strained oblique grief counseling and Game 56 Open Thread: June 4, 2006
it's like i keep saying: you can beat the cardinals this year, but you still can't beat . . . .
. . . um . . .
. . . . .(cough).
the official word on albert's injury is "right oblique strain"; prognosis is 2 to 6 weeks on the shelf, maybe longer. doc paletta calls it "a serious concern" and adds: "This is an injury that we are going to be extremely cautious with, because if you send the guy out there too early, then you have a major setback and a major re-injury." and doc la russa says, "he's going to miss a significant period of time -- anywhere from little significant to real significant."
i checked in with will carroll of baseball prospectus, who concurs that the worst thing you can do vis-vis this injury is come back too soon from it; make that mistake and it can become a chronic condition that dogs you your whole career. neither the cardinals nor pujols can afford to let that happen; they'll err well on the side of caution, which makes a long disablement almost certain.
time to panic? definitely not; i mean, you panic when you can't find your kid in a crowd at the mall. but it is absolutely time to adjust our expectations. the playoffs are no longer a given; visions of a world championship run are now, let's say, premature. if you think the cards aren't in deep doo-doo, you're in deep denial.
just how deep is the doo-doo? let's wade right in. first question:
how bad will the offense be without albert?
we have various means of estimating the cardinals' albertless run-scoring ability, the first and most direct being baseball prospectus' marginal lineup value rate, or MLVr. this stat estimates (per BP's glossary) "the additional number of runs a given player will contribute to a lineup that otherwise consists of average offensive performers."
per this stat, albert is worth an extra 2/3 of a run per game -- easily the best total in the league among everyday players. the cardinals could replace albert with an elite hitter having a good year -- a-rod, vlad guerrero, manny ramirez, jason giambi -- and still be expected to lose 1/4 to 1/3 run per game. ditto if it were possible to clone scott rolen and stick the clone at 1st base -- or if the cardinals can pry bobby abreu free from the phillies. if they put spiezio at 1st and he maintains his improbably high level of production, they'd lose an estimated .4 runs per game -- and if speezer reverts to his career norms . . . . well, forget it. if the cards go out and pick up craig wilson or shawn green, they can expect the team's output to drop by half a run a game. and if they bring in a guy who's right around league average -- torii hunter, garrett anderson, cliff floyd, ken griffey -- they can expect to lose the full 2/3 of a run.
there's only one player in baseball who might be expected to step in and approximate albert's value to the lineup -- miguel cabrera.
david pinto gives us another way to estimate the per-game cost to the offense: his lineup toy, which i played around with often during the off-season. let's start by calibrating the toy against the cards' real-life statistics. it estimates that st louis (including albert) ought to have scored 5.088 runs per game so far in 2006; in reality, the cardinals have scored 5.074. damn near a bull's-eye; i guess we can place a fair degree of confidence in the toy's estimates. now let's replace albert with a generic .900 ops player, ie .375 obp .525 slg -- as if those sort of hitters are floating around for free. the toy estimates that this lineup would score 4.748 runs a game, or 1/3 run less than the albert-led lineup. if you plug in an .850 ops hitter, like craig wilson, the lineup loses another .1 run per game.
both of these exercises suggest that in a best-case scenario -- ie, the cardinals bring in a very good hitter to replace albert -- the offense is going to lose about 1/3 run per game. it's more likely the cost will be about half a run a game. what does that mean in terms of wins and losses? onward.
how will albert's lost run production affect the cards in the win column?
through 54 games, the cardinals were right in line with their pythagorean projection -- they had scored 271 runs and allowed 218 for a pythagorean record of 33-21, vs their real-life record of 34-20. (if you're not familiar with the whole pythagorean deal, click here.) if we replayed those 54 games with the albertless offense -- ie, the one described above that scores half a run a game less -- the cards' run total would drop to 244. plug 244 runs scored, 218 allowed into the pythagorean formula and you get a projected won-loss of 30-24 -- a three-game differential over the course of two months. all else remaining equal, then -- and we know it won't remain equal, but just go with it for the moment -- a two-month absence could be expected to cost the cardinals 3 games in the standings. a three-month absence would be expected to cost 4 to 5 games.
