On 'El Hombre' & 'The Man'
by bgh on Feb 14, 2012 7:52 PM EST
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Over the past few days, the inevitable Albert Pujols-centric advertising campaign for the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim was rolled out. The opening advertisements are billboards around Orange County featuring a photograph of Pujols from the back in that near-perfect follow-through. One of the billboards reads "Big A" and another reads "Now Playing." With the Angels' haloed "A" in each, they are nothing more than your standard professional sports franchise billboards. However, there is a third billboard that reads "El Hombre" that has caused Cardinals fans to stand up and take notice.
As Cardinals fans well know, St. Louis Post-Dispatch columnist Bernie Miklasz bestowed the nickname on Pujols several years back. As I remember it, Miklasz meant the nickname an homage to Stan "The Man" Musial and Pujols's Dominican roots. Matt Sebek blogged about it yesterday for Joe Sports Fan and pointed out that Pujols had disavowed the Bernie Miklasz-bestowed nickname out of respect for Musial.
Sebek pulls a quote from a Craig Calcaterra-penned Hardball Talk post preserving an interview that has been swallowed up by stltoday.com. However, the quote also survives in full in a pre-2010 blog post by Miklasz that has somehow survived being swallowed up by stltoday.com. Pujols makes his position on the "El Hombre" nickname crystal clear:
I don't want to be called that. There is one man that gets that respect, and that's Stan Musial. He's The Man. He's The Man in St. Louis. And I know 'El Hombre' is The Man in Spanish. But he is The Man. You can call me whatever else you want, but just don't call me El Hombre.
Sam Miller of the Orange County Register is an excellent writer covering the Angels. He authored the ESPN the Magazine piece on the Angels' signing of Pujols and I, for one, consider Cardinals fans lucky to have him on the Pujols beat as the slugger transitions to a new club in a new league. After reading the Sebek piece, Miller did some digging and wrote a post addressing the use of "El Hombre" with Pujols's image on Angels' billboards. Miller reports that the Angels came up with the campaign and Pujols did not have pre-approval:
The billboards were created by the Angels, says Tim Mead, the team’s vice president of communications. They weren’t created in coordination with Pujols. The team gave his agent a courtesy heads-up but didn’t ask for Pujols to sign off on them. The billboards have nothing to do with a change of heart on Pujols’ part, and they’re not about Stan Musial. "This is our ad campaign," Mead says.
Miller also attempts to explain to his west coast readers the media firestorm in St. Louis that has accompanied Pujols leaving the Cardinals for the Angels.
The "El Hombre" billboards have led to a new cycle of Why Hath He Forsaken Me’s in St. Louis. I read a lot about Albert Pujols right now, and I can’t even describe to you how much energy St. Louis spends on Albert Pujols. Imagine St. Louis came and signed away Disneyland and the beach and tacos. All the tacos. All the tacos in Southern California. This is a rough equivalent about how they feel about Albert Pujols.
In so doing, Miller gets the situation only half-right. There is undeniable resentment towards Pujols on the part of Cardinals fans due to him leaving for Anaheim, but categorizing this as "a new cycle of Why Hath He Forsaken Me" is off-base. This isn't so much about Pujols foresaking us as it is about Pujols appearing to foresake Stan Musial, the Hall-of-Famer who is nicknamed "Baseball's Perfect Knight" and "The Greatest Cardinal of Them All" in addition to "The Man."
There is no question that Pujols leaving struck many Cardinals fans at the core of their fandom. The ham-handed public relations campaign initiated by Pujols and his wife after the decision to leave made the situation even worse. With the seemingly hypocritical-in-hindsight statements made by Pujols in the lead-up to his free agency being played on a loop in the St. Louis media as a backdrop, the resurrection of the "El Hombre" nickname to promote Pujols's arrival in Anaheim struck a nerve. Pujols leaving for more money is one thing but for him to then apparently shed the respect for Musial which led him to disavow the "El Hombre" nickname was simply too much.
3,026 games played, 3,630 hits, seven batting titles, three Most Valuable Player awards, a .330/.416/.508/.924 season at age 41, a statue, a Presidential Medal of Freedom, never an autograph request turned down, and always a smile. Despite Musial's greatness as a person and player, as Joe Posnanski writes, The Man seems to be fading from the consciousness of baseball fans.
Musial just played hard and lived decently. He hit five home runs in a doubleheader, and had five hits on five swings in a game. He hit line drives right back at pitchers and then would go to the dugout after the game to make sure those pitchers were all right. He wasn’t perfect, of course, but he didn’t see the harm in letting people believe in something.
