ghosts and punching bags.

by Valatan on Sep 26, 2007 11:01 AM EDT in News Comment 106 comments

Wouldn't it have been much easier for us to have seen these games against the Brewers back in August? To have been able to abandon all hope of the postseason a month back, rather than a few weeks ago? Eh, I guess it was fun to forget how horrible this season has been for a little bit.

During last night's game, the ladyfriend suggested that, in addition to the standard bobblehead nights, that the Cardinals should open next season with a commemorative Kip Wells punching bag handed out to the first 20,000 fans entering Busch opening day next year. I'd like a variety pack, including all time favorites such as Wells, Ricky Bottallico, and everyone's favorite cuddly bear, Jason Marquis.

The Brew Crew at least gets to keep its elimination number at four with five games left to play. It's still a longshot, but it seems like the Cardinals are doing everything they can to get the Brew Crew back in contention. They just slaughtered our two best pitchers in the first two games of this series. We'll see if WonderBrad can do any better tonight.

As for this season, I've seen much analysis expressing happiness that it is over, and that we no longer need be subjected to this exasperating insanity. I can't say that I completely disagree, but at the same time, I got a certain level of enjoyment out of this season--we got to see some players emerge, a few fun series, and to see a team really grit through a nightmare of a season. I would have to think that, if the front office gets them the guys to compliment the roster's core, that the guys who survived this season will be hardier and better for wear. Change is likely brewing this offseason, but for now, I'm going to at least appreciate the ghost of the 2004 Cardinals that we are still trotting out there.

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I found this at Bleed Cubbie Blue...

shield your eyes.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 26, 2007 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

HAHAHAHAHA

Awesome. Those will be completely useless in 6 days!

As far as these games a few months ago, nah. I'm glad the Cardinals hung around as long as they did. In reality, I wonder just how much further they would have gotten a) without the HGH story b) without shutting Scotty down.

The starting pitching wasn't THAT terrible over these last few weeks, the team just seemed shell shocked after blowing leads against Arizona and Chicago.

I'm glad we are laying down for the Brewers. The Cubs need to 'check' towards their ideas of spending. When they fail again this year, how will they find a way to blame Dusty Baker?

People say it's a longshot for the Cubs to lose the division. I disagree. It's a longshot for them to win it. 6 straight games on the road, against 1 team that they can't seem to be (cincy). The Cubs are a franchise that has a tenacity for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I don't think it's a longshot at all for a team that is barely above .500 to lose 6 straight games and not finish in first in their division.

Conversly, the Brewers are a team that isn't great, but at home, they posted almost a .700 winning %. They play 6 straight home games.

I can see a 1 game playoff or Chicago losing this thing outright.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 26, 2007 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's the cubs' division to lose

2 games up with 5 to go. . . wasn't that the lead the Cards came within an eyelash of blowing last year?

let's assume that the Cards lose tonite . . . that means the Brewers could win three of four this weekend at home, and get the one-game playoff if the Cubs simply play at the level of their road record for the year (i.e., by going 2-3 in their last five)

by tdawg on Sep 26, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The 1 Game playoff would be @ Wrigley right?

I think I remember it going

Cards @ Brewers
Cubs @ Cards
Brewers @ Cubs

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 26, 2007 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no doubt...

I have to keep reminding my Cubfan friends that they haven't even won the division YET, much less the World Series. They seem under the impression that the division is in the bag and thus the WS is too. It's "their turn," don't ya know? Like that will mean squat to the Red Sox or Yankees or whomever they play IF they make it that far. I'm rooting for The Crew to make it a moot point by sunday anyway. If not, it will be even more soul-rending for them to get just close enough for another taste, only to watch the whole enchilada get flushed down the toilet. Again. Yep, a repeat of '03 will suit me just fine. But a Brew Crew upset would be even better. Either way, I'm looking forward to the sea of blue-hatted, moist eyed, suicidal zombies soon enough.

by rockin redbird on Sep 26, 2007 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Buying them is one thing

. . . posting pictures of them is entirely another.

I mean, c'mon, I understand the meaning of hope, I registered for the chance to purchase Cardinals playoff tickets earlier in the month, but seriously . . . the only Cubs fans who post a picture like this are those who don't understand the implications of Armageddon and hell freezing over all at the same time.