this might be a trustworthy estimate if ballplayers were robots, or if we were playing strat-o-matic baseball. but we're dealing with human beings, and their performance is going to be affected by albert's absence. fewer runs means tighter games, more pressure-packed at-bats, a slimmer margin of error for pitchers and fielders -- an altered work environment. some guys will rise to the challenge and raise their games for a few weeks; others will be placed in situations they're not suited to or start trying to do too much (not "stay within themselves") and play beneath their true capabilities. it can go either way. in 2003 the loss of one player -- isringhausen -- had a ripple effect throughout the whole team; they blew a bunch of winnable games early, morris and woody williams got overworked, and the failure to trade for a pitcher caused ill will in the clubhouse. in the end, that injury and its fallout probably cost the cardinals the division title. but in 2002 a much crueler loss -- the death of darryl kile -- seemed to bring out the best in the cardinals. andy benes returned from semi-retirement to stabilize the rotation, scott rolen's arrival provided a huge psychological boost, and the cardinals turned a close race into a runaway.
we'll just have to see how the cards react this time, but my gut tells me that if albert is gone for two or three months, it's going to cost the cardinals a lot more than 3 to 5 games in the standings. i think they'll do well to play .500 without him. consider this: if they'd had a league-average 1st baseman through the first 54 games instead of pujols, the cardinals would be 28th in the majors in home runs, ahead of only the royals and cubs. if that were the case, does anybody think they'd be much above .500 right now? (among mlb's bottom 10 teams in homers, the best record is san diego's 29-26). more to the point, as i noted a few days ago, albert is virtually the only cardinal hitter with a positive WPA (win probability added); he's at plus 456, while the other position players are a collective negative 176. i won't explain the whole win-probability thing here, but the upshot is that those numbers quantify what ev'y cardinal fan already knows: albert not only gets lots of hits, he gets meaningful ones -- game changers. as long as he's on the field, the cardinals never feel like they're out of it, and the opposition never feels too comfortable. sabermetricians haven't invented a tool to quantify that type of advantage, but i believe that it exists. i believe that, by his mere presence, he makes the team play sharper and with more confidence.
if the cards play .500 for the next two months, they'll be 61-47 come early august. if albert comes back at that point and they go, say, 32-22 down the stretch -- a couple of 16-11 months -- they'd finish with 93 wins and probably still be playing in october. but if albert's gone three months and the cards play .500 in his absence (hardly a given), they'll head into september with about 75 wins and likely need a red-hot stretch run -- say, 18-9 -- to nail down a postseason berth.
lot of assumptions in the foregoing paragraph, some of which will surely be way off base. but i'm just sketching out parameters. this is not going to be easy.
what are their options?
one, do nothing -- bring up daubach or chris duncan, platoon him at 1st with spiezio, accept the loss of elevation in the standings, and see where things stand at the trade deadline. don't commit prematurely; keep all options open. if, by mid-july, albert's back playing or close to it, and the cards are still in first place or within shouting distance, then the cards would still have time to upgrade the roster for the stretch run / playoffs. . . . but if albert doesn't look ready to get back onto the field any time soon, then it may make more sense to trade mulder supps and/or marquis for younger players, stick wainwright / reyes into the rotation, and be prepared to write off 2006 as a rebuilding year.
two, make a mid-level trade immediately to ward off a freefall. the cards already needed a bat but were hoping to bide their time until an advantageous partnership presented itself; now they may have no choice but to be the aggressors and overpay slightly to acquire craig wilson or eduardo perez or reggie sanders or trot nixon. at the upper end of this category, the cards might get soriano (see more info below in this comment) or shawn green or luis gonzalez -- if they're available, and if they won't cost the cards wainwright or reyes.
three, shoot the moon: gamble ev'ything to land an impact player like bobby abreu or miguel cabrera or dontrelle willis. by "gamble ev'ything," i mean be willing to break up the rotation or send wainwright/reyes abroad.
of the three, #2 seems like the likeliest option to me. while #1 does have some advantages, the cardinals can't run the risk of being noncontenders this year -- not after all the flak they've taken for the passive off-season and their perceived refusal to pay the salaries necessary to field a championship team. fans may hold their noses and live with the feeble replacements for walker, sanders, and KMOX -- but brian daubach standing in for pujols?? st louisans will be writing their congressmen. from a pr standpoint alone, they are gonna have to make a move. they'll wait a couple of days until they can get a better read on the probable duration of albert's recovery; i'd expect the trade to happen pretty shortly after that.
but i hope the cardinals won't overreact and go for option #3 -- not unless walter can somehow pry abreu free without giving up reyes or wainwright. i don't really see how that's possible, but the world is full of wonders.
