Who can we trade: Duncan or Encarnacion

by redbirdnation on Dec 3, 2006 9:28 PM EST

As many diaries have talked about potential trades for a pitcher, the question has been who do we trade, Duncan or Encarnacion? Here what it looks like to me....
If we were to trade Encarnacion, we would need an OF in return who is a righty. Although no one really likes Encarnacion, he is truly valuable to our team. Lets look at what he can do for us

For starters he is a righty. There are really know good righty FA availible any more, and most of us are affraid of having an OF consisting of three lefties, especially with Edmonds and Duncs ability to hit lefty pitchers. So from that angle it would seem unwise to trade Enc, unless it was a package deal where we get another righty OF in return. However he would inevitably have to be worse if we plan on getting a SP worth a damn.
He provides us with many options in the OF. If Edmonds is ever in need of a day off, or we dont want him in the lineup against a tough lefty, we can put Enc at CF. He provides us with an extremely versitile outfielder. His fielding is also above average, and as we saw when Edmonds was out is not a terrible CF. Our only option in CF would be Schumacher, and he is a lefty as well.

But then again he is not really a fan favorite, and by trading him we could free up some cap space to potentially sign schmidt or another top tier FA

If we were to trade Duncan, we would probably sign gonzo. However, I dont want to trade Dunc unless we are receiving a top tier pitcher, where we package up a couple prospects. He has a very bright hitting future, but he has no place on our team until he learns how to catch the ball without falling down. I would love to see him in our future, but he does have two areas of concern: fielding and hitting lefties. While both of these our very correctable problems, they will hurt us short term. I do not like the idea of having to platoon, because we have three left handed hitting OF. Yes we can get alot in return for him, but I think he still deserves another chance.

The bottom line is management has a tough decision to make if they chose to trade for a SP. I would much rather prefer dealing Encarnacion, but we would have to get another righty OF in return. Dealing Duncan would be hard, but we could get alot in return for him if we gave away a couple prospects. I would love to trade Encarnacion and Rincon(Rockies need a lefty relief pitcher) for jennings and one of Colorado's many young OF. I think it would be a great deal for us, because we could then platoon that OF and Duncan while we are teaching Duncan the position and how to hit lefties.

Go Get em Walt. Bring us back some talent

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Comments

how about we dont trade either of them

because they are completely competant outfielders. Yes, we do have 2 holes at starting pitching, but we also have 20 million dollars left to spend before the 100 million dollar cap. I really hope we dont get Jason Schmidt, because if we do, we will overpay a pitcher who is 34 and has been slowly declining for 2 years now. I would rather spend ten mil. on two pretty good guys than spend 14-15 on a guy who's 34 and his effectiveness has been based on a mid 90's fast ball that's now a high 80's fastball.
I'm not saying Schmidt won't be good, because he will. I'm saying I dont want an albatross contract in a year or two.

Meche.

by Dttl89 on Dec 3, 2006 10:10 PM EST reply actions

Competent?

I guess you didn't watch any of the playoffs. He dropped 3 fly balls, and his arm isn't even impressive.

And while JuanE is athletic, he often runs terrible routes on balls hit to the corner and shows a lack of effort out there.

Again, maybe your definition of competent is a fielding percentage of about .92 and hands like cinder blocks, but you can't have that from an everyday player.

by DuncanDipper on Dec 3, 2006 11:04 PM EST up reply actions

outfield

if we traded encar we wouldnt need to get an outfielder in return. we would sign gonzo and someone with a platoon split to play against lefties. options include preston wilson, jose cruz jr., and craig wilson. they dont have great overall numbers but are serviceable against lefties.

encar had .316/.346/.492 line vs. lefties last year.
craig wilson has a .296/.395/.480 career line vs. lefties.
cruz jr. has a .280/.363/.471 career line vs. lefties.
preston wilson was .292/.362/.496 vs. lefties last year.

in addition you have the added advantage of having someone like gonzo who should best encar's .261/.303/.421 line vs. righties last year.

the lineup vs. righties would be dunc/edmonds/gonzo.

