2012 Draft Preview Drei: Middling Results
by the red baron on Feb 8, 2012 11:54 AM EST
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I was in the supermarket just the other evening when I spied something a bit unusual in the frozen foods section. It was a new premium ice cream, brand name Magnum. Now, I stopped when I spotted this ice cream, largely because of the name and the packaging. See, Magnum brand ice cream is sold in a very dark brown, almost black carton, with gold writing. What's odd, at least to me, is both the name and colour scheme of Magnum brand ice cream are essentially the same as Magnum brand condoms. (They're the large-sized condom line of Trojan.)
Well, this seemed like a terrible idea to me. When I'm shopping for ice cream, I really don't want to suddenly be reminded of oversized male genitalia. Just not my thing, you know? So how, I asked myself, did no one at this company say at any point in the process of bringing this product to market, "Hey, you know, maybe we shouldn't give our product the same name and look as plus-sized condoms," thus avoiding having people staring at their product in the frozen case, trying to decide if what they're seeing is a joke or not.
Just now, in the process of writing this intro, I became curious and checked out the company's website. Nice site, two front page panels, both containing the word Pleasure. "For Pleasure Seekers," proclaims one. The other advertises the "Magnum Pleasure Hunt," some sort of ice cream- or dick-themed scavenger hunt, I would imagine. The tagline for the Magnum Pleasure Hunt is, and I quote: "You're in control as you run and jump across the internet in search of pleasures. Let the hunt begin!" I don't even know where to begin explaining how many things are wrong with that sentence.
I'm still not sure if this is a joke or not. If it is, well done Magnum brand ice cream. You have elevated double entendre to an art form. If it isn't , then this has got to go down (tee-hee, go down), as an incredible failure of a company's entire marketing department to do even the most perfunctory of research.
Scouting reports after the jump.
Today we're looking at a trio of middle infielders. Last year's first round pick, Kolten Wong, plus the continued steady, if unspectacular, play of Ryan Jackson have combined to give the Cards more of a middle infield presence on their prospect lists than they have had in quite some time. However, it's still one of the thinner areas in the farm system, and give then extra picks the Cardinals have this June I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them spend at least one of their high picks on a premium position talent.
Deven Marrero, SS, Arizona State University
6'1", 185 lbs
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
So, what's so great about this guy?
Well, I'll tell you what's so great about Deven Marrero, and I'll do it in just one sentence. His walkup music is "Smells Like Teen Spirit." Or, at least, it appears to be so going by the video I'll have below this. That's enough for me right there to draft the guy. No idea if he can play or not, but the taste in music is plenty good for my club.
Actually, there's plenty of on-field stuff to recommend Marrero as well. He is almost universally considered to be the best defensive shortstop in this year's draft class, having won the Defensive Player of the Year award in the Pac-10 last season. He has plus range, good hands, and a rifle of an arm that enables him to make throws from anywhere he can reach. I've seen a fair number of Arizona State games (thanks ESPN U!), and he never fails to impress at least once per contest. The glove is major league-ready right now, and he has the talent to be one of the best defenders in all of baseball at his position.
The offense is less impressive, but still quite good for a shortstop. He's shown the ability to make hard contact consistently, largely thanks to extraordinary hand-eye coordination. His power is just average, but more than good enough for a premium defensive position.
Marrero is an athletic specimen, with a solid, muscular frame that's already filled out as much as it's likely to. He has good speed, particularly going first to third, but his stolen base totals are nothing special. I haven't honestly seen him run the bases enough to formulate a firm opinion, but I can only assume his instincts on the basepaths lag behind his physical speed.
Marrero is never going to be a special hitter, but he had enough success playing in the Cape Cod League last summer to suggest he shouldn't be completely helpless with wood. All the same, I'm not overly fond of his swing. There's something about the way he starts his swing I think could be better. His first move with the bat is to lift it, whereas I would prefer to see his first move going back into the load. It's a fairly small thing, though, and the sort of issue that could easily be remedied if it is, in fact, a problem going forward. He does have an intelligent, mature approach at the plate which should serve him well in pro ball.
The Cardinals do have Ryan Jackson in the minors playing shortstop, and there's a solid chance he'll make it to the big leagues one day. Still, Marrero is the sort of talent you don't pass on because you think you have Ryan Jackson coming in a couple of years. The only real issue with Marrero is his draft position. Depending on what he does this spring, he could very well be long gone by the time the Cardinals go on the clock. He's ranked in the top five of most lists of the top college prospects, and deservedly so. Players capable of handling shortstop defensively are one of the most difficult commodities to secure in all of baseball, and Marrero is definitely capable.
If Marrero is still on the board somehow when the Cardinals' turn to pick comes up, I think he would almost be a no-brainer. Unfortunately, that's not the most likely scenario in the world. Still, a draftnik can dream, can't he?
Nolan Fontana, SS, University of Florida
5'11", 190 lbs
Bats: Left
Throws: Right
So, what's so great about this guy?
Fontana is a lot like Deven Marrero Lite. He has a similar build, though a bit shorter, with similar defensive skills, a major college program pedigree, and an offensive profile that just doesn't quite measure up.
If you prefer not to compare him to another draftee, you can think of him as a souped-up version of Daniel Descalso. Lefty hitter, not a ton of power, outstanding contact skills, that sort of thing. Fontana does have better plate discipline than Dirty Dan, at least at this point in his career, but that could always change as he faces more advanced pitching.
