Retire Number 51

by Alxfritz on Nov 11, 2005 1:31 PM EST Comment 18 comments

About a month or so back, a buddy of mine (Dave Timpone) asked Derrick Goold in one of his mailbag columns about his thoughts concerning why the Cardinals have not yet retired Willie McGee's number 51.

I know this topic has made it's way around the Internet before and it always seems to generate some good to great conversations. It's also a topic my buddy Dave will simply not let die.

He is now planning on doing (in his words) "instead of a petition - I could do a write up of why I think his number should be retired and then have the next 100 or so pages be random people talking about their favorite Willie McGee memories. Now I have to figure out how to get random people to give me their Willie McGee stories."

So that's my plea, people. If you think that #51 should be flying proudly at Busch III, put your favorite Willie memory in the comments section and lets get this ball rolling!

Poll

Should Willie McGee Have His Number Retired

Yes; he's an all-time great Cardinal

345 votes

No; he was good, not great

43 votes

Maybe; only if you retire Oquendo's, too

38 votes

426 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 18 comments

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Comments

When you think of the Cardinals you think of #51

First I would like to thank my good friend Al for creating this great poll. Hopefully this is just the beginning for my quest to retire #51.
This is not only my greatest Willie McGee memory, but also my greatest Busch Stadium memory, hell its my greatest sports memory.
April 8th, 1997 -- We skipped school to go to opening day that year. We were sitting in the right field Bleachers 2nd Row. The Cardinals were 0-6 going into that game. They were playing the Montreal Expos. Going into the bottom of the 9th they were tied 1-1. With two outs LaRussa sent up # 51 Willie McGee. The place went crazy and he did not let the Cardinal faithful down. He belted a walk-off homerun and sent everyone home happy. That was great, but when Willie was rounding 1st base he pumped his fist in the air and nobody even thought twice about it except for Willie. When they did a post interview with McGee he apologized to Urbina ( losing pitcher) and the Montreal Expos for showing them up. My goal is to get as many stories, quotes, and memories about Willie McGee as possible and send it to Cardinal Management or anyone else that will listen, hopefully getting the # 51 flag waving with all the other Cardinal greats in Busch III.

Retire #51

by Retire 51 on Nov 11, 2005 2:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

WTF?

It's sad that such measures as you mention seem neccessary. This should be a no-brainer for management.

by rockin redbird on Nov 11, 2005 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

good luck

i have some memories in an old post, can share a few more. . . . . will e-mail to ya

by lboros on Nov 11, 2005 4:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Is it

you or Dave who runs http://williemcgee.com/ ? If not, you should definately hook up with them.

by rockin redbird on Nov 11, 2005 5:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Looks like

it's a guy named Daniel Lauve. Here's the link to his personal blog: http://dan.sportshistory.us/ . Sounds like he'd be totally into what you're doing.

by rockin redbird on Nov 11, 2005 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sweet Willie

I saw that site...that guys seems like a hard core Willie supporter. We'll try to get him involved in our campaign.

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Nov 11, 2005 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why Is It

I'm getting an "ESPN special" vibe from this? I'm totally on board, but you can't retire Jose's number until he retires after managing the Cardinals to multiple World Championships.

by bellyscratcher on Nov 11, 2005 6:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I can think of a number more deserving of retiring

16, maybe? Lankford played as many seasons in a Cardinals uniform and was a better player. I'm well aware that he wasn't as huggable or whatever it was that made everybody love Willie, but he was basically the only one worth watching while Ozzie was declining and McGwire was an Athletic.

Feel free to retire both, but retiring McGee's alone would be a joke. Maybe retiring 16 would make up for Lankford being railroaded out of St. Louis on two seperate occasions.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 12, 2005 4:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Curt Flood

would be a far better choice.

Just because people may have warm fuzzy childhood memories of a player is no reason to retire his number.

Willie was a fine major-league player, an All-Star---but the Cardinals have had, what, about 50, 60, 75 all-stars?

A number should be retired if a player is an all-time team great. There are 8 Cardinals players whose numbers are retired, and 7 are in the Hall of Fame. The eighth is Ken Boyer, in the top 10 all-time at his position when he retired.

McGee played the 8th-most games in Cardinal history (77 games fewer than Flood) so he's up there in several counting stats---although not at a level commensurate with his games played: only 11th in hits, 15 in runs.

