Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

The Battle for St. Louis Cardinals Backup Catcher: Bryan Anderson vs. Tony Cruz

1989_bgh_cropped_tiny by bgh on

Photo

Pitchers and catchers officially reporting on Saturday marked the beginning of not only Spring Training but the competition for the job of St. Louis Cardinals backup catcher that St. Louis Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak announced last fall. For the first time since the 2004 season, the Cardinals enter camp set to use a prospect from their farm system as the second-string catcher. Unlike 2004, however, the position will be filled by a good ol' fashioned Spring Training competition pitting prospects Bryan Anderson and Tony Cruz against one another.

Star-divide

As tom s. noted in yesterday's main post, Anderson would not be in contention for the role of Yadier Molina's backup if Tony La Russa were still managing the Cardinals. Shortly after La Russa's retirement, Joe Strauss of the Post-Dispatch wrote that Anderson "never earned La Russa's confidence" and was leapfrogged by Tony Cruz, who "earned praise as a capable pinch hitter and mature backstop." The negative view of Anderson's defense held by the outgoing manager was not necessarily refuted by the incoming manager earlier this week. As a former roving instructor in the Cardinals' minor league system, Mike Matheny is familiar with Anderson. In a Post-Dispatch article from last week, he discussed Anderson at length, candidly recognizing Anderson's weakness in calling games while also praising the young catcher for his attitude and working to improve.

One of the biggest knocks against him is how he relates to the pitching staff and takes the bull by the horns behind the plate. This isn't real natural for him and he's kind of had to work on that and almost force the issue. But he's made great strides with that.

Given his reputation as a less-than-stellar defensive player, Anderson is in the running for backup catcher largely because of his bat. A left-handed hitter, Anderson turned heads with an OPS of .896 in his debut season with Johnson City in rookie ball at the age of 18. Labeled a hitter at that point, this halo has followed Anderson as he has hit roughly average at every stop in his ascent up the ladder of the Cardinals' farm system. During his time in Springfield and Memphis, Anderson has provided league-average offensive production at the catching position. Here is a look at those numbers:

Year

Team

Level

Age

PA

BA

OBP

SLG

OPS

wOBA

wOBA+

2005

JC

RK

18

176

.331

.383

.513

.896

--

--

2006

QC

A

19

431

.302

.377

.417

.794

--

--

2007

SPR

AA

20

430

.299

.350

.389

.739

.339

99

2008

SPR

AA

21

86

.388

.412

.525

.937

.407

115

2008

MEM

AAA

21

275

.281

.367

.379

.746

.343

99

2009

MEM

AAA

22

174

.245

.293

.399

.692

.321

97

2010

MEM

AAA

23

302

.270

.341

.448

.789

.343

99

2011

MEM

AAA

24

378

.281

.357

.409

.766

341

96

After being labeled as "arguably" the National League's top catching prospect in the 2009 Baseball Prospectus, Anderson's numbers took a hit in 2009 due to injury and some wrote him off despite his young age. In 2010 and 2011, Anderson demonstrated that he was still the hitter he was prior to getting hurt. Even on a team full of left-handed hitters and switch-hitters, the prospect of a left-handed hitting backup capable of spelling Molina against righties is an intriguing one.

Tony Cruz was drafted as a third baseman in 2007. Cruz played as much catcher in 2008 as third base and, by 2010, his position was catcher. At 20, Cruz made his pro debut at an older age than Anderson and, with an .817 OPS as his personal best, has never posted a season as gaudy as Anderson's best. That being said, Cruz has also produced at a level roughly on par with the average of his peers at his various stops on the Future Redbirds circuit.

Year

Team

Level

Age

PA

BA

OBP

SLG

OPS

wOBA

wOBA+

2007

QC

A

20

215

.284

.340

.423

.763

.364

111

2008

PB

A+

21

378

.279

.316

427

743

.339

107

2009

SPR

AA

22

444

.220

.281

.366

.647

.301

86

2010

PB

A+

23

202

.282

.348

.398

.746

.364

115

2010

SPR

AA

23

175

.279

.356

.461

.817

.367

106

2010

MEM

AAA

23

15

.214

.267

.429

.696

.359

103

2011

MEM

AAA

24

71

.262

.324

.338

.662

.322

91

Anderson made it to St. Louis for his proverbial cup of coffee during the 2010 season and posted a line of .281/.314/.344/.658; or, a wOBA of .293 (91 OPS+) over a mere 35 PA spread out over 15 games. During Spring Training last season, Cruz outlasted Anderson in big-league camp and received the call-up when veteran backup Gerald Laird went down with an injury. Filling in for Laird, Cruz posted a solid .262/.324/.338/.662 line that equated a .308 wOBA (97 wOBA+) over just 71 PA in 38 games played. Cups of coffee in The Show aren't the most reliable indicators of future success, so let us turn to ZIPS to give us a fuller picture of what 2012 might hold for Anderson and Cruz.

Player

AB

BA

OBP

SLG

OPS

OPS+

Anderson

355

.246

.308

.358

666

82

Cruz

346

.237

.287

.352

.655

74

Unfortunately, I can't find any projections for either of these players other than ZIPS. Bill James and PECOTA don't seem to have bothered projecting either of the main competitors for the Cardinals' backup catcher. ZIPS foresees both to be fair backup catchers even if their numbers are underwhelming. (If you don't believe me, check out the numbers from the non-Eli Marrero backup catchers during the La Russa/Dunan era of 1996-2011.)

In last week's Post-Dispatch article on Anderson and the backup catcher position, Matheny noted that he was looking for conscientiousness and understanding of the catching position as well as the ability to catch, throw, and call a game. It will be interesting to see how Matheny weighs these factors in deciding whether Anderson or Cruz will break camp as the backup catcher. No matter his decision, the competition between two products of the farm system signals a philosophical shift in St. Louis in regards to the position.

Comment 431 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

More from Viva El Birdos

The St. Louis Cardinals Successfully Finish Pillaging The Memphis Redbirds

May 2012 by DanUpBaby - 774 comments

Tyler Greene Propels St. Louis Cardinals to 4-3 Victory Over San Diego Padres

May 2012 by bgh - 117 comments

St. Louis Cardinals' Errors & Walks Aid & Abet San Francisco Giants' Victory

May 2012 by bgh - 213 comments

With 6-4 Loss To Chicago Cubs, St. Louis Cardinals Drop Fourth In A Row

May 2012 by bgh - 63 comments

Justifying a Narrow Implementation of the Sacrifice Bunt

May 2012 by azruavatar - 131 comments

The St. Louis Cardinals' Newest Hitting Binges

May 2012 by DanUpBaby - 1123 comments

Around SB Nation

Washington Nationals' Michael Morse's Lat Issues Updated; Gio Gonzalez's Long Day.

