pitchers and catchers report; we decide
by tom s. on Feb 18, 2012 8:39 AM EST
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Printit kind of takes away from the drama of "pitchers and catchers report" day when almost everybody has already reported. the full starting staff and most of the bullpen were already present earlier this week. molina, cruz, and anderson were already sighted in camp. but the early appearances suggest that almost everybody is excited to start the season. i don't know if that translates to better in-season performance, but it can't be a bad sign.
kyle lohse was busting out a new curveball, with only some moderate success. apparently, some of them did not make it a full 60' 6". still, a "new pitch from an okay pitcher" puts him at the head of the early running for the joel pineiro award, named for the pitcher who rose suddenly and spectacularly from being a pedestrian 5th starter to being (briefly) the best pitcher on the staff, to being a pedestrian 5th starter again, and to a minor league deal for 2012. a biting curveball is not quite as likely to make lohse a temporary ace as the mystical pineiro one-seamer, but i still like to hear that pitchers are working on something new.
jake "my sinker may be heavy but i ain't" westbrook rises to lohse's challenge by losing 20 pounds.
adam wainwright and his recovering right elbow have attracted a ton of attention. as much as a layperson can assess these things, he sounds like he's meeting all his benchmarks with relative ease. jenifer langosch reports that wainwright will have his spring schedule set today.
from that same link, we learned that tony la russa will hang out with leyland at the tigers' spring training. any coincidence between that story and the story that brandon inge will compete for a second base job, despite not having played there in ever?
two other stories appear through the p-d in which tony's fingerprints are very much present. articles on the new opportunities for bryan anderson and tyler greene are both essentially pointing out that the two could not previously succeed, having run afoul of tony's fairly unforgiving nature and installing themselves (through dicey defense at defense-first positions) in the la russa doghouse (for people). both likely face more promising oipportunities this year, in part because of the retirement of a certain cantankerous senior citizen.
greene has not a mere chance, but a lock on a roster spot. on a team of lefties and switch-hitters, greene joins molina, freese, and holliday as one of a few rh options. the bench - barring the addition of tony cruz - lacks much of any rh option until allen craig returns.
anderson has one of his long-time boosters making roster decisions, although tony cruz remains fairly stiff competition. unlike greene, making the team is not a practical certainty. even if matheny personally likes anderson, will he be able to put anderson on the team if the starting pitchers give him negative reviews?
jose oquendo has been sighted giving instruction at second base to both tyler greene and zack cox, feeding the belief that a position switch is possible for cox. i would assume matt carpenter will take similar drills when he arrives, as he has previously announced that he's trying to be more flexible in his position.
the rangers are rumored to be on the verge of trading uehara, which might be a precursor to signing roy oswalt. we'll have to continue to watch the rumor mill spin, but oswalt has to feel some pressure as he watches his colleagues report. he may have overplayed his hand.
in the meantime, the last stragglers should make it to camp today. so far almost every pitcher we will rely on has thrown a pitch without collapsing in agony. i call that success.
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Did anyone pick Kyle Lohse as a ST surprise?
I doubt it.
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
Mostly because I figured nobody else would
Slight chance to make me look like a genius later! But that train has sailed.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I don't think most people would have considered him eligible since
He’s an established veteran pitcher locked into the rotation. Hard for him to make an impression, other than to get an injured.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 18, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Honestly...
don’t know why Lohse gets some much shit…
I like the guy. When he is healthy I think he is a solid 2/3 guy. He just had some awful luck. Where would we have been without him last year?
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Lohse gets a ton of shit because the first 2 years of his huge contract were shit.
if he had 4 years in a row of what he did in 2008 and 2011, he’d get more respect.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
the shit was due to getting beaned in the forearm...
not really much he can do about that…
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
It's not so much Lohse as Lohse's shitty contract.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
does seem that the market for pitchers is a bit soft...
if healthy maybe he would have earned his contract…who could say?
I remember the year he got hit in the forearm.
he was rolling and then he gets beaned… :(
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
The problem is that the Cards paid him to be a 3.0-WAR pitcher when he's a 2.0-WAR pitcher
and they gave him 4 years when he isn’t good enough at his best to merit the risk of a 4-year contract to a pitcher. These are things that were pointed out on this board when the contract was met with nearly unanimous condemnation when it was announced. Unfortunately, those condemning the contract have been proven correct by the course of events that have followed its signing.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
true...
but hindsight is 20/20…
When he is healthy I feel good about our chances of winning a game.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
You missed my point.
Every concern expressed about giving Lohse a 4-year, $44MM contract was done so the day the contract was announced. VEB’s foresight was 20/20. The contract was roundly condemned at its inception, before Lohse threw a single pitch during its term. Giving 4-year contracts to pitchers is generally not the best idea. Giving 4-year, $44MM to mediocre pitchers is usually a bad idea. The Cardinals signing the mediocre Lohse to a 4-year, $44MM contract was a bad idea from the start that has been proven a bad idea.
Thank goodness the Cardinals seem to have learned their lesson from the mistake that is the Lohse contract. With the arms moving up in the farm system, the organization ought to be able to go a long while before overpaying in years and dollars for another mediocre starting pitcher.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
4/41, but still...all of this
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
no...I got your point...
