Back, back, back, back

by Valatan on Aug 8, 2007 12:59 PM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News

So, my two week journey snaking through Cardinals and Cubs country in the midwest has finally come to its end, leaving me plopped back in Texas. I took the lady friend to her first Cardinals game, and because the Cardinals seem to gloriously bless me in the few and far in-between games that I am able to attend, we were gifted with the fantasticitude of a ten run inning. I still can't believe the feeling in that stadium before and after that outburst--a collective tension as Looper and Wells put up zeroes, followed by mild frustration after the Adrian Gonzalez home run, followed by dread at getting Looperified yet again as four runs ended up on the board. It actually ended up with the following exchange:

Valatan: Ugh. Looper, shame he ha to start the one game we could go to

Lady: Well, would you have rather stayed in St. Louis for another day so we could see a good starter?

V: No, it's a chance for me to see the new stadium, and we have good seats, and it's fun to be here, and this isn't that much of a deficit--COME ON LOOP, YOU GAVE UP THOSE RUNS, GET A HIT, REDEEM YOURSELF

L: Well, are you less mad at him now that he got that hit?

V: Yes, at least he's trying to compete

It was almost like the baseballs gods were trying to smile upon me for my loyalty or something, because, of course, that hit was followed by ten more Cardinal hits, and ten more Cardinal runs, each of which brought the crowd back from it's sense of dread to a sense of genuine joy. Loop got a standing O as he left the mound, and nearly everyone left Busch Stadium happy that night. It was a wonderful cap to my sojourn in the Midwest

As for last night, I listened to the game on the radio while we drove back to Texas. There's a part of me that just wanted to go and hug Anthony Reyes after that loss. He finally gets a chance to take the ball, and he puts together one of his best starts, getting the ground balls that the team has been asking for, working the strike zone, and going deep in the game, and what does he get? He gets to face Jake Peavy at the top of his game, along with a shutdown Padres bullpen. Hopefully no one overreacts to that loss for Anthony, and Tony and Reyes build on that success.

Finally, just for fun,

	Avg	OBP	SLG
Rolen, Pre-Cortisone	.264	.339	.382
Rolen, Post-Cortisone	.291	.339	.527
Rolen, Career	.284	.373	.508

I know it's only fifty five at bats, but that Cortisone shot sure seems to have done wonders for Scottie, no? All of a sudden, he looks almost exactly like the player that he's always been, rather than the ghost that was wandering around third base for the first half of the season. After watching that loss last night, I know that it's hard to really hold up hope, but Rolen returning to form has always been absolutely critical to the Cardinals having any chances at success. Now if we could only get Edmonds hitting again...

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If not this year...

At least it bodes well for the future. The Cards are going to have Rolen at third. He needs to produce.

It's just nice to see that, with the scar tissue, they see something wrong and it appears to be fixable.

"Football represents the worse in American Society. It's violence interrupted by committee meetings." G. Will.

by cardsfansc72 on Aug 8, 2007 12:59 PM EDT reply actions

Reyes

I've noticed two problems, which are related, that Reyes has had this year. One is that he tends to nibble w/ runners on base, throwing off-speed pitches rather than fastballs. The 2nd is that his curve, in particular, isn't very good in that he can't throw it consistently for strikes.

Upon reading today's p-d a couple of comments re: Reyes stand out. Bernie referred to Reyes' "improved curve ball" and Goold referred to Reyes' curve ball as "his best ground ball pitch". If his curve ball is, indeed, "improved" and "his best ground ball pitch", then Reyes is a starter we can count on, if he's able to maintain it.

But prior to Bards' 1 out single that gave the Pads the lead, Duncan went out to the mound and told Reyes "they neeeded a ground ball here". Reyes threw the curve and Bard bounced it through the infield for the hit. He got the grounder, but it wasn't right at someone.