Mar 2012 from Federal Baseball - 32 comments

Is Chipper Jones the last true franchise player?

Mar 2012 from Beyond the Box Score - 1 comment

Montero Seeks Martinez Contract

Mar 2012 from MLB Daily Dish - 0 comments

Detroit 6, Baltimore 4: Duane Below leaves door open for Drew Smyly, Gerald Laird injures knee

Mar 2012 from Bless You Boys - 27 comments

Detroit Tigers Links: Brandon Inge's Groin Injury & Mike Trout Optioned to Triple-A

Mar 2012 from Bless You Boys - 7 comments

Read More: mike matheny, john mozeliak, tony la russa, Gerald Laird (C - DET), Yadier Molina (C - STL), Bryan Anderson (C - STL), Eli Marrero (C - STL), Tony Cruz (C - STL), St. Louis Cardinals

Comments

Display:

Any Chance

they both stick. Cruz plays multiple positions and Anderson is a left handed bat who could pinch hit.

by Warcard on Feb 19, 2012 8:18 AM EST reply actions  

if LH PH is needed

it’s (unfortunately) going to be Skip. Anderson’s only chance to make the ML roster is to win the backup catcher’s job.

by gocards62 on Feb 19, 2012 8:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think there's any chance of that happening.

Neither Cruz nor Anderson are better hitters than other bench options, nor are they good defenders at non-C positions.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree no chance of keeping both

mainly because Cruz needs experience catching (converted infielder). He has only caught 231 games as a professional!!! Anderson has caught more than double the number of games as Cruz despite missing 1/2 a season due to injury. Also, there seems to be little benefit to be had from keeping Cruz’s bat for pinch hitting duties.

by jjray on Feb 19, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

BASEBALL!

Leave favorite memories of Jim Edmonds here

by a fink on Feb 19, 2012 8:53 AM EST reply actions  

About time to watch the baby birds have at it

I was puzzled by the absence of Koyie Hill in this article though. How much competition does he represent for Anderson and Cruz?…

by JWO on Feb 19, 2012 9:14 AM EST reply actions  

I think he's mostly just another backstop to have around

for workouts and split-squad games, and depth at Memphis. I doubt that he has any real shot at going north.

Looks like BBTF is down right now, or I’d pull up Hill’s ZiPS.

Retire #52!

by The Continental on Feb 19, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions  

iirc, his zips was for a 57 ops+; kozmaesque.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Feb 19, 2012 1:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

If you were puzzled about the absence of Koyie Hill in a discussion of big-league catchers,

you don’t know Koyie Hill.

"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie

by hazel on Feb 19, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I would think Anderson is done if he doesn't make the roster

This is his time. I’m anxious to see him and hopes he makes the leap. I’ll be a lot happier if he is playing backup to Yadi’s four year extension.

Just win

by The Duke on Feb 19, 2012 9:16 AM EST reply actions  

I don't get the feeling that Cruz has any "real" future in baseball

That may be a bit harsh, but he seems like prototypical filler that bounces back and forth given the need. If Anderson doesn’t make it then either, I am completely wrong (quite possible) or he is not going to succeed with us. So…. yeah, I agree… with the second part, too.

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Anderson is still younger than most of the Cards prospects that have joined the team in the last few years.

Other than top prospects like Jamie and Colby.

"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie

by hazel on Feb 19, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

He's also used up more options.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Feb 19, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

He's also 4 months younger than Cruz.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 19, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Dilegua, o notte! Tramontate, stelle! Tramontate, stelle!

All’alba base-a-ball… base-a-ball… BASE-A-BAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Feb 19, 2012 9:49 AM EST reply actions  

Nessun dorma, nessun dorma

Tu pure, o, ippogrifo
Nella tua fredda cantina
Guardi gli minori
Che tramano d’amore
E di speranza.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Here are the PECOTA Projections

Anderson: .239/.299/.363 True Average .241
Cruz: .229/.277/.336 True Average .227

by tarakas on Feb 19, 2012 10:22 AM EST reply actions  

For context

Laird in 2011: .232/.302/.358
LaRue in 2010: .196/.274/.321

by mojowo11 on Feb 19, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

They should fit in nicely

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Why BP continues to feel the need to be out on their own with metrics like

“True Average” is beyond me. It’s so frustrating because it’s vastly more difficult to contextualize a .241 TA than a .330 wOBA.

Beware: Velociraptors may be present.

by azruavatar on Feb 19, 2012 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

but... SIERA!

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Feb 19, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I believe they revised a few things

I know some of the interaction effects were actually reversed when what’s his name released it.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Feb 19, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Also how the shit is SIERA better than PECOTA?

they should just use SIERA for projections if that’s actually the case and throw out the comparables.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Feb 19, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

No clue

I remember Seidman detailing a lot of ways that it was better than just the FIP or whatever that I assume PECOTA is based on.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Feb 19, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

isn't TA just EQA?

if so, I think it’s like wOBA only averaged at .260, like batting average. I always liked it.

by DanUpBaby on Feb 19, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

This is correct.

At least according to the BP glossary.

Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub

by Cardinals645 on Feb 19, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I don't see why basing something on OBP makes a stat any easier to contextualize than BA

We’re pre-conditioned to pay more attention to OBP being stat-oriented fans (and having used wOBA for years now) I guess. But that’s accidental, not essential.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

it would be nice if they were on the same scale

because that would allow for easier comparisons. And since wOBA has become more dominant in this age, BPro should be the one changing. They don’t have to of course, and I don’t really care because I don’t use BPro anyway.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Feb 19, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's a good point

They could always alter it without actually changing how it works, right?

Anyway, if it’s simply an inferior stat to wOBA then that’s a different argument.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, the scale can be changed easily

and as far as I know TAv uses the same formula (linear weights) as wOBA, so they are going to be roughly the same. TAv is park adjusted, where as wOBA isn’t on FanGraphs (but it is on Statcorner).

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Feb 19, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah

I didn’t realize they were so similar. In that case I guess it really doesn’t make much sense to keep those stats on the BA scale.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Do they publish league average numbers?

The scale isn’t that important, although I think the “right” thing to do would be to adopt the “industry” standard of wOBA, but rather that you have to assume the baseline.

I can tell you the league wOBA for any season in the last decade in about three mouse clicks.

Beware: Velociraptors may be present.

by azruavatar on Feb 19, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

No, they are different.

