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Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

strained oblique grief counseling and Game 56 Open Thread: June 4, 2006

it's like i keep saying: you can beat the cardinals this year, but you still can't beat . . . .

. . . um . . .

. . . . .(cough).

the official word on albert's injury is "right oblique strain"; prognosis is 2 to 6 weeks on the shelf, maybe longer. doc paletta calls it "a serious concern" and adds: "This is an injury that we are going to be extremely cautious with, because if you send the guy out there too early, then you have a major setback and a major re-injury." and doc la russa says, "he's going to miss a significant period of time -- anywhere from little significant to real significant."

i checked in with will carroll of baseball prospectus, who concurs that the worst thing you can do vis-vis this injury is come back too soon from it; make that mistake and it can become a chronic condition that dogs you your whole career. neither the cardinals nor pujols can afford to let that happen; they'll err well on the side of caution, which makes a long disablement almost certain.

time to panic? definitely not; i mean, you panic when you can't find your kid in a crowd at the mall. but it is absolutely time to adjust our expectations. the playoffs are no longer a given; visions of a world championship run are now, let's say, premature. if you think the cards aren't in deep doo-doo, you're in deep denial.

just how deep is the doo-doo? let's wade right in. first question:

how bad will the offense be without albert?

we have various means of estimating the cardinals' albertless run-scoring ability, the first and most direct being baseball prospectus' marginal lineup value rate, or MLVr. this stat estimates (per BP's glossary) "the additional number of runs a given player will contribute to a lineup that otherwise consists of average offensive performers."

per this stat, albert is worth an extra 2/3 of a run per game -- easily the best total in the league among everyday players. the cardinals could replace albert with an elite hitter having a good year -- a-rod, vlad guerrero, manny ramirez, jason giambi -- and still be expected to lose 1/4 to 1/3 run per game. ditto if it were possible to clone scott rolen and stick the clone at 1st base -- or if the cardinals can pry bobby abreu free from the phillies. if they put spiezio at 1st and he maintains his improbably high level of production, they'd lose an estimated .4 runs per game -- and if speezer reverts to his career norms . . . . well, forget it. if the cards go out and pick up craig wilson or shawn green, they can expect the team's output to drop by half a run a game. and if they bring in a guy who's right around league average -- torii hunter, garrett anderson, cliff floyd, ken griffey -- they can expect to lose the full 2/3 of a run.

there's only one player in baseball who might be expected to step in and approximate albert's value to the lineup -- miguel cabrera.

david pinto gives us another way to estimate the per-game cost to the offense: his lineup toy, which i played around with often during the off-season. let's start by calibrating the toy against the cards' real-life statistics. it estimates that st louis (including albert) ought to have scored 5.088 runs per game so far in 2006; in reality, the cardinals have scored 5.074. damn near a bull's-eye; i guess we can place a fair degree of confidence in the toy's estimates. now let's replace albert with a generic .900 ops player, ie .375 obp .525 slg -- as if those sort of hitters are floating around for free. the toy estimates that this lineup would score 4.748 runs a game, or 1/3 run less than the albert-led lineup. if you plug in an .850 ops hitter, like craig wilson, the lineup loses another .1 run per game.

both of these exercises suggest that in a best-case scenario -- ie, the cardinals bring in a very good hitter to replace albert -- the offense is going to lose about 1/3 run per game. it's more likely the cost will be about half a run a game. what does that mean in terms of wins and losses? onward.

how will albert's lost run production affect the cards in the win column?

through 54 games, the cardinals were right in line with their pythagorean projection -- they had scored 271 runs and allowed 218 for a pythagorean record of 33-21, vs their real-life record of 34-20. (if you're not familiar with the whole pythagorean deal, click here.) if we replayed those 54 games with the albertless offense -- ie, the one described above that scores half a run a game less -- the cards' run total would drop to 244. plug 244 runs scored, 218 allowed into the pythagorean formula and you get a projected won-loss of 30-24 -- a three-game differential over the course of two months. all else remaining equal, then -- and we know it won't remain equal, but just go with it for the moment -- a two-month absence could be expected to cost the cardinals 3 games in the standings. a three-month absence would be expected to cost 4 to 5 games.

this might be a trustworthy estimate if ballplayers were robots, or if we were playing strat-o-matic baseball. but we're dealing with human beings, and their performance is going to be affected by albert's absence. fewer runs means tighter games, more pressure-packed at-bats, a slimmer margin of error for pitchers and fielders -- an altered work environment. some guys will rise to the challenge and raise their games for a few weeks; others will be placed in situations they're not suited to or start trying to do too much (not "stay within themselves") and play beneath their true capabilities. it can go either way. in 2003 the loss of one player -- isringhausen -- had a ripple effect throughout the whole team; they blew a bunch of winnable games early, morris and woody williams got overworked, and the failure to trade for a pitcher caused ill will in the clubhouse. in the end, that injury and its fallout probably cost the cardinals the division title. but in 2002 a much crueler loss -- the death of darryl kile -- seemed to bring out the best in the cardinals. andy benes returned from semi-retirement to stabilize the rotation, scott rolen's arrival provided a huge psychological boost, and the cardinals turned a close race into a runaway.

we'll just have to see how the cards react this time, but my gut tells me that if albert is gone for two or three months, it's going to cost the cardinals a lot more than 3 to 5 games in the standings. i think they'll do well to play .500 without him. consider this: if they'd had a league-average 1st baseman through the first 54 games instead of pujols, the cardinals would be 28th in the majors in home runs, ahead of only the royals and cubs. if that were the case, does anybody think they'd be much above .500 right now? (among mlb's bottom 10 teams in homers, the best record is san diego's 29-26). more to the point, as i noted a few days ago, albert is virtually the only cardinal hitter with a positive WPA (win probability added); he's at plus 456, while the other position players are a collective negative 176. i won't explain the whole win-probability thing here, but the upshot is that those numbers quantify what ev'y cardinal fan already knows: albert not only gets lots of hits, he gets meaningful ones -- game changers. as long as he's on the field, the cardinals never feel like they're out of it, and the opposition never feels too comfortable. sabermetricians haven't invented a tool to quantify that type of advantage, but i believe that it exists. i believe that, by his mere presence, he makes the team play sharper and with more confidence.