The good thing about Fontana is this: he's not changing positions. He's firmly entrenched all the way to the left on the defensive spectrum, and he's staying there. His range might be a touch better even than Marrero's, and his hands are outstanding. He has a strong arm, though I think Marrero might have a slight edge there, and doesn't make the silly mental mistakes you see all too often in amateur players. If you draft Nolan Fontana, there's really no question you're drafting a shortstop.
Now that's not to say, of course, you're drafting a starting shortstop with Fontana. Or even a major league shortstop, for that matter. I have some real questions about his ability to hit enough in the pros, and I'm not the only one who feels that way. Fontana plays in a relatively neutral park, slightly inclined toward hitters, so there isn't any kind of Kolten Wong-esque park factor math which could make his numbers look appreciably different.
Here's the bottom line with Fontana: he'll play the toughest position on the field, and he'll play it very, very well. The only problem is whether or not his bat will ever be good enough to push him up to a level he can let his glove contribute. The Cards' first pick is too high for Fontana, but with their plethora of early picks I could see him as a very nice consolation prize for not landing the number one college shortstop in Marrero. His ceiling is a huge question mark, though.
Carlos Correa, SS, Puerto Rican Baseball Academy
6'3", 190 lbs
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
So, what's so great about this guy?
Carlos Correa is this year's Manny Machado, the big, athletic freak in the middle infield who invites Alex Rodriguez comparisons with his tools. Of the three players here, Correa has the highest ceiling, with the potential to be a true superstar.
It starts with power potential at the plate for Correa. He's a long, lean specimen with long levers and plenty of functional strength already. His power is mostly of the batting practice variety for now, but there's plenty of reason to believe it will translate down the road with better coaching and time to develop. His swing is a little long and a little stiff to my eye, but there's plenty of time to work on that. He can hit the ball a long, long way when he makes contact, and that's enough to dream on for now.
On the defensive side, Correa brings absolutely unreal arm strength to the party right out of the gate. He's been clocked as high as 97 mph in infield drills, and he can make throws the likes of which you don't often see this side of Troy Tulowitzki. His range is a plus as well, but the reviews on his hands are somewhat mixed. He's a much less consistent fielder than either Marrero or Fontana, which is largely to be expected given the age discrepancy.
The biggest question mark attached to Correa is going to be his size. At 6'3" or 6'4", depending on who you believe, he's much bigger than 95% of the shortstops in professional baseball, and the few of similar height (including someone like, say, Brendan Ryan, at 6'3"), are generally cut from much thinner, wirier cloth. Depending on how he grows and fills out, it's entirely possible Correa will simply outgrow the position. He likely has the bat to slide over to third base -- or, at least, he has the potential in his bat to do so -- but the dropoff in value between a shortstop and third baseman is not to be taken lightly.
Correa is very much a swinging for the fences type of pick, and is rated highly enough there's no telling if he'll still be around when the Cards' pick comes up. Still, high school players are much harder to project than their collegiate brethren, and prone to falling come draft day. The ceiling with Correa is absolutely monstrous, and some team is going to be sorely tempted to buy a lottery ticket with the chance at that ceiling.
'Nother batch in the books, everybody. And only ten days left 'til pitchers and catchers report. It's so close I can almost taste it.
The Baron's Playlist for the 8th of February, 2012 (click for 8tracks or below for embedded player)
"Comeback Kid" - Sleigh Bells
"Infinity Guitars" - Sleigh Bells
"Romeo and the Lonely Girl" - Thin Lizzy (never before has a song with such a stupid chorus still managed to be so awesome)
"Running Back" - Thin Lizzy
"Half as Much" - Patsy Cline
"Why Can't He Be You" - Patsy Cline
"Wailing (Making Out)" - Howler (thanks to Rob Levy for his help in identifying this song for me)
"America" - Howler
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I think all of SBN was down
I had trouble with VEB, STLGT, and APC
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 8, 2012 12:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, BtB and MinorLeagueBall weren't working either
I have actually been having weird glitches with SBN lately, and then I got nothing but 503 errors and Jackie Chan faces earlier today.
Anybody know what happened to the fanposts?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I thought it was just a glitch in the Matrix
(It happens when they change something)
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Or do they just exist in our alternate/sideways reality?
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
Speaking of Magnums, how 'bout that DGB fella?
Like a Pringles can down there.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
College is going to treat him well
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
who?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 8, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Magnum ice creams exist in the UK in the packs you describe
Trojan condomns do not exist at all
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
I guess the joke w/r/t the Magnum/Trojan paucity in the UK is too obvious to make, right?
by hangingfromatree on Feb 8, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
my question is whether, if one attempted to use
Magnum ice cream as a prophylactic, one could sue the magnum ice cream company for false advertising.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 8, 2012 2:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The commercial has been running once in awhile in the NE...
it is just as suggestive as the name…I found it very LOL
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
What about Cecchini?
Or is he considered a lock to move off shortstop?
more like he moves of of SS than Correa
but i wouldnt call it an absolute lock
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
Kantrovitz was a very good all-around SS
I think if there’s one position on the field that Kantrovitz will excel at scouting, it’s SS. He was very slick with the glove, good footwork, and had a good arm at short, but was undersized at 5’9" or so. He could mash with the bat for his size. He’ll know a good one when he sees him.