I just am not to upset with @10 mi a year for a middle of the rotation starter.
they prolly over paid but by how much ?
if you could sign lohse to a figure (has to be a 4 years) what would you pay him…
- I think the biggest mistake was the NTC
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
I think the point is that we wouldn't sign Lohse to a 3 or 4 year deal.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
well...
at the time he seemed to have a track record of durability…
maybe you shouldn’t give 3 to 4 years to any pitcher. Could have been anyone that got beaned on the forearm.
it is risky when you sign any pitcher long term.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
It's certainly reasonable to give long term deals
to elite pitchers to secure their services. It’s not reasonable to give a long term deal the Kyle Lohse’s of the world. Even 2 years deals can be a bummer (Westbrook). I don’t think the Cardinals paid over market value for Lohse as he likely would’ve got a similar deal in free agency. I’d just rather see other teams make these deals.
Teams are getting smart now, though. Notice how Edwin Jackson doesn’t have a 4 year $48 million contract like many had predicted. Jackson was easily a better investment for 4 years this offseason than Lohse was when he signed.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
it does seem like teams are wising up...
in years past Oswalt prolly would have had a deal by now.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Oswalt is not relevant to this conversation
as he is in no way comparable to the situation Kyle Lohse was in
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
I disagree on your assessment of what Lohse would have received via free agency.
The Cardinals struck early, before Lohse even hit free agency. During that Hot Stove, there weren’t that many overpays for mediocre pitchers. The Cardinals made two miscalculations. The first was paying Lohse like a 3.0-WAR pitcher. The second was their assessment of what the free agent market would be for starters during that Hot Stove. Because of these miscalculations, they grossly overpaid—a fact that was evident from Day One.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
you are right...
the 2 or 3 years before hand were pretty crazy with mediocre pitchers getting big deals though. Mozeliak must have assumed that was going to continue.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Remember this was during a time where
Gil Meche landed a 5 year $55 million deal
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Remember that the financial crisis hit between the Meche and Lohse signings.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah i know, but at the time it hadn't affected baseball yet.
Mozeliak jumped way out in front of everyone and made a poor decision. Like many GM’s before him…he got Boras’d
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
It hadn't affected baseball yet because no one had become a free agent yet.
There was absolutely no need to be so far out in front of the free agent market with Lohse because of the economic backdrop.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yep, and that's why we all bashed the move at the time
and are still bashing it.
But its not like the money dried up completely or anything.
A.J. Burnett, Derek Lowe, Ryan Dempster, and Oliver Perez all got monster contracts as well. In fact…each one those guys is probably more overpaid than Lohse
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
ok, maybe not dempster
I thought his was for $16 million annually…it was actually an avg. of 13
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I thought all of those signings were terrible.
I didn’t think Dempster’s would be the best of the lot.
My whole point is that signing pitchers like Lohse to four-year, $44MM deals when Randy Johnson signs for one year at $8MM, Penny signs for one year at $5MM, etc. is a bad use of money. Thankfully, it looks like the era of signing back-end starters to multi-year deals is coming to an end in St. Louis.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Not disagreeing.
Just think that Mozeliak got Boras’d into thinking the deal was slightly below MV.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Surprisingly, Ryan Dempster may have been
the best signing of that offseason out of the players that got multi-year deals that exceeded $10 million in total value.
Obviously Teixiera and Sabathia are better players, but I think they were obviously going to the Yankees at several million more than any other team could afford no matter what.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
how much has the economic downturn really affected baseball?
usually in economic hard times entertainment is a priority
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
i think "grossly overpaid" is grossly overstating the matter
but the again i feel like i’ve had this conversation before
which means feel free to ignore me
because i don’t think i’m interesting in a debate over subjective definitions of superlatives
you are always interesting pj ... especially in debates
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
It was 5/46
I know everyone thinks these are independent decisions but they aren’t. We never would have signed lohse if he hadn’t have had a season with Duncan. And we really don;t know what the verbal agreements were with Boras at the time.
You can argue about the NTC and I agree a four year NTC is a bit much but overall, if Lohse has a good year, it will have been an OK contract marred by a freak injury.
Just win
Several of my non-Cardinals-fans friends contacted me after the contract to make fun of it.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 18, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Whether it was his fault or not,
he still pitched like shit and that’s what people remember.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
well you are probably smarter than the casual fan.
As a member of VEB, that’s almost a given. People on VEB dislike Lohse’s contract. People outside of VEB dislike Lohse’s 2 shitty years.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
well people inside of VEB dislike his 2 shitty years, also.
but you know what i mean.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'm annoyed as well
by the constant bitching about Lohse, but not much you can do about it on a forum with so many commenters. All it takes is a few people who bring it up over and over again and it seems like a major topic of conversation when it really isn’t.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 18, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think anyone is bitching about Lohse.
Just re-hashing a conversation about his contract that’s been had many times and obviously still strikes a nerve with VEB. If you read through the comments you’ll notice that no one actually says “Kyle Lohse sucks” or “Kyle Lohse is a bad pitcher” or “I don’t like Kyle Lohse”
The closest you’ll find is “Kyle Lohse had 2 shitty years” which he did and everyone agrees it’s because he was hurt.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
i disagree .... last post season up through the early season there were plenty of
lohse sucks, lohse is a bad pitcher, etc type of comments
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Lohse sucked pretty bad in the postseason, didn't he?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by "last post season up through the early season" i'm referring to last post season not this post
season and my comment is in reference to todd’s statement.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
and my comment was in reference to todays post
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
i misread your comment ... thought it was retroactive when i read it the first time
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Whether it's in this thread or not, the "Lohse sucks"
Comments have been very common on VEB. And he did suck for two years, but again, IMO, that was due to injury.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 18, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Then give Mo shit for signing him to that contract.
