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Game 132 Open Thread: September 1, 2007

Birdos_avatar_tiny by lboros on in St. Louis Cardinals News

dumatrait

wagonmaker

0-2, 14.18

12-9, 3.86

nothing comes easy to this team, does it? a game that should be cause for celebration is instead a potentially bitter blow. whatever you might think of encarnacion, losing him and rolen --- the cards' two primary right-handed rbi bats, after pujols --- at the same time does not help. i've heard nothing so far about the extent of the injury; there could be a chance it's a career-altering one, a slimmer chance it'll be career-ending. but the chance that it's season-ending looms rather large. let's hope it's less serious than that.

Update [2007-9-1 15:2:4 by lboros]: it's more serious than that --- season defnitely over, and career in jeopardy. terrible, terrible news. [end update]

i think anthony reyes might've preferred to suffer encarnacion's fate rather than the one he actually endured. he had no command of his fastball whatsoever last night --- yet it was still his best pitch. even the delivery he struck griffey out on was a bad pitch, sternum high and right down the middle. (hence the visit from duncan immediately after that at-bat.) it was his worst outing of the year by a long shot; until last night, he'd lasted at least 5 full innings in all but two of his starts. even when he gave up 4 or 5 runs, there was always a 3- to 5-inning stretch of solid pitching; you always came away saying: "if he could just eliminate that one bad inning . . . ." last night's game was all bad inning, with no counterweighting display of promise. i thought the scales were beginning to tip his way, and that he might pitch well enough down the stretch to solidify his place in the cardinals' future. but last night things seesawed pretty heavily in the opposite direction. like encarnacion, reyes has his share of detractors, but even if you hate the dude there's no satisfaction to be taken from an outing like last night's. when a top prospect fails, the organization suffers. reyes may be out of chances.

the pitch that ankiel hit out was a not a terrible one, low and on the outside corner. but it didn't have any bite, and it was the 3d pitch in a row in that exact same location --- all roughly the same speed, ~83 mph. he'd swung through the pitch right before it, and i guess guardado figured he'd keep pounding that corner and let rick get himself out --- strike out or bounce it to 2d. he clearly wasn't expecting that outside pitch to get pulled with any authority; there aren't a lot of guys who could've hit it out of the park. of all ankiel's exploits to date, this is the first one that really gets my attention; guardado has been far from an ace in recent years, but he has retained his ability to control left-handed batters.

as for la russa, he's got to be one of the least-beloved franchise-wins-leaders in mlb history. i've been thinking about this a little bit lately, and i've come to the conclusion that the guy doesn't want to be loved anyway --- or, at least, that's not a core motivation for him. i think he wants to be respected, and in my estimation most cardinal fans do respect him, or at least respect his achievements; i mean, how could you not. but i think la russa's real desire is to be provocative. he wants to challenge you, get you outside your comfort zone. he surely does that with his players, in the hope of making them better, tougher performers; and he treats opposing players and managers the same way, which is why many of them hate him. this is also his m.o. with the media and, by extension, the fans. he's never going to give you an easy way out; he's never going to let you off the hook. i'm not judging tony here, ok? i'm not criticizing the guy. on the contrary, i find a lot to admire in his intensity and discipline. i'm merely musing on the way he's regarded by the public, the complicated responses he elicits. i think that's what he wants --- i think he'd rather be an object of uneasy debate, even conflict, than one of unconditional love.

but if ever the guy deserved a little love, it's today. congratulations and thank you, mr tony --- that's a lotta wins, and you got ev'y one of 'em your way.

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Unloved in St.Lou
I remember one of the Cubs announcers asking Mike Shannon on one of his post, post game shows from his restaurant just why Tony wasn't more popular with the fans in St. Louis given his oustanding record.  

Shannon replied:  "He doesn't live here.  He doesn' eat meat.  And he kisses his dogs on the mouth."

True story.

by carys on Sep 1, 2007 9:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Affection must be given before it's returned
Whether Tony wants to be loved by the fans or not, I have no idea, and I really don't care. It's hard to have the warm fuzzies for a guy who has such open contempt for criticism by fans and the press. Blow off, he says. You have no clue what goes on.  

Well, we don't have the same amount of information he has in making decisions. But how much information does it take to realize it isn't a good idea to put one of your worst relievers (Flores) in against some of the other team's best hitters?

TLR is an intense and conscientious manager. He isn't loved in St. Louis because he doesn't deserve it. That's the bottom line.

All things are ready if our minds be so.

by Dexter Westbrook on Sep 1, 2007 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

the primary criteria
for judging your manager should be wins and losses and what they do with their talent.  even so, la russa obviously does have a lot of respect for the cardinals organization and the job he occupies.  granted, maybe if he talked about how much he loved toasted ravioli a little more often he would be beloved, but demanding that just seems to show insecurity to me.  

by oh quen do it on Sep 1, 2007 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lbros or others...
This is kinda rleated but i had a question about the farm system... I came here last yr alot and didnt see the calmoring for the youngsters to play as mych as this yr(at least to my memory). Last yr the only name I heard alot was Marti alot Im sure there whereothers.. this yr I see alot of give sos and so the shot..

Hawk,Ankiel,Hoff,Jrod,skip(at times)..maybe others..My question since I dont keep up with it but it seems to be there are alot of young names being thrown around more than recent yrs(maybe Im just not as informed as others..

Is the farm system in better shape with better talent than it has been? We have seen last yr and this yr how young guys have have stepped in and done well. TJ and AW last yr. Ryan, ankiel, this yr.

This can get overshadowed by Reyes drama, and lack of getting other free agents. So whatis the state in your opinion of the farm teams?

07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 9:52 AM EDT reply actions  

Farm Teams
You probably weren't asking for my opinion but here it is anyway.  Cycles....the late 70s and 80s were boom time for Cardinal prospects....either thru luck or brilliance....Worrell,TP, Herr, Obie, Kennedy, Durham, et al....maybe one of the best in MLB.

The end of the Louisville AAA Redbirds mirrored a time of organizational neglect or poor drafting as the prospect well ran very low - maybe one of the worst in MLB

The draft/farm system has rebounded nicely in Memphis....maybe not the best but we're off the bottom and rising.

I think the jury is still out on our current draft strategy and our ability to develop young starting pitchers, but at least we are improving.

by Hinkster on Sep 1, 2007 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

actually it was to anyone
and i guess talent is not proven until they get MLB time..but it seems alot of names are being asked for on this site to get that chance to prove it.
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Farm Team Analysis
Like the Red/Tony discussion going on elsewhere on this site today......things have REALLY changed regarding scrutiny of minor leaguers.

Not long ago, few fans paid attention to the draft or minor leaguers below AAA.  The internet, instant news and wonderful sites like this one and Future Redbirds has changed all that.  With a few morning clicks of the mouse, we can all get as much up to the minute detail from Batavia to Baltimore.  Heck, vivaelbirdos posters provide better breaking news flashes than ESPN!  Seems like yesterday that I loved the occasional commercial flight thru Lambert because I could get a Post Dispatch and read rare insight into my beloved Cardinals.

