Molina & the Potential St. Louis Cardinals Backup Catchers Discuss Catching Masks, Etc.
by bgh on Feb 21, 2012 2:16 PM EST
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PrintFor better and worse, the development of smart phones and social media networks has forever changed the nature of reporting from Spring Training. One of the double-edged swords brought about by this revolution in information sharing is the Spring Training pic, often shared via Twitter. The downside of the tweeting of pics from Spring Training has already been memorialized by the creation of a very enjoyable Tumblr, "Bad Spring Training Twitpics." There has been a bit of a TMZ-ification of the coverage from Arizona and Florida, complete with shaky handheld video footage and all-but-indecipherable pics taken by camera phones. That being said, with so many pictures taken by media types, some fun images, however grainy or pixilated, are often captured. One such image, featuring Yadier Molina and the other Cardinals catchers, was tweeted on the Fox Sports Midwest Twitter feed today.
Fox Sports Midwest first tweeted that Molina and the other catchers were discussing catchers masks at length. It then followed up with photographic evidence:
Unfortunately, Fox Sports Midwest did not live-tweet the conversation between the four backstops regarding their tools of ignorance. Through its reptilian Spring Training source, however, we at Viva El Birdos have gotten our hands on a recording of the conversation and transcribed it for our readers.
TONY CRUZ: I like your red mask, Koyie, it's pretty.
BRYAN ANDERSON: Yeah, it really pops against the green fence when you're catching.
YADIER MOLINA: I think you need a navy accent on it, man. In Memphis, the Redbirds' colors are red and navy like the Cardinals. Navy is the predominant road color and red is the predominant home color. That's why I've got navy on mine, see?
KOYIE HILL: I see what yer sayin', Yadi.
MOLINA: That's Senor Molina to you, minor-leaguer.
HILL: What? Yadi, I've caught for years with the Cubs in the big leagues.
MOLINA: Si, I know. As I say, it's "Senor Molina" to you, former-Cub-minor-leaguer. This isn't Chicago. We win here.
HILL: Okay, um, Senor Molina...Do you think I should get some blue on this mask?
MOLINA: Yes, it will look nice with the navy away caps. Unfortunately, we can't get personal designs like hockey goalies. I had originally wanted to get a World Series trophy on mine, but it's not allowed. So I got it tattooed on my throwing arm instead.
ANDERSON: Really? Can we see it?
MOLINA: Sure. Here it is. [Molina lifts up his sleeve to reveal his new tattoo featuring the World Series trophy.]
CRUZ: Whoa, that's radical!
MOLINA: I had my tattoo artist design it. He's the same one that designed my neck tattoos.
CRUZ: Do ya think he'd design one for me?
MOLINA: A neck tattoo? Of course! I'll give you his card.
CRUZ: Thanks!
CHRIS CARPENTER: And if you don't like the design, let me know. My wife designs some really $%^#$@& awesome tattoos.
MOLINA: Ahhh! Carp! C'mon man, you scared me! How long have you been standing there!?
CARPENTER: I've been here the whole time, waiting for one of you $%^#$@& to stop chit-chatting and catch my bullpen session.
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Is he related to the guitarist Buckethead?
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 21, 2012 3:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Haven't guys had catchers masks painted like goalies before?
I could have sworn that was a thing.
This also makes me miss Laird and his old school mask. RIP, separate mask and helmet style.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
I seem to remember such goalie/catcher masks, too, but I couldn't find an image of one.
I know the designs have become more and more plain over the years, which leads me to believe that MLB has started policing the designs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
So, i know it's probably getting old to discuss...
but, why haven’t we signed Oswalt? Seriously VEBers and VEBettes…
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
He's suspect of the offer
Apparently he’s aware that the offer of $5 million and Komatsu means $5 million and a person, not $5 million and a bulldozer.
by TBender on Feb 21, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Injured
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 21, 2012 3:20 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
i know he's had back problems
from the way that teams are dealing with him, it appears that they are afraid of the extent of those problems.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
the cards made him an offer already
so they can’t be too afraid of those back problems. Matty’s right i think, oswalts just trying to wait us or the red sox out.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 21, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
my completely baseless and uninformed guess
is that he figures he doesn’t need all of ST to get ready, so he’s just going to sit tight on the offers he knows he could currently get. If they go up, great. If not, he can reassess later on.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
My guess is that he is waiting for the first of what are sure to be many trips to Cards infirmary. . . .
