show up and play

by lboros on May 7, 2007 7:31 AM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News

"time to panic yet?" somebody wrote me yesterday, referencing carpenter's injury, and i gave the same answer i gave when i was asked that question during the cards' near-collapse down the stretch last september: it's never time to panic over baseball. it's time to panic when your 4-year-old wanders off in a crowded mall and you momentarily can't spot him; it's time to panic when you're going 70 on the highway and look up to find a tow-truck parked 10 yards in front of you.

but panic when your favorite baseball team, already playing like crap, loses its only good pitcher for another 3 months? i don't think so. it's not time to panic; it's time to alter expectations. heading into the season, i thought a reasonable expectation was that the cardinals would contend for a playoff spot. that no longer seems reasonable to me; it seems like wishful thinking. but it also seemed like wishful thinking last autumn to expect a deep playoff run out of the cardinals. on september 21st --- with mulder and izzy out, edmonds and eckstein unable to play, and the cardinals scuffling as they hadn't in years --- i put it like this: "the cardinals face long odds this october. but they're still gonna have games on the calendar; they'll still show up and try to win them. and we'll still be watching." that's how i'm approaching the rest of this season. for all that has happened, the cards are still gonna show up for their games and try to win them. i don't expect them to do very well, but maybe they'll surprise me. i didn't expect anything out of braden looper when they made him into a starting pitcher; he's surprised me so far. i didn't expect anything out of chris duncan when they made him the everyday left-fielder last july 1; i didn't expect anything out of josh kinney or jeff weaver.

if wishful thinking's the only item the kitchen hasn't run out of . . . well, bring me an order with a basket of bread. you can't eat gourmet every meal.

the "blow up the team" conversation has begun, and while it's not entirely misplaced, i don't think it's entirely realistic either --- and for sure it is premature. the cards aren't gonna acquire anyone at this point in the season who can help them for 2007 --- that is, not unless you think gms are lined up to offer good players for our broken-down ex-all-stars. (now that's wishful thinking.) if any significant trade goes down it will almost surely be made with future seasons in mind, so there's no rush; jocketty can get those deals done in june or july if, as seems likely, the cardinals are hopelessly out of it by then. moreover, several of the old nags we're all so eager to send packing --- edmonds, rolen, and izzy --- are 5 and 10 men, meaning they'll have to be bought out of their trade-veto rights; and their contracts are such that cards either will have to swallow a large chunk of the payroll (fat chance) or accept lesser talent in return. given the plentitude of lesser talent already in the system, that doesn't seem like progress.

indeed, as gratifying as it might feel to holler "dump the bums!!" --- who's not sick of watching these guys go 0 for 4 every night and lose 13-0? --- until one of our players draws a trade offer that actually moves the organization forward, we're probably stuck with them. at the very least, we're stuck with them for the next couple of months. if rolen or edmonds or eckstein has established any value by the trade deadline, maybe a worthwhile offer or two will develop --- in which case, dump away. i had edmonds traded to the yankees a year and a half ago, and i had rolen dealt to the angels back in november; the latter scenario remains a logical (albeit --- disclaimer --- entirely speculative) possibility, insofar as the angels are actively looking for a power bat and/or a 3d baseman. maybe rolen would appeal to them, if he can prove there's any power left in his bat. but scotty's got an iron-clad no-trade in his contract, which would complicate any transaction involving him. . . . the point here is that if the cards are ever in a position to get rid of one of their veteran players advantageously, i'm all for it. but dump 'em just for the satisfaction of dumping 'em? you don't get anywhere by selling low.

you sell high --- by which principle, the cardinals' most tradeable player at this moment is braden looper. he's affordable, he's under contract for next season . . . . . very attractive pickup for some arm-starved contending club. if he's still pitching well by july and the cards are still playing poorly, that's the player i would look for the cardinals to deal.

* * * * * * * * *

jp riccardi did all baseball fans a great service by admitting that he lied about a player's health status --- he knew bj ryan's elbow was balky but told the media it was fine. i say it's a great service because i think riccardi gave us all a peek behind the curtain vis-vis the way most organizations treat injuries --- next time one of our team's Great and Powerful Ozzes makes a declaration about the well-being of chris carpenter, mark mulder, jim edmonds, johnny encarnacion, or anybody else, we'll all know how much to credit the "information."

writing on the subject yesterday (subscription only), will carroll suggested that such disinformation campaigns (which are common) are generally aimed at other teams, not at the fans; no gm wants potential trade partners to know exactly how large the holes in his roster are. but it's the fans who take the statements to heart --- and get pissed off when they turn out not to be true. quoting carroll:

The fact is, people in the industry lie, or in more cases, they just try to misdirect us, although without much malice. I won't fault it much more when it happens next time--and it will. I'll just ask whoever it is to figure out what it is you gain while you're losing your fans' trust.

and surely the clubs don't limit their lying to matters related to injury . . . . ah, but let's not go there. wishful thinking; wishful thinking.

Tweet Comment 97 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Looper

I totally agree about Looper. Maybe the Cards' need to realize this could be a rebuilding year and if that is the case, you should sell high. I believe Russ Springer would be a viable option, also, to a team like the Phillies who are in dire need of bullpen help.

Rolen to the Angels is an interesting possibility as this is one of the few teams that have some nice prospects and that might take on some/most of Rolen's contract.

http://whiteyball.wordpress.com

by whiteyball on May 7, 2007 7:33 AM EDT reply actions

It comes in cycles...