No longer is an unknown drafted, tucked away in some small town and forgotten about until he's someday called up.  

If Kyle Russell changes his stance in a Texas batting cage.....we'll probably know about that before the Cards do.  Heck, someone will probably post a video analysis of the new swing.

Higher minds will have to speculate as to what all of this is doing to our expectation level.  But it sure is fun following all this detail.

by Hinkster on Sep 1, 2007 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

The farm system is definitely better than it
was say 2-3 years ago.  The players you've listed are basically the marginal talent that has surfaced up to AAA.  Part of the reason they are being discussed this year is the (perceived) struggles of a variety of players in STL: Encarnacion, Reyes, Miles, etc.  So it's not so much that these are fantastic prospects as it is that you have to wonder if the marginal prospects couldn't do a better job than the collection of role players we have at STL.
Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Sep 1, 2007 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta Love`
Mike Shannon! Its a shame that TLR is unloved here. He has done nothing but win and sometimes he wins with less talent than other teams (LAST YEAR!). He has put up 2 seasons of 100 or more victories here. We have been to the playoffs 7 of his 11 years. This year would be his best management to date if we make it.
Come on You Redbirds--Mike Shannon

by BluesDrummer85 on Sep 1, 2007 9:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Congrats to TLR!
Sometimes he bewilders me with the moves he makes, but I always believe he is doing what HE thinks is best for the Cards, even if the fans disagree or don't understand.  So I will always respect him and I appreciate all the great seasons under his management.  FWIW, I agree with Larry - Tony wants to be respected, rather than beloved, and wants to keep everyone (players, ownership, fans) on their toes.  Never a dull moment in Cardinal Nation.  

Sending thoughts and prayers out for Juan this morning.    

by cardsgirl95 on Sep 1, 2007 10:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Please Don't Love Me
"the guy doesn't want to be loved anyway --- or, at least, that's not a core motivation for him. i think he wants to be respected,"

I would say that's an accurate assessment.  There are a number of easy things Tony could have done over the last decade to ingratiate himself further with the core fan base.....buy a Stl home, do a few targeted commercials appealing to the home boys, eat a hamburger, be a little more aw shucks in his approach.  Most would have done so and had alot of fun in the process.  But that's just not Tony's way.

I suspect that at his core is a book reading, wine sipping, veggie eating, animal loving kinda guy that would prefer to never be in the limelight.  He can't avoid the spotlight, so he does what he has to do publicly and does it fairly well.

You can't argue with that....he's just not gonna kick back, eat braunschweiger, sip cold ones and swap stories with the boys down at the garage.  Oh well.

Life long friends of his would likely tell us stories with themes of privacy, stubbornness, perfectionism, intensity and pride.  But they won't tell those stories because Tony would not want them to and they respect him.  

As for fan respect, he's earned it...his record in Stl and beyond speaks loudly.

So while you are not as loveable as Red or Whitey, and we would not have created you this way in our magic manager machine.........thank you, anyway Tony......you have our respect

btw, I suspect Duncan is the same way.....two peas in a pod.......I met Dunc once in public setting and he looked as if he would rather have his fingernails pulled out than work a room....if Tony and Dunc could do their job in a private laboratory, they probably would

by Hinkster on Sep 1, 2007 10:20 AM EDT reply actions  

Respect
I think you have to look no further than the group of coaches Tony considers friends: Pinella, Belicheck, Parcells, Knight. I don't think any of those guys want to be loved. They want to win.

I can not only live with that from one of my coaches, I can respect them for it. I'd imagine the players do as well.

Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 1, 2007 10:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Very perceptive comment.
"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 1, 2007 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1
When TLR finally retires, we are going to be comparing his replacement to Tony, and it's fair to say that pretty much anybody will be a downgrade.

Maybe he'll be more of a "player's manager," like (shudder) Dusty Baker supposedly is, or maybe he'll be more cuddly/media-friendly....

But I like the fact that the Cards have been in the playoffs for 6 years out of the last 7.

One common knock on TLR (and other managers/coaches with both success and longevity--Phil Jackson comes to mind) is that they won with star players....I think a huge portion of the 2006 championship is solely because TLR squeezed every last drop of performance out of a banged-up team held together with duct tape....

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

The nature of professional sports...
...doesn't lend itself to producing "nice guys." When winning is all that matters, one does whatever one can to win. Red Schoendienst is beloved by Cardinal fans not only because he won a helluva lot of ballgames as a manager; but also because he was a star player for the Cardinals (and Stan Musial's roommate on the road!), he came from "Cardinal Country" (Germantown, Illinois), and he's called St. Louis "home" since he was a downy-cheeked, skinny second baseman!

Red was fortunate enough to manage ballclubs who knew how to play... "motivational" tactics would have been superfluous for ballclubs that featured notorious "hard-nosed" competitors such as Gibson, Brock, Shannon, McCarver, Flood, Maris, and many others. Red was smart enough not to "get in the way" of guys who wanted to win as badly as he did... hence, Red's rep as an "easy-going" manager.

Tony is another kettle of fish entirely... I think at least part of the lack of "warm fuzzies" from Cardfans is the fact that he lives "somewhere else"; "what, St. Louis isn't good enough for you to call home?" He also lacks any residual goodwill from his playing career.

No doubt, TLR is of the school of managers/coaches who believe that manipulating (inspiring, prodding, "pushing") players is a LARGE part of their job! (Heck, look at the guys he invites to Spring Training! Bobby Knight, Bill Parcells... "hard-nosers" all!) When a guy's favorite word is "relentless", don't expect to see "Mahatma" Gandhi!

Tony also faces a much more "confrontational" interface with the fans than Red did. Neither the Post-Dispatch nor the late Globe-Democrat specialized in "second-guessing" managerial strategy back in the day, and the single sports call-in show, KMOX's "Sports Open Line", was unfailingly polite due to the edicts of boss Robert Hyland. TLR faces a far harsher (and far more extensive) media spotlight than Red did.

Give Tony his due, however... whatever you say about him, he sure ain't scared! Hitting the pitcher eighth???? Hit-and-run? Dare the opposition to "swing away" with an aggressive bunt defense? Tony will try anything he thinks will help his club win!

Nah, I don't know Tony LaRussa personally... but I like having him as the Cards' manager, quirks and all! Here's to ya, Tony!

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Sep 1, 2007 10:27 AM EDT reply actions  

The nature of professional sports...(part 2)
Also, if you look at today's game compared to the game when Red was managing, it is completely different.  You had guys on the team that The Ol Goaler mentioned...a lot of those guys are "life long" St. Louisans.  They were not going anywhere.

However, in today's game of free agency and big trade deadline moves (sometimes for the sake of making a move) Tony has had to be in the school of managers who pokes and prods his players to get everything out of them.  Many players nowadays are PC's (paycheck collectors) rather than ballplayers.