TAv is a linear-weights based system.
BP glossary page for TAv

True Average is now a linear-weights based system and a full entry is forthcoming. For now, check Colin’s introduction to TAv here and here.

A full entry hasn’t been delivered yet, though.

On the other hand, EqA is not based upon linear-weights formulas, though it gives similar results.
EqA detalis

Cardinals fan from Korea; Midwest-Far East Alliance

by FreeRedbird on Feb 20, 2012 1:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Garrett Wittels and the story of the rape allegations against him were just featured on ESPN's Outside the Lines

Luhnow was interviewed too. Seemed clear that teams stayed away from him because of the pending charges and the PR ramifications (the charges were later dropped and Wittles then signed a FA deal).

Also seemed pretty clear, IMO, that the charges against him and his friends were bogus.

I don’t think he probably has the baseball talent to make it to the Majors, but at least he’ll get his chance.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 10:35 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah, I agree that the allegations are likely untrue abdif they are it statutory rape, not rape

And it’s not like little kids, she was 17 (legal here!) and I’m intrigued by him being a SS but during the hitting streak some people here mentioned he probably never makes the show

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 19, 2012 11:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

He wears underwear on his head.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 19, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I've been reading a bunch of the top prospect lists

and its not clear to me what the lists are trying to portray. Are they identifying players with the most upside, with the highest chance of obtaining a roster spot, the most likely to contribute to the major league team as currently constructed, the most likely to have “value” either for the roster or in trade?

It seems to me that when I read the descriptions, it feels like Wong and Miller are our top prospects by my definition which is players who will ultimately make major contributions to the major league club or could be traded and bring back major league talent.

Matt Adams is an interesting name. If Albert had signed, would Adams be as high on most people’s lists? Taveras and Martinez are too far away to have a view so I assume they are on list because of his upside, but I don’t find those projections very helpful as they are too far away to really know.

Seems like Hamilton should get more press. Won’t this guy be on some team’s major league roster pretty shortly? and if so, wouldn’t he be a top prospect. Same with Matt Carpenter

Just win

by The Duke on Feb 19, 2012 10:42 AM EST reply actions  

The major prospect lists (Law, BA, BP, Sickels) do not place value on prospects relative

To the roster situation of the ML team. In other words, Matt Adams’s prospect status does not change based on whether Albert stays or goes or whether Adams has a clearer path to the Majors.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's the vibe I get

I think list are mentioning Adams’ new found opportunity because it is interesting and tells the reader more about him, but not because it changes the ranking.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Theoretically...

but I don’t think that is true.

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I guess it's possible either way

If you’re correct, that would mean that the person doing the ranking could be knowingly ranking inferior players ahead of superior players based on roster situation. That seems like a lot of extra work to do (i.e. sort through all the teams’ roster situations for accuracy), and I would hope that if they do that they are acknowledging it somewhere so the reader isn’t confused.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

That's exactly why the prospect lists don't do it like that.

They do not not rank inferior prospects ahead of superior ones, based on some notion of better future opportunity (and it’d be silly to do so anyway, especially for guys in A ball and below) and they do not try to parse ML rosters in addition to actually scouting and evaluating the actual prospects.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Quite the opposite,

I think that most look at them independently, but when you are blocked by as high profile a guy as Pujols, I think you get diminished because of potential trade value.

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Hamilton disappointed last year quite a bit

He was already borderline (IMO), and therefore he was bumped down quite a bit when given the organizational depth at his lone position.

Matt Carpenter is underappreciated due to his OBP heavy OPS.

As for the Martinez and Taveras of the world, with upside like that you don’t piss off the masters, they might pull an “Albert” and bounce town otherwise.

No, Adams would not be as high if Albert had signed.

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I think is incorrect.

The major prospect lists do not take into account individual team’s ML rosters when grading prospects. They do not base rankings or change rankings based on ML roster considerations. If you can cite links from BP, BA,Keith Law, John Sickels or other major prospectors that say otherwise, please do.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

nah, it was subjective

…its 130 in the morning here and I’m half way through my second bottle of wine,so…..

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

How is Wong farther ahead then Taveras?

I thought they were both in A-ball?

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 19, 2012 12:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Right.

Wong is a college hitter who is older than Taveras, as well. Taveras spent the entire season in the Quad Cities while Wong spent a half-season because he was drafted in 2011. I bet Wong starts the season in Springfield and Taveras starts the season in Palm Beach. Wong may make the big leagues in 2013 while Taveras likely won’t until 2014 or later, if I had to guess.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Feb 20, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Yo Steve Hill

We know you’re fat and can kind of hit when healthy and a little bit chicken fried, but we’re gonna just ignore you, ya dig? —Cardinals

#givelancechants

by Brian_K on Feb 19, 2012 10:50 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

they don't want to ruin that pristine

.688 MLB wOBA…

"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946

by SleepyCA on Feb 19, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

If Anderson and Cruz project similarly, offensively.....

at the ML level, is there really any reason NOT to give the job to the better defender?

And not that this is a major deal, b/c most managers aren’t going to pinch hit their backup catcher, but we have a larger need for right handed hitters on the bench, not another lefty.

by Stanley1 on Feb 19, 2012 10:51 AM EST reply actions  

Its hard for me to hold a serious conversation about who is the better defender

I don’t have a solid opinion, given a lack of exposure and experience. In as far as picking opposite hitting catchers strategically, I would pick the opposite of my starting catcher because it gives you an excuse to sit your starting catcher (I feel like some catchers might fight you tooth and nail, not to mention the SP).

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

4 seasons at AAA for Anderson.

That’s got to feel like purgatory.

Retire #52!

by The Continental on Feb 19, 2012 10:58 AM EST reply actions  

nah, investment

Wait, they didn’t tell you to buy a house?

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Android app users:

You can now open links nested in the comments. Sort of. Press and hold on the link and you’ll have the option to copy the URL. Woo hoo!

If this has already been mentioned, well, someone missed it I’m sure.

2011 - Year of Our Berk

by spants on Feb 19, 2012 11:24 AM EST via Android app reply actions  

i think cruz has the upper hand going into ST

some of that is probably because we have a lot of lefty bats on the bench, and we’re in need of righties – so anderson might get screwed over once again.

but i also think that anderson has a good shot at being the backup C. in my mind, this is anderson’s last shot. if he doesn’t get this, odds are he’s done. in a lot of ways, it’s a shame, considering anderson has been highly regarded for quite some time.

i hadn’t realized that anderson and cruz were pretty similar offensively. from the sounds of things, it seems like cruz is a better defender, but i haven’t seen enough of anderson to judge that. whoever wins the job will do just fine.

twitter

by zoomzoomj88 on Feb 19, 2012 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

To be honest,

I don’t know if it matters a whole hell of a lot if Cruz, Anderson, or even Steven Hill or Koyie Hill win the job. I’d rather them just get the guy who calls the best game and the guy the pitchers trust the most. Apparently that is not Bryan Anderson, according to stuff I’ve read about him over the years (though they say he’s improving). Ultimately, I prefer Cruz to win it because I trust him to control the running game more than any of the others and I don’t think the offensive differences are enough to quibble about considering how much they’ll actually play. Cruz certainly looked impressive behind the plate last year..