And maybe that sort of understated greatness isn’t meant to be shouted from the rooftops. Maybe Musial is just meant to be quietly appreciated. Every so often, even now, you can read an obituary somewhere in American’s heartland, and you will read about someone who "loved Stan Musial." Everyone so often you will meet someone about 55 years old name Stan, and you will know why.
While we may not shout from the rooftops about his greatness, we do celebrate it with a standing ovations and tears in our eyes each time Musial, now 91 years old, is able to make it onto the field at Busch Stadium. Musial is a player that transcends generations, a living legend as revered by Cardinals fans for his conduct off the field as his accomplishments on it. Over the years, it has become clear that no one is more aware of Musial's greatness than Pujols and that is why so many Cardinals fans' knee jerk reaction to the "El Hombre" billboards was one of defensive anger. To us and to Pujols, there is but one "The Man."
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Whoa:
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 14, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
More specifically:
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 14, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
AWESOME! thanks
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 15, 2012 6:47 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you!!!! I love this!
They will notice and they will giggle.
by papapegasus on Feb 18, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
whether or not albert will be ok
being called el hombre in LA doesn’t really matter to me. stan the man is the definition of a true cardinal that albert could have followed. instead, as we all know, albert followed the money. as far as i’m concerned, the fanfare and nickname can follow him there. albert means virtually nothing but disappointment to cardinals fans now.
Agreed, Albert gave us 11 fantastic and cheap years here including great moments and championships
And now he’s taking 10 very good (actually likely 6 or so good years then some aging years) ad VERY expensive years to LA. I’m not disappointed
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 15, 2012 9:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
"The Man"
In popular culture “you da man” has taken on its own terminology. Calling someone “The Man” or “El Hombre” is meaningless. In baseball Stan “The Man” Musial is recognized in a separate context. “El Hombre” is not neutral in baseball. “The Man” has already been claimed and rightly so. Do I give a hoot that Albert signed with the Angels? Of course. I want him to be a Cardinal.
He took his best offer, and I respect that. Do I respect the “no respect” bullshit spouted out of his and his wife’s mouths? Not at all. Nobody guaranteed $250M gets to be a whiny bitch. I’m not licking my wounds. I think “El Hombre” is disrespectful. If he wants to be called that, well let him. If he doesn’t and he’s too big of a coward to tell the Angels to take it down, well we know better who he is.
by CardinalRules on Feb 15, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The 2004 World Series happened, people.
Get over it, already.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Get over what?
Edmonds sent us to Game 7 with a walk-off in Game 6, and then saved Game 7 with a spectacular diving catch.
Suppan out-pitched Clemens, who pitched Game 7 for Boston.
Boog would have made that play.
I'm not.
This post is about the use of th “El Hombre” nickname on a billboard.
While we’re making distinctions, help me make one between the use of anti-ADHD medication & mechanical adjustments in Andres Torres’s improvement as a hitter.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 14, 2012 8:18 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 13 recs
~_~_~_~_~_~_~THE CALLOUT~_~_~_~_~_~_~
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
A tern for the worse
Boog would have made that play.
by thepainguy on Feb 14, 2012 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 11 recs
This is funny.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
I love homophones
and I had this one on my list.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 14, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
man
this post is an easy typo away from being really offensive! i read it wrong at first
by prophetjohn on Feb 14, 2012 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Your brain
get from the gutter out.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 15, 2012 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
It's not clear to me why writers (or anyone on the blog) should treat cordially with people who show up
and say the equivalent of, “Why did you waste your time writing this crap?” Perceived pariah status is not a free pass to act like a jerk.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
by azruavatar on Feb 14, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It could have just been a general question
It was such a vague post that it strikes me as a little weird to jump to the conclusion that it was some sort of personal attack.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I'm planning a trip down to ST in Jupiter
Multiple times I’ve thought about the best way to get footage of Pujols.
Cool angles and stuff considering the small size of the stadium and how cheap it is to get really close.
And then I’ve caught myself.
But maybe that’s just me.
Boog would have made that play.
A bit strong, don't you think?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
drama
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
BURNINATED
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 14, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
hmmm
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 14, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
It's not like any of us invested any time or joy in Pujols over the years
by mattyfrommo on Feb 14, 2012 8:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
My biggest problem with that nickname
Is that it’s a lazy nickname.
by mattyfrommo on Feb 14, 2012 8:53 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You should just move out to L.A.
Everyone is lazy out there
by mattyfrommo on Feb 14, 2012 8:54 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
this sounds like it might be a good idea
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
5
It literally does not rain here in SF between roughly May and November or so. In the winter it rains a fair bit (not this year, but usually), but mostly it’s just more like LA’s June gloom most of the time.
Note that this does not apply to the western half of the city
Where the summer weather mostly involves fog, and the winter weather mostly involves fog.