Lohse’s performance in 2009-2010 was clearly a result of being injured, IMO. Whether he should have been pitching given that injury may be another question (it was an obscure injury), but again I don’t blame Lohse for going out there under the circumstances.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 18, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Mo has taken plenty of shit around here for that deal.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
He has. And Lohse took a lot of shit for his performance
With little allowance for being injured (with quite a few positing that he just sucked, and wasn’t injured anyway).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 18, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think a lot of that came from Lohse himself saying how good he felt.
He was very Garrett Stephenson-like with his post game explanations.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
He clearly couldn't throw his changeup for shit during that time, which is his best pitch by far, IMO.
And last year, after he recovered from surgery, he had his changeup again. I expect a 2008/2011 year from him this year, probably a little worse given aging regression.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 18, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I do to...
I think the ERA will be closer to 4 and the innings will fall just shy of 200. Nothing to sneeze at for a 4th/5th starter…just not what you want to pay $12 million bucks for.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
and he immediately started getting trashed again
late last season when he started tiring out. there was little appeal to the fact that he just threw almost 200 innings in one season after averaging half that over the last 2 seasons. him tiring out later in the season wasn’t proof that he sucks. it was kind of to be expected
Lohse had a large ERA-FIP gap and it evened out a bit.
Perhaps he tired out some, too, but there was no reason to expect him to continue to pitch over his head for the entire season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Agreed. His August was bad (5.92 ERA)
But he was really excellent in Sept/Oct with a 1.37 ERA/2.04 FIP.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 18, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
concur, bad luck. hope he stays healthy and does well this year
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
I've always quite liked Lohse
not sure he’s a #2 starter though, except maybe for the Pirates. He’s a good #5 or a so-so #4 on a contending team, and about a league average pitcher. I guess his best tool is the ability to consistently throw 200-odd innings when he’s healthy.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 18, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
outside of the previous two years, before last year, he was always healthy
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
oh, you mean so outside of 2 past of the 3 seasons his health has been fine?
that’s good to know.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 18, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
yes, outside outside of the 2 years when he was injured and the drs didn't figure out what was wrong
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
Lohse is a good pitcher (#4 imo)
who could be a great pitcher with another pitch
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 18, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
that said pitchers with new pitches can be dangerous if they keep throwing it and it is not working
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 18, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think his stuff is good enough to dominate, even with another pitch
HIs fastball, curve and change are all probably below-average, stuff-wise, I’d say. He’s just got above-average command when he’s pitching well, and seemingly pretty good stamina.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 19, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Lohse's change up is definitely not below average stuff wise.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
yeah his changeup is pretty wicked and his stats in non-injured years are actually pretty good
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
J.C. Romero will be wearing #16.
What a disgrace.
Also, Eugenio Velez is sporting the #8 and Alex Cora #13
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 9:13 AM EST reply actions
Lance Lynn got a fancy new number...
31! Miss you, Donovan…
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
The late Jack Webb - Dragnet - had his fictional badge "714" retired upon his transition . . .
Wonder if somehow Albert, Dunc, TLR, Ernie Hays, Ballpark Village figures could add up to that number? It should be posted on foul territory along the right-field line in keeping with Tony’s political bent. . .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
Half his old number
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 18, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
to be honest
i don’t get the numbers obsession in MLB, especially the whole ‘retired numbers’ thing. I like how it goes in Football, where you can get a series of brilliant players all wearing the same number e.g. At Manchester United you’ve got George Best, David Beckham, Cristiano Ronaldo etc. all wearing the #7.
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
wait a minute..
Those aren’t football players. Those are soccer players! Silly Aranathor.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You know what? You're right.
It doesn’t make much sense. It would be kind of cool the keep the number around for the best players to hand down.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 18, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
It's all J.C. Romero's fault that RayRay will never ever make it into the Hall of Fame or have his number retired.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I just think its kind of funny that
- is basically untouchable, but the 2 CF’s that came after McGee get no such consideration. Lankford and Edmonds were both WAAAY better than McGee.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
what the hell....
I* not “1.”
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
jeez that still aint right.
number 51*
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
That is true
Love for Willie McGee is mostly emotional. He was a good player, but people love him for reasons beyond that.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I think it's mainly his handsome visage.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 18, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
And the 1982 World Series
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
And getting traded mid-season,
winning the NL batting title in absentia, but not giving Cards fans the chance to properly say goodbye.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
i think we should all be able to agree that the 2nd batting title was BS
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
OK, if we're gonna
slag on Willie this year, I’m outta here.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 18, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Let me be clear...
I FUCKING LOVE WILLIE MCGEE. Suggesting the batting title being BS isn’t bashing him, its bashing the system that was in place. Suggesting that Lankford and Edmonds were better isn’t bashing Willie either, its pointing out fact.