TSF

by TedSimmonsFan on Sep 26, 2007 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously

Did 2003 teach them nothing? Time will tell.

by cardsgirl95 on Sep 26, 2007 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going to the game tonight...

with a friend of mine who is a Brewers fan. While we have friendly competition between the Brewers and Cardinals, we can always agree on how much we hate the Cubs.
I have decided to don a dual outfit of Cardinals hat and Brewers shirt. Kind of the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenario.
It is with a heavy heart, and hopefully the only time I will ever say this again, "Let's Go Brewers!"

"Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer." - Ted Williams

by WiscCard on Sep 26, 2007 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Deadspin

The photos were posted to Deadspin -- see this entry.

by holden on Sep 26, 2007 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm confused as to what month it is

Is it october? heh

by sdrone on Sep 26, 2007 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

End of the road

I was driving down to the beer store yesterday evening and had some Radiohead going in the CD player. I thought about turning the game on, but said to myself "They're already losing 4-0, why bother?" Then I thought "A week from now, I won't have the option to press a button and listen to Shannon ramble on about god knows what."

So I flipped on the radio, rolled down the windows, and enjoyed a few last fleeting moments of summer.

This season may have sucked, but come January, I'll probably be missing it.

Well, let's go to the old mill anyway -- get some cider!

by Alxfritz on Sep 26, 2007 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I will

probably be missing it by November. No baseball makes for a long winter. Thank God for the Caribbean Series in February. I bought the off-season package from MLB.tv just so I could watch live baseball in the middle of winter. It gave me a break from watching the DVDs of the World Series.

by cardsgirl95 on Sep 26, 2007 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't even live in STL

and I need a freakin break

by templetown on Sep 26, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baseball diversity

Over on BP they have an interview with two baseball execs that won't be named. During it they talk about some interesting topics but biggest of all is why there aren't more minorities in the industry.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6751

One small quote that shows what they think causes it:
"GH: Sure. If I recommend or introduce a bozo, then I take a credibility hit. The communication network is more complex than that, too, as you know.

AL Exec: So the team adds someone great, but the diversity isn't there.

NL Exec: And think of how many people there are like you, making those calls, passing on resumés, IMing about how great someone is. You're not even an insider, but you can get an ear of someone. Think of how many people there are in your shoes. We get calls and resumés and lunches out with agents, sports information directors, people from other teams, broadcasting teams, local sportscasters, radio guys...it never stops. And most of the time, they're pushing a pretty well-qualified white guy."

They make an interesting point, there are more white males in baseball then anything else, most white males have white males as friends thus they will recommend the friends and their kids for jobs and the diversity never comes. The AL guy hits it out of the park with his final statement on it:

"AL Exec: I think that if there's going to be progress made on that, it's going to take a considered, planned effort, really. We really do try, but as I said earlier, that takes time, and it makes it more likely that you'll make a bad hire, because you won't necessarily have someone vouching for someone."

I never looked at the diversity problem in baseball as a front office issue until now, it really is much more complicated then I had seen it before. Also included in this interview is a brief discussion on Bonds and top front office jobs for 2007, seems Cleveland or Arizona may have been the best from their views.

by StLHugo on Sep 26, 2007 11:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not just baseball where you see this

I would say that (at least with regards to minorities) most white-collar professions are this way.

"Well, no one's perfect. Only one guy was ever perfect, Jack, and they nailed him to a tree!"

by lightbulb on Sep 26, 2007 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

regarding the frustration of this season

What I have enjoyed is, even in their down season, we still had playoff hope for the Cardinals as late as September 7 (1 game out). Even 6 days later, at the beginning of the Cubs series, 5 games out was not insurmountable, though the losing streak leading up to it had pretty much shown they weren't up to the task.

They weren't done in June, they weren't done in July, they showed flashes of being done in August, but they were in it into mid-September, in what was really a bad year.

What other teams in our division can say that when they have bad years (cough, cough, 66-96, cough, cough)?

TSF

by TedSimmonsFan on Sep 26, 2007 11:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

this season definitely held my attention. I enjoyed the drama the team gave us by fighting even after they were eliminated. The last Astros game was one of my favorite all year.

They seem utterly exhausted now--throwing arms going left and right, errors piling up, base runners who are limping (or even walking). I wish, for their sake, the season could have ended at home with the last Astros game.

