

by rockin redbird on Dec 14, 2005 1:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Burnie
I brought Burnie's name up here about a month ago when I went momentarily corss-eyed and thought he posted that big OPS for the Cubs, not the Rockies.  One thing I pointed out then, and stand by, is that Burnie is actually quite adept in the field.  I saw him play about 12 times in person last year and the guy is not going to give you any jawdropping moments but he always breaks correctly, takes a good route, and makes the proper relay.  Sort of a poor man's Larry Walker.

by flynn on Dec 14, 2005 1:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Best of the Crop
I do think Burnitz would be the best out of the remaining FA OF with "power stats" (included are P. Wilson, J. Jones, J. Burnitz, and J. Encarnacion). Some other "tablesetters" to get on base infront of AP (et. al) could be K. Lofton, T. Long or T. Hollandsworth, but all have less than desirable OPS.  I am a big proponent of the R, L, R, L, etc line-up which most of the players could fill that #2 hole.  I guess I would take any of them for a small salary (plus incentives) since our current lineup is untested full season.  But with todays market this seems less and less likely.  

by Just Rope Ball on Dec 14, 2005 2:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

WHERE'D YOU GET THAT, SALVO
HERE'S WHAT I HAVE FOR J-ROD:

J-ROD:

OPS V LHP: 737
OPS V RHP: 834

OPS IN JULY: 1.039
AUGUST: .693
SEPT: .836

RE: BURNITZ, I'D HAVE TO HEAR WHAT HIS UZR WAS FROM MGL BEFORE THINKING ABOUT HIM IN RF....

by TOLAXOR on Dec 14, 2005 12:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Indeed, an .836 OPS in Sept...
..for JRod, but it was accomplished via singles and walks (not necessarily bad things---but where'd the power go?).

JRod actually had a higher OBP (.429) than SLG (.407) in September, with 7 walks (and a HBP) to go along with 7 singles (and just one XBH, a homer) in 27 ab (35 PA).

If nothing else, those numbers scream out "small sample size"; He got just 6 starts in September (due primarily to Sanders' return), compared to 11 in 13 games after his call-up in July, and 19 in August (when he also had a higher OBP than SLG).

by salvomania on Dec 14, 2005 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How Come?
How come nobody can spell 'Kearns'?

by nohoneyimnotdownloadingporn on Dec 14, 2005 1:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Because..
we're all too busy misspelling Vazquez as Vasquez.  

Hey, for years Bill James insisted on spelling it "Tommie Herr."  Drove me nuts

by flynn on Dec 14, 2005 5:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Do numbers lie?
Interesting that, according this device, a darling of Cardblogs (Wilkerson) and the unchallenged scourge of those blogs (Jones) have the same prOPS.  I'm guessing park effect would bump Wilky's number up some, but I just find it amusing that two players on the opposite ends of the recent opinion spectrum shake out to be identical in an "objective" measurement.

by flynn on Dec 14, 2005 1:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

A good point, however -
Wilkerson had an off year in 2005 - the season that prOPS seem to be taking into account.  From 02-04 Wilkerson averaged .831 OPS and Jones .797 OPS - which included his fluke year of .852 OPS in 2002 - the only year he posted over .800, and he has looked nothing like that player over the last 3 seasons.  

by sdelek on Dec 14, 2005 2:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wilkerson was better than that...
His three year OPS average for 2002-04 is actually .853---a nice margin better than the still-impressive .831 you cite.

by salvomania on Dec 14, 2005 2:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the correction!
You are totally right - don't know what I was doing.

by sdelek on Dec 14, 2005 2:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Wilkerson's
three straight .840-.860 OPS seasons before last year's RFK exprerience hold more water than Jones's one prior season, going on four years ago, above the .700s....

by salvomania on Dec 14, 2005 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You guys rock.
All of these points elaborate on what I was alluding to.  The "objective" objective of prOPS seems to be off the mark, at least in terms of the two guys we're talking about.  Thanks to all for doing the legwork to back up what I was getting at.