After watching this year's Super Bowl commercials, it appears that there has been a shift in advertising
Seems that it’s no longer about making the most persuasive or funniest commercial, but about making as much of an impression as possible.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
the internet is to blame
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 8, 2012 12:37 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It cannot be killed
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2012 12:38 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
klaw also thinks Carlos Martinez is the 4th best prospect in all of baseball
or at least he did at one time.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
midseason prospect rankings.
Harper was first, Moore was second, Shelby was third, and Carlos was 4th.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
I wonder if that coincided with Martinez dominating one level (can't remember exactly which) but before struggling at the next one?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I guess it was the move from Quad Cities (A) to Palm Beach (A+)?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I would not think that his Palm Beach performance changed his evaluation too much.
He was only 19 years old last year.
Yeah, you're probably right
I was just wondering if maybe Law made that particular ranking in the middle of a crazy good run by Martinez or something.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I don't think I have seen anybody rank him that high over all
So I wonder if even Law would still put him there.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
definitely have not seen anyone else ever rank him that high, for sure
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
Not really. This is just a general system rank
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
No, not really.
Not a lot of elaboration. Head nod to how well the team is positioned to compete in the medium term, and that’s about it.
Tomorrow...
Law unveils his top 100 rankings, as well as the top 10 prospects by organization. He also will discuss top prospects just outside of the top 100, and each org’s sleeper prospect, all unveiled tomorrow.
What's his website?
I’ve never bothered to follow him closely.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
OT:
For Kenny Powers fans, there is an awesome article up on Grantland right now.
"We will see you....Tomorrow Night"
that is good, but I expected more profanity
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
As a guy
with absolutely NO idea what he’s talking about, that video of Correa looks unbelievable. After reading your scouting report, RB, I think he’d be the ideal draft choice of a club that needs a potential superstar shortstop and that can afford (through sheer numbers of draft picks) to watch him flame out too.
halfway through it I thought, "this is a really nerdy thing I'm posting." but I just had to power through to the end.
Danup
Yeah, this.
With the number of picks they’ve got, I’ll be pretty disappointed if the Cardinals don’t make some upside gambles. I’d be at least a little surprised if Correa’s still around at 19 though.
Only way correra is still there at 19
Is if something goes very wrong for him between now and June
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 8, 2012 1:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Unfortunately this describes a number of clubs that pick before us in the June draft.
If he’s there at 19 we should probably take him, unless there’s a sure thing that can help more immediately in the short or medium term there as well. But I bet he isn’t around at 19. In fact, I’d wager that he won’t be around past 5.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
he won't get past theo
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
I think Theo would be more interested in building depth at this point
rather than taking home run type picks. Just because that’s how he rebuilt Boston’s farm system when he took over managing the scouting and drafts there.
Not to mention, Castro is likely a fixture in Chicago for some time. There’s so much good talent within the top 40 players in this draft that even a “best player” scenario is likely to elicit a number of different responses depending on who you talk to.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Unless Castro goes to jail over The assault charges
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 8, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
"I have hearsay and conjecture!"
“Those are kinds of evidence!”
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
i think castro is a 2nd baseman long term
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
Unless you can also posit that Theo thinks along these same lines....
I’m not sure this has much to do with anything.
FWIW, his bat doesn’t play near as well at 2B as it does at SS.
I don’t like him as a player much at all really. But he’s still pretty young and has good tools.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
i was just stating my opinion
probably doesnt necessarily mean anything
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
Doesn't that come out next week?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 8, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Feb 21st
It was pushed back.
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
great lead picture and caption
or greatest lead picture and caption?
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
I'm glad a cardinal fan was there to fuck with him.
Shouldnt your signature say your favorite word is goodbye instead of words? Or am I missing something?
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 8, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
It's from the Tom Waits' song
A Good Man Is Hard to Find. Originally I intended to update my sig with lyrics from whatever song currently caught my fancy (and link it), but apparently I am way too lazy to do that. But, for example, the lyrics for today might be: “Big John’s been drinkin’ since the river took Emmylou”
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Feb 8, 2012 2:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
One of my faves off the new one
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2012 3:06 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
ummm...anyone else see a lot of A-Rod in Correa's swing
especially the follow through?
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
Yea
He does the same thing with his follow through. Two handed until near the very end of the swing, when he lets go with his right. Left hand does the same pause/stop that A-Rod does at the end of the swing, as well.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 8, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
its kind of crazy to watch
i’m guessing a-rod is his idol
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
I can see that
although he takes a longer path to the ball than A-Rod does, especially the younger, pre-steroid A-Rod who was a .320 hitter. As RB says, he generates a lot of power when he makes contact , but I can see the making contact portion of that being a problem if he doesn’t develop a more direct path to the ball.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Draft thought:
is the lack of right handed hitters in the system something the club is likely to worry about in the draft? I just realized glancing over the MLB.com rundown on our prospects today how heavily left handed the farm has gotten.
Ryan Jackson and Tommy Pham are the only two right handed bats in the vicinity of our top 20 prospects. This seems like something the organization might be looking to remedy; I guess the flip side of the argument would be that Holliday, Freese, Craig, and possibly Molina are our most likely position player anchors for the next few years, so some lefthanded leavening should be welcome.
I just read that too, and who is Andres Serrano?
Apparently he is a 17 year old Dominican RHP, but I’ve never heard of him and don’t think I’ve seen him make any top prospect lists. MLB.com has him as the 20th best Cards’ prospect.