Who was it that once said
“The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco”? I seem to recall Shannon saying this, but was it original or was he quoting someone else?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 14, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Also, it's not like it's actually ever cold here
It’s just that tourists tend to picture SoCal when they think of California, and then they come to SF and get highs in the mid-60s in June-August, and they didn’t bring a sweatshirt.
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USCA0987
why would you need a sweatshirt for temps in the mid 60s?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
I think it's probably got more to do with the temperature dropping into the 50s in the evening
But personally, I wear a sweatshirt in the 60s, so…I guess my response to your question is that it’s too cold for short sleeves?
yeah, i mean
i don’t set my thermostat to 65 because it’s not a comfortable temperature
by prophetjohn on Feb 15, 2012 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
i keep forgetting i run hot, damn gingeritis
so for me, mid 60s is like the perfect temp
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
tourits are probably coming from somewhere much hotter at that of year
response to gdm
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 15, 2012 6:58 AM EST up reply actions
I used to commute from SF to San Jose in August.
I’d be peeling off layers as I drove South and piling them on as I drove North. I always needed a fleece in the evening – it was a chilly (because damp) 50.
by peach concrete on Feb 15, 2012 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
I have memories of Shannon and Buck talking about short sleeves in April and coats in June at Candlestick.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Candlestick was often freezing
but that was mostly due to the wind. That park is just not in a good location. Also the fog is really not an issue outside of SF. I live in the Silicon Valley and it is usually sunny here… even in the winter.
by cardsfan_1986 on Feb 14, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
it rains a hella a lot more in ohio than in Seattle
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
bullshit
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Seattle actually does get less precipitation than Cleveland
37.17 inches vs. 39.10 inches.
That said, I imagine there’s more rain in Seattle because some of that is snow in Cleveland.
Seattle is actually pretty dry in the summer, it just has gloomy, rainy winters.
Yeah, same with St. Louis actually
Or maybe we get more than Portland…
Anyway, the rain in the Northwest is more constant but usually less intense. So it rains far more times, but the total measured rainfall is actually not all that high.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Thunderstorms are a thing there, for example
They don’t get them all that often. We get lots of them every year.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
it;'s true, esp since 2000 we're 100 inches over normal
we’re getting between 40- 50 inches a rain a year now
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Considering it didn't rain at all last year.
I’ll take it….for now.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
that'd be better but more expensive
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
definitely prefer the other ones, myself.
except winnie the pujols. like, what the fuck.
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
heh, I don't even remember hearing that one
but what a missed opportunity…Yadi as Piglet, Boog as Tigger, Tony as Christopher Robin, Carp as some character who Milne’s editor forced him to cut because he was swearing too much for a children’s book. Not sure who would be Eeyore, though.
by Robth on Feb 14, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Carp would be a particularly foul-mouthed Rabbit.
Khalil Green would be Eeoyre.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Garcia is Rabbit.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
i think it's because people emotionally invested of themselves in pujols for 11 years.
he’s playing for another team now, but it’s not like history has been erased. additionally, this is relevant because it has to do with “el hombre”/“the man”, which has to do with stan musial.
personally, i don’t think the nickname controversy is that big a deal unless pujols comes out and says he no longer cares about the nickname since he no longer plays in st louis. i think some people will take that as further proof that pujols has been a disingenuous douchebag from the beginning, but i think the nickname thing is all contextual. it makes sense for him to be called el hombre in los angeles. the people here couldn’t care about what st louis perceives as a reference to a former baseball great. and the nickname itself isn’t necessarily referential to musial everywhere. it just seemed forced in st louis because of the cardinals’ history.
all in all, i don’t care much about the issue one way or the other. however, it’s definitely relevant to the cardinals, which is why bgh posted it.
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
by il rosso on Feb 14, 2012 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i would say that los angeles has very little collective memory
as a generalisation, which may help explain why the angels seem to be pushing a marketing strategy that st louis finds in poor taste.
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
I don't think the Angels give two shits what people in StL think.
I don’t think they should, either. We aren’t their audience.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, i agree with this,
but i think bgh’s argument is at least partially that “stan musial owns that nickname”, which leads into “how could they use that nickname, it’s disrespectful to stan”. maybe i’m misreading him though.
in that case, a) el hombre is a different language, and b) i don’t think people here particularly care about their history.
this is probably one of the most stereotyping posts i’ve made here, but i feel it helps explain the situation a bit perhaps?
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
i always thought it was silly
when pujols got annoyed about being call ‘el hombre.’
but if used to disapprove, but has no problem now, then that’s alittle dumb
he probably gave in
especially after moving away from stl. I think it showed some class that he didn’t want to be stealing the Man’s thunder. even if it was just in his own mind. or maybe he just wanted a new nickname.