You can't eat gourment everyday, as you put it Larry, is exactly right. We've been on one hell of an eight year ride, and I think it might be coming to an end. Someone wrote yesterday that without the large payrolls of the Yanks and Sox, we cannot maintain that sustained excellence. Guys, have you looked at the Yankees? They are horrible. The Red Sox sat home last year come play off time.

The fever pitch that we are at will die down, tickets will become more readily available, the number of comments here will decrease, but life will go on.

Then, in a couple of years or so, the Cards will bouceback, the next generation (Rasmus, Jay, Garcia, Anderson, et al) will be ready to make their debuts and Cardinal Nation will be buzzing with optimism again.

This team has accompolished something that is extremely difficult to obtain, eight years of playoff caliber teams. Back to back 100 win seasons. A championship. Everybody 39 years old or less has only seen TWO of them in their lifetime. If you are 24 or younger, this is your first.

Really, an amazing time to be a fan.

by Brock20 on May 7, 2007 7:48 AM EDT reply actions

I agree

Its just impossible to win the division every year being a mid-market team.

I am 24 (born in sept 82) so I HAVE seen two championships! Even if I was 6 weeks old during the first one...

2006 Cardinals- An underdog story

by Born in 82 on May 7, 2007 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions

You partially missed my point...

Regardless of market size, its tough to win a division eight years in a row. Even the Yankees and Red Sox haven't managed that.

Glad you got to see one you can remember. I was five in 82 and remember bits and pieces.

by Brock20 on May 7, 2007 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions

The Yankees have won their division

9 time in a row and the Braves did it 14 times in a row.

It's not commonplace but is certainly doable.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on May 7, 2007 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Braves...

Certainly are not a large market team and did it through a combination of young talent, bringing guys up and trades. Their feet, and that of the Yankees are something special. Not saying its not doable, but continued domination is a very, very tough thing to accomplish.

by Brock20 on May 7, 2007 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Cards and Braves

I was born November '81, so my first World Series was the Cards' victory in '82. I moved to Atlanta in December 1990. Root for the Braves? Smeg no! They were the worst team the year before. Cox and Mazzone did it with outstanding pitching and timely hitting. Maddox, Glavine, and Smoltz were the mainstay for the entire decade and Schuerholtz (GM) brought in 4th and 5th men into the rotation. Steve Avery, Denny Neagle, and more. Their farm system churned out prospect after prospect: Justice, both Joneses, Javy Lopez. Schuerholtz also hired the bats they needed: Fred McGriff, Pendleton (still their hitting coach), Brian Jordan. I'm not a fan: I just watched so many games over a decade+ in Atlanta (and their radio team is great). That said, they've won as many World Series in the last 24 years as we have. It's great to be a Cards' fan.

by ColinMacLeod on May 7, 2007 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Hmm

I see no reason to not remain optimistic. We're in a division that the leader could easily start slumping and we could slip our way back into the race. Think about how horribly we palyed the second half of last year. Just make that the first half of this year, and if we can go on a run starting may, june or even july, we have a shot.

I agree that we should sell high, but that doesn't mean abandoning hope. If we were to unload Looper at the deadline, we have Mulder coming back and also Carp will be back in September if we still have a shot. Not to mention there are guys like Weaver to fill out Looper's spot. We could successfully trade for prospects and not throw the division away. Last year's Phillies are a good example of that.

I honestly think we can stay competitive in this division while building for the future at the same time.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on May 7, 2007 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Not only...

would the Angels (or anyone else) have to eat the rest of Rolen's contract, they'd have to extend him a couple more years. It doesn't seem likely even if he gets back to 280/380/500, but I guess anything is possible.

Eckstein - if he returns to 2005 form - seems a prime candidate. I mean, he won't bring a blue chip, but maybe some young arms. The problem is that the 2007 SS class is terrible and so are Hanson and Ryan. If Rolen could bring Brandon Wood, then we'd solve the bigger SS problem and only have to find a 3rd sacker, which is somewhat easier.

The Devil Rays landed Ben Zobrist for Aubrey Huff last year. I'd be very happy if Jocketty could get someone like that for Looper, Eckstein and/or Wells (once he pulls it together). Of course Zobrist is currently sporting an OPS+ of 3 in 65 plate appearances...

A prime target, and it was mentioned in the comments of the previous post, should be Austin Kearns. He's signed at $13 million total for 2008-2009, and he has a reasonable $10 million option for 2010. His first and second comps on baseball reference are Frank Thomas and Larry Walker, he's a good OBP guy, has a great arm... The cost would be steep. Maybe Garcia and Anderson. I say do it. When you have Yadi and Duncan, who needs catching and pitching prospects?

Let's talk baseball!! (and let's hope the Cards start playing it...)

by guayzimi on May 7, 2007 8:01 AM EDT reply actions

You don't trade

your best prospect (Anderson) for Austin Kearns.

by Toddius396 on May 7, 2007 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Anderson and Garcia

I'm going to have to go with Toddius on this one. I think, at this point in time, that both Bryan Anderson and Jaime Garcia either are completely untouchable or they should be. Garcia is currently putting up a K rate of around one per inning in AA, and his GB/FB is ridiculous. Anderson plays a premium position, and he's been consistently at around an .800 OPS, I believe. (hell, it might be better than that, I don't feel like looking right now) To me, Garcia, Anderson, and Rasmus are untouchable. Anybody else is fair game, for the right price. Although I don't personally think Kearns is worth top of the line talent anyway.

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on May 7, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Kearns...

is at $26.5 million for the next four years (including '07), which cover his peak age 27-30 seasons. He's above average defensively and his top two comparables for his age are Frank Thomas and Larry Walker. He's got major potential at a very reasonable price.

