it ain't easy being groin

by lboros on Jun 1, 2006 2:03 AM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News

edmonds does not have a sports hernia, but he is probably going to the dl. his teammates are uneasy enough about the injury that two of them pulled bernie miklasz aside after the game yesterday and asked him to turn up the heat on the cardinals' owners:

A couple of the players (no names) wanted to know if I was going to try to put some pressure on the owners to give Jocketty some spending room to make a deal if something arises. (They're nervous about Edmonds).

miklasz posted that at his p-d chat forum in this thread -- see the last post on the page. and here's the resulting column. hard to disagree with any of it, really; if the owners aren't willing to take on one more big contract, or insist on offsetting any such addition with a commensurate subtraction, the cardinals are going to have a difficult time steeling the roster for october.

in another thread, miklasz said there's "nothing serious going on" tradewise as yet:

Some interest in Abreu but not unless the Phils pick up a chunk of the tab.... Jocketty always keeps some things on the down low .... I believe he's got his eye on Cabrera, but boy, that seems like a long shot.

abreu was the subject of much discussion on bernie's radio show yesterday morning, with speculation that mulder -- whom the phillies have scouted for two consecutive starts -- would be the asking price. i can't believe the cardinals would contemplate that type of swap unless they had already acquired jason schmidt or dontrelle willis.

another rumor, which popped up over the holiday weekend (i missed it), has st louis trading for pittsburgh's craig wilson -- and giving up anthony reyes in the deal. don't see that one happening, either.

single-a sensation jaime garcia yielded his 1st homer of the season and got tagged for 3 runs in 5 innings, but he still posted his 4th win. struck out 6 guys in 5 innings, didn't walk a man -- now has a k/w ratio of 65:14 on the season. baseball america has taken notice of garcia (hat tip to matt leach for that link); so has baseball prospectus' kevin goldstein.

chris lambert turned in his 2d straight strong outing for springfield, got a no decision. in his last 5 starts (28.2 innings) he has yielded 27 hits, walked 10, and struck out 25; is 2-1 with a 3.45 era in that span. maybe there's hope for him yet. nice article about him at MiLB.com. see also this one about stu pomeranz, who pitches tonight vs midland.

as long as we're looking at double a: nick stavinoha closed the book on a horrendous month last night with an 0 for 3 performance. his may line: .180 / .206 / .262. for the season he's at .258 / .279 / .379, with 4 walks and 30 strikeouts. . . . lest you get too discouraged, stavinoha did spend time on the DL this month with a bad ankle sprain; that ailment could still be giving him trouble and might explain the recent slump.

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Late night review

I couldn't watch the second half of the game today so I'm watching the TIVOed version now. Not the best of games, but I understand the good guys win in the end.

Anyway, interesting comment about the players who approached PD columnist Miklasz about pressuring Walt to spend some Benjis on a bat. When people on here get all atwitter, it's just another day of overreactions. When the players are bugging reporters to fire up the management, that seems pretty serious to me.

By the way, there's nothing in the quoted article or in any other report saying that Jimmy doesn't have a sports hernia. They may hope he doesn't but it hasn't at all been ruled out as you suggest. Indeed, all indications seem to indicate that that is the most likely the case.

Regarding all this trade talk, don't players have to be available before you can trade for them? On the other hand, we could take Chicago's example and find somebody about to be released and trade for them. Any suggestions? Or maybe we coud follow the Astros' lead and redraft some retirees. I hear Stan Musial is feeling a little better now...

Back to the game as I watch it late.. Tony, why are you using Izzy here in the 9th?

Oh well, good night (or good morning, as the case may be).

by glamberson on Jun 1, 2006 2:52 AM EDT reply actions

Izzy

Using your closer in the 9th of a tie game, when you are the home team, is the proper move, usually. Once it hits the 9th, you no longer need to save him to "protect the lead." Izzy in the 9th was the right call yesterday.

by flynn on Jun 1, 2006 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions

CF

if edmonds it out, it might more sense to go after Torii Hunter - a solid CF?

Cardinals Diaspora

by Ryan Van Bibber on Jun 1, 2006 8:46 AM EDT reply actions

Not Hunter, don't believe the hype

no, an overrated centerfielder... He's also not worth the 10 million and the pitcher that would have to be given up to get him. He's a great defender but he's streaky offensively. And if we are talking about replacing Edmonds, it should at least start with talk of a lefty bat.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions

I like Hunter's defense but...

he certainly doesn't seem to be worth $10m to me. I should have checked his salary before taking the centerfielder poll!

by sdrone on Jun 1, 2006 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions

LOL

Yeah, I think maybe Jockety came to the sight and voted for Timo Perez a couple of times because of his price tag.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Musings

First off - very interesting blog as of late lboros. Always is but I think lately the caliber of conversation has been evne more excellent and exciting.

I hadn't remembered the Phillies as looking for another pitcher but geez wouldn't a trade like that just delight a lot of us as Cardinals fans. If WJ could send Mulder for Abreu (I'm not sure who would need to incclude some spare parts because they are both high value players) and then find away to acquire Schmidt - best of both worlds in my opinion. But I think that any Schmidt trade has to begin and end with Kid Reyes and I'm not sure that long term its in our best interests to trade him.

If the Giants are willing to trade Schmidt it means one thing - they are out of contention. That means that they are going to have to rebuild and what better way than a star pitching prospect and some double minor league outfielders like stavinoha as well. They will need to get that outfield younger FAST after this year and Schmidt is the kind of player we may have to sell the farm to get.