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I did find it interesting that Matheny talked about how Cruz

has never caught more than 72 games in a season, while Anderson has been an everyday catcher his whole career just about. Kinda sounded like if Yadi went down, Anderson would be the guy even if he wasn’t the ML backup

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure how exactly Anderson has been "screwed over."

He apparently didn’t impress the previous ML coaching staff or the pitchers themselves with his game-calling. His defense hasn’t gotten good reports, such that there are reports. And he’s been in Memphis for four years now and his hitting has stalled out at just below AAA league average. That’s ok for a catcher, but it’s not like he’s been breaking the door down.

As for this being his “last shot,” meh. He has one more option left and he’s just 25. If Cruz gets the backup job, he’ll split AAA duties with Hill and be ready in case of injury to either Yadi or Cruz. And there aren’t any catcher prospects below him that are pressing for AAA time.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

His catching skills appear to be legit.

If he can hit even just a little bit, I’ll bet he becomes a guy that teams seak out…like a Jose Molina kinda career.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess I'm just not sold on him hitting consistently

and its hard to quantify his defensive capabilities, although a Ladunc certification is pretty nice.

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Anderson won't prevent Cruz from having a long career in MLB.

he might cause him some PT the next year or 2 at most, but back to the original point..

Have a feeling that cruz will end up being a pretty decent mlb catcher

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

oh, agree... a prospect won't stand in the way of another prospect long term

Although, I’m not sold on Cruz’s ability to translate prospectdom into a major league role.

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

that's how I feel about Anderson.

Matheny has said some nice things about him, but the vibe I’ve gotten is the pitchers don’t care for him and his defense isn’t great. Haven’t seen him play much, but he doesn’t really sound like what most teams are looking for in a backup C and he certainly isn’t a starter.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Baserunners have been taking advantage of Anderson's arm too.

he “allowed” 78 SB’s in only 92 games last season while throwing out just 24%.

Cruz has thrown out 44% in the minors. That’s Yadi-esque.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

That's all well and good,

but the minors seem to be littered with players who can throw runners out and not hit. The only substantiation that Cruz can hit even decently is his <100 ABs in the Major Leagues.

Anderson seems to project to hit, and while his detriment is his defense… Matheny has advocated that very thing from previous years (read: before he was manager).

Its not that I think one is absolutely better than the other, but defense is less predictable and Matheny, at least publicly, advocates Bryan’s defense.

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Generally speaking,

I think most teams value a good defensive backup catcher over a guy who isn’t so good defensively, but can hit a little bit.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, looking at our rotation..

Carpenter and Wainwright will almost certainly always be throwing to Yadi.

Garcia and Westbrook had trouble keeping runners close last season, so you wouldn’t want them throwing to Anderson.

That leaves Lohse, who is really good at keeping runners close. At this point it’s really a matter of how Lohse and Anderson gel together.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

umm, it's hardly a foregone conclusion that cruz

Is a worse hitter.see those offensive stats up top? Cruz’s woba+’s are almost all above 100, while anderson’s have been a tick below that.

Anderson has been doing reasonably well at a higher level, so that has to be taken into account, but there’s surely an argument that cruz could become a better hitter.

At any rate cruz’s 100 PAs in the majors is not the “only” evidence that he’s a good hitter. He’s been above average at almost every level.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Feb 19, 2012 2:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Well..

somewhere between Alberto Castillo and Jose Molina anyway.

It still beats selling insurance.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I like Anderson better

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Feb 19, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Just got back from a week in Phoenix (with a day skiing in flagstaff)

Angels have their camp down there. There are several billboards with Pujols on them, which say “happening now” in both Spanish and English. Kinda depressing seeing them. BUT,

Maybe having Pujols with a southern California team will get some more interest from the Mexican population. (yes, i know he isn’t Mexican.) Could be really good for baseball.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Feb 19, 2012 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

I think from an advertising point, it could be very beneficial for them.

We just don’t have the type of draw in the Hispanic population, while they will still draw all of the baseball fans that we typically would.

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Is "Happening Now" the Angels attempt at "It's Gonna Happen"?

This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.

- Jackie Brown

by Tackle Box on Feb 19, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

no

It’s the angels attempt at letting everyone know Pujols is currently playing in phoenix at their spring training facility.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Feb 19, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

How far does he hit the urinal from?

"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie

by hazel on Feb 19, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

some times 10 ft!

sometimes 1, depending on the frame

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't know.

i didn’t have any prompts. using firefox

who let the cards out?

by adiueordie on Feb 19, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah,

it wants me to download a “Babylon9_setup” or something.

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks

is that your normal source? I was struggling with a couple

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

the wiziwig forum

usually has something that works for me. some of the links can be annoying, though.

who let the cards out?

by adiueordie on Feb 19, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

sounds sketchy

this works in chrome on ubuntu 11.10 just fine with no plugins

#occupysesamestreet

by prophetjohn on Feb 19, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Halak and Elliott really this good?

Or could we throw pretty much anyone back there right now?

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 1:36 PM EST reply actions  

Both to some degree

Elliot is currently sporting the highest save percentage of all time, that takes all aspects to be awesome.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Feb 19, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I love Crombeen.

And Anderson. No way it’s not him backing up Yadi this April.

by openside on Feb 19, 2012 1:38 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

I'm a GLOCK guy.

What are you talking about?

by openside on Feb 19, 2012 1:46 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Heh.

If serious: I would get to pick your signature if Cruz goes north. Then again, if you use mobile most of the time, you never see sigs, so…

Retire #52!

by The Continental on Feb 19, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

hope remains
When asked about adding Roy Oswalt or anyone else, Cardinals GM John Mozeliak told reporters, “We’re always open for business here,” tweets Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com

.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 2:10 PM EST reply actions  

how much?

this can be arranged

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think that's likely

but he may just sit back and wait until someone needs a pitcher.

Retire #52!

by The Continental on Feb 19, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Why?

You think he’s hurt?