That is why he is respected, because he coached back in a little simpler time, and has adjusted to the current times.  He has shown that this year as well.  He may not have adjusted to a youth movement as quickly as we fans would have liked; he may have been forced to do so through injuries, but he is not scared of playing the youngsters now and he is playing them regularly in the hopefully stretch-winning drive towards the playoffs.

stlfan

by stlfan on Sep 1, 2007 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tony and Red
Congratulations.  This may be the first time I've ever seen Red not in uniform in his life.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 1, 2007 10:48 AM EDT reply actions  

What incredible lineup will TLR
Put together tonight?  Dumatrait is a LHP.  I'd love to see Pujols get the night off, but that won't happen with the Southpaw.

My guess?

Eckstein SS
Ankiel RF
Pujols 1B
Ludwick LF
Taguchi CF
Molina C
Miles 2B
Wainwright P
Ryan 3B

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 1, 2007 11:11 AM EDT reply actions  

I hope he sticks with Ankiel
forgetting for a moment there we lost Juan on that foul ball...

yeah, I hope that lineup is right, although I agree AP needs a day off.  Hopefully we start killing this guy early and AP can get out of the game.  Because of that he may drop Ankiel down in the order so if AP goes out it won't be 2 lefties in a row with Duncan at 1b.  I'll guess:

Eck
Taguchi
AP
Ludwick
Ankiel
Molina
Miles
Wainright
Ryan

by MaskedMan on Sep 1, 2007 11:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh, and congrats to Tony!
He's done it all in both leagues and we're pretty lucky to have a HF coach who may stay because of the youth movement!  I think he gets a pretty big kick out of coaching with the addition of Ankiel and the surprise of Ludwick and Ryan.  We've got a pretty fun run ahead that will be too tempting not to return for a couple more years to see how this new chapter unfolds for this team.  I hope!

by MaskedMan on Sep 1, 2007 11:31 AM EDT reply actions  

The Juan injury....
was one of the more gruesome sports injuries i've seen. I really wish FSMW wouldn't of kept showing the replay over and over.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 1, 2007 11:32 AM EDT reply actions  

i dunno the theismna injury
is up there as well
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

well the worst i've EVER seen...
would be the goalie who took a skate to the neck and had his neck slit open. for those with strong stomachs, you can find it on youtube.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 1, 2007 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Clint Malarchuk
Buffalo Sabres, horrible, horrible, horrible.  You know when someone warns you "don't watch that"?  Don't watch it.
"Don't try to figure this game out"--S. Rolen

by glennrwordman on Sep 1, 2007 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember hearing about that
I didn't see it, but I recall they said the only reason the guy lived at all was because he was on the side of the ice closest to where they could bring the stretcher in....

I think the most hideous thing I ever saw while just idly watching a game on TV was when Napoleon McCallum's knee got destroyed. He was a running back, and I think somebody hit him high from behind and low from in front....he got his spikes stuck in the turf and his knee bowed out back behind him. Ended his career on the spot.

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps you don't remember Jason Kendall
running on his leg bone as his ankle and foot druge behind him.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 1, 2007 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes.
Tim Krumrie and the blow out knee injury Moises Alou suffered at the old Busch Stadium come to mind.

by champion on Sep 1, 2007 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's not forget
Aaron Miles in all of this too.  Matthew Leach's story on stlcardinals.com said that Miles was pretty shaken up after the game.  I'm sure we've all been there or, at least, have known someone who created a terrible accident situation.  That is hard place to be mentally.  As with Juan, some of you may not like Miles as a ball player, but I am certian the general consensus on this board is that we want them both to be okay.

by cardsgirlinAR on Sep 1, 2007 11:50 AM EDT reply actions  

I can testify to that
I was playing 1st base in a slow pitch softball game when a guy hit a slow ground ball to the 3rd baseman.  While the guy was comming down the line, the 3rd baseman's throw was offline twards homeplate.  I tried to run over and snag it, but I missed and it hit the runner right smack in the face.  Even though I didn't make the throw, I still felt responsible for missing the catch or blocking the ball, and I don't play 1st anymore.

That kind of stuff can spook you out big time.

by cloistermaximus on Sep 1, 2007 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know what's really f*%king annoying?
That Fox prevents us from picking up MLB.TV feeds from 1:00 ET games on Saturdays - even though most of these games will be done (or close to done) when Fox begins their 330 broadcast?

Why not just cut the feeds at 330?

In any case, I've been thinking all morning I'll watch the cubs game while getting some work done and just realized - nope.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Encarnacion
I don't know if this has been posted in another thread on this website or not, but here is the Cardinals' official press release concerning Juan Encarnacion (posted approx. a half hour ago on mlb.com):

ST. LOUIS - St. Louis Cardinals outfielder Juan Encarnacion suffered multiple fractures of his left eye socket and a serious eye injury after being struck by a foul ball last night.
Encarnacion has been hospitalized for continued observation, evaluation and treatment. He will be re-evaluated on a daily basis to continue to assess the severity of his eye injury.

Encarnacion will miss the remainder of 2007 season due to his injury and his long-term prognosis is undetermined at this time.

by Ghost on Sep 1, 2007 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

wow
That's terrible. For the team and for juan. I feel sick.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

terrible indeed
The line about the "long-term prognosis" makes it sound sound as if this is more likely a possible career-ender than not.  The PD article about it and Tony's comments make it sound like Juan might not see out of that eye, let alone hit a baseball.  Truly sad.

by k randolph on Sep 1, 2007 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

'Curt Flood'
I'm still really upset at this poster for last night posting "Aaron Miles for MVP" after the incident.

Of all the insensitive remarks...takes Juan-hating to a new and distasteful low.

Any explanation Curt?

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree
That comment was in really poor taste.  My best to Juan.

I gotta change this signature

Recall Anthony Reyes!

by Big Mike on Sep 1, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I doubt he has an explination
He's made his feelings for Juan apparant over the past couple of weeks.  And they haven't been based on numbers or stats or anything.  They've been all based personally.

Frankly, I don't want to hear an explination from Curt Flood.  He's made it crystal clear how he feels about Juan and his comment last night was classless and disgusting.  Anything he says now would be an attempt to make himself look better.

by Big Red on Sep 1, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

the only explanation
that would absolve him was that he posted it BEFORE the incident for some reason that is beyond me. Like as a 'cheer on Miles' device.

I don't think that's the case. Truly disgusting comment.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

i didn't see this
that's about the worst post that's ever been posted on this board.

get lost, Curt Flood. you're no longer welcome here. go look in the mirror. examine yourself.

by lboros on Sep 1, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

right on lboros
I'm glad comments like those have consequences...ridiculous

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

good job larry
i was sure last night that when you saw that you would take action, and i agree, it was the most disgusting attempt at humor that i have see on here
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Sep 2, 2007 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Couple of things...
First off, I've been as big an anti-Juan guy as anyone...However, none of that really matters right now.  You don't want to see anyone get hurt, especially as seriously that.  Quick story: when I was a freshman in high school, I was throwing BP to my buddy and wasn't paying as much attention as I should have been.  My buddy hit a line drive right back at me and I got drilled square in the face.  It hit me in probably the best possible place, on the facial bone right below the orbit and next to the nose.  I broke my facial bone, had nerve damage, jaw damage (my jaw joints shook loose), and had some blood flow issues in my face for a few days...but other than that escaped in pretty good shape.  I was lucky.  Juan wasn't, as it seems he took it pretty much in the eye/cheek bone region.  I hope the guy can get back to playing next year, but more than that, I hope the guy can lead a normal life and not feel pain or anything in his face for several years...You never know with those massive facial injuries.

