Game 121 Open Thread: August 18, 2006
the glaring omission in derrick goold's article on the unrest in cardinal nation is any acknowledgment from any team official --- dewitt, lamping, anyone --- that the product is substandard this year. two 8-game losing streaks; blowout losses in marquee games; series losses / sweeps vs terrible teams (cubs royals pirates) --- they should be as disappointed in the cardinals as we are.
but judging from dewitt and lamping's comments in goold's article, they seem to regard the problem as mainly one of fans' heightened (read: unrealistic) expectations, rather than any failure on the organization's part to field a team that is worthy of a passionate fan base. sure, it's a "first-place" team --- but st louis fans are not stupid. and don't really like being treated as such.
i disagree strongly with the sentiments voiced at the end of that article, viz.: "cardinal fans are spoiled." in my book, you can't even be satisfied, much less spoiled, if you haven't won a championship in 24 years. cardinal fans are hungry. if dewitt & co find the burden of feeding us too odious, then sell the team already, cash out, and give us an ownership group that wants to win as badly as the fans do.
285 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
i couldnt
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 18, 2006 12:15 PM EDT reply actions
To be fair
Re:
Here, here Larry. These guys obviously see only what they want to see(mostly $$$$) and need to come out of their ivory tower once in a while.
preston wilson
by thats a winner on Aug 18, 2006 12:25 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks, DimitroffVodka
Another in a series of moves that display tight-fisted owners. I agree with lboros' thoughts. We deserve better.
by thats a winner on Aug 18, 2006 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He's better than Timo Perez
by andymac on Aug 18, 2006 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The disappointing thing is...
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Something is wrong with Cruz Jr...
No one has picked him up. What's the reason? I know he's not that great but I figured someone would take a chance. Maybe he has a bad attitude and it's finally caught up with him.
re: wanting a winner
by 26thMan on Aug 18, 2006 12:26 PM EDT reply actions
Reyes sent down
Question: Does sending Reyes down reduce his time with the big club by enough to keep him from being arb-eligible by an extra year? I remember there being discussion of this in relation to his call-up in June.
i believe it does...
No Wait - Reyes Optioned
"Rookie pitcher Anthony Reyes, who lasted only 3 1-3 innings in his shortest start on Wednesday and is 4-6 with a 4.73 ERA, was optioned to Triple-A Memphis. That move left the Cardinals with an 11-man pitching staff and could signal the return of Mark Mulder despite a so-so third rehab start on Thursday night."
by DimitroffVodka on Aug 18, 2006 12:32 PM EDT reply actions
Wouldn't it just be freaking wonderful
Intelligance like that
by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Aug 18, 2006 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeez
Who else wants to see the Cards sweep the cubs?
Lets see some hands people!
Oh lord...
But Mulder's a veteran!
Seriously, why don't we just trade for Jamie Moyer and Terry Mulholland? I bet the Mets could be tempted to part with Julio Franco, and I'm sure we can lure Jesse Orosco out of retirement to shore up the bullpen.
by Quietude on Aug 18, 2006 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
reyes
by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 18, 2006 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
4.63 ERA, 1.31 WHIP
by ryanisforever on Aug 18, 2006 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
more
http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/sports-bird-land/2006/08/cardinal-nations-climate/#more-5884
by sjoshi on Aug 18, 2006 12:36 PM EDT reply actions
Sounds like
Go get em Larry!!!
by vince eating tarp on Aug 18, 2006 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Amen...
by rockin redbird on Aug 18, 2006 12:42 PM EDT reply actions
actually...
Maybe...
by rockin redbird on Aug 18, 2006 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry, i know this is CRAZY long...
News: Mark Mulder (shoulder), who gave up five runs in four innings Thursday in a rehab start for Triple-A Memphis, said he would fly to Chicago, where the Cardinals were to start a three-game set against the Cubs, Friday. He said he didn't know whether a fourth rehab start would be necessary. "I could care less about the results," Mulder said. "I just wanted to throw strikes. I wasn't happy with the fact that I walked those guys. A few pitches I left up over the plate that they hit hard, but it was because I had gone ball one, ball two, whatever it was, and I was behind in the count."
Analysis: Mulder said pain wasn't a problem for him Thursday. "My biggest concern is getting my arm ready to go out there and be able to throw 90-100 pitches in a game," Mulder said. "I want to have the arm strength to be able to compete out there. My arm, as far as arm strength goes, is fine." The winningest pitcher in the majors from 2001-05, Mulder started the year 5-1 and had a 3.69 ERA after throwing 8 1/3 shutout innings against the Mets on May 17. Over his next six starts, Mulder had an 11.39 ERA and lost four of his five decisions. He had a 6.09 ERA when he went on the DL. Consider him a risky play for Fantasy Week 21 (Aug. 21-27) at this point. He might not return until late in that week.