I guess what I'm driving at is while I personally find a Mulder for Abreu trade feasible (and actually the more I think about it very very plausible from a Gillick standpoint) I still don't know how you replace Mulder in the rotation unless WJ and TLR see Kid Reyes as a Mulder caliber pitcher ready for our rotation right now.

by azruavatar on Jun 1, 2006 8:48 AM EDT reply actions

Don't trade Mulder

I don't even want to think about the Cardinals trading Mulder for a bat. If you stop and think about it, Mulder was one of the things missing in 2004 that could have prevented the Cards from winning the WS. IMO, they desperately need a left-hander in the rotation. Even though I would hate to depart with either Reyes or Wainwright, that seems like better options to use as trade bait than Mulder.

by BigdJC on Jun 1, 2006 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Don't drop lefty

This is a good point, and why would you like the prospect of Schmidt instead of Mulder. We aren't getting a vaccuum packed 2003 Jason Schmidt mint condition here. We would be getting him as damaged goods, and there is no gaurantee that he would return to his old form. We've been lucky on injuries, why do you want to throw an injury prone pitcher into the mix. Next your going to say we should deal Mulder and look into Wood or Prior???

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I would have to disagree with your assessment

of Schmidt. He doesn't appear to be damaged goods. In fact, he has looked dynamic.

Last night: 10 K's in 5 2/3. His velocity is up and there is a 10-15 mph difference between his change or curve and his fastball.

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 1, 2006 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Schmidt is doing better

Ok, I'll admit, Schmidt does have a stigma in my mind, and he has pitched very well in May. However, 4 of those games are against teams that either aren't hitting well right now, or weren't when he was facing them. 10K's is impressive (if you're facing the Yankees) but it's not as impressive if you're facing the Marlins. If he's mixing his pitches well and like you said, his velocity is up, then maybe there is hope, but I think the fact that the NL West is weak, will keep the Giants in the race long past the point of being able to pick up Schmidt.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions

You are correct

about the NL West. You don't have to outrun the bear, just outrun the guy next to you.

I don't see anybody being hopelessly out of contention for a long time in that division.

So Schmidt might not be available. In fact, KNBR was speculating that the Giants were looking for a bullpen arm.

That move would pretty much clinch a pennant for them (ahem...)

by BozCardsFanSF on Jun 1, 2006 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe for the first time ever,

I agree with Bernie; DeWitt already has the cash in his pocket, so why worry? Maybe if these players who talked to Bernie(and I'm hoping Pujols was one of them) made a big enough stink to either Jock or DeWitt himself, something might get done.

by cardsrul on Jun 1, 2006 8:58 AM EDT reply actions

Abreu

Abreu is somebody that we who enjoy the stats should be pretty excited about. His production is consistently excellent and he gets on base at a great clip even when struggling at the plate.

That said, I wonder about his focus, which has been discussed as a weakness. How would he fit into the St. Louis Cardinal mindset of grinding out every game? Additionally, we would have a horrid outfield defensively. A fair number of the fielding measuring tools tell us that Abreu is a marginal defender, undeserving of his Gold Glove. Do we really need two corner outfielders with similar mental approaches and shaky defense?

Of course, it is a significant upgrade and it is doubtful that anybody better could be acquired.

If we are thinking of trading Mulder, doesn't this mean that we have decided our chances of re-signing him are slim?

by bgh on Jun 1, 2006 9:25 AM EDT reply actions

IIRC

there were questions about Jimmy Edmonds' focus when he was out in Anaheim. I think the change of scenery would be great for Abreu and inspire some great results.

I don't think you can compare him to Encarnacion. Juan hit .280 last year and people were buying party favors.

Abreu actually has some talent and takes a walk more than once a month. His mashing makes up for any defensive lapses he might have.

by Matt @ Viva El Birdos on Jun 1, 2006 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Focus

My grandmother lives in Philadelphia and made a point of telling me last week when she was visiting that Abreu is just plain lazy. She's certainly a fan, but the fact that my grandmother could watch a Phillies game and identify him as lazy on her own worries me.

We've got JRod and JuanE already, I don't know that we need another lazy corner outfielder.

That said, his stats are certainly something to drool over.

by STLEdge on Jun 1, 2006 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Don't forget Eck

How many times did we hear about Eckstein's "shaky" defense and hear it listed as a liability. Anyone still agree with that? And he doesn't even have a gold glove...

by effin fisk on Jun 1, 2006 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Abreu

You guys act like Abreu is horrible in the field or something. You do know he won the GG last year. How bad could he really be?

by DimitroffVodka on Jun 1, 2006 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Gold gloves and 4$ will buy you a coffee

Bonds won a gold glove... remember that? I think it was the year before Sosa did it also? GG's mean absolutely nothing. In fact if no one is playing like A. Jones and Edmonds, they shouldn't even bother to award a third one. They should just say, no one meets the standard and we will instead give a silver glove, or bronze glove award for the third fielder. In the same line, Wright won a GG cause of no Rolen, and Jeter has won a GG because of no Vizquel, A-Rod, injuries to Crosby, and Tejada, and basically no competition at Short. Abreu could have won it for the same reason that Bonds won it... He didn't work hard to go after the ball. It's hard to have any errors when you let everything fall in front of you.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Sammy never

won a Gold Glove

by salvomania on Jun 1, 2006 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

OF

Just musings, but anyone think we could take a shot at Jason Bay or Alex Rios? Rios is young and could be the answer to the injured edmonds, hes hitting .364 and had 10 HR in May alone

by MarcGldstn on Jun 1, 2006 10:04 AM EDT reply actions

I doubt it

The Blue Jays are in the thick of the AL East race and Rios is young and cheap. The Pirates would never give up Bay.

by MDredbird on Jun 1, 2006 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions

Miniscule

The Jays are not trading Rios with Burnett's return on the horizon and the vast amount of money they spent in the offseason to win now. Plus, his production and cheap salary make him an ideal player for the Jays given the previously mentioned increase in payroll. They are 2.5 games back in the AL East and they intend to win it or the Wild Card this season.