I do find it pretty odd he hasn’t found a team yet. I know he has limited his options with only wanting to play for a few teams but since all those rumors back about a month ago, its been really quiet. I know that doesn’t mean he isn’t close to signing somewhere, but i’m surprised ST has started and he’s still a FA.

by mick311 on Feb 19, 2012 3:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Thanks, MLBTR!
On this day in 1982, the Padres traded Ozzie Smith, Steve Mura, and Al Olmsted to the Cardinals for Luis DeLeon, Sixto Lezcano and Garry Templeton. The trade was sparked by both Smith and Templeton having issues with their respective teams. Here’s a look at today’s links..

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 2:33 PM EST reply actions  

dammit...

shutout streak over.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 2:33 PM EST reply actions  

Just watched game 6 for the first time stone cold sober - tension was absolutely ridiculous.

I’m sure someone had commented on this before, but it’s interesting that at the most nerve-racking moments, they would pan to the dugout to show Carp laughing and cutting up. Almost like he didn’t give a fuck.

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Feb 19, 2012 2:37 PM EST reply actions  

That's so good, someone should make a meme out of it!

Something like “Chris Carpenter almost didn’t give a f***”

Nah, you’re right…it would never catch on.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

by mtzxc on Feb 19, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm re-watching Game 6 today as well.

Just finished the top of the fourth. I’d forgotten how painful that half-inning was.

by peach concrete on Feb 19, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

From @BJRains:
Molina said the two sides talked about a contract extension but have stopped, “for now.”…Did say he was open to re-engage.

Also:

Molina on embracing Wainwright after his bullpen session: “I was waiting on that moment since last year.”

LINK

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Feb 19, 2012 2:58 PM EST reply actions  

Good to hear Molina has talked about an extension and is open to further talks

My fear is that it is just a facade and he is on his way to Anaheim after this season. A catcher who is strong defensively and is adequate-to-good with the stick is well worth overpaying a bit for since today’s article by bgh highlights the minor league pipeline isn’t anything to get much excited about.

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Feb 19, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

the loss of ap and yadi would be pretty huge for the fanbase

mo and dewitt better screw their damn heads on straight and take some decisive action soon

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm not gonna get too attached

i like yadi, but i’d groom a replacement..if there is one

Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman

by punchinjudy on Feb 19, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

there isn't one

and yadi’s loss after ap will be a huge loss to the mainstream fan, not to mention VEB

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know... I might have agreed with you last year,

but there has been very little anger directed at the organization in the wake of AP’s leaving, from what I can tell. We’ll see what the turnstiles report, though.

Leave favorite memories of Jim Edmonds here

by a fink on Feb 19, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

We won the World Series this year.

So I think there is probably a bit of a honeymoon effect, even with Albert. And at least some understanding of the Albertross contract that we would have been stuck with.

I don’t know about fan anger if Molina leaves. I think signing a promising (but cheaper or younger) free agent catcher after letting him go would ease a lot. But I’m not sure we can gauge it simply based on this year’s reaction to Pujols.

Of course, we could just make the situations truly parallel (by winning in 2012, too), and just find out….

Play ball!

by IL and StL Fan on Feb 19, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

i think the reaction will be different

but seeing two home grown favs leave two years in a row wouldnt be fun. I love yadi cause I caught and what he does behind the plate I havent seen done at his level before.

I still believe he is underrated. If he hit 20 hrs a yr and did what he does i think he’d get more love..just my opinion

Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman

by punchinjudy on Feb 19, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

All we have to

do is win 12 in ‘12 and we’ll tolerate a lot.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 19, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah i agree

but i’d say the odds are thin, but so was it in 11

Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman

by punchinjudy on Feb 19, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Good points. I hope we don't find out!

(I mean, about him leaving. Not the winning 2012 bit. That’d do.)

Leave favorite memories of Jim Edmonds here

by a fink on Feb 19, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Reaves with the cheapshot

YE OLDE TYME HOCKEY!

by openside on Feb 19, 2012 3:05 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

two wrongs still make a right, though, right?

I mean, the dude earned the cheap shot for the cheap shot he gave Pietrangelo from behind.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Feb 19, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Who is the better hitting prospect? (w/o trying to figure out who the players are)

26y/o — 535 PAs, 12 HRs, .302/.419/.465/.885, wOBA .396, .331 BABIP, 15.7 BB%

27y/o — 609 PAs, 20 HRs, .321/.413/.528./.941, wOBA .412, .368 BABIP, 12.6 BB%

Both are LH batters.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 3:33 PM EST reply actions  

Hm

Are these both at the same level?

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Heh. I accidentally figured out who one of them was right after I posted that (it basically just hit me and I was right)

Hm. I’d say they’re actually about even. (I wasn’t asking to figure out who they were by the way, I just wanted to make sure it was an apples to apples comparison)

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

more sustainable BABIP, and higher walk rate...

a slightly more reasonable age to still be playing in AAA.

Not thrilled about either

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Now that I know who they are..

I stand by this. Carpenter may have a nice career as a sub, and I don’t think Mark Hamilton will wind up cracking 300 career PA’s

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably. Carpenter's true advantage is that he is not as limited defensively as Hamilton.

What got me thinking about this was someone’s statement upthread that Hamilton disappointed last year while Carpenter was underappreciated because of his OBP-heavy numbers. Interestingly, Hamilton had a higher OBP than Carpenter did last year.

Here’s another interesting stat: For each year from 2009-2011, Mark Hamilton had a higher wOBA+ (116 SPR-2009, 117 MEM-2009, 118 MEM-2010, 113 MEM-2011) than Matt Adams did last year in SPR (112). Matt Adams was 22 y/o, and Hamilton was 24-27 during those years.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Matt Carpenter has to be one

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

by mtzxc on Feb 19, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

No idea who the other is...

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

by mtzxc on Feb 19, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

is this craig and freese?

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I got one of them right, didn't I...

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

by mtzxc on Feb 19, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Correct.

Hamilton’s line above is a compilation of his 2010 and 2011 seasons.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahhhh

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess that's why I wasn't finding it

I basically combed through batting leaderboards for AAA the last few years and came up with no matches. Clever you!

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

i missed the lefty hitters part

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

As an aside I can't remember why VEB never got excited about Brown

His hitting profile looks like Craig only with lower BA but higher BB%. Age/level? Awful defense?

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

i was very impressed by brown ... he had the presence of a vet as soon as he came up

altough i hated the contact preserving glasses

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Craig's and Brown's minor league hitting profiles were very similar.

Their ages and levels were also similar (Brown had an injury that held him back for one-half season). Brown’s defense was supposedly bad but reports were spotty (as they were for Craig in the minors).