On a somewhat related note - I can't say I've ever had a stretch like this, where I hope and hope and hope another team takes a player (Jones) so that the Cardinals don't have a chance to get him.  

by flynn on Dec 14, 2005 3:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

plus the major reason we hate jones
is his price tag --- estimated at $6m a year for three years. wilkerson made $2.9m last year and is not free-agent eligible yet.

even if wilkerson doesn't surpass jones' production (and i agree wtih previous posters, he probably will surpass him), he's a better option because of the money

by lboros on Dec 14, 2005 3:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The White Sox...
continue to add to their world series winning team, and we can't even cut a deal. To me this is embarassing when the world champs are upgrading after they just won it all, and we didnt even get into the world series and probably just need one more big move, and we cant capitalize on what look like bargains

by alecoholics on Dec 14, 2005 3:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

FArm system, baby
THe Sox have TONS of prospects to trade.  Look at all the prospects they've dealt in the last 2 years and they STILL have prospects in their system.

OTOH, a lot of things went well for the Sox this year...

by sdrone on Dec 14, 2005 3:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rodriguez
had a ridiculously high line-drive% last year, fourth highest in the NL for anybody with over 100 plate appearances. (29.2%)

by DanUpBaby on Dec 14, 2005 4:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Would anyone actually want Thome or Vazquez?
Thome is an aged slugger for whom they traded their CF (although they have better CF's on the farm) and Vazquez had 2 good years in his career---both three years ago.  

It's not a bad trade because "El Duque" sucked last year, but they already had McCarthy (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/brandon-mccarthy.shtml) to fill in the #5 hole; I don't it.  In my view, that is a downgrade over McCarthy, especially considering the NL-->AL move for Vazquez.  

Damaso Marte was a very good lefty last year and Mackowiak is a utility man, still no improvement of which the Cardinals would be capable.

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2005 6:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

No....
... he wasn't.   He has been considered expendable since before the season was over.

by sdrone on Dec 14, 2005 9:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rolen
I'm scratching my head at the Rolen projection -- and your comment, lboros, that you'd be happy with .825. In his eight 200+ at-bat season (excluding last year and his rookie year), Rolen lowest OBP was the .846 he posted as a 22-year-old. We're talking about a guy whose last two healthy seasons were .910 and 1.007.

Do we have reason to fear he might still be hurt?  Otherwise, I'd think .875 - .900 would be a much closer projection.

DCGreg

by DCGreg on Dec 14, 2005 9:32 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

If it is linear weights...
then it's probably just a superposition of an awful, injury shortened season with a superb season...

by Valatan on Dec 15, 2005 9:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.
Start posting about the Cardinals »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

Cbs_fantasy_baseball_promo

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Avatar_small
Do the Cardinals need to add another Bullpen arm?
Ozzie_small
VEB Needs a Tagline
Photo_29_small
Rich Hill still has two arms for some reason.
Cardinals_spring_baseball_small
2010: A Baseball Odyssey
Pcb_sunset_web_small
What does the BA Top 100 tell us?

Recent FanPosts

Mizzou_small
VEB Bracket Contest (EDIT: Created)
Veb-adam-yadi-boog_small
Strasburg v. Wainwright - March 14, 2010
St
1985 Don Denkinger bad call photo
74591_missouri_state_small
(Another) Fantasy League
Images_small
Wednesday Morning Fun Fact
Cardinal70-48_small
2010 Cardinal Approval Ratings

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

From foreground left, San Francisco Giants pitchers Joe Martinez, Matt Cain and Brian Wilson run in the outfield during baseball spring training at Scottsdale Stadium in Scottsdale, Ariz., Thursday, Feb. 18, 2010. (AP Photo/Eric Risberg)

SB Nation's 2010 MLB Previews: San Francisco Giants, No Thunder In The Lumber

Milwaukee Brewers' Casey McGehee signs autographs before a spring training baseball game against the Cleveland Indians on Monday, March 15, 2010, in Phoenix. (AP Photo/Morry Gash) +3 updates

Spring Training News & Notes 3/16: Catching Up With Everyone

New York Yankees' Robinson Cano follows through on his 200th career hit during a baseball game against the Boston Red Sox at Yankee Stadium, Sunday, Sept. 27, 2009, in New York. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens) link

Is Robinson Cano A Good Choice To Hit Behind A-Rod?

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Jack_benny_small DanUpBaby

Editors

Images_small azruavatar

Trigun_001_small the red baron

Adam1_small chuckb