Right now, I'm mostly concerned about our pitchers and position players getting hurt because they are WAY overextended. I wish we could call up more Memphis players and let them finish out the season. Give them practice. Give our guys a well deserved rest.

by nycardfan on Sep 26, 2007 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cubs curse renewed

Oh will they ever learn?

by mischief on Sep 26, 2007 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Punching bags

What I actually said, Valatan, was that they should sell the punching bags in order to make up the money that they lost in Kip Wells in order to get themselves a better pitcher. But I digress.

by mischief on Sep 26, 2007 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A half-baked pennant race is better than no race

I will always take the season with some hope over the one with no hope. So we didn't get in the playoffs this year. We've had a darn good run.
After we were eliminated, the home finale basically satisfied me for the remainder of the season.

by bailorg on Sep 26, 2007 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I know the whole Kip Wells

punching bag thing is said in jest. But I wish we didn't hate so much players who obviously tried to do their best, but for some reason--whether it be psychological or physical--have failed.

I mean Wells did not have the attitude problems Marquis had. From all accounts, he was an extremely well liked person in the clubhouse. Everyone was pulling for him. And it sounded like this year was dreadful for him because he knew he was failing the team and he was failing himself. I know there's lots of resentment that we paid him 4 million dollars. But we paid Mulder a lot more than that. Do we want Mulder punching bags? Or how about Anthony Reyes punching bags? Or, Jimmy lost us quite a bit of money. Maybe we could get a hot-selling Jimmy Ballgame punching bag.

Again, I know it's said in jest. But these are good guys who tried their best but were unsuccessful this year. I'd rather not take out my frustrations on them, even if the envisioned "punches" are all in good fun.

by nycardfan on Sep 26, 2007 12:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

YOU ARE ALL BAGS OF DOUCHE

N better than White Sox fans - more concerned with the other guy than with yourselves. The Cards tanked - seemingly voluntarily! One year later and you're this bad? C'mon - you had an outside chance as recently as two weeks ago.

I hope that new stadium implodes with all you screws in it. Cuck the Fardinals and everyone else in St. Lousy, Misery.

by lovejones72 on Sep 26, 2007 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

don't feed the trolls

by jeff abs on Sep 26, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

WAA WAA WAA

Stick up for yourselves! Once the Cards were done you should have moved on to worrying about the Rams. Another complete set of chokers.

Later rednecks!!!

by lovejones72 on Sep 26, 2007 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

baby bears

The Cardinals have more CHAMPIONSHIPS than a bear has paws; 6 more to be exact.

chokers, eh? I would venture to say that the Cubs have had 98 years thus far, soon to be 99 after this NLDS. 100 will come next year when that huge payroll doesnt pay off. Enjoy the losses, you know you're used to it.

Oh how wonderful it will be when the offseason comes. Lets sign some guys and get back to respectability in the NL Central!

by yer dog first on Sep 26, 2007 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am no Rams apologist

Actually, a Raiders fan (shudder).

But the Chicago Bears have Rex Grossman as their quarterback. Actually, wait, they replaced him with Brian Griese, who we all know is a world-class quarterback. Good luck beating the Packers, ya ass.

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 26, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow

looks like you've said all there needs to be said about Cubs fans....thanks for going the extra mile and showing us how loathesome and whiny you really are. hope you get swept in the NLDS all the best, carolinacardinal

foot soldier in the memphis mafia.....

by CarolinaCardinal on Sep 26, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Jake here...

...remember that time, when your mom was at work, you snuck on the computer and showed all those Cardinals fans just how big a 'Cubbie Blue Bleeder' you really were? Well, that's something a local would understand."

Have another 'Old Style and pee in some famous fountain.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 26, 2007 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

look buddy

we put your baby bears in first place (see previous Brewers series), and we will take you out of first place (see current Brewers series)

yeah, the Redbirds are THAT good!

i know, i know, dont feed the trolls....

RankMyTattoo

by Supergus on Sep 26, 2007 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep--

Don't feed the trolls. But really, ya gotta love a guy like Mr. Bagofdouche. He comes over here, takes the time to register, and then tries to berate us for worrying about what the other guy is doing. That kind of lunkheadedness is priceless. Talk about an irony deficiency. Yow. Poor guy sounds so nervous he's about to pee his panties. But yeah--don't feed the trolls ;-)

by rockin redbird on Sep 26, 2007 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

just win more games

this week than you lose, and you have nothing to worry about. Y'all can do that, right?