edmonds was terrible vs. lefties last year but historically hasnt been that bad. if he plays a little bit more like his career numbers he should still get a fair amount of starts vs. lefties. then you mix in speez, taguchi, & the mystery man.

if walt can use encar to get something useful he should definitely look into it.

by dmb60614 on Dec 3, 2006 11:04 PM EST reply actions

Maybe we dont need an OF in return

I just think it would nice to get a good fielder in return, because as Duncan is learning the position he will get better. If we have faith in him he can go no where but up in regards to his defense. I think if we can get a right hander with average hitting skills, but good defender (i.e so or wilson imo)we will be fine next year. While Duncan will never be an above average fielder, I think if we give him time to learn the position he will be ok. If we keep him he will be a league average fielder by the beginning of 08'. This is why I dont think we should trade him, because all of his flaws are correctable. Getting him to hit lefties will be hard, but he will be a fine fielder in a year if we are willing to be patient.

by redbirdnation on Dec 3, 2006 11:28 PM EST up reply actions

juancar is an okay player.

He might not look hustle-y enough, and god forbid he didn't go to the parade, but pretty much every play-by-play defensive system there is has him as a well-above average right fielder. combine that with iffy offense, and you have a pretty competent player, however unspectacular he is.

In a market where worse players (hey Gary Matthews, Jr.) are making $50 million, he is extremely valuable. The Cardinals shouldn't part with him unless they're bowled over by a deal.

by DanUpBaby on Dec 4, 2006 3:13 AM EST reply actions

chemistry

You arent taking team chemistry into account. I'm sure a bunch of players aren't happy with him not showing up for good reason. Not to mention he's probably upset with TLR and the organization for essentially benching him in the playoffs.

by drw13 on Dec 4, 2006 3:21 AM EST up reply actions

you really think Edmonds, Rolen, Carpenter

et al are mad at Juan because he didn't show up to a parade of all things??? This isn't like he's not showing up to games or leaving early like Sosa. It's a parade for goodness sake.

Also, Juan had been dealing with a wrist injury towards the end of the season and was struggling in the playoffs. Personally, I don't see Juan as a particularly pouty player. He seems to just go about his job everyday in the league-average way he does.

A lot gets made out of team chemistry but the Cardinals won the World Series so I'm skeptical that there is THAT much bad blood between the players or TLR.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Dec 4, 2006 3:43 AM EST up reply actions

ITS ABOUT TIME

someone agrees with me trade juan e. he is a average player at best. we are not talking about about trade rolen or eck. it is just juan e. he is a ok outfielder and a good hitter in games that dont matter. when the game is on the line he strikesout then says he has a injuried wrist. as far as the parade that really is not that important maybe he had something to take care of at home.

trade juan

i will be praying they do.

all they need is a decent outfielder to platton with duncan in rf. somebody low cost.

hopefully they will sign gonzo.

i agree that they will have to overpay for schmidt but they need him. in my opinion it is better to give schmidt 13-14 a year than to give suppan 10. then maybe weaver will sign for 7-8 and with
carp
schmidt
weaver
reyes
wells

eck
gonzo
pujols
edmonds
rolen
duncan/rh platoon
molina
a.k.

spezio supersub

that would be a very good team and most likley good enough to get back to the playoffs. they can also move loop if they have to

SWH

by BRINGBACKWILSON on Dec 4, 2006 4:50 AM EST reply actions

Platooning Gonzo and Duncan makes no sense

they have the same split.

and once again, why don't you have a reason for wanting to dump him?

by Valatan on Dec 4, 2006 5:18 AM EST up reply actions

the problem is

"someone agrees with me trade juan e. he is a average player at best. we are not talking about about trade rolen or eck."

in terms of player evaluation, eckstein is about as average a shortstop as they come, both defensively and offensively. Encarnacion isn't a world beater but I think that he is more of an above average RF than Eck is relative to SS. Defensively it's harder since SS is a more demanding position. Still the point holds that eckstein isn't some world beater either as you make him out to be.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Dec 4, 2006 9:39 AM EST up reply actions