Quote
That right there tells you why he can't not come back until this is corrected. If he has a different motion for his fastball than players will just sit waiting for the fastball. Since his fastball is so weak players should be able to completly jack it.
Shown what happened to him in this start.
by DimitroffVodka on Aug 18, 2006 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
oh well...
You know,
Is there anything wrong with trying to get groundballs? No, but making pitchers change their pitching style and get away from what they do best is a bad plan. And trying to turn a young fireballer like Reyes into Generic Groundball Pitcher #5 is just going to cost the team wins.
by Quietude on Aug 18, 2006 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Wilson
He's gone .364 / .378 / .545 against Cubbie pitching in '06.
I'd still
by The Ol Goaler on Aug 18, 2006 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Or So Taguchi
by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Aug 18, 2006 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah.....but...
LET CHRIS DUNCAN PLAY EVERYDAY !!!!!!!
Not platooned for sure...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Possibly.....
Yea, but
I would agree that the product on the field isn't the best, BUT I continue to believe there was no way to improve it this year. Where the tale will be told is over THIS offseason, when there are a lot of quality FAs available. If they pass this time, then all hell will -- and should -- break loose.
Larry
Thrown right into the fire...
David Eckstein SS Season .288 1 21
vs. pitcher .000 0 0
Chris Duncan LF Season .338 11 25
vs. pitcher .000 0 0
Albert Pujols 1B Season .326 35 94
vs. pitcher .333 0 1
Scott Rolen 3B Season .321 17 75
vs. pitcher .000 0 0
Juan Encarnacion CF Season .278 16 63
vs. pitcher .000 0 0
Preston Wilson RF Season --- 0 0
vs. pitcher --- 0 0
Ronnie Belliard 2B Season .260 0 5
vs. pitcher --- 0 0
Gary Bennett C Season .186 0 13
vs. pitcher 1.000 0 0
Jason Marquis P Season .167 0 4
vs. pitcher .000 0 0
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 1:31 PM EDT reply actions
Other than Bennett....
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 1:32 PM EDT reply actions
or maybe "accept".....
ha pitcher and catcher
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 18, 2006 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Lets talk playoff rotation...
#2 - umm...
I give up.
by EckEqualsClutch on Aug 18, 2006 1:33 PM EDT reply actions
I'd figure...
Carp
Suppan
Weaver
Marquis
With Mulder
Carp
Suppan
Mulder
Weaver
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
at this point?...
That's why I have Suppan and Weaver...
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Dewitt
it's like they don't know the difference.
i admit, there's a sick part of me that just wants to say screw the cards. if they are gonna be all business with me, then i can do the same and go watch another team that's committed to winning, not filling seats. i've just rooted for the cards so long that would be almost impossible.
Po-tay-toh Po-Tah-Toh
By the way, Mulder ain't ready, guys.
Any idea?
by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 18, 2006 1:50 PM EDT reply actions
Oh, I'd say
Get it?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
nothin
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe that
Constructive Criticism?
Sure blame it on ownership greed all you want but we all know from the Yankees that money doesn't instantly translate into winning. That's the beauty of sports, teams either come together and win or sputter and lose for reasons we don't always know.
be careful
by JMarq on Aug 18, 2006 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
If you think this is bad
Plus, well, the truth hurts.
Bill Dewitt
Hey, another Cards fan in the City..
Pujols against the Cubs...
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 2:09 PM EDT reply actions
Yikes....
.167/.494 OPS 0 HR 3 RBIs 1 2B 1/1 K:BB ratio
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Enjoy The Games
BP
by brianp88 on Aug 18, 2006 2:13 PM EDT reply actions
I'm ok with the Preston Wilson pickup..
But WHY wasnt Timo or So sent down?? Now we have a bunch of worthless scrubs on the bench (minus speizio).
Preston
That will keep my mouth shut up about him for awhile, unless he strikes out in his first AB.
Oh yeah...
by jose smokeindo on Aug 19, 2006 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
2 reasons to applaud the Wilson signing
- Timo will not be with the club much longer (once Mulder is activated)
- The Astros are basically picking up the tab. If it works out and he helps, that will make it all the more sweet.
I'll go out on a limb...
Of course, since there are absolutely no consequences to me being wrong, I'm not exactly taking a big risk here.