The Pirates just signed Jason Bay to an extension and he is one of the few bright spots on their club. Burnitz or Wilson seem much more likely to be moved. Burnitz is on the decline and with his past strike out numbers, it is not going to be a pretty end for him. Wilson is a 1B or a DH without a position in Pitt now that Sean Casey is on the mend.

by bgh on Jun 1, 2006 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Toronto won't deal

They are in contention, so why would they want to lose one of the reasons they are there. It would take a lot more than he is worth, and this is his first break out year. Do you really want to spend as much as it would take to see him fall off possibly?

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions

AL-NL change

Also are you willing to be patient for the first year he struggles as he gets used to NL pitching.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions

One big wild card is the

new ownership in Washington. The deal is done, but the Lerners won't take control of the club until sometime this month. There is some question about whether they will put a premium on getting better right now or if they will work to stock up for the future. What I'm getting at is that the fate of Soriano is tied up in the priorities of the new owners (and possibly a new GM). Soriano is growing in popularity here and the new guys might see him as a relatively short-term keystone guy they will want to sign for goodwill among fans and to indicate a desire to win. OTOH, if they're totally committed to player development (as they say they are) they may dump him for prospects asap.

And as for the inevitable comments that will crop up about his defense in the OF, I can say this: 1) He IS getting better out there (and he certainly has the wheels to play there), and 2) Lonnie Smith played on FIVE World Series teams. 'Nuff said.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 1, 2006 10:11 AM EDT reply actions

And let's nor forget Whitey's quote:

"Every time I look up I expect to see Lonnie on his a$$."

by sdrone on Jun 1, 2006 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Cubbies trade for Nevin?

I was wondering if Hendry trading for Phil Nevin now as opposed to making a move shortly after injury to Derek Lee might suggest that Lee's timetable for a return is not as near as some of my Cub fan friends hope. What do you folks think?

by bgh on Jun 1, 2006 10:12 AM EDT reply actions

no it just shows Hendry's idiocy

with offense...

first Tony Womack now Phil Nevin... but I guess he only traded Hariston so its swapping poor offense for poor offense

by azruavatar on Jun 1, 2006 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Angels extension with Escobar

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2465761

one of the top 5 FA pitchers this coming summer IMO. $$ weren't in the article that I saw. He's prolly off the trade market now too.

by azruavatar on Jun 1, 2006 10:18 AM EDT reply actions

I heard

3 years 28 mill. I wish the cards would give Mulder the same offer right now. That is reasonable and probably cheaper than after the season.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on Jun 1, 2006 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree

lock him up right now before he gets greedy with the BIG $$ from other teams in the offseason.

by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 1, 2006 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Now why on earth,

if you were Mulder, would you agree to a 3-year, $28 million contract?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 1, 2006 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions

I reckon

Mulder will go for north of $10 mm/yr

8/13/79- Lou Brock 3000 hits

by lb3000 on Jun 1, 2006 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Because

Most people are risk averse and 28 mill in the pocket today is better than what he would do if he blew out his arm later this year (God forbid).
Ask Nomar about whether one should consider taking less earlier rather than waiting for free agency. I believe he turned down something like 5/60 mill. How is that working out for him.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on Jun 1, 2006 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Even if the Cards

wanted to lowball him, they'd come in with a hell of lot bigger offer than 3/28. That would just be insulting more than anything. My point is not that your premise is wrong, i.e., that MM might be willing to sign a smaller deal now than he will want 6 months from now. The point is that 3/28 ain't even in the ballpark as a starting point.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 1, 2006 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions

What are the pitching matchups

for the Cubs series? Looks like Ponson is going Friday. I'm hoping I can see Reyes (I live in Chicagoland, so I get all the Cubs games).

by sdrone on Jun 1, 2006 10:19 AM EDT reply actions

Cubs are gonna have, according to BCB

Friday: Marshall
Saturday: Rusch
Sunday: Wood

by sdrone on Jun 1, 2006 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Cardinals are going to have

Fri- Ponson
Sat- Mulder
Sun- Marquis

Looks like Carp's spot comes up when they leave town

by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 1, 2006 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Woot

I get to see Wood on Sunday. I really hope we light his butt up. I just saw Marquis pitch his last game too though.

by DimitroffVodka on Jun 1, 2006 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

well then what's the problem

if you saw Marquis pitch his last game you saw 7 innings of one run baseball where he did a good job keeping us in the game against Oswalt. What's your point?

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Unfortunately

Wood is pitching well. I watched his last outing (Saturday, I think) and he was very good. He hit his spots and changed speeds. Also, he was hitting 95 and 96 mph; I don't remember seeing him go above 94 mph last year.