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
ugh
he hasn’t even given in. he wasn’t asked about the marketing campaign.
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
well, yeah there's that
I’m sure he’s not amused
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
well he never has to worry about stealing his thunder now
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
he should have said he was honored
but if he really wanted to be better and separate
then he was patiently waiting for his “own” nickname
12 in 12, thank you very much
no. in fact all evidence is to the contrary.
the angels explicitly state they did not ask pujols for approval, they simply informed pujols’ agent as a courtesy before the signs went up.
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
i fail at making sense.
i agree with you, pj. sorry for being unclear.
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
Agreed with both of those statements
You could also think about it like this: while Pujols was in St. Louis El Hombre is a direct reference to Stan, now that he’s in Anaheim El Hombre no longer carries the same connotations.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 14, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
ok so that's basically what Il Rosso said
carry on
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 14, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he signed with them this offseason
;)
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of
Did you guys know that Ryan Howard’s lower leg area was originally created in the St. Louis area, and is now not functioning correctly to the point of hampering the rest of the body’s ability to partake in sport?
Shoddy St. Louis workmanship
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
I've only read a few pieces by Miller.
I don’t like what appears to be his columnist act. I like his reporting.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 14, 2012 8:16 PM EST via Android app reply actions
That's funny 'cause they're the halos!
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 14, 2012 8:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
don't wear an angels hat!
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Cap 'em!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I believe that makes you a mad hatter.
Oh well. Hatters gonna hat.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 14, 2012 11:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 10 recs
Android rec
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 14, 2012 11:54 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
A friend of mine and die-hard Cards fan passes the new "El Hombre" billboard every day on the way in to work.
She’s considering moving.
by peach concrete on Feb 14, 2012 8:21 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
She should consider graffiti.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 14, 2012 8:23 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 6 recs
we need a picture of said billboard
and then throw it up and let the veb community have some fun with photoshop…
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
Help yourself to the photo---
wouldn’t mind credit, but the most important thing is that it is creatively yet harmlessly defaced in as many different ways and as many different places around the internet as possible.
by ABlogOfTheirOwn on Feb 14, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
She has, along with arson.
She says she’s afraid of jail and heights.
by peach concrete on Feb 14, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
I haven't met one person who really cares about Pujols leaving that much, let alone spending much energy on him
He got $250 million, good for him. The Cardinals are still really good, and are better off long term without that contract, good for us.
El Hombre is a stupid nickname outside of St. Louis considering the only thing that makes it reasonable is the Stan reference, but whatever. Like I said in another thread, this is a city with a team called the Lakers so it’s not like they’re too caught up with the meaning of things. Who cares. We’ll still see if they’re calling him The Man when he’s 42 and getting 30 mil.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 14, 2012 8:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
And perhaps Albert heard that Anaheim was thinking of calling him “El Hombre”, shrugged, and said something to the effect of, “Well I guess that’s cool now that I’m in the Angels organization. It’s not like they’ve got Stan Musial among their alumni.” (Disclaimer: I know nothing about the Angels organization except that they appear to have a stupid marketing department.)
by peach concrete on Feb 14, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
the angels have explicitly stated they did not ask albert about it.
they told his agent they were doing the campaign as a courtesy, but pujols had no say one way or the other.
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
My workplace (downtown STL) was nothing but "F**k Pujols"
for several days after he signed with the Angels. There are still signs outside peoples cubes about it. The casual fans that I know cared.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
hell, i care
he was the best player on the team for 11 consecutive years
by prophetjohn on Feb 14, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Remember that there's a large Spanish-speaking component to his fan base now.
I have absolutely no problem with this. He avoided the nickname when it looked like it would denigrate Stan The Man (about whom my opinions should be obvious from my handle). Good for him. Stan never played for the Angels, or in the American League at all. Different situation now, and it’s not only good for his team that he’s getting this nickname that engages Spanish speakers; it’s probably good for the game.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 14, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
All of this.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
stan never played anywhere except for the cardinals
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 15, 2012 7:09 AM EST up reply actions
i am not at all surprised LA is stealing an idea & passing it off as their own
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
maybe the marketing dept had no idea, not bothering to check what has been said, marketed, etc in StL because
it was in their mind it’s irrelevant and they think it’s original
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 15, 2012 7:11 AM EST up reply actions
Hollywood has been out of original ideas for years
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
yes that is true
and not just recent years, but i think it’s getting worse. some of the biggest publicity is all about comic characters. not that they aren’t entertaining mind you i’ve been enjoying them.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 15, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'm tired of thinking/reading/talking about stuff like this
can real baseball please start now.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Feb 14, 2012 8:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I feel trapped in the middle of the winter
oh wait, I am
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
POWER TEAM IL ROSSO TEHZACHATAK AND CLANK ACTIVATE
.. where are you clank
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
That's what he wants you to think.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
And Carlos Lee.
