the 2012-16 CBA: the more you know
your mind is no doubt drifting towards the upcoming pitchers and catchers report date (february 18th!).
and while roy oswalt waits to see if the cardinals can convince the local pawn shop/check cashing place to give them at least $2m for kyle mcclellan, there seems to be precious little else to discuss in the way of the roster.
but there are some upcoming changes in the way the sport of baseball is to be run. since i needed to sit down with the new CBA (which, funnily enough, still does not seem to be posted online). however, the good people at MLB put some intern on the task of reading through a gigantic block of legalese, digesting it, and regurgitating a semi-readable Cliffs Notes version.
mlb gone wild
as you probably know, the league wants to introduce a second wild card team in each league. the two teams will face off in a single game to determine which of the two will proceed to play in the four-team LDS we are more familiar with. i think this will probably be at best a lateral move for mlb. as some people point out, it does create an incentive to finish first in your division. there's less chance that people will just forget to care about their division race in september. there have been in the past a lot of divisions where the 1-2 are close (think red sox/yankees; braves/phillies; texas/angels) but the #2 team will get the wild card anyway, so who cares by the end of september? on the other hand, you'll lose the converse drama associated with inter-division wild card races (think cards-braves last year) or even intra-division (rays-red sox last year). i guess i just hate the idea of a 1-game playoff deciding anything other than a pure tie in a division or wild card race.
the other thing to track is that the CBA mandates that the new wild card system be in place no later than the 2013 season. "no later than" potentially includes the 2012 season, and bud selig is hard at work to make that happen this year.
surprising nobody, the winner in this new system will surely be the coffers of whoever gets to broadcast these two games and, by extension, major league baseball for the fees it will get.
other scheduling and realignment issues
the astros leave the NL Central for the AL West in 2013. you know this already.
and having two leagues of 15 teams means season-long interleague. to the extent that changes how the game is played, note that it was easier during a defined interleague season for a national league team to bring up a DH-type from the minors briefly. since our DH-types tended to be nick stavinoha or mark hamilton, this will have almost no effect on us at all, because both hamilton and stavinoha have thus far been terrible at everything including DHing.
i would imagine most AL teams were previously unable to make the converse adjustment (briefly demote an offense-first player for a strong defender from the minors) because they likely have DHs and 1Bs that they are unwilling or unable to demote during interleague play anyway, so the changed interleague schedule probably has a modest negative effect on the national league. like we needed a further handicap.
luckily, this doesn't start till 2013, so matt adams will maybe get a chance to see if he can outdo hamilton or stavinoha.
compensatory picks
you've probably heard much of this but some of it's important and has not been emphasized.
- no more type A or type B picks or Elias rankings. requiescat in pace, stupid ranks.
- only players who've been with the offering team all season will create an opportunity for compensatory picks. if a trade occurs, nobody will get a pick. on the other hand, if a team knows it lacks the money or interest to make an offer to the player giving rise to compensatory picks, the team will be better off getting what it can and making a trade for another team's prospects instead of letting the player walk at the end of the season.
- instead of the Elias ranks and offers of arbitration, a team seeking a draft pick must 1) make an offer within 5 days of the world series; 2) the offer must be a guaranteed one-year contract for more than the 125th highest paying salary(ed: the average of the top 125 salaries: for 2012, $12.5m) from the previous year; 3) the player must have 7 days to accept.
- any club signing a player who declines an offer outlined above loses first round pick; however, nobody loses a top ten pick (formerly top 15). teams with top ten picks will lose its next pick, even if it comes in the compensatory round..
- any club whose player signs with another team after making the offer outlined above will get a compensatory round pick.
(ed: - also, teams will have a protected pick for two years, rather than one year; that is if a drafted player fails to sign, the club gets that pick again the following year; if a player drafted in that slot again fails to sign, the team gets a third chance before losing the pick entirely).
it's clear from the new compensatory pick system that the whole purpose is to keep mid-range and high-range contract values and lengths from exploding. if you're an owner, it doesn't do you any good to limit octavio dotel to a one-year deal in arbitration for pretty much what he was going to make in free agency. and it makes no sense (from the owners' perspectives) to reward teams for keeping octavio dotel off the free agent market. keeping the salaries and contract lengths of bigger dollar players will keep the salaries in check, they hope.
i'm sure there won't be any kind of offer that will make joey votto think about taking a one-year deal after 2013, but next year's edwin jackson or jimmy rollins may have to think hard when he gets a pretty substantial one-year offer right after the world series about the chance he's taking by testing the free agent market. and that seems to be the aim. assuming the intent of the prior system was to encourage players to accept offers of arbitration, it was a miserable failure based on the tiny numbers of free agents who actually accepted offers of arbitration every year.
competitive balance lottery
the other way for clubs to do well in the number of picks they get is to win the lottery. seriously. there will be this very strangely devised lottery for small-market, low-revenue clubs to get a chance at one of six slots at the end of the first round, with the lottery probability dictated by winning percentage. all clubs who receive revenue sharing funds (who did not win one of the 6 slots in the first round) will compete in a similar lottery for one of six slots at the end of the second round.
i presume that this is intended to do what the name says and improve the parity of clubs within MLB. i don't think that st. louis qualifies as either among the 10 lowest revenue or 10 smallest market teams, although i'd be interested to see how those terms are defined. (ed.: i am now hearing that the stl may qualify as one of the 10 smallest markets). however, i would imagine that pittsburgh, milwaukee, and cincinnati might all be in the running for those picks. the lottery doesn't seem likely to upend the division, but it may have some effect over the next years.
super 2 eligibility
the number of club-controlled players eligible for super 2 status will increase from the top 17% in service time to the top 22% in service time. will that cause clubs to push back top prospect debuts even further?
rule 4 draft
every team will now get a slot-based "pool" for how much they can spend in the top 10 rounds, calculated relative to how many picks they have and how high those picks are. the cardinals, with 6 picks in the top 100 will have a relatively generous cap. the cardinals can spend up to the cap on all their picks through the 10th round. it doesn't matter how it is distributed within that group; they can spend $100,000 on a first round pick and $1m on a 10th round pick. as long as they don't spend more in total in the top 10 rounds than is in their pool, there will be no penalty. the ideal is that teams will pay slot for everybody. whether teams obey that kind of logic is yet to be seen.
there are huge penalties for paying more than is in your "pool." a 5% overage is not a huge deal. let's say the cardinals got $5m to spend in the top 10 rounds. if they go over by $200,000 (4%), they'd be taxed a further 75% of that $200,000, which would be $150,000. However, if they go over by more than 5%, they get the 75% tax AND they lose next year's first round draft pick. go over by 10% and the penalty is a 100% tax and loss of next year's first and second round picks. go over by 15% and you lose your first round pick next year and the year to follow. i read the graduated penalties as giving teams room for small errors or oversights, but imposing very stiff penalties for anything beyond minor discrepancies.
beyond the top ten rounds, you can give anybody a bonus of up to $100,000. anything beyond that counts against your pool fund.
what will be interesting to see is if teams game the system or, if they do, how they do so. as i said, the concept is that teams will pay slot in an orderly way. since there's a finite pool, any extra money you pay to one prospect must come out of the slot money dedicated to another. but that leaves room to shift salary from one slot to another or even not to sign a player in a given slot, in favor of giving money which should've gone to him to another draftee. (ed: this is incorrect. although it does not appear in the summary cited above, baseball america states that when a player fails to sign, the money for that slot comes out of the pool. this woud seem to make a ground-up negotiating process, starting with the 10th round player and moving up to ninth, etc. almost mandatory.)
will teams take a chance in later rounds on signability players and just fail to sign some other players? (ed: as noted above, they'd lose the slot money if a player failed to sign; however the team could draft 30th round talent in early rounds and offer them far below slot talent - or as one commenter at bucsdugout suggested, offer pittances to college seniors, to keep money for above-slot signings elsewhere). if next year's austin wilson falls to round 8 or even round 12, will some team get creative with their pool funds? i suspect most teams will follow the designed plan, since the risk of not doing so seems pretty high. however, some team may find an irresistable prospect falling in the draft and shift money around to sign him.