if the cards play .500 for the next two months, they'll be 61-47 come early august. if albert comes back at that point and they go, say, 32-22 down the stretch -- a couple of 16-11 months -- they'd finish with 93 wins and probably still be playing in october. but if albert's gone three months and the cards play .500 in his absence (hardly a given), they'll head into september with about 75 wins and likely need a red-hot stretch run -- say, 18-9 -- to nail down a postseason berth.

lot of assumptions in the foregoing paragraph, some of which will surely be way off base. but i'm just sketching out parameters. this is not going to be easy.

what are their options?

one, do nothing -- bring up daubach or chris duncan, platoon him at 1st with spiezio, accept the loss of elevation in the standings, and see where things stand at the trade deadline. don't commit prematurely; keep all options open. if, by mid-july, albert's back playing or close to it, and the cards are still in first place or within shouting distance, then the cards would still have time to upgrade the roster for the stretch run / playoffs. . . . but if albert doesn't look ready to get back onto the field any time soon, then it may make more sense to trade mulder supps and/or marquis for younger players, stick wainwright / reyes into the rotation, and be prepared to write off 2006 as a rebuilding year.

two, make a mid-level trade immediately to ward off a freefall. the cards already needed a bat but were hoping to bide their time until an advantageous partnership presented itself; now they may have no choice but to be the aggressors and overpay slightly to acquire craig wilson or eduardo perez or reggie sanders or trot nixon. at the upper end of this category, the cards might get soriano (see more info below in this comment) or shawn green or luis gonzalez -- if they're available, and if they won't cost the cards wainwright or reyes.

three, shoot the moon: gamble ev'ything to land an impact player like bobby abreu or miguel cabrera or dontrelle willis. by "gamble ev'ything," i mean be willing to break up the rotation or send wainwright/reyes abroad.

of the three, #2 seems like the likeliest option to me. while #1 does have some advantages, the cardinals can't run the risk of being noncontenders this year -- not after all the flak they've taken for the passive off-season and their perceived refusal to pay the salaries necessary to field a championship team. fans may hold their noses and live with the feeble replacements for walker, sanders, and KMOX -- but brian daubach standing in for pujols?? st louisans will be writing their congressmen. from a pr standpoint alone, they are gonna have to make a move. they'll wait a couple of days until they can get a better read on the probable duration of albert's recovery; i'd expect the trade to happen pretty shortly after that.

but i hope the cardinals won't overreact and go for option #3 -- not unless walter can somehow pry abreu free without giving up reyes or wainwright. i don't really see how that's possible, but the world is full of wonders.

Update [2006-6-4 12:24:21 by lboros]: late word on edmonds (thanks to steve in georgia): he's in the lineup today, playing 1st base.

Update [2006-6-4 13:46:37 by lboros]: here are the full lineups.

Update [2006-6-4 14:16:14 by lboros]: albert has been disabled; chris duncan recalled, is available for today's game.


marquis             maddux
7-4, 4.75            6-4, 4.32


0 recs  |  Comment 153 comments

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Someone over at the PD boards
had an interesting suggestion: acquire Glendon Rusch, and then lose him somewhere in the organization so we don't have to face him anymore. No sense in letting him pitch for us, since we are the only team he can beat.

On a serious note, what kind of chance do you think we realistically have of getting Soriano from the Nats? Would they deal him, and could we get him and still keep Wainwright and Reyes?

Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 4:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Soriano
the Nats' new owners want to rebuild, and Soriano is a pricey FA after this season. Word is they will be looking to move him, but they'd most certainly want young talent, close to ML-ready - i.e. Reyes or Wainwright.

by VanRam on Jun 4, 2006 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the Short Term...
Duncan will be brought up.

He was pulled from the game in Memphis.

by whopperman on Jun 4, 2006 5:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great analysis of the situation Lboros
I'd hate to be the one making the decisions here.

by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 8:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Stupid ass fans
Of all those options, #1 looks like the best. Why can't fans be patient. Damn this team always seems to produce, and would one year out of the playoffs be the worst thing? It would be great if we could develop Wainwright and Reyes if the season is decided as a bust. But #2 and god forbid #3 are so short sighted... and for what. Beer-swilling idiots that don't pay attention enough to the game to know how to win long term. I hope Jockety can do the right thing here and withstand the hail storm, or the fans have no one to blame but themselves when Jockety makes a deal that sells off the future for a player that "may" help now. If they get Gonzalez, then I hope you choke on it, because this team won't make the playoffs with that fading non-star. I wish you would actually pay attention to the D-backs before you talk about Gonzo as if he's worth anything the Cards have. The only thing he might be worth is a prospect position player given the amount of money he is being overpaid this year.
Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 5, 2006 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I tend to agree with you
At the same time, however, I think there are decent arguments to be made for the other options. Like you, though, I just don't want to see them throw away cash, talent, etc on a rental player who's not really going to help much.

by rob is back on Jun 5, 2006 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey robdouth
because somebody disagrees with you, that makes them stupid? a beer-swilling idiot?

you don't know half what you think you do. don't post in that tone on this site anymore.

by lboros on Jun 5, 2006 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks
Thanks for laying all that out, lboros. That's one of the things I value this blog for: going through all the depressing (or cheering, sometimes) possibilities so I don't have to, and doing it better than I would.

I decided before the season that I wouldn't let baseball ruin my day (at least until October), and I've done pretty well by that so far. But I think this injury might make today a legitimate exception.

Now let's just beat Maddux and get the first of those many Albert-less wins we'll need.

by levistahl on Jun 4, 2006 9:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

good analysis
Does some of these #'s take into consideration Jimmy's injury and Carp's? Or the fact that the pitching staff has been playing below expectations so far? (That's right Mulder, I'm looking at you!)

It sounds like Carp will be back soon, I'm not so sure about Jimmy. He actually is negative in MLV, but even last year when he was starting to show signs of decline last season his WARP was 8.5.