Update [2006-6-4 12:24:21 by lboros]: late word on edmonds (thanks to steve in georgia): he's in the lineup today, playing 1st base.
Update [2006-6-4 13:46:37 by lboros]: here are the full lineups.
Update [2006-6-4 14:16:14 by lboros]: albert has been disabled; chris duncan recalled, is available for today's game.

marquis maddux
7-4, 4.75 6-4, 4.32
0 recs |
153 comments
Comments
Someone over at the PD boards
On a serious note, what kind of chance do you think we realistically have of getting Soriano from the Nats? Would they deal him, and could we get him and still keep Wainwright and Reyes?
by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 4:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In the Short Term...
He was pulled from the game in Memphis.
by whopperman on Jun 4, 2006 5:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great analysis of the situation Lboros
by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 8:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Stupid ass fans
by robdouth on Jun 5, 2006 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree with you
by rob is back on Jun 5, 2006 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey robdouth
you don't know half what you think you do. don't post in that tone on this site anymore.
by lboros on Jun 5, 2006 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I decided before the season that I wouldn't let baseball ruin my day (at least until October), and I've done pretty well by that so far. But I think this injury might make today a legitimate exception.
Now let's just beat Maddux and get the first of those many Albert-less wins we'll need.
by levistahl on Jun 4, 2006 9:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
good analysis
It sounds like Carp will be back soon, I'm not so sure about Jimmy. He actually is negative in MLV, but even last year when he was starting to show signs of decline last season his WARP was 8.5.
I dunno, am I missing something here?
by erik on Jun 4, 2006 9:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no, this doesn't even
re edmonds, the real issue isn't whether or not he keeps playing -- it's whether or not he's the same player. they can easily replace the v2006 edmonds, who (as you pointed out) has negative MLVr and is posting an ops in the .725 range. so taguchi can replicate that, even as an near-fulltime player. to get better production out of cf, two things have to happen --- a) edmonds has to make miraculous recovery from this hernia thing, and b) he has to rediscover his power stroke, which is anything but certain.
or they have to make a trade . . . .
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Immediate situation is....
We reevaluate at that point. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Craig Wilson play some first. At least I think he did last year?
Answering my own question, yes he does. He did about equal duty there last year between 1B and LF. Casey is scheduled to come back in the next few days. Does this push that trade to the forefront? Craig Wilson is the odd man out so does that push this trade to the forefront? Does this mean I should react and pick him up in all my fantasy baseball leagues?
by Brock20 on Jun 4, 2006 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Putting it into some perspective...
TRL thrives in situations where he gets to challenge his players with the ideals of toughness and team and "us against the odds". Our main focuses still need to be 1. using our current players to keep us in the race and 2. patiently waiting for the right deal to come along in the next 2 months that will better position us for the post-season push from August thru Oct.
by thinktank on Jun 4, 2006 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Edmonds to play at first today
by steve in georgia on Jun 4, 2006 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks steve
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by taiko on Jun 4, 2006 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd agree...
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets say that we make a midlevel trade for a
The Cubs my have built a house of straw this year but ours may very well be a house of sticks. Our rotation is underperforming (or just performing badly - take your pick) and several key contributers ath the plate have been underperforming (or again just performing badly).
In the rotation Ponson and Carpenter are the only ones who have pitched really well and Ponson's peripheral stats are not in line with what he is doing. Mulder, Marquis and Supp have all gone the opposite way we would have hoped for and while they are winning games, don't kid yourself into thinking that they are going to shut teams down.
The outfield is a revolving door of platoon players, some of whom have been producing - JRod most noticably - but if you ask Gooch and Bigbie to become near everyday players...well that bodes ill. Juan shows signs of life (read: mediocrity) at least. 2nd base has been lucky thus far and the left side of the infield has been solid in their roles. Molina...well...he's over .200
Now I'm not saying that this team won't make the playoffs. I think they can and will (provided albert comes back), but a midlevel trade is going to remove bargaining chips before we have a good grasp of the market. That translates into no big move come ASB, IMO - short of selling the future rotation (Wainwright and Reyes). I'm just not sure with Jimmy being a question and Carp having some mild setbacks that even with Albert we have what it takes come October to beat serious playoff-type teams (i.e. Mets, White Sox, Red Sox, etc.) I'm not in panic mode but I think the concerns I have for the ball club extend beyond the next 2-6 weeks and what a trade now could do to trades down the road with those in firesale mode.
by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 11:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
re soriano
that was before albt got hurt. does the injury increase the cards' interest . . . or diminish it?