the signing deadline has moved up substantially (mid-july) to ensure that players sign fairly quickly -- which should be easy to accomplish, there being less room to negotiate as most teams will hew closely to slot offerings.
international draft
the international draft will be run in more or less the same way; clubs will be assigned a "pool" amound to spend how they like on the available international signees, and a similarly stiff penalty system for those who exceed the pool funds.
luxury tax and revenue sharing
the luxury tax cap will go from $178m to $189m in 2014. penalty taxes for exceeding the cap become progressively more serious each season the cap is exceeded, including 50% for clubs exceeding the cap for the fourth time.
the fifteen clubs in the largest markets will lose the right to participate in the revenue sharing plan.
employee governance and benefits
MLB will begin testing for HGH.
sexual orientation discrimination is now prohibited. we're still years away from a player coming out while actively on the field, if for no other reason than what opposing fans might do. but equivalent measures for coaching staff or umpires may be enacted, which could be helpful to those less in the public view.
chewing tobacco is banned in all team functions where the public or media may be present. it must be out of sight and cannot be on the person of the player.
no "low-density" maple bats may be used by new players. what? it's okay for scott rolen to get speared by matt holliday's broken bat, but not matt adams's? seniority has its privileges, i guess.
super-duper 100mph rated batting helmets must be used, but they're alleged to be less Dark Helmet-like than the monstrosity david wright was wearing a couple years back. in all seriousness, i'm very happy to see professional sports taking concussions more seriously. new helmet technology is overdue. still need to be careful around maikel cleto and aroldis chapman, guys.
league minimum salaries will rise from $414K to $480K this year, $490K next year, and $500K in 2014. dinner's on allen craig all spring training, guys!
increased instant replay for fair-foul calls and trapped ball-catch plays.
more international exhibitions.
oh, this is interesting. no more begging off the All-Star game, unless injured or excused by the Commissioner. if they want to put a policy with bite to it, they should have required that players actually be on the DL the day before or the day after the All-Star Break. "injured" =/= "on the DL." but yeah; bud selig is going to come round to your house and make sure you're not faking, like principal rooney in "ferris bueller's day off." blah blah, better health benefits, pensions, etc,. etc. it's important if you're a player, but not to the average fan.
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Thanks, tom, for reading thru this
and distilling it for us peons. A grateful Cardinal Nation salutes you.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 3:02 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Does anyone know offhand what the 125th salary was last year?
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 4, 2012 3:09 AM EST reply actions
Aha, I found it.
via ESPN
the average salary of the 125 highest-paid players in baseball — which would be $12.5 million if those rules were in effect this offseason.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 4, 2012 3:23 AM EST up reply actions
As i read the post
Its the 125th highest salary, not the average of the top 125. Any clarification on this?
by ckeiner on Feb 4, 2012 6:12 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
that is how it's written ... must be more than the 125th guy's salary
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
The link says
it must be “equal to the average salary of the 125-highest paid Players from the prior season.” (emphasis mine)
no it's not
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
no it's not what?
The quote chuckb posted is how I’ve heard it reported as well. OTOH, we’re still getting this info second and third hand.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
sorry, i've been watching some british comedy this morning and my imagined tone of chuckb's reply somehow resonated
in my mind, as coming from polly in the fawtly towers series
so i answered as basil
but seriously i made the comment chuck was replying to in reference to tom’s article above
2) the offer must be a guaranteed one-year contract for more than the 125th highest paying salary from the previous year;
emphasis mine
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
This is how tom s. interpreted it, but as ckeiner notes below
the link says otherwise:
B. A free agent will be subject to compensation if his former Club offers him aemphasis mine
guaranteed one-year contract with a salary equal to the average salary of the
125-highest paid Players from the prior season.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not arguing what the link says ... the "no its not" comment was a /jok fail
I initially just responded to ckeiner with what I interpreted the post to say. then reiterated that’s what i was replying to, initially, in my response to TC, and explained I was joking with the response to chuck. i did not read the link … but i will accept it says what chuck, and now ckeiner, says it does.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
oh, left you of ISGIGRA ... I accept what you report the .pdf file in the link says as well
is this like stipulating in legal talk?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
hunh?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
what is your "hunh?" too?
the fact that I accept your block quote also? i said i accept what chuck and ckeiner report
or
the question whether my acceptance of what is quoted, but i haven’t read, is like “stipulating” in a court of law?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
maybe the "of" instead of "off" threw him off
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
yep you're correct
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
the
“oh, left you of ISGIGRA” part is what I didn’t understand
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
well glad that's settled then
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
nah, I think its
that it has to be higher than 1/125 of the highest salary. a-rod makes $30MM, so that’s $240K
by prophetjohn on Feb 4, 2012 12:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
The "Cliff Note Version"
Definitely says average of top 125 players, not higher than 125th highest paid player. Thus, you might want to edit the article. Thanks for boiling it down though!
edits done.
Thanks, everybody, for the comments and fact-checking! This is too big a project to digest on one’s own.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 3:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Interleague play
Will the rule changes really have much of an effect on the league balance? If they will stagger the interleague throughout the season, it should mean only 1 team any given weekend will be playing interleague games. So most of the NL will play themselves, and there won’t be a need to drag up a temporary DH. For that one series, the lone NL team playing interleague will need to bring up someone, but they can then send them back down. It may mean bouncing a player up and down from the minors for that team on several different occasions, but it shouldn’t have too much of an effect on the team.
isn't there just so many times you can bring a player up and down and then they are out of options?
if that is correct, and it may not be, you wouldn’t want to do that with the same player and burn up all their options. unless you don’t plan to hang onto the chosen player, and if that would be the case, said player wouldn’t be the caliber of player chosen to be the DH anyway, right? … cause someone on your bench would probably be as effective anyway.
another thought, is we’ll have one of jay, craig, beltran as bench player unless someone is hurt when DH is needed or the opposing pitcher is a lefty
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
not during a season
Once you have used an option, you can use it as many times during that season as you want (a la the Memphis shuttle).
On the twitters
by creativereason on Feb 4, 2012 9:06 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
ah, thanks for the clarification
do they expire if not used by a certain time in a players career?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think so
At least that’s not the case in MLB The Show’s franchise mode (where I’ve learned most of my MLB rules ;-) )
On the twitters
by creativereason on Feb 4, 2012 9:19 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
unless somebody goes on the DL, you can't
Recall someone from the minors within 10 days of sending them down. So, if we play a 3 game series in an AL park, it’s much less likely that we would, say, send down matt carpenter and call up matt adams, because after the 3 game series, we can’t call matt carpenter back up for another week. We can send matt adams down and call somebody else up, if needed.
This is a tiny effect and not really worth worrying about. I was just trying to think of practical consequences of the decision.
In any event, this would only have an effect in interleague play while craig or one of our other great hitters is on the DL. If craig, berkman, holliday, and beltran are all healthy, we won’t be looking for a DH in memphis.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 4:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
St. Louis would definitely be small-market
if the market size is defined by metropolitan area population. 21 teams play in larger metropolitan areas.
The one (and possibly only) feature of this that I like, in terms of draft and player development, is the lottery thing. The NBA has had something similar (based only on records, which IMO would be better), and there it wards off shenanigans associated with maneuvering for top spots in the draft. The CBA lottery is a halfway measure in that it only affects relatively late draft slots, but better than nothing. Better would have been to simply run a lottery for the FIRST six slots, the way the NBA has.
Banning chaw, however … that one gets my full approval.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
small market indeed
There are probably a dozen or so AAA cities that have populations
greater than St. Louis. For instance Memphis, Tn. Pop.680, 515 and
St. Louis, 352,572.
Any chance that at some point the citizens of Memphis might storm
the city of St. Louis take for it’s own the beloved Cardinals.
Metro area, not city size.