If you see him throw the slider or whatever it is that comes at the batter then curves across the plate, he's rolling.

by sdrone on Jun 1, 2006 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Magic 8-ball says: "doubtful at best"

Yeah Wood was looking good, which means in 2 more games he'll be back to early season form, and the game after that he will find out he has an infection in his Elbow caused by repetitive motion. He will visit the DL at least two more times this year. But yeah Wood did great last outing.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Bernie

I find the whole "players talk to Bernie in hopes of Bernie stirring public opinion to spur the owners to do something" scenario fascinating. There are so many elements there it's like some sort of political gamesmanship moved to Busch Stadium. I mean, there are so many variables:

Did the players actually talk to Bernie? (surely they did, he wouldn't make that up, or would he?)
Why did Bernie feel the need to report that the players did that? Why not just "stir the pot" as they allegedly requested?
Did the players want Bernie to mention that they did that, or are they now mad that Bernie revealed something they did in confidence?
Why was the press angle used by the players? Why not keep it in house? Have they already tried that approach?
So if Bernie now does "put the pressure on" is he doing so just because he was asked to by the players? Does that dilute his opinion? Is it his own, or is he now a mouthpiece for a portion of the clubhouse?
How much power, if any, does Bernie even have? Do the owners even care what he writes?

Seems like it was a strategic decision on Bernie's part to reveal that the discontent of at least two players was not just observed by Bernie, but actually communicated to him. Very interesting....

by flynn on Jun 1, 2006 10:23 AM EDT reply actions

I believe that

...Bernie was attempting to bolster his already stated feelings by revealing that, in fact, players were now in agreement with his calls for a higher payroll if it improved the team.

His point concerning the fact that the team is built to win now is very accurate. If our goal is to win now, then we need to make that a more feasible one. Especially if Jimmy is out for an extended stretch.

by bgh on Jun 1, 2006 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree with you

I think you are right on with your assessment. I just think he went about revealing it in an unusual way. Usually, a reporter will make some allusion to "grumblings in the clubhouse," or "there's discontent among the players" or something like that. To come right out and say "players asked me if I was going to write about ownership" is something I haven't seen before.

by flynn on Jun 1, 2006 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions

here's the most significant thing

about that exchange, in my mind: the players obviously don't expect edmonds back any time soon.

i absolutely believe miklasz is telling the truth. he has never been accused of playing loose with facts. moreover, his columns about ownership in november, and the attendant discussion on talk shows and the internet, really stung the front office. in their wake, dewitt gave a big interview to the post-dispatch, and jocketty was all over the radio explaining the team's off-season priorities. so i can believe that players would regard miklasz as a guy who can get the owners' attention -- and would go to him with their concerns.

by lboros on Jun 1, 2006 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Absolutely

You are dead on. I'm not really questioning the veracity of the claim or Bernie's influence. I just wanted to throw every variable I could think of in my original post to see if people had ideas on them. The fleshing out of Bernie's influence you just posted was the sort of stuff I was looking for. I am, however, still fascinated that he came right out and said "players asked me if I was going to do this."

Again, I gotta wonder if the players are happy that he revealed that specific action, rather than the aforementioned vague description sportswriters usually use. I'm sure the players wanted their feelings voiced, in the hope that something will happen, but did Bernie reveal too much? Or was that exactly what the players wanted? Hmmmm.......

by flynn on Jun 1, 2006 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions

I have a problem with it...

ethically as a journalist. Bernie's one of the best baseball writers in the country, don't get me wrong, but should he be helping anyone inside the organization push an agenda? No.

If he's going to report on the team, he can't allow anyone inside the organization to influence what he writes.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Jun 1, 2006 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm a journalist too

I see what you're saying. Yet the fact that the players themselves are grumbling about the organization--to the point that they're openly trying to contact members of the press about it--is a story of its own. Players usually only respond to specific questions they're asked, and don't come forward with things like this unless making a press conference. Obviously they don't want to hold a conference on the issue if they're looking to stay anonymous.

Now, if the writer responds with a series of "they told me to write this" articles, I agree. That would be in especially poor taste. But reporting that players are having problems with management? Doesn't bother me a whole lot.

What worries me is how this might effect team morale. If I were Jimmy or one of his friends, I might take this personally, no? I'd hate to see clubhouse relationships suffer because of this.

Should be interesting to watch it all play out.

by effin fisk on Jun 1, 2006 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Bernie is not

helping anyone inside the org push an agenda. He's using their feelings to push his and the fan's agenda, IMO.

by sdrone on Jun 1, 2006 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Which of the Card's Players really even has

The type of credibility to make these comments:
Albert - yes
Rolen - yes
Eckstein - likely, but I doubt he would say anything
Carp and Issy - yes
Beyond these guys I can't imagine anyone else making these types of comments. It can't be the outfielders, that would be like saying we aren't good enough. I can't imagine the 2b or Molina getting in this discussion. Most of the bullpen guys are young.
I guess maybe Supp or Marquis.
Not that it matters, but I thought it interesting to consider who would say that we need a bat.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on Jun 1, 2006 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I wonder if this

also reflects the players' feelings about Enc as well? Interesting.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 1, 2006 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Isn't Bigbie supposed to get decent to good

defensively? Why does TLR keep putting him in left field?