I dunno, am I missing something here?

by erik on Jun 4, 2006 9:34 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

no, this doesn't even
address edmonds / carp. i'm assuming that all other factors will remain equal, which is not very realistic in certain cases.

re edmonds, the real issue isn't whether or not he keeps playing -- it's whether or not he's the same player. they can easily replace the v2006 edmonds, who (as you pointed out) has negative MLVr and is posting an ops in the .725 range. so taguchi can replicate that, even as an near-fulltime player. to get better production out of cf, two things have to happen --- a) edmonds has to make miraculous recovery from this hernia thing, and b) he has to rediscover his power stroke, which is anything but certain.

or they have to make a trade . . . .

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Immediate situation is....
spezio.  We were singing his praises a couple weeks ago and I think he can hold the fort for at least two weeks.  Part Two:  everybody pray to your major deity or lack thereof that Albert is only on the shelf for two or three weeks.  

We reevaluate at that point.  Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Craig Wilson play some first.  At least I think he did last year?  

Answering my own question, yes he does.  He did about equal duty there last year between 1B and LF.  Casey is scheduled to come back in the next few days.  Does this push that trade to the forefront?  Craig Wilson is the odd man out so does that push this trade to the forefront?  Does this mean I should react and pick him up in all my fantasy baseball leagues?  

by Brock20 on Jun 4, 2006 10:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Huff
also plays 1B and OF and is a lefty

by VanRam on Jun 4, 2006 10:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Putting it into some perspective...
this is more severe but similar to missing Scotty/Reggie/Walker last year...and much less devastating than the loss of Kile during the season.  In both instances the team pulled together, with obviously much better results in last year's scenario.  These kinds of situations are why Walt/TRL look for character and "stones" in their choices of ball-players.  This is when it really pays off to have created that extra-special something in wearing the "birds on the bat".  This group will find a way to scrap and find that extra something to survive while JED, Carp, and El Hombre are getting healthy.  They may not have the lead in the division when all are back in the line-up but they will not collapse.  Look at the long list of those "marginal" players who have stepped it up in a Cardinal uni when it had to be done...Nunez, Cairo, Mabry, Hart, and even the current group of So, Luna, Spezio, Eck, etc.

TRL thrives in situations where he gets to challenge his players with the ideals of toughness and team and "us against the odds".  Our main focuses still need to be 1. using our current players to keep us in the race and 2. patiently waiting for the right deal to come along in the next 2 months that will better position us for the post-season push from August thru Oct.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

by thinktank on Jun 4, 2006 11:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Edmonds to play at first today
Per Wayne Hagin on KMOX's Sport on a Sunday Morning.

by steve in georgia on Jun 4, 2006 11:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

thanks steve
i question the wisdom of this decision . . . . seems to me they're taking a big chance on turning a small injury into a large one

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
As mentioned in a Hardball Times article last month, Albert had become one of the best, defensively, at turning poor throws into outs. This implies both a lot of talent and hard work on his part, and a lot of poor throws coming his way. We don't need Edmonds, a guy with some sort of sports hernia/abdominal weakness, stretching in all directions to reach these skeet shots from Eckstein and company.

by taiko on Jun 4, 2006 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd agree...
...but I'm beginning to wonder the ability of the Cardinals medical staff to diagnose an injury.  They make it sound as if Albert may have to have his right side removed to save his life.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lets say that we make a midlevel trade for a
Craig Wilson type.  Does anyone here think this is a WS team even when Albert gets back?

The Cubs my have built a house of straw this year but ours may very well be a house of sticks.  Our rotation is underperforming (or just performing badly - take your pick) and several key contributers ath the plate have been underperforming (or again just performing badly).

In the rotation Ponson and Carpenter are the only ones who have pitched really well and Ponson's peripheral stats are not in line with what he is doing.  Mulder, Marquis and Supp have all gone the opposite way we would have hoped for and while they are winning games, don't kid yourself into thinking that they are going to shut teams down.  

The outfield is a revolving door of platoon players, some of whom have been producing - JRod most noticably - but if you ask Gooch and Bigbie to become near everyday players...well that bodes ill.  Juan shows signs of life (read: mediocrity) at least. 2nd base has been lucky thus far and the left side of the infield has been solid in their roles.  Molina...well...he's over .200

Now I'm not saying that this team won't make the playoffs.  I think they can and will (provided albert comes back), but a midlevel trade is going to remove bargaining chips before we have a good grasp of the market.  That translates into no big move come ASB, IMO - short of selling the future rotation (Wainwright and Reyes). I'm just not sure with Jimmy being a question and Carp having some mild setbacks that even with Albert we have what it takes come October to beat serious playoff-type teams (i.e. Mets, White Sox, Red Sox, etc.)  I'm not in panic mode but I think the concerns I have for the ball club extend beyond the next 2-6 weeks and what a trade now could do to trades down the road with those in firesale mode.

by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 11:34 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

re soriano
the newark star ledger claims st louis has been making overtures: "The Cardinals have been one of the teams most actively letting the Washington Nationals know of their interest in potentially available outfielder Alfonso Soriano."

that was before albt got hurt. does the injury increase the cards' interest . . . or diminish it?

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 11:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if the birds trade
for someone like soriano (meaning a free agent to be), I certainly hope they do so with the intention of resigning him.  the worst thing that could happen, in my opinion, is for the cardinals to panic, trade away reyes / wainwright to get a soriano type, only to have pujols injury keep him out longer than expected, causing the cards to miss the playoffs, and then not resign soriano.  

as much as I hate the thought of it, your rebuilding year thing sounded OK to be.  I'd like to see the birds trade away any current starter but carp for a decent prospect or two, stick reyes in the rotation and see how he pans out.  

by PGeorge on Jun 4, 2006 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

considering that
mulder, marquis, and supps have eras in the 5.00 range, it would probably help the rotation to put reyes in there, no matter who they get back in a trade

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Jock
goes into panic mode(although I don't think he will), the Nats will hold him up for everything they can get. I keep remembering 2000(?) when he brought in Will Clark for the stretch run; maybe he can pull another miracle out of his hat.

by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if we look beyond the Cardinals?
You know, I've been thinking lately.  especially as I watch Sean Marshall.   Especially as I watch Sean Marshall strike out Pujols twice.