Yes
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
You're fooling yourself, Fritz. WAKE UP SHEEPLE
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 8, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But actually I'd assume LHP is the more common answer, because otherwise the picture would be of the back of the guy's head
And it would make more sense for the photo to have the dude’s face in it.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
wait really?
I’m just goofing around. I immediately saw RHP and then had one of those image-flip things happen, and was curious what other people saw. I do not in fact have anything invested in the answer.
I think we can safely infer from people's answers what they really think about the Super Bowl halftime show
And, by extension, whether or not they are a good person.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Heh. You dumb bastard.
That’s not a schooner, it’s a sailboat.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 8, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wrong, it's a dhow.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Junk
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Are you...
LH or RH? I am RH and first saw a LH pitcher. Do you think I may actually be a lefty after all these years?
I don't know
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 8, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
he's on third. we aren't talking about him
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
If I mentioned the third baseman's name, who did I say is playing third?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 8, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
No, Who is on first.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2012 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
he's not the only one
de Leon is apparently a top 30 prospect who projects as a potential power armed starter
also, willy paulino….who?
seriously, check this link out…its a goold rundown of the “prospects” invited to minor league pre-camp
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
He's evidently a pitcher who recently signed from the DR on October 13, 2011 for a reported $750,000 bonus.
He didn’t play for any Cardinal affiliates last year.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 8, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks, interesting that they would put him as th 20th best prospect
Must have some reportedly decent stuff.
Nah, it's just that everybody below the 19th prospect in the system is really meh
and Serrano smells like new.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think this makes much difference really
I also think that this gets played up way more in the media than it does in actual GM discussions about who to draft, trade, and sign.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
MLB Prospect Rankings
Did anyone else feel like they just more or less copied last year’s rankings?
Maybe I put more faith in Goldstein. He thinks Carlos Martinez projects as a reliever.
#givelancechants
i'm not sold on Martinez the starter
i think we should trade high if the right deal comes along (read: quality cost controlled middle infielder/CF
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
agreed-
that being said, with a gun to my head, i would bet that he will succeed quite well at the ML level.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
I'm not sure there's a player out there that exists in this mold
who would make me want him badly enough to trade a 20 year old with electric stuff. At least not right now.
Also, if Carlos Martinez can’t make the rotation and instead becomes a great reliever for 5-6 years, while preventing us from doling out a big contract to a “veteran closer” type, I still think this is a win for our club.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I dunno, I'd trade Martinez for Bourjos most likely
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I might do that. I'm not sure the Angels would though.
What would scare me off of Bourjos is the rise and fall of Franklin Gutierrez. They seem like pretty similar players. Gutierrez posted a 6 WAR season while riding a lot of luck on balls in play and an inflated ISO, then came back to earth the last two seasons. While he’s still really valuable with the glove, his bat is now nearly non-existent.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
there's a huge chance martine\z flops and only puts up 1 WAR a year or something
I’d trade him for a worse prospect if that guy is a shortstop or a centerfielder.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
last year people were saying his upside was at or near "the best pitcher in baseball"
is this still true?
/know literally nothing about the farm and/or drafting
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 8, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
His upside? Sure
His upside is Pedro Martinez
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
His downside is nobody you have ever heard of because his arm exploded in AA and now he's selling ZJs for $5 in the Domincan.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
oh well i know that.
but in fairness that’s most prospects downside.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 8, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
yeah that sounds right.
And his new American girl worked at a restaurant. Anyway: I liked Sugar, and let’s keep Carlos Martinez away from those nice Iowan girls who are just going to confuse him anyway.
Carlos is the one who is innocent.
And that’s the beauty of minor league baseball. That, and fireworks, and so, so many pancakes.
The beauty of minor league ball
is the between inning shenanigans such as trying to catch water balloons in a bucket on your head or spinning around in circles before running a race.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 8, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
even though marrero sounds an awful lot like
Jackson, he sounds like an excellent draft. That kind of depth is well worth having. Also, the variability in projections leaves so much uncertainty – an all-glove guy who comes up and hits for a .300-.310 wOBA can be fairly valuable. One who comes up and hits for a .280 wOBA, not so much.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 8, 2012 2:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
great Jonah Keri article today on Grantland on the spitball
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
by tehzachatak on Feb 8, 2012 2:38 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Some guys do a good job hiding it
and some like a certain beloved Cardinals closer had a brown sticky substance inside their black glove.
by openside on Feb 8, 2012 2:54 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
OT
I’m looking at ditching cable. Anyone have MLB.tv? Thoughts?
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Feb 8, 2012 2:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I live in the market, a little research would have saved me from asking a stupid question. I’m trying to ditch cable and its too much work.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Feb 8, 2012 3:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Eh, even in market there's a 30-second proxy workaround.
Sort of annoying to have to do it every game, but worth it.
ya, don't worry about the in market stuff.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
It's great if you have good internet connection
if not, it’s infuriating. But the video quality is close to that of a TV. And it’s easy to proxy through blacked out games.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
even better: splitting it with people you like!
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 8, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
o/
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
At least I actually paid the guy though
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
o u did?
now i feel bad. i retroactively owe him some money and unfortunately i don’t even remember who the hell it was.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 8, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
you didn't pay?
