In a Trade Situation

I completely agree

If we seriously want Schmidt, which I think every Cardinal fan would enjoy seing him in red, we have to make a trade to clear up cap. This of course means that we can't sign Weaver. He will be far to pricey to get especially with Boras as his agent. But if we make this trade, lets say Enc and Rincon for Jennings, that would clear up roughly 3 mil. This would give us about 20 mil remaining to reach that 100 million dollar payroll. With the remaining money we can for sure get schmidt, and then with the left over money sign Gonzo. Move Dunc to right where he is said to be more comfortable and have gonzo play left

1.Carp
2.Schmidt
3.Jennings
4.Wells
5.Reyes

Then in our lineup you just replace gonzo with enc. These would be great moves, because we do not lose out in any moves. We dont need Rincon with the emergence of flores and johnson, and I would take gonzo over enc for 2 more years any day. Jennings is younger than Weaver, and has a lot of potential, but then again so does Weave under Dunc

by redbirdnation on Dec 3, 2006 10:49 AM EST reply actions

matchup problem

that is a nice idea, but my concern is having Gonzo/Edmonds/Dunc in the OF. It's ok if you need to platoon a guy vs LHP but how do you manage when all 3 can be exposed against lefty starters? Gonzo is not the answer unless we keep Encarnacion and move Duncan.

I vote for dealing Duncan/Narvie/Flores to PITT for Maholm/Gonzalez and then signing Gonzo and Schmidt.

Carp
Schmidt
Reyes
Wells
Maholm / Wainer

Ecstein
Gonzalez
Pujols
Rolen
Edmonds
Encarnacion
Kennedy
Molina

Plus you have a pretty strong pen with Izzy/Wainer/Gonzo/Kinney/Johnson/Looper

Bring Back Drew!!!

by TheFranchise9 on Dec 3, 2006 12:57 PM EST reply actions

Gonzo

In the bullpen?

by Tarheel85 on Dec 3, 2006 12:59 PM EST up reply actions

MIKE Gonzalez

see the whole Dunc/Narvie/Flores for Maholm/MIKE Gonzalez trade...

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Dec 3, 2006 1:00 PM EST up reply actions

plus...

I forgot to mention that by keeping Encarnacion and dealing Duncan you improve depth, balance and defense. Encarnacion - as much as i don't like him - can play some CF when Jimmy needs some time off, which is going to happen more and more over these next two seasons.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Dec 3, 2006 12:59 PM EST up reply actions

I actually kinda like that trade

but I'm not sure I see club's swapping LH relievers like that. Seems a little redundant.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Dec 3, 2006 1:10 PM EST up reply actions

Only Problem with Dunc

Is that he wouldn't have much value in Colorado's eyes because they already have their first baseman, todd helton, and are content with him. Sure, he's on the decline, but currently I'd see the Rox being more into an Enc and a lefty deal then I'd see Dunc on the move. The post-dispatch also says the cards are shopping Enc, no word on Dunc.

I'm a Jenius!

by gibbons on Dec 3, 2006 1:21 PM EST reply actions

I honestly don't understand

why they really want to move jennings at all--Moving Helton to a contender would seem to make a lot more sense, really--it dumps more salaray, and would get better players back in return.

by Valatan on Dec 3, 2006 2:09 PM EST up reply actions

Not Sure

Perhaps the younger talent aspect, also the pitching market is rather thin this offseason. Todd Helton is getting older and is not the power threat he once was. Larry, who lives in Colorado could possibly have more insight.

I'm a Jenius!

by gibbons on Dec 3, 2006 5:11 PM EST up reply actions

Well

Jennings is not exactly old. He is only 28. The reason that Colorado wants to move him next year is because he is an FA, and they wont be able to resign him. They want something in return before they lose him to the FA market

by redbirdnation on Dec 3, 2006 5:26 PM EST up reply actions

Isn't Helton like face of the franchise

honestly the Rockies have been creeping closer to contention every year and Helton isn't totally dead weight or the Coors masher he once was. A few more tweeks to their roster (landing a good CF would be a good start) and they could contend in the West - but I still like the Padres with Peavy & Young at the top.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Dec 3, 2006 6:55 PM EST up reply actions

trade juan e

why are people defending this guy. trade him!sign gonzo. yeah then your 3 outfielders are left handed hitters. so you do have options you have spez, marrero,or you can bring back so,or preston wilson,and also there are alot of right handed hitting outfielders you could get to play part time and get cheap.

trade juan e

i think i might even get a t shirts made that says please trade juan e

SWH

by BRINGBACKWILSON on Dec 3, 2006 4:46 PM EST reply actions

um, no

so a playoff matchup against a strong lefty pitcher and you want half of your lineup to be made of Spiezio, Taguchi, P-Dub and Molina??? ... hmmm.

Course it sure worked this year didn't it?

So what do I know?

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Dec 3, 2006 5:16 PM EST up reply actions

btw...

I am NOT defending Juan E. I can't stand the site of that guy in a Cardinal uni, I'm just saying it might be a better move for the team to deal Duncan and stomach another year or so of Lemoncion.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Dec 3, 2006 5:18 PM EST up reply actions

Enc

"why are people defending this guy. trade him!"

People are defending him because the hatred toward him is relatively irrational. He has played for league average offense and above average defense for a relatively low salary. No one expected him to outperform Pujols, and he hasn't, but that really isn't much of a reason to constantly jump all over him.