"but the rain is so real, lord; and the rainbows pretend..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 26, 2007 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Enjoy the banned list, love

by Valatan on Sep 26, 2007 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

my favorite post of the last week

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Sep 26, 2007 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about

a Kerry Robinson punching bag? Tony might like to have one.

by chuckb on Sep 26, 2007 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hope

Remember the last time we missed the play-offs in 2003?

off season moves
back to back 100 win seasons!!!

lets hope the same can be said for 08 & 09!

by ICbirdfan on Sep 26, 2007 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

one positive for our players

is that they will get much needed rest in October, which they haven't had in a long time. Pujols and Edmonds mentioned that they thought this would really help the team next year. As I mentioned in another thread, Pujols said he thought some of the injuries the team suffered this year may be related to being in the playoffs for multiple years (because they had to go right into training without any time to recuperate). He'd much rather be in the playoffs. But he and Edmonds were also looking at the positives of having time for the team to rehab after a grueling year.

by nycardfan on Sep 26, 2007 1:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If the players

can stay positive, so can we. No need to sink to the level of Cub fans and whine about an off year. Here's to a productive off-season!

by cardsgirl95 on Sep 26, 2007 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Should we adopt a team?

Should VEB adopt an NL team this postseason, do game threads for their playoff games, etc?

I'd be interested in something like that. I'd also nominate the Rox if they make the playoffs. Not such great pitching but an offense of young, talented players with power, speed and contact that would be a joy to see destroy other teams in the NLDS.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 26, 2007 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

whoever is playing the cubs

if they make it, that is

by jeff abs on Sep 26, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure Larry would have no problem adopting

the Rox. If they don't make it, my vote would go to the opponents of the Cubs and Mets (if the Cubs don't choke it away).

by Handsome B Wonderful on Sep 26, 2007 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or if the Mets

and their TERRIBLE pitching staff don't choke it away.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 26, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I only wish we could knock them

out of contention. That would be a nice end to our season.

by nycardfan on Sep 26, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rox

As another Colorado native, I heartily agree with the adoption of the Rockies as VEB's choice. They WILL make it!

by roebirds on Sep 28, 2007 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's see

how it all shakes out. I'll root for the Brewers if they upset the Cubs. If not, hell, I'd even root for the hated Pond Scum over the Blueboys.

by rockin redbird on Sep 26, 2007 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I like the brewers, too

Great fans that have been really disappointed by the horrible product on the field. I'd like to see Milwaukee having something to cheer about.

by Valatan on Sep 26, 2007 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I vote the Rox

great combination of talented young guys and veterans. I agree it would be a joy to see them trounce other NLDS teams.

by nycardfan on Sep 26, 2007 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or how about the Rockies reaching the WS

Expansion teams that have reached the World Series since the Cubs last went (1945):

New York Mets (1969)
San Diego Padres (1984)
Milwaukee Brewers (1982)
Arizona Diamondbacks (2001)
Houston Astros (2005)
Colorado Rockies (2007?)
Kansas City Royals (1985)
Los Angeles Angels (2002)
Minnesota Twins (1987)
Toronto Blue Jays (1992)

Seattle Mariners ( Never )
Tampa Bay Devil Rays ( Never )
Texas Rangers ( Never )
Montreal Expos ( Never )
Washington Nationals ( Never )

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 26, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we're out, I'm on board

with the Rockies all the way. The only other team I'd be rooting for is the Angels (and since they won in 2002, why not give the Rox a chance).

by nycardfan on Sep 26, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And more..

Florida Marlins (1997 and, most joyously for us here at VEB, 2003)

by 10worldchamps on Sep 26, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

aside--first one wasn't fun

lived in Florida at the time and the WS team was immediately sold off (after it was 'bought' not long before). Set a bad example for expansion teams everywhere. And they wonder why no one is in the stands.

by nycardfan on Sep 26, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i nominate the rockies

and if not, the padres.

and if not, the diamonbacks.

...and whoever is playing the cubs.

by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 26, 2007 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My vote

Phillies...second favorite NL team, and I may be moving there in January.

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 26, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Phillies....I'm with you...

Good club...and a local St.Louis kid leading the team....

Will also go with the Rocks...went and watched them last night against the Dodgers and they are just a really fun team to watch play. Matt Holiday is my favorite player to watch this year.

by Timbo02 on Sep 26, 2007 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That Dodgers game

redefined the term "sports-induced cardiac arrest." Whoof.

Anyone but the Cubs.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Sep 26, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here is my prefernce

depending on who makes it

Rox
Phillies
Brewers
Padres
Diamondbacks
Mets
Cubs

by JMedwick on Sep 26, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rockies

They will make it. I believe.