My memory is probably wrong.   But here's what I remember.  

ML players the Cubs have brought up:
Kerry Wood:  96 mph fastball
Mark Prior:  might be dead, but has a 95 mph fastball
Corey Patteron - (gone) he certainly looks legit now
Koronka:  (gone) looks like he can pitch at the ML level
Ronny Cedeno:  major league level light hitting SS
Matt Murton:  can hit at the ML level, may never hit 25 home runs/year
Sean Marshall:  certainly looks good to me
Dontrelle Willis:  traded, looks great
David Aardsma:  Did he come up through the Cubs org?  He has a 96 mph fastball and could be a great reliever
Should I mention Felix Pie?

ML players the Cards have brought up:
Albert Pujols: well, that's a biggie
Yadier Molina:  great defense, attitude
ADam Wainright:  good reliever, possible starter?  Low 90s?
Dan Haren:  (gone) I now believe that trade was stupid
John Rodriguez:  WE didn't draft him, did we?
Brad Thompson?  an ok reliever
Another reliever, I think

Reyes?  Nope, not using him.  

I'm really starting to look at this and shake my head.  Our list sure is a lot shorter.   And has a LOT fewer pitchers.

by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 12:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I guess I could include Braden Looper
but we didn't use his cheap years and now we're overpaying for him.

by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

prospects
aardsma and murton were acquired via trade (aardsma in the latroy hawkins deal and murton in the nomar trade).  the thing is, the cubs have had high first round picks because of lousy records meanwhile the cards had low ones or lost ones due to signing free agents.  you expect the cubs to crank out more prospects than the cardinals.

there is also jd drew, adam kennedy and jack wilson from the cards side.

by dmb60614 on Jun 4, 2006 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK
What did we get for Kennedy and Wilson?

I originally meant to include Drew.  I'm never sure if we shoudl count him or not, since we only got him because he/his agent were jerks.

by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

kennedy/wilson
we got edmonds for kennedy/bottenfield.  we got pretty much nothing for jack wilson.  

i just remembered coco crisp and placido polanco.

by dmb60614 on Jun 4, 2006 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

outstanding work, lb
hopefully the add'l revenue from getting the stadium fully complete comes into play here.  Spend the money now in the short term for a rental, and keep Reyes/Wainwright and their small salaries in the long term.
8/13/79- Lou Brock 3000 hits

by lb3000 on Jun 4, 2006 12:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In case we haven't shuddered enough
I have a feeling we're gonna see Juan'cion batting 4th from time to time, especially when Edmonds needs a rest. Ugh...these are gonna be some dog days of summer...

by cmat on Jun 4, 2006 12:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the worst thing we can do
is panic and trade reyes and wainwright.  I'm not opposed to trying to add Abreu or Soriano, but we can't mortgage the future for it.  Reyes and Wainwright must be 40% of the rotation next year and, unless we also get a solid starter for next year's rotation back, we can't trade either one of them.  

Let's bide our time for a couple of weeks and see if Edmonds is healthy (and playing well) and see what Duncan/Daubach/Gall/Speizio can do.  If we play .500 ball while Albert's out, we can consider that a victory and we can still win the division with what we've got.

As is obvious, we're going to have to add a bat anyway for the stretch run and the postseason.  Let's wait a couple of weeks and get a better idea of what we'll need and what's available.  It'll also give us time to figure out if we should trade prospects (not reyes and wainwright) or Marquis or Mulder.

by chuckb on Jun 4, 2006 12:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

please dont panic cardinals brass..
i hope we dont make a move just to make a move. thats why we have encarnacion...

please keep our young talent so we can compete in the years to come..

with 4 of our 5 pitchers becoming free agents, and having pitched themselves well out of our price range, we NEED cheap options that can be competitive like Reyes/Wainwright for the rotation next year...

with our depth of pitching, we can keep this boat from sinking until albert gets back..

if you must make a deal, deal the guys we wont be able to resign next year, please...

by 2ndprize on Jun 4, 2006 1:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Next year
The Cards are just in a bad position for the next couple seasons.  For my part, I'd like to see Walt try and bring in a couple above-average bats to fill out the lineup and make a good run at it this year.  If they fall short of a WS, I think it's imperative they take a year or two to rebuild.  With Pujols, Rolen and Carp on this team they'll be competitive every year, so it's not like we'd have to worry about fighting the Pirates for last place.

by svengali on Jun 4, 2006 1:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sticking With the Plan
I don't think the injury to El Hombre radically changes the Cardinals' trade strategy.  I think it just magnifies the needs that were present before hand, and possibly advances the time table by a few weeks.  

Since March, my opinion has been that the team needed to add an impact contributor to the offense.  The injury to Pujols obviously amplifies that need, but it always was there.  

What I see as the biggest impact of the injury is that we likely will need an acquisition by early July, rather than late July, if Pujols is out for longer than 6 weeks.  But I think this team can stumble around at about .500 during June, and that will keep us in the running for the post-season.  Come October, with Pujols plus some impact acquisition in the line up, the team will be where it needs to be.

Looking forward, here are the coming match-ups:

Cincinnati (trouble)
@ Milwaukee (trouble)
@ Pittburgh (should win)
Colorado (trouble)
@ White Sox (huge trouble)
@ Detroit (toss up)
Cleveland (should win)
Kansas City (should win)
@ Atlanta (should win)
@ Houston (four games) (trouble)

It's not inconceivable that we can tread water against these opponents.  And that takes us to July 9, the All-Star break.  

The season does not start up again until July 13--41 days from yesterday, one day shy of six weeks, when, apparently, we may reasonably anticipate the return of El Hombre Grande.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Jun 4, 2006 1:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

schedule
yeah, i looked at the upcoming schedule last night. other than the Brew-Crew, Bucs, and Royals, every other team is over .500.

also, i'm not sure how Detroit - best record in MLB in maybe the toughest division - is a toss-up. or why we "should" beat Cleveland. Pitching match-ups will probably determine a lot in those series'.