Best thing to do is load up on Astros. Lots of Astros.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 14, 2012 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
We'll call it, the Mozeliak Method
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Especially the catchers.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I thought the Chris Snyder signing was pretty good.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 14, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
I forgot about him. Was thinking about Quintero/Castro/Towles.
Yeah, that was smart.
He’s also from UH, so he’ll add a couple of people per game.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Yes
You want VEL to be a keeper league so I can keep Wainwright at his ridiculously low salary from last year.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
he votes one way, and then wants keepers
hmmmm
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
I voted for keepers!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
it's tied now
but there are a lot of teams yet to vote
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
It's 3 against now.
Where’s Cody democracy when you need him it?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I'll vote for keepers going forward, but not if we start from last year.
I haven’t even looked at who my keepers would be, to be honest. I just don’t like the idea of starting it in such unplanned fashion.
I'm improvising again
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
did i vote already? know i looked but not sure if i pushed the button
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 15, 2012 7:13 AM EST up reply actions
OK.
Standard-ish roto league.
Keepers are not at a particular cost, though some slots are tougher to fill.
A) The easiest slot: 1 of the following: Albert, Juston Upton,
B) The most difficult slot: 1 of: Mike Stanton or Strasburg
C) The in-between slot: 1 of: Mike Trout, Desmond Jennings, or Eric Hosmer.
I could keep the other guy between Stras/Stanton with pick A if I want.
Pujols, Stanton, Trout.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Upton, Strasburg, Hosmer
The middle one is tough, but I’m still of the mind that Strasburg has transcendent upside. 2011 Verlander numbers, but more strikeouts.
Last one is hard, too. For fantasy, though, I lean Hosmer. I think he’s going to mash, and sooner rather than later.
Upton I take for the SBs
If it were a single year, I’d probably take Albert. But Upton can be the reliable cornerstone of a keeper team for years.
Upton, Stanton, DEEZY
Jennings is going to be 15/40 every year and potential for more every year. Hosmer is a 1B so he has put up amazing numbers to be that valuable in fantasy.
you should keep young, rivera, hafner, papeldouche, hanley, Furcal, K-Rod, and Pedroia
get rid of all those young, cheap offensive talents like Trout, Harper, and Hosmer.
Glad I could help.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
yes, tell me all of your plans.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Given that Pujols apparently wasn't consulted, I don't understand the tone of the post.
Also, I don’t care that Pujols left, don’t live in St. Louis, and wouldn’t care if Pujols puts El Hombre on the back of his jersey so I’m probably not in the target demographic.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 14, 2012 8:46 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
+1
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Pujols wasn't consulted when called El Hombre here
He went out of his way to make it known that he didn’t like the nickname. Why hasn’t he done the same there?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
the billboards went up a couple days ago.
i’m sure if he cares he’ll say something.
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
probably doesn't want to start off on the wrong foot
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he is doing that right now, for all we know.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 14, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Well the guy that should know just wrote an article complaining about StL still being butt hurt by Albert leaving
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I really don't have much to say about baseball right now
So here’s a victory bird.
by mojowo11 on Feb 14, 2012 8:47 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
IIiiiIIIII wiiiiLLLlllLLlll aLLLLLWaaaaAAAys
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
by il rosso on Feb 14, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
reeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeCccc ThIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiiiIIIIIIIIIiisssssssssss
by peach concrete on Feb 14, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
this song always reminds me of the shower scene in Bulletproof
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 14, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
why am i just seeing this for the first time?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
I predict a cardinals pitcher will throw a no hitter/perfect game in 2012
and it will most likely be against the astros. I base this claim on absolutely nothing.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
well, picking the Astros you're definitely playing the odds correctly
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
ITT
some people care about the nickname
some people don’t
many people didn’t know pujols was not consulted
some people dealt out sick burns
two people posted pictures of birds
(one was a pun about terns)
one person attempted to divert conversation by talking about fantasy baseball
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
by il rosso on Feb 14, 2012 9:01 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Chocolate covered strawberry thrown on the ice in Columbus.
During a Blue Jackets PP. Just weird.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 9:05 PM EST reply actions
...gdm?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
like i'd waste good chocolate like that
come on man! do you even know me?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
My mom just told me this.
Why was it not eaten? What is wrong with people?
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
it's ohio, i've been telling you about these freaks for years
nobody ever listens to me
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
somebody's GF did NOT want to go to a hockey game
On v-day.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 14, 2012 11:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I still don't have anything to say about baseball
So here is a screenshot that I will cherish forever, taken seconds after DanUp changed the tagline.
by mojowo11 on Feb 14, 2012 9:06 PM EST reply actions 19 recs
WP: Jake Westbrook
yeah, you sure don’t see many of those
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
Fan Confidence Poll is amusing.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
still voting 10.