From this, a couple of things jump out at me. The first is that I had been blaming Yadi for Reyes' nibbling w/ runners on base, since Reyes never shakes off Yadi. Clearly, that's the game plan as designed by Duncan, so Yadi -- you're off the hook. But it's important to remember that they didn't NEED a ground ball there. A double play would've been great, but a pop up or short fly ball or strikeout would've worked as well. Granted, a double play is better b/c the Pads might have been able to come up w/ a 2 out hit, but they didn't NEED the double play there. I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck that the scouting report on Reyes says, "Goes to curve ball in DP situations." He can get a DP w/ a fastball at the knees, but he can also get a K or a popup w/ a fastball up. He doesn't have to use the curve.

The other thing I noticed is that the friction between Duncan and Reyes may be misplaced and overblown. We've tended to see it as a 2-seamer vs. 4-seamer debate but, it seems more like Duncan really wants to see off-speed pitches w/ runners on base, rather than fastballs. Also, it's pretty clear that Reyes is doing what Duncan wants him to do. That may or may not be the best thing, but he seems to be doing what his pitching coach, and by extension his manager, wants him to do.

Nonetheless -- great outing by Reyes last night. I'm hopeful that he's turned the corner. If his curve is improved and can be thrown consistently for strikes, we have ourselves a starter.

by chuckb on Aug 8, 2007 1:13 PM EDT reply actions

re the "need a groundball" thing

i noticed it too, and like you i chafed at it. how about a strikeout? reyes is a strikeout pitcher, not a groundball pitcher; how about letting him do something he is good at?

it's noteworthy to me that after yielding the rbi single he got out of the inning on two fly balls. in most of his successful at-bats with men on base last night, he retired the hitter either on a flyball or a strikeout:

# ab with men on base: 16
line drives: 1 (a hit)
groundballs: 5 (2 hits, 3 outs)
flyballs: 6 (all outs)
strikeouts: 2

by lboros on Aug 8, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions

oops --- edit

# of at-bats with men on should read "14"

by lboros on Aug 8, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions

noteworthy

Those 2 flyballs still would have scored that run, correct?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2007 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions

yes, a flyball still would have scored the run

if hit deep enough. but a flyball would have been an out, as opposed to a hit . . . . a strikeout, of course, would not have scored the run.

and --- most on point here --- a flyball / popup / strikeout is the type of result that is easy for reyes to get. inducing groundballs does not come naturally to him. . . . . .

by lboros on Aug 8, 2007 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions

great minds....

thought the same thing when I read it in the paper this morning. I seem to recall that in the World Series, Duncan gave him the ball and told him to basically let it rip, and it worked out beautifully. Granted, I'm sure there was the added pressure of it being the World Series, but why not now in last night's situation? Just let the kid pitch.

Regardless, I still say kudos to Reyes because he did what they asked of him. Duncan wanted a groundball, and Reyes gave it to him. Can't fault him for that at all.

by SmashedAtoms on Aug 8, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Even if he wasn't a strikeout pitcher

at least try for the strikeout, popup, or short fly ball. Maybe you can get a strikeout but it shouldn't be your only option.

Aaron Cook of the Rockies has gotten more DP's this year than anyone in baseball. He is, definitely, NOT a strikeout pitcher and is clearly a much better ground ball pitcher than Reyes. He's gotten 30 DP's this year. He has 57 K's. Even Cook, in any given AB, has a better chance of getting a K than getting a DP. Why put all your eggs in one basket?

by chuckb on Aug 8, 2007 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions

I should also add

that one reason his 1 run innings have turned into big innings is b/c he's nibbled and ended up walking people. If he's throwing strikes more consistently w/ his curve ball, that's less of an issue. But, even if he gives up a fly ball there, he's down 1-0. If he nibbles, trying to get the DP, and ends up walking Bard, that could have easily turned into a 3 run inning.

It's unreasonable to expect Reyes, or any other pitcher, to pitch a shutout every time out. We didn't want to give up the run there, but 3 would have, basically, ended the game. As it turned out, it didn't matter. But even down 1-0, we were still in the game.

by chuckb on Aug 8, 2007 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Uh,,,

30 DP to 57 Ks is a HORRIBLE comparison. To get a DP you have to have a DP situation or at a minimum a guy on base, you can get a K on the leadoff man. I would like to see what percentage of times he gets a K with a runner on first versus getting a DP. In the end a pitcher like that is probably more likely to get the DP then the K.