On a lighter note, congrats to Tony La Russa for becoming the all time wins leader.  I agree with just about everything thats been said so far...The guy cares more about winning and being respected than he does about "being liked."  The guy unfailingly sticks to his guns, and is willing to stand behind any move he makes on/off the field.  I'm sure he's not the easiest guy to play for, but you can't argue with his results.  He's won everywhere he's been: Chicago, Oakland, and St. Louis.  I think he's a guy who won't be appreciated until he's gone and some shlub is managing the team.  Then I think everyone will realize that La Russa was one of the better-hires the Cards have made in their history.  

by redbirdnation8206 on Sep 1, 2007 1:39 PM EDT reply actions  

respect vs. "being liked"
i agree with the previous posts about tony, but this comment really struck a chord with me.

don't laugh (too hard) but tony reminds me of the parents who are more focused on raising good kids than on being the most popular parents around. they are the parents who make their decisions based on what they believe is in the best interests of their family -- just as tony makes decisions based on what he believes is in the best interests of his ball club. the kids may grumble and complain, but they respect their parents and know that they are trying to give them their best chance to succeed -- just as tony may tick off his players on occasion, but they respect him and know that he is always doing what he believes will give his team the best chance to win games. the parents don't mind that they aren't the most popular parents because they are confident they are doing the best job of parenting they can do -- just as tony seems not to need the approval or fawning of the media or fans because he is confident in his abilities as a successful manager and his track record. not a perfect analogy, i know, but i do see some interesting parallels and a chance to apply some of his admirable qualities to my own life...

anyway, my hearty congratulations to tony on his exceptional run with the cardinals and his tremendous success throughout his managerial career.

by acham8206 on Sep 1, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that's a fair analogy....
and I would take it one step further.  Look at the way he celebrates when his kids do something good: the World Series last year, Rick's first game back dinger, the dude is not made of ice, he's just intense.

by Brock20 on Sep 1, 2007 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree
with brock20, that this was a pretty good analogy, and i think in the long run, most of the players are better off for having tony as manager, and i am sure that, as with some parents, once in a while, the approach doesnt work, but most often it does
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Sep 1, 2007 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since it is the game thread and all...
Dumatrait has a 2.85 WHIP this year...not ERA, but WHIP.  That is the highest of anyone we've faced this year, as far as I know.  Here's to hoping that my gut feeling of a blowout win, and Pujols going 3-4 with a double and a homer before being pulled to rest come true.

Also, why do we have Waino starting this game?  Could we hold him off to face a different starter?  Anyway, guess we wouldn't want to take him out of his routine at this point...he has been pitching well lately.  knock on wood - for those superstitious posters.

stlfan

by stlfan on Sep 1, 2007 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't forget
this pitcher is a lefty who we haven't seen before....and the cardinals have a knack for falling flat against ANY pitcher who meets that characteristic.

Not to mention the fact that now without the RH bats of Rolen and Encarnacion we really, really lack the type of RH attack needed vs. lefties.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Should the Cardinals give Rasmus a look?
With Juan's career potentially over or atleast this season being done, should Rasmus be given a look in September?  If the kid show promise, he could actually be added to the playoff eligible roster as he would be filling in for an injured player (I believe).
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 1, 2007 2:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Regarding September Call Ups
Have they been decided on yet?  Who can we anticipate seeing?
Recall Anthony Reyes!

by Big Mike on Sep 1, 2007 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd do it
but I'm not the GM. I think if he got just some spot playing time and pitch hitting, he'd do reasonably well and it would be a good thing for him. We'll see...but we don't really need another LH bat right now.
Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 1, 2007 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gooch and Ludwick
are the only RH hitting OF on the 40-man roster right now, with Enc gone. Mather and Stavinoha, both RH aren't on the 40, and neither is Rasmus. One spot on the 40 will need to be held for Mulder when he comes back, but other than that, there'll have to be some shuffling around if any of these guys are brought up. I don't envy Jocketty right now.

by cardsrul on Sep 1, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed
We should have another RH OF bat. The only question is, who should it be?
Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 1, 2007 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we were out of the pennant race
I'd be more inclined to give him a looksie.  But not right now.  There's exactly 1 month left in the season.  We basically need to win every game, not give 21 year olds tryouts.

by Big Red on Sep 1, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

3-1 Cubs
ARam just hit a 2 run bomb to give the Cubs the lead in the Bot 6.

Bi-Polar Betty is pitching a gem.  Apparently, per Pat and Ron yesterday, Marquis only pitches well after the Cubs lose the game before.  Go figure.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 1, 2007 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Double by Lee
groundout
groundout
run scores 3-2 Cubs
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 1, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Overshadowed
With the Ankiel grand slam and the Juan injury one of the things that got lost in the shuffle was that every string TLR pulled last night turned to gold.  Pull Reyes after 1+: bullpen holds.  Pull Wellemeyer even though he'd been solid: no problem.  Pinch hit with Wainwright: base hit.  Let Flores throw two full innings: no runs.  Stick with the lefties despite a ton of southpaws in the Cinci pen: Rich takes a lefty deep.  Tony is fond of saying that if moves work you are brilliant and if the don't you're an idiot.  Well last night they all worked, and the Birds overcame Reyes.  Nice to see on a nice night for Tony.

by k randolph on Sep 1, 2007 2:45 PM EDT reply actions  

that is...
Rick.  I'd hate for that to be the new "Edwards"

by k randolph on Sep 1, 2007 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rich Ankiel
It's funny that we keep getting players with the same last name: Cris Carpenter and Chris Carpenter, Rick Ankiel and Rich Ankiel, both Ludwicks.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 1, 2007 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

For you college football fans
# 5 Michigan is currently loosing to Appach State in the 3rd quarter at the Big House.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 1, 2007 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Is this game on tv?
outside of espnu or the pay package?

by Big Red on Sep 1, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's not good
my Oregon Ducks have to play at Michigan next week.
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Sep 1, 2007 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lived
in Eugene from 97-00; the Ducks are ~fairly~ popular 'round that city s.
"Don't try to figure this game out"--S. Rolen

by glennrwordman on Sep 1, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah
they've got a few fans there.  I lived there from 93-97.
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Sep 1, 2007 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Roster
anyone know they call ups all STL said was Schumaker and that no move is expected regarding juan yet due the call ups...i want to knwo the call ups so if you find a link let me know
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 4:00 PM EDT reply actions  

roster moves
I'd imagine we won't know until around when the lineups are posted for tonight's game (check the bench on the gameday link.)

there's also this list - other teams' moves today

Acquire some runs!

by madding on Sep 1, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Poor Juan
I doubt we'll ever see him on the field for the Cardinals again.  If it caved his sinius wall, who knows how long it will be before he can even fly anywhere.  That is, if he maintains his eyesight.