The Memphis metropolitan area is only about the same size as Oklahoma City or Richmond, Virginia, because it’s dominated by Memphis itself, relatively few suburbs compared to many cities. All that stuff across the river from St. Louis makes for a considerably larger metro area (roughly 2.8M to 1.3M).
The ones who look screwed by using metro area population are the Tigers. Medium-large metro area, but with half the population out of work, who can afford tickets?
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 4, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
The metro area is considered
but most cities now do have large populated areas grown up around them. and Memphis has Nashville a couple hours down the road.
Nashville and Memphis are different metro areas
Like DFW and Houston, they don’t mix that much.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Are you saying
that Memphis wouldn’t draw fans from Nashville and Memphis football
fans don’t attend the NFL Titans games in Nashville. Stats show they do.
The Carolina Panthers in Charlotte have a huge draw from Columbia,SC,
which has a metro area close to the size of Charlotte.
And back to Memphis, Little Rock and Hot Springs, Arksansas, 760,00 pop.
are practically suburbs of Memphis, little less than an hour away.
They have their own metro also but that dosen’t mean they wouldn’t
attend MLB games. I have wondered why the NFL didn’t expand to
Memphis Rather than Nashville but they know something I don’t I suppose.
As for KC they have their own major league teams, but my original post was kinda made half -heartedly in jest so don’t take any of this too seriously.
Nashville promised Bud Adams a new stadium
Memphis promised the Liberty Bowl.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
An NFL team also only plays 8 home games
opposed to 81
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 4, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think metro area is the determining factor of "market size."
For a better idea of market size, you might look at the population of the broadcast rights area.
#givelancechants
It would be nice to know what the actual rules are.
Doing it on broadcast rights area is probably mistaken, though, in a world where “broadcasting” is increasingly dominated by the internet.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 4, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
I'm divided on the chaw issue
I get it, but you have to wonder where it ends with the personal liberties. I guess I should stop now before bringing out the ol’ soapbox.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 4, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Typical workplace regulation...
these guys are entertainers, with children being a large segment of the intended audience. I generally hate the “think of the the children” argument, but many parents are either reluctant or flat-out unwilling to expose their kids to behavior that, if emulated, could possibly kill them. Kids aside, a healthy portion of the fan-base finds it completely repellent. Seems like a no-brainer…
Sign Roy O
This is an atypical workplace regulation.
Only about 11.8% of the American workforce is unionized. Most workers are employed at a workplace where they have little-to-no say in the rules of the workplace. The MLBPA has a say in the rules of their workplace. MLB and the MLBPA engaged in negotiations and reached a binding agreement—the new collective bargaining agreement. If the players, who make up the union, were dead set against the banning of chewing tobacco, it would not have been included in the contract the players agreed to.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Right
but then again, it’s a pretty atypical workplace in general. I doubt you’re going to find many defenders of tobacco, but it has been a part of the game for a long time nonetheless. Typical workplaces don’t serve alcohol on the premises – maybe they should ban all alcohol sold in the stadium. Same goes for religious symbols – sorry, can’t wear crucifixes anymore. And no more pointing to the sky when at bat, after a home run, etc.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 4, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
All these items could be part of the collective bargaining process.
Typical workplaces don’t serve alcohol on the premises – maybe they should ban all alcohol sold in the stadium. Same goes for religious symbols – sorry, can’t wear crucifixes anymore. And no more pointing to the sky when at bat, after a home run, etc.
…with the notable exception of religious symbols, which are protected as a form of expression.
If the players thought that doing any of these things were a good idea, they could enter them into the arbitration process.
I’m not sure what your gripe is actually: That players should be able to chew tobacco “because that’s the way they’ve always done it”? Seems a bit ridiculous to me — by extension, the league should retain the reserve clause “because that’s they way they’ve always done it.”
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I think some are losing sight of the fact that the players who do the chewing of tobacco agreed to the ban.
If the players wanted to use chewing tobacco because baseball players have always used chewing tobacco, they could have refused to agree to the provision banning chewing tobacco during negotiations. They didn’t. They agreed to the ban which means that the players as a whole—because the CBA was ratified by a vote of the players—don’t want to chew tobacco that badly. This was a mutually agreed upon ban that is contained in the contract.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Right
That’s the point I was trying to make above. If the players thought any of the above things were important enough to bargain over, they would bargain for them.
That’s why I don’t understand the anger over the collective bargaining process that some people seem to have. I assume those same people bitch about rules and regulations in their “right to work” workplace, and then complain about unions at the same time.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Cigarettes were a common part of nearly every workplace for a long time, too.
Societal attitudes about cigarettes changed and they’re banned now in virtually every workplace (by law in some states). The same thing has happened with chewing tobacco in baseball. A group proposed a ban on chewing tobacco during the World Series last season and the players were open to the ban. In the new CBA, they agreed to it.
Your suggestion that they ban alcohol at the stadium is a comparison of apples to fire trucks. In many workplaces, employees serve alcohol but cannot drink it. Most baseball clubs ban alcohol in the clubhouse even though patrons can consume it. As for the religious symbols, I don’t know where on earth this is coming from. It is a huge leap in logic to go from the players agreeing in a contract to no longer openly use chewing tobacco to the banning of religious symbols.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You're not playing Devil's Advocate, you're making illogical comparisons.
There’s a difference.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
You have to remember when discussing that the MLB is an employer in this instance
Yes it at first thought seems good but invasive, but put it this way, at my job I can’t smoke or dip on the sales floor. AT&T has the right to say that and so does the MLB. The MLB has uniform and conduct policies just like any other employer and while the players are bargained for by thier Union and play a game for a living, they are employees. They can be treated like employees
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 4, 2012 10:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
...
The first lottery will take place in July, after the 2012 Draft signing deadline has passed. The 10 smallest-market teams and the 10 lowest-revenue teams will be placed in the lottery to have a chance to win one of six extra picks in 2013. This doesn’t mean there will be 20 teams in the lottery. There will be plenty of crossover, with the expectation of having 13 teams involved.
The teams that will be eligible for the first lottery are the D-backs, Orioles, Indians, Royals, A’s, Pirates, Padres, Rays, Reds, Rockies, Marlins, Brewers and Cardinals.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Some pretty competitive franchises in that group.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Also
There’s another wrinkle to this. These lottery picks can be traded. That’s right, for the first time in Major League history, Draft picks can be dealt. But there are a series of conditions and limitations regarding such transactions.
Only a team that wins a pick in the lottery can trade it, meaning that selection can be traded just once. It can’t be sold for cash, and it may only be dealt during the season. Trading can commence the day after the lottery is held and is allowed until the end of that regular season. So seeing a lottery pick or two involved in some July 31 Trade Deadline deals is a distinct possibility. They cannot be included in any Winter Meetings deals, however, with trading of picks again permitted at the beginning of the following regular season.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Better to not have stupid lottery at all actually
Better would have been to simply run a lottery for the FIRST six slots, the way the NBA has.
The NBA has it’s rule to reduce the likelihood of teams tanking to move up in the draft, since getting LeBron James or Hakeem Olajuwon can bring nearly a decade or more of prosperity to your franchise. This just isn’t the case in baseball. One man does not make a team — not to mention: While Sam Bowie and Kwame Brown were tremendous flops in the NBA over the last decade, it’s hard to find many players picked in the top 10 of the NBA draft that never had an impact at any level on their teams. You find this all the time in the MLB draft.
The new rules make it simultaneously easier for small market teams to get more picks but also make it harder for them to actually SIGN all those picks AND puts in place a penalty system that favors big market teams who are willing to draft over slot and sign giant contracts. The Brewers can’t afford to pay the tax on going over the draft cap and lose their first round pick the next year, but the Yankees, who always pick in near the end of the round anyway, can easily afford to do this. They paid a pitcher $4M a year to PITCH AT AAA!
This whole system of tinkering with the draft is ridiculous. Teams that scout, draft, and develop talent have done pretty damn well over the past 15 years (Twins, A’s, Rangers, Braves) while not necessarily being “big market” teams. Why mess with that system?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I think this analysis is quite clearly wrong.