When the five-man rotation is down to two or three. The the Wizard of Os will become all the more attractive. . .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
Wouldn't be surprised if he pulled a Clemens and joined a team mid-season
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 21, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't Pedro Martinez do the same thing? Maybe no road trips or some such?
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
i was going to post the same question
i know its a tired topic at this point but come on roy… i will forever hold a grudge against the ass hat gordon edes and his “oswalt to cards” tweet which he follows up with an article saying oswalt is leaning towards signing with the cardinals. fail.
Im almost positive I just saw David Freese
Driving next to me on Manchester. Maybe i’m wrong but I was convinced it was him, he had a black BMW with black wheels. Now its gonna bother me, does anyone know if hes in ST yet, bc the guys at work dont seem to believe me and now im doubting myself.
by mick311 on Feb 21, 2012 2:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Baseball America released their Top 100 Prospects...
and 6 Cardinals made the list.
8. Shelby Miller
(ahead of Miller is Harper, Moore, Trout, Darvish, Teheran, Montero, and Profar)
27. Carlos Martinez
74. Oscar Taveras
88. Zach Cox
93. Kolten Wong
94. Tyrell Jenkins
Also, Seedlings to Stars released their Cardinal's prospect list.
I like how they format it (position by position) and the analysis seems pretty in-depth. Not sure how much weight to give sites like this though.
On this site's "Top 100 Prospect Snubs: NL Central"
he lists for the Cardinals:
2B/SS Greg Garcia–Here’s a guy you never hear about. Much like Darwin Perez of the Angels, Garcia is an underrated OBP-oriented middle infielder. He hit .290/.400/.419 in High-A at age 21 (in the FSL, no less), and is a sure-handed defender at second base who can also handle shortstop. However, neither his power nor his speed will excite anyone, so without any upper-minors experience, he can’t be taken that seriously for a top 100 list.
Greg Garcia?
He is probably the reason we drafted Wong
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 21, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
I have heard of him but kept getting him confused with Anthony Garcia for a while.
And then it seemed like Anthony was the more highly regarded Garcia by Cardinals prospect watchers, so I stopped paying attention to Greg. Sorry Greg!
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
i thought garcia and starlin rodriguez both put up interesting lines. i'm not saying
either is a middle infielder of the future, but both put up very good stats at positions that are underrepresented in the org. wong will probably leapfrog both, but i wouldn’t discount the possibility that either could be a utility infielder in the majors.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
Rahmatulla is also very interesting.
Another guy is Colin Walsh. He must be a horrible defender, otherwise I don’t see why he doesn’t get more attention.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 21, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
You're right.
Walsh is a very underwheming defender. He’s a bat without a true position.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Check this out though....
4. Stanford JR 2B Colin Walsh – I wrote before the season that Walsh had a really pretty swing that caused scouts to project more power in his future. The future is now. Walsh’s excellent results on the field have finally caught up to his positive scouting reports. He also has an outstanding glove at second that may actually be good enough to work at shortstop, giving hope that he can be a utility infielder in the mold of Marco Scutaro someday. His offensive progression with Stanford actually reminds me of former Cardinal Cord Phelps, but, and this bears repeating, Walsh’s glove is outstanding. Phelps was a third rounder as a hitter with slightly less college production, a bit more physical projection, and a significantly lesser glove. 2010 is a really strong draft, especially near the top, but I’d still say that comparison bodes well for Walsh come draft day.
http://baseballdraftreport.com/2010/04/29/2010-mlb-draft-top-30-college-second-base-prospects/
Scouts like Walsh’s sweet swing that some project will bring him more power. In the In the field, he is an above average fielder with good range and instincts.
http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/975960.html
Now, does this guy or scout.com know anything? I don’t know. I haven’t seen Walsh play either.