I understand why people love Willie…I grew up watching him, FFS.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
YOU'RE WORSE THAN IDI AMIN
Leave favorite memories of Jim Edmonds here
by a fink on Feb 18, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It was worth
the price of admission just to see willie Mc Gee walk from the
on deck circle to the batter’s box and step in to hit. He always
looked so humble and with his head down walking so slow like the
25th man on a little league team that had no confidence at all but
played only because his father made him and he knew his mother was
watching him from the stands and was filled with fear that he was
going to embarrass her.
He always carried the bat like he didn’t know what in the hell to
do with it and then he would take an awkward swing with it and
often contact the ball solidly and lash a liner out to the wall
and run like hell to 3rd base instead of crusing into second..
and some times when the team really needed it in a crucial spot, he
would take bunglesome swing and knock it completely out of the park.
Willie always looked like he too embarrased to show any joy in what
heroic feats he accomplished, just the hint of a smile was all
you would ever see. That, my friends is why people liked Willie
Mc Gee.
by ridgesee on Feb 18, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Amen, sir,
you have restored my faith in VEB.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 18, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
The love for Willie McGee is not wrong. But it does exceed his quality as a baseball player. Which is not even to say that he wasn’t a good or very good player. People love what he did, but they love how he did it even more. There’s nothing wrong with that. I’d be a hypocrite if I said there was anything wrong with that, as I am the proud owner of a So Taguchi jersey.
Here is a great video clip from 1989 that hits on the same the phenomenon you’re talking about, ridgesee.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Yeah, Whitey Herzog
summed it up perfectly when he remarked once that Willie McGee played the game well, but played it like, “a little boy lost.”
Nice. I was teaching in Germany when Wille and the Cards beat the Brew Crew.
School had a Willie McGee look-alike contest for the kids. Competition was spirited and fun.. . . . In the end their was a tie for first place. A kid and another teacher’s pooch. . . . There was a parade of all the contestants, and the winners were on a float made from skids mounted on wagons. . . .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
Yes, I agree completely
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 18, 2012 10:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
No kidding.
He hasn’t earned the privilege of wearing Brett Hull’s number.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He better not get that captain's "c" too
Fuck that guy
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 18, 2012 10:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
koyie hill is 44.
8, 16 & 44 have all seemed to be players that are ‘doomed’. 31 also (franklin, now lynn)
by zoomzoomj88 on Feb 18, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
did he want #8?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
if i were him i would prefer a single digit number, but who knows
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
He probably didn't want it.
He won the world series wearing 21!
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 18, 2012 2:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
and had a hell of a world series
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
i'm assuming y'all saw the SBNation "worst pitches of the year"
if not, it’s right here, but i’m still just going to leave this here.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
It was an eventually breaking ball
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 18, 2012 10:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ball 8!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
by ClemsonGirl on Feb 18, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Vaughan has walked the bases loaded on 12 straight pitches!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
by ClemsonGirl on Feb 18, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
WILD THING
you make my heart sing!
You walk everything!
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
They’re shitty.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I remember that as well ... scary moment
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
It would've been priceless if the ump had called that a strike.
Who’s the pitcher. Cubs? Is it Dempster?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 18, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
It's somebody from Texas.
Colby Lewis, perhaps?
Sign Bubbie Buzachero!
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 18, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Miguel Cabrera for second base!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 18, 2012 10:04 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I've got a lot of respect for Anderson
That said, this kinda sorta has to be his year. If he can’t get the backup gig with Tony gone and a booster as manager, then I think he might want to reconsider his career options (certainly his options with this organizations). Here’s hoping he gels well with the staff.
Vone Vlast Vround
I’m still dreaming of having Omar Vizquel and Jason Varitek on this year’s team.
Both would help Matheny immensely. The offense can stand it.
I’m cool with a MIF of Furc and Greene, with V and Danny as back-ups (V and D also backing up Freese).
This does not eliminate Tony Cruz, who would be catcher 2 or 3 and also serve some corner OF, 1B and PH. (In this scenario, Skippy-Doodle is, dare I say it, gone)
Longer term, beginning in 2013, Varitek begins a pitching coach stint with Matheny that will, by 2020, be talked about in the same vein as La-Dunc has been.
i think have a MIF with a nickname 'VD'
is a bad idea
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
This might be my most hated suggestion of the offseason.
No offense.
These guys are dinosaurs. If you want to bring them in as coaches that’s fine, but I don’t see a need to bring in any 40+ players to sit on the bench when guys like Matt Carpenter, Tony Cruz, and Bryan Anderson have earned their shot.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
If it's veteran leadership you are looking for...
I think Carpenter, Wainwright, Berkman, and Molina have that covered.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
And Holliday, Furcal, Lohse, & Westbrook...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
When you say "Westbrook"
what your really mean is “Oswalt”, right?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
You don't have to be above average to be a veteran and a leader.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I suppose 'dream' was not strong enough of a disclaimer
I apologize for upsetting your sensibilities
I just don't get the "dream".
I have no problem with the part about them joining the coaching staff and Matheny and ‘Tek becoming the new “La-Dunc”. That’s dreamworthy, I guess. There is nothing to gain from having these guys taking roster spots though.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
No former Bosox
“captains” with the pretentious freakin’ “C” on the jersey to sully the Cardinal tradition, thank you very much.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 18, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
I understand, Tewk
I have baseball roster dreams sometimes. For instance, I often wish the Cardinals would sign certain players that everyone hates just to have the opportunity to remake him into a beloved Cardinal, a la Gary Gaetti, Will Clark, etc. Berkman and Beltran possibly fall into this category, depending on how much people disliked them as rivals.