That one week of 100 was a majestic feeling, however.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i'm afraid to see what happens if i don't vote 10s
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
You have just said plenty.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I think it was Nolan Ruan's prediction
We dangled him being right in front of him and then on the last strike took it away twice
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 15, 2012 9:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Those kids are probably really disappointed in their mother or father
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
yep, this is frustrating to watch
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I don't care about the El Hombre thing because
Pujols is dead to me.
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 14, 2012 9:17 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
puwho?
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
I retired both of my sherseys in December
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 14, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
my shershey was already retired
no fit
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
is it just me
or do those majestic shirts just fit like shit in general?
by prophetjohn on Feb 14, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
i agree
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
The only thing he could've done to make me feel this way is sign with the Cubs.
I actually think I’ve handled this a lot better than I thought I would, though. This team is still really fucking good and better off in the long term without Albert.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
this is turning into some kind of Valentine's Day breakup with Pujols
bye, angel
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 9:36 PM EST reply actions
WTF!
Another last-second goal?
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 9:37 PM EST reply actions
put on the fourth line and let Reaves beat the hell out of Dorsett
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Men's full-contact figure skating!
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
No, we don't start our season until March
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
oh my god Jeremy Lin just topped himself.
i just wet my pants
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
This might just be my favorite VEB article of all-time
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 14, 2012 9:39 PM EST reply actions
cross posted from Posting and Toasting (Knicks SBN blog)
Holy fuck. For those that didn’t see:
Shumpert gets the shot with the Knicks tied (we shouldn’t be winning this game) with about 26 seconds to go. Hits the rim.
Knicks get the rebound, with under 24 (around 20 seconds but its semantics at this point) to go.
Jeremy Lin gets the ball, and holds it at the front court.
With 3 seconds to go he fires the three pointer.
Now this is a three pointer about 5 or so feet past the top of the arc, so for those who don’t watch basketball a VERY far 3 pointer.
Lin isn’t a great 3 point shooter.
It’s all net.
Knicks up 90-87 with .5 seconds to go.
I am doing airplanes around my room.
WOW.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
The three pointer wasn't that far. It was pretty much right behind the line
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
yeah, dude was false
it sure felt like a 30 footer though, holy crap
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
by tehzachatak on Feb 14, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
He also needs to stop turning over the ball so much
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
yes- but at least 4 of those were off double teams in the first half
which he was not expecting, and needs to learn to handle. he actually did a much better job this game of not throwing the ball away, which has been pretty much all of his turnovers in the past 5 games.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
by tehzachatak on Feb 14, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
his aggregate AST/TO ratio is still not that bad. not Nash-like, but most people aren't
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
by tehzachatak on Feb 14, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Not possible.
It cold be fantastic if it hadn’t happened.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
meh
Terns of Endurement
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 15, 2012 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
So just to be clear....
Cards’ fans give nickname “El Hombre” to Albert Pujols. Pujols leaves. Cards’ fans whine, bitch, moan, and cry about the Angels calling Albert “El Hombre”. Best fans in baseball strike again.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:13 PM EST reply actions
also
pujols insists on not being called el hombre in STL, (possibly) welcomes it in LA
by zoomzoomj88 on Feb 14, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
even if he does...................BIG FUCKING DEAL!
Albert IS “the man” for the Angels. Stan Musial was “the man” for the Cardinals. Why do you honestly give a fuck if the Angels, their fans, or Albert himself let the nickname carry on?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
this is how i feel
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Except he was still called "El Hombre" all the freaking time in St. Louis
Even after he spoke out against it. People don’t get to choose their nicknames. Pujols is and has been stuck with “El Hombre”, whether he likes it or not.
by bailorg on Feb 15, 2012 12:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is one of the most correct posts of the entire thread
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
pretty much
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think you left out some important aspects
and I think you did so intentionally to support your narrative.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Feb 14, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
there is nothing important about a nickname.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
If that's the case
No one should give a fuck about Stan being called “The Man”.
JEBUS. Albert was here for 11 awesome years. Why do people get upset that some of us have an emotional attachment that won’t go away, quite as quickly as it does for others.
That all being said, I still love Albert, and I won’t be upset with him unless he comes out as openly hypocritical about this situation.
by mattyfrommo on Feb 14, 2012 10:47 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Because "Stan the Man" rhymes. Duh.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
a new yorker gave him that nick name, well a bunch of new yorkers actually
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Here comes that man again.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
OK, that tears it.