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 11:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if the birds trade
as much as I hate the thought of it, your rebuilding year thing sounded OK to be. I'd like to see the birds trade away any current starter but carp for a decent prospect or two, stick reyes in the rotation and see how he pans out.
by PGeorge on Jun 4, 2006 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
considering that
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Jock
by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
got the thrill in exchange
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if we look beyond the Cardinals?
My memory is probably wrong. But here's what I remember.
ML players the Cubs have brought up:
Kerry Wood: 96 mph fastball
Mark Prior: might be dead, but has a 95 mph fastball
Corey Patteron - (gone) he certainly looks legit now
Koronka: (gone) looks like he can pitch at the ML level
Ronny Cedeno: major league level light hitting SS
Matt Murton: can hit at the ML level, may never hit 25 home runs/year
Sean Marshall: certainly looks good to me
Dontrelle Willis: traded, looks great
David Aardsma: Did he come up through the Cubs org? He has a 96 mph fastball and could be a great reliever
Should I mention Felix Pie?
ML players the Cards have brought up:
Albert Pujols: well, that's a biggie
Yadier Molina: great defense, attitude
ADam Wainright: good reliever, possible starter? Low 90s?
Dan Haren: (gone) I now believe that trade was stupid
John Rodriguez: WE didn't draft him, did we?
Brad Thompson? an ok reliever
Another reliever, I think
Reyes? Nope, not using him.
I'm really starting to look at this and shake my head. Our list sure is a lot shorter. And has a LOT fewer pitchers.
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess I could include Braden Looper
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
prospects
there is also jd drew, adam kennedy and jack wilson from the cards side.
by dmb60614 on Jun 4, 2006 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
I originally meant to include Drew. I'm never sure if we shoudl count him or not, since we only got him because he/his agent were jerks.
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kennedy/wilson
i just remembered coco crisp and placido polanco.
by dmb60614 on Jun 4, 2006 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
outstanding work, lb
by lb3000 on Jun 4, 2006 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In case we haven't shuddered enough
by cmat on Jun 4, 2006 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the worst thing we can do
Let's bide our time for a couple of weeks and see if Edmonds is healthy (and playing well) and see what Duncan/Daubach/Gall/Speizio can do. If we play .500 ball while Albert's out, we can consider that a victory and we can still win the division with what we've got.
As is obvious, we're going to have to add a bat anyway for the stretch run and the postseason. Let's wait a couple of weeks and get a better idea of what we'll need and what's available. It'll also give us time to figure out if we should trade prospects (not reyes and wainwright) or Marquis or Mulder.
by chuckb on Jun 4, 2006 12:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
please dont panic cardinals brass..
please keep our young talent so we can compete in the years to come..
with 4 of our 5 pitchers becoming free agents, and having pitched themselves well out of our price range, we NEED cheap options that can be competitive like Reyes/Wainwright for the rotation next year...
with our depth of pitching, we can keep this boat from sinking until albert gets back..
if you must make a deal, deal the guys we wont be able to resign next year, please...
by 2ndprize on Jun 4, 2006 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Next year
by svengali on Jun 4, 2006 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sticking With the Plan
Since March, my opinion has been that the team needed to add an impact contributor to the offense. The injury to Pujols obviously amplifies that need, but it always was there.
What I see as the biggest impact of the injury is that we likely will need an acquisition by early July, rather than late July, if Pujols is out for longer than 6 weeks. But I think this team can stumble around at about .500 during June, and that will keep us in the running for the post-season. Come October, with Pujols plus some impact acquisition in the line up, the team will be where it needs to be.
Looking forward, here are the coming match-ups:
Cincinnati (trouble)
@ Milwaukee (trouble)
@ Pittburgh (should win)
Colorado (trouble)
@ White Sox (huge trouble)
@ Detroit (toss up)
Cleveland (should win)
Kansas City (should win)
@ Atlanta (should win)
@ Houston (four games) (trouble)
It's not inconceivable that we can tread water against these opponents. And that takes us to July 9, the All-Star break.