Reyes on the other hand should have gone for the K/pop up with a grounder being a possible side effect. He got a grounder and it just happened to roll between AP and AK, not really his fault at all.

by StLHugo on Aug 8, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

VERY well said, hc...

as specific an analysis as I had read in a while...BUT, the overall issue of Anthony being allowed to pitch HIS way vs being forced to conform to the LaDunc theory way... has been tossed around for some time now.
Without resolution.
My cynical fear is that the law of averages will kick in for Reyes over the next few weeks (he HAS had some bad luck, in addition to the other factors) and that (resultant better numers) may be perceived as a 'turning the corner' thing.
Whereas in long term reality the Reyes/LaDunc marriage is not a good one.

by CurtFlood on Aug 8, 2007 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Rolen's Cortisone shot

Remember Larry Walker's neck? Cortisone shot's benefit usually don't last for long and they enable the player to destroy the underlying tissue without feeling it...only complicating matters in the future...meanwhile the rot occurs underneath. Is it really worth this year for him to pad his numbers? What cost will this have for him on the back end....that meaning '08 and beyond? So, before you praise the wonders of anesthetizing a healing wound (that probably never healed correctly)...consider the choice of sitting him out the rest of the year and letting him return healthy in '08.

mattnj

by mattnj on Aug 8, 2007 1:15 PM EDT reply actions

His shoulder will never be healthy...

he'll probably have it cleaned up again this offseason. Cortisone isn't going to hurt it.

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 8, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions

cortisone is not an anesthetic

it's an anti-inflammatory. He won't hurt himself any worse, and by reducing the inflammation it will help him heal faster (though it won't do anything about the scar tissue).

But you're right, it won't last forever.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 8, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions

perhaps . . ,

as the cortisone reduces inflamation and increases range of motion, scottie will be able to bust up some of the scar tissue that has been limiting him . . . one of the discussed options for him was to go under and have physicians "manipulate" the shoulder . . . ie, beat the heal out of it to loosen the joint up a bit . . .

Here's to the hopeful resurection of the MV3

by SprfldCards on Aug 8, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Where did you get this information?

Cortisone shots actually inhibit healing, weaken tendons, and soften cartilage. However, for some situations, like Rolen's, it is the only way to relieve the pain enough to play.

by googs77 on Aug 8, 2007 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions

thank you, googs

I'm not a doctor and Web-md is not my favorite internet site... but I have always understood cortisone (injections) to be a 'rob little peter to pay BIG PAUL' desperation move.
It eats away an irritating problem (swelling or scar tissue) yes, but doesn't it also eat the foundation?

by CurtFlood on Aug 8, 2007 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions

mostly from

the link that i put in the post you replied to. but I've had a couple of cortisone shots myself in the past and I can guarantee you that they have absolutely no anesthetic properties, which is what the post I initially replied to claimed. It hurts like crazy for a few days after the shot (though I may have experienced what the link calls "cortisone flare").

The rest of what you said is true, I think, except that some injuries (like the ones I had) simply can't heal until the swelling goes down; in those cases it helps significantly.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 8, 2007 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions

cortisone

No, cortisone is not an anaesthetic....making the pain disapear with an anti-inflamatory is a form dulling the body to pain...which was my point. I wish he would fess up and just sit out. He's the top 3b in baseball(outside of A-Rod) when he is healthy. Sometimes these injuries take more than 6-9 months to heal. Its not like he's 39 years old and looking for one more go around. Where did I get the info? School,talking to patients and looking at MRIs in my office here in NJ.

mattnj

by mattnj on Aug 8, 2007 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions

re reyes and groundballs

it should be pointed out that he got nearly twice as many air outs last night (12) as groundball outs (7).

by lboros on Aug 8, 2007 1:20 PM EDT reply actions

Yes.

Should have looked more closely at that box score--the radio sometimes isn't the best place for details

by Valatan on Aug 8, 2007 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions

it should also be pointed out

that he pitched very well and, as Bernie noted, "he didn't have anything close to his best fastball".