I eventually started thinking it would be awesome if we somehow acquired Brandon Phillips for this reason (and the fact that he’s a really good baseball at a position that has mostly been forgettable for us in recent years).
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I've said for a while that BP would be a fan favorite as a Cardinal.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Yup
I think that would be likely as well. The more I paid attention to him the more he seemed like kind of a goofy jester type who occasionally lapsed into poor rhetorical choices, rather than a guy who is an annoying loud mouth by default. Contrast with Nyjer Morgan. I genuinely dislike him, and on the surface they appear very similar (cue racial scouting comp joke) but Morgan seems to really think he is “the shit” and also seems to have a real problem with his temper on top of that. I don’t think he would become a favorite.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Yeah, Morgan wouldn't last a day in STL.
Especially while Carp is still playing.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
I kinda like Phillips
Hard to say why, given recent history, but there ya go. I kinda like him.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 18, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
it might be my most hated suggestion of the offseason
except for it including Skip being gone
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
Why isn't there live 24 / 7 webcam coverage of Spring Training?
I feel like I’m living in 1974! Give me live, streaming video!
D Goold, I’m looking at you.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 10:36 AM EST reply actions
We passed on the reality show
Go be a Marlins fan
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 18, 2012 10:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't need a reality show.
I just need some schlub wandering around with a camera.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
For your Mardi Gras needs:
Schnucks still has Schlafly 12-packs for $11.99.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 11:04 AM EST reply actions
Lboros, was that you?
Did anybody else see the lowercase text and think lboros came back for old times sake?
jp
by jpmorgan5150 on Feb 18, 2012 11:29 AM EST via mobile reply actions
tom. s always writes in lower case
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
Except when he writes it on his phone and it autocorrects his lower case text to upper case after punctuation.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I miss baseball
But nothing can ever top last year.
I kinda don’t want new memories yet. As my wife said when I told her we could start going to games again soon, “yeah, but it won’t be close to the last one we went to (game 6)”.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 18, 2012 11:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Did we hear anything from the Unicorn
About his “interesting pitching situation developing”?
by mick311 on Feb 18, 2012 11:51 AM EST via mobile reply actions
There's scuttlebutt about Uehara going to the A's.
I think pj had it right last night. The Rangers are stepping up their efforts to land Oswalt and this is the Cards’ last chance to make a play for him or walk away.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
It's probably this:
Cardinals to amend Carpenter’s pitching program
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Must've just got posted...
but yeah, that’s it. I’m on board with this. Carpenter workload last year was astronomical. Almost 300 innings if you add ST and postseason. He’s had too many issues to not be cautious. I’d also be on board with him skipping a start here and there if the club has a comfortable lead. Way more concerned about Carp than Waino.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Plus he has a 2 year contract now. Could have just declined his option last year if he got hurt.
Now we need him to be healthy in 2013.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 18, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Now they want Carpenter to pitch too???
What’s the guy gotta do to earn a roster spot, geez.
Oh, never mind.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 18, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
hahaha
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
anyone see Goolds "Twas the night before Spring Training" ?
Absolutely Awesome!
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
by Red Blazer on Feb 18, 2012 12:12 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Awesome
VEB fanpost worthy! Front page even.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I think this Goold kid could write for a living.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
After reading this
I can’t stop reading all the comments with that same rhythm. Actually kinda works, sometimes.
Sign Bubbie Buzachero!
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 18, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
No longer #developing
Cardinals to reduce Carpenter’s Spring Training workload:
Leery of the toll exacted by last season’s uncompromising workload, the Cardinals will likely schedule projected Opening Day starter Chris Carpenter for one or even two fewer Grapefruit League appearances than is typical.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah, no reason to throw him in st too much
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 18, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Burnett to the Pirates ?
As Tim Dierkes noted last week, the Pirates were a solid fit for the 35-year-old as the club has struggled to find a frontline starter on the open market. Burnett held a limited no-trade clause which allowed him to block trades to ten clubs, but it appears that the Bucs were not on that list.
Guess he didn’t see that one com’in.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
The teams on his list were west coast teams. He wants to live near the east coast.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 18, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I understand not wanting to live on the west coast...
but damn…seems like he should’ve saved a spot in that NTC for Pittsburgh.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Probably seemed like a reasonable gamble at the time.
Who would have thought Pittsburgh would be in on Burnett? Hasn’t really been their kind of move.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
probably forgot they were a MLB franchise when making his list out
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Pittsburgh's an okay town.
That park’s really pretty. And the club is sorta-probably on its way out of the basement, anyway. I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to playing there.
I would be very opposed to playing there if I was interested in winning
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
But if I wanted to resurrect
my career and then be traded midseason to a contender, Pitt’s one of the best choices.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 18, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
at the time he decided on the teams to be included in his NTC,
his career didn’t need resurrecting. He had every reason to believe he would be an elite pitcher for years to come.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
well not "elite"
but really good
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
I seem to recall a couple
of prominent VEB commenters who were very hot to sign Burnett back in the day. What a long time ago that was.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 18, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
yep...thank GOB's that didn't happen.