I'm not a big prospect geek, but I saw that Sickels and Goldstein pegged Garcia as a potential #3 - not a top of the rotation guy - and Anderson plays Yadi's position, which makes him trade bait. The organization puts defense first at that position, like it or not, so I don't see how Anderson ever plays for the Cards. Of course you could argue we should get more than Kearns for him, but Kearns could produce big time over the next four seasons, imo.

Let's talk baseball!! (and let's hope the Cards start playing it...)

by guayzimi on May 7, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Is it "the organization" that puts

defense first at catcher, or is it just TLR? I'm hoping there are those in the front office who like the idea of a C that actually exceeds a .700 OPS now and then.

Any team can afford a defense-only catcher, as long as they are not trotting out multiple limp hitters night after night. This is not one of those teams.

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 7, 2007 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions

I still say

Play around the edges. Tinker with the team. Don't make any major moves. YET! This team is only 5 games under .500 and 8 back. With as crappy as this offense has been this is not mission impossible.

If I was Tony I would say something like this to the team. "Guys looks like most everybody has written you and this season off. Fuck them! We know we are a good team. We know we can get back on track. So just go out there and HAVE FUN! This is a game enjoy yourselves."

I would mix things up where possible look for bargins. I'll say it again what would the Dodger's want for Bigbie. Little things. If we have to say goodbye to Taguchi or Wilson to make room I am ok with that.

JImmE we are stuck with. JaunE is a question mark. He might be moveable for a prospect. Rolen will get hot. This team will turn around.

BOYS JUST HAVE FUN OUT THERE!

by nybirdfan on May 7, 2007 8:41 AM EDT reply actions

The 'sell off the bums' talk dies down

if the Cardinals can 8-4 over these next 3 home games and then the road trip. Take 2 from Colorado, 2 from the fathers, 2 from the Dodgers and 2 from the Tigers.

This upcoming road trip is critical because with a successful one, the Cardinals come home to play middle of the road to bottom feeding teams in 3-Pit, 3-WAS, 4-COL while the Brewers have to play some NL East teams.

If the Cards can go 8-4 on the road trip and 7-3 to close out the month, a 15-7 run the rest of May would put them at 27-24 heading into June.

Milwaukee
3 - WAS
3 - NYM
4 - PHI
3 - MIN
3 - LAD
3 - SD
3 - ATL
1 - FLA

If they can keep their head above water against those teams, then they are the real deal. I just don't see it happening. I believe they can sweep Washington. After that, they'll be lucky to win a series against the East, probably will beat San Deigo and lose to LA. I could easily see them going 10 - 13 over the rest of the month (31-23).

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on May 7, 2007 8:53 AM EDT reply actions

With what offense???

Maybe the remarkable series win this weekend is clouding your brain, but we have no offense to speak of.

We have scored 8 runs in the past 5 games.

Eight Runs - Five Games

We've scored 90 runs total this season, worst in baseball.

by redbird2006in on May 7, 2007 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions

I refuse to believe that this team will only score

503 runs this season. Even if Edmonds/Juan/Eckstein provide NOTHING from here on out, they will be replaced with players (Ludwick, Miles, Ankiel, etc) that will atleast provide baserunners for Duncan, Pujols, Rolen.

TLR seems (after yesterday's lineup) to be figuring out that he's going to have to micromangage the lineup, playing hot hands in certain places, etc.

This team simply isn't going to score almost 300 runs less than the year before, especially a team that didn't have a major roster turnover.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on May 7, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions

With all due respect

I think it would be a miracle for this year's team to get to 8-4 vs. COL, at SD, at LAD, and at DET. A more realistic record in those games? 4-8. I think we can (and should) take 2 of 3 from the Rockies, but I don't see us winning more than 2 of the next 9 games against those teams. Detroit will probably sweep us, as they did last year. Maybe 1 of 3 against the 2 NL West teams.

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on May 7, 2007 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions

They should sweep the Rockies

The Rockies pitching is terrible. Opponents are hitting almost .300 against them overall and .276 on the road with a .800 OPS.

If the offense can't get on track against the Rockies, then hope may indeed be lost.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on May 7, 2007 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Rockies pitching

True, but Jeff Francis, while not off to a goood start this year, pitched well against the Cards last year and (shudder) he is left-handed, which is deadly to Cardinal hitting.

by cardsgirl95 on May 7, 2007 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions

well, bear in mind

lboros said the same thing would be in order if the cards didn't score 4-5 runs per game against each of houston's middling righty starters. i forget how well that went, but i'm sure it was great.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on May 7, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions

The Dodgers need a third basemen.......

real bad. Wilson Betemit has had a major drop off this year. We should try to trade them Rolen and some B prospect for Betemit and Matt Kemp.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on May 7, 2007 9:09 AM EDT reply actions

LaRoche...

The Dodgers have their thirdbaseman, uber prospect Andy LaRoche.

by Brock20 on May 7, 2007 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Adam?

Any relation to Adam LaRoche?

by sgfcards on May 7, 2007 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Brother

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on May 7, 2007 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions

We Can't

Trade Rolen. He would never waive his no-trade and our closest prospect is Allen Craig in A ball. Jimmy is more likely but still very unlikely. I think we should try and trade Wells and/or Looper. The Yankees might be interested. Some other pitching-hungry club would give up a solid player or 2. Springer to the Phils would work well for everyone. He is not a long term solution here. Even in the short term he is our 5th best reliever. Plus, he has fairly high value. If we could somehow trade him and Juan for Burrell or Rowand, that would be the best move at this time. If Scotty is dealt, the 2 LA teams are the landing spots. Angels for Aybar and someone else (maybe Santana) or the Dodgers for Betemit and one of their stud prospects. Not very likely, but those deals would be tempting if on the table.