I'm on record as saying he needs to throw more fastballs -- both 2-seam and 4-seam. For most pitchers, it's the best pitch they can throw. For Reyes, I know he has a good change but his fastballs are better.

A better fastball makes his off-speed pitches that much better and would mean more K's as well. The point is -- he had great results w/ much less than his best stuff. I really believe he's turned a corner.

by chuckb on Aug 8, 2007 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions

He said in an interview after the game that he

was having trouble locating his fastball, so he had to adjust so he could get some outs.

by jillsinmo on Aug 8, 2007 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions

If the season over

for the Cards playoff chances, then those numbers for Rolen only further increase my belief that Rolen should be placed on the DL for the remainder of the season to rest his shoulder, do what (if any) surgery is necessary, and then rehab and strengthen in hopes that Rolen can return to something similar as to what we have seen post-shot this season. If the season is lost, there is no reason to trot him out there for August in September. With a long term investment in Rolen, it makes sense to try everything possible to return Rolen to 90% of his former self.

by JMedwick on Aug 8, 2007 1:21 PM EDT reply actions

Not to be smart alek but your plan has a

50% chance of success. The other side of that coin is that the scar tissue grows/gets worse 'cause Rolen isn't working the shoulder and he has to have the stuff cleaned out.

by sdrone on Aug 8, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions

And a

50% of maintain the status quo.

Tell me again where the downside is?

by JMedwick on Aug 8, 2007 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Since your status quo isn't 100%........

by sdrone on Aug 8, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Well

I think most would agree that at the All-Start break Rolen could really only go one way- up.

by JMedwick on Aug 8, 2007 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions

He can continue to rehab his shoulder

in other ways without playing baseball. Swinging baseball bats aren't usually the recommended exercises for bad shoulders. I'd guess that the trainers could come up with a rehab plan that would allow him to progress much more quickly if he wasn't playing baseball.

by googs77 on Aug 8, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions

In my opinion...

and I am certainly no doctor, no amount of rehabbing/resting will fix Scottie's shoulder. He's had numerous surgeries, numerous offseasons to relax/rehab it, and it still comes up lame every season.

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 8, 2007 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Only problem is...

the season isn't over, at least to management. Just one week ago we were buyers at the trade deadline (if you can call Joel Piniero a buy, perhaps a better term is we stayed neutral). I know that was before the Nationals and Pirates series debacles, but if the start of the season through July 31 didn't change the mind of management that they were out of this thing, then nothing probably will. At least until the Cards are mathematically eliminated.

Second and off topic, I had to share this link from over at Cardinals Diaspora. It's a great article on Bonds elbow pad and how that may have influenced his home runs more than any alleged steroid use.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003621797

"Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer." - Ted Williams

by WiscCard on Aug 8, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Two points.

If the team fails to realize what many fans have, then that is just an unfortunate part of reality. While the team likely won't move to "bench" Rolen for the remainder of the season, that doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do.
I understand that Rolen has had many surgeries before. But as we saw this past off-season, even the most casual of surgeries (clearing up scar tissue)can linger on in ways that are unexpected and unindented. Why not give Rolen the extra 1.5 to 2 months to have the surgery and come back from it.

As you said, really the only two things can happen by benching Rolen.

A. He improves in 2008.

B. The extra time doesn't make a difference and he remains the same.

Tell me again where the downside is. We know what the current state is like, Rolen is a ghost on offense. Moreover, where is the downside for 2007. The Cards are out of it anyway. There is no downside for such a move (other than maybe a negative reaction to such a plan from Rolen himself given his hyper-competitive nature).

by JMedwick on Aug 8, 2007 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions

the scar tissue can be rehabbed

Manipulated or removed by surgary. benching Rolen other than for rest makes little sense.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2007 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions

How does it make little sense

as I asked before, tell me what the downside is?