Looking forward, now the Cardinals have to find a RH outfield bat in 2008.  Top FA candidates are Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, Torii Hunter as far as longterm commitments.  The Cardinals won't sign any of those 3.  So, then the question becomes "Who can we trade Reyes for to fill that spot?".

What a strange turn of events.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 1, 2007 4:57 PM EDT reply actions  

What else can go wrong at this point?
Well after Encarnacion's freak injury, it has become very apparent that the Cardinals sold their souls in exchange for last year's title, huh? Just the major issues in chronological order: La Russa's DUI, Carpenter goes out for the year, the death of Josh Hancock, Spiezio checks in to rehab, Rolen goes out for the year, and now Encarnacion. Not to mention Mulder, Kinney, and Preston Wilson missing virtually the entire season, the nagging injuries to Pujols, Edmonds, and Eckstein, and the disaster of a rotation we saw for the majority of the summer. All I can say is thank God for Rick Ankiel. Yet still just 2 games out.

by LukeMP1186 on Sep 1, 2007 5:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I theorized
earlier this year about the cardinals selling their soul for a 2006 championship....and that was before half of this crap happend....what a disaster of a year...and yet still 2.5 games back...

Say what you will but TLR deserves manager of the year for keeping this team in contention. Even if we DON't win the division.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

they didn't sell their souls...
they greatly annoyed the baseball gods (lower case g) when they were swept in the 2004 world series by the red sox...
Just remember -- if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 1, 2007 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Encarnacion
I remember being irritated when they signed him and irritated when he wasn't traded during the offseason. That said, he had become a bit of an anti-hero in St. Louis....I didn't hate the guy, but we have too many outfielders and somebody needed to get traded and I was hoping it would be Enc.

Now, after having seen the replay of it, I'm pretty sure he's done for as a baseball player. I'm just hoping the guy is able to see again out of that eye, forget playing baseball. Good luck, Instant Breakfast.

And here's hoping Miles is able to get over that....this season has just been completely snakebitten and star-crossed, hasn't it?

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 6:07 PM EDT reply actions  

and by the way
I'd like to reiterate my call for Pujols to sit every once in a damn while. Today, with the lefty, probably not, but the guy needs just a couple days off here and there or else he's going to go down for the season like Rolen has.

Come to think of it, Rolen probably should have gotten some time off too, but our situation at third base ain't pretty....

Is Branyan going to be playing today?

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I completely agree
about Pujols.  everyone is going to need an off day here and there but especially Pujols.  it makes me cringe to see him limping around like that.
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Sep 1, 2007 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

lineups per yahoo
D. Eckstein ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .288  
R. Ankiel rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .328  
A. Pujols 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .317  
R. Ludwick lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .249  
J. Edmonds cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .252  
Y. Molina c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .278  
M. Cairo 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000  
A. Wainwright p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .286  
B. Ryan 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .315

J. Hamilton cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .278  
J. Keppinger 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .361  
K. Griffey Jr. rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .286  
B. Phillips 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .290  
A. Dunn lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .263  
A. Gonzalez ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .271  
S. Hatteberg 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .306  
D. Ross c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .204  
P. Dumatrait p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000

Acquire some runs!

by madding on Sep 1, 2007 6:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Are you sure
Cairo's at second and Ryan's at third? Now that doesn't make a damn bit of sense....

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know what to think
I'd imagine Ryan has the stronger arm... but... who knows.
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Sep 1, 2007 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd imagine
that TLR wants Ryan to become a capable 3B, maybe as a contingency replacement for Rolen next year.

by lawman3842 on Sep 1, 2007 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ryan,
in my opinion, doesn't have the bat to be a third basemen. I'd rather just they let him start at short or second.
On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Sep 1, 2007 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

bizarre
Tony kept saying how Ryan isn't a real solution at 3b - this indicates that he IS versus LH pitching

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

like they said they would stand pat
and next day add Branyan
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aaron Miles is no longer the worst player
on the Cardinals.  Welcome back Miguel Cairo -- how long until management realizes that experience doesn't make up for a lack of talent.
Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Sep 1, 2007 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Miles
has made quite a few timely hits for a "worst player" award.
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Sep 1, 2007 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

no kidding
I mean, I'm not endorsing him for Cooperstown, but jeez....

But Miles' OPS for the 2006 postseason was .962. Yeah, small sample size, blah blah blah. Whatever.

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

tell me that you are both are joking
Miles is quite obviously the worst player on the team outside of Gary Bennett (and now Cairo).  He's a negative with the bat and glove and he isn't even fast on the basepaths.  I'm shocked that anyone would even call that statement into question.

The two examples against it are a vague allusion to timely hits and his postseason OPS.  He has a negative WPA (so his hits can't be that timely) and postseason OPS is beyond meaningless when you have 1700+ regular season ABs to look at.  I'm all ears for a reasonable argument as to why he isn't.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Sep 1, 2007 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

*somebody*
has to be a utility infielder/second stringer. If we got rid of Miles they'd be plugging somebody else in....he's essentially a replacement-level player and he switch hits and can play a bunch of different positions. What more can you ask for? I just don't get why Miles specifically is so much worse than [other replacement level player]....

And anyway, if we're going by WPA, Miles has been the eighth-worst player on the 07 Cardinals.

Kennedy -2.06
Eckstein -1.13
Bennett -1.00
Edmonds -0.95
Rolen -0.75
Spiezio -0.72
Reyes -0.72
Miles -0.49

Again I'm not saying he's terrific or that he deserves to be starting, but I think you're being overly harsh on him....as soon as Miles is out the door somebody like Cairo will fill in for him. We've got more glaring needs right now than replacing our backup middle infielder.

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not a WPA fan
although I used it to refute the timely hit argument (WPA/LI is better as a predictive stat -- WPA itself does a good job of tracking value added in a past sense).  Eckstein hasn't been great this year but he's at last an average defender at short; Miles isn't.  The problem I have is that as much time as Miles sees on this TLR team the difference between him and an average offensive 2Bman or a defensive whiz might be half a win.  It's marginal upgrades like that which could be the difference between the Cardinals making the postseason or not.
Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Sep 1, 2007 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

TLR just said our 'scouting' has issues....
In  the pregame show, he basically said that "our scouting/drafting may have issues, but when we get players we develop them. We have a great development system"

Sounds like a blatant jab at Lunhow et al. or am I reading too much into this????

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 6:51 PM EDT reply actions  

They also didn't even mention Juan
Mike Shannon brought up the bullpen last night, Ankiel, and Wainwright today - no mention of Juan's plight whatsoever! WTF!??!