Yep, I’d trust you to be my accountant
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
this is why I never split with him.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i would have paid you upfront, dickwad.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 9, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
ya, but iirc, you didn't want to "split" it,
you wanted to give me $10.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i don't remember exactly.
my idea was probably that you could split it with a bunch of people.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 9, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
split implies halve it, which implies 2 parts
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 9, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
you're overly mean recently.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 9, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
If you live outside of the St. Louis broadcast area and don't have MLB.tv
You should be stoned to death, or at least until you’re a little bruised.
you mean the direc tv package? it is in hd
i love the game mix channel, you can watch like 12 games at once
Well Nightengale is reporting that it was the Pirates but mlb.com says the Padres
what the fuck
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 8, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I was just out looking for a home to start my retirement, and they offered me a contract.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I mean, he owns a restaurant there. This seems really convenient for him.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
I just can't wait
until the Cardinals can run out the same middle infield three years in a row, and all the delicious talent that implies.
Whenever I see this picture I think he has just said
“i like them french fried potaters, mmhmm.”
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. - George Carlin
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Feb 8, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Cool draft stuff as usual, Baron
Correa really looks like he destroys the ball on some of those swings.
I noticed just now that the Yankees are trying to shop A.J. Burnett. When was the “acquire A.J. Burnett” meme? 2006? 2007? I feel pretty sure that there was one but I might be conflating it somewhat with “SIGN BEN SHEETS”.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
After the 2005 season was when I was originally on the bandwagon.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
AJ Burnett would've been the classic Dunc reclamation project.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 8, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
I remember being at
this game and thinking “Oh we just HAVE to have him!”
"He probably misses his old glasses."
I saw that matchup and immediately thought
Game 3 ’06 NLCS.
This game and the NLCS game were the only HRs ever hit by Suppan, both off Trachsel
He had those awesome GB rates for a while
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Fontana's bat looks ridiculously slow, I like Correa's big slugger-ish swing.
He also has a throwing motion a lot like Alex Rodriguez so I can sort of see that part of the comp. Marrero seems unlikely to be available.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
hey
What was that site one of y’all posted where it had the countdown to pitchers and catchers report, opening day, etc for the cards?
mister miklasz has a yadi extension "byte" today
1. The Cardinals face a major decision on catcher Yadier Molina. With the departure of pitching coach Dave Duncan, Molina is more valuable than ever. He’s a great defensive catcher, an improving offensive player, and someone that the pitching staff entrusts as a leader.
It seems to me that if the Cardinals want to keep Molina beyond this season, his price will only go up, so they’d be wise to try and make a deal sooner than later. Barring a major injury, Molina figures to be an in-demand free agent after the season. The meter is running.
do we even know what the market is for yadi? would something like 3/30 get it done?
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 8, 2012 4:29 PM EST reply actions
one gazillion
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
how do you entrust something as a leader?
and how does that not sound wrong to somebody who writes for a living?
grumble grumble get off my lawn.
Bernie seems quite wrong on this point -
It seems to me that if the Cardinals want to keep Molina beyond this season, his price will only go up
It could easily go down, of course. First, Yadi could return to his historical offensive output, rather than continue his breakout of last year. Or he could get hurt.
This idea seems to be left over from the Pujols negotiations, but it seemed quite wrong then too. The story seemed to be that Lozano/Pujols would have only accepted an extension that matched Arod’s second contract – Pujols then took a +25MM haircut from that deal in the end, or something like 10% of the total contract value.
Last, it would surprise me if Yadi accepted a 3/30 deal. At this point, I wouldn’t see him accepting less than a 4/40 deal.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 8, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
The blanket assumption that someone’s price “only goes up” when they hit the free agent market is silly. That doesn’t always happen, and that’s assuming that they maintain their value in the season prior to them becoming a free agent, as you mention.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Ryan Howard's price is only going up! Better get him signed up two years early!
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 8, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Whats the hindsight consensus on the last Carpenter extension?
Did he make up the value of missing two years?
"He probably misses his old glasses."
Shew
I love Yadi and I hope he remains a Cardinal for his entire career, but 4/40 is a very steep price for a dude that has seen as many innings behind the plate as he has.
Then again, he has very little injury history, and what I interpret as abuse others may see as durability.
halfway through it I thought, "this is a really nerdy thing I'm posting." but I just had to power through to the end.
Danup
yadier molina in 2016
no thank you.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 8, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Hard to Call
Molina’s intangible value exceeds his actual statistical value. The Cardinals benefit by keeping him with the club for another 3-4 years. Even with significant regression, he is likely worth anywhere from $6M-$8M annually.
I would offer a three-year contract (total value $20M) with a fourth year mutual option and maybe a $1M buyout. The stability he offers makes this a fair deal.
by JWO on Feb 8, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
You're going to offer Yadi a contract
valued as if he were projected to produce 4-5 WAR total over 3 years?
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 8, 2012 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, this doesn't get it done.
Yadi, excluding his partial rookie season, has put up 16.3 fWAR over 7 years, which averages out to a little more than 2.3 WAR per year. Granted, last season was his best, but that was a 4.0 WAR season, so I think we could still look at 2.5 as likely over each of the next 3 years. That’s 7.5 WAR x $4.5 M/WAR = $33.75 M, or an AAV of $11.25 M, and I would bet he’ll beat that. I would also bet that his agent would start at at least $40 M for 3 years. I would also bet that he won’t settle for a 3-year contract.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
He's right on the cusp of regression
If you average his WAR over the past five years, it comes to about 2.9 WAR. That’s solid, but not spectacular. I guess it largely depends on what Molina wants. Does he want dollars, or the security of a long-term contract?