The season does not start up again until July 13--41 days from yesterday, one day shy of six weeks, when, apparently, we may reasonably anticipate the return of El Hombre Grande.
by Titus Pullo on Jun 4, 2006 1:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
schedule
also, i'm not sure how Detroit - best record in MLB in maybe the toughest division - is a toss-up. or why we "should" beat Cleveland. Pitching match-ups will probably determine a lot in those series'.
Also, 6 of those 9 series are on the road. the Birds are much better on the home than road this year.
But first things first. we need to get this game against the Cubs. Then, if we can take 2 from Cinci and/or Brewers and at least 1 from the other, we should be in good shape.
The good news is that Cinci, Houston, and Milwaukee all have to play the ChiSox, Tigers, and Indians as well.
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
de lineups --- timo starts
CHI
pierre cf
womack 2b
barrett c
walker 1b
ramirez 3b
jacque rf
murton lf
cedeno ss
maddux p
STL
eck'n ss
gucci cf
rolen 3b
edmonds 1b
en'cion rf
timo lf
tony bennett c
luna 2b
marquis p
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
3 walks and an error in the first inning
by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
break the bank...
by birdland on Jun 4, 2006 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
break the bank...
i wouldnt want to break the bank on a rental player though. get a craig wilson or huff for 1b/of and put reyes in the rotation and see what happens.
by dmb60614 on Jun 4, 2006 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Atta boy Jimmy!
by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
News flash...
by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"Looks bad on Pujols," from Bernie
He told a teammate it hurts him to breathe.
One month, six weeks.
That's the inside buzz...
Although given Tony's impatience with injured players, I just hope they don't try to rush him back before he's truly ready.
Pujols officially on DL.
Duncan recalled.
--B"
by jms8897 on Jun 4, 2006 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't Izzy have the same thing last year?
Izzy was only out a couple of weeks wasn't he?
(Just trying to think positive here.)
by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Izzy had an abdominal strain
by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you tell I'm no doctor?
by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a right oblique strain that Izzy had
Of course, Albert's could be worse. Let's hope not...
by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's part of the abdominal
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
woody williams
by amettrick on Jun 4, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that he'll be adequate
Package deal with Grudz might also work.
Together MO can build one good team.
by royalsreview on Jun 4, 2006 3:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
haha
just an aside, the royalsreview website cracks me up, and makes me thankful Im from the east rather than west side of MO.
by PGeorge on Jun 4, 2006 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For God's sake Jason
by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 3:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I said it earlier and I'll say it again...
Say it'll rain, no matter what. If you're wrong, no one complains cause they are too busy enjoying the sunshine.
Of course it's going to hurt worse today, he pulled a muscle and then probably slept on it without any massage or heat or the like. It's going to get tight, but I'd imagine in a week and a half he'll be feeling well enough to swing a bat. Not that that means he should be playing in a week and a half, but he'll be at a point where they can work the soreness out on a gameday and he could play if it were September.
In other news: JED, you're the man. I hope we can get him to agree to a discounted 2 year deal that wipes out that option and allows us to keep him and still have money.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
five batted balls this inning
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
his sinker
i hope i'm not just freakin' out here, but it's not just losing pujols for a month or two that's killin' us, it's the crappy pitching. i just wonder if the luck is starting to run out with this soft tossing rotation.
by erik on Jun 4, 2006 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, this rotation
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so far ZiPS has been pretty darn close
Mulder era 4.71, ZiPS 4.22
Marquis 4.75, ZiPS 4.68
Suppan 5.06, ZiPS 4.52
Ponson 2.93, ZiPS 4.57
Carp 2.63, ZiPS 3.16
And Ponson has been really lucky with his 90% strand rate. Just not an real impressive bunch.
Free Reyes.
by erik on Jun 4, 2006 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell free Wainwright too
by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he look good against Maddux?
by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marquis
Good luck unloading him Walt...
by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Remind me again...
i can only assume it was to keep him happy in the short-term so we can sign him for a few years at a discount.
or not. i mean, you tell me.
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 3:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but about Marquis...