Come on You Redbirds--Mike Shannon

by BluesDrummer85 on May 7, 2007 9:10 AM EDT reply actions

Road trip

Agree with most of your assessmemnt of the road trip, except for SD and LA. The last two seasons the Padres have been tough on us (regular season, not postseason) and we have played LA well. Even in ST this year we had a couple blow out games vs. the Dodgers. But our pitching situation has changed so much since last year that there are no guarantees of this trend continuing.

by cardsgirl95 on May 7, 2007 9:16 AM EDT reply actions

Road trip, part II

Also, I could see us getting swept by the Tigers in Detroit. They will be highly motivated by their WS disappointment and they are playing hot right now with a 7 game win streak as of today. I certainly hope not, especially since I am going to the 5/20 game. I may take my life in my own hands and wear my WS champions shirt - that would just be asking for verbal abuse and maybe a tossed beer or two. Last year my family and I went to a game in the Motor City and we got plenty of verbal abuse just for wearing Cards shirts and/or hats. But there were many other fans of the Birds on Bats there to keep us company on that Sunday afternoon.

by cardsgirl95 on May 7, 2007 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions

I don't understand!

I think everyone here knows that the cardinals can't afford the kind of depth that would allow for top-notch players to get hurt. Seriously, would anyone expect last year's team to perform if the big Poo got hurt? Or Carp?

In the current market, we can afford a couple of superstars and some supporting players. That's it. When one of those stars gets hurt, the team will suffer disproportionately.

Nybirdfan, you are dead on. Lets tinker for a while (I like what Tony is trying here) and see what we wind up with. We need one mor hot bat from #5 down to drive in some runs. Let's not panic yet. Kennedy may yet heat up after the league switch. Give him a full tour of the league, and he may do better the 2nd time around. Pujols has been hitting lately. Wainer looked good the other day. Looper is my April Cy Young winner. Izzy is closing when he gets chances. Middle relief is good. The team just seems to need a bit of a swagger, not an ass-chewing.

Unlike the chubs, I think all our players REALLY want to win. We just need to stay behind them and see what happens. You never know, maybe we can hang around .500 till July and Jocketty can work some of his magic!

I'm a man, a manly, manly, man. Unknown

by Eckstreem on May 7, 2007 9:29 AM EDT reply actions

Players that could be traded away in July

Braden Looper
Kip Wells
Russ Springer
Ryan Franklin

I don't think the club will trade Izzy. He has shown he is healthy and effective once again. I was at the game yesterday and he was hitting 93mph on the fastball and throwing a good curveball again. The cards have an 8MM option on Izzy that is a good value if he remains healthy. Look what other closers are getting paid on multi-year deals and getting a one year deal on Izzy limits your long term risk. Besides, who else do the Cardinals have to close games for next year? Nobody else is ready to step into the closers role for 08.

Looper or Kip Wells could bring back some value from a team desperate for an SP but without much payroll to spare. If the Cardinals are planning on going after Mark Burhle they should trade both players in an effort to clear Looper's salary (1.5mm for August and Sept + 5.5mm in '08= 7MM savings) and apply that savings to Burhle's 10MM+ asking price.

Franklin and Springer won't bring tons of value back in a trade but if you package both of them together to a contender desperate for bullpen help (Philadelphia?) you could get a nice return.

2006 Cardinals- An underdog story

by Born in 82 on May 7, 2007 9:29 AM EDT reply actions

What...

about Eck and Kennedy?

Let's talk baseball!! (and let's hope the Cards start playing it...)

by guayzimi on May 7, 2007 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Not very likely

Adam Kennedy signed a three year deal this offseason. It is not likely that another club wants to trade for Kennedy and then pay him for two more seasons. Plus he is not the type of player that a playoff contender trades for the get over the hump. He is an OK fit for the cardinals in 08-09 so there is not reason to trade him.

Eckstein is a very good baseball player but I doubt many contending teams are looking at Eck as a huge upgrade over their current SS. I look for the cardinals to offer Eck arbitration and try to sign him to a low-ball contract at about 4mm a year this offseason.

There is a bumper crop of SS available after the 08 season so if they can get Eck on a one year deal that would be great. But the question is if they dont keep Eck then who plays SS for the Cards in 08?

I really doubt the Cards will trade either Kennedy or Eck because they wount get much in return for either player and it would really anger the fan base.

2006 Cardinals- An underdog story

by Born in 82 on May 7, 2007 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions

True but...

Belliard is not the kind of player that a playoff contender trades for to get over the hump, either...

Anyone remember the look of terror on (I think) Jose Reyes' face when Belliard rolled over him the NLCS?

by sgfcards on May 7, 2007 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Oh yeah...

I'd be livid to see Kennedy go...

Let's talk baseball!! (and let's hope the Cards start playing it...)

by guayzimi on May 7, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Also

If Encarnacion does a good job on his return he could be a possibility as well.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on May 7, 2007 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Izzy as Trade Bait

Methinks Izzy will have the most trade value come July. The Phillies, Indians, Yankees, and Braves could all be quite interested in him by then. I could see Izzy waiving his NTC based on some of his comments this spring. Chris Perez has been dominant thus far at Springfield, and might finish the year at Memphis. He might be closing for us in 2009.

by Hungry Jack on May 7, 2007 10:22 AM EDT reply actions

Doubtful on the Braves

Wickman, Gonzo, Soriano...all could close. 2 have.

by RedbirdRay on May 7, 2007 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions

Let's just play...