Anyone but the Cubs.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Sep 26, 2007 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Phightin's!

hear hear to the phillies choice.

st. louis' own ryan howard!
chase!
j-roll!
the flyin' hawaiian!
the tale of two seasons of pat the bat!
the six million dollar nose of aaron rowand!
the six fingered man!
the ghost of jose mesa!
the redemption of brett myers!
harry the k!
no postseason appearances since '93!
the lovable losers!

how can you not root for that team? though admittedly, the rox and brewers would be my second choice if either of them made it.

i'll be there if the phils pull it out though.

by moboiler on Sep 26, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and...

...they're the right color.

by moboiler on Sep 26, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm rooting for the Phillies

to take the NL East, since I hate the mets more than I dislike them (I can't stand Phillie fans) but I want SD to win the Wild Card. SD has the best chance of winning in the post-season imho and I want the NL to win again, darn it. Not to mention SD has never won a WS.

A Philadelphia/NY world series would be fun to watch, though...

"but the rain is so real, lord; and the rainbows pretend..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 26, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Team

Of course, I can live with the ABC idea (Anyone but Cubs), but I'm probably going to be more excited about the Padres and Indians.

Personally, I think the Indians would continue the delicious irony of drought teams/major rivals of the Cubs winning, thus driving Wrigleyville even more insane.

C70 at the Bat

by Cardinal70 on Sep 26, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rox pitching

The rockies has some nice young arms in Jeff Francis, Ubaldo Jimenez, and Franklin Morales - all three are pitching pretty well this year (rookie year for Jimenez and Morales after late season callups) and if they continue to improve - look out. Farm system is pretty impressive for this team. But if they can make the playoffs this year (hope to attend a game this weekend) they could very well be the NL representative in the WS.

by cdb on Sep 26, 2007 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

my adopted teams

diamondbacks
phillies
rockies
padres
brewers
cubs
mets

AL:

angels
indians
red sox
yankees

by willievinceterry on Sep 26, 2007 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The NL Central winner...

may be an unpopular pick, but hear me out. To me, a general rule about contests is to root for the team responsible for eliminating you.

Losing to a winner is better than losing to a loser. Right?

The Cards at night, are big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas

by texbird on Sep 28, 2007 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rox

by Pujols on Sep 26, 2007 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

blasphemous, I know...

but my postseason team will be Cleveland (even if I don't believe in AL baseball). But I've got several friends from the area who rooted for the Cards while the Tribe was out of it in the last few years, so I'm repaying the favor.

by cardsgirlinAR on Sep 26, 2007 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's cool

I'm definitely rooting for the Tribe out of the AL.

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 26, 2007 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Tribe is the only AL team I can get behind

I hate the Yankees more than words can say, and not fond of the Sawx or the LAAAAA either. But I'm still Rockies through and through.

Anyone but the Cubs.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Sep 26, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Indians

are my pick for the AL representative, and I've liked them for a long time (at least going back more than 35 years to when I was a kid and read about their 1954 team that blitzkrieged through the league that year only to get up-ended in the WS).

However, I am still a through-and-through supporter of the NL when it comes time for the fall classic because I absolutely hate the DH (may you roll in your grave, Charlie Finley).

"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains."

by AustinBOB on Sep 26, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

the Tigers are my AL team, but I could get behind the Indians if they represent the AL this year. And there are not many AL teams that I could say that about - not the Yanks or the Sox, for sure. But I hope to be backing the NL team, anyone but the Cubs or Mets.

by cardsgirl95 on Sep 26, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tribe

I will support Cleveland. I like a lot of their players and their 3B is Casey Blake from the great state of Iowa!

I prefer NL Baseball but I would rather see Cleveland win one.

If the Padres make the the play-offs I will be pulling for them since I like Jake Peavy and Greg Maddux very much.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 26, 2007 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sawx

I know, I know, they are over exposed on the WWL, but I love the passion of the fans, I want to visit Fenway some day (when I win the lottery and can take the dream vacation to every MLB ball park), and I work with a die-hard Sawx fan... the bonus is that the Sawx are the mortal enemies of the Yankees....

Just remember -- if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 26, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I don't get all the Red Sox haters. We rolled over in the WS in '04; they didn't do anything to us that we wouldn't have done to them.

I know they get a lot of flack for being the Yankees, Jr. but someone's gotta compete with Steinbrenner's bankroll.