Just look at the above Lohse conversation that happened in the same offseason
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Probably didn't expect Pitt to be in the market for a high-priced SP.
Probably put more competitive clubs on the list to better control where he would wind up. Why would he bother putting a perennial basement dweller on the no-trade list?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 18, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
uh..to not wind up on a perennial basement dweller
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
actually pittsburg and nationals are making some inroads to being competitive teams which will make
baseball all the more interesting
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Nationals - yes.
The Pirates will not be competive while AJ Burnett is on the team.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
well it appears both teams are spending money and retaining talent in an effort to be more
competitive, that being the apparent goal, whether or not they have been or will be successful can be another matter. Especially for the pirates it definitely appears they are trying to become more competitive versus churning the farm club to make cash for the owners.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
At one time, Burnett and Bedard would've been a scary 1-2 punch
The rest of the rotation however….Karstens, Correia, Morton, and possibly James McDonald. Yikes. Taillon and Cole have an ETA of 2013, but they need some big years from Alvarez and Tabata before I’ll be truly worried about them.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
i just saying that they at least seem to be trying to do something vs not trying at all
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
agreed...but I still think they have a couple sub-.500
years left in the tank. Once they can turn the corner players will be much more willing to sign with them and they can take the next step. Kinda like where the Nationals are at now, but without as many pieces yet.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
don't doubt it, i do feel it makes the NL Central and the NL overall more interesting by having
these two teams trying to get better
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Especially with it cutting down to just 5 teams
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
definitely, and I wish the astro's well in their rebuilding efforts
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
They better not change the team name
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
that would suck, although while i don't follow hand egg it seems a little sad
to me for whatever reason arizona has a team called the cardinals of hand egg
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
The new owner did come out and say that was off the table now.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Negative fan reaction?
Take notes Loria
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, but I don't think it was expected, especially at the time he set the NT list that the Pirate would be in the market for a high-priced pitcher.
Even with the Yankees eating so much of his salary.
Obviously, it’s mentioned below his list is more about geography, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some guys with partial NTCs didn’t bother putting teams that never compete on their lists.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 18, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
the list, from what i understand, is composed entirely of west coast teams
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I heard his wife doesn't like flying.
Or something like that.
Sign Bubbie Buzachero!
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 18, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I believe that's right....
this is a perk from his Toronto contract:
deal includes 8 round-trip limousine trips per season between Toronto & Burnett’s Maryland home for his wife
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
confirmed...google finds strange things sometimes.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Dang...
A.J. Burnett landed her? Stupid MLB players…
Sign Bubbie Buzachero!
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 18, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, what's to like about AJ Burnett
Other than his millions of dollars and incredible pro athlete physique?
And that’s before we even account for the possibility that (gasp) he’s a decent person.
Seems a good fit for Burnett
Low-pressure environment. Seems like he needs that, perhaps.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 18, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Sandy Alderson has been a riot lately:
When asked if the club could increase payroll if they’re in contention, Alderson replied: “Yes, uh huh.” When asked if he knew by how much, he said: “No, uh, uh.”
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 12:44 PM EST reply actions
Wow, I thought @MetsGM was a fake account.
Now it shows as verified. Mind: blown.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
approved
Much better than the neck tats he showed up with last season
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Is it a tattoo tear with a watery 5 inside?
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yadi KILLED Albert?
I don’t think Yadi is following him in FA then…
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 18, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, it's the WS trophy.
I guess he’s planning on just winning the two, then.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
there is room for a second base below the existing one for the next 5 or 6 wins to be added on (flag will waiver over partially)
that’s PR flag right?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yup, that's the PR flag.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 18, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
He's not really leaving any room on the trophy for more years
Not a good sign
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 18, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
If he needs more years, he has another arm.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 18, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yadis new tattoo
Via Chris Lee
http://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/cardinals-spring-training/image_835a2a16-6076-5279-b70a-09ddd92ff66f.html
by Cheeseballs on Feb 18, 2012 2:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Oh, hey. Afternoon sticky-puck.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 2:18 PM EST reply actions
fuck i forgot!
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
thanks for the reminder...doesn't look like i missed anything
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
One minor scrum by the Wild net so far,
otherwise they’re just getting rolling.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
That net is kind of a bastard.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Leghorn!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 18, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Woooooooooooo!
just in time!
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:25 PM EST reply actions
Things I'd like to see #132
The look on Justin Verlander’s face when he realises his infield defense next year will involve Prince Fielder playing first, Miguel Cabrera playing third, and Brandon Inge playing second.
Still bitching to contact.
any chance they get this hockey day in america title from baseball night in america article from posnaski?
or is this an annual deal?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
IIRC one of the networks used to do National Hockey Night or something like that.
And I know NBC calls their Sunday night broadcast “Football Night in America.”
I think it comes from "Hockey Night in Canada"
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
is that for real?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
I have no idea how they decided on the name,
but “hockey night in canada” definitely exists….I believe its a weekly thing
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
okay i guess that makes sense, hockey is the thing in canada right?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it's a big deal
The theme song for Hockey Night in Canada is apparently the second national anthem of Canada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_Night_in_Canada
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Not a hockey fan I guess? Ever heard of Don Cherry?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 18, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
If you have NHL Network
They broadcast the CBC Hockey Night in Canada programming live Saturday nights, I believe. Silly U-verse dropped NHL Network before this hockey season, so I’m no longer sure.