Also, 6 of those 9 series are on the road. the Birds are much better on the home than road this year.

But first things first. we need to get this game against the Cubs. Then, if we can take 2 from Cinci and/or Brewers and at least 1 from the other, we should be in good shape.

The good news is that Cinci, Houston, and Milwaukee all have to play the ChiSox, Tigers, and Indians as well.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

de lineups --- timo starts
and womack's in there for chicago; give the guy a nice hand, people

CHI
pierre cf
womack 2b
barrett c
walker 1b
ramirez 3b
jacque rf
murton lf
cedeno ss
maddux p

STL
eck'n ss
gucci cf
rolen 3b
edmonds 1b
en'cion rf
timo lf
tony bennett c
luna 2b
marquis p

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 1:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

3 walks and an error in the first inning
...and so it begins :-(
Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 2:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

break the bank...
If you can break the bank to get cabrera but not have to give up reyes and wainwright (give up rasmus and hearther and parts of the rotation to someone to get more prospects to miami (three way?) would you do it?  I'd like to hear lots of opinions, throw them out there.  I say yes, this year i believe may already be lost, though i realize not completely, and i think with cabrera next year really would be the year.
Cardinals Jayhawks all the way.

by birdland on Jun 4, 2006 2:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

break the bank...
would i do that?  hell yeah!  would the fish?  hell no!  no reason to deal cabrera if they arent getting premium major league ready prospects in return.  we just cant put together that kind of package without including reyes and wainwright.  mulder/marquis/supp just arent going to fetch much in return.  maybe mulder, but thats debatable.

i wouldnt want to break the bank on a rental player though.  get a craig wilson or huff for 1b/of and put reyes in the rotation and see what happens.

by dmb60614 on Jun 4, 2006 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

jim edmonds
you are the man.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 4, 2006 2:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Atta boy Jimmy!
Good shit!
Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 2:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

News flash...
Bennett didn't strike out!

by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 2:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"Looks bad on Pujols," from Bernie
"He felt worse today when he came to the ballpark.... worse than how he felt yesterday.
He told a teammate it hurts him to breathe.

One month, six weeks.

That's the inside buzz...

Although given Tony's impatience with injured players, I just hope they don't try to rush him back before he's truly ready.

Pujols officially on DL.

Duncan recalled.

--B"

by jms8897 on Jun 4, 2006 2:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm
Everytime that I've had an injury where I had trouble breathing it always healed quickly. That probably doesn't mean anything, but here's hoping Pujols heals quickly too.

by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't Izzy have the same thing last year?
Or was it a different muscle that Izzy strained?

Izzy was only out a couple of weeks wasn't he?

(Just trying to think positive here.)

Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Izzy had an abdominal strain
which sounds more like Edmonds injury.

by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you tell I'm no doctor?
Apparently an oblique muscle is part of the abdomen, so you might be right.

by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was a right oblique strain that Izzy had
Found the story here.

Of course, Albert's could be worse. Let's hope not...

Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's part of the abdominal
but it's on the side.   So, for instance, you couldn't turn your torso or swing a bat.

by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

woody williams
i remember about 3 years ago woody was dealing with an oblique strain, and it kept him out for about a month i believe.
The St. Louis Cardinals: No Curses, No Excuses, Just Wins

by amettrick on Jun 4, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not that he'll be adequate
But Reggie Sanders might not be a bad idea.
Package deal with Grudz might also work.

Together MO can build one good team.

http://www.royalsreview.com

www.royalsreview.com

by royalsreview on Jun 4, 2006 3:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

haha
I like the MO team idea.  

just an aside, the royalsreview website cracks me up, and makes me thankful Im from the east rather than west side of MO.  

by PGeorge on Jun 4, 2006 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For God's sake Jason
They got three runs for you off of Maddux. Don't give it right back to them...
Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 3:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I said it earlier and I'll say it again...
..the Cardinals med staff is like the weather man:

Say it'll rain, no matter what.  If you're wrong, no one complains cause they are too busy enjoying the sunshine.

Of course it's going to hurt worse today, he pulled a muscle and then probably slept on it without any massage or heat or the like.  It's going to get tight, but I'd imagine in a week and a half he'll be feeling well enough to swing a bat.  Not that that means he should be playing in a week and a half, but he'll be at a point where they can work the soreness out on a gameday and he could play if it were September.

In other news: JED, you're the man.  I hope we can get him to agree to a discounted 2 year deal that wipes out that option and allows us to keep him and still have money.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 3:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

five batted balls this inning
only one a ground ball . . . .

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 3:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

his sinker
just isn't working. Still up, still flat. Not to mention the walks. for once in a while, his breaking pitch has looked good.

i hope i'm not just freakin' out here, but it's not just losing pujols for a month or two that's killin' us, it's the crappy pitching. i just wonder if the luck is starting to run out with this soft tossing rotation.

by erik on Jun 4, 2006 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, this rotation
really isn't very good. it's not terrible, but if it's supposed to be the peg on which we hang our title hopes . . . . .

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so far ZiPS has been pretty darn close
on nailing this rotation

Mulder era 4.71, ZiPS 4.22
Marquis 4.75, ZiPS 4.68
Suppan 5.06, ZiPS 4.52
Ponson 2.93, ZiPS 4.57
Carp 2.63, ZiPS 3.16

And Ponson has been really lucky with his 90% strand rate. Just not an real impressive bunch.

Free Reyes.

by erik on Jun 4, 2006 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hell free Wainwright too
Wainwright has been stellar in the pen but getting more innings out of him is starting to make sense as those ERAs climb.  I'm worried about what happens if all we get is draft picks for all these FA pitchers.  I'd like to see us get either a rental player or a prospect of some sort for at least ONE of the four.

by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't he look good against Maddux?
Obviously Maddux isn't going to scare him much, but that's my point; it's like Marquis is afraid out there.

by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marquis
is a phucking headcase.