In any event his stats are interesting – more BBs than SOs in his career so far and has suffered from some low BABIPs. Maybe his glove will come around -
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 22, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
rahmatullah was listed last week as on sickles'
Sleeper prospects from rounds 20+ of the 2011 draft.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 22, 2012 1:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought Walsh was basically considered a 1B/DH in future, and he'd be there already if there was a sensible spot for him
Rahmatulla and Garcia are two of my favourite sleeper types. I can’t say I know much of anything about Rodriquez though…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 22, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like Matt Adams being inside the top 100 of these lists is the exception rather than the rule
I could be wrong.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I'm convinced that Matt Adams has fallen victim to a generic white-guy name.
He might benefit from changing it to something more exotic, or at least something using a penis euphemism.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 21, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Mat Adams, perhaps.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 21, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Good idea
Possible new names:
Mathis D’Arnadams
Manthony Andon
Manthony Rizzo
Matt Wheeler
Matty Machado
Matty Banuelos
Mat-Ju Lee
Matt Szczur
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Mateo "Cojones" Adan
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 21, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Mathieu "Goldmember" Van Der Adaams
Come on, baseball
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Feb 21, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Euphemism is clearly the way to go here
Adams can stay generic white-guy and be Rod Adams or something, Ryan Jackson can make the small shift to Ryan Johnson, and Cards fans will be able to contemplate the prospect of announcers fighting not to chuckle while announcing the infield lineup for years into the future.
Are you suggesting Johnson to Wong to Rod
will catch on the way Tinker to Evers to Chance did ?
And what is Cox doing on the 6-4-3 double play – playing with himself ?
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Feb 21, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Johnson to Wong to Rod has a ring to it.
I hear those can be uncomfortable, by the way.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 21, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah but instead of being followed by over a century of losing
Johnson to Wong to Rod will be followed by over a century of #winning
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 21, 2012 5:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe something that rhymes with "hard hittin'?"
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 21, 2012 5:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Somewhat surprised the Jenkins made the list. Wonder where Adams is?
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
Perfect, Willie. My compliments. . .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
From Fangraphs:
Yadier Molina’s Potential Payday and Catcher Aging
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
does the vmart deal offer a possible benchmark for yadi?
(4 years/50M) I know that Vmart is the opposite of molina (a bat first, passable defender) behind the plate, but it is still the high-water mark, outside of Mauer’s contract.
Would you take Molina for 4 years/50M starting next season?
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Feb 21, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't be surprised if the deal is somewhere in the 4-year, $44MM to $50MM range.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That's my thought.
4/48 to 4/52 is where I would be comfortable at, knowing there is going to be no discount. Committing 5+ years seems unlikely for a 30 year old catcher, and he will obviously want to be compensated at the high-water mark for catchers.
I think you could go point for point on offense vs. defense when comparing vmart and yadi and would settle around ‘matching’ his contract.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Feb 21, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think it would be in Yadi's best interests...
to go for a shorter deal this FA in order to setup his next deal. Look how difficult it was for aging catchers (Varitek, Pudge, Bengie Molina) to get a contract that they felt was market value for their skills. Yadi should look into doing a 3 year deal now, and then focus on a 4-5 year deal for his next contract that would probably be for less money per year, but a greater income over the length. If Yadi signs for 4-5 years at 10M per, he is looking at 40-50M of income, and he could maybe get a 1-3 year deal on his next contract for his 35-38 age seasons. If he signs 3 years, for 6M/year (I think that is still a bit high for the age of Yadi at the time), that is another 18M, for a total of 58-68M over 8 years. If he signs a 3 year deal for 12M (36M) and then signs another 3 year deal for 10M (30M), then he possibly signs a 2 year deal for 2M per (4M), that puts him at 70M over the 8 years which would be of better value. I’m not sure if my estimates in terms of contract value are even close to being right, but as a catcher, I think securing a 2M contract for age 37 and 38 seasons is far more likely than signing a 6M contract for his age 36-38 season.
I'm not convinced Yadi will still be in baseball at age 37. Even 35 could be a push, except as maybe a veteran backup.