$13M a year seems pretty steep, all things considered. But maybe they’ve got that much money budgeted for this position. I still think a fair deal would be for $8M annually. Show me an active player who is comparable (shrug).
Well, Napoli filed an arb amount at $11.5 M (Rangers offered $8.3 M)
Mike is not as good a defender as Yadi, but is a better hitter (129 OPS+ avg, compared to Yadi’s 88), and has this last year of arb eligibility before hitting free agency after this season. He’s likely also headed to playing 1b a lot more. I would bet, based on his numbers, he will win the arbitration, unless they cut a deal. Just a guess, tho. As a free agent, I would bet Yadi will command closer to $12 M/year than $8 M.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
You might be right
But Napoli is a definite reach as comps go. 129OPS+ vs. 88OPS+ ? Well, to be fair there aren’t many folks out there that fit Yadi’s profile.
Oh, and I know I probably have sounded a bit argumentative this evening on this stuff. Let me apologize to anyone I’ve annoyed. Let me also state clearly and emphatically that I REALLY want the Cards to find a way to keep Molina for a few more years. The stability he offers makes way too much sense.
Noticed this perk in Beltran's last contract
club agreed to lease ocular enhancer machine (device that throws numbered & multi-colored tennis balls at 150 mph)
1. That is fast.
2. Do we have one?
"He probably misses his old glasses."
is he a preemptive jagoffulator?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 8, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't even notice it until you mentioned it
the whole glancing over comments autocorrect thing
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 8, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Batting Practice fastballs?
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. - George Carlin
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Feb 8, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
As soon as KMcC can throw 150MPH I will gladly stop complaining about his salary preventing us from signing Roy Oswalt.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
I'd hope we have one.
I knew a kid in high school who had one. Well, at least it threw tennis balls with little numbers written on them that he could read. His eyesight was much better than mine.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 8, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Cool.
USA Today link
“You start focusing on trying to recognize the numbers and trying to recognize the colors so you don’t think about mechanics,” Beltran says. “When the game starts, you try to focus on the ball 100% and not focus on mechanics. If you focus on the ball 100%, it’s going to give you time to recognize the pitch and recognize location.”
Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.
do you take drugs danny?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 8, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
In mother Russia...
you do not hit ball…ball hits you!
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
There is no spoon
You take the red pill – you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Worked really well with that Waino curveball
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
He watched it all the way in.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Sounds like Pujols does at batting practice. Numbered balls get thrown to him
I think he would say what number it was as he swung. Something like that
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 9, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
It's nuts that people can do that
Some guys just have advanced baseball brains from the future or something.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
magnum is a european brand
and trojan condoms do not exist in europe.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
they pretty much had a monopoly on the whole
“ice cream bar” idea, at least when i lived there.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
yeah they've had them for years and they're pretty awesome
when did you live there?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 8, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
it's still sold in the US
so RB’s point is valid.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
i meant that the name is a coincidence.
it wasn’t planned.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I kind of figured that.
It does talk about being imported from Belgium. Still, though, wouldn’t you think companies would have large teams of people whose job it is to make sure the name of their product doesn’t have any unsavory connotations in another culture when trying to make inroads into said culture?
Who'd want to be a man of the people when there's people like you?
by the red baron on Feb 8, 2012 10:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Radcliffe consumed too many firewhiskeys
http://tribune.com.pk/story/332889/radcliffe-admits-being-drunk-during-harry-potter-scenes/
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 8, 2012 6:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Went to work drunk
I call those days, Fridays
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 8, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
Rich Harden has surgery, will miss all of 2012
@YahooNoise Peter Gammons reported on MLB Network Rich Harden underwent surgery, will miss all of 2012. In other news, pigs still can’t fly.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
SIGN RICH HARDEN
for a medical school demonstration.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
i wonder if Yadi will report for spring training
he has been uncooperative since WS
by setitan on Feb 8, 2012 7:28 PM EST via Android app reply actions
where have you heard that?
haven’t heard anything like that
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
was in pd the other day, some comments to the editor or something, must have pulled them of the pd blogs
don’t know if setitan has another source
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 8, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
was in pd the other day, some comments to the editor or something, must have pulled them of the pd blogs
don’t know if setitan has another source
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 8, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
was in pd the other day, some comments to the editor or something, must have pulled them of the pd blogs
don’t know if setitan has another source
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 8, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
damn i was going for the cykie l(sp?)
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 8, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
cykiel ?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 8, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
We will probably never hear from him again
More than a week remains until pitchers and catchers officially report to spring training, but the defending world champions have already begun to assemble at Roger Dean Stadium.
Adam Wainwright, Kyle McClellan, Lance Lynn, Allen Craig and Gold Glove catcher Yadier Molina have been regular attendees at camp. Molina worked out Tuesday morning, his fifth day since reaching south Florida, and has struck many as having a leaner look.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
Farewell Yadi
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Contract year
Got to look good for the angels’ scouts
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 9, 2012 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
I actually heard he was Keyzer Soze
And like that
/blowsintohand
he was gone
"He probably misses his old glasses."
Easy to spot
just look for the guy with the fake limp
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2012 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
He's already in Jupiter.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 8, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
some posters at stltoday.com are overreacting
To his failures to show at the white house and at winter warm-up. As far as I can tell, rumors of his discontent have been severely exaggerated.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 8, 2012 9:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
...
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Feb 8, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I would imagine that he's unhappy that his best friend was dissed by the org
How could DeMo not offer $254 M???