Not an XBH
by brianp88 on Aug 18, 2006 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Technically...
Gotta love
"Marmol in his last outing was quite good. He did walk eight and give up five hits though..."
in the words of Santo...
Pat: "There's another extra base hit for Ramirez."
Santo: "Yeah!"
by jose smokeindo on Aug 19, 2006 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd suggest
Duncan is
by allenbrent on Aug 18, 2006 2:26 PM EDT reply actions
If Dunc
by allenbrent on Aug 18, 2006 2:29 PM EDT reply actions
AP question
In the games
Juan Encarnacion?
Or do they not count? ;)
Way to serve it up, Marquis. <groan>
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
i meant...
Snap
Here comes
by allenbrent on Aug 18, 2006 2:35 PM EDT reply actions
i totally...
also: we better win this game, 'cos i don't think Suppan can out-duel Zambrano tomorrow.
i really really really want to win this series.
barrett
or maybe it's just marquis' pitching that scares me.
i hate barrett and marquis..
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 2:36 PM EDT reply actions
strike
I took that same approach
I would like to think that that was the reason why he improved. :)
Maybe I should do the same when Marquis pitches.
Okay, Preston
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 2:40 PM EDT reply actions
yeah
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 18, 2006 2:42 PM EDT reply actions
the only thing that
Yeah, Gary, great
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 2:44 PM EDT reply actions
MONTHS ago I complained that the Cards had...
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 2:44 PM EDT reply actions
Bennett
I have know idea
by allenbrent on Aug 18, 2006 2:46 PM EDT reply actions
If he were 35
by EBroglio on Aug 18, 2006 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope that TLR doesn't think
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Correction
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Could this be the makings of
by EBroglio on Aug 18, 2006 2:56 PM EDT reply actions
God I love Duncan
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 2:58 PM EDT reply actions
How close...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
According to Gameday
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHA
I was wrong
by 26thMan on Aug 18, 2006 3:00 PM EDT reply actions
What's going on?!
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:01 PM EDT reply actions
cubs suck
by SchwabbaMoose on Aug 18, 2006 3:01 PM EDT reply actions
What happened?
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 3:01 PM EDT reply actions
they tried to BB Pujols...
now, both benches are warned because Rolen gets beaned.
Beanball
by SchwabbaMoose on Aug 18, 2006 3:02 PM EDT reply actions
Holy crap..
...Wait... did you say Marquis is pitching...?
We're all gonna DIE!!!
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:02 PM EDT reply actions
help
by thats a winner on Aug 18, 2006 3:02 PM EDT reply actions
Someone else...
by SchwabbaMoose on Aug 18, 2006 3:03 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks Kindred
by thats a winner on Aug 18, 2006 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
yet another Cubs error
Marmol throws the ball away trying to pick off Rolen. Pujols scores. Rolen to 2nd.
Good lord
by 26thMan on Aug 18, 2006 3:06 PM EDT reply actions
As best as I can figure from the radio
As I type this, Marmol just threw past first on a pickoff. AP scores on Marmol's second throwing error of the inning.
Juan Enc
The CUBS SUCK!
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:07 PM EDT reply actions
Preston....
by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 18, 2006 3:07 PM EDT reply actions
Pujols hit a line drive that
A Cub underhand/sidearm threw it to second base, through the 2nd basemens legs as Pujols slide in. Pujols went to third and was GASED. He still almost got thrown out there.
Rolen then was plunked and an issue was warned. It wasn't intentional and the ump overreacted.
The pitcher then threw the ball away on a pick off attempt and Pujols scored, with Rolen going to second.
Juan hit a ball under the 2nd basemens glove and we had them at the corners.
The rest should be easy to figure out.
In essence, the Cubs are playing like the Cubs.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 3:07 PM EDT reply actions
Belliard
by SchwabbaMoose on Aug 18, 2006 3:08 PM EDT reply actions
I wish he would....
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Gameday broke....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 3:10 PM EDT reply actions
Gameday's completely befuddled
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:10 PM EDT reply actions
Never mind
Always good to see a Cubs meltdown. :D
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
What had happened....
Juan singled past a Cub, Rolen went to second
Wilson hit a high line drive to the SS and Isturiz leaped and stabbed it.
Belliard hit a long fly ball just short of the warning track to Pagan.
David Eckstein hurt his oblique muscle and is out of the game.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Stupid obliques...
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Wilson line out to SS...
Eck lifted from the game after throwing one warm-up toss. he was holding his side.
Eckstein is injured...