Love this hockey team
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 3:07 PM EST reply actions
man that's huge
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Using a completely different set of evaluation metrics,
yes.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Jackman finally tied Plager!
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 3:08 PM EST reply actions
Blues' record about to improve to 30-8-6 under Hitchcock.
Wow.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 4:04 PM EST reply actions
Mardi Gras! Blues up 3-0! Getting of work early in an hour an a half!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Also I was left hanging on STLGT but I love having Andy McDonald back. It’s like trading for a guy
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 18, 2012 4:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions
you know Dan, it really is.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Are we covering the game better than GameTime?
That would be really sad.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
umm...
If only Stewart
had Sobe’s heart and grit.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Sobotka!
All heart & grit!
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 4:14 PM EST reply actions
Mizzou wins!
25-2, baby!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 18, 2012 4:16 PM EST reply actions
over under 1.5 Norris Trophies for Pietrangelo during his career?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 4:23 PM EST reply actions
amongst defenseman he's 4th in goals, 6th in points, 8th in +/-
and he just turn 22 years old. Can we just sign him to one of those silly ass 18 year hockey contracts now?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
this is awesome
this entire series is great
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
No idea what this is but it doesn't matter
That is fantastic.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
cross check to the jaw. . .
not good
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
isn't that what air stewardesses do on aeroplanes?
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
That replay looked ugly.
“Cross checking” that was basically just clubbing him with his stick.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
yeah hopefully there will be a suspension from that
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
3 minute PP?
wtf?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 4:33 PM EST reply actions
Ah, they just explained it.
I didn’t know that’s how they did that.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
So, my wife and I have been watching a lot more hockey lately but we're not really knowledgeable fans yet
Are the Blues considered to be a rough team or something? I just saw that clip of the cross check to the jaw. She has been following the game more closely than I have and said it has been a bit rough and tumble so far. But we have both been wondering lately if their games have been more physical than is typical in hockey or if it’s just our own perception having not grown up watching a lot of hockey.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
This is one of my more poorly written comments in a while, apologies.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
There's some bad blood with the Wild, isn't there?
I seem to recall previous games being pretty physical too.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
The Blues are chippy
and dress an enforcer, but they don’t actively try to intimidate. Still, all the forechecking and physical play is bound to piss someone off.
by openside on Feb 18, 2012 7:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Should Clutterbuck be expecting the Shana-ban?
I mean, he appeared to target Petrangelo’s head on the boarding/charging penalty. . . plus I see a tweet where he yelled “I hope you get another concussion” at McDonald. In a league that is trying to change its image regarding head injuries, that type of thing is unacceptable. Plus blatantly running over Elliot.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Fuck that clown. See you next year
by openside on Feb 19, 2012 2:13 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Heh. TV clock is waaaaay off.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 4:38 PM EST reply actions
Goaltending has been huge.
Beyond that, I couldn’t say. I’m roughly a P-D boards level hockey fan.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
good goaltending
strong D and decent O.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
and no I can't elaborate much
We do a good job on D of getting in lanes and blocking shots. D guys are very talented. Guys stay to their assignments and are sold on the system that Hitchcock has them running. Perhaps the robot can elaborate more, when he gets done partying.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
The Blues try to block and at least get a stick on every pass and shot.
Great defensive presence in shooting and passing lanes, tough in the slot. The backcheck well too. Backchecking is the hallmark of a well coached, disciplined team.
by openside on Feb 18, 2012 7:21 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
thanks
this is basically what I was trying to say, but I’ve just been getting into hockey the last couple of years. Most of what I pick up is off of the broadcasts. . . imagine if your only source of knowledge on the Cardinals was Dan, Al, and Ricky. . .
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Panger isn't that bad.
And I basically rehashed what you said. I had a point but Jack Daniels .
by openside on Feb 19, 2012 2:14 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Good coaching
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Both for sure
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Elliott is on pace to have the lowest Goals Against Average in over 70 years
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Cam Newton #18 on the WHA list.
what an amazing athlete
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
definitely both
(they call the other guy Elliot)
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
And how does he feel about that?
Kind of a wussy name, don’t you think?
I’ll start watching when the playoffs begin.
Leave favorite memories of Jim Edmonds here
his goalie mask has a zombie on it
probably compensating for the wussy name
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
his mask has
Casey Jones from Teenage Mutant Ninja Trutles on it.
It’s pretty awesome. Made by these guys
http://headstronggrafx.com/
from Belleville.
Straight from the crazy unfiltered mind of a seventeen year-old Blues fan.
Goalie for life.
Reppin Southern Illinois.
by BulldogOshie on Feb 19, 2012 3:35 AM EST up reply actions
My awesome alarm just went off
Because that is awesome.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Yes, quite.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 19, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
BASEBALL
UC Irvine vs Southern on MLB Network.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Finally!
Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Béisbol Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Béisbol Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Béisbol Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Béisbol Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Béisbol Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Béisbol Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Baseball Béisbol Baseball
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
by Oedipa Maas on Feb 18, 2012 5:19 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
TC
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
BAAAAASSSSEEEEEEEBBBAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
It's pretty amazing
Looks photoshopped or something.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Mine too.