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the four walks
more to your point, think back to the BABIP discussion we had after jason's last start. when you pitch to contact as jason does, a certain number of grounders will find holes, and a certain number of bloops will drop in. simple law of averages.
jason has been inordinately lucky so far this year; the balls in play haven't been finding the holes. but today his luck is evening out.
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I understand that...
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Timo's on pace for what...
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Albert was playing through it?
It's possible. Who knows.
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Barrett makes an error on the steal
by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jimmy
by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
It's nice to be able to replace an All-Star with an All-Star at first base.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF
by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Note
by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pictures are taken...
by Quietude on Jun 4, 2006 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pics can be edited though
I guess Edmonds missed photo day this year. They are still using his pic from last year...
by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If nothing else,
by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
my wife...
i nearly fell off the sofa laughing.
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
WGN Announcers
What kind of thing is that to say? I can't believe someone is saying that on TV. It just seems inconsiderate and unnecessary.
Of course the Cardinals then had a 3 run inning so it at least makes me feel a little better.
by dontEATnachos on Jun 4, 2006 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The difference between Cards/Cubs fan...
Cub fans are gleeful to see El Hombre go down, because they've got nothing to cheer for.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, that and...
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
also, if you're a cubs / reds / astros / brewers fan, of course you want the cards to freefall, thats just being a fan of an opposing team.
by PGeorge on Jun 4, 2006 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, what?
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
those are the minority
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not Cub fans I'm talking about
The Braves announcers are so much better, making it so I actually enjoy watching the Cards-Braves games on TBS. But these WGN guys give me a headache.
by dontEATnachos on Jun 4, 2006 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's the specific issue
by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
I guess I'm having a hard time coming up with a good reason WHY they shouldn't say that. It just seemed unnecessary ... and made watching the game a little harder for me.
Although thanks to WGN I now know who to call about my Bextra lawsuit and Wilford Brimley educated me about my diabetes medication. If only there were someone for me to talk to about that infection I got from my Renu contact solution.
by dontEATnachos on Jun 4, 2006 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why
by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
why haven't we seen this
At least we won't get swept by the baby bears (knock on wood)
by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OMG did anyone else just see that curve
SICK!!!
by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it's no big deal...
Daubach's line: .296/.405/.521 with 8 dingers.
Duncan: .272/.352/.456 with 6 homers.
plus, Daubach plays 1b every day, while Duncan is mostly an OF now.
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think JED..
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my guess is they called duncan
but i wonder -- why not gall? they already have a bunch of lh bats on the bench (biggie jrod timo) . . . the only rh bat is bennett/molina
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to keep quibbling...
Daubach's numbers are better than Gall's (.307/.373/.434 with 3 homers), and Gall has been horrible in the bigs in limited action in '05 and '06.
if we need a 1b replacement, why not call up our next best 1b option? that seems to be Daubach.
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luna and Spiezio have seen playing time
by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gall hasn't been terrible
your point's well taken re daubach -- he's the best bat available. i'm just suggesting that it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to look beyond the batting lines and weigh other factors, too.
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, looking at the roster now..
Luna
Edmonds
Duncan
Speizo
Outfield possibilties:
Rodriguez
Luna
Gooch
Speizo
Bigbie
Perez
Luna, Speizo, Edmonds and Duncan can now play both ways. If Tony decides to bring Duncan into a game, he has more play with moving him either into an outfield position, or bring him to first and putting Edmonds out in the outfield.
Duncan just gives him another 'two way' fielder that can be placed late in a game to score runs.
(If there were errors in that, I'm sorry...I was rushed)
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you forgot Juan and Duncan in OF...
but hey, we won today. i really don't what combo we use if we can win some games.
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Juan is an everyday player this season...
Speizo and Luna can play either corner, as well. I'm just in the camp that when you are basically playing platoon games until El Hombre gets back...we should have more options. Duncan allows that.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JED's line
granted, he's had a good game. and granted, he's been facing major-league pitching. but even if Daubach slips .275/.370/.475 it'd be better than a handicapped JED, who may be a defensive liability at 1st. if Daubach does worse than that we could plug in JED or Speeze. if he plays well, Edmonds gets to rest up and get completely healthy, and we've still got a decent fill-in with Daubach.
we're not talking about a one-week replacement. we're potentially talking about a 4-6 weeks replacement. if we're talking about trading for Wilson (.274/.363/.512 and 9 homers and 3.4 million salary) or Huff (someone mentioned him and his .186/.281/.280 and 2 homers and 6.7 million salary). Daubach won't cost us anything in players or salary increase.
just saying it's worth a look, is all.