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

See, that's kind of how I thought I remembered it

Is Brown no longer with the team? I can’t even remember that.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Unfortunately all of this gives me pause in my optimistic expectations for Craig

But I think he can be a capable corner outfielder.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah freese is like 29 isn't he?

figured i was wrong

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Offhand I'd guess the first one, citing the age and walk rate mostly and the lower BABIP.

But I’d like to see the numbers BABIP adjusted before saying for certain.

Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub

by Cardinals645 on Feb 19, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

First player

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Feb 19, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I would go for prospect number 1. his

Production is only moderately less than #2 by wOBA, and with the lower BABIP and lower HR rate, and higher walk rate, his performance seems less likely to be luck driven.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Feb 19, 2012 7:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

hey, i just remembered i don't have to work TOMORROW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

you suck.

and sunday is normally azruvatar’s day and monday is bgh’s. normally.

M-I-Z-D-G-B

by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 19, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

not rubbing it in ... but did just remember that

i never remember holidays that aren’t christmas or … well nothing so bonus!

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

i would murder to have tomorrow off.

we get MLK day off but not president’s day. it blows.

M-I-Z-D-G-B

by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 19, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

that's wrong fang .. you should form a protest

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Once again, it's a Sunday.

Once again, I have a paper I should be writing
Once again, I am on VEB instead.
/procrastination

Sign Bubbie Buzachero!

by cardinalswsbound on Feb 19, 2012 4:22 PM EST reply actions  

I finished my work...I procrastinate much less now that I am teaching children.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions

by ClemsonGirl on Feb 19, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I am shocked, shocked I say, that Molina will not be giving a hometown discount to the Cards.

The catcher said he would be open to re-engaging in contract talks if the Cardinals approached him. But one thing he likely won’t do is take a hometown discount to stay in St. Louis if he feels he can make more money elsewhere.
“I don’t know about that," Molina said. "Like I always say, I like the town and I like the city, but at the same time, I have to think about my family. You have to worry about your family like they worry about the team. This is business. If I get good money, I’ll take it. If not, I’ll go away."

http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/02/19/12/Molina-Cards-put-contract-talks-on-hold/landing_stlcardinals.html?blockID=669176&feedID=3713

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 4:39 PM EST reply actions  

The club should say they agree to Molina's terms

Then not show up when they agree to meet to sign the papers.

#givelancechants

by Brian_K on Feb 19, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

did that really happen?

with Ap hadnt heard that side

Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman

by punchinjudy on Feb 19, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you making stuff up?

Or is this for real?

2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please

by VolsnCards5 on Feb 19, 2012 5:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

4/10-12

if he doesn’t accept he can “go away”

M-I-Z-D-G-B

by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 19, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Molina

Is he worth a slight overpay, given that it would be really nice to have him around when guys like Miller/Martinez and whomever reach the minors? Waino and Carp will adjust to whomever, but I’d like these young guys to learn under Molina if at all possible.

by Stanley1 on Feb 19, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we can afford to overpay Molina,

if we quit overpaying for 4th and 5th starters.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea, I feel the same. We have a ton of payroll flexibility going forward,

And with guys like Martinez, Miller, Lynn, Cleto, Kelly, etc. filling out the back half of the rotation, I wouldn’t mind seeing us slightly overpay to keep Yadi.

by mick311 on Feb 19, 2012 6:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure Miller and Martinez reached the minors awhile ago...

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 19, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I would never presume to know what someone else means on the interwebz

’cause when you presume, you make a pres of u and me……….

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 19, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

That's not how the saying goes...

It’s, “when we make assumptions, we make an ass out of u and mption”

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

when was the last time someone said they would?

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Feb 19, 2012 7:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

sbn'd

I guess “*” do weird things -

In any event, the asterisk was to mean that the answer was he result of a 2-second and surely not correct

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Another question I have on prospect lists

How does Tony Cruz end up on the roster and potentially our long term backup catcher but never shows up on prospect lists? I think you can probably find any number of players that make it to the big leagues and never appear on the radar. Why is that?

Just win

by The Duke on Feb 19, 2012 5:25 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

What kind of prospect list are you referencing?

Tony Cruz would likely be listed on a team-specific prospect list. For example, in this one, he’s No. 16. http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/1135525.html

If you’re talking about a national prospect list (like a top 100 from Baseball America), he’s just not good enough to be on those. (If he’s No. 16 on the Cards list, then he’d be something like No. 360-540 leaguewide).

As for how that happens — Lots of players that end up having ML careers were C-level prospects.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

ok -- he's 16th on an all Cardinals list after having played in the Majors last year

basically, he was completely off the radar prior to that — I just think it is interesting how much time we spend talking about Swagerty or Stock or Kozma, but we don’t even see guys like Cruz coming. Feels like a failure of the process to me.

Just win

by The Duke on Feb 19, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

it doesn't help that much of cruz's value is tied up

In catcher defense, which is remarkably hard to assess. But some low-ceiling role players just don’t fit a lot of prospect-watchers’ ideals for what kind of upside a player should have (e.g., brandon dickson), even if their chances of making it to the majors in a small role are very high.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Feb 19, 2012 7:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Actually, he was 16th on the 2011 version of that list too...

http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/1027840.html

So he was not off the radar even before playing in the majors. (In fact his position on the prospect list did not move even after his ML time). And before then, for the 2009 season, he wasn’t a full time catcher (he started out as a 3Bman). Doesn’t look like a failure in the process, IMO.

As for how much time is spent talking about prospects, that’s probably not a good proxy for your point. Kozma was a 1st RD pick, so that’s why he gets talked about, and the vast majority of talk is about him not being a good prospect. I don’t think Swagerty gets talked about much, but even then, he’s a better prospect than Cruz. As for Stock, again, I don’t see tons of talk about him, but he was a high round selection; he’s more interesting because of the pitcher/catcher position switch possibility.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty much.

You see the same with LOOGYs, or really any sort of specialist that doesn’t have multiple facets to their game. Its rare to see all-glove-terrible-bat guys very high up on lists, but they can be long term players as well. Even someone like Craig, may slip through the cracks because they don’t have a position, but instead are forced into lineups because of their hitting skill. Also guys that ‘pay their dues’ in the minors will move up assuming that they can play at or slightly above each level of the minors. Eventually they will get their shot at the big club, or someone else’s organization (rule 5 draft, MLFA).

To sum it up:role players are not ranked high, but they are role players for a reason. they have value doing what they do.

Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6

by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 19, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

...

this is funny and i’m gonna leave it here

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 5:36 PM EST reply actions  

derp

Rafael Furcal @RAFAEL_FURCAL Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
I like big butts and I cannot lie….

by Wombat x on Feb 19, 2012 6:26 PM EST reply actions  

I thought people figured out it was a joke account like 3 months ago

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Feb 19, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

makes gives

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Feb 19, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd for the last sentence.

Leave favorite memories of Jim Edmonds here

by a fink on Feb 19, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

How is this not flag'd?

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2012 1:45 AM EST up reply actions  

who will mod the mods?

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2012 1:59 AM EST up reply actions  

you cannot know yourself

or what you’d really do with all that power.

With all that power, what would you do?

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2012 2:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Très bien
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
Oh wow…Canadiens take to ice for warmups wearing #8 “Carter” jerseys. Great touch.

It's Spring Again!

by TBender on Feb 19, 2012 6:28 PM EST reply actions  

Man, real talk sucks.

I prefer happy, naive chit chat.

Sign Bubbie Buzachero!

by cardinalswsbound on Feb 19, 2012 7:05 PM EST reply actions  

tnwss

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Feb 19, 2012 7:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

exactly.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Feb 20, 2012 12:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

By the way

Yes, Soulard did indeed get weird

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Feb 19, 2012 7:41 PM EST reply actions  

Anybody else imagine Scrubs when they read this?
Pitching prospect Tyrell Jenkins glowed when he talked about how Chris Carpenter called him ‘buddy’ during today’s workouts.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Feb 19, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Called him "buddy" because he couldn't remember Jenkins' real name...

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 19, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

At least

it’s better than “meat.”

by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 19, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Hm

It would reminded me of Scrubs a lot more if Carpenter had called Jenkins “Ghandi” or “Bowling Ball”… but Jenkins probably isn’t bald so nevermind.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Feb 19, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Or "Chocolate Bear"

Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub

by Cardinals645 on Feb 19, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions  

yup

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Feb 19, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

must have some veb readers

they totally ignored her segment and critiques the heading?

Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman

by punchinjudy on Feb 19, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

she seems to have a knack for finding good stories

And she writes well, with a good sense of humor.

I thought it was interesting to hear that rzepczynski had been ill. Medical students everywhere hope that it’s nothing as yet undiagnosed, because “rzepczynski’s disease” would be too cruel.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Feb 19, 2012 9:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

i havent followed her

but i don’t like it when you write a big post and all some says is “spelling” or in that case I’d chaneg the title..

i liked what i had read of her.

Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman

by punchinjudy on Feb 19, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope he doesn't have La Russa's disease...

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Feb 20, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I admit it.

When I scrolled down and saw the beginning of your comment, I immediately thought it would be about Downton Abbey. I laughed, I cried, I peed in an old wine bottle so I didn’t have to miss anything.

Leave favorite memories of Jim Edmonds here

by a fink on Feb 19, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

CCDGAF?
Chris Carpenter’s session appeared to go just fine, though I got my first taste of how competitive this guy really is. When he was not happy with a pitch he threw — and remember, this is Day 1 of Spring Trianing — he’d yell at himself. No joke.

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

get used to it lady

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 6:56 AM EST up reply actions  

K-Rod saga continues.

Warning: Bob Nightengale ahead.
Francisco Rodriguez mulls legal action against former agents

Rodriguez, making $11.5 million in 2011 in the final year of his three-year, $37 million contract with the New York Mets, thought he had a provision in his contract stipulating 10 teams to which he would not accept a trade, including the Brewers. Yet after discovering in July that a no-trade provision was never filed on his behalf, he fired Kinzer and Tellem and hired Scott Boras. He was traded a few days later to Milwaukee.

…and a little hyperbole.

“They did something atrocious,” (K-Rod’s attorney) Johnson said. “Their arrogance makes this so evil. It’s like rear-ending somebody but instead of stopping your car and trading insurance information they blew up the car and ran away. They committed negligence and turned it into a fraud case.”

Retire #52!

by The Continental on Feb 19, 2012 10:21 PM EST reply actions  

Just evil

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Feb 19, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

evillLLLLLLL?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ucZsJQxbQ

Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman

by punchinjudy on Feb 19, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent ...

A distracted pitcher in the Brewers’ bullpen can only be good for us!

by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 19, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

A number of years ago, the Mets pen planted tomatoes. . . Think that's when they had Seaver, Ryan, Gentry et al. . . .

Pen had a lot of time to watch over the crops. .. .

Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken

by akaitori on Feb 19, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

seems like a very unpopular case to bring while

Still in Milwaukee. A major question would be how he was damaged, which (since the brewers made it to the NLCS, and are thus not a terrible team from a success perspective) would require him to argue that being in milwaukee is terrible and awful.

Not that you couldn’t make that claim, but it puts you in a weird position with the fans. And accepting arb from milwaukee in the off-season tends to undercut claims of how terrible it was.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Feb 20, 2012 12:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

based on the article,

it seems that he’s claiming he was damaged by not being used as a closer and being forced to accept arbitration to continue to not be a closer since he didn’t do any closing for the brewers last season

#occupysesamestreet

by prophetjohn on Feb 20, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Also a loss of leverage.

He could have negotiated his ntc into an extension of some kind perhaps.

Or he could even just have had personal reasons for wanting to stay in NY.

Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub

by Cardinals645 on Feb 20, 2012 1:36 AM EST up reply actions  

so? he didn't think he had an "only trade me to a

Team that will use me as a closer" clause. He thought he had a limited no-trade clause. It’s hardly a foregone conclusion that the 19 teams to which the mets could’ve traded him would’ve used him as a closer.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Feb 20, 2012 5:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Aside from the NTC...

any reason a team would trade for Joe Blanton instead of Jake Westbrook? Identical contracts.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 19, 2012 11:47 PM EST reply actions  

Jocketty up to his old deferral tricks..
More reason Madson a great signing for the Reds: Only $2 million salary during ’12 season. $2m deferred to 11/1/12, another $2m to 11/1/13.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2012 12:53 AM EST reply actions  

Didn't he get like 10m or something?

When does he get the rest?

Thats really crazy he got such a crappy deal. I’ve always thought he was pretty good. I know the market for closers dried up pretty quick and the Papelbon contract was just ridiculous, but I can’t believe thats all he got, especially considering what Heath Bell was able to pull in.

by mick311 on Feb 20, 2012 1:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Quick phone question,

So I just came back overseas from being home, where I picked up a galaxy S2 that I used stateside. I brought it with me to augment my “brick” when I am around wifi. I am working on using it as my international plan to text and call back to the states via the same wifi connections, but I am hitting a little roadblock with the MMS service.