Or is this some secret plan to try to improve Rodriguez' defense?

by sdrone on Jun 1, 2006 10:42 AM EDT reply actions

Outfeild

I hope the Cards don't make another mistake and rush into something like they did with Jaun'Cion.

by Zubin on Jun 1, 2006 10:56 AM EDT reply actions

umm

They actually didn't rush into anything with Juan. They got him very, very late in the game.

to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

by beanocook on Jun 1, 2006 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Trade Possibilities

It seems to be that Walt always surprises us with who he trades for. No one was talking about L. Walker or W. Clark or Mulder. At least that was my impression.
So I have been trying to think of players that people don't expect to be traded. Maybe Helton? He did play some outfield when he first came up, but he has struggled the last two years a bit. If Walt is going to trade Reyes or Wainwright I would think he would only do so for someone who is under contract for more than one year. No one else really comes to mind, but I would think it would be for someone we are not expecting.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on Jun 1, 2006 11:29 AM EDT reply actions

I guess I don't understand.....

why if power pitching is a "must have" why is wainright in the bullpen? don't get me wrong I think he has been awesome in that roll, but it seems a waist to use him for one inning at at time. I say trade mulder for Abreu, work out a deal for schmidt(using reyes if necessary), and bumb wainright into the rotation. I was at the game yesterday and watched him make the Houston hitters look ridiculous. His low-mid 90 fastball and his curveball are as good or better than anyone you will trade for.

"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Jun 1, 2006 11:40 AM EDT reply actions

well

He wouldn't be throwing in the mid 90's as a starter and the curve wouldn't be the same.

The dude can "gas" it for 20-25 pitches out of the pen. Its a totally different animal starting a game. You aren't going to throw with the same velocity as a starter as you do out of the pen. Plus, guys see you 2-3 times through a lineup..not just once.

to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

by beanocook on Jun 1, 2006 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Additionally

...having a shutdown 'pen for the seventh/eighth/ninth is another big component of postseason success as evidenced by the NY dynasty and the Angels.

Ideally, we could add a strikeout pitcher and maintain a bullpen that can hold (which has been a problem in inherited runner situations) the other team down for the final three or so innings.

by bgh on Jun 1, 2006 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Game shortening

You are correct about the value of a shut-dwon 'pen in October. The Angels in 2002 is perhpas the most vivid recent example. Those guys were phenomenal.

A Looper-Wainwright-Izzy chain to end postseason games sounds awfully promising. One thing, though, will Wainwright be ready for back-to-back games by then? Right now he needs a day or two between appearances.

by flynn on Jun 1, 2006 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions

i would agree...

that his fastball may not be quite the same but i don't see him dropping below 92 or so for six innings. I also don't see why his curveball would be different. I just don't know why you bring in someone else without giving him a shot. If you are going to trade him, a team may want to see him start a game before they give up somebody for him.

"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Jun 1, 2006 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions

training too

a pitcher needs to work up the endurance to start on a regular basis, which requires training. It often doesn't work to take a guy out of the pen and have him consistently in the rotation all of a sudden. Maybe for a short, spot start followed by plenty of rest, but my understanding is you can't just flip a switch and go from relieving to starting.

8/13/79- Lou Brock 3000 hits

by lb3000 on Jun 1, 2006 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Ease off a little bit...

Come on you guys, the cards have played a sound 1st Q. 15 games over 500... Edmonds may be on the way out, but let's look at the accomplishments... I agree Marquis is not a long term pitcher with this club - trade him and get it done. Same for JuanE - he gets a lot of those slash swings HRs. Somebody in the league wants that sort of player. Not us Cards of course - why did we ever acquire him? But I digress. The most important issue is whether or not Carp is OK. Why do I read on this site endlessly about not talking about this. Bursitis is not a joke - sometimes it just doesn't go away - especially if you are testing your arm with Cy Young pitching...

by klcard on Jun 1, 2006 11:47 AM EDT reply actions

There has been some insightful...

discussion on the subject posted, but I think that right now, we are taking the wait and see approach, much like the club.

by bgh on Jun 1, 2006 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

plus all the signs

have been pretty encouraging; carp has already thrown off a mound without pain and will likely miss no more than one more start.

edmonds could be out for weeks, months, the whole year. bigger problem.

by lboros on Jun 1, 2006 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Additionally

I heard Carp quoted yesterday as saying that had this injury/discomfort occurred during a Sept. pennant run or the playoffs, he would have pitched his regular turn.

by sdesserman on Jun 1, 2006 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions

trade possibilities

right now Mulder is probably our most marketable commodity. In fact, if we look into the possibility of trading him, he'll probably be the biggest name SP on the market (unless the A's decide to trade Zito). I just don't see the Giants trading Schmidt (though I'd love to have him).

A couple of years ago, the year we traded for Walker, there was a lot of talk about us needing a pitcher and it seems as though Walt decided to trade for a bat b/c Walker would help the team more than the best pitcher we could trade for could. In other words, we won't have the prospects to get Willis and the Giants will probably stay in it out west so they won't trade Schmidt. Therefore, this year it seems our best option will be to trade Mulder for a big bat. Reyes steps into the rotation and Ponson now gets playoff starts. Does the rotation go backward? Yes, a little. But the impact bat should more than make up for it.

The bottom line is I don't see us getting the pitcher we need to push us over the top but we do have a chip that can get us the hitter we need. We should use it.

BTW, great article Bernie!

by chuckb on Jun 1, 2006 12:24 PM EDT reply actions

Great Point

In an ideal world, we could acquire players to put us over the top for both the OF and the rotation. Walt will probably do what he always does and that is find the best value for either need.

Our real OF problem is the lack of ABs for Rodriguez, who has performed extremely well in the #2 hole. He gets on-base, is cheap, and creates the right/left/right lineup characteristic that so many managers, and especially LaRussa, covet. Encarnacion is blocking Rodriguez and Rodriguez will rarely play if we acquire a power-hitting LF. This bad signing is hurting us more than in terms of Juanny's individual production at the bat.