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Might TLR be saying...
...the installation of Lunhow et al. was undertaken with the implication that the previous scouting core had 'issues'...

Or...

he's directly implying that Lunhow et al. have issues.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

callups per gameday roster
cavazos, jimenez, maroth (activated), schumaker
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Sep 1, 2007 7:03 PM EDT reply actions  

any one know what hospital Juan's in?
i'd like to send the guy a card or something. the only one i can think of is Barnes. at least i think that's it name. i think its off a st. charles rock road in maryland hights. or bridgeton. i forget, i know it's close to where my aunt & uncle live, and they live in maryland hights.

what a terrible injury and a terrible thing to happen to a good guy & teammate. i pray to GOD the dude can just have a normal life after this. who cares if he can play a childs game again when he is in danger of losing his left eye? i'm no fan of his play, but i never, EVER wanted to guy to be hurt. Bernie was right when he said today that the fans, media & coaches were right to call Juan out about his lazy play, and lack of concentration on the field. but no one wanted the guy to get hurt. especially as serious as he is now. get well soon Juan.

GO CARDINALS

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 7:27 PM EDT reply actions  

#3
I guess Preston Wilson doesn't need his number anymore.
Acquire some runs!

by madding on Sep 1, 2007 7:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Everyone must be asleep
I thought something might have been wrong after no comments for a half hour.

by hannah_in_va on Sep 1, 2007 8:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Wainer
does not seem to have his command tonight....

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 8:07 PM EDT reply actions  

That could have been way worse
Having Ankiel out their in right is the only reason I can see that Griffey didn't tag up and score on that fly ball.. I'm just watching gameday..how shallow was that fly ball?

Wainer keeps you in the game even when he doesn't have it.  It would be nice if the lineup could get something going against a 15+ ERA guy for once and get him off the hook.

by cloistermaximus on Sep 1, 2007 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

deep shallow
if that makes any sense....if it were anyone else in RF (save Vlad, insert other sick arm here, etc), they would have sent him.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Back home from the game...
That was an absolutely sick throw Ankiel made.  He hit Yadi on one hop in the chest about two feet up the line, absolutely spot on.  He would've nailed anybody trying to score on that.  Crowd gave him a good hand, too.

by Phyrkrakr on Sep 2, 2007 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

I guess most people
have more exciting things to do on a Saturday night than watch baseball and post on a cpu...

...I'm a loser...

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 8:13 PM EDT reply actions  

no one is a bigger loser than i
i just had to take a quick shower, and now i'm going to eat some dinner. but i'm here & watching.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

another big loser
checking in.

i'm here but not really that into tonight's game because i keep thinking about juan. and i keep thinking if i'm so disinterested and preoccupied, how hard must it be for our guys to focus?

by acham8206 on Sep 1, 2007 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Writing papers makes me ADD
I hardly have to write anything, but doing it in less than an hour is too logical.

by hannah_in_va on Sep 1, 2007 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

best wishes for Juan
hope he recovers his sight
From Curaçao, the friendly island in the Caribbean

by Johnny64 on Sep 1, 2007 8:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, I guess something has to replace
"Jimmy would have had it", which was whenever So was in center.

by hannah_in_va on Sep 1, 2007 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brendan
seems to dive a lot - but unlike Rolen, the ball doesn't end up in his glove

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dumatrait
the guy's ERA has dropped a couple runs since the beginning of the game....this is pathetic.

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 8:33 PM EDT reply actions  

he's a lefty, the cards haven't seen him...
...and he breathes...

THEREFORE

We don't score many runs.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just joining the thread tonight
I skimmed through the comments I missed. Did I read that Rolen is officially done forthe year, too? Geez.

I want to believe in this team, but if the time after Hancock's death was any indicator, this team may not be too great at adjusting to tough luck blows.

Lets get a few runs here, boys.

.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 1, 2007 8:38 PM EDT reply actions  

yep
muuuch better...now let's get some runs.

by acham8206 on Sep 1, 2007 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cubs won today
and Milwaukee is blowing out the Pirates....wonder if they're snapping out of their funk....

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 8:46 PM EDT reply actions  

It's the Pirates
not every team beats the good ones and gets blown out by the bad ones

by hannah_in_va on Sep 1, 2007 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok Cards, let's do it now
Eck do your thing, let's do it now
From Curaçao, the friendly island in the Caribbean

by Johnny64 on Sep 1, 2007 8:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Rank the pitchers
for hitting... Is Wainwright the best?

by KOA Cards on Sep 1, 2007 8:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah. Nice AB
C'mon El Hombre. You the mang.
.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 1, 2007 8:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Ludwick hit a SF
please
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 8:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Lets go Lud
I wanna see back-to-back games with grand slams from our Memphis all stars.
.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 1, 2007 8:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Or that'll do
lucky the ump didn't call Albie on that.
.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 1, 2007 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK, now it's tied
get some more boys
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 8:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Jimmy
woot
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 8:59 PM EDT reply actions  

YES JIMMY!
now that's what i'm talking about.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 8:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Edwards 4 prez!
NICE JIMMY!!!!
.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 1, 2007 9:00 PM EDT reply actions  

on GD
looks like he missed it by less than a foot....

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 9:02 PM EDT reply actions  

edit
looks like [Edmonds] missed [a HR] by less than a foot, is what I meant to say.

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your name
reflects my feelings on the ksdk broadcast tonight with their lack of discussion and due respect for Juan.

They have barely even mentioned him...

Mike Shannon brought it up quickly in the 4th inning and Jay Randolph said 'tough deal' right before he went into his call of a pitch...and then it hasn't been spoken of again...

"Tough deal"??!?

Understatement of the year...

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

now they bring it up again....
...only because with Miles at the plate, they can't help but remember.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

man
that's just terrible news. Hopefully they can save his eye....

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice to see
the guys trying to take care of him. As someone with optic nerve damage from an eye infection, I can say it'll probably be difficult for Juan to play again, if there's any kind of serious damage, which there seems to be. I just hope he'll be able to see out of that eye again. Get well, Juan. We're pulling for you.
Call up Jarrett Hoffpauir!

by player2bnamedl8r on Sep 1, 2007 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

no chemistry?
Miles Joel P Ap and Molina go to see the guy..Ap who gets ripped alot has to be told to go home..I knwo they are friends but still..I think it's cool Joel P went He hasnt been a bird that long...

Hope he gets doing better...I've heard alot of "he may never lay again" it's like Jimmy last yr iwhen they had no clue how he was..i just hope his life remains well...it could premanently change.

07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not for Juan it wouldn't be.
Or his wife.  I assume he's married.
"Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." --Churchill

by lordsummer on Sep 1, 2007 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Play
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

GO YADDA
its your birthday, get an RBI.

GO YADDA, GO YADDA, GO GO GO YADDA

saweet

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 9:05 PM EDT reply actions  

if he keeps this up
through september, will he get his much-deserved gold glove?

by acham8206 on Sep 1, 2007 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

aren't some folks
claiming this dodger dude might get it?