Is Rolen likely to get worse from rest, rehab, and strengthening?

by JMedwick on Aug 8, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

the percieved upside

is small. rolen can still perform now that they are treating it. if u are shutting down rolen, shut down pujols and get him his tj surgery, molina to rest the wrist, wainwright and loopers arms. no decisions like this should be made before 9/1

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions

re: the season isn't over, at least to management.

Here at work someone's got a dry erase board hanging with the "magic number" to clinch the division at 58, and I had to chuckle, wondering if the front office had a similar sign posted at the trade deadline.

:-)

by SmashedAtoms on Aug 8, 2007 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

But I don't

believe they're willing to concede the season just yet. If they go down to double digits in the standings, yes, but right now they seem to believe there is still a chance.

by rockin redbird on Aug 8, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm just impressed your girlfriend

understands the notion of a "starting pitcher" - I can't tell you how many times I've tried to explain the distinction between starting pitchers and relief pitchers and how starters 'rotate' day by day....

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2007 1:50 PM EDT reply actions

I've basicially explained baseball to her over the

course of the season, and she's developed the notion of the seesaw rotation pairing thing that they tried in single a this seeason, completely on her own

by Valatan on Aug 8, 2007 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Donna astuta e bella!

by liam on Aug 8, 2007 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions

As a female

I was about to be veeery offended by this. Estrogen has not prevented me from understanding this game pretty darn well. But...then I remembered that if I watch football with my guy this fall, he'll have to explain to me (for maybe the 10th time in my life) the difference between a safety and a touch-back. A girl can't understand absolutely every sport, I s'pose.

by ChiTown CardFan on Aug 8, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions

She's Italian

and hence, did not grow up around baseball, and only really started following it due to me.

by Valatan on Aug 8, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Hmmm

My wife's Italian, and she came from several generations of Birdfans, just like me. She isn't as obsessed as I am, but knows everything I know about the sport and our guys. You folks need to get your priorities in order when choosing a mate :-)

by rockin redbird on Aug 8, 2007 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I assume Val's lady is actually from Italy

and your wife is of Italian descent? So I can see why Val would need to introduce her to the best sport America has to offer: baseball.

by ChiTown CardFan on Aug 8, 2007 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Okay

Anthony looked great, his "fastball" may only be 90, but, paired with the change, it is from hades. We're six back with with 12 to play. I know that we're actually out of it.... But why the the the fuck do I still see something weird happening>

As much as I can hate TLR for this season, I can't hate him for not giving up. Now,if he's pairing for next season, bring up Ryan, Ankiel. Hoff, and Perez; I think the can make one of those moves... One of those "the have no usiness being here, but here they are" moves, circa 00, 01, 02, 06, and hopefully 07.

While I dont think this team has the talent to win, they may very well have the magic to come close.

Boooo-urns.

by Alxfritz on Aug 8, 2007 2:17 PM EDT reply actions

Aren't we 7 back...

...sorry to kill the buzz.

I - sadly - still have hope too.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2007 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions

cards hopes

To really have hope they need to shave atleast 1 maybe 2 games this week and get to 3 games back by september 1st. who knows.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Man, you are still

hanging onto that ledge by your fingernails, huh?

I'd probably join you, if I had more confidence that Cardinal management will learn the right lessons from this season.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 8, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions

I 'd have more hope if the following

This is the Scott Rolen we are getting the rest of the season
Jim Edmonds is getting into that 'zone' he was in right before he got injured. (Signs are pointing that way)
David Eckstein/Aaron Miles are on their way out
Pujols gets on one of those tears we know he can. These next two weeks would be great for that.
Wainwright and Reyes are left alone to pitch the way they've shown lately.
Wells keeps giving us 5 good innings.

Those things would give me more hope against a 'coming back to Earth' Cubs team and an exposed Brewers team.

And if the Cardinals are 6 games out after tonight? I may have a smirk on my face. Small one.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Regarding this list:

The first 2: You're kidding, right?
The 3rd: hahahahahaha
The 4th: Can you say, "IBB"?
The 5th: Sorry, TLR has got to be tinkering with something at all times.
The last: When Enc wins an MVP.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 8, 2007 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions

re # 3 on your list...

you said Eckstein and Miles... did you mean Eckstein and KENNEDY?

by CurtFlood on Aug 8, 2007 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions

how about

all three?!