...as lboros suggested. I refuse to believe that Rolen, Kennedy, and Eckstein will continue to swing the bat as poorly as they have thus far. Give Kennedy the lead-off slot until Eck starts swinging the bat well, and let's ride Ludwick until he proves he can't hit MLB pitching.

For the luvva Mike, it's May! Concentrate on getting back to .500... then work on getting better than break-even.

Non-sabermetric analysis from my four eyes... the entire team looks like they're grinding sawdust out of the bats right now. But screaming, "RELAX, DAMMIT!!!!" doesn't work very well...

"A man should live forever, or die trying." -- Mike Callahan

by The Ol Goaler on May 7, 2007 10:43 AM EDT reply actions

I concur...

We're exactly ONE month and ONE week into the season. We've played 29 games out of 162 (2 cancelled? 1 Rainout, 1 JH postponing... I think that's it).

The bats will pick up. I believe Larry had a post a while back showing that, at least in part, the Cards had, by chance, run into some really hot starting pitching. Not an excuse... just part of the game.

"Give Kennedy the lead-off slot until Eck starts swinging the bat well, and let's ride Ludwick until he proves he can't hit MLB pitching."

Love that idea - take it one step further: Kennedy leads off, Ludwick in the 2 hole, followed by Pujols, Duncan, Rolen in the 3-4-5. That should give both Kennedy and Ludwick some fastballs to swing at.

Duncan 4 Cleanup

by SmashedAtoms on May 7, 2007 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions

Second

that motion. I really like your lineup ideas there. I've been hoping to see Duncan moved down to cleanup for awhile. You get the kid Ludwick some good pitches to hit, maybe Kennedy can stay on track, I like it.

It will never happen.

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on May 7, 2007 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions

hey now...

"It will never happen."

Isn't the theme of today's post "wishful thinking?" :-)

Duncan 4 Cleanup

by SmashedAtoms on May 7, 2007 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions

tinkering

I like it

by nybirdfan on May 7, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions

hey ol' goaler

i liked your "RELAX DAMMIT!" comment; it reminded of that scene from seinfeld where george castanza (or maybe it's his dad . . . maybe both) is shouting "SERENITY NOW !!!"

by lboros on May 7, 2007 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Yes, but serenity now...

insanity later.

Just ask Lloyd Braun.

Everybody off the bandwagon!

by Alxfritz on May 7, 2007 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

NOT....

that there is anything wrong with that!..

by Timbo02 on May 7, 2007 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Trading Looper?

Does anyone think that we may be able to get Lastings Millege away from the Mets? I read on SI that they are dangling him for a starter. Looper and Reyes come to mind.

I'm a man, a manly, manly, man. Unknown

by Eckstreem on May 7, 2007 10:46 AM EDT reply actions

Looper is not enough for Millege

But your on the right track. They could get a good OF prospect for him. But if TLRDuncWalt belive that Looper can keep anything close to this up for the rest of this year and next year then Looper is a bargain and the might just keep him.

If they do then the rotation for next year is already set at a reasonable price.

Carp
Mulder
Wainer
Reyes
Looper

Plenty of Cash remaining to take on Miguel Tejada contract.

2006 Cardinals- An underdog story

by Born in 82 on May 7, 2007 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions

Milledge

would be decent to have, but he wouldn't be my first choice. Plus, I don't think the Mets would make any sort of deal to bring Braden Looper back to Flushing.

However, I think you're underestimating how valuable Looper is at this point. I don't see the Metropolitans having much interest, but that has more to do with that one franchise. Even a top young position prospect is expendable if it brings solid pitching in return. The whole FA market has exploded, but in no other arena quite so much as starting pitching. There is such a premium on arms right now that even a halfway decent starter can bring far more than his actual worth due to the fact that building an entire rotation by buying really isn't feasible for nearly any team.

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on May 7, 2007 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Gloom and Doom

Im so sick of everyone talking like its the end of the world if we dont win this year.First of all in 08 if you look at our rotation it looks pretty dang good Carpenter,Mulder,Reyes,Wainwright perhaps Buehrle? even without Buehrle thats a good rotation.
I think with a rotation that strong sign a bat or two (isnt A.Jones a FA? perhaps?)and we will be very successful im so sick of all this gloom and doom.
Also this year I think AK in front of duncan and pujols he.ll get more fastballs and more hits.If AK and Rolen get hot with pujols duncan and ludwick hot we will have a good offense.Just stop this gloom and doom and relax its MAY 7 we got all year to play.

by Calhoun on May 7, 2007 11:00 AM EDT reply actions

Agreed

Hear, hear! It is a little early for this much gloom and doom. They just need to play some ball, as Larry pointed out. As for A. Jones, isn't Boras his agent? That means the Braves won't re-sign him and we won't get him either. After all, Boras got Seattle to cough up $8 million for Jeff Weaver.

by cardsgirl95 on May 7, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions

roster questions

I don't know if this information is elsewhere, but didnt we need to add Ludwick, Falkenberg and Jiminez to the 40 man roster? If so how did they create the openings. One was obviously Hancock, but what about the other 2?

by gocards80 on May 7, 2007 11:01 AM EDT reply actions

Roster

Hancock died Carpenter and P.Wilson was put on DL.

by Calhoun on May 7, 2007 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions

roster

that was for the 25 man roster, i meant to ask didnt they need to be added to the 40 man roster first

by gocards80 on May 7, 2007 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions

I thought

I remember reading that the 40-man roster only had 37 or 38 people on it a few weeks ago.

by sgfcards on May 7, 2007 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions

I count...