BQ. The new rules make it simultaneously easier for small market teams to get more picks but also make it harder for them to actually SIGN all those picks AND puts in place a penalty system that favors big market teams who are willing to draft over slot and sign giant contracts.
It will be much, much easier to sign all picks now. And there really won’t be “drafting over slot” anymore — the giant contracts will all be grouped at the top few picks, like they are now. The penalty system doesn’t favor big market teams because it’s hard to envision any plausible scenario where a big market team will be foreced to play a player so far above slot that it would be willing to give up two whole drafts (the current one, by using all the available money to sing one guy, and the next one, by losing their picks).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Wrong? That's a matter of opinion, not fact. Because you can't have any facts at this point -- we haven't seen this system in place.
I disagree. You are making the assumption that there won’t be “drafting over slot” anymore — I think that’s a really big assumption to make since we haven’t seen a draft yet under this system. They’ve been tinkering with this system for YEARS trying to putting a “slotting” system in place and it’s never taken hold. Teams always find a way to exploit it.
I also disagree that the penalty system doesn’t favor big market teams. OF COURSE IT DOES. They can afford to pay the penalty — most small market teams cannot.
The new compensation rules, which I didn’t even discuss, also undermine the well run small market teams ability to compete, but at least they make it more fair for the players in terms of being able to be compensated at a market rate based on their ability, not due to the fact that they were good enough the previous year so that it costs the signing team a first round pick.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
If you had been an MLB GM
and had had a chance to tinker undetectably with your team to slightly worsen their results, so you could draft Strasburg or Harper … would you have done it? Doing it is unethical. Not doing it hurts your team.
Yes, most years there isn’t a clear #1 choice who can transform a franchise the way a top NBA choice can. But Strasburg and Harper are that kind of player, and they won’t be the last ones. And Washington was so bad at the end of 2008 that one can’t rule out the possibility that it may have happened. Look also at the way Seattle went into the tank in 2008. They just didn’t tank quite enough.
Do I really think shenanigans happened in 2008? No. But I don’t think it can be ruled out in the future.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 4, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
no. any given draft pick is too volatile in value
And the difference between a #1 and #2 pick too slight to make a difference. Certainly not worth risking the internal strife and demoralization associated with such a move, let alone the external shitstorm that would ensue if you were caught publicly.
The last time there was an organized effort to throw games for extrinsic rewards was 1919. Nobody wants to do that for a draft pick.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 4:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Are you stating that the Nationals intentionally lost games to get two #1 picks?
Which also happened to be the best two picks in the last 10 or so years?
You’ll have to show me some proof, because I don’t buy it. There’s lot of reasons for tinkering with roster construction beyond “tanking games”.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
You seem to be having some comprehension problems tonight.
I specifically said I did NOT think those shenanigans happened, merely that one cannot rule the possibility out. And that’s the problem. The draft needs to be Caesar’s-wife clean. Even when no shenanigans are going on, the perception that there could be shenanigans is harmful. An NBA-style lottery is a useful antidote to that.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 4, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
But...we still get our draft pick loot this year...
…right?
:=8/
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
in many way, being pick-rich from the old system
But picking prospects under the new system is the best of both worlds. Trying to negotiate with 6 top guys with unlimited money to spend is far worse than having a more or less set slot amount to pay each one.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 2:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I keep hearing how getting high draft picks is not a great idea
sounds like the cards have plenty of money to sign all their picks — just cant go for signability picks
Just win
How would getting high draft picks be a bad idea? The best players are usually at the top of the draft.
Also, what do you mean that the Cards “just can’t go for signability picks”?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
DENTAL PLAN
Lisa needs braces
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 4, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
DENTAL PLAN
Lisa needa’ breaceso’
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj5OT3z1VGA
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
The compensatory picks look scary as hell
Seriously. I’m sure they make sense when you get used to them, but good gravy, losing a first round pick by exceeding singing bonuses more than 5% sounds daunting. Well. I guess folks will adapt and all that. Frankly, if they were going to this far, I wish they had addressed the whole idea of trading draft picks. Other sports do it – why mot baseball?…
This is a sport that hasn't determined the playoff structure for the season...
that is scheduled to start in eight weeks. You think GMs might want to know that? The mgmt. of the game is crazy.
Sign Roy O
The GMs are the ones who most want the extra playoff spot.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
It's the lack of a decision two months before the season starts that's nuts...
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Feb 4, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just don't think it makes any practical difference.
I don’t think teams are changing any plans or doing (or not doing) anything differently based on the new wild card structure. It will be decided well before the season starts, in any event.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure at least some teams project the number of wins required to get to the playoffs...
and the number of wins their roster is likely to produce. For example, with two WCs the Cardinals pretty clearly can do without Roy Oswalt if it means reducing future payrolls to cover this outlay. If there’s one WC, maybe Mo gives it more thought.
The difference between the best non-division winner and the second best non-division winner is usually a game or two. That doesn’t change whether you sign Matt Holliday, but it does impact the margins.
Sign Roy O
I've seen this rationale -- it's speculative, and doesn't make sense anyway, IMO.
Teams surely do project their wins. But no team would confidently do so within “a game or two” and no team would know where the cutoff would be next season to either make or not make the playoffs, based on wheher a single team is added.
Moreover, the Cards aren’t going to take on $5-10MM in additional payroll (or do anything else, IMO) because of an unknown but slightly better chance to make a one game playoff (which they may not host anyway), 162 games into the future.
Bottom line, the projections are far too volatile and imprecise, and the payoff far too scant, to take any positive or negative action, even on the margins, because of the difference in wild card scenarios.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
So if the league decided that
the playoffs would be a 16 team round robin tournament with double elimination on March 1st, that wouldn’t effect roster construction? And it’s also not the least bit ridiculous that teams are making decisions not knowing what the playoff structure is for the upcoming season?
I’m not sure how one could not find this stupid and unorganized on the part of a multi-billion dollar industry.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I remember and article about McClellan as a player rep saying that he
thought it was a good idea..
but he is afterall selfish..
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
This is an attempt to keep players who haven't yet played in the majors from making more than union members in the big leagues.
I agree that clubs should be allowed to trade draft picks. I believe I read reports that the new CBA allow for the trading of the competitive balance draft picks, but not other draft picks.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, I remember seeing that now.
They can be traded only once.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
one thing I forgot: no more Zack Cox contracts.
Major league roster deals are verboten; only minor league deals.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 2:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The issue with trading picks is that
someone like Frank McCourt could trade away the first round picks for the next 5 seasons to acquire, say, BJ Upton or James Shields….then sell his franchise next year, leaving the new ownership with no first round picks for years.
This used to happen in the NBA all the time, pre-lottery. Now teams use draft picks in the NBA mainly to get rid of really stupid contracts that they talk themselves into (like the Clippers w/Baron Davis — they sent Minnesota’s #1 pick to the Cavaliers along with Davis to dump Davis’ contract and get it off their books. That pick became the first pick in the 2011 draft — with which the Cavs took Kyrie Irving, who is in the running for ROY, and the amnestied Davis’ contract to get it off their cap. Look next to "stupid motherfucking jackass slumlord in the dictionary and you’ll find a picture of Donald Sterling. Lucky for him, the league bailed his ass out and dumped Chris Paul in his lap)
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I think teams should be able to trade draft picks, if they so choose.
If a team wants to cripple itself—like, for example, the Oakland Raiders—that’s the choice of the team. I don’t really care about future owners, though. Perhaps MLB owners do.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think teams should be allowed to trade draft picks as well.
I’m just providing a sort of Devil’s Advocate argument for why that’s not such a great idea. I don’t think the MLB draft is in any way comparable to the NBA draft either.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Presumably...
if owners take measures that harm their team, the value of the team will decrease.
Sign Roy O
This is completely ignorant of how major league franchises are valued.
Show me a single major league team that has ever lost value in the last 40 years. McCourt has run the Dodgers horribly the last two seasons…..and yet will pocket some $400M from the sale of the club by all accounts.