So I think it’s kinda moot.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 22, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Goold has a good post on Birdland today:
What exactly does a catcher cost these days?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You neglected to mention that the MOZELIAK is an auto-play video that's a super-closeup of the GM.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Happy ZiPS day!
Temp page for big ZiPS spreadsheets while Dan gets some things straightened out at BBTF.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 21, 2012 4:39 PM EST reply actions
How does Thome still project for a 123 OPS+
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Because Thome?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 21, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he was better than that last year
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 21, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
So are we finally going to get to see "slugging Ichiro" this year?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I read on Twitter that he's going to be batting third in the Seattle lineup.
I think you’d probably have more insight that any of us.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Well he's batting third and using a wider stance
This could be pretty awesome
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Does he really
jack dongs in BP like everyone says he does?
Why doesn’t he do that in games?
halfway through it I thought, "this is a really nerdy thing I'm posting." but I just had to power through to the end.
Danup
He does, yeah
Because he’s stubborn and thinks it’s barbaric and thinks it’s more of an art to hit for a high average
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
It will be interesting to see.
Figgins is being handed the keys to the leadoff spot and will be the everyday third baseman. Ichiro is coming off a miserable season (negative bWAR!!) and has more to prove than at any time since his rookie year of 2001.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Feb 21, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Still hard to see the wisdom of giving Figgins more at bats than Ichiro. . .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
He's gonna hit 40 home runs!
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 21, 2012 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
Because up until now, Ichiro's pretty much had a monopoly on being the badass asian sports dude
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 21, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yao Ming would like a word with you
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 21, 2012 6:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh yeah, I forgot about that guy!
He’s been injured a lot, though.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 21, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Kolten Wong: Shortstop?
Third base and infield coach Jose Oquendo spent some extended time working with young infielders Kolten Wong, Pete Kozma and Ryan Jackson on a side field this morning. The focus of the session was making feeds to second to begin a double play.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Oh maybe she means the actual base, not the position
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I don't read it that way.
They were probably taking turns working on feeds to the second base bag for double plays. Wong to Jackson and Jackson to Wong with Kozma present because no one had the heart to tell him he wasn’t going to play in the big leagues.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
By gosh, I do read it that way!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Poor Kozma
needs Wong help to make it to second base
This discussion is obviously legit
I love it
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 21, 2012 5:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Interesting
From Langosch:
The Cardinals recently extended their baseball analytics licensing deal with TruMedia Networks, which will provide the baseball operations department with pitch-by-pitch video analysis all season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Not me certainly, but I did see this weird little quote from that story
As part of the announcement, TruMedia says they plan to roll out a pitch analysis Brad Penny soon in order to demonstrate the analytic technique used.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 21, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Penny = yen to play in Japan. . . TruMedia work there?
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
I'm telling you...These lists love Bundy
He’s never thrown a professional pitch!
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 21, 2012 7:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This sounds surprisingly familiar:
Molina won’t negotiate during the season.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
oh what the hell...
Just days ago the story was he was fine with negotiating in season
Might as well start talking about “respect”
ugh
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 21, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
The Fangraphs article today changed my mind.
5/55…DO IT MO!
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 21, 2012 7:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, and Ryan Campbell probably ruined a cheaper deal for us
He has already stated that he isn’t willing to take a hometown discount, but maybe the Cardinals will be able to exploit a catcher discount.
(My emphasis)
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 22, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Next it will come out
that he wants to play until he’s 40 and he wants to be the highest paid catcher of all-time.
/half-serious.
he's listening to albert...
cue him signing with the angels next year.
by zoomzoomj88 on Feb 21, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
THE SPORT IN WHICH A BARSMAN STANDS AT HOME WAITING TO SWING AT A BALL THROWN TOWARDS HIM!
BASEBALL!!!!!’
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 21, 2012 7:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Amit
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 21, 2012 7:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Dammit
BATSMAN!
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 21, 2012 7:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
NANNAANNNANANNNANAANANNANANANANNANANANANNANANANANNAANA
BATSMAN!
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
Really?
Then Felonious went waaaay over budget.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 22, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
let him (molina) find out what its like
playing somewhere else. trade him now to the astros or some other god forsaken franchise. if we are not going to have him next year might as well get something for him. frees up room for oswalt.
by setitan on Feb 21, 2012 7:35 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Than who in the world is the stating catcher in 2012
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 21, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Was just about to post the same thing.
You were quicker, however.
Sign Bubbie Buzachero!
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 21, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
same one that starts next year when he is gone
by setitan on Feb 21, 2012 7:40 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Skip?
His total lack of range wouldn’t be so bad there, and he probably has the arm and bat for catcher
Of course, there’s the whole calling the game aspect…
Schumaker also has stone hands.
I suspect he’d make a horrible receiver of pitches.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This seems like an overreaction to me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 21, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
disagree.
if mo can’t sign him now, let’s prepare for the future and control our own destiny. don’t repeat pujols crap from last year.
by setitan on Feb 21, 2012 7:51 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
With Holliday, Carpenter, Berkman, Beltran, and Furcal, the Cardinals are built to win now.
Trading Molina right now would doubtlessly bring back pennies on the dollar and would leave the team with a huge hole at catcher. Allowing Pujols to hand around last season worked out pretty well what with that whole World Series victory and all. The Cardinals may run the same playbook with Molina and I wouldn’t blame them. Right now, Molina’s value is likely the highest it will ever be. Letting him play 2012 and then re-engaging could very well lower his asking price after his offensive numbers come back down to around his career averages.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i am sick of seeing "please stay" signs
sign him now or trade him. worth more now than in july.
by setitan on Feb 21, 2012 8:00 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
What catcher are you going to trade him for? Montero?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 21, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Putting your personal preferences regarding signage aside,
the best thing for the Cardinals to do is to let him play 2012 for the Cardinals. There is no one in the system who could replace his offense and defense at the position this season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
actually, that's not neccesarily true
in July, teams know where they’re playoff odds are and individual wins are more important than in the beginning of the year. So we could actually get a comparable amount if we traded Yadier midseason, I believe.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 21, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, wouldn't it be great if we traded Albert and then not won the world series?
Leave favorite memories of Jim Edmonds here
whoops. obviously meant to reply to setitan.
And now I see bgh said this. And Fritz. I’m going back in my hole now.
Leave favorite memories of Jim Edmonds here
"Trading Molina now would bring back pennies on the dollar"
What? Dude hit .305/.349/.465 last year and is definitely considered an elite defensive catcher. Players like that almost never hit the trade market – we’d get back a shit load if we traded a full season of Yadier.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 21, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
I meant it in terms of 2012.
We’re geared to win right now. Trading Molina would open up a big hole at catcher. There’s no reason to do so because we stand a good chance at making the postseason. Trading Yadier would likely hurt those chances.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
of course
but you have to weight that against future playoff odds. I agree with you, but I wouldn’t dismiss the trading Yadi now option.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 22, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Either way, I think you'd have to let the season play itself out until the deadline.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Agreed
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 23, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
Or we could just let him play out his contract, get the benefit of this year (and we need him)
And then, if he has a great year but doesn’t want to sign a reasonable deal, we can offer him arbitration. That’s what we call the ol’ “win-win.”
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 21, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
With new CBA
We’d have to offer him a $12.5M deal to get a pick
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 21, 2012 9:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i'd take yadi on a one-year $12.5m deal.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
I think Yadi gets 5 guaranteed years on the open market.
And I certainly wouldn’t mind if it came from the Cardinals, even if it approached $60 million
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 21, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
you don't think oswalt can play catcher?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 21, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
relevant.
Let me tell you something. Tuesday, February [21st], wherever the fuck you all are, will be just another gray, dreary, sorry-ass, fucked-up Tuesday. But down here, it’ll be Mardi Gras.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
Wooooooooooooooooooooooo! Look!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 21, 2012 9:18 PM EST reply actions
Strauss totally omits McGee's involvement in the '82 WS
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 22, 2012 8:11 AM EST up reply actions
Awesome.
Reminds me of my favorite moment of Spring Training 2006, we were watching the workouts and here comes a golf cart onto one of the fields, carrying Willie, Yadi and Rick Ankiel. So much fun watching McGee throwing BP to those two.
BTW, the sound of the ball off the bats of the two guys could not be more different. Yadi’s made a thud, Ank’s made an ear-splitting crack.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 22, 2012 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
prospect people
do you know anything about Adam Erlich?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
He was generally seen as a sleeper catcher prospect
That’s all I really know
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
he went to my high school
and all the reports i’ve read about him say he could be an elite defender. I guess he hasn’t had enough experience yet to tell much about his future.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 21, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
heh, Jesse Behr went to my school also
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 22, 2012 2:45 AM EST up reply actions
Who are the top-rated catching prospect in the minors? Any chance of going after one of them?
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
Devin Mesoraco, Jesus Montero (kind of) and Travis D'Arnaud are the top ones
Mesoraco isn’t going anywhere, especially not in the division, and is likely to start next year in the majors. Montero is definitely not going either. D’Arnaud might be bought, for a hefty hefty sum. Maybe like a Carlos Martinez and another useful piece.
by purple_haze on Feb 21, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
That would be a very, very heavy price. D'Arnaud that good?
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
supposed to be
but you have to also consider, D’Arnaud is considered ML ready while Martinez is at minimum a year away.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
How'd your mom like the turtle place.
Never been there as of yet, but the wife has traveled there a few times with her sister.
by Tuning in from Korea on Feb 21, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Well,
d’Arnaud maybe since TOR has Arrencrbia, but d’Arnaud may be the better player so maybe one of then would be available. Outside if that I don’t see why any of the other teams would want to move any of the top rated guys…
Theres Rosario, but COL just traded Ianetta. CIN had two really good prospects (Grandal/Mesoraco) but traded Grandal to SD in the Latos deal. There may be others but those are some of the top guys off of my head. TOR seems to be the only team I can think of with a solid prospect that already has a decent catcher.
by mick311 on Feb 21, 2012 10:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
it's happening
this is crazy
and yet i still don’t know how to “star” something on my google maps on my blackbery
by guillermozeliak on Feb 21, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
/Head explodes
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 22, 2012 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
Adieu forever,
safe driving. At least until robot-driven cars are standard.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I find it happens typically when there isn't a regular post
Or the cards are in a major slump
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 21, 2012 11:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Am I the only one who misses Yadi in red gear when away?
Also, LaRue in G1Optimus Prime gear always gave me a chuckle.
by openside on Feb 21, 2012 11:22 PM EST via Android app reply actions
more than meets the eye?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 22, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
The way this team is set up for the future, I see no harm in giving Yadi a big deal.
He’s important to the pitching staff. He’s amazing defensively. He completely shuts down the running game. His offensive production is solid for a catcher. All that being said…
What else do we need the money for?
2B, SS, and 3B seem like they’ll be taken care of long-term with some sort of combination of Freese, Carpenter, Cox, Jackson, Greene, Wong, and Descalso. Left field is Holliday’s for several more years. 1B seems under control between Craig and Adams. CF and RF can be filled with Jay, Tavaras, and maybe Craig. SP’s are well stocked with Garcia, Miller, Lynn, Martinez, Jenkins, Cleto, Kelly and Waino (even with a shiny new contract). The bullpen seems to have a bright future with Motte, Salas, Sanchez, Lynn, Swagerty, Boggs, Cleto, Kelly, Reifer all in the mix. The thing we’ll most likely need is an OF’er.
Obviously not all of the above players will pan out the way we hope, but most have a pretty solid chance. I just don’t see where else the Cardinals are definitely going to need to spend long term money other than catcher (and Wainwright).
As baseball obsessed people we often want to pay players only what they are worth (for example, we’ve seen lots of 4 year, $40 million suggestions for Yadi), but that isn’t always an option when they are staring free agency in the face (Albert). I think Yadi brings a lot more to the table than his 3-4 WAR suggests Obviously there has to be a limit to how much you can pay for a player (Albert, again), but you can’t always hold such a firm stance when you are talking about $1-2 million per season for a player who is obviously extremely important to the team. Especially when the difference means just having an extra garbage player or 2 (Skip, K-Mac). Yadi and Albert’s situations are completely different. $220 million would’ve crippled us for several seasons. a 5 year $55-$65 million contract for Yadi won’t cripple us at all and will assure that our pitching staff is in good hands for years to come, which will be important with all these young guys coming along.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 22, 2012 12:22 AM EST reply actions
Oh and also...
His legs are not going to fall off in the next 5 years…
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 22, 2012 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Catchers don't age well
I’m not saying that Yadi will decline sharply in the next five years, but I would say that historical prcedent for catchers will say that its more likely than not. That’s not to say that he may turn out to be Carlton Fisk, but that’s probably what it would take.
Even someone like I-Rod turned from absurd to merely a good catcher as he went past 30.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I don't think this actually true. Ivan is not the best example either, mainly because his problem came when he got off the roids.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 22, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
Name me some catchers playing into their 30s
With a few notable HOF-level exceptions, they are all in a pretty steep decline or not playing catcher anymore.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Uh, it's called survivor bias. Also, most all players are in pretty steep decline or are not playing past 35.
Also, studies like this one indicate that catchers don’t age worse than other players and may in fact age better (which makes sense even intuitively, among other reasons, because declining speed doesn’t really hinder them playing defense).
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/yadier-molinas-potential-payday-and-catcher-aging/
It’s pretty easy to name catchers that play into their 30’s. Jose Molina had his best year by fWAR at age 36. Bengie Molina had his best year by fWAR at age 34.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 22, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
That was a good article, but two things stand out
“In this sample, it is worth mentioning that some of the players did not catch during their decline phase.”
Yadi can’t do anything but catch, and maybe be a minus-15 1B. This sample, which includes people like Biggio, is probably not representative of the Yadi’s of the world.
“runs are scaled to production per 600 PA. This means the curve does not account for playing time.”
And here, the plane crashes into the mountain. He tries to mitigate this issue by showing that his sample (of 70 players over ~30 years), whom he picked using playing time as a catcher as, apparently, the only criteria, didn’t on average see a steep decline in playing time as a catcher. That makes my head hurt.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
I put together a saturday post a couple weeks back
Looking at the catchers who’d gotten the biggest contracts in recent history. Most of them stopped catching 1000 innings a year around age 36. A 4-year contract for yadi seems relatively safe; a 5-year contract is pushing it. Anything beyond 5 years seems like a terriible idea.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 23, 2012 3:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
As to your first point, I think that's good for Yadi and the Cards.
His defensive chops at catcher are so good that he should be able to play there longer, even with some age-related decline. There is certainly no evidence here that defense-first catchers decline more quickly. I would hypothesize the opposite, actually.
As for your last point, I’m not sure it makes any difference. The runs are scaled to 600 PA for non-catchers as well, and on average, all players’ playing time is going to decrease as they get older.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 23, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
No one is suggesting signing him past age 35.
That seems to be the breaking point for elite catchers.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 22, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
David Freese's triple was the best thing I've ever seen...
Or maybe Wainwright’s curveball to Beltran.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 22, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
I like that somebody made a video of it with all the special effects added in.
That’s one hell of a good deed.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 22, 2012 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
I have dropped deuces more entertaining than that
I once pooped and it made a shape of a heart
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 22, 2012 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This kid is breaking down all my preconceived notions of possibility/impossibility.
/mind: blown.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 22, 2012 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
Wait. Did that kid really just go Super Saiyan?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 22, 2012 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
hahaa half the people on here
have never seen that movie
by guillermozeliak on Feb 22, 2012 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
lemme fix that for you.....
half the people on here weren’t born when that came out.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
you could put two of him in modern day jack donaghy-alec baldwin.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 22, 2012 1:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Classic!!!
Love that movie!!!
by McLaughlin_Stole_My_Beer on Feb 22, 2012 1:46 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
NICE FUCKIN' MODEL!
There was a ton of stuff I didn’t get as a kid.
by openside on Feb 22, 2012 1:51 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Oooh, thanks
for re-igniting my crush on Geena Davis.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 22, 2012 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe we could sign her to catch if Yadi leaves
There’s no crying birds in baseball
Is that Robin Sherbotski
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
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