39 currently:

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=stl

But Kinney could be moved to the 60 day to free up another spot.

Let's talk baseball!! (and let's hope the Cards start playing it...)

by guayzimi on May 7, 2007 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Blow it up?

I think we have to look at it. I agree it is nearly unthinkable that we will be in the playoffs this year. For my part, it is one of those things that I just reasoned was going to happen. We came from nowhere, got a great series win, and now we pay the price since we didn't really go out there and try to get better.

I am sure that some moves will be made this season, such as the two made this weekend. I am wondering where JRod is in all of this. I would like to have seen him get a shot at the everyday.

The old saying is that you can just as easily finish last with young talent as old, not to mention cheaper.....

by JKW1974 on May 7, 2007 11:12 AM EDT reply actions

wow

Hilarious, here's a Q&A with Jason Giambi

Jimmy D: What player in baseball would you least like to get into a fight with?

Jason Giambi: "Least want to get in a fight with? Farnsy might be a guy. (Jason) Isringhausen. He's like Baby Huey. You'd have to kill him to have him stop fighting. Those are it."

Funny, I never imagined Izzy as Baby Huey.
here

by lookit on May 7, 2007 11:14 AM EDT reply actions

My Two Cents

I'm not quite ready to write this season off just yet. However, I am a realist, and I don't really think the Cardinals are going to be able to contend. It's just not their year. Sometimes it happens. Probably shouldn't have won last October but they did. Probably should be better than this now but they're not. We'll all live.

As far as possible trades and such, I don't think Edmonds has much value, and neither Rolen nor Izzy are going anywhere. Both have no trade clauses, and it's hard to get return value for a Hall of Fame third basemen. I still want the Cards to at least check into the DRays outfield. They seem to like Dukes in center, so maybe someone could pry Baldelli away from them. Springer could definitely be a useful chip to a team like the Phillies with bullpen issues. Overall, my top tradeable commodities the Cards have are:

Encarnacion (later in the season, when healthy)
Springer
Thompson/Narveson
Looper (I wouldn't anytime soon, but if he pitches well, he could be worth something nice in July)
Flores (if, and only if, someone like Cate looks ready to step up. Randy has a nice contract situation, and there will be plenty of teams needing that one more arm out of the pen.)

and that's about it. I don't really think the Cards can trade any of their cornerstone guys, but they have several mid level veterans that could bring nice returns if they play their hands right in the summer.

I see the biggest priorities as:

one young, good outfielder (I vote for Baldelli, but there are other options)
one super sub type player (help reduce the financial burden of upgrading next year's bench
a top flight prospect at shortstop

If the Cardinals could get these things done, we'll be looking at another big time run shortly. It'll be tough, but I think they should have the resources to go out and get those guys. If they aren't contending, start moving some of the bullpen arms to try and acquire some OF help, try to leverage Juan and his fairly reasonable deal for the middle infield prospect, and, if it looks like there will be enough starters for 2008, (depending on possible Buerhle situation, Hawksworth, Garcia, the rest of the FA class, whatever) go ahead and move Looper to bring in a young stud prospect of whatever sort. Looper, in particular, could be huge at the deadline, if he continues to pitch even anywhere near what he's done so far. Teams get really desperate for an extra arm at the deadline if they're in contention. Maybe the Cards can use that and get some fringe playoff team to drastically overpay.

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on May 7, 2007 11:37 AM EDT reply actions

Middle infield prospect we need....

Erick Aybar from the Angels, I believe he can play both 2b and SS. Unfortunately, since Howie Kendrick is hurt, Aybar is now their starting second baseman.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on May 7, 2007 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions

I like Aybar

He would be just the kind of guy I was thinking of. He's a little short on power, but seems to be a very solid player otherwise. That sucks about Kendrick, though. I hadn't even seen that he was hurt.

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on May 7, 2007 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Shortstop

I think a good SS prospect should be the #1 priority, given the dismal free agent SS market. Hopefully between Rasmus, Jay, Mather, and Slick Rick Ankiel you can fill at least 1.5 outfield slots in the near future (maybe sign a platoon guy if necessary). Don't get me wrong, I like Baldelli, but I don't want to see the likes of Royce Clayton patrolling SS everyday next year.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on May 7, 2007 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Good Point

My only caveat there is that I think there are several young, potentially great outfielders already in the big leagues you might be able to pry away from a team for the right price. I don't know there are all that many shortstops you could get who are immediate impact players. Any middle infielder you could get might be a little more of a long term bet. I put the outfielder first because I could see the Cards getting a Baldelli type to start every day next season, and then dealing from some of their other OF prospects if need be. Any SS they acquire might be a guy who would have to be eased in in 2008. Aybar from the Angels would be ready, but I don't see a whole lot of other young guys who would be everyday ready right out of the gates next season. If I'm missing players, let me know. I'm kind of drawing a blank on possibilities right at the moment.

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on May 7, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions

SS prospects

Here is BP's list of their top SS prospects according to PECOTA. They also have a guy that covers prospects that goes for the more scouty-type angle, but I don't see a recent article from him seperating out prospects by position and I'm lazy.