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

without a doubt
russell martin's offensive stats are far superior to yadi's. but i guess i'm wondering how much offensive numbers factor into what is supposedly a defensive award. if it's defense alone, yadi should get it. if it's 90% D, 10% O, yadi should get it.

then again, ausmus won last year...who the hell knows what the criteria are?

by acham8206 on Sep 1, 2007 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

okay, i'm with you.
so if yadi's offense is keeping him from getting the gold glove, can anyone explain the double-standard that allowed ausmus to win three times in the last decade despite his lackluster bat?

and if martin wins, shouldn't they just change the name to "gold bat"?

by acham8206 on Sep 1, 2007 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I heard
Martin has a real solid glove too.

The way it works is that voters get used to voting for certain players. Ausmus used to be a stellar defender AND a pretty solid hitter. This gave him a number of GG. Last season was like a 'grandfathered' gold glove; a sign the voters are too lazy to notice that Yadi is clearly better with the glove (and maybe with the bat too if you threw in his 06 postseason).

In any case, Yadi should f-in win it this year - hands down. He's got to, right?!??! And conventional wisdom is - once you win one, you're in line for many more in the future.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 2, 2007 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

if they give the gold glove to martin
every person who voted for him should lose their right to vote for the gold glove. sure he's a better hitter than YADDA. but when it comes to catching, calling a game & completly shutting down a running game, martin isn't half the catcher YADDA is.

i dont care if he is dating Alyssa Milano.  

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think 10-run Sundays have been replaced by
breakout 5th innings. Where are my statheads? I want numbers to prove or disprove this!
.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 1, 2007 9:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Molina
is really turning into a tough out, isn't he?

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 9:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Do you think Oquendo
Is the heir apparent for replacing Tony?

by KOA Cards on Sep 1, 2007 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes.
there is no secret weapon...there is only Oquendo.

by bukowski on Sep 1, 2007 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Waino over 100 pitches now
he's making me nervous....if they score again he should come out....

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 9:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Sit down Hamilton!
how many times do we have to hear what a great story it is for him to overcome his drug addiction.  What a role model.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 1, 2007 9:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, you have to admit...
there aren't many stories like that in MLB.  You know, with seemingly failed top prospects returning in a blaze of glory.  Nope not many of those, especially not on the Cardinals.  drowns in sheer volume of sarcasm

by hannah_in_va on Sep 1, 2007 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

When you google August 22, 1982...
with no other words - you get that box score - that's some crazy shit

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm glad that Josh Hamilton was able to turn
his life around, but I'm sick of hearing about it everytime he appears on the screen.  I'm ecstatic about what Ankiel has done, too.  But I don't want to hear about it either anymore.  Nor do I want to see clips of his pitching meltdown anymore. I want them to talk about how he's developing as a hitter and outfielder.  That's where he's at now. Yay to everyone who overcame difficulties....that probably includes every human walking the earth, and rememeber Juan in your prayers.

by jillsinmo on Sep 1, 2007 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ankiel
2-run double....nice to be getting these XBHs with runners on....

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 9:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Ankiel
I realize his stint has been short, but has success and incredible story locked up the comeback player of the year?  Who is the competition?

by bretsyboo on Sep 1, 2007 9:35 PM EDT reply actions  

the thing that amazes me about him
is he's hit in pressure situations, and hasnt melted..well see whata playoff game would do..maybe
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, izzy has to be there.
look for guys that sucked last year. izzy, derek lee, etc.

by ortic jones on Sep 1, 2007 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm totally buying a Rick Ankiel jersey
I wish I had one with his old number, like Will Leitch.
.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 1, 2007 9:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't look now..
but Yadi's BA is higher than Eckstein's.  Hmmm...

by hannah_in_va on Sep 1, 2007 9:36 PM EDT reply actions  

When was the last time
the other team wanted to pitch to Jimmy with the bases loaded?
there is no secret weapon...there is only Oquendo.

by bukowski on Sep 1, 2007 9:40 PM EDT reply actions  

This september
is a lot more fun than last september. So far, at least.
.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 1, 2007 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

YADI!!!!!!!
Just because there wasn't one tonight that I saw.

BTW, the announces on "Spewschannel 4" suck.

The quote of the night so far:

"Is this going to be a September to remember and an October...

<pause>
<pause>

...um, enjoy?"

Seriously.

there is no secret weapon...there is only Oquendo.

by bukowski on Sep 1, 2007 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Jay Randolph
is just old.

His play by play tone has two inflections - normal and elevated.

He can't ever seem to grasp the words needed to describe the play.

Ricky Horton is a total dork, but I like him and - unlike Dan and Al at times - he's not afraid to be critical of cardinal players when they deserve it.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, he is a tool
but less boring that Al and Dan by far!

I don't mind hearing ole Jay from time to time.  When Shannon sits in for a few innings they seem to work well together.

It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 1, 2007 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love Mikey Shannon
But by "work well" I think you mean "get along well"...they're always laughing and trading stories...but Jay doesn't really add anything special to it...Shannon has all the insight. Like tonight, for example, he was able to explain the nuances of infield 'hops' and their effect on the play. It was great.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

WOW, the Natti's D sucks
Rick Ankiel will never have to buy another meal in the state of Missouri ever again.

like you fisk, i'm so getting his jersey.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Did they just say
hydrocholoric acid to clean the eye out?

I could've sworn they did...

there is no secret weapon...there is only Oquendo.

by bukowski on Sep 1, 2007 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, a little acid
is good for ur eyes

by KOA Cards on Sep 1, 2007 9:46 PM EDT reply actions  

10-2
man, once this team starts scoring runs things have a tendency to snowball, don't they?

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 9:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Can anybody explain
why hit for Johnson when we have an 8 run lead and Johnson had only thrown 5 pitches?

by thomaslj on Sep 1, 2007 9:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I can see keeping Johnson fresh
but why bring in Springer?  This is the best time to have Jimenez or Cavazos pitch.

by outraged on Sep 1, 2007 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Springer "likes the work"
I've noticed him being thrown into many blowout games...until he starts looking tired and ineffective, I don't have a problem with it.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess that they needed a 9 run lead
before being willing to pitch Cavazos?

by thomaslj on Sep 1, 2007 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

great catch LUD!
not a DUD on that play.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 9:50 PM EDT reply actions  

No hitter going in Fenway
Clay Bucholz with the no-no through 8.
there is no secret weapon...there is only Oquendo.

by bukowski on Sep 1, 2007 9:53 PM EDT reply actions  

and according to the Cincy broadcasters
he used to be an Astros prospect.  Think they're confusing him with Taylor.

by outraged on Sep 1, 2007 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm so entrenched in cardinals
and I'm in Mass....I didn't hear about this until there were two outs in the 9th?!?!?

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

A couple more runs
and it might be safe to pitch Jimenez.  Maybe.

by CardFaninVA on Sep 1, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

when did ECK become a fly ball hitter?
seriously stop popping every thing up dude.