There are only 30 teams. There are many, many more potential buyers for a franchise than there are franchises available, especially when you consider that it’s a business where the value of the franchise goes up at around 5-10% every year.
Over the last 50 years, it’s been impossible to lose money by owning a MLB franchise.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
its not a matter of telling teams what's good for them
its making sure that rich teams can’t dominate the draft by virtue of being rich
by prophetjohn on Feb 4, 2012 12:26 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
But the MLB is a corporation trying to make money
And the teams are franchises. While the MLB shouldn’t care what franchises do better or worse they do care about maximizing the corporate intake, just like any other corporation with franchises. Competitive balance maximizes corporate intake, so the MLB can and should maximize thier revenue by not letting franchises screw the pooch, even if they shouldn’t help a franchise at the expense of the MLB as a whole. This is why leagues control what cities teams play in rather than telling owners who want to move team, well, tough shit if it doesn’t work out. This is why leagues like the NHL own teams an why the MLB handled the Dodgers from McCourt. It wasn’t to save the face of a storied MLB franchise and uphold tradition, it was to keep that Dodger fan money coming in.
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 4, 2012 3:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If the MLB had a true revenue sharing agreement with an equal split for everyone
this might be true. But they don’t. So it’s not.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Presumably
the new ownership would be aware of the traded draft picks and could re-value the purchase price accordingly.
> tebow
by cschepers on Feb 4, 2012 1:18 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Franchises aren't valued on wins and losses.
So this just doesn’t hold. If the Dodgers lost 100 games in each of the next 10 seasons, they’d still be worth $1.5B or more in 2022 just due to being the lone franchise in LA and having all the land in and around Chavez Ravine.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
You make a good point, but I think you're exaggerating it.
Are the Mets as valuable as the Yankees? Of course not, and I think part of that (though certainly not all of it) is the history the Yankees have of winning.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
What is it with these singing bonuses?
How are we supposed to stop these guys from singing? I mean, I don’t like to sing in public, but if a young man with a decent voice decides he wants to audition for Glee while signing his contract, who are we to stop him?? This just sounds un-American!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't stavinoha playing in Japan?
by Cheeseballs on Feb 4, 2012 10:50 AM EST via mobile reply actions
yes, my thoughts too but figured he was just using an example of what cards have used for DH
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
OT: anyone seen/like the "Black Books" series on netflix?
just watched the 1st episode and thought it quite good. going back in.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
It's pretty good.
A fairly short run, but that’s not uncommon with British television. The same writer also did the IT Crowd.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
that's the thing that disappoints...so many great shows, so many of which are so short lived with limited episodes
but they win me over by always leaving me wanting more.
I’ve laughed out loud a few times this morning and i’m only half way through the second episode
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I've only seen the premiere, but key and peele looks awesome.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 4:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
thanks for the suggestion
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Re: Draft pool / slots
Would it be absurd for a team to simply waive a later-round pick in order to have more pool money to sign earlier round picks?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 11:05 AM EST reply actions
Yeah, but that's a pretty shitty thing to do to a kid that wants to play baseball.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
That's business.
And it’s going to happen.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This makes me wonder how the cba affects undrafted free agents
by mattyfrommo on Feb 4, 2012 11:18 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
To me, this is the thing to do.
Draft expensive players, sign them to expensive contracts, and sign a whole bunch of undrafted free agents.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That would be a terrible idea under the new system.
The new system is designed so that “signability” picks no longer fall. You’d never be able to implement this plan because scads of super-talented signability players aren’t going to continually fall into a team’s draft slots.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
I think two-sport high-schoolers and college players with NCAA eligibility left could very well fall.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 5, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
there's all sorts of things you could do. pick a hard
Sign in round 2 and round 3: tell them both, “the first one to sign bets the round 2 and round 3 slot money.”
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 2:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
bets? or gets?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
I thought I read somewhere that the pool would be decreased by the slot of any player that goes unsigned
so if we don’t sign all of our picks, we lose the pool money for whoever doesn’t sign. But, I haven’t read the CBA, so tom would know more about this than me.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Wow, that would be dicey.
They wouldn’t really know how big their pool is until after everyone is signed?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I don't know
I think I read it on twitter, so take that into consideration.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
let me check on this - that would limit some of the
Potential mischief.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 2:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It would, but it would also have the effect of instituting a hard slot system.
Teams couldn’t rely on “borrowing” part of another round’s slot money if that money disappears when that draft choice doesn’t sign.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Not exactly a hard slot (though the new system generally is designed to do this, more or less)
Bascially, if a team thought that it would need more than the “slot” amount to sign their 3rd round pick (say, because the 3rd pick had inexplicably dropped or the team had rolled the dice on a player who had already said he was a firm college commit), then they could take guys in rounds 4-10 who they knew would take the minimum slot amount to sign, hoping to use the marginal extra pool money to sign the 3rd rounder.
There’s lots of reasons why that is a really terrible plan on the club’s part (and why such a circumstance is unlikely to happen as a practical matter), but it appears possible for it t happen. (and if it did, there’s nothing especially “wrong” with it happening – in fact, it’s close to what happens now, given that teams have internal budgets).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I haven't read the CBA either - just the summary MLB
Provides. They don’t seem to have released the original.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 2:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
thanks, scoot. you were right. BA has a series
Of good articles on the CBA. I’ve edited the OP to reflect this fact.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/2011/11/more-draft-details-from-the-cba/
Here’s the article indicating the pool monet will have the slot funds deducted if a player fails to sign.
One final thought on all this – you might yet see some signability types taken after the 10th round. Teams could work on keeping demands down in the top ten round players and then use any excess pool money to try to impress the signability guy drafted in the 11th or 12th roundm.
You won’t be able to offer him a million-dollar bonus, because there likely just won’t be that kind of room in the pool. But the team’s pool won’t decrease if he doesn’t sign (because he’s post 10th round). 11th and 12th round picks may get interesting.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 4:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
...
One final thought on all this – you might yet see some signability types taken after the 10th round.
If any pick outside the top ten rounds is signed for more than $100K, then he counts against the bonus as if he were taken in the first ten rounds, so this loophole is closed (and if the player is taking less than $100K after the 10th round, it’s hard to consider them “signability” types)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
yes - that's what I am proposing. teams could
Sign their draftees from the first ten rounds, and then come back to their eleventh round draftee and offer him any leftover pool money + the $100,000.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 4:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ok. Doesn't seem like a very good plan in practice, though, even if possible
because you wouldn’t know that X or Y “signability guy” would still be available in the 11th-12th round, all the while the team is drafting the not-best players available in the first ten rounds.
In other words, why wouldn’t a team just draft the signability guy according to his talent level in the 1-3 rounds and pay him slot? That slot amount is going to be in excess of whatever a team could cobble together from scrimping here and there among the first ten rounds and then hoping that the desired player is still available 3-8 rounds later.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
you probably won't get 1st round talent falling
To the 11th round, nor will teams still have first round money in their pools in the 11th round. But there may be bargains to be had – especially in the first year – from players and agents who overestimate the market for their talents.
Say a player told teams he’d go for 4th or 5th round slot money and nothing less. He didn’t get picked, and he’s still around in the 11th round. I can see a team that thinks it’s picked judiciously and thinks it has some leftover pool money giving him a shot.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 5:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I guess my point then is what is special about the distinction between the 9th-10th rounds and the 11th and 12th in that scenario?
If the signing bonus for the 11th-12th round guy counts against the bonus pool (because it’s > $100K), then why would it make a difference whether the guy was drafted in the 9th round or the 11th? (your original post made it seem as if there were a way to game the system or take special advantage of the 11th round to nab and sign signability players)
I guess what I’m saying is that I see the possibility of taking advantage of a guy who dropped past the level at which he said he’d sign by taking him later and using savings from signing other guys to under-slot deals. But I don’t see why the 11th round is special in that happenstance.
I think the most likely way to “game” the system is available to a team like the Astros this year. If there is no consensus #1 pick, then you could probably get one of the of potential top picks to sign an under-slot deal at the first pick (which would be overslot for the 3rd or 4th pick, making it attractive for a guy who might otherwise drop). The Astros might conceivably save $1.5-2MM in pool money in such a scenario, which they could use to nab unexpected fallers. (BTW, I don’t think there’ll be many fallers who don’t deserve to fall – the high-end HS players don’t have a incentive anymore to keep teams in the dark about whether they will sign – the “Josh Bell” plan will get killed by the new system.)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
because the 11th round is the first time when
A failure to sign would not take away from the pool fund. Postponing a chancy draftee till then makes sense.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 6:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ok, i see what you're saying.
I still think it wouldn’t be very smart for team to draft guys who you’d expect to take under-slot deals in the first ten rounds (presumably these aren’t “the best players available”) on the chance that there’d be a higher-level but chancy talent available in the 11th that you could shift some dollars too.
Better to take the best guys from the beginning, expect to sign them for slot, and then, if there’s a signability guy, draft him later and hope he takes 100K to drop his college commitment.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Does the new system seem like it's directly aimed at agents like Boras
who, at least in my mind, always managed to get their clients overslot money? Has he weighed in anywhere about the new rules?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Never mind
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
glad I could help
Do you think that, as The Continental suggested, this makes for more of a hard slotting system?
Also, the slotting is going to come out as deals get announced and people are going to figure out who went above and below slot pretty easily. Could you see some resentment developing between the college senior who was drafted in the supplemental round and signed for below slot and the toolsy high school kid drafted in the 10th (or even 11th) round that signed way above slot and basically got the college guys money?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
You wouldn't waive it - the most that wuld happen is that you'd be sure the draft pick would sign for a minimum sum.
Clubs already talk to players before the draft to understand who would sign for what amount of dollars.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
yep

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 11:13 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
The more I see, the more I think I'm going to love this monstrosity.
In ten years, we’re going to look back and thank Loria for breaking the throwback cookie cutter trend in ballparks.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Plenty of room on the bandwagon.
Embrace the HRD!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Yeah, it's starting to grow on me
In an ironic way, I think
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I loved it from the second I set eyes on it.
Music started playing even
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 4, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
I cannot believe how much it actually looks like the animated gif.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Yeah, it does look pretty spot-on.
Or, more accurately, grotesquely spot-on
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
It's only a matter of time until LoMo is caught trying to ride one of the marlins.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
LoMoGoFo Ride 'o
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I''m kind of liking it, but wouldn't want that type of thing here
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
my thoughts as well
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
it's like something made for disney or universal studios
could use it in the simpsons’s ride at universal and would fit right in, the ride is a cartoon 3D experience (that i loved) but the building/area you line up in and walk through is pretty wild
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
I will say this for it: if it fits anywhere, it fits in
Miami.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 3:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It actually doesn't look too bad as a part of the whole ballpark
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
No, it's still absurd.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
agreed
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Haters gonna hate
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
that park looks gorgeous
why, why, why did they have to put that stupid thing in left center?
by hr on Feb 4, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
it's located near the
Miami Pimps Musem, and just left to the Shag Carpet wall
Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman
by punchinjudy on Feb 4, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
maybe they should've renamed the team
The miami cocaine cowboys or something.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 9:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
...because it's awesome?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
This is a great shot
gives you a real perspective of just how gobs-awful big that thing is. Looks like the right field wall is going to be closer than the left field wall. Guess it’s a good thing LoMo is a lefty.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
maybe it's just a visual effect but the left field wall looks closer to me
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
I think left and right are about the same with a very deep center...
also, this from wiki:
The Marlins announced that dual aquariums that will serve as a home-plate backstop. They will be built on each side of home plate and will be positioned to prevent any disruption to players on the field.
Sign Roy O
My prediction: Beltran or Holliday will foul one back on opening day and we'll have tropical fish all over the place...

Sign Roy O
if it's beltran with holliday on deck, what if one got stuck in his ear! .... ohhhh the humanity, and fishies!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
They should have a gigantic aquarium in center field...
with a bunch of great white sharks in it. Then during commercial break they could throw different things in there and watch the fish devour it. They could have “tank diving” competitions to amuse the fans – kind of like at basketball games they’ll pull a kid out of the crowd and let him shoot baskets for $10,000. Only here you’d have to make it to the other side of the tank without getting chomped.
Sign Roy O
This is the feature I'm actually looking forward to seeing.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
These pedestrian accessories have also been installed.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Oooo, cool.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
concur that center looks deep, and again it may be optical illusion, but left field looks shorter, i think because of the way the grass runs around the outfield wall
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
only the fans shall be distracted from the play on the field
by tropical fish
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 4, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
As well, this from Wiki
The Marlins announced that the new stadium will retain some of the features that Sun Life Stadium currently has, especially the outfield dimensions. The deepest part of the new ballpark will be 420 feet (130 m) from home plate, and then it will slant down to 416 feet (127 m) in straight-away center field. The “power alley” in right-center will be 392 feet (119 m). The shortest dimension will be 335 feet (102 m) down the right-field line. The vast area in the “power alley” in left-center at Sun Life Stadium, also known as “The Bermuda Triangle”, will also transfer to the new stadium. At FanFest in 2009, team President David Samson announced that the shallow left field and deep right field at Dolphin Stadium will be flip-flopped at the new ballpark.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
looks like there's a cup to the side of it
Is this actually a mini golf course for giants?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Why is the area where the hitter's eye should be bright green?
Are they going to add the hitter’s eye later via CGI?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 5, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
In case anyone's wondering what it's supposed to actually do when a HR is hit,
there’s a video of it here.
by BTown Birds fan on Feb 4, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa
I did not know the sbn app had live updating.
by mattyfrommo on Feb 4, 2012 11:16 AM EST via Android app reply actions
I'm looking forward to this as well.
It will likely mean a couple of trips to the Quad Cities for me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
given the high number of top picks, the low
Minors will be flooded by August. One interesting effect is that the pressure should move a lot of last year’s prospects forward quickly. Or, force tough decisions like trades and releases to make everybody fit.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 2:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Quick draft-pick recap from Langosch
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 11:45 AM EST reply actions
Nice to see she's hitting the ground running.
I’ll miss Leach, but I think she’ll be fine.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 4, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
so is the amount of interleague games increasing at all?
or is it roughly the same amount just distributed throughout the season?
i mean there were 252 interleague games in 2011
that’s plenty of games to accomodate one to two interleague series at a time over the course of the season
I had calculated it at one point
and it didn’t look like the number of interleague games needed to increase all that much. What the schedule will actually look like is another matter.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
unless i am missing an obvious variable (likely)
it doesn’t seem like it needs to increase at all, i mean just roughly going by april 1 – september 30 is only 183 days, plus you have the all star break, so 252 games is more than enough to accomodate at least one interleague series at any given time, right?
however
what makes the most sense (and i’m probably late to the game):
72 intradivision games (18 per team)
60 games against the rest of the league (6 per team)
30 interleague games
with the interleague games, you just match divisions against one another and rotate them every year, and everyone plays 6 games against every team in that division
that looks like a perfectly fair and balanced schedule, which means there is no chance it looks like that
and if you do it like that
i think you could ditch 2 and 4 game series and play strictly 3 game series across the board, which would be beautiful
Teams should play six game series...
it would drastically cut down on travel, which is expensive, polluting, and hard on the players.
Sign Roy O
It's a little radical...
but I’m not sure what the drawback is… Maybe it would get boring to watch the same team six days in a row?
Sign Roy O
and seriously
if the players could handle it when they were riding trains from city to city and not making millions of dollars, i think they’re okay now
and when you consider how many commercial airplanes fly around the country every day, baseball teams taking a few less flights is pretty meaningless from a pollution standpoint
i mean the cost is the only one that i can see, but really, is that worth it? i don’t think so
Teams back then routinely played 4-6 game series...
often with a number of doubleheaders, so granted it wasn’t usually six straight days in a city.
Still, it would be a drop in the bucket in terms of jet fuel and dollars saved, but if they announced the change as an environmental/financial thing it could have a significant impact on the culture. Plus, I’m assuming the players would like this, but I guess they might not for some reason…
Sign Roy O
Has anyone
bought this yet, and read it? If so, is it worth getting?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 4, 2012 1:44 PM EST reply actions
I bought it and it has good pictures, and features, neat stuff for future recollection etc.
Haven’t actually read it just leafed through. Think it will be a nice souvenir piece to help show future grandchildren what happened. It also goes into the cards postseason history, player bios, significant events/achievements, has area on cards WS victories, pics of the rings, etc.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'm already stoked for the draft
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
I thought I saw our pool number somewhere.
Does $9.5m sound right? I thought I’d seen it in Langosch’s article but couldn’t find it when I went back.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 2:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i think i've seen $12M but can't recall where, nor swear to it
might have been from one of the main posts
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Leach did a similar piece before he left
maybe it was in that?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
not sure, but the original MLB.com article
At the time of the CBA signing said pools would be between $4.5m and $11.5m.
While we have a lot of picks, we don’t have any top ten picks, so I would imagine we won’t have the highest pool amount, but close to it.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 4:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why isn't each pick assigned a slot amount
And the slot amounts totaled for the pool? Also if this isn’t the case then how will teams have thier pool deducted if one guy doesn’t sign and they don’t assign a value to that one guy?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 4, 2012 4:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
totally agree
i guess i just hate the idea of a 1-game playoff deciding anything other than a pure tie in a division or wild card race.
so, you are going to have an actual postseason round that is just ONE GAME? that just seems stupid. you are going to use your ace in that one game, obviously. then what? you get to face a division champion with your #2? that just seems weird to me. or do you throw your #3 guy in the one game playoff and hope for the best? just seems a little ridiculous… although I suppose one could say it makes the wild card winner a true “wild card”.
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 2:46 PM EST reply actions
I think you're hitting on why a lot of people think it makes a team's performance in the regular season even more important.
Under the old system, other than homefield advantage, there really wasn’t any benefit to winning the division versus being the wildcard team. There certainly is an advantage to winning one’s division now.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
yup
as tom s. said, it’s basically a lateral move (trade some cool things for some different cool things)
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
good news, rams fans: you're getting the #1 pick in 2013.
“miklasz Rams coach Jeff Fisher on @BernieShow — “I can promise you this team won’t be picking second (overall) again.”
2 days ago"
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 3:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Well it is a waste to pick 2nd. If they had just lost to the Saints like they were supposed to...
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
can someone help me out with some wisdom
i am looking at this student loan and it sayd interest is 5.6% but when i look at the payment they charged me 30% and when i called they said interest accrues daily. wtf?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
interest is really confusing to many people
but once you understand how it is calculated, it starts to make sense. I built a spreadsheet that contains an example. In my example, I have a 10K loan at 5.6% for 10 years. If you look at the first month, after one month, you have accumulated $46.67 in interest. The interest that grows in one month is just 10,000 × 0.056 / 12. So when you make your payment, you pay off the interest and the rest goes to principal. The next month when they calculate interest, it is based on the new principal balance of $9,938.32 and so on.
Based on 30% of your payment being interest, it sounds like you have a relatively short loan (5-10 years). If you ever buy a house with a 30 year note, you will notice that about 80-90% of your payment goes to interest. It’s not that the bank is trying to screw you over, it’s just that you’ve accumulated a lot of interest. In the early years of your mortgage, paying an extra $50 or $100 a month really helps cut down on the length of the loan.
I hope that helps.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
yes, thank you
that clears it up
the statement looked very suspicious and i didn’t have the promissory note so it caught me off guard
i just set up 3 high monthly payments to cut down on the interest and should have this paid off by the end of the year
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
congratulations
I should have mine paid off sometime around my 70th birthday
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
So MLBTR now says the Reds
Are interested in Oswalt. If they sign him i’ll be so fucking pissed.
by mick311 on Feb 4, 2012 4:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions
he's not just signed ex-cardinals anymore ... now he's trying to alter the space time continuum
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 4, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
JOCKETTY!!!
(shakes fist)
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Hard to believe
Where is this money coming from
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 4, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
It acknowledges that they might not have the money either.
They’re just talking/exploring the possibility.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
Yea, haha...kind of a worthless update,
“Rosenthal now hears the Reds are not actively pursuing Oswalt, but they are kicking the tires on the right-hander.”
by mick311 on Feb 4, 2012 8:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Breaking:
“According to sources, the Cincinnati Reds are aware that Roy Oswalt is still a free agent.”
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Also:
Roy Oswalt’s agent is furtively trying to get his client more money by discussing the 34 year old right hander with ALL THE CLUBS.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
They probably think its do or die for them
given the way the Cardinals are normally and now the Cubs are trending competent. Their window is probably rather short and tenuous. The Brewers have been competent for a while now as well, and add to the volatility of the division.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 5, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
good to see
That MLB has finally decided that discrimination is a bad thing
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
by Aranathor on Feb 4, 2012 7:23 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions 3 recs
Ummm?
The MLB broke the color barrier with Jackie Robinson and was one of the first major players in Hispanic American rights
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 4, 2012 8:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
MLB gets credit for breaking its own color barrier?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Good point, but they didn't invent western culture
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 4, 2012 8:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Right, I was commenting on the finally in his sentence
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 4, 2012 9:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Value of lost Pujols
How do we determine the value of lost Pujols? I assume it looks something like $22 million (what we were willing to offer) per year plus the expected value of the WAR we get from those two draft picks. Is there an aggregate dollar value or net present value that can be assigned to those picks?
Just win
I'm going to Detroit for the first time next weekend
anything interesting to check out? going to take the camera in case I can get some pics of some urban decay. although I hear the downtown area is actually pretty nice.
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:06 PM EST reply actions
awesome...
I love post-apocalyptic ruin tours. Someday I want to go to that russian village inside the chernobyl exclusion zone.
Sign Roy O
Pripyat looks fascinating.
I’m sure you’ve seen the various pictures.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
does anyone know if that Robocop statue actually was installed?
that would be the main thing I’d like to see
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
seems that the mayor said no
thanks for lessening my tourist experience, detroit mayor
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't the Detroit mayor a former baseball player?
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 4, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
Eminem played baseball?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think last name is Bing
which means that his name is kinda ruined by the horrible search engine
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, basketball not baseball.
Named one of the 50 best of all-time even
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 4, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Basketball
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
they did get it funded but I think the mayor put the kabosh on it
I can’t seem to find out for sure if it was installed or not… I seem to remember one article saying it got installed in an art area of the city, rather than in one of the main areas.
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, I'd imagine that, once funded, someone would agree to have it installed somewhere.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
Seems like it's getting done.
From the blog about it, dated December 26, 2011:
We’re excited to let you know that a long and crucial and awesome progress bar has finished loading and we’re now entering a new phase of RoboDevelopment.
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 4, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
You're free to commit as much arson as you want...
how can you improve on this in terms of tourist experience.
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Feb 4, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
why isn't Roy in talks with Detroit?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 5, 2012 6:09 AM EST up reply actions
A lot of the urban area has been torn down
plowed under and ready for summer planting of corn and barley.
that could be interesting
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
just read an article where the author posits that physical media such as bluray and dvd will be gone in 5 to 10 years
I see this as a little questionable, since many areas do not have access to high speed internet. but I suppose that could happen somehow…. would definitely be more like ten years minimum though.
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:22 PM EST reply actions
Those formats will die out when it is no longer cost-effective to continue production.
It’s possible that threshold will be reached before outlying areas get reliable high-speed Internet access.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
so those people wouldn't get to see new movies
interesting
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Of course CDs and vinyl are still being produced, so DVDs and BluRay seem likely to truck on for
quite a while still.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
Vinyl is more of a retro thing, right?
That and for DJs
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
For certain values of "better"
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
I need to call Xzibit
And get him to put a record player and adequate speakers for it in my car. Would make me coolest man around.
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 4, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Aw, yeah.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This is excellent.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
vinyl sound quality equals CD sound quality
they both have strengths and weaknesses… my favorite strength of vinyl is the bigger artwork, and the psychological sense that it seems more of an experience for the listener, with the forced song order, the interim in the middle of the album, and the gradual wear and tear of listening, giving the owner a unique copy of the music. CDs of course are more portable, have a clearer high end and a better dynamic range… but they lack the warm midrange of vinyl.
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
In my experience, and maybe I'm wrong,
But DVDs are already mostly dead aren’t they?
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 4, 2012 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think so,
but I don’t look for current movies much.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
dvds aren't dead yet
since many blu-ray players have an interpolation system that cleans up some of the jaggyness of the edges. I refuse to re-buy much of my collection.
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
plus dvd's are cheaper than blu-rays usually
which is an obvious advantage
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Bob & Tom cited a story a couple months back
stating that all of the major record companies will soon abandon the CD as a format except for collectors items. In the same story they mentioned that some (new) albums are available on 8-track
http://www.reghardware.com/2011/11/07/record_labels_to_kill_cd_format_by_end_of_2012/
(I dont think this was the article they were quoting, but its the first one I found)
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 4, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, idk about gone, but I think they will be well into decline.
And effectively gone in areas with high speed access. Television will change a lot too I think. The technology exists for us to watch shows without paying for a bunch of channels and shows we don’t ever watch, and have no interest in watching. It’s only a matter of time, especially while the internet remains mostly unregulated.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
I wonder if this will mean even more migration to urban areas
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
To some extent perhaps, but I doubt it'd be massive.
Many of the people that live in more rural areas like living there. Also, it’s probably cheaper for many people to just pay to have high speed internet installed in their neighborhoods, than to get up and move. Obviously, they won’t pay for that directly, but if they’re willing to pay enough providers will install it. It’ll probably be easier to install there than in areas with high population density anyway.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
I'm no anthropologist
but the media that movies / television are distributed on seems like an unlikely impetus for mass urban migration.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I suppose most of the moving has been done already
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
This
Seems like most are set in their ways. At least in my experience of driving through Western Nebraska. Personally, I would hate living in a small town and knowing everyone.
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 4, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
I refuse to buy dvds (Bluray or not) anymore
How long did Cds and Dvds last? 15-20 years? Bluray isn’t a whole new technology, but instead, just an upgrade package, and as such, I would say 10 years is a reasonable estimate for its deathspan.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 5, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
Hell
that’s hockey, ain’t no scoring in Hockey.
by ridgesee on Feb 4, 2012 9:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Tell that to the Predators.
Bums already have two.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Sporting Events!
That’s one of my favorite entertainment options!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i hope there will be lots of points accrued for the home team!
by prophetjohn on Feb 4, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope the team with my rooting interest improves its standing relative to its peers!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No one here likes those.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 4, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Surprised there are no posts about Mizzou-Kansas
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 4, 2012 10:02 PM EST reply actions
I see one.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Feb 4, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What is that?
Like, jai-alai or something?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Jai-Alai
The Sport of Cocaine Kingpins!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
That's because we are all in Columbia for the game
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 4, 2012 10:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Pekka Rinne is playing like he's watched this game already.
Unreal.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 10:13 PM EST reply actions
So. Many. Chances.
sigh
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
42 SOG
and there were some ridiculous saves
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 5, 2012 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
and a couple posts for good measure
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I am watching the Bulls
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 10:36 PM EST reply actions
and they win by 23
Michael Jordan approves
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
WHAT!?
There is absolutely nothing in your name that would indicate why you are watching the Bulls.
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 4, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
I haven't got to see them much yet this year
but then again, I’m not a huge basketball fan (although it is my third favorite sport)
VEL starts Tuesday
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I haven't watched much of the Nuggets either.
Though that’s mainly due to them not being on TV. Ridiculous considering they’re #2 in the West.
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 4, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
The Knicks are 9--15 hahahahahahahahahahaha
The Knicks gave up way too much considering they would get him at the end of last year
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 4, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Come on Tigers, pull a Woods
And fuck these bitches
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 4, 2012 10:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions 6 recs
Also, what's the deal with the Tigers never playing the Jayhawks again...
like the announcer said? Are they going to the SEC for basketball too? Surely a game with KU could be arranged…
Sign Roy O
Of course they are going to SEC for basketball also
For all sports
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 4, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Not between the major conferences.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
kansas is bitter.
Could still be a bluff though. Can’t imagine them refusing to play them for very long — money is too good. Pressure from the rest of the Big 12 maybe?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 4, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
it’d be a shame to pull the plug on Kansas-Mizzou. The SEC seems like a hoops wasteland…
Sign Roy O
Florida and Kentucky.
Vanderbilt is usually decent.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 4, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
That's a pretty tough non-conference game to schedule
I don’t know if TV is ponying up for the big inter-conference matchups in basketball yet; they’re only doing them in NCAA football because the checks are so damn large.
well, I feel like football will definitely continue
Its not that crazy of a non-conference game is the longest rivalry in sports. Basketball is a ridiculous matchup but OTOH losses are assumed and RPI is almost just as important. A game like MU-KU would boost both teams RPI quite a bit while giving each a shot to jump teams in the standing (if MU can extend their competence). If you look at teams such as Duck and NC, they get a ridiculous amount of chances to stay in the top 10 in comparison to the rest of the field, IMO.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 5, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Its still tentative
but seriously how pissed were you about the Nebraska and A+M moves before we went to the SEC? I kind of liked the Big12 because it was a great conference for most everything, just run like shit. Also, KU only has basketball so its not like they are as diverse as Mizzou?
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 5, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
How many days till Pitchers/Catchers report? 15 days?
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 4, 2012 11:12 PM EST reply actions
February 18th.
Or as tom s. starts his post above:
your mind is no doubt drifting towards the upcoming pitchers and catchers report date (february 18th!)
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
In My Pants!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Anyone else think
Pitchers and Catchers is the perfect name for a gay bar.
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 4, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I try not to.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 4, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Oh son of a bitch...
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
May every curveball life throws at you be a hanger. \mm/
WAT
Cards close to signing Alex Cora
This guy was apparently not available.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
This was my reaction, but it's a minor league deal, so whatevs.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 4, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
hopefully he's playing the freddie bynum role.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2012 11:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
just TLR bringing in another veteran to "compete" in spring training
. . . oh wait
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Is this a reputable source
Fool me once...
I’ll be hesitant to believe you the next time. I refuse to jinx this by getting excited. I will make up at 8 am SHARP to check tomorrow though.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 4, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
No
It is just an old link from Jan 28th
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 4, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, I just noticed that too.
Dammit. I was secretly excited.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 4, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
This is a more reputable source.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Sad thing is, that's actually MC Hammer dressed as Darth Vader.
Gotta get those bills paid.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 4, 2012 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
I am okay with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Guy used to work for the A's -- he knows what it's like to adapt because you don't have money.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 4, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
I remember this news breaking a week ago when I was on here...
apparently I bring Oswalt signing news…
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
May every curveball life throws at you be a hanger. \mm/
May have gotten more chicken for tomorrow than strictly necessary.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 4, 2012 11:58 PM EST reply actions
Just invite Kobayashi
337 wings in 30 minutes.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
That boy ain't right.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 5, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
That boy ain’t hungry right now.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Chiptotle is doing 50% orders of 6 or more burritos for Super Bowl
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 5, 2012 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
awesome
wish I wasn’t going to be on a plane all day.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 5, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
Tomorrow's Handegg Spectacular meal involves horseshoes.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
You're gonna make DanUp all sad.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Feb 5, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
I blame MomBender.
She found the recipe used at Wayne’s Red Coach Inn.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
others probably said it, too
but that was a yeoman’s job of reporting; lots of stuff. Thanks for your work!
Howard Webb sucks
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 5, 2012 1:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions

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