Alexi Casilla, Twins (22)
Brent Lillibridge, Braves (23)
Sean Rodriguez, Angels (22)
Brandon Wood, Angels (22)
Reid Brignac, Devil Rays (21)
Elvis Andrus, Braves (18)
Adrian Cardenas, Phillies (19)
Marcus Lemon, Rangers (19)
Chris Valaika, Reds (21)
Joel Guzman, Devil Rays (22)
Paul Kelly, Twins (20)
Troy Tulowitzki, Rockies (22)
Joaquin Arias, Rangers (22)
Emmanuel Burriss, Giants (22)
Michael Hollimon, Tigers (25)

The Angels would look to be a good possibility if their starting pitching wasn't already so good. Lillibridge would be awesome but I don't think we have the chips to get him.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on May 7, 2007 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions

What about Looper for Renteria?

No?

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on May 7, 2007 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks

for the rundown, Mike. Looking at the list, I think only Lillibridge, Wood, Casillia and maybe Arias would be available to the Cardinals and ready to take on a major starting role at the beginning of next year. I could be wrong, though. I'm told by my better half that I often am.

You know, I had forgotten all about that Rodriguez kid in the Angels' system. If I remember correctly from the Prospect Handbook this year, his ceiling is pretty considerable. I wonder what it would take to acquire a guy like that.

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on May 7, 2007 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Check that

I shouldn't have included Lillibridge on the list of guys I thought were really available. The Braves just got him in the Mike Gonzalez/ LaRoche deal, and I think they really like him. I would love to have him, the kid's athleticism is just off the charts, but I don't see him getting moved.

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on May 7, 2007 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Casillia...

wouldn't be readily available as the Twins view him as their secondbaseman next year as they end their tenure with Luis Castillo.

Arias is generally viewed as a no hit SS and the window is closing on him fast.

by Brock20 on May 7, 2007 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Brandon Wood

got moved to 3b - I'm not sure if that means they don't think he can play short, or maybe it means he's their next 3b.

by Toddius396 on May 7, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions

geez

The Braves got a hell of a deal there.

I still think the Rangers are our team to target. They already have a young, studly infield. Michael Young is a keeper at Short. And most of all, they could use another starting pitcher.

They have two guys on that list. We should take a shot at one of them come deadline.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on May 7, 2007 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions

No

But the Rangers have two guys up there, and they're having some pitching troubles . . .

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on May 7, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I know he isnt young...

But could Chone FIggins be that super sub guy?

They were really down on him last year for a while and this year he is looking...not great (plus I think he had an injury).

I dont know if he is a guy who is "done" or what but maybe he could be picked up el cheapo. I dunno.

by jealousblues on May 7, 2007 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe we'll get lucky...

And the team comes back, with Carp making his glorious return just when he is the most needed.

And maybe we get lucky and there is a team that is desperate to make the playoffs that makes a stupid Scott Kazmir-sized mistake trying to stay in contention at the deadline. This team isn't quite to the level of 1994 depressing just yet. We just need a couple of things to go right.

by Valatan on May 7, 2007 11:54 AM EDT reply actions

Like Gary Bennett's fly ball

to travel 4 more feet on Wednesday? Or Speizio's foul ball to stay 3 more feet fair against the Cubs?

Those two things happen there, and this team is a half game out of 2nd place.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on May 7, 2007 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Kazmir

You know, that was just the sort of move that I was thinking of. The Metropolitans were desperate to stay in it the year they traded him away, and they completely ignored the actual value of the deal. I'm specifically thinking of a guy like Looper here, and a team like the Phillies or the Yankees. High expectations, pitching woes, impatient fan base. There's no way you pry a guy like Hughes or someone loose, but the Yankees have a guy like Delin Betances, very young, but with a huge ceiling, that they might very well screw up and move, trying to get that one last piece to get them to October. Big mistake? Probably. But you could definitely see that sort of thing happen.

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on May 7, 2007 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Speaking of Roger Clemens....

...what's Larry Walker doing these days?

Sure could use that bat coming off the bench.

Heck, he's younger than Barry.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on May 7, 2007 12:24 PM EDT reply actions

Seriously

I don't see why teams don't try this -- half a year has worked for the Rocket. Why not other older players?

by sgfcards on May 7, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Heck

Maybe that's what Jim Edmonds needs. Let's shut him down until July. His current line couldn't be that hard to replace.

by sgfcards on May 7, 2007 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Teams are loathe to give players special treatment

And unless there is a clemens-sized upside to it, they won't do stuff like that.

by Valatan on May 7, 2007 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Blow up the team...in 2008

If we look at the team, we still have a shot to be competitive in 2008. If not, that's when we start trading our older, last-year-of-contract players. Izzy has a 2008 option. Mulder is signed through 2008, as is Edmonds and Enc. If all are performing up to par, then we have a great shot at another run next year. If we're out of contention, then many of these pieces can be traded for some help - the classic last year of contract help for the playoff run. And it's not like any of these players (except for Izzy) have any trade value now. But at least waiting will offer us a chance to see if the team can make a run.

by jimstllax on May 7, 2007 1:00 PM EDT reply actions

Izzy

LB:

As others have mentioned, don't you think Izzy has trade value. It may not be as much a B'Loop, but if a team needs a closer mid season...

by Zubin on May 7, 2007 1:07 PM EDT reply actions

only problem is, where to

Even if you believe in needing a stud closer, $8 million (or $4 million for half the season with a 2008 option) is still a lot. And the top-salary teams - Boston, both New Yorks, the Angels - all have their closers locked in. I guess if Mariano Rivera has season-ending surgery, that might call for something like an Izzy trade? But that'd be what would have to happen there.