Boooo-urns.

by Alxfritz on Aug 8, 2007 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions

In case it hasn't been posted here yet...

...and I haven't seen it here, Kevin Wheeler wants the Redbirds to go after A-Rod:

http://sportsreviewmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1374

by birdjam on Aug 8, 2007 2:41 PM EDT reply actions

Well

Interesting read but he kind of forgot all the money we owe Carpenter, unless he thinks we're getting 100% of his salary from insurance settlement for some reason. I'm not necessarily opposed to going after Arod for the following reasons:

I much prefer to spend free-agent money on difference-makers than on some of the favorite VEB whipping boy mediocrities we have seen over the last couple of years.
He could play short until Rolen's contract is up, at which point he will probably be about ready to move to 3rd.
It would pretty much force us to use cost-controlled players like Hoffpauir, Rasmus, Ankiel, Ryan, Perez, etc which we need to do instead of wasting money on guys like Miles, PDub, and Gooch that probably won't give any better production than the min salary guys.
The guy does have a good point about a home run record chase possibly boosting attendance even if the team sucks at the time.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

completly agree

You spend the money on diffrence making bats. For the most part they are projectable so you have a good idea what you are getting.

by DriverZn on Aug 8, 2007 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm in favor.

But I worry: Half the posters over at Bernie's Pressbox have no discernable purpose in life besides accusing Cardinal owners of being cheapskates. Whatever would those poor souls do with themselves after this?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 8, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

He makes a good argument.....

...but even if the cards ownership 'could' go up to $120 million - would they? I doubt it...That's over a 25% increase in payroll...they've been reluctant to increase 5%.

Plus, I frickin' HATE A-ROD...the 'slap' play in the 2004 ALCS; the shouting play in Toronto; going for Pedroia's you know what to break up a double play....this dude plays dirty...ok, maybe I've been living in Red Sox country for too long.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

that stuff does make you look down on him at first. But I've on occasion thought about trying to bat a ball out of a fielder's glove before playing SOFTBALL of all things. He's probably just really competitive like me, and can't always keep that in check.

by saladdays on Aug 8, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Arod

I'm not his biggest fan either, but if we signed him I'm sure I could come around. At least he's not a known/suspected juicer. One other thing in his favor is that he is durable: the last season he played fewer than 154 games is 2000. Now granted you can't expect that to last through his mid-late thirties but still. Another point in favor of signing him is that it would be a crime to waste Albert's prime years, this would definitely help prevent that.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

A-Rod hitting behind Pujols.......

No other comments are necessary. That would be the sickest 3-4 combination in baseball by far.

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 8, 2007 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions

And just for fun they could

swap places twice a week.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 8, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions

I wonder if they would have A-Rod batting third

considering that Albert has his foot problem, and A-Rod is a former 40-40 guy

by Valatan on Aug 8, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions

the real question

is where they're going to bat Cabrera after the '10 trade deadline.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 8, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Easy question

Rasmus CF
Rolen 3B
Pujols 1B
Rodriguez SS
Cabrera LF
Duncan RF
Molina/Anderson C
Pitcher
Hauf 2B

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2007 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

pitcher stil batting 8th

very nice touch

by lboros on Aug 8, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions

With that lineup

it would be foolish not to. If you do it because you are struggling to get enough people on before Pujols, with Pujols, Rodriguez, Cabrera, I'd bat the pitcher 7th!

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2007 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Another problem

A-Rod isn't going to get 30 million. He's going to get 35 million from the Yankees. No chance he doesn't crack 30. Mark it down. They already have a gigantic built-in discount to extend him with the Rangers money for the next 3 years and more than enough money to pay him after that. There's a 0% chance he's not going above 30 mil per.

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Aug 8, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions

not

if A-Rod opps out... The Yanks will be on the hook for the whole check. If a new contract is written the Rangers are off the hook.

by nybirdfan on Aug 8, 2007 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Which reminds me - money question

What does it cost the Cards to support the minor league teams? All those salaries and some other costs are picked up by the ML team, correct?

by sdrone on Aug 8, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I can't give you a dollar figure

But players, coaches, and trainers are employees of the parent club.