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say that's awfully optimistic to think
by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps...
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's Daubach's history?
by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a theory
by DanUpBaby on Jun 4, 2006 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's one real easy way to test that theory...
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Daubach a future Cardinal big leaguer?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well...
but if the question is who can contribute more to this team right now, with the needs that it has RIGHT NOW, i believe that the answer is Daubach.
and no one here has given me a real great reason why Duncan is a better choice.
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that their stats aren't...
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let wainwright hit
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 4:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wondered about that myself
I imagine the bullpen is still tired.
And now Blooper has given up two hits...
by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why tony why?
by sdesserman on Jun 4, 2006 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
cubs announcers
by PGeorge on Jun 4, 2006 4:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What a joke
by Brownale on Jun 4, 2006 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Marmol kid
by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
20 BBs, 21 Ks in 20 innings
by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 5:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it's not easy
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From the ap story in stltoday
"It just goes to show you it's a long season, No. 1," he said. "A No. 2, it's a test of really who has the most depth."
Baker said losing Pujols or Lee was a good comparison. The Cubs were 12-27 since Lee was hurt on April 21.
"There's a direct correlation," Baker said. "Big-time."
So, my question would be "If the Cards don't fall apart, is that a statement that the Cubs have little depth, or a reflection on your managing, Dusty? Dusty?"
by sdesserman on Jun 4, 2006 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To answer your rhetorical question,
by taiko on Jun 5, 2006 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marquis
by sdesserman on Jun 4, 2006 5:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's amazing
by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
as of this moment
that's a joke.
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're not doubting
by dontEATnachos on Jun 4, 2006 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given Jason's awful run of bad luck
Is there a stat that can factor in divine intervention, and how long it will last? :-)
by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they're trying...
by amettrick on Jun 4, 2006 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not the only one though....
You'd think, with a new life, they'd bare down and just throw strikes.
I still have hope for Mulder though. He's too good of a pitcher (in his career) to keep this up. Just don't let him start on Saturdays anymore.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How ridiculous would it be if....
Actually....I don't know that I would mind that.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that'd be fine with me
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless, of course...it's fielding a bunt...
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pedro only has 5 wins
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops, my error
by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of jokes
"I've gone out and made 12 starts. The eight I've won I deserved to win," said Marquis, who has winning streaks of three and five games on either end a four-game skid.
Does he really believe that?
by iron duke75 on Jun 5, 2006 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bernie at the P-D board:
Marquis was all but taking bows after getting the win today.
13 base runners and five ER in five innings.
And he really thinks he pitched well....
--B"
-wkw
by kindred on Jun 5, 2006 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Daubach's career line...
again, JED's line this year (before today): .252/.356/.395
i'm not sure exactly what it means, but stlcardinals.com has Duncan on the 40-man roster, but not Daubach. i know they've got one or two extra spots, but perhaps they want to save those for somebody. does that dramatically effect call-up decisions? if so, how? i'm really not sure how that all works.
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Daubach's last full season...
perhaps he's declin(ed)(ing). perhaps he's rebound(ed)(ing). i don't know. but there you have it.
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just got back
by rockin redbird on Jun 4, 2006 9:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Uh oh
by secretweapon on Jun 4, 2006 9:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ESPNews is reporting on the bottom that APU
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 9:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nevermind, apparently it was always scheduled
The trainer said:
"Now, we just go through the steps of getting him better," Weinberg said. "The first thing he has to do is normal things: coughing, sneezing and opening the door.
"Then we can get more aggressive with the rehab and we can get more aggressive with some baseball activity."
--------------------------
I watched that game yesterday. He ran to first base, he covered first base, he caught the ball at first base without a major grimace or crying out in pain. Why all of a sudden has he turned basically into a cripple?
I'm not implying anything, I geniunely want to know.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
These things happen...
by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oswalt...
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 10:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
MRI's are
by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 10:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Spiezio's back
by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no one over at the P-D board...
i'm honestly not sure why i keep harping on him anyway. i'm just kinda bored on this Sun. evening.
by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs



