Is there a provision about how long a club must wait to trade a player after they sign him as a free agent?

by bgh on Jun 1, 2006 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Amen!

Thanks for keeping the focus on real, not imagined, problems.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 1, 2006 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions

List of Overpaid Players

I really think the only way we can get a good bat is by picking up a big tab of a contract. We can't sell the farm.

Here is my list of overpaid OFer's

Bobby Abreu 06:$13M, 07:$15M, 08:$16M club option ($2M buyout)
.273/.446/.509/.956

Pat Burrell 06:$9.5M, 07:$13M, 08:$14M
.277/.398/.548/.946

Torii Hunter 06:$10.75M,
07:$12M club option ($2M buyout)
.269/.330/.447/.777

Luis Gonzalez 06:$11.5M
.271/.365/.452/.817

Shawn Green 06:$8M, 07:$9.5M, 08:$10M mutual option ($2M buyout)
.330/.385/.456/.841

Alfonso Soriano 06:$10M
.297/.347/.603/.950

Ken Griffey Jr.00-08:$12.5M/year, 09:$16.5M club option ($4M buyout)
.255/.300/.491/.791

Darin Erstad 06:$8.5M
.238/.279/.350/.629

Geoff Jenkins 06:$7.5M, 07:$7M, 08:$9M club option ($0.5M buyout)
.261/.326/.430/.756

Woo too much work

by DimitroffVodka on Jun 1, 2006 12:40 PM EDT reply actions

But such good work

And it certainly is thought-provoking. Now, which of those teams needs pitching and has an OF surplus or up-and-coming OF prospects that are being blocked?

D-Backs. I think Shawn Green may be our pick-up.

DimitroffVodka, can you do a list of overpaid starting power pitchers for us?

by bgh on Jun 1, 2006 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Shawn Green?

So we would give up what for Shawn Green. If it's anything larger than a bag of taffy to pick up that ridiculous contract, you really aren't thinking straight. The guy also has a no trade clause in his contract unless it is to an LA or SD team. He won't come East. The best shot at a cheap upgrade in the outfield (if they could dump Encarnacion) would be Eric Byrnes.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Byrnes

At least with Byrnes you know you'll get a buttload of Energy. He plays like an Eckstein, all energy and an instant fan favorite. Great for the clubhouse and plays in the field with an Edmonds-like mentality (not saying ability, just mentality), although he doesn't get injured like Edmonds.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

clubhouse

How do we know Eric Byrnes is good in the clubhouse? He's on his fourth team in the last six months or so.

Hes not much different than Encarnacion.

to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

by beanocook on Jun 1, 2006 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions

got a ?

would you rather win the Series or not make the playoff's.If you had to choice.

by sportsmanspark78 on Jun 1, 2006 12:57 PM EDT reply actions

Kevin Mench

I think the guy with the biggest head in the majors is probably also on the radar. Texas is in the middle of the race out there in the AL West and is always looking for pitching. Marquis for Mench would be an ok trade... thou I think we might be able to get a little more mileage out of Marquis. That being said I still think that Luis Gonzalez is the best option available to us since he is a free agent after this year. Unlike Green we wouldn't have to assume his contract for a few more years handcuffing is in the FA market this off season (remember we do have 4 FA SP).

by BigMac545 on Jun 1, 2006 1:02 PM EDT reply actions

I like the idea if

we could also get rid of Juan somehow, but isn't Texas 4 games up in a division that they don't need to improve to win? I don't seem them thinking that Marquis will be a difference maker for them in the playoffs.

by sdrone on Jun 1, 2006 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Gonzalez is a no

I've said this a lot to people who obviously don't follow D-backs baseball, but Gonzo is not worth half of what he's being paid, but the idjuts here in AZ see him as a fan favorite and would be mad if he wasn't resigned. That said, we'd have to pay him an inordinate amount to get him to move, and when he got here you'd realize he's not the 57 HR guy of a few years ago. He's the lucky to hit 20 HR guy who can't hit over .300 anymore. Oh by the way, his defense makes Encarnacion look like a gold glover, and I hope Eckstein doesn't mind going into deep left to cut off the ball.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 1:14 PM EDT reply actions

Good Point

I forgot how bad Gonzo's shoulder is. I am scratching him off my mental list.

I truthfully don't see really good options out there.

Until we know how long Jimmy is going to be out this is all moot.

AZ needs bullpen help and backend of the rotation guy.

by DimitroffVodka on Jun 1, 2006 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions

You're right about AZ's needs

But I'd rather see them try to get one of AZ's younger players like Quentin or Conor Jackson and convert them to outfield. It would be better than going after the old guys with less than a year or two of even decent bat left in them.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions

the young guys

aren't going anywhere. arizona won't trade them.

by lboros on Jun 1, 2006 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions

az young OF

the only reason i can think of for az to trade any young OF's is the sheer amount of them they have.

Carlos Gonzalez
Carlos Quentin
Chris Young
Justin Upton

four OF's for three spots. i think it comes down to whether they are in buy or sell mode come july. if they are in buy mode, they likely trade one of their OF prospects to fill a need, if they are in sell they might be willing to package one of them in order to unload a big contract.

Of course theres always Tampa.

by CougarCard on Jun 1, 2006 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions

I thought

Justin Upton was a shortstop, like his big bro B.J. It's interesting, though, that you brought his name up, given that the DBaxx have another intriguing SS prospect in Stephen "Don't Hate Me Because J.D.'s My Brother" Drew.