Pujols is a Na’vi. Your argument is invalid.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 10:20 PM EST reply actions
pecota has ankiel's top two comps as Edmonds and van slyke
I think that’s fair — I bet both of them could match Ankiel’s output in 2012 if given a chance.
Just win
by The Duke on Feb 14, 2012 10:24 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
sounds about right.
I might give a light edge to Ankiel over Van Slyke, considering Andy is 51 and Rick is 32
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Today's Halo's Heaven post
was titled “Albert Pujols Valentines Day Love Fest”…up to the moment it has inspired 3 Albert related comments. This is the only one of them that qualifies as 100% positive.
I told my girlfriend to get me the Albert Pujols Topps card
I think it’s like $140 on eBay
Representing the Angels in Sin City.
by maze88 on Feb 14, 2012 12:07 PM EST via mobile replyactions
What a weird Bizzaro World that Halo’s Heaven is.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:38 PM EST reply actions
140 dollars!
just light that money on fire
by guillermozeliak on Feb 14, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
These are the newest baseball cards I ever want to own:
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
oh crap...way bigger than I thought.
Sorry!
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
That's what I always say
by mattyfrommo on Feb 14, 2012 10:48 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
oh and of course I mean the original version of the '82 Ozzie...
none of that lame reproduction shit.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
longest screename ever
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Westcoastbirdwatcher actually has 1 more letter than mine
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
I haven't heard that name spoke in ages
it must be a sign
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
just please don't type his name four more times
he’s like candyman, that one
by peach concrete on Feb 14, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Android rec
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 14, 2012 10:59 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
last time I heard it was fairly recently...
anyone remember Uncle Lights? Azru was convinced it was WCBW and wound up banning him on 2 seperate occasions.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
I'm wondering if any of those accounts were actually him
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
haha...who knows?
They might have all been him. None of them may have been him. Either way, they all deserved it.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
they were just cody
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
haven't seen him around in a while...
He must be pretty busy with that towel gig. (shudders)
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Not much commenting at all, really.
Heck, they’re actually talking about what they got their SOs for Valentine’s Day! Don’t they know there’s baseball minutia to obsess over?
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
No time....too many pornstars to buy for.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm just going to leave this here
Study shows elbow position has no effect on injury rates.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
what is elbow
drag mean?….disclaimer i have no clue about pitching mechanics…when i played i was more of slinging it in their side arm
by guillermozeliak on Feb 14, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'm looking it up
I’ve never heard the term before.
Lots of people talk about how leading with the elbow and dropping the elbow are bad, and this may be what the study is referring to.
Boog would have made that play.
Yeah, that's what it is
They looked at whether a low elbow is actually as bad as many people think.
It’s not, because the rotation of the shoulders raises the elbow into the plane of the shoulders (which is why arm slot is determined by shoulder tilt).
“Where a baseball pitcher holds his elbow while throwing might make his fastball livelier, but it probably won’t affect his risk of arm injury, a researcher said here.
In a motion-analysis study of 54 college-age pitchers, the elbow “drop” (vertical position relative to the shoulder) and “drag” (horizontal position) was unrelated to estimated stresses on the elbow or shoulder, said Carl W. Nissen, MD, of Connecticut Children’s Medical Center in Farmington, Conn.
But elbow drag of 10 cm — meaning that, when the shoulders were squared to home plate during the throw, the elbow was that distance behind the shoulder — was associated with a decrease in ball velocity of 1.3 m/sec (2.9 mile per hour), Nissen said."
http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/AAOS/31159
This is more commonly referred to as Abduction and Adduction of the Humerus.
Boog would have made that play.
Way to cover half of it
Yes, they were looking at the abduction/adduction of the humerus. They were also looking at the horizontal abduction/adduction of the humerus. Horizontal abduction/adduction of the humerus is what they are talking about when they refer to elbow drag. It isn’t clear in the press release, but the article that you linked to clearly indicates that is what they are looking at.
From the press release(emphasis mine):
The results of this study suggest that an improperly positioned elbow (visual or true) is not a factor in increasing injury rates as neither elbow drop nor drag correlated with elbow stress
They were clearly looking at two components. The component that they found to correlate with decreased velocity is increased horizontal abduction relative to the thorax (trunk), or elbow drag.
Why is this important and why did I feel the need to share it here? Increased horizontal abduction is going to show up as an inverted W (BTW, TPG, I believe you have misidentified shoulder horizontal abduction as horizontal adduction on your website here under “The Inverted W Defined”)
What is even more interesting about this study is that it finds a positive correlation between elbow drag and decrease in velocity: The more elbow drag, the slower you throw. You have indicated that the inverted positions are taught to increase velocity, which I believe is true. The problem is, with the inverted positions, you leave yourself open to a greater potential for having a timing issue, which would increase elbow drag and in turn decrease velocity.