His rate stats are nothing special: 29th in batting average among players with at least 2000 plate appearances (25th since post-1900), and he's 44th in slugging, behind such luminaries as John Mabry, and he doesn't even crack the top 50 in on-base percentage---even Ken Oberkfell (30th) and Todd Zeile (47th) are in there.

He won three Gold Gloves, but Flood won seven. He won a batting title, but Jim Bottomley---a Cardinal starter for 7 years---won a freaking Triple Crown, and Joe Medwick---a Cardinal starter for 10 years---hit .325 as a Redbird. (Willie had eight seasons with at least 400+ plate appearances as a Cardinal.) None of them have had their number retired.

by salvomania on Nov 13, 2005 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

whoops

It was Medwick who won the Triple Crown, and Bottomley who was a starter for 10 years with a .325 average.

by salvomania on Nov 13, 2005 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ray Ray

I was at the game over the summer when Ray took number 16 down off of the right field wall and he got a pretty nice ovation, but it was nothing like Willie gets whenever he is introduced.

I did really enjoy Ray hitting a home run in his last ever at bat at Busch II, though.

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Nov 14, 2005 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

link to mcgee memories

guys, here is an old post with some mcgee memories, including his 1st big-league at-bat, which i witnessed in may 1982. also a close encounter with willie in the san francisco airport

by lboros on Nov 14, 2005 11:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Nice

Great link, L.

These stories are starting to give me goosebumps, but maybe that's the vodka talking.

My favorite memory is the same as my buddy Dave's...Busch Memorial opening day '97.

That was my Junior year in High School, so there was no way for me to make it to the game (I was proudly born and raised in Peoria, Il) but I remember watching the end of it at my parents house.

It was a Tuesday and I was watching the game out on my parents screened-in porch. It was one of those magically beautiful Spring days which seemed to happen frequently in your youth, but come around all too sparingly now that you're an adult.

I remember Dmitri Young going 2 for 3, and I remember thinking that we finally got a first baseman that is going to stick around for a few years.

I remember Mark Petkovsek stepping in for the young and promising Alan Benes, making me think that the Redbirds pitching staff is so deep, it's obvious that '96 wasn't a fluke.

But what I remember most was Willie McGee coming up in the ninth...old ass Willie McGee...and knocking one out of the park to win the game. I remember running into my mom's office, screaming wildly as we both hi-fived. I remember my father coming home from work minutes later, being greeted by me tumbling across our lawn as I told him that the man whom I had idolized 12 years prior had won yet another game for the Cards. And I remember we were all happy.

Fast forward three years. My parents had split up. I had joined the Marines and was living in North Carolina. Things, obviously, were different.

I was back at Busch with my buddy Nate (a Cubs fan, I should add) and we walked past the Cardinals Clubhouse on the way to our seats. He spots a Victory-Blue Willie McGee jersey for sale in the window and says to me, "Whoa..that's sweet."

As I saw that beautiful baby blue #51, a thousand memories came flooding back to me, none more vivid than that of my family, jubliant on our lawn, celebrating the heroics of my former idol, one last time.

We were happy.

Willie made us happy.

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Nov 15, 2005 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Cub Game...

Where Willie and Ryno went mano y mano. Even though the Cubs won the game, wow...

by cardsrul on Nov 15, 2005 8:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I've got a question:

Why is Rogers Hornsby's number not retired? Did they not wear numbers back then? He won two triple crowns and a MVP, and batted .400 three times as a Cardinal, including the modern single-season record of .424 in '24. And played 2B. Seems bizarre his number isn't retired.

If he really was a KKK member (after a google search, the only place I see the claim made is in blogs), I can't really complain too much. But still a weird omission, considering that Musial is the only other cardinal whos stats begin to compare to his.

by Valatan on Nov 17, 2005 12:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Rogers

I assume that they didn't wear numbers in Mr. Hornsby's day.

Up around the retired numbers there is a flag marking "Rogers", which I have always took to mean that the Cardinals will never again purchase the contract of any player either named "Rogers" or "Hornsby." Much as the same way I assume they will never again hire a broadcaster who goes by "Jack" or an owner named "Gussie."

As far as the klan membership...I've never heard anything about that rumor before, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Most popular (white) personalities (athletes, politicians, businessmen)from the midwest were involved with them. It was almost impossible not to be.

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Nov 17, 2005 2:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

However,

I did find this awesome story while I was researching the KKK thing---some pitcher was throwing to Hornsby, and got enraged at the ump's ball/strike calls. The ump went up to the pitcher and said "Mr. Hornsby will let you know when you've thrown a strike"

by Valatan on Nov 17, 2005 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs