Tyler Greene's Second Chance is a First Chance at Second Base
by azruavatar on Feb 26, 2012 9:19 AM EST
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There's a very clear opening for Tyler Greene in 2012. The departure of Tony LaRussa, despite the re-signing of Skip Schumaker, appears to be have changed the evaluative environment. The latest writings of Derrick Goold go so far as to call Greene the "preferred candidate" to start at second base. It's a far cry from the player who has been an afterthought for the better part of the last two years.
For fans, Tyler Greene is, perhaps, difficult to get excited about. He's had many opportunities and has never fully realized the expectations for his potential. Tyler Greene suffers from prospect fatigue. When a player has been in the minor league system for an extended period of time, it becomes far easier to write them off as a non-MLB caliber player. They don't have to have a clear deficit -- though Greene surely does -- but rather by fact of having been in the minors for so long, they are labeled in that fashion.
Tyler Greene is getting one more chance to overcome that prospect fatigue. He's getting one more chance to be a starter in the majors. It's taken nearly seven years for him to get here.
Greene went to high school in Florida and, despite being a second round pick by the Atlanta Braves, proceeded to college. Drafted out of Georgia Tech in the 1st Round of the 2005 draft, the Cardinals took him two selections after Colby Rasmus (the only prospect that makes VEBers say dumber things than Anthony Reyes). If you want to flashback to his college days, Greene's player bio at GT is still live.
It may be a long time ago but even watching Greene now is a reminder as to why so many teams liked him in 2005. He was (and in many ways still is) a toolsy shortstop. Unsurprisingly, Greene played in the Cape Cod league, which is a favorite scouting ground of the St. Louis Cardinals. In 2004, he hit .296/.413/.424 in his second prominent venture with wood bats. The year prior to that, Greene had been a part of Team USA.
After being drafted in 2005, Greene logged 55 games split between the Cardinals short season A-ball club in the NY-Penn League and their High-A affiliate, Palm Beach. In his first eligible year of prospect ranking, he was was placed third behind Anthony Reyes and Colby Rasmus in the Cardinals system by Baseball America. At the time, they wrote:
The Cardinals regard him as a pure shortstop with a plus arm and good range. He's an impressive specimen with legs that look like a sprinter's, and an above-average runner who is an efficient basestealer. Greene's ultimate value will be determined by his bat. He tends to be streaky and needs to use his hands better. He gets erratic with his defensive footwork at times, leading to throwing errors. Greene has impressive tools to go wit great makeup and a willingness to learn, so he should move quickly if he hits.
It's a write-up that could have as easily been penned in 2011 as it was in 2005. That is one of the more perplexing aspects of Tyler Greene's growth. Clearly he has advanced through the system over the years. He reached Memphis in 2008 and has spent four seasons there performing in much the same way that he did his first season. A Tyler Greene season can be characterized by the following: lots of strikeouts, good power for a shortstop and a great SB/CS ratio. That's as true in 2011 as it was in 2005. Despite being the "same" player throughout his minor league career, he has not failed to raise his game to the level of his competition as he advances.
Take a look at his 2009 season, for instance. Greene spent 89 games in Memphis and hit .291/.369/.482 with 86 strikeouts in 388 PAs. He swiped 31 bases while being caught 3 times. Greene's speed has led to some wild BABIPs but, combined with his impressive power for a shortstop, it's not at all unexpected to see him perform above average in that category.
Some of what keeps the allure of Tyler Greene alive entering 2012 is what hasn't been said about him. He's been in the minors for seven years. He's been in Memphis for four of those seven. How many articles have you read about Greene's bad attitude? How many articles have you read about his unwillingness to learn or how difficult he is to coach? How many times has his character been impugned in the paper? He's a ripe target: an older player who still hasn't found success and tends toward the light-hearted side on the diamond. And while there have been suggestions that the pressured situation Tony LaRussa created was not beneficial to Greene's arrival in the majors -- see here and here -- Greene appears diligent in coming to camp ready to turn over a new leaf. From Joe Strauss's article:
"I've felt like I could play at this level. What's frustrating for me is there were times I'd slip into a funk and I didn't really get the chance to bounce back from it," Greene says. "I know myself. I know I can bounce back from something and be back where I've always been with my ability and my talent. I know you have to perform. But I also know that I can get to where I need to be. Sometimes not getting that chance was what was most frustrating to me."
Clearly, Greene is getting a chance now. And it makes sense why. With Skip Schumaker's offensive value receding from above average to lousy over the last two years, there's an opening. Rafael Furcal will be the starting shortstop but Greene's surprisingly excellent year in 2011 made some take notice.
Greene played just 66 games in Memphis accumulating 303 PAs. He struck out in bunches, 75 total, but also, with a high BABIP, hit for a .323/.422/.579 line including 14 home runs. It was, by far, his best season in Memphis; a full 150 points of OPS better than his 2009 performance.
Greene isn't out of the woods yet though. Despite an excellent 2011, statistical projections are still tepid on Greene. ZiPS considers him a lesser hitter than Daniel Descalso and roughly comparable to Skip Schumaker. While Greene's defense should easily outperform Schumaker, his baserunning might be the only tangible commodity he offers over Decalso.
It's been seven years for Tyler Greene to get from Georgia Tech to a (potential) starting second baseman of the St. Louis Cardinals. It is arguably the last shot he'll get at being a starting position player for a major league team. Fans may be tired of hearing about a player that hasn't "developed". Writers may be tired of penning articles on his potential and possibilities as a major league player. This spring training will likely put an end to all of that.
The question is: Will the next Tyler Greene article be about his success as the Cardinals second baseman or the end of the road for a once top prospect?
2012 is here. Baseball is coming. Soon we will know.
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A Derrick Goold article about this is up over at the P-D.
Greene is the Cardinals’ preferred option there, if he can put it all together.
“I don’t think that’s the ideal model, and my hope is that ‘Greeny’ can take this job and do it,” Mozeliak said. “One of the things myself, Mike and the major-league staff thought was intriguing was giving Tyler Greene an opportunity to take this position. His athleticism and what he brings to the table as far as speed and power … it’s a unique skill set. (That) set is something that traditionally we haven’t had in our lineup.”
One thing I really love about Schumaker on this team is his knowledge that he is not the best player in the world, but his willingness to do what is best for the club:
“I think they know what they have in me, and I think it could be exciting if Tyler puts it all together,” Schumaker said. “That’s the way it is. I’m here if needed. I’ll be ready if things don’t go as planned.”
and
“Just because some guys are going to get more of an opportunity this spring than others, doesn’t mean you stop working at it,” Schumaker said. “If you hit they’ll find you a position. That’s the old cliché, and I don’t think this is going to be any different.”
think it perfect as is
skip recognizes he’s not the best and wished TG the best for the sake of TG and the team, but yet skip isn’t selfless, he wants to do his best and have op to contribute
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Skip Schumaker, the person, is one of my favorites.
Skip Schumaker, the player, ummm…well he’s a great person.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 26, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 12 recs
"I know this player that would be great for you."
“Yeah, what’s his wOBA?”
“Um, he’s really gritty. Uniform is always dirty!”
“What’s his defense like?”
“He’s a hard worker! Great guy in the clubhouse!”
“Doesn’t sound like my type. Thanks, though.”
“C’mon, give him a shot. He has a great personality!”
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 26, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
This
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 26, 2012 2:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I suppose it's to his credit that he's made the best out of his limited talents
I remember when he came up (it may even have been 2005) that pretty much nobody thought he likely had much of a major league future (other than maybe a 5th OF type at best), and, although to be fair his play hasn’t made him more than a backup outfielder, he has been a pretty much full time player for 5 years.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 26, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think this says more about the Cardinals, and perhaps TLR, than it does Skip Schumaker.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 26, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah Skip seems like a pretty good guy
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 26, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Skip can be a valuable bench player
if he embraces the role, which I’m sure he will. It’s a far cry from Riot’s comments to the media last year after we signed Furcal … “All I know is that we were in first place when I was the SS.” Never would man up and admit that he sucked defensively at short.
"it is what it is" theriot knows this
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Skippy understands his
role the same way most any of us would if we were in his position: “holy shit, i’m making high six figures to hang around in the dugout and take my 12-15 PAs a week,” knowing full well he’d be selling cars otherwise.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 26, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
low seven figures.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 26, 2012 3:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The crazy thing is that major leaguers
in Skip’s position (former starter sent to the bench) have trouble keeping their mouths shut while cashing the checks. Those of us in the real world have trouble making sense of it.
It is troubling to see lack of growth from 2005 as you describe
but all will be resolved within three months. He can’t be optioned out. It is almost a given he will get 200-300 ABs in a row to prove his mettle in the early months. We’ll know by all star break. I hope the team gets him focused on being a good leadoff hitter. More contact, less power. He could be our leadoff hitter for next 6-7 years if he modifies his game. I don’t want to see him there in the first half, but hope by next year he has earned that spot.
Just win
I know what you're saying Duke
but doing the same thing at AAA that he did at short-season A shows quite a bit of growth. He’s still the same player with the same tools and has shown that at every level but the majors. Hopefully he will this year. I’m actually fairly bullish on what we’ll get from Greene this year. It seems to me, regardless of what effect TLR had on him, that Tyler’s head is on straighter this year. And what a positive it could be for this team to have a (potentially) good defensive second baseman with some power and a good deal of speed. A lot of upside there.
I really hope that he did a LOT of work over the winter at 2B.
He looked helplessly lost there last year. Craig and Schumaker looked like much better second basemen, using the ol’ eye test – and they are corner outfielders.
Interesting.
I would like the club and Greene to not try to modify his game at this point. Just use his tools, feel comfortable and play.
Greene strikes out too much to be a leadoff hitter, and given that he’s had contact problems since his college days, I don’t see that changing. Plus I don’t think Greene is going to be doing anything for this club in 6-7 years, when he’s 35.
With Greene’s speed, occasional power, and good walk rate but poor K rate, he’s suited to hit at the bottom of the order. With good defense, and he should certainly have well above average range and arm strength for 2B, he should be a good, still-cheap player for a few years.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Good 6 hitter?
In our opening day order of:
Jay/Furcal
Beltran
Holliday
Berkman
Freese
Greene
Molina
Jay/Furcal
P
He should just hit 8th. He's actually the perfect sort of guy to have in front of the pitcher.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
I would like him 7th.
I know bunts are actually valuable because of how low percentage pitcher hitting is but I think he can move ahead just as effectively stealing and replace the sure out with another low percentage chance to score and a chance to insert a high BA low OBP/SLG hitter like Jay after him before to drive him in before the pitcher gets there. Cleverly enough I’m happy as hell Theriot is gone and Greene takes his job just to be in the lineup anyway but he would be the perfect hitter behind Greene because he fits this profile and works counts which would give Tyler more chances to steal
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 26, 2012 2:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But Jay is not low OBP (.340ish), nor low SLG (.410ish).
Greene would be better off in front of the pitcher so that he might get some benefit of being intentionally walked (better if you’re a high K player like Greene), high-speed players are best in front of singles hitters (like pitchers), Greene could steal second (hopefully) giving the pitcher the opportunity to bunt him over the 3rd or a single scores a run (rather than having the pitcher bunting him over 2nd, which sucks as a play).
Also, Jay should hit in front of Greene because, so far, and according to projections, Jay is the better hitter. Better hitters should get more PAs.
I guess you could alternate them at 7-8 according to pitcher handedness, assuming Jay and Greene themselves would be playing at the same time in that scenario, rather than being platooned. While Craig is out, I’d like to see:
Furcal
Beltran
Holliday
Berkman
Freese
Jay
Molina
Greene
Pitcher
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
I just don't like Greene after Molina
If Molina’s OBP is between .331 (career average) and .349 (last year), then Greene’s speed is potentially wasted over 1/3 of the time.
Ideally, Greene is only at 2B for 2 years max.
Kolten should be a fast riser.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 26, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
I assume Greene moves to SS after Furcal leaves
The bar is so low at 2B, he just has to be competent until Wong is ready
Just win
Perhaps you are right
but I really like that he has great base-stealing chops and that’s where I see him adding the most value for his skill set over the years. I don’t think it is a stretch to see him performing at a high level for 6-7 years which would be great for managing the payroll.
In many ways he looks a lot like Brock. High K rate, great base-stealing speed, questionable defensive skills, and some pop.
Just win
I think it's a stretch in the sense that
he hasn’t shown it for 1 year yet. It will be nice if Tyler Greene pans out the way we hope, but I think folks should kind of back off the expectation that he’ll be really good. Heck, if he has a horrendous ST, he might not even make the team.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 26, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Brock didn't
struggle like this. Sorry, the Brock comparisons aren’t working with me.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 26, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Arguably he struggled much worse
His struggles happened in the ML, not the minors. He had 1000 ABs behind him before he turned it on in STL at 25 years old
Just win
25 years old
vs. 28 years old is a world of difference.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 26, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think anyone is predicting any type of HOF ballot for TG
just that his profile has an upside comp.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 26, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
SBN'd
the rest of my comment was that I think his biggest value add for us would be to become a top of the order base-stealer. He looks to me like an infield version of Lou brock: some pop, high K rate, great base-stealing skills, and questionable defense. Brock also struggled to get going in Chicago in his first attempts at the majors.
Just win
The issue is that base stealing skills are best in front of singles hitters, not middle of the order guys.
OBP is the key at the top of the order. Speed plus OBP is best of course, but pure base stealers with lower OBP should go at the end of the lineup. Because of Greene’s contact problems and K rate, and good but not elite walk rates, I don’t think he’ll ever be a suitable leadoff hitter. Also, the leadoff hitter should (optimally) be one of the team’s best hitters (the best OBP but lowest power among the best three or so hitters) and I don’t think Greene will ever be one of the Cards best three hitters.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
at first I wanted him to hit sixth or seventh, but maybe he’ll get pitched around more in the eighth spot. Get on base and then just distract the shit out of the pitcher.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 26, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I think that's where he ends up in all liklihood
but I think he has the potential to steal 60-70 bases at the top of the lineup and with Beltran in the two-hole, it would give us a lot of speed, a lot of first to thirds, a lot of scoring from first on a double.
I’m not convinced that Furcal is a great number 1 either. We’ll see. Like i said, a lot of this will have played out by all-star break.
Just win
I think you're probably short-changing Furcal.
For his career, he’s been an excellent baserunner (over 300SBs, positive BsR every year of his career). In fact, Furcal has the 5th highest BsR (which measures things like going first-third and first-home) since 2002 among qualified hitters (Beltran is 4th). In that time, and with fewer PAs, Furcal has been better than guys like Ichiro, Carl Crawford and Johnny Damon.
Furcal also doesn’t K very much, has decent walk rates, and switch hits w/ similar, good OBPs from both sides (.345/.349).
To give you two more comps, Furcal has a better career OBP than Jose Reyes and Jimmy Rollins and has been a better baserunner than them according to BsR (on a per-PA basis).
Of course, Furcal is getting older so some of his pure speed is gone, but he is still a very good option at leadoff.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
I could see him leading off someday but now we have too many better hitters
his OBP is not going to be good enough for leadoff in all likelihood
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
He's not a leadoff hitter
He’s always had major contact issues, and his walkrates have varied between “cromulent” and “horrible”. I don’t think a guy who whiffs as often as he does (and who has some actual power) should try to become a contact hitter.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 26, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Ryan Zimmerman just signed a 6 year, $100 million deal
with an option for a 7th year at $24 million.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 26, 2012 10:30 AM EST reply actions
Now I can no longer claim
that Albert still has signed the highest contract by any player still in arbitration.
D’oh.
yeah, that was my impression, too.
I haven’t relooked at his stats yet, but, that seems like a good deal. Its the Holliday deal for a younger, similar batter who plays a premium position at a high level. Right?
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 26, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Nvm.... Matt's a much better hitter
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 26, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
according to B-Ref,
Holliday’s nickname is “Big Daddy”.
Someone (not me) needs to send an email.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 26, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
heh, yeah IIRC it was something from the Rockies
Holliday made a comment about it but didn’t endorse it…. does he know about Lego man, yet?
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 26, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
I doubt it...unless VEB has made it to laptops in the clubhouse.
I remember at one point Mozeilak saying he read VEB.
I don’t care if B-Ref changes the nickname, I just want them to take down “Big Daddy”. That’s a horrible nickname for a ballplayer.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 26, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
lol
I didn’t know Mo said he read VEB, although I kind of assumed.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 26, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
it was a few years ago...
I think he mentioned it during an interview with either VEB or Future Redbirds around the time he was promoted.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 26, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
someone back me up on this..
I’m not crazy, am I?
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 26, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
he acknowledged torty meme in an interview iir
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
oldie ... Matt comments about resigning with the cards in Feb 2010 ST ... at 8:25 min
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
He'll always be the Stillwater Stinger to me
"We're here to defend a championship." - Pumastache
by peppermartin on Feb 26, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Photoshop
One does not simply photograph Lego Man without a hat.
Although it does successfully refrain from showing the top of his head…
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Feb 26, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
I love that I saw tweets
saying that other execs say the Nats have 2 $100 million contracts but no $100 million players. I think it was Heyman.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Not that this deal is really all that bad or that I wouldn't rather have Zimmerman
But don’t the Nats have some big 3B prospect? Perhaps he may get moved?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 26, 2012 10:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Zimmerman will probably get moved to 1st eventually
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
They drafted...
Anthony Rendon last season. There is talk about moving him to 2B and going with Morse, Rendon, Diamond, and Zimmerman in the IF, with Werth, Harper, and a CF with Wilson Ramos catching. Should be a pretty good lineup in 2-3 years with a solid rotation.
Istanbul trip is being pushed back to April because of crap weather and someone is sick
Spending the week in Italy instead! Rome, and Florence?
SIGN ROYO
Rent a car and drive the Italian Riviera to Monaco
"We're here to defend a championship." - Pumastache
by peppermartin on Feb 26, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
I think I'll do Monaco at some point
but I think I’m gonna be around Central Italy for the week
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 26, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I wish I would have explored more in around the city when I was there,
although I was only in seventh grade, so I didn’t control the itinerary.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 26, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Rome is amazing
the Riviera sounds splendid as well.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 26, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Rome is amazing
Florence less so, but still good.
Siena is worth a look.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 26, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed on Rome
Notorious, I stayed at a hostel called the Yellow that was cheap, nice enough (for a hostel), and good for meeting up with other young tourists. You might check it out if you’re going the hosteling route. Any guide book can tell you what to do, so my only recommendation is that you find a restaurant off the beaten path and order the pasta all’ amatriciana.
Florence is a good choice too for a second city. I would say I enjoyed it more than Venice, which is neat just to say you’ve been there, but up close it’s kind of dirty and there’s not much to do.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
Good call on the pasta
If it’s a touristy restaurant there’s a higher chance they’ll give you the “watered down” version which won’t be nearly spicy or salty enough.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Yeah
in all honesty I’d say (as a very rough rule of thumb) somewhere they basically don’t speak any english and which is full of italians is likely to be your best bet.
There’s a very nice restaurant just down from Piazza Navone called Ditirambo – that’s one I’d definitely recommend for a slightly more upmarket dinner. I think you’ll need to book, though. It’s not expensive.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 27, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
I went to this great place in Rome with my family one time
I had been there for a semester and then they all came to visit at the end. My parents had actually done the same abroad program (same college) and had been to Rome a few times already so they were very familiar already.
Anyway, we were having lunch and most of us were ordering pizza to this old Italian gentleman who clearly ran the place and spoke very little English. I ordered bucatini all’amatriciana, and he tried to warn me that it was very strong and spicy. He seemed impressed when I assured him that I knew exactly what it was and it was my favorite.
Then later in the meal my dad ordered some Strega, and that scored all kinds of points with the man. He went into a fifteen minute long explanation/story-telling session explaining the lore on the bottle’s label. It involved witches taking off their clothes and covering themselves in “olio di oliva” and kidnapping young men “in da night!”
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I think the witches also danced around bonfires and cauldrons and things of that nature.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
You could spend a week in Rome easily
Probably could in Florence too if you didn’t rush yourself.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Anyone watch MLB TV on their XBOX?
I bought the offseason package and wanted to try to watch some of last year’s games on there, but now I’m afraid I can’t using that option.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 26, 2012 10:54 AM EST reply actions
can't help you HCL sorry, but i am curious if you got a response from Gibby
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
this sbn app us picky about who I can reply to
but Xbox support is new this year, so no one is going to have experience. its great on ps3, though
by prophetjohn on Feb 26, 2012 12:28 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
contrast with colby's comments ... sometimes it's how you say it and where the focus is
“I’ve felt like I could play at this level. What’s frustrating for me is there were times I’d slip into a funk and I didn’t really get the chance to bounce back from it,” Greene says. “I know myself. I know I can bounce back from something and be back where I’ve always been with my ability and my talent. I know you have to perform. But I also know that I can get to where I need to be. Sometimes not getting that chance was what was most frustrating to me.”
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 10:56 AM EST reply actions
yeah, I'm sure that TG didn't have the easiest of goes in the clubhouse, but the difference in attitude is telling.
I don’t think he is as quirky as BR, but he doesn’t seem to fit the bench player mold of recent years. I’m glad he’s going to get one more shot.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 26, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Greene is also three years older than Rasmus despite being drafted at the same time
So he’s pretty much automatically been more mature at any given time.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
some berk humor for your morning
announcing retirement and explaining what perpetual motion means
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 11:41 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
several funny comments in that interview
i love me some cardinals defending champions berk!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
posted previously but if you would like some more berk ... here is the AWESOME Missouri Athletic Club
Sports Personality of the Year acceptance speech
The one and only Lance Berkman ladies and gentlemen
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
forgot to mention start at about 3:05 min for max berking enjoyment
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I about fell out of my chair
when he wiped his face on the microphone windscreen….
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I hope he goes into broadcasting on retirement.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 26, 2012 3:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
he is a natural, nobody funnier since bob uecker
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
TG's Swing
He doesn’t have the worst swing I’ve seen in the big leagues, but his swing is a bit long. He has the same flaw that Matt Pagnozzi has (had)…
Daddies, don’t teach your kids to pull the knob to the ball.
Boog would have made that play.
by thepainguy on Feb 26, 2012 12:15 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Nice analysis
I thought his swing looked a bit weird. Hope Mac can help straighten him out.
"We're here to defend a championship." - Pumastache
by peppermartin on Feb 26, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
it is his hands that remain the problem
they keep him from getting good extension on a wide range of pitches
12 in 12, thank you very much
Welp, got about 25 comments into yesterday's thread before closing that tab
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Rehashing of Colby vs TLR
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
just went and started reading it
Glad I missed that one. I always feel like a few people are going to stab me when a Rasmus talks come up.
Though this was linked there, at looks very interesting.
Grit != flat out sucking.
That article.....
is an argument I’ve made on this board numerous times. Sometimes a low babib is simply due to a guy not hitting the ball as hard. LD% helps in that analysis, but it certainly isn’t a catch all in that terms.
Yeah, Rasmus seemed (to me) to have quite an odd hitting profile
without looking at his spray chart, he seemed to hit a LOT of line drives for singles and doubles right down the first base line. I’d think it would make a lot of sense to play him with a very heavy shift, and to play the first baseman quite a long way behind the bag. He hits a lot of balls in that area.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 26, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry about all the hockey talk in there.
My fault.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 26, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
it was pretty unbearable
by prophetjohn on Feb 26, 2012 1:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I posted this before, but I'll repost since it's a Tyler Greene thread
2011 Danny Espinosa, 2B
.236/.323/.414 – .325 wOBA
8.7 BB%
25.2 K%
1.0 UZR, 2.9 BsR
3.5 WAR
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Oh Danny Espinosa
i was writing about him before it was cool
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
hipster
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
If Greene can put up 2 WAR
and not make me want to gouge my eyes out when he’s on the field, I would be pleased.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 26, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
I think he might work better at 2b
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
I'll just leave this here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTREIDH2sBk&feature=related
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
And this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzhf99FgucY
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 26, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Now that the big ZiPS spreadsheet is out,
FanGraphs has ZiPS listed per-player now.
ZiPS is by far the most pessimistic on Greene. It’s also the only one that projects him as a full-time player.
G PA HR R SB BB% K% 2012 Bill James 90 271 7 39 16 8.5 % 24.7 % 2012 RotoChamp 174 2 19 11 10.3 % 24.1 % 2012 Fans (10) 96 393 10 49 17 10.7 % 22.9 % 2012 ZiPS 136 509 11 66 22 8.1 % 26.9 % ISO BABIP AVG OBP SLG wOBA 2012 Bill James 0.141 0.316 0.25 0.321 0.391 0.316 2012 RotoChamp 0.08 0.34 0.253 0.356 0.333 0.327 2012 Fans (10) 0.14 0.328 0.265 0.356 0.405 0.344 2012 ZiPS 0.131 0.309 0.233 0.309 0.364 0.305
The BABIP projections a kind of interesting. He’s consistently had a high BABIP in the minors, but has been around .300 in the bigs.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 26, 2012 1:19 PM EST reply actions
If we assume Greene is an above-average 2B
ZiPS is STILL projecting about 2 WAR over the full season. Encouraging.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 26, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I have him penciled in at
500 PA
11 HR
67 R
24 SB
7.6 BB%
25.6 K%
.129 ISO
.248/.320/.377 – .697 OPS
~.312 wOBA?
My, that's a grim walk rate you have there.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 26, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
It sure is...
and I don’t know where the hell I came up with that, looking at his numbers again. I am going to re-look into him and get back to you about a different projection…damn.
OK - I don't know how I had his figured, but here's my new look at Greene
500 PA
11 HR
79 R
28 SB
9.6 BB%
24.4 K%
.146 ISO
.254/.344/.400 – .744 OPS
~.334 wOBA?
That's like a 4.5 WAR player
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I only have it listed as approx. a 1.1 WAR player
And that’s even figuring a league average wOBA of .314. How does that work?
Let's see
(.334-.314)/1.15*500 = 8.7 wRAA
Let’s assume +5 UZR?
+2.5 Positional adjustment
+17 runs replacement level
9+5+2.5+17 = 33.5 RAR. So 4.5 was high, but you gotta add in like 5 runs for baserunning. Somewhere between 3.5 and 4 WAR
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Bookmark
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
That's about what he'll do in the majors, walkrate-wise, I'd say
No way he gets near 10%. If anything, I’d say 7.6% is quite generous.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 27, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Where is his "World Champion" trucker hat?
"Son, what kind of pitch would you like to miss?"
-The Diz
by The Classical on Feb 26, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
wtf was/is up with that selection anyway? not a bad hat but was just was surprised at the look and color scheme
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
This hipster managed to hurt himself in his first bullpen session of ST.
Out until opening day, at least, looks like.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
he can fill in as a roadie for the black keys till he feels better.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 26, 2012 3:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
goddamnit
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 27, 2012 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
Viva El League needs a team
or perhaps, up to 3. I’m waiting for two people to complete the registration, but I know we’ll need at least 1 more team. anyone interested in joining a head to head yahoo league with sabermetric scoring leanings?
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 3:39 PM EST reply actions
I'd love to but I really dunno if I'll have the time this year to give it enough attention
I actually want to try to watch more baseball as well so that’s my priority, time-wise.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 26, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I bared back to 2 fantasy baseball leagues
4 was too much for me last year!
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
I bared back to 2 fantasy baseball leagues
4 was too much for me last year!
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
pared
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Has there been resolution on the Keeper issue yet?
Sign Bubbie Buzachero!
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 26, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
I think we will have them
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome, been looking forward to try my hand at keeper leagues for a while.
Have had a good amount of success in leagues with my friends and family, though I’m always the biggest baseball fan so it’s been more of an expectation for me to win. Curious how I’ll do against those with a similar fan level.
Sign Bubbie Buzachero!
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 26, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
I need to finalize the teams first though
that is the first step. we’re 3 short of 16
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
curious what the price will be for keepers, last years price actually bid on VEL, projected value, free, ???
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
last year's bid
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
awh yeah
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
I may be able to do it
depends on how much time I’ll need to put in.
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 26, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
it's head to head and you change things up once a week pretty much
it’s not too time intensive, but you’ll get more out of it if you don’t ignore it too much
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
I also have no experience in keeper leagues
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 26, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
none needed really
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
cool
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
I just sent you an invite
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
just send me an email on my profile if anyone is interested
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
just curious what categories do you play with
i don’t think i want to join as i am already in a few leagues but what categories do you use that are sabermetric leaning?
it's more of a balance since yahoo doesn't really offer stuff like woba or fip
but I throw in more rate stats, and instead of using w/l for pitchers I use quality starts, which is at least proven to be more accurate for some kind of counting stat relating to starters. I use net saves as a counting stat for the relievers. I like to use OBP instead of BA, OBPagainst, OPS, total bases, stuff like that. it’s by no means as sabermetric as it could be, but yeah, I like to avoid the obvious stuff such as batting average and wins/losses. also, no rbi’s since that is more of a team stat.
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
raises hand for any sort of involvement in any leagues
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 26, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Other interesting projections
Matt Carpenter is projected for a .317 wOBA (which would be a tiny hair’s breadth above average for last season). So, assuming he’s a competent defender at 3B, ZiPS thinks he’s an above-average player right now (i.e. probably not significantly worse than Freese, who’s projected a .320 wOBA, and who I’d assume is pretty similar to MCarp in the field).
He’s also projected a .342 OBP. Given he’s OBP’ed over .400 in the last three years at A+, AA and AAA, that seems utterly reasonable, if not even a bit conservative. I could really see the guy as a (slightly unconventional) leadoff hitter for a team (like the Cards) who have some power in traditionally non-power positions (Beltran and, to a lesser extent, Furcal). I definitely think he should be given a couple of starts a week against right-handed pitchers.
Still bitching to contact.
I agree - he would probably be a great leadoff guy.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 26, 2012 4:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Everything I've read about McCarp is that the Cards see him as the starting 3B in AAA
The impression I get is that they like him a lot, but they don’t want him wasting away on the ML bench. Just my impression, though. I think there’s merit to the idea of him getting full-time work instead of spotty playing time.
that's only going to last as long as cox stays in
Springfield, unless cox or carpenter can convince the club that he makes sense at second or (vis a vis carp) in a super-utility role. Also, if matt were promoted to a bench role, he’d likely only be up until craig came back. Last, carp is older and has had a ton of time in the minors. He needs to prove himself @ the MLB level more than he needs time to show he can still walk at a 15-18 percent rate in memphis.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 26, 2012 9:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
To some extent, but he's 26 this year IIRC
He’s basically entering his peak, and he’s probably as good as he’s likely to get, excepting a little bit of major league polish. If we have him for 6 more years, he’ll be well into his decline phase by the end of that. He needs to play now, even if it is as a backup.
Personally, I’d be shopping Zack Cox this year, especially if he starts the season well in AA.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 27, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
HOLY SHIT JOEL ZUMAYA IS INJURED
In other news, Pope still defecating in forested areas.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 26, 2012 3:48 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
unfortunately for him, his arm agrees
by prophetjohn on Feb 26, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I need to dredge up my Guitar Hero - Zumaya Edition photoshop.
It’s around somewhere… I made it as a “parting gift” for Albert.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Feb 26, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd;
sadly, I have to say there are few pitchers I prefer watching when he’s healthy.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Feb 26, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Heh
One of my favorite VEBisms. Anybody remember the exact origin of that one? I assume it’s a combination of “does a bear shit in the woods?” and “is the pope catholic?” but I have no idea what we were talking about.
Also of interest is that the current pope has a bear on his coat of arms, which means the VEB clearly has both spiritual and worldly authority somehow.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Are you saying that you think VEB came up with the phrase "does the pope shit in the woods?"
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
Well, not really
Since it’s kind of obvious. But at the time I don’t think I had ever heard it before.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I feel like the conversation took place a couple years ago.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I thought the original pope reference involved wearing a pointy hat
"We're here to defend a championship." - Pumastache
by peppermartin on Feb 26, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
now he can go on vacation with Greg Oden and Grady Sizemore
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 26, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
Good thing Mark Mulder is on his way back, though....
Sign Bubbie Buzachero!
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 26, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
Tyler Greene
I wanted him to get a chance last year, but felt he got a decent one. I had seen him play brief in previous years and wanted to see if his bat came around…it didn’t and his D play seemed puzzling at times.
I guess the pressure knowing he had to play flawless to stay is a lot.
I’m not of the mindset he’ll be a stud, but i guess lets see what happens when he feels he has support.
Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman
Greene got 120 PAs, split over three major league stints last year.
I’m not sure that’s what I’d call a decent run. I’m kinda ambivalent on him but given his AAA numbers and very good projections, I think he deserves a good year (say 300-400 PAs) to show what he’s got. He’s been quite slow to adjust to each level he’s played at and we have zero options at 2B who’re likely to be above-average for the next 2-3 years.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 26, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
thanks for the insight on the
“slow” to adjust at each level. I think where i got frustrated last yr as i was waiting fo rhis bat to come around, was his D play. It seemed better in years previous.
However i do agree on the up and down thing and the toll it takes on players. I didnt like how they did that with others in the past was well.
It sounds like he has a positive push behind him this year so he’ll get a shot to really show what he has..
Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman
I just haven't seen Greene play enough to form much of an opinion on him
he has great minor leagues numbers and speed, so that warrants a tryout at 2B. perhaps the change will wake him up a bit and he’ll run with the opportunity. he can’t be worse than schu and I’d rather see Descalso in a utility role since he can play 3b/ss/2b
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 4:03 PM EST reply actions
I kinda like the Greene/Descalso platoon tbh
even though I feel Greene has more upside. Maybe give Tyler one start a week against RHP and every game vs LHP. I guess both Descalso and Greene can get 400+ PA over a full year (given that Furcal is a pretty sure bet to miss some games) with this setup.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 26, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Dirty Dan will be the primary 3B backup as well, so he'll get some time there.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 26, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
As mentioned above
I’m really hoping Matt Carpenter makes the roster, even though he’s positionally limited. I really think when we have a player of that calibre in AAA, someone like Descalso should only play 3B in an emergency.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 26, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Matt Carpenter for second base!
gah, this roster is hard to figure out
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
or first base
if bman goes down before torty’s dad is ready
who? hammie? mote limited than mcarp, so i doubt he makes the 25 man in any case
12 in 12, thank you very much
that a good thing right ... related to the body of your comment vs subject
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
He almost certainly won't.
There’s been some talk of keeping Cox at Springfield initially. Carpenter would start the season at 3rd in Memphis but then transition to a utility role seeing time in the outfield and at 2nd. I think the club is going to try and give him another defensive developmental year.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
I'm gonna throw up if this means alex cora starts
With the mlb team.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 26, 2012 9:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Keep a baggie or trashcan
handy.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 26, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe I'm wrong
but I know there have been public comments about him getting time in the outfield.
My previous comment overstated my certitude though.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
One start a week against RHP?
That might have been the best he could ever expect under TLR, but it seems if you really want to test him he needs to start every day for 3-4 weeks. Make him feel like a regular at least for a little while and see if he settles into a good focus and relaxes. For a guy who’s really facing his last chance with STL, I’d like to see a real trial like that, not bounce him in and out of the lineup all the time.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 26, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
thanks again for the great writing VEB
best sports site on the interwebs!
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 26, 2012 5:19 PM EST reply actions
Out of curiosity
Does anyone have a feeling for how many other teams have a starting 2B or SS projected to have a lower WAR or WAR+ or {insert your favorite metric here} than Greene, or in the case of 2B, Skippy?
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
What are the chances GMDM orders Yost to start Yuni?
More seriously, from an eye test standpoint, it seems UZR greatly overvalues Alexi Casilla and I’d put him in the same category. Same goes for Jason Bartlett. Scratch both of those. Ryan Theriot will be the Giants’ starting shortstop. What?
If you expand the category to include 3B, we suddenly get an all-time baseball conundrum: will it be possible for Miguel Cabrera to be SO bad at defense that he completely negates his offensive value?
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Feb 26, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Thats a LOT of offensive value to negate.
He’d almost have to lineup behind the SS, curl into the fetal position, and cry
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 26, 2012 6:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And your point?
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 26, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Jeff Bagwell agrees.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Feb 26, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he'll get some spot starting at 2nd/3rd/SS this year
But they’re not going to take playing time away from Moustakas, Escobar, or Giavotella/Getz for Yuni.
I doubt he's >15 runs worse at 3B as he is at 1B, which is the positional adjustment from 1B->3B
Plus his arm and actions (he’s got surprisingly good hands) were never the problem, it’s just that he got fat and immobile. If he really has lost the 20-30 pounds they say he has he might not be all that terrible—-the bar isn’t all that high, he has to be -18 to break even.
Not afraid to nitpick
If you go here....
http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=2b&stats=bat&type=rotochamp&team=0&players=0
You can see how Greene stacks up compared to other 2B across the different projection systems (ZiPS, Fans, Rotochamp, Marcel (not up yet).
If we took Rotochamp projections (just to grab an example), Greene at 2B is projected to be better by wOBA than these teams’ starters: A’s, Marlins, Mets, Royals, Rays, Tigers, Cubs, Padres, Twins, White Sox, Astos, Giants, Dodgers, Dbacks (and there may be others, I just stopped counting)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Well, do any of those teams have things that we'd like to trade for?
Because I don’t see TG, Dirty Dan and Skippy occupying more than two spots on the 25-man among them. Seems like there’s a trade just waiting to happen here. But for what?
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 26, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Cliff Pennington bandwagon time.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Feb 26, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Some of those guys that TG is projected to better than are decent prospects so not all those teams would be interested...
like the Astros with Jose Altuve or the A’s with Jemile Weeks.
But in any event, I don’t think TG, DD, or Skip has much trade value at all (they’d have to be packaged with other players or basically dumped). Seems like those three will all be on the 25-man roster though, especially given Skip’s role as the 5th OF and DD’s role as the likely backup 3B.
Basically, even if TG doesn’t win the 2B job, he’ll be the backup at SS. DD will make it as the starting 2B, the platoon 2B, or as an infield utility player. Skippy will make it because he’s Skippy and will at the very least be a backup OF, to Komatsu’s chagrin.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Using the Fans projections at 2B...
Greene is 18th out of 46 2Bmen in projected WAR (2.6 WAR in 351 PAs). Skip is 44th with .2 WAR in 456PAs- actually, by WAR rate, he’s last.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
He's fwustwated
Joe Strauss
Folks used to complain over getting ripped off. Now they complain about what they get for free. #BaseballsMostSelfEntitledFans
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
is he talking about stl fans?!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
i assume so
more venting:
Joe Strauss
Considering Twitter paywall. Free stuff: Cards boilerplate, snark and media appearances. Pay stuff: Cards confidential, Free Money, plus.
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
If #FreeMoney is behind a paywall, is it still free?
/Philosoraptor
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 26, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
if he's calling stl fans #BaseballsMostSelfEntitledFans htf does he have a job tomorrow?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
probably true
also, he didn’t tell anyone to go blank themselves…
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Free stuff?
Articles on stltoday.com aren’t free, advertise pay money. Calling into 101.1 espn and talking to whoever isn’t free, they get ad revenue as well.
Strauss using twitter to direct people to stltoday.com.
Fuck that prick.
Grit != flat out sucking.
wait a minute....
wtf are you talking about? I’ve visited stltoday.com everyday for YEARS and have never paid a dime. Not once. Ever. The shit is free. How can you pretend it’s not?
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 26, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, you've paid...you've paid with the little piece of your soul that died each time you read Burwell.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
i haven't read Burwell in at least 4 years...
and even before that I rarely read him. Can’t stand the guy. I’ll read Strauss, but Burwell is intolerable.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 26, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
i tend to just ignore the trolling but lately he's gotten out of hand
i had to unfollow him during the mizzou game yesterday. he’s overdone the trolling to where its unbearable to read.
I'm glad I finally brightened up.
I followed that jackass on twitter for all of 2010 and part of 2011 spring training. Once Waino got hurt I couldn’t stand the trolling and trash that he was spewing anymore so I unfollowed him and I couldn’t be happier.
"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."
Twitter
by Va Falcon 88 on Feb 26, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
can someone tell me
why mizzou couldn’t beat k-state? was it just a fluke they got swept? i just need to know on my bracket that its an automatic loss if mizzou meets a similar k-state type of basketball team
by guillermozeliak on Feb 27, 2012 2:06 AM EST up reply actions
Mizzou will struggle with
very physically strong rebounding teams that don’t turn the ball over often.
I'm just curious, does anyone have a picture of Strauss? I'm not trying to blackmail him or anything...
But why can’t I find a single picture of him anywhere? I just want to see how he looks like.
By gosh!
by hr on Feb 26, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
This is, like, the 4th Google images result
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
oh, I thought that was the same guy as the texas politician
now I have a face behind the words, thanks
By gosh!
by hr on Feb 26, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
If it helps, he's apparently very short
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Feb 26, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
dood, that's not him - this is strauss
"We're here to defend a championship." - Pumastache
by peppermartin on Feb 26, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Wish I could find that pic of all the sportswriters together in the press box.
Strauss is in front, looking like an idiot.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 26, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
someone has to have saved the strauss pic from last spring training
the person was taking a picture of a bunch of reporters around someone (I think Albert) and Strauss is in the corner looking directly at the camera with the weirdest look.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 26, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
does the word "self-entitled" actually make sense?
Isn’t it just redundant? Isn’t the word just “entitled”? How can you be “entitled” on someone else’s behalf?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 26, 2012 9:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You could feel entitled because you belong to a group
Rather than just because you are so apparently great. The word is poorly constructed as its really more self emphatuated and entitled but since you aren’t naturally entitling others by only thinking highly of yourself it can actually make sense if you want it to
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 27, 2012 9:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
he should be a sportswriter in Chicago
he’d fit right in
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 26, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
YEAH OSCARS WHAT UP
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Ugh...that dress is ug-a-ly.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
any predictions on shoes?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 26, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
No.
Giuliana’s (I thikn I spelled that right, too lazy to check though) dress is gorgeous though.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
is this something that i have like a social obligation to watch
like you should watch the news so that you can have small talk with other people
because i can’t think of anything that i care less about.
Probably just the big awards.
I assume you will not be required to discuss fashion.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
No. No one cares about the oscars or grammies or stuff like that anymore.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I care about the Spirit Awards
#notactuallyahipster
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Feb 26, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think they gave out a Spirit Award at my high school graduation
/have no clue what the Spirit Awards are w/o googling
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
WHY DOES BRADLEY COOPER HAVE A MUSTACHE?
Most upsetting thing I learned today.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Awesome Christopher Walken though
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
But he has a pornstache.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
MEESA JAR JAR BINKS
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi all classic in my book
the new ones, no
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 27, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I see... a nipple.
Boog would have made that play.
Yeah I've been wondering that since I first saw that dress.
I think from another angle it is not but it looks like it.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Weird Feedback Thing
Is it just me of does anyone else hear a phone or keyboard playing whenever someone talks during the Oscars?
Gotta be some weird feedback thing.
Boog would have made that play.
It sounds like a tinny, echo-y sound to me.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Yes
#beeping on Twitter
Doesn’t sound like beeping to me, more like what you say.
Boog would have made that play.
Pulling for The Descendants...
mainly just because the book was written by an alum of my school. Have to say I wasn’t too impressed by the field this year, but Billy Crystal still has it. The only watchable host since the last time he did it was Jackman.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
Another interesting look at catcher defense....
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=16096#commentMessage
The placement of the Three Molinas is interesting…
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 26, 2012 10:10 PM EST reply actions
I love this quote from a recent Poz article -- how is this even possible?
*You might not know this, but when Joe and Phil Niekro turned 40 years old, their career records were shockingly similar:
Phil Niekro: 197-171, .535 win pct.
Joe Niekro: 193-167, .536 win pct.
Phil had been a markedly better pitcher. His ERA+ at that point was a Hall of Fame-worthy 124. Joe’s ERA+ was an exactly-league-average 100. Still, at that point in their careers, their win-loss records were absurdly close. Phil, though, went on to be one of the great old pitchers in baseball history — and he ended up with 318 wins. Joe fizzled out quickly and ended up with a final record of 221-204.
Unrelated — but, like a knuckleball, this post will go all over the place — brothers Gaylord and Jim Perry have a similarly eerie won-loss connection. Jim Perry was older by almost three years. And after the 1975 season …
Jim Perry: 215-174
Gaylord Perry: 216-174
How about that? Again, Gaylord was the clearly better pitcher — a 124 ERA+ to a 106 ERA+, many more strikeouts, fewer walks, fewer home runs per game and so on. Still, for those records of brothers to be almost identical, that’s pretty amazing. Jim Perry retired after that season. Gaylord pitched for another eight years, won almost 100 more games, and went to the Hall of Fame.
Just win
The Sedin twins have always posted remarkably similar point totals in hockey.
Daniel has always been the better goal scorer, but Henrik makes up for it with assists (on Daniel’s goals)
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 26, 2012 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
They're the Stockton and Malone of hockey?
Right down to being identical twins.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Stockon and Malone were two of the dirtiest players in the league.
The Sedins could play with eggs in their pockets and never break a single one.
by openside on Feb 26, 2012 11:41 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
when it's funny, it's funny
@JoeStrauss
Moneyball backers blame snub on “small sample size.”
by prophetjohn on Feb 26, 2012 11:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
if Greene pulls a 2010 Boog & is all glove no bat,, he's going back to Memphis isn't he?
Helloooo,,,, Newman
don't believe he can actually ... isn't he out of options?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 28, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
Greene is out of options. He’d have to clear waivers before getting sent down.
It's Spring Again! ...witch
ya i knew he's out of options, i should have worded that differently
if he can’t his he’s gone right?
Helloooo,,,, Newman
i mean with Albert gone they're looking for O to come from every position now
so if he pulls a Boog he’s not sticking around right?
Helloooo,,,, Newman
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