Good luck unloading him Walt...

Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 3:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Remind me again...
... why we gave Marquis more money than Carp this offseason?

i can only assume it was to keep him happy in the short-term so we can sign him for a few years at a discount.

or not. i mean, you tell me.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 3:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but about Marquis...
...hasn't Jacque Jones been the only one to hit him hard?

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 3:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the four walks
haven't helped . . . .

more to your point, think back to the BABIP discussion we had after jason's last start. when you pitch to contact as jason does, a certain number of grounders will find holes, and a certain number of bloops will drop in. simple law of averages.

jason has been inordinately lucky so far this year; the balls in play haven't been finding the holes. but today his luck is evening out.

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I understand that...
...I'm watching this in Gameday and it just seemed that besides the walks, he's not getting rocked like Mulder was yesterday.  They just seem to be hitting them where they ain't.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Albert was playing through it?
The CUbs announcers made a point:  If Albert's injury is that serious, perhaps yesterday just made it really bad.  He could already have had some sort of problem, and that could contribue to why they didn't put Edmonds on the DL.

It's possible.   Who knows.

by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 3:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Barrett makes an error on the steal
Hope he doesn't slug Taguchi when he comes home...
Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 3:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Jimmy
I'm fallen in love all over again

by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 3:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree...
...the 'TEAM' offense has suddenly come to life.  What, were they too busy watching El Hombre hit the first two months of the season.

It's nice to be able to replace an All-Star with an All-Star at first base.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thank god
they didn't put him on the dl a couple days ago.
The St. Louis Cardinals: No Curses, No Excuses, Just Wins

by amettrick on Jun 4, 2006 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WTF
why id Timo still in a White Sox hat on Gameday.  Are you telling me MLB doesn't have enough photographers to take a flippin picture of him in the right flippin hat?!?!?!

by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 3:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Note
please don't construe this as me liking Timo Pererz being on our roster...but if he's going to be in my gameday, I just want him in the right hat.

by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pictures are taken...
during Spring Training, and they normally don't update them.

by Quietude on Jun 4, 2006 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The pics can be edited though
When we acquired Ponson, they took his Baltimore mugshot (no pun intended) and digitally added a Redbird cap.

I guess Edmonds missed photo day this year. They are still using his pic from last year...

Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If nothing else,
I love seeing Maddux get knocked around...

by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 4:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

my wife...
... and i went grocery shopping this morning and heard me bitch the whole time about Pujols and about how much JuanCion has sucked. well, when he came up just now, before he hit the second double, she said, sweetly: "Juan is the loneliest number."

i nearly fell off the sofa laughing.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 4:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Your wife
is a funny lady, lol.

by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 4:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

WGN Announcers
"Cubs fans hope that the Cardinals will do the same kind of freefall that they have without Albert Pujols"  or something to that effect.

What kind of thing is that to say?  I can't believe someone is saying that on TV.  It just seems inconsiderate and unnecessary.

Of course the Cardinals then had a 3 run inning so it at least makes me feel a little better.

by dontEATnachos on Jun 4, 2006 4:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The difference between Cards/Cubs fan...
Cards fans were sad to see DLee go down, because you don't want to win a division that way.

Cub fans are gleeful to see El Hombre go down, because they've got nothing to cheer for.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, that and...
... we drink Bud and they drink Old Style.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think
you can say that about a particular fan base.  Im sure everything evens out, some people want him to get hurt, some dont.  If you go over to the bleed cubbie blue website, most of them are saying they wish pujols hadn't got hurt, wanted him to break bonds record.  

also, if you're a cubs / reds / astros / brewers fan, of course you want the cards to freefall, thats just being a fan of an opposing team.

by PGeorge on Jun 4, 2006 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh, what?
Maybe you've misssed the "Pujols deserved it", "I wish someone would punch Pujols" and "Edmonds is gay" posts.

by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

those are the minority
most of the BCB guys have been grown ups about this

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, but
I'm not referring to this incident.

That blog has really turned me off a few times.

by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not Cub fans I'm talking about
I agree that labeling an entire fan base like that is uncalled for... I'm just saying it's frustrating when the announcers say this kind of stuff.  I mean, it's a national broadcast.

The Braves announcers are so much better, making it so I actually enjoy watching the Cards-Braves games on TBS.  But these WGN guys give me a headache.

by dontEATnachos on Jun 4, 2006 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If that's the specific issue
what's the problem?  Of cousre they want us to lose some games.   If we don't lose, how to they gain ground?

by sdrone on Jun 4, 2006 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm
It was just the way they said it that kind of struck me a little bit.  I just have a hard time thinking of any announcer I've heard say, "We hope that an injury to your player sends this team into a horrible losing streak."

I guess I'm having a hard time coming up with a good reason WHY they shouldn't say that. It just seemed unnecessary ... and made watching the game a little harder for me.

Although thanks to WGN I now know who to call about my Bextra lawsuit and Wilford Brimley educated me about my diabetes medication.  If only there were someone for me to talk to about that infection I got from my Renu contact solution.

by dontEATnachos on Jun 4, 2006 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's why
I have the tv muted and Rooney and Shannon on play by play..

by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 4:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

why haven't we seen this
team offense thing before today...
At least we won't get swept by the baby bears (knock on wood)

by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 4:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

OMG did anyone else just see that curve
2nd strike - from Wainwright...

SICK!!!

by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 4:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

it's no big deal...
... but why didn't we call up Daubach instead of Duncan?

Daubach's line: .296/.405/.521 with 8 dingers.

Duncan: .272/.352/.456 with 6 homers.

plus, Daubach plays 1b every day, while Duncan is mostly an OF now.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 4:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think JED..
..will be playing 1st base for the next week or so, except on his days off.  No way can we risk putting him in center and impeding his recovery.  Plus, 1st seems to suit his bat.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least until
Spezio comes back...

by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

my guess is they called duncan
because he can play both lf and 1b. it's gonna be a mix-match situation, so his multipositionality (new word !!!!) prob'y is the reason

but i wonder -- why not gall? they already have a bunch of lh bats on the bench (biggie jrod timo) . . . the only rh bat is bennett/molina

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not to keep quibbling...
... but we've got enough OF, even without JED (Juan, So, Luna, J-Rod, Bigbie, Spiezio). we don't need Duncan there.