OK, that's the only bad thing i have to say about tonight. i promise.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I think his weakness is high pitches.
In each league it took a year or 2 for the pitchers to figure that out, and the NL guys have him nailed now. If he's gonna keep swinging at that crap, he basically has no value any more.
"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 1, 2007 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can anyone send a link to the community
pre-season prediction for wagontrainwright?  I'm curious; I think it was like 15 wins.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 1, 2007 10:05 PM EDT reply actions  

thank you sir. yeah can't complain...
he wasn't even really sharp tonight but he knows how to battle.  He's a frontline starter.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 1, 2007 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt
It's awesome when he's dominant (and adds a couple hits of his own for good measure), but these games where he struggles but still goes ~6 innings with 1-2 earned runs are really nice to see.

Imagine having a healthy Carp and Wainwright leading the rotation as we head into the post-season after running away with this sorry division....

by BTown Birds fan on Sep 1, 2007 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

amen to that.
if only that tenacity were teachable...

by acham8206 on Sep 1, 2007 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

this seems like a good time
to rest your starters, tony.

by twentyfour on Sep 1, 2007 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Cavazos
stinks.

His picture in GD is even more hilarious than his pitching....

by nota bene on Sep 1, 2007 10:10 PM EDT reply actions  

wow...
bucholz one strike away from a no-no...fenway is goin nuts!

by lopey986 on Sep 1, 2007 10:10 PM EDT reply actions  

wow...
froze the hitter with a wagonmaker-esque curveball to get the no-hitter.

by lopey986 on Sep 1, 2007 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

no no in bean town
that place is going nuts.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

lucky for buchholz...
when he has a no-no goin his offense backs him up and takes all the pressure off him. when reyes had a no-no goin in Chicago our offense was even more atrocious then the Sox offense.

by lopey986 on Sep 1, 2007 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Jay Randolph just mentioned it
with the same inflection as he mentioned what he ate for dinner.

AAAAARGH!!!!

there is no secret weapon...there is only Oquendo.

by bukowski on Sep 1, 2007 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

could we not go one night
without a poor anthony reyes line?
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm in Massachusetts
minding my own business, watching some cardinals fans...a few friends called me when there was two out in the 9th - I had no idea.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

what does it take
to be an ice road trucker?

balls, balls & balls.

sorry, but i love that show. i'm soooo going to do that one winter.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

now he's the next big thing
he has historic company with wilson alvarez...wonder how his career turned out?
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Sep 1, 2007 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now pitching for Cincy...
John "Cunnilingus" as Randolph just said it.

What will be funny is when he says

"Cunnilingus has two balls against the batter"

Ok...my juvenile humor is done.

there is no secret weapon...there is only Oquendo.

by bukowski on Sep 1, 2007 10:19 PM EDT reply actions  

A woman in the stands is being attended to after
being hit by Duncan's flying bat. With the terrible incident with Juan and all the close calls on hard-hit balls last night, there is some bad juju around the infield at Busch....

by BTown Birds fan on Sep 1, 2007 10:25 PM EDT reply actions  

You can't control Frankenstein's monster
bat's will fly
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 1, 2007 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

MMMMmmmm!
Pine tar...BAD!!!
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Sep 2, 2007 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

i got a feeling some nets or plexiglass
are going to be installed around the majors in the very near future. with as close to the action as the seats are in the new stadiums it's getting way to dangerious to not have something there protecting the fans.

take the new Huntington Field they are building here in Columbus for the AAA Clippers. they are having nets go from behind the plate to the far end of both dugouts. so all fans are protected, not just the ones right behind home plate. i dont have a problem with that at all.

of course after that little girl was killed at a Blue Jackets game a few years ago, the NHL had each team nets put up almost all the way around the ice. i'd hate to see a fan have to die before MLB has each team put nets or plexiglass up to protect the fans.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

injury delay?
Percival? uh oh
"We're too talented to let this season go down the drain." - Adam Wainwright

by stltrav09 on Sep 1, 2007 10:29 PM EDT reply actions  

did you see what he said to Tony
as he left the mound?

needless to say, he's pissed.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds like it's very precautionary
According to Shannon, Percival is pissed about leaving but TLR doesn't want to take any chances with an 8 run lead.

by BTown Birds fan on Sep 1, 2007 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reds guys said it was a crap
so he should be OK.

still it was funny to see Percy tell Tony to F off as he walked off the mound.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you mean to say "cramp"?
Cuz if not, I've never been more sorry to only get these games on the radio.

I don't have a shit fetish or anything, but when are you going to see that again?

by BTown Birds fan on Sep 1, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

dude this is the only time i'm glad
i dont have an HDTV. that was nasty. the FSN Cincinnati camera's focused in on Percy's back side and,,,,

wow. someone needs to get Lboros to add an edit button. a spell check would be the awesome as well.

yes i ment craMp. i'm an idiot.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 2, 2007 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

From the AP story at Yahoo:
"Cardinals reliever Troy Percival left after three pitches to start the ninth after feeling a pop in a quadriceps muscle. He told manager Tony La Russa he had walked it off, but La Russa thought best to take him out."

by BTown Birds fan on Sep 2, 2007 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good..
We can't lose Percival..

Side note.. I'm really upset with the way he's been used this year.  

"We're too talented to let this season go down the drain." - Adam Wainwright

by stltrav09 on Sep 1, 2007 10:31 PM EDT reply actions  

he did need the work
but I'd still rather have seen Jimenez start the inning and have Percy pitch tomorrow.

by outraged on Sep 1, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree
Why isn't he used in higher stakes situations??!? He hasn't given us any reason to doubt him.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 1, 2007 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

And That's A Winner!!
back to .500. never thought i'd see that this season. good game gents. good game.

now go get the sweep tomorrow.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2007 10:37 PM EDT reply actions  

If Rolen is to have surgery
and will be out 6-8 weeks with it, then even though it is season ending, should the Cardinals advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs, is it feasible Rolen could play?  I don't ever want this team to have to play another NLCS without Scott Ro...well, atleast until he retires.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2007 1:06 AM EDT reply actions  

6 Weeks would put him right around
the start of the NLCS.  

Rolen, if they believed he was healthy enough to play, could be added to the roster before the NLCS.

Of course, the Cardinals would actually have to make the playoffs for this to matter.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2007 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno...
Sounds more like they want to do the surgery and then shut him down until spring.  If he's not 100%, we're probably better off in the long run letting him heal properly and prepare for 2008.

Of course, the plan might always change if we do manage to take over 1st place...

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Sep 2, 2007 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

And even in that situation
I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel giving a roster spot in the NLCS to a guy who hasn't played in almost 2 months and just had surgery on his shoulder

by Big Red on Sep 2, 2007 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd rather give it to him
than Russell Branyan and Miguel Cairo.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2007 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd rather not
see Rolen until Spring Training 2008.  He just needs to rest that shoulder and get better.  I would love to see Rolen be even 2/3 the player he used to be.
Spantalones

by spants on Sep 2, 2007 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

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