He is the one player in the outfield last year that didn't have extreme lefty/righty splits and exhibited a reasonable amount of durability.

he is a better everyday player than Spezio, taguchi, wilson or marrero.

he is hardly an untreadable commodity to this team, but his salary is hardly a team-crushing albatross, either in terms of performance or amount. This isn't the damn Tino signing, and it gets annoying seeing people treat it like it is.

by Valatan on Dec 3, 2006 6:02 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

Several times this year I heard various people saying "If Enc is your #3 homerun hitter, something must be wrong." or statements to that effect. This really bothers me and doesn't make sense. They either complain that he doesn't produce any offense/defense or they think that something is wrong with the rest of the offense/defense. Do people want him to do well or not? I can somewhat understand if he had 3 homeruns and was third on the team but he had a fair number and people were putting him down. That's like saying, if the 2005 MVP of the National League used to play baseball in the Dominican Republic with a milk carton for a glove, then it was a bad year in the NL. You have to give credit where credit is due.

Also Valatan, if you have any insight, should Marrero make the cut in spring training, where would we put him? Obviously the bench but we have our back-up catcher and I hear he wants to play cather so I guess in that respect he's an emergency catcher, similar to what Mabry was, but I thought thats who we got spezio to replace. Does Marrero really have a spot? And if so, does that mean we aren't planning on resigning So? (That's alot of questions, I know, but it'll give you something to do ;)

I'm a Jenius!

by gibbons on Dec 3, 2006 8:55 PM EST up reply actions

Supposedly So is coming back

Marrero is signed to a minor league contract, so I guess he's going to have to fight it out to make the ML roster. I would assume, if he makes it, he takes John Rodriguez's spot as an OF sub. He'd at least be nice to use against lefties with all of the LH OFers we have.

He'd also be nice as an emergency catcher, so we wouldn't have to see so much of Yadi batting for himself in a close game with the cards down in the ninth, but I can't see Tony using him like that (I don't think Marrero has caught a game in two or so years). Adding Gonzo would just make it all the more necessary to have a decent RH OF bat off of the bench, though.

by Valatan on Dec 3, 2006 10:44 PM EST up reply actions

trade juan e

why are people defending this guy. trade him!sign gonzo. yeah then your 3 outfielders are left handed hitters. so you do have options you have spez, marrero,or you can bring back so,or preston wilson,and also there are alot of right handed hitting outfielders you could get to play part time and get cheap.

trade juan e

i think i might even get a t shirts made that says please trade juan e

SWH

by BRINGBACKWILSON on Dec 3, 2006 4:47 PM EST reply actions

If you sign gonzo and trade Enc..

As you said, you have 3 left handed hitting starting outfielders which leaves you to either sign another righty outfielder, resign So, platoon Wilson and either gonzo or duncan, or platoon So/gonzo/dunc/wilson.

When all is said and done, I think you're stronger with Gonzo -- Edmonds -- Enc.

I'm a Jenius!

by gibbons on Dec 3, 2006 5:19 PM EST up reply actions

sorry

sorry about the double post

SWH

by BRINGBACKWILSON on Dec 3, 2006 4:48 PM EST reply actions

I doubt

This has any credibility what-so-ever, but for what it's worth, someone seems to think that the cards and rox are talking about a Hawpe & Jennings trade. See this thread: http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=423484

Once again, probably no credibility but I like the idea, Hawpe is young and solves the outfield "problem".

I'm a Jenius!

by gibbons on Dec 3, 2006 5:24 PM EST reply actions

DID ANYBODY WHAT THIS YEARS PLAYOFFS

TO FRANCHISE9

VS LEFTIES
THE CAN USE EDMONDS IN CF JUST LIKE 06

IF THEY GET GONZO HE CAN HIT LEFTIES PRETTY GOOD

THEN USE SPEZIO ,DUNCAN, WILSON WHOEVER IS HITTING THE BEST OR WHOEVER TONY FEELS IS THE BEST MATCHUP

SWH

by BRINGBACKWILSON on Dec 3, 2006 6:54 PM EST reply actions

check the #'s

If we had Gonzo/Edmonds/Duncan, not only would it be painful to watch, but against lefties you'd have OPS's of .740, .439 and .539 against LHP from 3 of your best power sticks.

Again, I say it'd be better to deal Duncan and keep Encarnacion.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Dec 3, 2006 8:46 PM EST up reply actions

Walt will have to think very hard about a trade

There really are no more good right handed FA OF left. With the Mariners close to signing Guillen, it appears we are going to sign gonzo if the cards do decide to get another OF. In this case the Cards have a lot of thinking to do. Edmonds and Duncan have a lot of trouble against lefties. Gonzalez is not terrible against lefties, but Enc is a much more balanced hitter. Will the Cards basically be willing to platoon if our outfield has Gonzo and Dunc at the corners? If we do this, then we will for sure have to resign so and wilson. They will be good backups in CF, and above average bench players. Although I dont like the idea of three left handed OF, I dont think we should trade Dunc unless we packagind for a top tier pitcher in return. I just dont think we should give up Dunc for someone like Jennings, who has rely only had one good season in the majors.

by redbirdnation on Dec 3, 2006 8:57 PM EST up reply actions

Instead of signing Gonzo

I'd rather just be content with: Duncan -- Edmonds -- Enc

Then use that saved money (no matter how little) to go towards Schmidt in the next couple days. If walt has roughly 24 million to spend on 2 starting pitchers alone, that's pretty scary. Hopefully he doesn't spend it all in one place.

I'm a Jenius!

by gibbons on Dec 3, 2006 9:09 PM EST up reply actions