In addition, Milwaukee, San Diego and Detroit are set. Atlanta has plenty of options and just traded for Gonzalez. The Dodgers don't seem like they need the help, either.

Looking at the rest of the contenders, that really only leaves Cleveland and the Cubs.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on May 7, 2007 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

then again,

at least in the past, the yankees haven't been averse to paying closer money to their 7th- and 8th-inning guys if they thought they needed it. and i don't think proctor/vizcaino is going to get it done the way big stein wants it.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on May 7, 2007 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Phillies?

From SI:

That borrowed time Tom Gordon's pitching on may be coming to a close. Just 3-for-8 in save opportunities, he's off to the doc, too. If this is it for Gordon, he's had a great career. But what will Philly do? It's already short in the 'pen.

by sgfcards on May 7, 2007 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions

i do think izzy has trade value

but he's a 5 and 10 man, which complicates matters. he'll have to consent to any trade. he's a midwestern kid and joined the cards in part for that reason; if, say, the phillies or red sox made a nice offer on him, there's no guarantee that izzy would agree to play in one of those cities for the next year and a half.

by lboros on May 7, 2007 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't disagree that his

salary and 5/10 status complicates issues, but he doesn't he only have a year left on his contract? I just have a hard time imagining that too many guys wouldn't jump from a sinking ship for a chance to play on a champion for a year and a few months.

If Mariano Rivera doesn't come out of his funk soon, I could see Izzy in pinstripes.

by Zubin on May 7, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Last year

There was ZERO bullpen help available at the deadline. As you know, Cinci had to trade 2 quality starting position players and a closer prospect to get Gary Majewski and Bill Bray. Those are two mediocre middle relievers and someone will be stupid again. Isringhausen would undoubtedly be far and away the best bullpen chip available and would fetch a far greater price than I think anyone here is guessing here. Regained his stuff, manageable price next year, experience. He'd be the best bullpen arm on the market that I can remember in a long while.

Out in the desert, once Valverde's rate stats catch up with him, they are going to need a closer and they have more prospects than they know what to do with. Same deal in Cleveland and Borowski. Benitez isn't on firm ground in San Fran.

That said, it's May. Talk to me about fire sale in July.

Pujols you alive??

by joker24 on May 7, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions

We've won 2 out of 3

and the Rockies, a team who has been struggling as much as us, is coming into town. In other words, I don't feel like talking about "selling" right now.

Let's take another series and keep it rollin

Skip Schumaker Supporter!

by stltrav09 on May 7, 2007 2:05 PM EDT reply actions

Loop/Soup

Seems like Looper, even if he doesn't keep going as well as he has, could be by the trade deadline looking like Jeff Suppan did in 2003 -- somehow amazingly overvalued. Suppan (along with one other -- Brandon Lyon?) got the Pirates Freddy Sanchez and Mike Gonzalez from Boston. Such things are never certain, naturally, but seeing a return like that for use in 2009 and after sure would be nice.

File under the Kazmir talk, above.

by jfs on May 7, 2007 2:11 PM EDT reply actions

Definitely

Teams make some idiotic decisions at the deadline. That's why I think we could get some decent prospects without throwing away our team.

We could probably bring in a good bit for Looper (if he stays healthy) and guys like Springer or Franklin (teams always need set-up men down the stretch!). Also, if Enc comes back healty and does well, we could probably deal him. Even if we deal three of those four and purely recieved prospects in return, we could play at around the same level we would be without them.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on May 7, 2007 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Decicisions like Coco Crisp for Chuck Finley?

Hindsight is 20/20.

by Zubin on May 7, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Eh

Personally, I don't consider that too bad of a decision . . .

Crisp is decent, but nothing spectacular.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on May 7, 2007 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Terry Evans and Coco Crisp

Walt bats .500, gets a WS ring.

Plus, getting Chuck Finley was like getting two pitchers since he helped Andy Benes miss guys bats with the split...or the forkball or whatever it was.

youneverknow

by meat on May 7, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Idiotic decisions NOW.....

im my humble opinion...some teams make idiotic decisions now...28 million for Clemens? What the....?? This is a 45 yr. old pitcher, who is going to give them what? 5-6 innings at best per game....and lets face it, the Rocket is not what he used to be..Still good, sure, but not going to be enough to come into the Bronx and solve the pitching woes on that team ..come on... Think of what they could have gotten for that 28 million...and it's not like they Need him to put butt's in the seats either...

by Timbo02 on May 7, 2007 2:55 PM EDT reply actions

Rocket

So true!

by cardsgirl95 on May 7, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Rockies Series

This series really scares me. They are a hitting machine and its their pitching is what is letting them down. Holliday, probably the ultimate Cardinal killer, has been a stud this year along with most of their offense. Even Atkins and Hawpe are starting to come around. Its going to be very difficult to hold these guys below 5 runs a game. Plus they are pitching Francis (a lefty which we all know how well we hit lefties) and then Hirsch the finally game, which is an ace in training.

The Rockies have probably been the biggest disapointment in the majors this year and I hope they continue to struggle against us but I wouldn't bet on it.

by stl3bagger on May 7, 2007 3:47 PM EDT reply actions

The Cards can not make a deal now

they will be dealing from weakness. This team has plenty of time to turn things around. If we can pick up a role player or strengthen our bench in the sort term I would be ok with that.

I hope they hold off on any wholesale changes for a while.

"Boys this is a game HAVE FUN out there!"

by nybirdfan on May 7, 2007 4:19 PM EDT reply actions