I understand that I could use Skype if I wanted and do for the phone service (open to alternatives), but I wanted to go with something a little more integrated for the text service. I had GO SMS Pro but it is trying to find a network signal and not automatically using the wifi.

When I went into the settings, I found “APN settings”. It has an option to manually set the MMSC, MMS Proxy, and MMS Port. I was initially going to set the MMS Proxy to my rooms wireless router and see how that goes or maybe OpenDNS’s server, but thought I’d call in a lifeline from VEB before I started just guessing.

by RasmustheRipper on Feb 20, 2012 1:36 AM EST reply actions  

I only understood about half the words in this...

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2012 2:03 AM EST up reply actions  

When it comes to MMS always lick it before you stick it.

But you’re overseas Marine, use your god-given discretion.

by openside on Feb 20, 2012 2:26 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

can you even use MMS on non-cellular connections?

I think there are other texting-like services that can be used over wifi, but I think they require accounts/apps/etc. installed on all your potential targets. Which would make it more like inconvenient email more than anything else.

How much does actual international texting cost these days, anyway? Which Galaxy S2 is it? Japan’s cellular network runs on some funky frequencies, but there’s a chance you could ask the stateside carrier to unlock the phone and connect to a local cell network for the time being.

> tebow

by cschepers on Feb 20, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

OT - Absolutely brilliant reflection piece on the 62 Mets on the NYT on-line issue.

Even if you’re too young to recall the times and players, the writing is witty and brilliant.

Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken

by akaitori on Feb 20, 2012 5:40 AM EST reply actions  

link

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 7:06 AM EST up reply actions  

...

this is the real link, that other link up there is not a real link, it’s just a link

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 20, 2012 7:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm kinda in a quandary going into the 2012 season

Whenever anything bad happened with the team there was Tony LaRussa ready, will, and able for me to fix blame upon his head. Theriot made an error at SS. No problem. LaRussa’s fault for playing there. Albert calls his own hit and run then refuses to swing at the pitch (leading to a player with a bad leg—Craig—getting thrown out at 2b). LaRussa’s fault. He gave Albert the authority to call his own hit and run. Anything Ryan Franklin did. LaRussa!!!!

What the hell am I going to do this year? There is no default scapegoat. I’ll work on strategies in spring training and hopeful get into game shape by opening day. It just might be that Tony is still sabotaging this team from afar. Like if Oquendo goes bonkers this season sending someone from 3rd who gets gunned out by a mile, that’s gotta be on Tony, right?

by jjray on Feb 20, 2012 12:33 PM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed

Search

User Tools

The Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.

Related FanPosts on Viva El Birdos

Small
The Cardinals' Most Valuable Player Race

by ChristianFreese23 1 day ago

1 comments

Hahaha_small
These were a few of my favorite things (fink reminisces about the 2011 regular season)

by a fink 4 months ago

30 comments | 13 recs

111747-400-0-2_small
VolsnCards5's Five Storylines to Watch This Minor League Season

by VolsnCards5 4 months ago

15 comments | 4 recs

St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals by Position - Catcher

by stlfan 4 months ago

14 comments | 8 recs

St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Going Jeff Luhnow on Jeff Luhnow

by stlfan 4 months ago

2 comments | 6 recs

Justice-topcrop_small
One Leaping Laird; Millions of Masterpieces

by cschepers 5 months ago

602 comments | 41 recs

Related FanShots on Viva El Birdos

Legopiece Theater: Dugout Abbey Vignette: Bedtime at Busch Stadium

by DanUpBaby 27 days ago 3 comments | 4 recs

Cardinals Caravan - Springfield, MO

by rallybirds 4 months ago 0 comments

"No one ever called La Russa a sissy."

by kindred 7 months ago 2 comments | 12 recs

Tony La Russa Heading Back To His Bay Area Home (Photo)

by joeandjust 7 months ago 0 comments

But in this room, we never lost faith. We never lost hope. Now, saying it...

by Yadi2Second 7 months ago 205 comments

I just saw him hit a walk-off home run that morning on ESPN and here he is...

by Yadi2Second 12 months ago 0 comments

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Delino_small
The Big Puma: A Ballplayer Through and Through

by elidajuiceman 6 days ago

8 comments | 7 recs

Pic_small
Diagosing the Cause of My Albert Pujols Schadenfreude

by cardinalcorsair 9 days ago

15 comments | 6 recs

Recent FanPosts

Small
The Cardinals' Most Valuable Player Race

by ChristianFreese23 1 day ago

1 comments

Small
Poll: Best Age Bracket in Baseball? (Game 4)

by tmcclure 2 days ago

0 comments

Small
Poll: Best Age Bracket in Baseball? (Game 3)

by tmcclure 4 days ago

0 comments

Small
Poll: Best Age Bracket in Baseball? (Game 2)

by tmcclure 6 days ago

2 comments

St-louis-cardinals-script_small
A look back at my predictions for the Cardinals' 2012 season

by stlfan 6 days ago

0 comments

Kyle-lohse-is-hipster-tony-la-russa_small
2012 1/4 Season stat check writeup

by Cards Fan in Chitown 8 days ago

8 comments

Avs2_small
NL teams and their AL counterparts

by avs18fan 8 days ago

3 comments

Small
Poll: Best Age Bracket in Baseball? (Game 1)

by tmcclure 9 days ago

2 comments

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Recent Posts

Yahoo_full_count

In Association With

Baseball Nation Recent Stories

BOSTON, MA: Carlos Pena #23 and Ben Zobrist #18 of the Tampa Bay Rays have words with pitching coach Bob McClure #22 of the Boston Red Sox after teammate Luke Scott was hit by a pitch in the ninth inning at Fenway Park in Boston, Massachusetts. (Photo by Jim Rogash/Getty Images)

Joe Maddon, Bobby Valentine Trade Public Jabs

Baltimore, MD, USA; Baltimore Orioles center fielder Adam Jones doubles against the Boston Red Sox at Oriole Park at Camden Yards. The Red Sox defeated the Orioles 6-5. Credit: Joy R. Absalon-US PRESSWIRE +2 updates

Orioles, Adam Jones Reportedly Agree To Extension

PHILADELPHIA, PA - Cliff Lee of the Philadelphia Phillies throws a pitch against the Boston Red Sox during the first inning of a MLB interleague baseball game. Lee took the loss as the Red Sox defeated the Phillies 5-1. (Photo by Rich Schultz/Getty Images)

The Good And Winless

More from Baseball Nation >

Managers

Jack_benny__1__small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bendermad_small azruavatar

Trigun_001_small the red baron

Images_small tom s.

Authors

1989_bgh_cropped_small bgh

Valverde_medium_small vivaelpujols