Mota hates the Sports Authority.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Mota was trying to quick pitch
Check out the catcher, he’s not looking — Mota is throwing it away to avoid killing Whiteside or whoever the hell that is behind the plate.
Anyone else see that ST pic of Wb? It was on fb.
Dude really does look like he lost a ton of weight.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
because that doesn't look hugely different from his appearance last spring.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
and he still looks skinny here, in april 2011.
but he gains a ton of weight by the WS.
it looks like he gained a lot of weight over the season, but is able to lose it in the offseason. i think he just needs a nutritionist to work with him with how he eats on the road and during the season. maybe improve his workouts on off-days.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
There's the one where he is standing against a fence.
He looks suler skinny. It’s on his official facebook page
by Cheeseballs on Feb 18, 2012 9:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yea that's the one. I'll see if I can post it.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 18, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 18, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But yea, from what Tom posted, it does look like he gained a lot of weight during the season last year.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 18, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
derrick goold subtly puts a hex on the reds:
Entering this season, Jocketty has made deals with urgency — swapping, for example, a top prospect and a starting pitcher in a package for former San Diego righty Mat Latos, a deal that was eerily like the one Jocketty pulled for Mark Mulder after the 2004 season with the Cardinals.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
ooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo
(wiggles fingers)
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 18, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
also, this almost makes the skip schumaker deal look good. almost.
DeWitt has apparently cleared waivers and has until Wednesday to decide whether to sign with the Cubs as a non-roster invitee, tweets Carrie Muskat of MLB.com. . . . DeWitt and the Cubs had agreed to a $1.1MM salary for 2012 earlier in the offseason, avoiding arbitration. The Cubs could attempt to deal DeWitt, but if they release him, I expect they’ll be responsible for one sixth of his salary (approximately $183K). He was arbitration eligible for the first time this offseason.
arguably, dewitt is no more hapless than schumaker. and, arguably, DFAing schumaker might be the most sensible thing. but anytime you agree to $1.1m (even if you can get out of it, mostly) and end up releasing the guy, it looks bad.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
I got a present today ... for my VEB anniversary which is tomorrow!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 9:58 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
sorry for the size!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Nice.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
thanks bender! they didn't even know it was tomorrow or that the button was related to the VEB moniker directly! But very much appreciated all the same
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 18, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
I still can't believe the Yankees are set on.signing Raul Ibanex
by mick311 on Feb 18, 2012 10:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Wow, dont know how my phone posted that,
He was worth -0.4 bWAR last year and will turn 40 this year. MLBTR has a post up about Damon contacting the Yankees to gauge their interest in signing him and Cashman told him he isn’t his ‘top choice’….not saying Damon is much better but why in the hell are they so high on Ibanez
by mick311 on Feb 18, 2012 10:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
.289obp, -1.4fWAR
Pretty awful to be anyones ‘top choice’.
by mick311 on Feb 18, 2012 10:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Who cares what his fWAR is. Only thing that matters is expected splits against RHP.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
I know, I understand thats their reason for wanting him,
but his splits weren’t even very good v RHP last season and he’s absolutely horrible in the OF. I know the bench probably isn’t as important in the AL, but he would limited to DH duties v. RHP only, and they already have A. Jones who is limited to the same role vs. LHP.
Damon had similar splits last year v. RHP and he can actually hit LHP. Not to mention, he is a much better bet if they needed someone to fill in a corner OF spot in the event of an injury.
I only pointed out his fWAR because I didn’t realize it was actually THAT horrible and it seems crazy a team would be so interested in a player that was that far below replacement level. I get what they are trying to do….but expecting him to have a bounce-back year at the plate at age 40 seems like a shitty move to me.
Here was an an article along those lines favoring Ibanez over Damon
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/yankees-pursue-ibanez-but-what-about-damon/
Ibanez could be cheaper as well, so that might be another point in his favor.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 19, 2012 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
VEB is tired
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
alas you are too late
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
Bravo, Bravo, El Birdo!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks, i'm celebrating!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
well, its only 3pm here in japan
but I’ll drink a beer with you.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
thanks ... are you from japan or are you a gi?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
Marine Corps
just got back from being in the states for a while actually
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
it's always good to go back home and visit but it's always comforting to get back to where you are
living
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!" ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
agreed
Japan’s a cool place. I got about 8 months left and then I should be back for good…. can’t wait.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
back for good does that mean you are near retirement or separating after your enlistment?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!" ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
finishing up my enlistment
4 years, I’ll have been in Japan for about 2.5.
by RasmustheRipper on Feb 19, 2012 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
thanks for your service marine, enjoy your time while you are there
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!" ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 19, 2012 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
Anyone see the Bleacher Report on 50 fastest pitchers? Cleto at number 1.
Interesting that most of the ones listed have very mediocre records to date. .. If Cleto had a bit of control, the Boog give-away becomes less painful. . .. .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
literally citing bleacher report
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 19, 2012 4:48 AM EST up reply actions
Cleto didn't walk many people in the minors
I suspect that his problem is more command than control.
He did walk a lot of guys, up until last year.
And at AAA his walk rate went up quite a bit.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 19, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Until last year is an important distinction, I think
And yes, his walk rate was worse when the competition was better — I would assume that means that he no longer can aim his fastball at the center of the zone and hope for the best, and the nibbling meant he threw more balls.
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