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 3:12 PM EDT reply actions
Oh great....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 3:13 PM EDT reply actions
Hey..
by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 18, 2006 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
and you would think...
Uh... TMI?
But I agree, the guy has been dreamy for us recently.
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Miles made a real nice pick at short...
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 3:17 PM EDT reply actions
what about
We're into their bullpen already
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:18 PM EDT reply actions
Hey Thanks!
thanks guys!
Gameday seems to be back
If Duncan keeps
by allenbrent on Aug 18, 2006 3:19 PM EDT reply actions
Finally
Oh my God
by allenbrent on Aug 18, 2006 3:20 PM EDT reply actions
Miles...weak...
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:23 PM EDT reply actions
Or not....
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
why
by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 18, 2006 3:23 PM EDT reply actions
I agree
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Gameday lies to me
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:28 PM EDT reply actions
ok on gameday
by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 18, 2006 3:31 PM EDT reply actions
ARAM with a 2 run HR (29)...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2006 3:31 PM EDT reply actions
GAAH
I hate Jason Marquis.
The funny thing was, I went upstairs for a while, imagined that happening while I was gone, and hey presto! it did.
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
miles is miles
by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 18, 2006 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
Miles
DAMMIT
so...
We haven't given up a non HR ER
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
mabes
just throwing that out there.
by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 18, 2006 3:36 PM EDT reply actions
Eckstein
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
I hope so...
by El Rojo Jefe on Aug 18, 2006 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
fielding error by shortstop Aaron Miles.
We get a lead, but lose Eckstein.
I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in thinking - Marquis is going to let them back in the game, and playing Miles at SS is going to hurt us.
Painful to see fears realized so quickly.
Albert looks really bad...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2006 3:40 PM EDT reply actions
Pujols
I guess we've just all gotten used to him being God.
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:40 PM EDT reply actions
Greek Tragedy?...
Can somebody find out
by allenbrent on Aug 18, 2006 3:41 PM EDT reply actions
According to BaseballReference.com
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He's at 30
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no faith...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 3:42 PM EDT reply actions
Tremendous Good News!
can Spivey play SS? Belliard? Spiezio? somebody not named Miles or Hart?
Did SF release
He might not be much more than a glove right now, but at least he's a glove right now.
Spivey's been tearing it up lately
What is it with oblique injuries?!?!?!
The Hated Damn Yankees blowing open ....
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2006 3:46 PM EDT reply actions
Me too.
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I want them both to lose, but ....
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2006 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
gotta hand it to pierre
by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 18, 2006 3:49 PM EDT reply actions
Juan Pierre
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:50 PM EDT reply actions
Here it comes..
by El Rojo Jefe on Aug 18, 2006 3:51 PM EDT reply actions
I feel about as comfortable with a 1 run lead
But?....
Welcome to St. Louis
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 3:55 PM EDT reply actions
Hot Damn
by allenbrent on Aug 18, 2006 3:55 PM EDT reply actions
Wow, the Blue Angels in a flyby....
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2006 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Lil Mookie
by Pujols4Pres on Aug 18, 2006 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
They said
by Pujols4Pres on Aug 18, 2006 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Step-dad, I think
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
This Wilson guy
I know this may
Preston Wilson
by El Rojo Jefe on Aug 18, 2006 3:56 PM EDT reply actions
PRESTON!!!
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 3:56 PM EDT reply actions
P-Wil
Thanks Drayton McClane
thats exactly why
by stlspecialsauce on Aug 18, 2006 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
Gary effin bennett?
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 18, 2006 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
trash heap
by thats a winner on Aug 18, 2006 4:00 PM EDT reply actions
Son of a B
A Bennett HR?!
by allenbrent on Aug 18, 2006 4:00 PM EDT reply actions
HOLY.... CRAP
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 4:00 PM EDT reply actions
The Cubs curse is officially over!!!!
Not anymore...
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Two in one inning?
OMG...
Who knows...
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes perfect sense....
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2006 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
makes sense
Marquis probably could use the boost.
Can we just send Timo down now...
I only hope
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 4:04 PM EDT reply actions
Does this qualify
shortstop
by Birdos in Mexico on Aug 18, 2006 4:05 PM EDT reply actions
Adam in
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 4:06 PM EDT reply actions
One just got started.
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Aug 18, 2006 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
suddenly our OF
by stlspecialsauce on Aug 18, 2006 4:07 PM EDT reply actions
BP continues...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 18, 2006 4:21 PM EDT reply actions



