Daubach's numbers are better than Gall's (.307/.373/.434 with 3 homers), and Gall has been horrible in the bigs in limited action in '05 and '06.

if we need a 1b replacement, why not call up our next best 1b option? that seems to be Daubach.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Luna and Spiezio have seen playing time
in the OF only because no one has been able to capture that everyday starting job but they both were billed as infield bench replacements.  

by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

gall hasn't been terrible
only 49 at-bats, and he's hit .265 and slugged .449 . . . 2 hr, 11 rbi. that's not bad production in a limited sample.

your point's well taken re daubach -- he's the best bat available. i'm just suggesting that it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to look beyond the batting lines and weigh other factors, too.

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, looking at the roster now..
Infield possibilities:
Luna
Edmonds
Duncan
Speizo

Outfield possibilties:
Rodriguez
Luna
Gooch
Speizo
Bigbie
Perez

Luna, Speizo, Edmonds and Duncan can now play both ways.  If Tony decides to bring Duncan into a game, he has more play with moving him either into an outfield position, or bring him to first and putting Edmonds out in the outfield.

Duncan just gives him another 'two way' fielder that can be placed late in a game to score runs.

(If there were errors in that, I'm sorry...I was rushed)

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you forgot Juan and Duncan in OF...
... and i forgot Timo. but Luna and Molina have both filled in at 1b this year, as has Spiezio and JED. so now we've got 8 outfielders (not including JED) and 5 guys who can play 1B in a pinch. i think we could cope with 7 outfielders, and 4-5 potential 1B (depending on whether or not you count Yadi) by subtracting Duncan and adding Daubach.

but hey, we won today. i really don't what combo we use if we can win some games.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Juan is an everyday player this season...
...Molina is too, in essence.

Speizo and Luna can play either corner, as well.  I'm just in the camp that when you are basically playing platoon games until El Hombre gets back...we should have more options.  Duncan allows that.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

JED's line
.252/.356/.395 with 5 dingers.

granted, he's had a good game. and granted, he's been facing major-league pitching. but even if Daubach slips .275/.370/.475 it'd be better than a handicapped JED, who may be a defensive liability at 1st. if Daubach does worse than that we could plug in JED or Speeze. if he plays well, Edmonds gets to rest up and get completely healthy, and we've still got a decent fill-in with Daubach.

we're not talking about a one-week replacement. we're potentially talking about a 4-6 weeks replacement. if we're talking about trading for Wilson (.274/.363/.512 and 9 homers and 3.4 million salary) or Huff (someone mentioned him and his .186/.281/.280 and 2 homers and 6.7 million salary). Daubach won't cost us anything in players or salary increase.

just saying it's worth a look, is all.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say that's awfully optimistic to think
Daubach can hit that.  Plus as much as we like Pujols defense at first, that is not the part that is likely to cost us any games.  Jed will be fine at first.  And this gives us (most likely) a better bat and gives us a little time to evaulate the situation and the trade front for a while

by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps...
... but i just don't see how Duncan helps us, and i can see how Daubach might.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's Daubach's history?
If I remember correctly he's new to the organization this year, so where was he before this?  Does he have any major league experience?  I'm kinda pickin on him just because I like Gall more so than Daubach but I'm not sure I really know that much about him.

by azruavatar on Jun 4, 2006 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a theory
That players who've spent a lot of time in AAA or are aging ex-sluggers with old player skills--Daubber fits both counts--end up taking advantage of their league, to the point that their translations are no longer very relevant.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 4, 2006 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there's one real easy way to test that theory...
... and it doesn't involved leaving Daubach in AAA.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well...
... most likely neither, if the question is who will be a long-term major contributor.

but if the question is who can contribute more to this team right now, with the needs that it has RIGHT NOW, i believe that the answer is Daubach.

and no one here has given me a real great reason why Duncan is a better choice.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The fact that their stats aren't...
...that much different and Duncan can play two positions and he has a more likelihood of being a bench player for the Cards over the next couple years.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

let wainwright hit
the kid blew em away last inning; he's got more homers than bigbie this season . . . .

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 4:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I wondered about that myself
Why make unnecessary pitching changes...especially after what happened Friday...

I imagine the bullpen is still tired.

And now Blooper has given up two hits...

Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why tony why?
Johnson was dominating, and blooper gets barrett out once a year.

by sdesserman on Jun 4, 2006 4:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

cubs announcers
are making fun of larussa for pulling johnson.  and I completely agree with the announcers on this one.  another classic case of larussa overmanaging.  

by PGeorge on Jun 4, 2006 4:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What a joke
LaRussa can be. He can be the Wile E Coyote of baseball since he always tries to be a super genius and it blows up in his face. With 9 runs it shouldn't even be an issue. Let one of our two guys who is running thru the Cubs stay in the game. Lucking Ramirez got out.

by Brownale on Jun 4, 2006 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That Marmol kid
has some pretty nasty stuff...

by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 5:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

it's not easy
to walk jacque jones, either

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

From the ap story in stltoday
"Cubs manager Dusty Baker did not have too much sympathy. The Cubs lost Derrek Lee with a broken wrist in April and also have played much of the year without pitcher Mark Prior and Kerry Wood.

"It just goes to show you it's a long season, No. 1," he said. "A No. 2, it's a test of really who has the most depth."

Baker said losing Pujols or Lee was a good comparison. The Cubs were 12-27 since Lee was hurt on April 21.

"There's a direct correlation," Baker said. "Big-time."

So, my question would be "If the Cards don't fall apart, is that a statement that the Cubs have little depth, or a reflection on your managing, Dusty?  Dusty?"

by sdesserman on Jun 4, 2006 5:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Marquis
He of the 5+ era and 8 wins.  Gotta make you chukcle.

by sdesserman on Jun 4, 2006 5:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's amazing
that he leads the team in wins, isn't it?

by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 5:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

as of this moment
he is tied for the major-league lead in wins --- schilling, pedro, and brandon webb also have 8.

that's a joke.