I guess Upton the Younger still is at least a couple of years away.

The 26th Man

by 26thMan on Jun 1, 2006 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Actually

I'm fairly certain the DBacks named Drew their SS of the future and are condition Upton for a role in CF.

by CougarCard on Jun 2, 2006 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions

luis gonzalez

would help. he'd play left, en'cion would move to center, and the current left-field group would shift to right field.

gonzalez has always had oustanding on-base skills, and those are undiminished by age. his power has diminished, but he still has some pop -- 17 doubles and 5 dingers this season. he's a perfect fit for the personality of the team, and because of his age and contract status he probably would not be prohibitively costly in terms of talent --- maybe marquis or suppan, plus a prospect or a brad thompson type, would fetch him.

all of this assumes he's available. if he is, and can be had on reasonable terms, the cards would be crazy not to give it serious consideration.

by lboros on Jun 1, 2006 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions

I have to disagree

He's still not recovered from his shoulder, and his numbers are off even his normal numbers (take out 2001 as an abherence). He's fallen off so bad they finally realized he's not a write in #3 hole hitter anymore. His durability is very questionable because he'll miss a week if he has to dive or slide to catch a ball. Given his status as fan favorite in AZ, it would take a lot to lure him away and he would be cost prohibitive. AZ will give him a slide the rest of his career because he got the hit that brought in the championship. However, he will not thrive if he has to deal with actual expectations.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions

no, actually

his numbers are right in line with his normal numbers. his career obp is .369; this year it's .365. his career slugging avg is .486; this year it's off slightly, at .452.

as a short-term solution to a short-term problem, he'd do just fine. if you are looking for a long-term solution . . . . explain to me how the cardinals are going to pry a young, affordable, talented player away from another team. who exactly are we going to give up to acquire a player of that type.

by lboros on Jun 1, 2006 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions

agreed

We have to be reasonable here. No one is going to trade a good, YOUNG, outfielder. Why would they?

We are looking at a Larry Walker, Phil Nevin type guy. I wouldn't mind Luis Gonzalez. I would MAYBE consider Geoff Jenkins. If the Brewers want to keep Carlos Lee they will have to move Jenkins. The Crew needs pitching help in the worst way.

Marquis for Jenkins??

to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

by beanocook on Jun 1, 2006 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Jason Schmidt

Jason Schmidt is the only "power pitcher" on the market worth going after. He makes 10mil in 06 and FA in 07'.

He is having a pretty good year by numbers so far.

K/9 6.86, K/BB 2.44, 1.03 WHIP, 2.7 ERA, 80.0 IP

by DimitroffVodka on Jun 1, 2006 1:52 PM EDT reply actions

your arguement hurts itself

you mention Schmidt's salary and free agent status, but that hurts your argument. The fact that he's a free agent makes it worse for the Cards. If he came over and pitched well for half a season it would be impossible to sign him at a reasonable price.

Never since the days of shoeless Joe Jackson have I ever seen such a great shoeless athlete...

by robdouth on Jun 1, 2006 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Worse or better?

I don't think you can say his FA status makes him any less desireable. If anything, the fact that a team knows it only has him guaranteed for the rest of the year drives the price of talent required to get him down. Half a year of Jason Schmidt may cost you one major legauer and one good prospect. A year and a half of Schmidt would cost you say, one major leaguer and three prospects. (I have no idea, really, what he would cost, but for argument's sake....)

by flynn on Jun 1, 2006 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Mulder for Abreu looks good to me

I just don't see Mulder re-signing with St. Louis, because other teams will probably offer him more than he's worth. Thus, if we can deal him for a somewhat older Abreu (doesn't his contract run through 2007?) then I'm all for it. Of course that means that we'll have to find another top-of-the-rotation guy, but be honest: hasn't Mulder's worse than expected pitching been the main reason we thought we needed another one anyhow?

If Mulder can be re-signed at a decent price by offering him early, then I have no problem with that either, but I'd rather trade him for Abreu, who I think would be an excellent fit in St. Louis, then be forced to get into a bidding war with other teams later, which we'll probably lose.

by rob is back on Jun 1, 2006 2:22 PM EDT reply actions

agreed.....

I don't think Mulder will be back unless he signs an extension right away. One of the New York teams will be able to offer him much more than the Cards and probably much more than he is worth.

"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Jun 1, 2006 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Mulder, maybe not

I think we should remember that trading a big name FA to be is what selling teams do, which the cards are not. I think we should keep our eye on Soriano from the Nats, for example.

by jimstllax on Jun 1, 2006 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Veteran Bat

I haven't studied it, but it seems like Jock's pattern in terms of in-season acquistions tends toward the veteran hitter a la McGwire, Walker and Clark and not a big-name pitcher. It also seems like it's frequently someone we don't expect or covet, and that we've rarely giving up essential players or prospects.

Just food for thought.

by sdesserman on Jun 1, 2006 2:53 PM EDT reply actions

Good point!