Still, I'd really love to see the Indians in the WS. I love me some Grady Sizemore.

Spantalones

by spants on Sep 26, 2007 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I regret that I must completely, utterly

disagree with you.

by sdrone on Sep 26, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the main difference

i've noticed between sox fans and yankees fans is not the die-hards, but the bandwagoneers. if you go to fenway or the stadium - i've been to both - you'll meet decent people (with a lot of money, typically) who know baseball and can be classy. however, i live near baltimore, where yanks and sox fans are notorious for invading in droves whenever their respective teams are in town. the yankees fans there are vocal, but not unlike cards fans when they head over to kansas city, they're there to enjoy the games and not just to be seen wearing yankees stuff. however, i have a hard time being convinced the sox fans are there for that reason - i've seen far more often the group of 20-somethings showing up in the third inning (and then conversing the entire game about which bar they'll be hitting up later) among sox fans than among yanks fans. thus, my opinion is that yankees fans deserve a little more respect.

just an observation.

by moboiler on Sep 26, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I live in Balto too

and I'll second that.

"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 26, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Had that here in the Lou

I went to a game in August while we were still pushing hard and I had a group of late 20s early 30s people sit behind my wife and I (early 20s) and they talked all game about the girls birth control among other things. When Rick hit one almost out of the park I stood up to watch and they all stood up and looked around like "why am I standing?" and they had no clue what was going on. I get so pissed at people for doing that but I guess they paid their price as well and they left in the 6th after getting there in the 3rd so I guess it wasn't all game anyway.

by StLHugo on Sep 26, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

doesn't surprise me

i've been to busch iii a few times and experienced the same type of thing. it's a totally different atmosphere than busch ii, at least during the regular season.

by moboiler on Sep 26, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

New Thing

it is still the "new" thing, or at least it was last year, this year it is loaded with bandwagon fans. I expect that next season we won't see sell outs of every game and the crowd should go back to normal.

by StLHugo on Sep 26, 2007 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about that.

The percentage of tickets in this stadium that are bought by companies, then given away, to customers, employees, whatever, seems to be much higher than in the old stadium. It's a slightly different breed of person that goes to sporting events nowadays in general, I think. It's maybe a little disappointing to the old school fans, but thems the breaks.

The overall paradigm of attendance at sporting events has changed significantly, I think. You see far fewer people going to the games because they're huge fans, and more young business types going because they got tickets from their employers. More and more diehard fans are taking advantage of the television packages available for pretty much any sport you like now to follow their game of choice, while live attendance to the event has become more of an entertainment situation, as opposed to a true sporting event.

Free to a good home.

by the red baron on Sep 27, 2007 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also wanted to add

that you can see this shift in the way that concessions and other amenities are priced. Going to a ballgame is so expensive now that it's a big 'event'- you go once or twice a year, drop a hundred bucks per person on beers and food, and just watch the rest of the games on television.

Contrast that to the old style season ticket holder, who would attend anymore from 65-75 of the home games. Unless you forego food and drinks entirely, that's just not a viable option anymore.

Teams are looking to draw a greater percentage of the overall population of their constituent area, with each individual spending a greater amount, while attending a very small number of games annually. Fan loyalty isn't important, because loyalty adds much less to the bottome line than the 'event' paradigm.

Free to a good home.

by the red baron on Sep 27, 2007 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am a registered

Red Sox Hater. Let me explain.

For one thing, I've been to Fenway. Outside of Phillies fans, the Boston fans have got to be the most obnoxious people in all of baseball. They somehow manage to be louder, cruder, and more nasal, (mostly thanks to that inability to pronounce the letters "ar") than even Yanks fans, and that's saying something. Fenway Franks are good, though.

More than that, though, is the whole image the Sox project of themselves. Everyone hates the Yankees because they buy whatever players they want. Personally, I respect that. They spend money than anyone else because they make more money than anyone else. The thing about the Red Sox is that they basically do the exact same thing, yet they put out the image of themselves as the scrappy underdog team over there. I'm sorry, but when you have the second highest payroll in the sport, I'm just not buying you as the underdog. The Sawx try to portray themselves as the absolute anti Yankees, but in reality, they're pretty much the exact same franchise. I can respect the Yanks; they make no bones about who they are. But to spend 150 million on payroll and then try to convince everyone that you're the Bad News Bears is just crap in my book.

Also, I don't care if we did roll over for them in 04, I don't forgive teams easily. I just started liking the Twins in 2005; up until then I was still carrying the 87 torch.