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
He never puts his hand over his heart during the national anthem
Strikes me as kind of a prickly guy (if not militant).
Boog would have made that play.
he also strikes me as the kind of guy
who would be falling over himself to ridicule people for speculation if there wasn’t actually something going on
oh, you mean yadi
yeah, he never stuck me as super friendly, but it could just be shyness. i’ve never seen him be snarky in an interview like you see pujols do
The prickly-ness is mostly a language barrier, I think.
He just doesn’t seem to like giving interviews.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 9, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
communist
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 9, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
man, sbn has been buggy lately
also, thanks again baron… these posts are really good… if a bit ahead of their time
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2012 7:50 PM EST reply actions
I am watching a show called Drinking Made Easy
I think this classifies as getting my offseason work in.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
KU is handing Baylor a whuppin'
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2012 8:48 PM EST reply actions
Anybody else notice Marrero hitting the ump in the head with the bat at 2:50...
that was funny.
Sign Roy O
he just lumbered up on him and Marrero didn't realize the ump was there, very casual ... plus he patted him on the head
wonder what the ump said to him afterward
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 8, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
So the Rangers signed Elvis thru the end of his arb-eligible years
$14.4 M for 3 years. Seems like a pretty good deal for the Rangers.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2012 10:35 PM EST reply actions
I've been wondering why more of these deals don't happen especially for position players
The players get “I’m good for life now” money without giving up the “fuck you” money of free agency; the teams get guys at a should-be discount and some cost certainty.
Not afraid to nitpick
There's no discernible discount here...
and all the injury risk has been transferred to the team.
Sign Roy O
I suppose this protects them against...
Andrus going off and having an MVP type season. There’s not much risk of that.
Sign Roy O
I actually like the Ramirez and Nathan deals...
The Brewers don’t care if they’re overpaying someone in 2014.
Sign Roy O
The Fangraphs guys don't pretend to be all-knowing
A lot of this is spit-balling at this point. I disagree with a few of their calls too. But it is fun to speculate. Pitchers and Catchers reporting soon! WHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
How is Pujols not on this list?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
fear of being dramatically wrong if the rules just don't apply to him
or, fear of being laughed at by readers who can’t imagine any Pujols deal being a bad one
I am someone who thinks Pujols will have something like an 8-WAR MVP season in 2012,
but the contract is still horrendous.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
oh, I agree
but I could see how a person could believe that he just operates according to a different set of rules than every other player.
Doesn't Albert have to earn about 45 WAR
For the duration of the contract for the Angels to “break even”? If so, he better get those WAR whilst he can…
The big caveat
If Albert makes a genuine no-kidding run at the Henry Aaron / Barry Bonds HR title, the extra attendance at Angels games probably makes up for the cost. But that’s still a fairly large “if” at this point.
Beyond the contract
Albert will be pulling in money for the Angels until he drops dead.
How much have the Cardinals milked Gibson and Brock for?
I'm sure those two pre-free agency players
Would not in anyway appreciate the comparison of their compensation to someone who will make roughly $350m from the game of baseball before he retires.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 9, 2012 4:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Who says he doesn't copyright his face out of existence and use his money to create a moon colony for him to be king of after he retires?
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
But, I mean, he put the prince fielder as #2
The Pujols deal was (if not worse) almost as bad, I would’ve placed it somewhere around #4-5
by hr on Feb 8, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
I highly doubt that pujols' contract is as bad or worse
Than fielder’s, and no one has ever pointed to analysis that suggests it will be.While pujols is significantly older than fielder, he’s far better.
Let me put the contracts in perspective. Pujols is probably a 7 WAR player next season. Fielder is probably a 4.5 WAR player next season. The rough aging adjustment is that players decline half a win a year. Following that model suggests that albert won’t be as bad as 2012 fielder until 2017.
Now, there’s a ton of uncertainty in there, but it goes both ways. Sure, pujols could hit bottom sooner rather than later, or Fielder could have a sustained peak improving on current performance.OR . . . Fielder could decline faster than the model (his father was out of baseball by 33), or pujols could follow the hank aaron aging curve.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 9, 2012 1:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yup
By a rough back-of-the-envelope calculation, Pujols has averaged about 8 WAR per year over 11 years. Fielder has averaged about 4 per year over 6 years. One could argue that Prince is going to continue to improve or sustain a more elite level entering his prime, but the fact is that Fielder has not been, nor should he really be expected to be, the kind of player that Pujols is.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I don't think his contract is that bad
I think it’s slightly worse than market value.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 9, 2012 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
He said in a chat that he would have put Pujols on the list if it were 20 worst instead of 10 worst
Basically because Pujols is an over pay, but still just an awesome player.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Why Albert isn't on the list...
$33.3M a year production is what he has averaged for the past 6 years as a Cardinal (according to fangraphs.)
If Albert does that over the first 6 years of the contract, then he’d only have to be worth $11M a year (or so) for the last 4 years in order to make up the difference.
guess the schumaker/mcclellan/romero signings weren't that bad?
even as a whole? http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-10-worst-transactions-of-the-winter/
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 12:04 AM EST reply actions
They're too small to be considered
that bad. Unless they keep the Cards from getting Oswalt. Then they should be on the list.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 9, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
well
the opportunity costs alone are annoying me. add to that the possibility of losing the opportunity to sign Oswalt, and it’s just aaaarrrrggghhh.
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
Those three contracts
Were only about 5% of our team salary. I don’t like wasting money, but it’s not like we acted that foolishly.