Travel and any other expenses (ticket sales, marketing, radio guys, league dues, etc.) are paid by the minor-league club.

The parent club can't really absorb anything more with the way the player development contracts are written, beyond playing exhibitions, etc. They can't promise exhibitions in the contract either.

(All this from hearing a couple of minor-league execs on the radio)

by whopperman on Aug 8, 2007 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Brew crew down 4-0 already....

...Man, our division leaders sure don't want Cardinal nation to lose hope.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2007 3:44 PM EDT reply actions

Make it 5-0

Ha Ha!

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2007 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions

6-0

Some much for Gallardo taking the "ace" spot vacated by Ben Sheets.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions

8-0

54 pitches through 1.2...Wow

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2007 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Gallardo is apparently having a

'Reyes moment'.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions

The final damage

2.2 IP, 12 H, 11R, 11 ER, 3 BB, 1 SO, 2 HR, 80 pitches, 48 strikes.

Wow - that's rough.....

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions

especially to my fantasy team

What was I thinking with this kid?

by OCCardsFan on Aug 8, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Ouch!

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2007 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Please win

tonight, boys. If the Cubs get swept by the Stros, this could be the day to start the climb (jeez, maybe I should quit mainlining the Red Kool-Aid and go back to just drinking it).

by rockin redbird on Aug 8, 2007 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions

dear god in heaven...

I had him starting in TWO fantasy leagues. TWO.

by jdub176 on Aug 8, 2007 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions

aye

now 19-3! the Cubs are now the only team in the NL Central with a positive Pythagorean record. The Brewers have lost 2.4 Pyth games so far today...

Crap, became 19-4 while I was crunching numbers. Boo, ryan braun.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 8, 2007 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Cardinals' off-season plans

After reading today's post, comments, and linked articles I would take the following actions this winter were I in charge.

Step 1: Let a bunch of guys go, replace them with cheap in-house alternatives, and sign Alex Rodriguez to play shortstop.

Step 2: Find doctors willing to sacrifice their ethical beliefs for money, commit massive fraud, and get approval from MLB for all our position players to wear massive hinged elbow armor while batting.

Step 3: Sign a veteran free agent starting pitcher.

Step 4: Win at least 5 consecutive World Series.

I see no flaws in this plan.

by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2007 4:47 PM EDT reply actions

You'll need to round up the specific people

on this board who cause us to lose by attending games.

by sdrone on Aug 8, 2007 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions

You forgot

to include creating your advisory board of VEB readers (and giving them season tickets in perpetuity, natch).

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 8, 2007 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't Forget

Step 5: ...

Step 6: Profit!!

by Just Rope Ball on Aug 8, 2007 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Step 0: Dinosaurs

n/t

by sdrone on Aug 8, 2007 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess signing Carl Everett

is not in the future for the Cardinals, then

by Valatan on Aug 8, 2007 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions

well

I figured steps 5 and 6 were more or less implied.
there are also some prerequisites, which might include becoming walt jocketty's heir, him mysteriously disappearing and me replacing him as GM.

In all honesty though, who doesn't drool a little at the plausible suggestion of acquiring Rodriguez (or Cabrera for that matter)

by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2007 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Pie and Pagan

HOUSTON -- The Cubs were expected to tweak their roster Wednesday, calling up outfielder Felix Pie from Triple-A Iowa and placing outfielder Angel Pagan on the disabled list.

by StLHugo on Aug 8, 2007 5:06 PM EDT reply actions

Duncan's not in the line-up tonight

...against Maddux? Geez, how many at bats is Tony gonna take away from him, he never gets in against LHP, which was most of the pitchers we faced last week, and now he's giving way to Ludwick because his bat is hot? Huh.

to crush your enemies, to see them driven before you....and to hear the lamentation of the women!

by cardsnutincali on Aug 8, 2007 6:44 PM EDT reply actions