Free to a good home.

by the red baron on Sep 27, 2007 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep

i concur on the sox' portrayal of themselves - and i agree, i cannot stand the accent.

however, the sox fans i met at fenway did appear to be decent fans. there, probably, the yuppie culture at the ballpark might be outpriced - when tickets start getting up in the $200-$300 range (i.e., more than a night out at a bar) the 20somethings might move away and

why the disdain for philly fans? i've been to a ton of games at citizens bank park - yeah, they boo, but they boo because they care. and (for the most part) they won't boo someone just for the sake of doing it. pat burrell got booed when he was hitting .202, but not so much anymore thanks to a couple of 10 HR months. in contrast, i booed juan encarnacion at a cards game a couple of months back after he swung at the first pitch and grounded out weakly with the cards behind by a run in the 6th inning... and i got scolded by the young lady in front of me (who, i might add, was text messaging someone most of the evening and left in the 8th inning of the same game, with the cards still down a run) because "cardinals fans don't boo." what? at least i care enough to boo. that's why i respect the phillies fans... and hope their team gets in the playoffs so they'll have something to really cheer about.

by moboiler on Sep 27, 2007 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

the Cardinals try to portray themselves as underdogs, too. Clearly, we're not.

Personally, the midwest nasally twang bothers me way more than the Boston accent. At least they don't add "r" sounds to words.

And, they still spend less than the Yanks; therefore, they are not the front-runners in their division.

by spants on Sep 27, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How great would a

Rox vs. Indians World Series be?

Just think game time temp will be around 20 as a high.

by Harknights on Sep 26, 2007 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not that cold in Denver

Maybe 40. Cleveland, yeah.

And that's my dream WS matchup.

Anyone but the Cubs.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Sep 26, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Championship baseball in Coors field?

That would be interesting...

by Valatan on Sep 26, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It will happen

If not this year, then next.

Anyone but the Cubs.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Sep 26, 2007 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Boys of... Winter?

No offense Scarlet (I know how much you like the Rox), but be careful what you wish for.

Denver's Winter/Cold Season Statistics per the NOAA Website of the National Weather Service:

"October 21st is the average date in which Denver's normal overnight low temperature hits 32
degrees Fahrenheit for the first time."

Autumn First Snow Information

Earliest Date of First Snow: September 3, 1961
Latest Date of First Snow: November 21, 1934
Average Date of First Snow: October 19th

First Measurable Snow Last 8 Years:
November 1, 2004
November 5, 2003
October 24, 2002
October 5, 2001
September 23, 2000
September 28, 1999
November 1, 1998
October 12, 1997

The thought of baseball being played in or around snowstorms is disturbing. At that rate, perhaps we should all be pulling for global warming?

"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains."

by AustinBOB on Sep 26, 2007 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

'97 WS Redux

At least it would shut people up about the humidor; they'd have to fight their homers through the snow. And yes, it does start snowing early in Denver. But I wouldn't mind.

Anyone but the Cubs.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Sep 26, 2007 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kemp up for grabs?

At MLB Trade Rumors (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/) they reference a rumor that the Dodgers might be willing to trade Matt Kemp in their unending quest to get older. Third base is one spot they supposedly might be looking for a veteran and Scottie is listed.

I'd sure like to have Kemp and, given Rolen's shoulder issues, seeming friction with TLR and declining performance...

Plus, we could spin Ankiel or Duncan for a starter if we had Kemp in one corner. Of course, who would play 3rd? A-rod? ;-)

Just passing along the rumor. I seriously doubt anyone wuld trade someone of Kemp's value for a guy who just missed the end of the season to have ANOTHER shoulder surgery.

by punditmoi on Sep 26, 2007 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hear ya

It would be nice to trade Rolen till you wonder who will fill in defensively?

I really don't want to watch Barden, Ryan, Cairo, or Miles attempt to play 3B.

No offense to all of those guys but they are not even close to Scottie defensively.

Seems like Eck went down defensively when Scottie had to shut it down. I think Scott is so good he allows Eck to cheat a bit which makes him better.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 26, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The "Rolen Effect"

I agree with the possibility that Eckstein's defensive limitations were further exposed once Rolen stopped being anything close to his former self, and/or was shut down completley.

Somebody else on VEB mentioned the same thing a few days/weeks ago as I recall. I would be interested in seeing Eckstein's defensive splits with/without Rolen in the game. I suspect there will be a significant difference.