Yeah
Mo’s “bad signings” are generally mild. Lohse is obviously the worst one he gave out, and had he not gotten “compartmental syndrome” he likely would have been worth it. And Westbrook looks bad right now, but it was only a two year deal. He reportedly had a lot of 3 year deals on the table, and we went a bit higher on AAV to get it down to 2, which I think was a smart move
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
what is the total of those three contracts?
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Like $6M
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
not horrible
but still, could end up being much higher in opportunity costs
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
.6 Roy Oswalts
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 9, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
Per COTS
McClellan – one year, $2.5M
Schumaker – two years, $3M
Romero – one year, $0.75M
Cost in 2012 – $4.75M
Cost in 2013 – $1.5M
Team Salary Obligations in 2012 (est) – $106.6M
Percentage of Total Team Salary Obligation (2012) – 4.5%
it's just blown out of proportion because it's the only thing anyone has had to talk about since beltran signed
in what, november?
if someone started following this team in mid-december
by reading VEB, they’re pretty sure this team is screwed
trust me
I could deal with one of those signings. but all 3 are a head scratcher.
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
and it's disappointing
given that I thought the coolest thing about TLR leaving was not signing replacement level players.
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
I guess Romero could be a post-Duncan reclamation project
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
isn't he bumping a reliever?
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think so.
He is bumping our ability to sign some other crappy loogy, but no one in the organization.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 9, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
maybe rzep will steal westbrook's spot in the rotation
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
I support the idea of Rzepczynski in the rotation
However, that would mean our lefties in the bullpen are suddenly….Romero and ????. Whoever the other ends up being, I can’t imagine it would be pretty.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 9, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
he's like below replacement level
he’s not terrible because he has some upside, but those 3 contracts get you more than half of the way to Oswalt and they add about zero value to the team.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 9, 2012 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you must have an RSS alert
for when i express an opinion about fringey baseball players. i wish i had your regex skills
by prophetjohn on Feb 9, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
shut up
you made a comment, i responded to your comment.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 9, 2012 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
On a somewhat side-topic
I wonder if signing Oswalt at this point wouldn’t be more harmful than good. He runs the risk of becoming a bit of a distraction. I know he represents an upgrade, but I like the current team chemistry.
What I was gently suggesting was...
Adding Oswalt requires somehow moving Westbrook, which may create some behind the scenes issues. It could be nothing – but it could turn into a big furball. It comes back to whether we really need that incremental extra 1-2 wins Oswalt represents.
Even if they were a "furball"
I can’t imagine it would be even close to the 1.5 extra wins Oswalt offers. I also don’t think they’re will be any problems, given Berkman’s presence in the clubhouse.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 9, 2012 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
The only person I think it would upset is Westbrook.
I think, for the most part, the players realize that their job security is dependent on how well they perform. Contracts only dictate the level of commitment that the team has in the specific player. Paying Westbrook $8 mil to be the mop up guy in the bullpen isn’t what either party planned for, but Westbrook continued to underperform last year.
Getting back to the clubhouse chemistry portion, I also don’t think Westbrook is the type of guy that would raise hell over something like this, unpleasant as it would be for him.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 9, 2012 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
pj is smarmy
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
(rides high horse into the sunset)
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 9, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
more of an adjective
nothing wrong with being smarmy… some of my best friends in the world are smarmy as all hell
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
and actually
I was using the wrong word anyway. me dumb sometimes.
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
not going to lie...
this subthread sucked. you guys got on PJ too hard.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 9, 2012 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
what, I said one sentence and it backfires in my face
happens to me all the time
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 1:46 AM EST up reply actions
well, VEP is immature half the time so PJ shouldn't be too upset
;)
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
yes.
while its frustrating that the Cards paying multi-million dollar contracts to players that could be replaced by a 450k salary callup, every team in MLB does it. VEB just likes its dead horses.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 9, 2012 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
well, I am more happy about our offseason than disappointed
fwiw. but they still don’t make sense to me.
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, I don't like them either.
And in no way is my ‘everyone does it’ an excuse for the Cardinals to get a pass. However, I’d much rather see the bad contracts on the team be $2 million for the 24th/25th guy on the roster than, say, 4 years/41 million to a 4th starter.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 9, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
The Marlins could be really good next year
Reyes, Hanley, Josh Johnson, Stanton… those guys could easily put up 20 WAR combined.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
Josh Johnson could also snap in half again and Hanley could be terrible
Marlins have a pretty wide spread that i could see them falling in- i would not be comfortable projecting them in any given 10 win range.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
Wait till they add that Cuban guy
They’re sucking up every latin american player as it is. Wouldn’t shock me.
by JWO on Feb 9, 2012 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
VEPuhoFoGoLoMo
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 9, 2012 4:15 AM EST up reply actions
it's weird that only one fanpost is showing
gotta make one more click! gah
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 1:27 AM EST reply actions
one thing that is still happening for me
is that when I visit the site, the first time it appears to be a broken url or something, and then when I hit enter again it goes here
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
can we use the Lebrons fault moniker
if the cards suck? Poor poor lebron…http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/7556817/lebron-james-apologize-kendrick-perkins-tired-blame-game
Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman
less than a week till my TV is no longer polluted
With Valentine’s Day ads.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 9, 2012 4:39 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Then it's on to paws egg dying kits and peeps marshmallow candies.
On a side note, love me some sugar bomb peeps.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
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