As for the veteran hitter, I just hope that doesn't mean he's looking at Barry Bonds... ;-)

Seriously, though, I do hope it's someone who can still walk without a cane.

by rob is back on Jun 1, 2006 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions

he did bring in chuck finley

after DK died, but that was to say the least a special set of circumstances . . . . walter also picked up woody williams in august 2001, at a time when the cards looked like they were toast. their pitching rotation at the time was morris, kile, dusty hermanson, rookie bud smith, and mike mathews . . . . ie, a lot less stability than what they have today.

i'd still love to see a big-time pitcher come in here, but you're right, it doesn't fit the pattern. it would probably cost jock'ty all his near-term prospects (reyes wainwright and then some) -- ie, an all-or-nothing move.

but maybe young reyes and/or mr wainwright have what we need, at least in the short term . . . . if bud smith can be a key element of a playoff rotation for a year, i don't see why reyes or wainie couldn't.

by lboros on Jun 1, 2006 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

LB,

tell me if this makes no sense, but I had a thought last night. As long as we have a decent division lead, would it be a good idea to keep Reyes in Memphis so we don't let hitters get too many looks at him?

You know the old "the league is catching up to him after one trip through" school of thought.

I was reminded of guys like F-Rod in 2002 and Bobby Jenks last year who came from nowhere to success in October. Granted, Reyes doesn't have their heat... but could surprise some teams.

by Matt @ Viva El Birdos on Jun 1, 2006 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions

there's a case for what you're proposing

but i'd still rather have him in the bigs. if he's in the stl rotation, then jocketty can convert one of the other pitchers into help for the offense --- better allocation of resources. as long as reyes stays at memphis, he's wasted capacity.

also, what you're describing cuts both ways. if the cards hide reyes in the minors, rival hitters don't get to see him --- but he doesn't get to see them, try out his weapons and see what works, what doesn't, in given situations. i'd rather have him up here mastering the use of his tools; it looks like he has enough diff'nt pitches, and enough command of them, to counteradjust to whatever adjustments the hitters make his 2d and 3d times through the league.

by lboros on Jun 1, 2006 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions

After Looking

at the Brewers blog today, it seems they are discussing the possibilty of dumping players at the ASB. If the Brewers keep playing like they have been, some of their players might be available sooner rather than later for the Cards to pick-up, if Mr. Jockety is so inclined...

I'm looking forward to see how my miserable Cubs measure up to a diluted Cardinals squad. Enjoy the games, Cubs/Cards always seems to be competitive...

A Cubs fan just visiting

by brianp88 on Jun 1, 2006 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions

And don't forget..

Mike DeJean
Sterling Hitchcock
Jamey Wright

Well, OK, forget them. But if Wright could have pitched for us the way he has been recently for SF.....

by flynn on Jun 1, 2006 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Eck's Hand

If there's been any news on this, I've missed it. Do we know yet if Eckstein's hand is OK?

by calico30 on Jun 1, 2006 3:17 PM EDT reply actions

PD says

x-rays were negative (or positive for Cards fans). Eck says the ball hit him on the strap of the batting glove... which absorbed some of the force.

He said with the day off he should be back in the lineup Friday.

by Matt @ Viva El Birdos on Jun 1, 2006 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks!

by calico30 on Jun 1, 2006 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions

I think for now

I think we need to do a final evualtion on the team

I think J-Rod has to get all the at-bats against righties and Spezio taking all the left. Here is some of their numbers

Spiezio vs Left - .421/.476/.579/1.055 in 19 AB

J - Rod vs Right - .349/.396/.442/.838 in 86 AB

The real thing is that both of them completly shine in Runners in Scoring Position

Spiezio w/ RISP - .370/.471/.556/1.026 in 27 AB

J- Rod w/ RISP - .381/.375/.571/.946 in 21 Ab
(hmm how can his OBP be lower than his Avg)

This is where it gets bad.

Juan E w/ RISP - .189/.224/.377/.601 in 53 AB's

He has the most AB's with RISP and he absoultely pathetic. LF is not the problem. Juan E is the problem.

by DimitroffVodka on Jun 1, 2006 3:37 PM EDT reply actions

JuanE's RISP is a big problem

I agree and that's why I posted a diary last night about switching JuanE and Molina, although I finally settled on dropping Molina to 6th in the order in front of JuanE. Despite Molina's poor BA, it's pretty decent with RISP (.303) and it was even better last year.

by rob is back on Jun 1, 2006 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions

I love this site

100 comments on an off day. Great stuff, lb.

by cyclone on Jun 1, 2006 4:06 PM EDT reply actions

Lot's of interesting comments as well!

n/t

by rob is back on Jun 1, 2006 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions

kudos lb

the site keeps getting better.

8/13/79- Lou Brock 3000 hits

by lb3000 on Jun 1, 2006 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions

thanks fellows

by lboros on Jun 1, 2006 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Want to say Props

Yeah deffinetly want to say Props to you LB. This is my only source of Cardinal Info (online) anymore. You put out great reading info every day and attracted a community of non-homers. Everyone seems very baseball intelligent and have a good understanding of the game.

by DimitroffVodka on Jun 1, 2006 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions

But still please pretty please

a red VEB t shirt! heh.

by sdrone on Jun 1, 2006 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Minor League A Game

I was at the Quad Cities game which LB spoke of regarding Jamie Garcia. I agree, he is definetly and up and comer. I also liked what I saw from Trey Hearne who started game 2. 3.86 ERA over 28 innings so far, not that great statistically, but last night threw four innings, 3 hits, no ER.
Who impressed me the most was Colby Rasmus. Batting .310 so far, great natural swing. He got caught in a run down at one point, where most guys would have just let themselves be tagged, he made Beloit chase him down with 5 or 6 throws back and forth and almost beat it out. Hustle like that at 19 shows a lot of character. I think he'll be someone to definetly watch.

Freezing in Wisconsin.

by WiscCard on Jun 1, 2006 4:27 PM EDT reply actions