I've always felt that Rolen's defense was something to behold and that his glove is quite a compensation (up to a point) for a drop-off in offensive output. Sigh... I regularly find myself daydreaming about getting a healthy Rolen back through 2010.

"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains."

by AustinBOB on Sep 26, 2007 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, that's the problem

we're used to having fantastic defense at 3rd base. I've really missed him, even though I was yapping earlier about him needing to sit down when he was not hitting the ball.

With groundball pitchers, his glove will be impossible to replace. I would rather gamble on his recent surgery and see if he can regain strength next year.

I haven't given up hope on him offensively. He was still driving in important runs even when injured. We would't have won those dramatic games against the Brewers (the double header come-backs) without Scott. And with the corisone shot, we saw some of his potential resurface. Hopfully the surgery will work in a similar way.

by nycardfan on Sep 26, 2007 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Winters, umpire in Bradley blowup, suspended

"Umpire Mike Winters was suspended by Major League Baseball for the remainder of the regular season on Wednesday because of his confrontation with San Diego Padres outfielder Milton Bradley last weekend." Doesn't say if that includes post season or not. Message sent, I only hope it was received.
Story is here.

by dralexp on Sep 26, 2007 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

good deal

was he the one who threw out tony in D.C. on the check swing call? It might not be, but it sounds right

"Show me a guy who takes his time on the mound and I'll show you a damned loser." - Leo Durocher

by mattyfrommo on Sep 26, 2007 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

he looked familiar too

but we've had so many bad umps that it could be someone else I'm remembering.

by nycardfan on Sep 26, 2007 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes

he umped in DC when we were there.

Listening to the radio, I remember Mike Shannon called him out as unprofessional there for antagonizing/instigating a player argument.

MLB should have dealt with it then.

by enoscountry on Sep 26, 2007 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have a theory, let me know what you think.

Some higher power has it in for Cubs fans (duh), but this has been especially apparent over the last 5 years. Let me explain:

2003 - The Cubs make the playoffs, and are about to clinch the NL Pennant when the Bartman incident happens. This is awfully hard to take for Cubs fans

2004 - Until 2004, the Cubs had company as a "cursed" baseball team, but their counterpart, the Boston Red Sox won the World Series, leaving the Cubbies as baseball's only remaining cursed team.

2005 - It could be said that there was still another cursed team until 2005: the White Sox. Well, no more. The Cubbies foes from the south side won the WS, and in the process took some fair-weather fan Chicagoans with them.

2006 - What could be worse than '03 through '05 for Cubs fans? Easy, the hated rival St Louis Cardinals come from nowhere, by backing into the playoffs, then win the World Series. In the first year of a new stadium, no less.

I would say that each of these occurrences has been harder to take than the one before it (you could argue about '03) for Cubs fans, and so it appears someone is purposefully torturing them. I find great enjoyment in this series of events, and am really excited to see what is in store for the ever-hopeful Cubs fans and their cursed Cubbies this year. Perhaps one of you can come up for a witty name for this phenomenon! Go Cards!

"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert

by BigMOman on Sep 26, 2007 6:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

dunno

don't forget, we had to overcome the curse of Keith Hernandez in '06. So '07 could theoretically be the 4th year in a row that a curse was defeated...

"but the rain is so real, lord; and the rainbows pretend..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 26, 2007 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The "Deja Vu Cubbie Blues"?

by Timbo02 on Sep 26, 2007 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Typical Marquis

absolutely blows in the first inning but only gives up a run.

by enoscountry on Sep 26, 2007 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

best part of the season

was the final game at home sunday night. could not have gone better for the Cards. Albert got lidge again. and Rick got the game winning hit.

a close second was a couple nights earlier where Yadda won the game in the 14th inning on his bobblehead give away night. that was a great win.

also i'm jumping on the indians bandwagon. my best friend is a die hard fan, and he's still hurting from 95 & 97. there are a lot of die hard fans in ohio who have stuck with them for decades. so i hope they win it. it's be great for all their long suffering fans.

back to the Birds. yes this season sucked. every one got hurt. Tony "fell asleep". Josh died. the rotation except for Wagonmaker & LOOP totally collapsed. Tony was picking fights with the media on a nightly basis.

but because they are our beloved Cardinals they also gave us countless memories that we'll tell our grandchildren about. so yes, it was the season from hell. but it could always be worse. we could be flub fans.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 27, 2007 1:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs