Poised for Success: 2012 and Beyond
by azruavatar on Feb 20, 2012 6:00 AM EST
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PrintWhen the Cardinals won the World Series in 2006, it was a team that had been retooled for the playoffs after a thoroughly mediocre season. The 2006 Cardinals were not world beaters. They were not the offensive juggernaut of 2004 or 2005. There was no MV3 for the 2006 Cardinals. Yet they won nonetheless. The questions entering their 2007 season hadn't been answered in any tangible way by the unlikely World Series victory. The Cardinals would finish in third place that season in the Central Division with a sub-.500 record.
That Cardinals club had significant multi-year commitments to players as well. Albert Pujols, Scott Rolen, Jim Edmonds, Chris Carpenter, Jason Isrighuasen, Mark Mulder and Juan Encarnacion all had multiple years left after 2006. In some cases, that was because of Walt Jocketty's ill-conceived notions of contractual loyalty (e.g. extending Jim Edmonds in November of 2006). There was another problem that the club was attempting to address at the same time as well. The farm system, which had been used heavily to acquire veteran players, was largely bereft of talent in 2005. Entering 2007, things had started to change.
In Baseball America's 2007 Prospect Handbook, the Cardinals top 10 was young. Or at least very new to the system. The farm was empty of high level elite talent and it showed. Take a look:
| Player | Year Drafted |
| Colby Rasmus | 2005 |
| Jaime Garcia | 2005 |
| Chris Perez | 2006 |
| Blake Hawksworth | 2001 |
| Jon Jay | 2006 |
| Bryan Anderson | 2005 |
| Adam Ottavino | 2006 |
| Mark McCormick | 2005 |
| Josh Kinney | 2001 (Not Drafted) |
| Daryl Jones | 2005 |
While that is a good stable of talent, four of those players have gone on to hold down starting positions or prominent roles, it was also a group of players that would take several years to mature. Contrast that with where the Cardinals are at now.
| Player | Year Acquired |
| Shelby Miller | 2009 |
| Carlos Martinez | 2010 |
| Oscar Taveras | 2008 |
| Zack Cox | 2010 |
| Kolten Wong | 2011 |
| Tyrell Jenkins | 2010 |
| Lance Lynn | 2008 |
| Eduardo Sanchez | 2005 |
| Matt Adams | 2009 |
| Jordan Swagerty | 2010 |
Things have changed since 2007. The Cardinals have built up their presence in Latin America and international signings (Martinez, Taveras, Sanchez) are a different type of arrangement than a drafted American player. With that caveat, the Cardinals have 5 of their top 10 players acquired in the last 2 years. In 2007, it had been 8 of 10 and the other pair were relievers.
You can look at it by the stratification of talent through the minor league levels as well. In 2007, the Cardinals primary prospects played in the low minors. Entering 2012, that's no longer the case. There's a diversity of levels with representatives from the low-A Quad Cities all the way through AAA Memphis. It's a system that is poised for some immediate dividends (Lynn, Sanchez), some medium term yields (Miller, Cox, Adams, Swagerty) and some that are longer term (Martinez, Taveras, Wong, Jenkins).
I've alluded to the other aspect of the St. Louis Cardinals that is somewhat compelling when wishcasting the future: limited long term contractual obligations. In two years, the Cardinals will have obligations remaining with two players (Matt Holliday and Jaime Garcia) amounting to nearly $25M. Contrast that to the 2011 NL team that won the most regular season games, the Philidelphia Phillies. Here is an example of how to create inflexibility in your payroll.
| Player Name | Contract |
| Ryan Howard | $25M |
| Cliff Lee | $25M |
| Jonathan Papelbon | $13M |
In 2014, The Phillies already have $63M on the books committed to 3 players. Setting aside the relative value of these players, that is a staggering sum of money. It is more than the entire payroll of six teams from 2012. It is over 40% of the Phillies 2012 payroll. There are only 4 teams that have more on the books for 2014: Boston Red Sox, Los Angeles Angels, Detroit Tigers and New York Yankees. The commitments by the other clubs are representative of 6, 5, 4 and 4 player's salaries respectively. Should the Phillies exercise their option on Roy Halladay, they would jump to $83M and third place in 2014 commitments.
And yet, this isn't about how poorly the Phillies are being run -- though if you want to take that message to heart, I'm okay with that -- but rather that the Cardinals have a wealth of opportunities in front of them. With just $25M in commitments, the Cardinals have around 75% of their payroll to adapt to future needs. That may be commitments to Adam Wainwright and Yadier Molina or it may be the acquisition of another star outfielder. The Cardinals have options.
St. Louis has been spoiled in the last 5 years by two unexpected World Series. And yet, the club is poised to potentially do big things. How many other teams can boast the following: a $100M payroll, limited long term commitments and a healthy if not thriving farm system. Go ahead and take a look for yourself. Is there a team that has positioned itself better than the Cardinals? There's an argument for Tampa Bay and for the Texas Rangers but is it a significant gap with where the Cardinals find themselves right now?
I've argued before that the Cardinals strike me as a team without a vision. I'm not sure my opinion of that has dramatically changed less I give you the wrong impression. They seem to be seizing on some current market inefficiencies to sign old/injured players who still have something left to offer the game of baseball. They've built a healthy farm system but from a comprehensive, forward looking perspective, I'm still tepid to the idea that the Cardinals have a grand vision. Maybe that's okay. If 2006 and 2011 can result without a club ideology, than perhaps a comprehensive vision is of questionable value. Tampa Bay, who would be my poster child for a club with a grand vision, may argue differently. Five years from now, the Houston Astros may argue differently.
Nothing is certain. Surely the improbable 2006 and 2011 World Series runs have shown that to us. Yet the Cardinals have positioned themselves admirably, whether by luck or by merit I cannot say. They can make the case as the best NL Central Division club on paper entering 2012. Perhaps more importantly, they can make the case for a healthy organization in the future.
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The big void is catcher...
…Nothing on the farm and Molina 50/50 on a return. Money is there for Napoli.
by RedAllOver on Feb 20, 2012 6:55 AM EST via mobile reply actions
At least he's honest about it being about $$
In that sense, the FO knows where he stands and what he’s looking for. It ought to make things a little easier in terms of clarity during negotiations.
I'll keep beating the drum
It’s not a lack of honesty, it’s just standard issue PR.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 20, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
and, I would also expect, that
most professional athletes view interacting with the media more as a mostly pointless chore they have to get through rather than a frank and open discourse that merits serious thought and consideration.
a la Don Carmen
I’m just glad to be here. I just want to help the club any way I can.
Baseball’s a funny game
I didn’t have my good stuff, but I battled them
This team seems ready to gel
I couldn’t have done it without my teammates
Standard issue PR
is to say what, exactly? “No Comment?”
It just seems to me that, generally speaking, when talking about upcoming contracts, the fans/public have more respect for the player who says “I like it here, but this is a business, and if we reach an agreement in terms of money, then I’ll be here, and if not, I won’t” as opposed to the one who constantly says the things mentioned right above (a la Don Carmen).
i'm pretty sure dewitt and mo knew it was about the money w/ ap ... especially after lazono told them the
starting price for negotiations
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn't actually trying to make a commentay on AP
But I guess it came across that way after reading it.
Mostly I was just saying that with Molina saying “if the money is there, I’ll take it, and if not, I’ll leave,” then the negotiations should (in theory) be easier – everyone knows where everyone else is standing, so to speak. They’ll make him a competitive offer and that will be that.
understood, and think his approach is the best, much like berkman's, frank and to the point while making it known
he would like to stay but it’s business
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
It surprises me that more athletes don't take this approach...
or at least the more high-profile athletes anyway. I’m sure there are a good number of low-profile athletes that do this and we never hear about it.
i thought the miami offer
would net him more cash?
and he chose angels because of post career perks or somethin
pujols shouldve taken the aformentioned comments and not say stuff about staying with a winning team
this is my last post about pujols forever
by guillermozeliak on Feb 20, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, miami was nowhere close, in real money
I’m increasingly convinced, especially after seeing that interview today, that he really wanted to live in LA (and I can’t blame him for that!), and all the noise about negotiations was just Albert holding out until the new LAA TV deal was finalized to make his decision.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
I agree with this
at least he’s up front about it and not spewing out a bunch of bullshit about "why would I leave this town for an extra “X” amount of dollars"
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 20, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
I wasnt around yesterday...
…I have a feeling that Tony Cruz has a decent shot of being a league average catcher. Beyond that the Anderson / Cruz platoon might have a shot of being above average in that they will have less innings on there knees and relatively fresher throughout the year.
If the situation arises…Mo should not be afraid to trade Yadi.
At 21 years old and only 222 professional PA's
I think long term is appropriate.
"They just won't go away"
Bilingual Twitter
He was also an advanced college hitter
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 20, 2012 10:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree.
This particular Wong is more of a show-er than a grow-er.
by openside on Feb 20, 2012 10:08 AM EST via Android app up reply actions 10 recs
Oh wow
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
twss
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 20, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
nudge nudge, wink wink
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I like to play the long Wong game.
(/Aranathor)
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Happy Presidents Day
Did you know….
Lincoln was granted a patent on a device that lifts boats over shoals. He is the only president ever to hold a patent.
Washington built a whisky distillery after retiring as President. It was one of the biggest in the U.S. at the time.
Like the way the Redbirds are set up for the next couple of years. They have raised my hopes for a strong run back to the playoffs. Which is a frightening prospect, because their last two WS titles came after I and most other reasonable people had just about given up hope, while their last few disappointments (’09, ’05, ’04) came when hopes were high for better things.
something is happening here but you don't know what it is
by Cha-Cha on Feb 20, 2012 7:32 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I knew the one about Washington's distillery!
They’ve recently rebuilt it at Mount Vernon.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Washington a driving force for the new constitution,. Under Articles of Confederation, states taxed imports from other states.
By the time Washington’s booze reached end designations in Georgia and Massachusetts, the price was prohibitive. He wanted to change that taxation provision.
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
Good on him
The articles had tons of problems
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
i knew the one about lincoln, was during the years when steamships moved virtually all commerce
he even had a model built photo and short note here
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
that model
is way cool
something is happening here but you don't know what it is
Presidents Day fact
George HW Bush holds the record for skydiving presidents with 5 jumps (not including when he bailed out of his TBF Avenger after being shot down over Chichi Jima in 1945)
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 20, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
BASEBALL!!
So, here’s my question for VEB today:
Who will we miss the most going forward?
a) Pujols
b) La Russa
c) Lunhow
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
d) Dave McKay's backrubs
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 20, 2012 8:10 AM EST up reply actions
its funny cause an 'e' was the most likely thing to appear next to Theriot's name on a boxscore.
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
by Aranathor on Feb 20, 2012 8:25 AM EST up reply actions 18 recs
Pujols
I think we’ll miss one of the very best players of all time the most.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
La Russa is
one of the very best managers of all time though
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
and he will be missed and foundly remembered by most
however; fans go to games to seem players play, not managers manage.
Grit != flat out sucking.
I'd also say that all-time great players have a far greater impact than all-time great managers.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
agreed
I’d say that fringe all-star players have a greater impact than all-time great managers.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Yes.
Typically, managers get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah
Tony probably didn’t add an average of 8 theoretical marginal wins to our team per year.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Does that make him worth 8 WAR?
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Feb 20, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
eh, probably not anymore
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Why does everyone seem to misspell Luhnow's name?
It’s not just you, Oedipa, it’s like half the people on here.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's so the other half can feel superior.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, well then, thanks!
Because it works!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Jeph can be confusing to spell.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Easily Pujols
However, I won’t miss constantly rooting for him to stay at an 8 WAR standard because I want him to stay all-time levels. Like it’s ridiculous how I would get mad when he’d go a WHOLE game without walking cause I wanted him to get back to his career levels.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Feb 20, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
That gave me a lot of anxiety in 2011
So I know where you’re coming from. I still want him to be that guy forever, but I don’t care as much about it as I used to.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
You asked for it...
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by SheckieZx on Feb 20, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Corey Patterson
photobombing extraordinaire
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
Corey Patterson really is a ridiculously good-looking man.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
he's got that half black thing
versatile.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Comps include Derek Jeter, Grant Hill, and Lenny Kravitz
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 20, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
A little too smug if you ask me.
Handsome or not, you’re still Corey Patterson, sir!
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Feb 20, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
...professional baseball player and former 5 WARer
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
5 WARrior?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 20, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I refuse to believe fangraphs for that season.
I’ll give him B-ref’s 3.5.
Putting up -0.4 bWAR in just 56 PAs for us last season is probably his most impressive achievement thus far.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
you don't him joker
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
in terms of wins per dollar, probably Luhnow
in terms of fandom, pujols.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
More WAR in 2012
Holliday or Wainwright?
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
holliwright
something is happening here but you don't know what it is
wainidays and mondays always bwing me down
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 20, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 10 recs
holliday
a 2 WAR difference wouldn’t surprise me.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 20, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
yeah
as much because I expect Holliday to have a huge year as because I expect Waino to be somewhat limited
i expect holliday to post 6-7 WAR; i think this might be his best year as a cardinal
that said, that’s still 4-5 WAR for waino, which i would take in a heartbeat.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 20, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Why is everyone expecting such a monster year from holliday?
by Cheeseballs on Feb 20, 2012 12:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If you prorate his 5.0 WAR from last season to a full season, that's a 6.5 WAR year
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Because he missed a lot of time due to injury last season and still had a 5.0-WAR season.
Holliday had a monster year in 2010. Sure, he’s aged a bit, but he’s still in good shape and ought to be quite good.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
why not?
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
when you see a certain thing happen over and over you tend to expect it to happen again the next time
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
because he fucking rules.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 20, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Waino
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think the vision is,
and ought to be, “win games.” And as we’ve seen there are many ways to go about that. El Birdos are in a great position to go in one of several directions as needed.
I believe the issue you have with vision is the conventional wisdom in your head
Concentuonal wisdom says that to be great at something you have to pour yourself into it and if you aren’t trying to “win now” while punching the farm dry in a window or “rebuilding” and sacrificing major league wins for future ones. This would be true if you had an allotted amount of success to place anywhere like an country only has so many armies, but if you can grow your overall success by managing two fronts well then you don’t have to pick a side. Winning in the bigs now and having a good farm system doesn’t have to come from years of losing and building the farm like the rays. It can come from smart drafting, good management of ML players, heavy graduation of system role players to fill holes and save money that can be spent on big talent, and recognizing market deficiencies. Every plan needs some amount of luck, the Cardinals have been a little lucky, but we’ve also been well managed
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 20, 2012 9:26 AM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Can't REC on blackberry
So I’ll type.
I agree, essentially, with everything you’ve said here. I think that just because they haven’t shared the vision with the public or that people here don’t see it doesn’t mean that there is a lack of vision. The team has continually put a good product on the field for a decade and a half in a variety of ways, while growing the farm system throughout the current administration’s tenure.
by stlfan on Feb 20, 2012 10:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think use of the
word vision is misleading because all MLB teams have the same vision. What we’re talking about here is more a matter of grand strategy, i.e., the way we pursue our vision.
I agree with you that winning now and having a good farm system can both be accomplished simultaneously. The real key to getting that right is being willing to let valuable players walk away at the right time, thus freeing resources that can be applied to both farm development and major-league salaries. The 2012 Cardinals are a huge experiment in that, having let the biggest of the big stars walk away.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 20, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
In the last 5 or 6 seasons, quite crucially, I'd say we've done one thing very well:
Avoided catastrophic decisions. We haven’t signed a Soriano or Howard-type contract, and we haven’t made any really bad trades, and we’ve not had a truly barren draft. Those are the things that can destroy an org’s competitiveness for a year or two, and as long as you can progress by mixing some good moves in with some cromulent ones, but avoiding the really bad ones, I think you can stay competitive, permanently, with a middling budget.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
What's interesting is that we did in fact sign a "Soriano-type" contract...
When we signed Matt Holliday.
Signed to an 8yr/136MM deal before the 2007 season, Soriano, at the age of 31, put up 7WAR in 2007 and 4.1 WAR in 2008.
Signed to a 7yr/120MM deal before the 2010 season, Holliday, at the age of 30, put up 6.7WAR in 2010 and 5 WAR in 2011.
Soriano was one year older when he signed, and his contract is one year longer, but it’s hard to say that they’re not of the same “type.”
I sure hope Holliday ages better than Soriano has. BY the way, check out this quote from Hendry when Soriano was signed:
[Hendry] isn’t worried that Soriano, who turns 31 in January, will tail off drastically by the end of the deal. “He’s lean. He’s like a greyhound, this guy. He’s some kind of an athlete, and that’s a very, very young body for his age,” Hendry said. “Who knows if somebody is going to be as productive at 38 as they are at 30 or 31. But, like I said, there’s a lot of guys in this game right now swinging the bat at a very high level in their late 30s or even early 40s.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2669806
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, they definitely got unlucky on the Soriano deal
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
actually maybe not
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Lots of people here hated the Holliday deal the day it was signed
because of similar expectations (that he’ll get paid a lot of money for little performance in the last years of the deal)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
I disliked it because it seemed like we were bidding against ourselves and paid way more than we could have
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
I severely doubt they were bidding against themselves for a guy coming off a 5.6 fWAR year
Not afraid to nitpick
this was 2008, i'm guess like 4 teams knew what WAR was
this was when the “Holliday can’t hit in the AL” craze was in full force.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Whether or not you think FOs across the league are morons despite all the evidence that 90% of the league has gone stats
He was a .313 .394 .515 hitting “run producer” too.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 20, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I never put much credence in that critique because we simply have no good information about what the other bids were
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, i know i don't have much to back it up
but there was never any other mention of offers close to ours, and nothing came up after the fact (which it usually does – see Fielder, Pujols)
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
I know this is revisionist to some degree
But Soriano’s plate “discipline” made him an easy candidate to fall off a cliff. Once his swing started to deteriorate he had nothing to fall back on. I don’t think anyone expected Soriano to be THIS bad, but it’s not like his inability to hit a slider came out of nowhere—-it just got worse.
Not afraid to nitpick
I agree
I was just pointing out that it was a “Soriano-like” contract. Holliday and Soriano are obviously different players and hopefully they age differently too.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
I was talking in retrospect
I think the best “bad contract” comp for Holliday is maybe Carlos Lee, but Holliday’s always been a better hitter than Lee ever was so even with comparable ageing I think the contract will turn out OK. Soriano is also pretty, well, weird, as a player. I think Holliday probably has a more regular skillset.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
As in - so far, during the recent period of Cards' history, we haven't signed a deal that's badly hamstrung the club
I’d say the Carp and Mulder deals could’ve been close, but they were both fairly short-term in comparison.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
The Cards certainly seem to have won the FA OF game
especially when you account for the fact that they also got the cheapest one, the comparison looks even better had Lego not had the Appendix thing, and that his Battin profile seems likely to age the best
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Theres a reason why Hendry is out of a job
and I think if he were in charge of any other roster but the Cubs’ he would’ve been gone years ago. That being said, I wish he were still in charge up there.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 20, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Seems he may be lean 'tween the ears as well as the years. . . .
Have to factor in mental toughness at some point I think. . ..
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
When I first saw that azru wrote this
I got excited and thought it was still the weekend and I didn’t have to go to class.
Mean trick.
Still not a werewolf.
It is Presidents Day
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 20, 2012 11:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I didn't even get off work!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i have to go to class today!
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 20, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
I theoretically have the day off.
In reality, I’m going to work.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
you know the worst thing about presidents' day?
when you bring the President breakfast in bed or a new tie or whatever you got him this year, and then you ask him “when is it going to be Non-Presidents’ Day” and he’s all like “every day is Non-President’s Day.” Fuckin’ presidents, man.
by Robth on Feb 20, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 10 recs
This reminds me of an old, old Peanuts strip
Can’t find the strip online, but it’s semi-quoted here
Linus: I’ve told you a million times that adults are different! You have to be able to read them. You know what your trouble is? You just have to understand the adult mind. I can predict what the average adult will say or do in almost any given situation. This is a must if you are going to survive as a child! Now take grandma for instance… I can predict exactly what she will say in the following situation. You draw a picture and I’ll draw a picture. Then you take the two pictures in and show them to grandma. Ask her which picture she thinks is the better… I predict that she will look at them and say “Why, I think they’re both very nice.”
[Needless to say, this prediction comes true exactly. In another strip, Linus makes another accurate prediction "If you go up to an adult and say “How come we have a mother’s day and a father’s day, but we don’t have a children’s day?” that adult will always answer “Every day is children’s day!”]
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
and bgh's post yesterday made me think it was monday and I thought I was late for class
oh, VEB editors, why you so mean
Regarding the polling question,
I’m intrigued by how overwhelmingly folks are choosing Wainwright despite him not having yet played in a game post-surgery.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Good pitching trumps all things
And, like Waino, I think we are all optimistic. He feels good, we feel good.
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
Wainwright is one of my favorite players,
but I don’t know if I feel four years good about his health at this moment.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Holliday is going to be in more games though
Barring injury to either Waino can only effect every 5th game. Holliday will be out there for the majority the games.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 20, 2012 11:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
this would mean that position players are inherently more valuable than pitchers
i don’t think there’s any case to be made that that’s true
by prophetjohn on Feb 20, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
my thought process for voting for holliday was, it's more like he stays healthy and plays well than waino as
pitchers seem more volatile in the long term than elite hitters in their prime
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
confendence in TJ recovery is at an all time high
Wainwright should be in his prime.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Wainwright is past his prime already.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
(statistically speaking, and in all probability, at least)
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
sorry
you’ll never convince me that a player one year my junior is past his prime.
It’s a sliding scale
Grit != flat out sucking.
I picked Jaime over Waino
b/c good LH SP are rare. And I’m hedging my bets on Wainwright coming off TJ surgery like bgh says.
this.
ask this question a year from now and it may be obvious. for now i’m taking holliday.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 20, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
I also went with Holliday.
not as any indication as to my thoughts towards the others on the list, but mostly because Holliday is awesome.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
My thought with Holliday was
if he signed a 4 year deal today, it wouldn’t be as good as the contract he’s already on. If he hit FA right now, he’d probably get a huge deal. Not that I wouldn’t want him, even on a bigger contract.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I went with Jaime
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Same.
Has Waino even tried to throw a breaking pitch yet?
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah. Then the people in charge get mad at him
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I know I saw a slider in the video of him facing live batters
And if he’s thrown a slider, he’s thrown a curveball.
Not afraid to nitpick
He has, he mentioned how his curve was breaking really hard in live bp.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
by CodyG on Feb 21, 2012 10:56 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
ditto
I think if he gets his head straightened out, he could be dominant.
by saul wright on Feb 20, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I had a hard time deciding
between Waino and Holliday. In the end, I went with my heart but those two would certainly be at the top of the list.
by ArkansasTravs on Feb 20, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
I chose Holliday because I don't want to give any pitcher a four year contract.
We might have to to get the best pitchers, but that wasn’t the question. Injury rates make long pitching contracts something preferable to avoid.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Feb 20, 2012 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Vision is:
Get as good a ballclub as you can get on the field with a payroll of $100 – $110 million. I think the lesson of the last ten years is to get a solid, veteran core of players at the 3-5 spot in the order, get a couple solid and veteran 1&2 guys in the rotation, and fill in the rest with quality young cost controlled players.
If you can have 5 guys cost you $60-$70 million, you hope the other 20 can fall in for $30-$40 million.
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
yeah having had the best player in game for the last 10 years come due for a payday and wanting 10 yrs almost ruined that formula
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Cardinals targeted the Pujols era with their contracts
and attempted to give themselves long-term payroll flexibility for the Pujols contract that never was. I also believe the farm system has been built up so that the organization has good, cheap players in the big leagues, which would help reduce the effect the Pujols contract that never was would have on payroll. As it turns out, Pujols left. Mozeliak reacted with a solid Plan B by filling the roster with productive veterans who were available on short-term deals due to their respective ages and injury histories. This builds a bridge to when the prospects may be ready to contribute. I think it will be interesting to see how much money the Cardinals are willing to offer Molina and Wainwright.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 20, 2012 10:18 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
Heh
No, this is a droid wreck.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 20, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh dear! Oh my!
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
by Aranathor on Feb 20, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My question about Plan B is
how the veterans who are brought in handle themselves, not only in front of cameras and on the field, but also in the clubhouse. These guys (Berkman, Beltran, Furcal, Oswalt if he comes here) have had some success at other stops, but no ring (except, of course, for Berkman and Furcal here). But they’re aware that, though they have had injury issues, they have been stars, and they are on short contracts here, essentially playing for a year or two to try to get one more really good contract before riding off into the evening of retirement. They are stop-gaps, fillers for younger guys who will eventually replace them for less money (and in the case of Berkman, a replacement for the best player of the last decade). I know, how can you call these guys stop-gaps, when between the 4 of them (again, Oswalt is just an example) they have accumulated 191.4 bWAR(!) That’s an average of 47.85 per player (now, rank the four by bWAR without looking!) But this is how it feels to me, and I wonder if this is how it feels to these players, and if, to some extent, they are resentful of the situation in which they find themselves
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Beltran, Berkman, Oswalt, Furcal?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
That is my guess on the WAR ranking of those four (greatest to least)
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Yes.
Almost the same way they came up, Beltran in ’98, Berkman in ’99, Oswalt in ’01, Furcal in ’00.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Silver Lining of a less than expected season...
is that the veterans on this squad are the types of players teams will trade prospects for at the deadline for a postseason push. The Cardinals should be able to get some decent talent to fill some gaps within the farm system (Catcher, CF) if the season comes to this.
I also think it's quite possible we've been somewhat lucky with the farm system
You’d like to hope it’s a sign of good process, but in all honesty I think a larger portion of the success may be down to good fortune.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Nice. I wonder how the next draft with the number of high picks figures into thie equation.
If the draft produces very positive results, the team may be less willing to dole out mega-tracts to aging vets – particularly at catcher with the attendant risk of injury and to pitchers coming off TJ ops.
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
It seems I left a player out of my backup catcher post from yesterday.
From Jenifer Langosch at the Official Site:
It appears as if the backup catcher’s job will be a competition that extends deep into Spring Training. General manager John Mozeliak said on Sunday that three candidates — Tony Cruz, Bryan Anderson and Koyie Hill — will all get strong looks.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Le sigh
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 20, 2012 10:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why sigh?
If you sign a veteran catcher to a minor league deal, it’s obvious he’s the back-up plan. And a strong look in spring training is necessary to make sure that the back-up plan is actually viable. Especially if the two other candidates implode at spring training.
There were those who thought me a little crazy yesterday
And you know who you are. I don’t particularly Koyie, but he DID belong on the list. MUHAHAHA! Er, anyway, carry on, then. (shrug)
I still say- not really.
Johnny Mo is going to say that, because that’s the diplomatic thing to do.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
In all honesty, whilst Hill would be mildly disappointing
is 150-odd PAs from Hill (with likely superior defense) really going to be any worse than 150 from Anderson or Cruz? I give this one a healthy “meh”.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
the recent talk of 'new market deficiency' recently has made me realise something
Did anyone (as in; blogger, journalist, executive, scout, player, robot) talk about this before the Cards started snapping up everyone from the 2005 Astros?
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
I believe it's the focus of Jonah Keri's book on the Rays.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Do you mean market inefficiency in general, or the specific tactic of under-valued, formerly injured and therefore cheap veteran players?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I'm wrong.
From The Hardball Times review:
The Extra 2% tells the story of the takeover engineered by Sternberg, Silverman and Friedman as the first instance of Wall Street going to the ballpark. Where the A’s used one main business concept (market inefficiencies) to target less toolsy players who excelled in other areas (specifically on-base percentage), the men who engineered the Rays turnaround brought their entire repertoire of business ideas with them. The title of Keri’s book refers to one of those strategies, arbitrage, where the new owners used their business experience to acquire and deal assets for even the slimmest of advantages—even if it netted them only a 2 percent gain.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I dunno, but I think maybe I remember people musing on it a bit as soon as we signed Berkman
It was more of a “if this crazy scheme works, then maybe” sort of conversation, I think.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I don't think so. Next up is the '07 Rockies
Except we already have thier best player. Damn it! I hope Helton can hit well playing RF
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 20, 2012 10:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
They didn't draft him.
The Cardinals signed Wittels as an undrafted free agent. He went undrafted due to concerns about criminal charges on file against him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Right, but that turned out to be extortion
So is he legitimate though? No one talks about him
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 20, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
He hasn't taken a professional plate appearance yet, unless I'm mistaken.
I imagine he would have been drafted had he not been criminally charged, so signing him as an undrafted free agent is likely a nice move by the Cardinals in terms of his cost versus his talent. I don’t know how evaluators projected him prior to the draft, though, so I don’t know if he’d qualify as “legitimate.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
42 not-so-great games at Low A
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=sa601249&position=2B/3B
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
Hmm.
Maybe he’ll get better. Can’t help but feel for the guy.
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 20, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think I'd use the term "extortion."
In any event, I guess he’s got a shot as a utility player. He’s got a decent arm, but doesn’t look to have the defensive chops to play SS, and doesn’t look to have the power to play elsewhere.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
I seem to remember someone somewhere saying he would have been a 10+ Round pick.
Dunno how accurate that is.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 21, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
yes or no? we've seen holliday's best year in cardinal red already.
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 20, 2012 11:09 AM EST reply actions
I mean, just going by aging curves, probably
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Most likely.
I don’t see him topping his 2010 season as he enters his mid-30s. That being said, if he’s going to top that season, this season or next are the best bets for him to do so.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
in terms of WAR?
maybe not, if he can stay healthier this year and next
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
67.2% yes
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
I think he'll have a season with more home runs than what we've seen
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Dustin_Mattison: The #stlcards bonus pool is $9,131,100 for the 2012 MLB draft. I could be wrong, I don't think the org. has ever spent that on one draft.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Somehow the Cardinals ended up with the 3rd highest draft pool
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
4th, not 3rd
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
While we may not have any top 10 picks, we do have quite a few top 100 picks.
I’m not all that surprised that we have less in our signing pool than the Twins, Astros, and Padres. Seems about right, doesn’t it?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I meant it in a "We just won the World Series, and now we have the 4th highest draft pool."
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
The Cards have historically been pretty chintzy on the draft.
They’ve gone overslot here and there (like Miller and Cox), but in the context of the entire draft, pretty chintzy.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
well it could be huge for us in 5 years or so if they spend and pick well to maximize the opportunity right
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Thats the pool for the first ten rounds
Anyone know what the rules are after the 10th? For instance, if another Strasburg-like talent comes along looking for 20+ million and falls in the draft, could a team take him in the 11th and spend whatever they want?
by LastoftheMozeliaks on Feb 20, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Any bonus greater than $100,000 for a player taken after the 10th round will apply toward the bonus-pool total.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
I figured there had to be some sort of limit
by LastoftheMozeliaks on Feb 20, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Bench composition
By May should look like…
Craig
Backup catcher
Schumaker (seems unavoidable)
2nd base loser (greene/descalso)
TBD
Who is the favorite and why for TBD?
I say Matt carpenter
by ShannonIsn'tSober on Feb 20, 2012 11:28 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Another way to look at it
What will the bench be on Opening Day? Which player will be demoted once Craig is activated?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Komatsu or Chambers too, maybe?
I’m pulling for Carpenter.
Tangential question: Who do we think is more likely to be considered a “starting outfielder” by the end of the year, Craig or Jay?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Against a lefty starter
I see a bench of
Jay L
Skip L
Descalso L
Cruz( R) or Anderson(L) or KHill(S)
I think TBD will be a righthanded hitter. However, the following all bat lefty: Adams, Cora, Wong, Carpenter, Cox, Hamilton, Chambers, Komatsu
Other options (Kozma( R), Velez(S) SRobinson( R)) underwhelm me. I’m guessing 3 catchers go north.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Feb 20, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Well, against a lefty starter, you'd want a lot of LH bench bats. And in your scenario (with Jay on the bench)...
…the entire starting lineup would be RH batting. Furcal, Beltran, Holliday, Berkman, Craig, Freese, Yadi, Greene.
Also, I can’t see any way that 3 catchers go north. The most important thing for Cruz’s longterm development is to catch more games – if he’s not the first backup, he needs to catch full time in Memphis.
I think the last backup spot goes to Komatsu or Carpenter, depeding on whether Schu is seen as a backup infielder or OF.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
If Komatsu hits well enough during Spring Training,
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him make the 25-man to give the organization a bit more time to evaluate him and give Carpenter time to play positions other than third base while in Memphis.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That's what I'm thinking as well, given that Descalso can play 2B/3B/SS and Greene can do the same, if needed.
However, I just keep coming back to the notion of Schu, Descalso, and Komatsu being on the same bench; talk about redundancy…
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
It's a competition between redundant players.
I’d say the top contenders for the open bench spot are Matt Carpenter, Chambers, and Komatsu. Lots of left-handed hitters.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Hard to say...
I really don’t believe Beltran is a legit everyday centerfielder anymore, and given the limited range of the other outfielders, I would not be surprised to see Jay as the nominal centerfielder, especially if his bat stays alive.
Craig will be used to spell Berkman at first, as well, so he’s got other options to play once he’s healthy.
What does "legit" centerfielder mean?
Do you mean he’s -10 runs? -15? The next question you have to ask is whether or not we want Beltran and Craig with poor defense overall vs. Beltran/Craig and Jay with average defense. Please show your work.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don't believe that Craig is poor at outfield defense.
Having seen him play in the outfield while with Memphis, I him to be roughly average. Nothing he did in St. Louis has dampened that assessment.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
and neither him or nor jay left anything in the tank
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
I meant the combination of him in right and Beltran in center is likely below average.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Sure.
But even the combination of Berkman and Jay last season was below average, don’t you think?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yup
I’m arguing against forsch’s point that we’ll somehow be terrible with Beltran in center. The only thing that matters is runs scored vs. runs allowed.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
And we at least know that some in the organization are willing to look at it that way too
Since we already put Berkman in right field for a whole year.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Matt Carp. Maybe Andrew Brown if backup catcher is Anderson as we're looking a bit lefty-heavy.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Andrew Brown is in the Rockies organization now.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
ah, didn't realise.
Well, I can’t think of any other cromulent righty hitters. So MCarp it is then.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
The bench will almost certainly be heavy on left-handed hitters.
There are virtually no right-handed options.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
PETE KOZMA!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Would you rather have Kozma or Cora on the bench come Opening Day?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Cora
I think it’s quite possible they’re similarly terrible hitters, but I’m reasonably confident Cora is still just about an average shortstop, which isn’t something I’ve heard said with any confidence about Kozma. Plus, 37 wRC+ in AAA last year, I mean come on!
I actually think Cora was a good sign, given our complete lack of any depth in the middle infield in AAA. He’s likely better than Solano as well I’d imagine.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Zips and PECOTA both project Kozma as having excellent defense at short
and both project him as even better than Ryan Jackson (whom they both see as above average),
In the, essentially meaningless, 28.2 innings in the majors last year, he had a UZR/150 of 28.2.
Seems like he’s most likely above average, though I wouldn’t expect a UZR nearly that high. Also, his glove was always the one tool that people projected to possibly be above average in the majors.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 21, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Minor league defensive stats are even still more noisy than UZR, which does things like have Carlos Lee be awesome for a year sometimes
Not afraid to nitpick
Yea, but they're all in agreement with each other AND the scouting reports.
I’ll be surprised if he’s not some amount above average.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 21, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Every scouting report I've seen of Kozma says he has questionnable defense
or at least that he’s quite error-prone. Anyways, time will tell, I guess.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 21, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
I would disagree. Kozma's defense is quite good by stats and scouting reports.
Having a bunch of errors at AA is not necessarily a good indicator of defensive ability.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 21, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on whose bench. Pittsburgh comes to mind.
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
Brown is a gonner
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Things I did not know
You can create “Custom Teams” with a Fangraphs account to follow your fantasy baseball team
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
How sweet the warmth of a woman's touch feels
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Only a stat nerd would equate a website stat spreadsheet to the touch of a woman.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Whoa...it's not even noon yet.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
by ClemsonGirl on Feb 20, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I believe the comment was part of the list of "Things I did not know"
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 20, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 12 recs
excellent
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Past-tense.
So the real question is: When did mysterui learn this particular bit of knowledge?
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
And...
how much did it set him back?
"Progress always involves risk; you can't steal second base and keep your foot on first base." - Frederick Wilcox
by cardzfanbub on Feb 20, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
If he learned that at Mardi Gras, that might not have been a woman.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
hay guyz wats goin on
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
We're discussing your sex life,
this doesn’t concern you.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
(Which I assumed was the joke Rui was making from the get-go by the way)
(I’m kind of confused that this got so many recs since I was literally just trying to explain Rui’s joke, I wasn’t making some sort of insult. The guy is currently married so based on that, plus his use of the past tense with “did not know” I think it’s safe to assume he is not familiar with a woman’s warm touch.)
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Damn it
I meant, I think it’s safe to assume he is familiar. Blargh. The Tyrant of Typos strikes again!
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Oh wait you said the same thing
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
post of the (still young) year
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 20, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know why this got all the recs when that was the intention of that post in the first place
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
That IS exciting!
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 20, 2012 12:00 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think MLB.tv is going to have something like that too.
I guess I’ll have to actually sign up for Fangraphs now.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
pttsh, i knew that 3 years ago when i was in that BtB fantasy league
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
2011 Danny Espinosa, 2B
.236/.323/.414 – .325 wOBA
+1.0 UZR, +2.9 BsR
8.7% BB
25.2% K
3.5 WAR
Do any of these numbers feel unreachable for Tyler Greene?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Feb 20, 2012 12:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
No, but geez does ZiPS have him down for a ton of strikeouts.
If he can avoid being the whiffing windmill that ZiPS thinks he’ll be, then no.
Also, how did Greene have negative BsR last year?
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa that's quite a line.
Tyler could be a better baserunner, but other than that this would be awesome. (Though the average fan would think he would suck terribly unless he makes Boogsian plays on a regular basis)
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Feb 20, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think the average fan will still think he sucks terribly.
Boog made Boogsian plays regularly… and many fans were happy when we signed Theriot.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Seriously, it boggles me how underwhelming that line is and how it adds up to 3.5 WAR
I’d take the over on the UZR and BsR too
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
nope
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
this is why I'm bullish on kolten wong.
I think he’ll hit for a better average than this and walk more. Even without substantial power (looking at you, law!), he could be a 4 WAR second baseman. And I like wong’s chances of doing this in 2014 much more than greene’s chances in 2012.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 20, 2012 3:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think the walkrate is a little high.
But I’d guess his BSr would be higher over a full year.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I thought that too, but his walk rate is 8.4% in his career 359 PAs
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 21, 2012 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
so it's going to get better in MLB?
Not sure about that.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 21, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Mariners reported will bat Figgins leadoff instead of Ichiro.
Rob Neyer’s post on the move contains this:
Moving Ichiro is unlikely to make him hit better and moving Figgins is unlikely to make him hit better and frankly everyone would be a lot better off if Eric Wedge spent less time worrying about trivial bullshit and read more books about baseball and psychology and baseball psychology.
I think.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
But that is what Eric Wedge does.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
by ClemsonGirl on Feb 20, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone else think that where a manager places a batter in the order
is a huge part of baseball pschology ?
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Feb 20, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
Because some batters might feel more comfortable in a certain spot in the batting order than the other.
I don't think that it is.
Skip Schumaker is going to be mediocre wherever he bats in the order while Matt Holliday is going to be excellent wherever he bats in the order. Daniel Descalso will be mediocre no matter his position in the order and Berkman will be excellent. The trick is to let the batter take enough plate appearances for his true talent to show itself. Almost all of the batting order splits are too small a sample to tell us anything of use.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
it's part of the prevailing conventional wisdom of baseball psychology
but does it really have any measurable effect on performance? I’d guess not. Like bgh said, if you move a player to a new spot in the order and he has 20 PAs where his average dips .100, many people will attribute it to the change but in reality there’s no way to tell from that insignificant a sample size.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
A yup
5 years/$125M (2012-16), plus 2017 club option. Signed extension with Philadelphia 4/26/10. 12:$20M, 13:$20M, 14:$25M, 15:$25M, 16:$25M, 17:$23M club option, $10M buyout. Limited no-trade protection.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
They'll be too busy regretting the other terrible contracts that Amaro's going to sign
as a result of drinking whiskey straight from the bottle at noon in an attempt to forget that he signed the Ryan Howard contract. It’s the vicious cycle of general managing.
by Robth on Feb 20, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no, he's talking about david --
You know what, fuck this meme. I think this one is stupid. I quit.
by hr on Feb 20, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 12 recs
which begs the question, is there a VEB meme
that hasn’t run its course? Except misusing logical fallacies. That has little play left, I’d say.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Feb 20, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
YOU THINK VEB WILL JUST LET MEMES DIE?
by TBender on Feb 20, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I think this one will always be funny.
A sort of homage to TLR from his last year.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
why is this not green yet?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 20, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
I still like Rui's mom
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
I feel like that one jumped the shark ages ago. Then again, I’ve always been uncomfortable with it even though he seems to take it well.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 20, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He learned how to take it from the best.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Feb 20, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 11 recs
I was gonna go with
“taking it well runs in the family,” but it’s 6 of one, a half dozen of the other.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Feb 20, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
see, still funny
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Still funny when done right.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
just like Rui's mom?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
It's just really tired
I’m not offended at it or anything, it’s just old
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
That was my main point.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
concur with this
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
I would also suspect that it is doesn't exactly put VEB in the best light
for people who may not realize it is all just a joke, i.e. casual VEB readers/new visitors.
by bailorg on Feb 20, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think those guys are reading too many deep comment threads
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just saying it's one of those things that someone who isn't in on the joke
could find rather jarring.
I dunno
this is the internet.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
i am offended, even if rui is not, by this meme and wish it would be discontinued
i am not offended by a lot and don’t think any other meme’s cross the line, some are humorous, some are not. but this particular one is of bad taste in my opinion and perhaps so do others who are silent or not yet/may never become members.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
That's not really a point
I mean, this is the internet, so am I allowed to spew racism and sexism across the boards?
The problem arises in that this theme of jokes is in stark contrast with the community guidelines. No racism, sexism, homophobia, personal attacks etc. all seem reasonable because we don’t want to see insults directed at a person or a group of people. You might understand that someone who read these rules and then sees these kinds of jokes in the comments might be somewhat perplexed.
Anyway, it’s a gray area that I suppose we’ve come to accept, considering the joke still comes around occasionally. But still.
by hr on Feb 20, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
The average VEB post gets somewhere around 800 comments
I doubt anyone is reading those religiously who isn’t already familiar with the Rui’s mom joke. New readers read the articles, and then maybe the on topic comments. Most of the Rui’s mom jokes occur in OT threads or late night.
The “it’s the internet” comment was in reference to the fact that the majority of people using the internet are youngish and are likely familiar with the “your mother” jokes and thus are not likely to be offended on Rui’s behalf.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Kind of difficult to discern which comments are on-topic
until you actually read the comment.
by bailorg on Feb 20, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
except that topics are organized by thread
and it’s pretty easy to differentiate between threads. and rarely do threads start off with a Rui’s mom joke. in fact those are usually just one liners that only make sense if you’re reading the whole thread.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
When I first came across said meme, I just assumed it was a running joke.
I wasn’t offended and I simply took it as a reflection of the somewhat tight-knit community of the comment section here. I figured it was basically on the same level as someone saying “f’n zoomzoom” or something like that.
Torty Craig, we hardly knew ye.
by KlausChadman on Feb 20, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
"Except misusing logical fallacies."
I’m reccing this so hard right now.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
THE SUBJUNCTIVE ONE IS STILL AWESOME
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 20, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
serious meme-free question
does St Louisan Ryan Howard still maintain a residence in St Louis?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 20, 2012 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
ooooh. (Inhales).
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
AHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA ha ha ha ha…..
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
well said
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
it's funnier with the british accent.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 20, 2012 5:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
In the sixties Felonius Monk talked like this
But as he’s gotten older his voice has become deeper and he talks into the middle of his mouth like this.
She was only sixteen years old!
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 20, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it get's broken and sounds just like this!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome movie, the impersonations are spot on.
Sign Bubbie Buzachero!
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 20, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Word for five in Thai is "ha." Thai comic books, comic strips regularly feature characters laughing 5,5,5,5.
Kind of Pujolsian (black) humor.
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
SI.com has an article on Waino throwing
Apparently Holliday has been hanging with Dan’n’Al:
“At the team’s Winter Warmup last month, outfielder Matt Holliday said that getting Wainwright back was like signing a big-ticket free agent that would help compensate for Pujols’ departure.”
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 20, 2012 12:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Somehow it sounds better when Matt says it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he was just trolling them.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
And then they went and signed like 3 big ticket free agents anyway.
Nice offseason.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
I saw
this and threw up a little bit.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 12:15 PM EST reply actions
well, there is that.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
The Tyler Greene Fanclub resents this statement and assumes you are talking JUST about Schumaker in this context.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Feb 20, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
That is a correct assumption
and I regret that I didn’t clarify the point that engaged my upchuck reflex.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
looked this up. this reminds me of the Bob Uecker fan club in the modern day!
only tyler greene is better than bob uecker. bob’s self professed secret was not doing to well, so that a performance slide wouldn’t draw attention to the fact that he was not very good
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
I thought that TLR's retirement would mark the end of the failed Schumaker-as-infielder experiment.
His defense as an infielder is so horrendous that he should not be allowed to play the infield for a single pitch this season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm assuming that they don't want Tyler to think that he doesn't have to work for it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
That's what Descalso is for.
Including Schumaker in the competition for second base is like including Hill in the competition for backup catcher. Both veterans have proven themselves unworthy of the respective job.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I was being a smartass.
I can’t think of any logical reason for Skip to even be at ST to begin with.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
he's passing on veterenness to greene
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Sometimes I forget that we're just at the pitchers and catchers stage of spring training.
The position players there are reporting early.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
never to early to make a good impression
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
I think having Schu as emergency 2B is kinda useful
in that it means we can dispense with the 4th middle infielder we used to carry too often when TLR was in charge. Dirty Dan, Greene and Furcal can all play SS in a pinch, so I think (given the fact none of our 3Bs can play the middle infield, at all) having Schumaker saves us from having to carry Cora or something. I guess.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, Skip is bad, but he's only like -10 runs over a full season
there are worse options considering that he can hit a little bit.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh. Do not like that delivery at all.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Oops. Was talking about Jenkins' bullpen throwing, which follows the Schumaker vid.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Jenkins' delivery reminds me of Wainwright's.
Also, I couldn’t see Rosenthal very well in Goold’s iPhone video, but he looked a little like Josh Beckett (a little, rushed crouch in mid-delivery).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Jenkins' arm action isn't anything like Waino's
And even if it was, I’ll take 5 full years of a heavy workload (other than a finger injury) before needing TJ from any pitcher.
Not afraid to nitpick
Really? I really like what I've seen of Jenkins' action so far.
Looks pretty easy and I think there might even be more velocity to come.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
you can tell which one is schumaker by how quick he is and how strong his throws are.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 20, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
The tail is what gave him away to me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, fuck fundamentals
i want to see some serious experimental fielding. see if he can snag a groundball with the back of his glove.
This one coach I had tried to put me on a weight training program...
…and I was all like, “You and your weights can go frick off somewhere. I’m not lifting that shite. That shite is heavy. You tell me why I need strength training when I’m strong enough to throw a goddam 100 MPH pitch. frick. THAT.” See in life, when you have talent, all the other shite doesn’t matter. If we were on an island with no weights, and no running drills, who would be on top then? The guy with the talent. In a nutshell, you can train all you want. You can work on your catching, on your throwing, your running. Hell, it might be enough to get you into the Majors. But in order to be a standout, an All-Star, a Champion, you need more than hard work and dedication. You need something that you can’t work for. You need a blessing from God… Almighty.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
You're crazy man!
I like you, but you’re crazy!
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 20, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
one of us?
Can’t make out if it’s Boog, Landon or Homer Simpson’s half brother Herb, but Jane Lee tells us there is indeed a Powell in that batting cage. Thanks, Jane!
Grit != flat out sucking.
Over at Baseball America:
Pretty interesting to see what teams are going to be allowed to spend vs. what they did last year. Pirates, Royals, Nationals, Rays, and DBacks are going to have to cut waaaay back. This doesn’t seem to be a way to allow smaller market franchises to create more competitive teams.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 1:26 PM EST reply actions
Hm. Didn't see that this was already linked.
Carry on.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
WMT
Who were the two players you posted yesterday?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
m carp and hamilton
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
In this post?
It was MCarp and Hamilton. Haimlton’s line was a compilation of 2011 and 2012.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
The 26 year old was Matt Carpenter, the 27 year old was Mark Hamilton, but it was a combination of his last two seasons
to get to a comparable number of PAs.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
suck it bobo!
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Well, hmph
See, I actually win because my post was the most thorough and accurate. You didn’t mention the stuff about Hamilton’s combo-year and WMT made a typo and said 2011 and 2012 instead of 2010 and 2011. So there.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I really should re-read my posts for typos.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I can only ironically complain about it since I think I'm basically the VEB King of Typos.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
you're not even close
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
OK, self-appointed then
I’m a typographical tyrant.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Oh, you were meaning in a Typo Nazi kind of way?
Because there is no way you make more typos than some here.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
No, I didn't mean typo Nazi, I just meant I make a lot of typos
It actually comes in spurts.
…
…
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Premiering this fall on CBS...
The Typoist, starring mattybobo.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
they need a good Friday nite show
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not touching that second line with a ten foot pole.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Feb 20, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Rui didn't ask for no specifics
your wasting words, son.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
your welcome.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 20, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
#selfishBeltran
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
That Jonathan is one niese guy
there, I said it.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
reads more like he shamed him into getting it done
and doesn’t appear that he actually paid for it
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Why I love Jon Bois
BALK RULES! IMPORTANT!
1. You can’t just be up there and just doin’ a balk like that.
1a. A balk is when you
1b. Okay well listen. A balk is when you balk the
1c. Let me start over
1c-a. The pitcher is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, batter, that prohibits the batter from doing, you know, just trying to hit the ball. You can’t do that.
1c-b. Once the pitcher is in the stretch, he can’t be over here and say to the runner, like, “I’m gonna get ya! I’m gonna tag you out! You better watch your butt!” and then just be like he didn’t even do that.
1c-b(1). Like, if you’re about to pitch and then don’t pitch, you have to still pitch. You cannot not pitch. Does that make any sense?
1c-b(2). You gotta be, throwing motion of the ball, and then, until you just throw it.
1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there’s the balk you gotta think about.
1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Balk hasn’t been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn’t typecast as that racist lady in American History X.
1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse.
1c-b(2)-b(ii). “get in mah bellah” — Adam Water, “The Waterboy.” Haha, classic…
1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A balk is when the pitcher makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the baseball and field of
2. Do not do a balk please.
This is from the 2011 Sports gifs page
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Feb 20, 2012 1:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
i think Bois is being a little harsh
the rules very clearly state that a balk consists of a pitching motion that is completely fucked, in a totally weird sort of way where it’s like “Hey, you shouldn’t be doing that.”
Sort of like pornography - hard to define, but you know it when you see it
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 20, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
their vision seems to be overall progressive but with a few odd signings
I’d say they are going in the way of stretching the payroll, but sometimes it’s hard to explain some of the decisions. at least they have plenty of depth.
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2012 1:48 PM EST reply actions
Whatever you do
DO NOT turn on mlb network right now.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Are they showing that video from The Ring?
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Might as well be
It’s on at work right now, ugh
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 20, 2012 2:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
ap looks different in the face ... must be the hat ... but he somehow looks older
or is he thinner?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
Imagine that, the Japanese media member wants to know about Darvish.
by openside on Feb 20, 2012 2:14 PM EST via Android app reply actions
OT but could my 21 and 22 year old friends stop getting engaged and pregnant?
K, thanks.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
I am neither engaged nor pregnant
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i think he's saying you are a carrier
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Both.
These are all separate cases. My current request comes from someone who is pregnant but not engaged. But I am also upset at my friends who are engaged and not pregnant…or married…they upset me too.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Just wait...
soon they’ll start posting baby pictures and start philosophizing about the joys of parenthood.
myself and a group of friends concocted a plan to "fit in"
on facebook by posting daily updates about what our non-existant children are doing, just to see how long it takes for someone to figure out what we’re doing
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 20, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Are they doing it in that order?
Inquiring minds want to know.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 20, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
In my experience, that cycle started around the same time
and by the time we all turned 25-26 everyone was miserable with 2 kids and teetering on the brink of divorce…hence the reason I’m still single at 30…so much less of a hassle
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 20, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
same here.
every word of it. People provide daily reminders on why getting married and/or having kids is a terrible idea. Kudos to those of you that make it work, but guess what….you are the minority so don’t try to tell me or FMTWP that what we said isn’t right.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, you aggressive pro-getting-married-and-having-kids folks should stop posting all this crap about how it's not awful
Wait, what?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
no..you had it right
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
I learned everything I needed to know about this topic by the time I was 9 years old
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
THE MOST reliable source.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
That name sounds familiar
He must have played for the Cardinals during the 80s or 90s.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Not many people know that what we're doing now in Latin America
would never have happened without our original scouting outreach efforts in Eastern Europe in the 80’s.
Leave favorite memories of Jim Edmonds here
Shouldn't somebody (i.e., not me) make a fanpost where we can all guess who'll
be in the opening day lineup (and in what order), and who’s on the 25-man?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 2:26 PM EST reply actions
Nose goes.
(Puts finger on nose)
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Dan Knobler of CBS:
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I failed at embedding that tweet.
As Pujols said in Tempe, he has kept in touch with ex-teammates. Kyle McClellan said today that he and Albert have exchanged texts.
— DKnobler (@DKnobler) February 20, 2012
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
"Yeah.... Albert and I totally texted..."
(314): Sup BERT!
(714): Who is this?
(314): It’s Kyle! what up buddddddy?!?!
(714): Kyle who?
(314): It’s K-Mac, Albert! U know me!
(714): How did you get this number, mang?
(314): :(
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Feb 20, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Followed by...
Mike Scioscia: “All right, which one of your cell phones just went off!? Who was it?”
Pujols: “I’ma sorry, mang, it was mine. Kyle McClelleng just texted me. I don’t even know how he got my number.”
Scioscia: “Well, ”https://twitter.com/#!/jonmorosi/status/171681439610437632" >that’s a fine. Angels rules. It’s a fine of 0.05% of your salary."
Pujols: “What? Tony always let me be on my cell phone, mang. I also had an extra locker for my gear.”
Scioscia: “Well, this ain’t Jupiter, bub. I’ll take cash or a check.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm not having much luck posting today.
I meant to link to this tweet:
Albert Pujols fined because his phone went off during meeting today. Going to make a huge dent in that salary! #Angels
— Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) February 20, 2012
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That's not a trivial fine
0.05% of Albert’s salary (I think) is $6,000. He could take the whole team to Dennys and throw a wild party for that, methinks.
i was thinking that as well, i'm sure he'd rather plow that money into his charity
also, i wonder if he’s ever been fined before, assuming this is serious
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
there is a .02% fine for not running out a ground ball
this is how the angels were able to afford to sign him to that monster contract.
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Feb 20, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Let's see
182 games X 2 GB’s/game X 30%not run out X 0.02% fine X $12M = $262,080
Still a rather insignificant portion of said $12M. Still, enough to pay for a league minimum player when the salary goes up to $25M.
/note that I’m aware claiming that Albert doesn’t run out 30% of his grounders borders on hyperbole
by ArkansasTravs on Feb 21, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Holliday and Berkman are both projected for 132 OPS+
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/oracle/discussion/2012_zips_projections_-st.louis_cardinals/
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2012 3:02 PM EST reply actions
Berkman's a bit more OBP heavy though
5 WAR!
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know why this list doesn't have Beltran
old list?
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, check san fran for his projection
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Or the ZIPS spreadsheet being posted tomorrow (!):
ZiPS spreadsheet up tomorrow – I keep getting requests for players!
— Dan Szymborski (@DSzymborski) February 20, 2012
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Sean Keeler to join Fox Sports
It’s official: I’m joining the team at @FSMidwest and @FSKansasCity, effective at the end of the month. Very, very stoked.
— SeanKeeler (@SeanKeeler) February 20, 2012
Anyone heard anything about this? Keeler used to write for the Des Moines Register but was laid off several months ago. I liked his stuff for the Register. I suspect he’ll be covering the Big XII and the Valley, but I wonder if he’ll be covering the Royals and Cardinals, too.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Unlike Rains,
Keeler has journalism experience. He was a columnist for the Des Moines Register at the time of his layoff by Gannett. Keeler is a good writer with what used to be a good Twitter feed (which has been largely dormant since his layoff). I’m interested to see what role he will have with Fox Sports, so if anyone sees an article on it, please post the article.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
If he's going to Fox Sports KC, it's hard to imagine he'll cover anything other than the KC teams.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
SPORTING KC WHOOOOOOO
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
who? indeed.
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
by Aranathor on Feb 20, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
The tweet says he is going to FS Midwest & FS Kansas City.
Since Keeler covered both Drake and Northern Iowa, teams in the Valley, I wonder if he’ll be writing on the Valley for FS Kansas City. Also, I believe Fox Sports carries Big XII football, which Keeler also covered for the Register. I don’t actually think he’ll cover the Cardinals for FS Midwest or the Royals for FS Kansas City, but I am curious as to what exactly he will be covering.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I always get confused with this
Is FSMidwest the St. Louis channel, or is there some sort of FS St. Louis?
FSMidwest is Saint Louis only now
It used to be really screwed up where FSMidwest just Saint Louis, but then there where FSMidwest: Kansas City for KC and FSMidwest: Indiana for Indy, etc, etc. I believe all the other markets in the Mid West dropped the Midwest part now, though, and Saint Louis for whatever reason got to be the Highlander of Fox Sports Midwest markets.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
there can be only one
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Westbrook lost 20 lbs. and is in the best shape of his life!
brought to you by the unicorn.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
Alxfritz has been on this story for a couple of weeks.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I want pictures, damnit!
In theory, he should look like Marky Mark now.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
Goold hasn't posted a pixilated pic of him yet?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
its the eyes ... actually it's the whole face minus the beard, but mainly the eyes
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Lieutenant Carwood Lipton
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 20, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
there was a pic of skinny westbrook in yesterday's thread or the or the day before actually
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Skinny Westbrook looks remarkably the same as last year Westbrook.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
I was thinking the same thing.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
was talking about
but guess it was from last season after all, but he’s still pretty skinny looking
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
like I said yesterday, it looks like he gained 20+ pounds
During the season. I’m glad he lost the weight, but he’d probably do better to focus on his diet and exercise during the season, rather than the off-season.
/pot calling kettle.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 20, 2012 6:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It is? It was just posted on fb that day...
by the Cardinals page no less.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 21, 2012 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
I am always late to the party. Sad.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
I read the title and I was like
Well I do agree good sir!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 20, 2012 3:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Really surprised with the result here
I voted Garcia and really thought he’d get more votes, although I’d admit I considered Adam and Hollidome. Still, surprising how much Waino won by, given his age.
Still bitching to contact.
Yeah Jaime could be better than Waino going forward
given their respective ages and the fact that Waino is coming off surgery.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
i voted wainwright
just because he was injured and the price wouldn’t be sky high
curiouse why someone would voted holliday…it seems he could demand more money now
by guillermozeliak on Feb 20, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
So much for versatility:
Per Langosch:
Manager Mike Matheny suggested that the Cardinals have no immediate plans to extend the workload of some projected Cards relievers in order to have them ready as an emergency starter.
That means that, barring any injuries to the five rotation members, pitchers like Lance Lynn, Kyle McClellan and Mitchell Boggs will build themselves up this spring solely as relievers. The three right-handers, who all have past experience as starters, are competing for spots in the Cardinals’ bullpen.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
why?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
The header reads, "Relievers won't prepare to be spot starters."
It seems that the Cardinals will follow their usual practice with in-season spot starts by promoting from the minors. That’s why I’ve never really bought the “McClellan as swing man” argument. If there’s an injury in Spring Training, he’ll probably work as a starter, but not if there’s one after Opening Day.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah, i'm wondering why they would do that
Lynn is clearly the best starting option after the starting 5, followed by Rzep and then probably Boggs or KMac. Makes no sense.
I will be really pissed if Rzep and Lynn end up being relievers for the entire time they are under team control.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Given that they're losing 2 starters after this year and Carpenter isn't under contract after 2013
I’d imagine they will get a chance.
Not afraid to nitpick
Lynn I'm sure will
not so sure about Rzep, especially if he has another stellar year in the LOOGY role.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to think that anyone can see that a 3 pitch lefty has a chance to start
Not afraid to nitpick
Scrabble the starter > scrabble the LOOGY
I could handle 2 left handed starters in our rotation.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 20, 2012 4:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Jaime and Scrabble are actually very comparable pitchers IMO
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
How about "scrabble the reliever"?
Cause not every LH reliever is a LOOGY.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Scrabble the starter > scrabble the reliever > scrabble the LOOGY
Youre absolutely right
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 20, 2012 4:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i guess i'd have to see him a little more to really know
but I’ve never seen anything out of Rzep to suggest a future starter
you mean besides the sub 4 xFIP in 120 innings as a starter in the AL East?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
the only significant difference between Jaime and Rzep is that Jaime has a curve
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think Rzep & Garcia's sinkers are similar?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
based on (dated) pitch f/x analysis' i did of both of them
I’d say yes:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/anatomy-of-a-player-marc-rzepczynsk/
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/6/24/1526788/jaime-pitch-f-x
Rzep’s actually has a bit more movement in terms of tail and sink (but that could also just be pitch f/x error).
Jaime does have the cutter, which helps a lot, but Rzep has an equally good changeup IMO.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Well that's a significant difference
And Rzep’s slider is much more a big breaker LOOGYish than a tight slider that he can use against RHH. He’d probably need to add a cutter or something because a career 4.66 BB/9 against RHH wouldn’t cut it.
Not afraid to nitpick
yeah I agree it's signifcant
But Jaime is like a 3.3 FIP pitcher going forward. I don’t think Rzep will be that good, but I think he’ll be below 4.
I disagree about the slider, they seem pretty similar to my eyes. Jaime does have the cutter, which is pretty useful, but Rzep might actually have a better sinker. I don’t agree with the platoon argument. Rzep has a 4.10 xFIP against righties and a 2.2 xFIP against lefties for his career, so that’s not very bad. I also don’t see why the split matters – as long as it’s balanced out on the other side.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
I definitely agree that Rzep should add a cutter
that’s probably the easiest way to improve as a pitcher.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
No way they throw similar sliders and the PITCHf/x backs that up
Rzep
Garcia
Garcia throws a much tighter slider that hides in his FB, Rzep’s is much more slurvy
Not afraid to nitpick
fair enough, rzep does have a bit more horizontal movement
but that’s balanced out by more vertical movement. you definitely want more vertical movement on your slider, no?
But on second thought, the curve and the cut fastball definitely favor Jaime hugely. Still, based on Rzep’s performance so far in the majors (in the rotation and his adjusted bullpen performance), he still looks like an above average starting pitcher.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Jaime's curve is ridiculous
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
If he could throw it for strikes, he'll make the leap
47% balls. Granted he’s throwing it in 2 strike counts most of the time, but he doesn’t have that get me over 0-0 surprise curve.
Not afraid to nitpick
His curve was regarded as his go-to pitch in the minors
pretty amazing that he developed a killer cutter AND seemingly improved his changeup a great deal between his first year in AAA and the majors.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 21, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily if it comes at the cost of velocity
And regardless, PITCHf/x movement doesn’t do a great job of rating sliders since it’s more of a bullet spin than say the topspin of a curveball. Just changing arm slot will change what the “ideal” SL PITCHf/x movement is—-and then a slider’s movement relative to that pitcher’s FB is more important too.
Lidge’s slider was one of the best in the league and PITCHf/x says it barely had any movement: .7-X, 1.2-Z.
Not afraid to nitpick
i honestly didn't even look at statistics
just from what i’ve seen of him. it’s hard to judge, i suppose, from the limited framework that we’ve used him in, but none of his pitches have really popped to my eyes. I’ve seen pretty much all of Jaime’s pitches flash plus-plus and he’s got a bazillion of them. Obviously, he can’t keep it up, but his pitches cause me to salivate at what he could be. I can’t say the same for Rzep.
I think if you did a pitch f/x analysis, they would have very similar repetoires and patterns
They’ve had very similar K, BB and GB rates over their careers (when you adjust for the bullpen translation) and seem to have very similar stuff (with the exception of the curveball, which admittedly is Jaime’s best pitch). Still, I think Rzep could easily be a 3 WAR starter in the future.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
that being the case, why not work them out as starters
Now? The staff won’t get a chance in season to see lynn or rzep start games. Even if there’s no chance of them starting games in the regular season, stretch them out and then back them off at the end of march.
If they’re serious starting options, scout them now.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 20, 2012 4:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The context is important.
This seems to be focused on the 2012 season. Matheny seems intent on developing the relievers as relievers. After the Lohse & Westbrook contracts expire, I bet Lynn is preparing to start.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Or what joker said.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I have a hard time believing the Cardinals won't sign a FA starting pitcher after this season
Leaving all the youngsters to fight it out
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 20, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
I can't imagine they WILL sign a FA starter unless one Garcia/Wainwright/Carpenter go down for the count
We’re talking about filling in #4/5 behind those three. Miller should be ready sometime in 2012 (if he’s not already), and will get a shot at the rotation in 2013 for sure barring injury. So really you’re talking one spot for 2013.
Lynn and Rzep could be ML starters now, and definitely have a chance by 2013. You’d think one of Martinez, Rosenthal or Swagerty actually will take a step forward this year and be ready by mid-2013 and ready for 2014. And Cleto, Kelly or even Dickson might take a step forward in 2012 and be able to be a #5 starter by 2013.
Not afraid to nitpick
This makes sense to me.
Spend the money in the next offseason on an impact hitter
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Feb 20, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
this seems to be the usual club policy.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 20, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
not really. I think mcclellan has prepped as a starter
For the last three seasons. Also, other relievers have worked out as starters (franklin) to improve the quality of the warm-up.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 20, 2012 4:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
last year's mcclellan is completely separate from his other's in terms of the situation.
and before that he was seen as more of a starter than a reliever.
i more meant that typically, during the season, if a guy goes down they bring up a AAA starter instead of spot starting a bullpen guy
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 20, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
yes, that last bit I agree with.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 20, 2012 4:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
then who'll be the emergency starter? brandon dickson?
Or is Matheny just saying this to keep the pressure on these three guys?
by hr on Feb 20, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose I could have just posted the whole subsection.
Should the Cardinals end up needing someone to plug a rotation vacancy, the Cardinals have some capable Triple-A options, including Brandon Dickson, who could step in. And if there were to be an injury early in camp, St. Louis could still alter the routine of someone like McClellan in order to create another starting candidate.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm cool with that
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Hell it's kind of a win win
Coming up and sucking for a few starts might be better for his development in that it’d show him what he needs to work on. If he were to come up and dominate, then all the better.
Not afraid to nitpick
I'm sure that Westbrook and Loshe are going to be preparing very well
If Miller comes up and dominates before the trade deadline, I don’t know how you send him down.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 21, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Joker, How long does Miller have to stay in the Minors before he becomes a Super 2 or whatever starts the FA clock a tickin and a tockin?
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
They changed the rules on that so I'm not all that sure
But it used to be about June 1-10, it’s probably about July 1 now.
Not afraid to nitpick
I voted for Holliday
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2012 4:47 PM EST reply actions
the original post reminds me just how fiercely terrible
Our drafts were early last decade. 2004 yielded basically not a single prospect of consequence. 2002: kyle mcclellan and brad thompson. 2003 – brendan ryan, daric barton, ian kennedy (did not sign), anthony reyes, and jason motte (a catcher at the time). 2001 – dan haren, joe mather, and skip schumaker.
Several years of terrible drafting are particularly painful in that two of the four prospects who ended up being fairly valuable in terms of career WAR (haren and barton) were traded away for one year of mark mulder. Motte seems almost an accident in retrospect, since he flopped as a catcher. And boog . . . Well, that horse is thoroughly flogged.
The rest either had ultimately unrealized potential (mather, reyes) or were unimpressive depth (mcclellan, thompson).
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 20, 2012 5:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
From what I vaguely remember
Motte was always seen as having a reliever-fallback option since he had an 80 arm.
Not afraid to nitpick
I'm excited for the debut LP from Unimpressive Depth.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 20, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope they title it "fiercely terrible."
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 20, 2012 5:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
WOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
I finally met her mom! (Nobody probably cares, but I’m a little too pumped and don’t have anywhere else readily available to brag.)
Sign Bubbie Buzachero!
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 20, 2012 6:29 PM EST reply actions
i guess her mom is pretty smokin', huh?
by prophetjohn on Feb 20, 2012 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I was going to make a mom comment, but it appears the theme has run it's course.
Instead, I would just like to extend my congratulations and best wishes to a successful relationship.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 20, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Guess I really should have added this before /ahem, edit button\
But this was the last thing standing in my way of going out with this girl. Been a long process.
Sign Bubbie Buzachero!
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 20, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
you had to meet her mom to go out with her?!
M-I-Z-D-G-B
by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 20, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Some people still have propriety Nickolas.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
it wasn't so much "going out with" as sitting on the
Porch swing, sipping lemonade together, until 8:30 when he went home to go to sleep.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 21, 2012 6:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Good luck
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Feb 20, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
He signed with the Cards last week....
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
Just say no to drugs, WMT.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 20, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Kerry Wood! Him #1 baseball pitcher!
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
Bizarro! I love you! I love you, Bizarro!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 21, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
It seems a little reductive
To write the Phillies off as being run poorly. I don’t disagree with the comments regarding the huge payroll obligations they have, but in the past five years that team has five divisional titles, two pennants, one championship, and 473 wins.
They already had a core of young players and a payroll that make it hard to lose
After years of building the farm well then the only good they’ve done is obtaining Halladay and Lee(and they overpayed for Lee) and let Jayson Werth go while they’ve signed horrendous contracts and verbally and publicly confirmed thier GMs stupidity. Yes though, they have been successful in spite of several moves that would cripple most teams that aren’t rich and already stacked
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 20, 2012 7:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I feel like that sounds snarky after reading it, sorry
Basically they have been successful but they just WAAAAAAAY overpaid for a closer and the Ryan Howard extension was so bad that there aren’t adjectives in the world to explain it’s failure. Thier GM also publicly adores RBIs
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 20, 2012 7:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And I do see your point about them not being the best singular example of a poorly run franchise
When they’ve been very successful recently
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 20, 2012 7:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think the Phiilies
are still coasting on Pat Gillick’s fumes. As BIC38 points out, they have the payroll that grants them a much larger margin for error. There are several reasons Gillick is in the HOF. The upcoming Phillie decline will reinforce Gillick’s skills.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Feb 20, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
Well that might be true
Too lazy to check the roster but aside from that rotation they assembled last year that’s mostly still Gillick’s team, isn’t it?
Those contracts are bad
True. But I don’t think you can look at a team that has won as much as the Phillies have and say they are a badly run team. The Orioles are run badly. The Mariners. The Phillies have averaged 94.6 wins per year for the last five years.
Man, beating them was sweet.
Amaro took reins in 08
Since then they have done the following stupid things, in order from “LOL” to “well that’s just dumb”:
Signed the WorstThingEver Howard contract.
Signed Papelbon to 4yr/50 while Madson being 95% as good signed for 1yr/8.5M
Signed Blanton to 3yr/24M
Signed Kyle Kendrick to 2yr/7.5M to be a worse version of Joel Pineiro, whom they have for free.
The reason they’ve been good is that they’ve been able to buy 15 wins from Lee/Halladay, whose contracts only about 4 teams in the league can afford to pay.
Not afraid to nitpick
Don't forget the part where he traded Cliff Lee to the Mariners for some magic beans...
(Though trading for Halladay and signing him to a relatively short three-year extension was a good move)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 20, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Has Oswalt announced his retirement yet?
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Feb 20, 2012 8:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Today in Oswalt:
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
Red sox have no formal offer currently on table for oswalt. (though on off chance he called, I’m sure they’d take call)
John Fay @johnfayman
Jocketty says nothing new on Oswalt. “I’m not even considering it.” #reds
Fake Twitter Post
John Mozeliak @EvilGeniusMO
Biding my time, waiting for Oswalt to call back. Drinking some red wine. Mwahahahaha.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 20, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Am I the only person who, upon seeing the picture of Yadi in today's post,
assumed he was on a Slip ’n Slide or perhaps a Crocodile Mile?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Holy shit Brandon McCarthy had a good-ass year last season
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
And he's awesome on Twitter
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
See?
BMcCarthy32: “Well if you didn’t want to get farted on, you shouldn’t have tried to cuddle,” I said to kick off Monday night’s fight.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Feb 20, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
fascinating
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Stupid sexy Flanders
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i liked when they showed him coming out of the shower that one time
and he had like a 15 inch penis.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Let's make this into a 2012 meme
Who should be stupid, sexy __________?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
"Matheny"
It’ll be for when we hate something Matheny does, but we still love him anyway because he’s handsome.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
This sounds like the right play
Who knows how to edit a gif?!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
That's why I went with Westbrook.
Matheny probably works better.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 20, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Can't force memes, they should come naturally
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Feb 20, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Note the sig
Been there since 08
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Feb 20, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Of course the Yankees are on top again
I hate the Yankees.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
was giggling at how healthy the white sox were and they still couldn't do anything
didn’t notice the cubs are right there too lol!
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
interesting that the cardinals had about the same injuries as the brewers
but more of our hitters got hurt
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
There are what, 180 days in a schedule?
The Yankees lost 8+ seasons worth of games to the DL.
Tampa lost 2.
Anyone watch Alcatraz?
Is the blonde hot or not?
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 20, 2012 11:02 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I couldn't get into Alcatraz after the 2nd episode
Where the guy is sniping people. They make a deal on how he has a special gun and only one guy could possibly sell it. But this guy has a silencer like is no big deal. A silencer is 10x harder to find than a gun.
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 20, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Sooo...
Hot or not?
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 21, 2012 12:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
She is attractive but
I would not do a double take if I saw her in real life
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 21, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
im watching it on espn3 and its funny
they still show underneath mlb scores: cardinals 6 rangers 2
by guillermozeliak on Feb 20, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That's fantastic
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 20, 2012 11:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Gotta wonder who is going to un-out-coach the other
Rick “I get 5 second called in the tournament” Barnes or Scott “I have a top 3 athletic team in the country but play zone against inferior teams” Drew.
Not afraid to nitpick
RICK BARNES COUNTER PUNCHES WITH A FOUL 40 FEET FROM THE BASKET WITH 10 ON THE SHOT CLOCK
Not afraid to nitpick
And Barnes takes an insurmountable lead with the "waste 20 seconds down by 3 with the clogged toilet offense" strategy
Not afraid to nitpick
i saw you posted and i didnt want to look
cause i knew the lag on espn3…haha….i called that game at half…had a feeling baylor was just too good
by guillermozeliak on Feb 20, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
It's remarkable how bad Barnes and Drew are at being in-game coaches
I can’t imagine why the fuck Drew ever thought playing zone with a team full of athletic 6’10 guys was a good idea.
Not afraid to nitpick
I didn't see this till after the game ended
but this is an awesome play by play of the last minute. Texas’s offense when they were down 3 with 20 seconds to go was just plain comedic.
Cardinals are 25-1 to win the WS
Look at some of these teams ahead of us, ain’t getting no respekt man
Braves 22.5-1
Reds 22-1
Marlins 20-1
I'd take those odds.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 21, 2012 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks, source? Where do the Angels place?
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
5dimes.com
offshore sports book. the odds vary from book to book. Here’s the top 10
Philadelphia Phillies +450
New York Yankees +650
Los Angeles Angels +800
Boston Red Sox +1000
Detroit Tigers +1000
Texas Rangers +1000
San Francisco Giants +1800
Miami Marlins +2000
Tampa Bay Rays +2100
Cincinnati Reds +2200
Thanks, Wombat. Very intersting. Great pic by the way. . . .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
fun fact abouts Reds Latos.
16th Highest qualified FB% in MLB last year
14th Lowest qualified HR/FB
Gotta figure the shift from Petco to GAB will make this all come crashing down on him.
*Note:I was a Latos hater before he was traded. Only magnified it since then.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 21, 2012 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
I hate Latos
…because he was terrible for my fantasy team last year and when I finally gave up and traded him he had his best two months of the season.
But I don’t think he was healthy to start the year last year, his velocity would drop 5-6 MPH later in games.
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