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're not doubting
Marquis' wicked pitching skills are you?  He won us this game ....

by dontEATnachos on Jun 4, 2006 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Given Jason's awful run of bad luck
last year, I wonder if the baseball gods are trying to make it right with him this year...

Is there a stat that can factor in divine intervention, and how long it will last? :-)

Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 4, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they're trying...
...to give him wins and he's trying his best to give them right back.
The St. Louis Cardinals: No Curses, No Excuses, Just Wins

by amettrick on Jun 4, 2006 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not the only one though....
...I think, if memory serves me, Mulder and Soup have both given up some runs, only to have the Redbirds give them a lead back, only to have them go back out there and give up more runs.

You'd think, with a new life, they'd bare down and just throw strikes.

I still have hope for Mulder though.  He's too good of a pitcher (in his career) to keep this up.  Just don't let him start on Saturdays anymore.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How ridiculous would it be if....
He posted a 6.00 ERA this season, almost 2.00 higher, but wins 20 games, where as last year he couldn't win more than 15 and posted a 4.13.

Actually....I don't know that I would mind that.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that'd be fine with me
but i wouldn't want him anywhere near a mound come october

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless, of course...it's fielding a bunt...
..from his second base position.  Come now, we need his bat :P

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pedro only has 5 wins
he's 5-1 with a 2.50 ERA

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oops, my error
i meant that other met pitcher --- glavine. he's got the 8 wins . . . and a 2.59 era. webb's era is 2.01. schilling's is 3.86.

by lboros on Jun 4, 2006 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of jokes
Comments by Marquis after the game:

"I've gone out and made 12 starts. The eight I've won I deserved to win," said Marquis, who has winning streaks of three and five games on either end a four-game skid.

Does he really believe that?

Then: Here comes "that man" again... Now: Aqu? viene "ese hombre" otra vez...

by iron duke75 on Jun 5, 2006 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bernie at the P-D board:
"you would have been really irritated after the game.

Marquis was all but taking bows after getting the win today.

13 base runners and five ER in five innings.

And he really thinks he pitched well....

--B"

-wkw

by kindred on Jun 5, 2006 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Daubach's career line...
... .259/.341/.476 in 661 games.

again, JED's line this year (before today): .252/.356/.395

i'm not sure exactly what it means, but stlcardinals.com has Duncan on the 40-man roster, but not Daubach. i know they've got one or two extra spots, but perhaps they want to save those for somebody. does that dramatically effect call-up decisions? if so, how? i'm really not sure how that all works.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Daubach's last full season...
... was '02, when he posted a .266/.348/.464 line for Boston, with 20 homers and 24 doubles in 137 games. since then he played 95 games for ChiSox in '03 (.230/.352/.388) and 30 games for Boston in '04 (.227/.326/.413).

perhaps he's declin(ed)(ing). perhaps he's rebound(ed)(ing). i don't know. but there you have it.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just got back
from the game and first dinner at Moonman's new joint. What a day! Gotta say that Albert being placed on the 15 day DL perhaps has lit a fire under the rest of team's asses. They looked better today than they have for a couple weeks. Jed, So, Rolen, even newbie Timo looked great on the field and in the box. I'd never go as far as saying Albert being out is "good" for the team--but if today is any indication, I don't think there's any reason to panic. They DID remember how to play like our beloved Birds today, and it broke what seemed was a bad team slide. Maybe they did need Albert out of the picture to realize that they can't depend on him to win every damn game for them. We'll see how they do with the Reds next. If they take 2 of 3, I'll believe reports of the Cardinals demise being more than premature. One game proves nothing, but I sure felt better watching them play today. Just my 2 centavos, but my advice is not to panic. Lotta ball left to go, I seriously doubt a freefall is in the making, and Albert WILL be back.  

by rockin redbird on Jun 4, 2006 9:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Uh oh
I couldn't help but notice the picture of this Clausen guy who the Cards are facing tomorrow.  He has an exceptionally flat hat bill; he is like the poor man's Anthony Reyes.  If he is wearing knee high socks we are screwed.    
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." -- Hunter S. Thompson

by secretweapon on Jun 4, 2006 9:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ESPNews is reporting on the bottom that APU
is having an MRI tomorrow. Why?  Just routine?  And if so, why didn't he have one today or yesterday?

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 9:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

MRI
from what i understand, you have to wait 18-24 hours with these kinds of strains to get a clear picture of how much damage there is. i'm not sure why... maybe for swelling/bruising to go down?

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nevermind, apparently it was always scheduled
for Monday.

The trainer said:

"Now, we just go through the steps of getting him better," Weinberg said. "The first thing he has to do is normal things: coughing, sneezing and opening the door.

"Then we can get more aggressive with the rehab and we can get more aggressive with some baseball activity."

--------------------------

I watched that game yesterday.  He ran to first base, he covered first base, he caught the ball at first base without a major grimace or crying out in pain. Why all of a sudden has he turned basically into a cripple?

I'm not implying anything, I geniunely want to know.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 4, 2006 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

These things happen...
I ended up with a pinched nerve in my lower left back just from bending over 2 years ago.

by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oswalt...
... was scratched from his start today with back spasms. that, along with his tweaked hammy, could have him missing some time.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 10:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

MRI's are
almost always a routine procedure in cases like this; plus if there's any swelling or inflammation, they have to wait until it subsides enough to get a true read(I've had an MRI before).

by cardsrul on Jun 4, 2006 10:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Spiezio's back
I don't know if any of you noticed, but apparently Spiezio will rejoin the team tommorrow, according to this article on mlb.com. That's very good news imo, because I was worried he might be out much longer.

by rob is back on Jun 4, 2006 10:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

no one over at the P-D board...
... seems to agree with me re: Daubach either, so i guess i'm just smoking crack or something.

i'm honestly not sure why i keep harping on him anyway. i'm just kinda bored on this Sun. evening.

by kindred on Jun 4, 2006 11:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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