With all of this said, I still do not disagree with your claims. You have correctly identified the issue being timing, which this study supports. However, you blame the elbow positions, which this study clearly refutes. However you look at this study and gloss over the fact that it directly refutes your claims and that is, well, exactly what I would expect from you.
Also of note to me:
“One of the biggest problems we see [in treating children with pitching injuries] is that they do try to emulate what the big guys will do on TV,” he said. “They can’t do it — they don’t have the core strength, they don’t have the leg strength. They try to go through a windup and go to a one-legged pedestal and they lose their balance.”
It’s not just the children that have these problems. I’d be willing to wager that the majority of pitchers who suffer injuries have a weakness in key core or lower extremity musculature that played a part in their injury.
*Everyone please keep in mind that all of this is being gleaned from a press release and an article written by someone who attended the meeting where the article was discussed. We can re-hash this even more when the full article becomes available.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Feb 15, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I've always said...
…the issue isn’t the position of the elbow, it’s the effect that the movements of the elbow have on one’s timing.
The elbow drag stuff is interesting, because it could explain the problems of Mark Mulder, Jeff Francis, Ryan Madson, and others who do show some sign of elbow drag.
However, I need to see the study because you do see lots of scap loading and elbow drag in very hard throwers.
P.S. Different people, or maybe professions, use adduction and abduction differently (and interchangeably) when it comes to the horizontal direction. Some studies will call it abduction and others will call it adduction.
Boog would have made that play.
I agree
we’re making a lot of assumptions based off of a press release. That is why I made sure to make that point earlier.
I’d say the reason you see it in some hard throwers is because those people are exceptions with extremely strong core muscles who are able to overcome the drag. It could also just be a visual drag that, when they get to the critical point of foot down with trunk rotating, the arm is in the correct position.
P.S. Those people are wrong: Abduction= movement away from midline. Adduction= movement toward midline. It shouldn’t be something that is debatable.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
What would be interesting...
…would be to build a longitudinal study off of this data. See if some measurements are tied to more or certain types of injury over time.
Boog would have made that play.
woah.
what a concept
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
by tehzachatak on Feb 14, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Pretty sure multiple people offered to do a longitudinal study for you
all they wanted you to do was identify the variables to look at, however you refused.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Feb 15, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Yes but...
I didn’t have the data or any good way of compiling it.
You could very easily get it from the authors of this study.
Boog would have made that play.
but... you... didn't need to have the data....
gonna just leave this conversation, i shouldn’tt be posting this to begin with
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
How are you supposed to do the kind of study I'm proposing...
…without data?
What I’d love to do is measure the angles, movements, and timings of pitchers and then see if the those correlate to greater risks of injuries at some point down the road.
To do that you’d have to have data, and the people who wrote that paper obviously have the data on hand.
I’ve proposed this to ASMI, because they have lots of this kinds of data, but they haven’t bitten. They are just correlating angles, movements, and timings with velocity, not with long-term health.
Boog would have made that play.
listenin to some Sade
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 10:49 PM EST reply actions
I really really like the first album
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
I'm guessing the person who cares the least about this "el hombre" bidniss
is stan the man himself. and not just because he’s so old. he wouldn’t have cared when he was 20 or 30 or 50 or 70. this is why he’s so beloved, i think. because he doesn’t seem to have an ounce of pettiness in him and doesn’t get all worked up over silly things. maybe it’s because he grew up when he grew up, where he grew up. there were 1,000 other things you could get worked up about, like having enough food to eat or not dying by the time you’re 50.
or maybe it’s just that he’s a supernaturally nice guy who doesn’t try to make himself feel better by making others feel worse. that’s a rare trait.
something is happening here but you don't know what it is
by Cha-Cha on Feb 14, 2012 10:55 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
going to war too....but you said it basically
by guillermozeliak on Feb 14, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
He did seem to get worked up about what the birds were doing to his statue, though.
Can’t say I blame him for that.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 14, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
so you're telling me the Angels didn't know? if you believe that, i've got an Arch for sale you just gotta see
fuck the Angles
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
by gdm426 on Feb 14, 2012 11:21 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
They are so obtuse.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 14 recs
I'll cosine on that
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Feb 14, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
this makes me want to go off on a tangent
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
you're acutely aware of the situation
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
it's just a reflex
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
straight
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
you should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Feb 15, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
i can't look at myself in the mirror
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
try creeping up on it from a different angle of slope
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 15, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
All things being equilateral, the Angles should have known better.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 14, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Pujols may have been hoping for an alternate exterior
corresponding to his nickname situation
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I love this entire subthread.
You are all wonderful human beings.
by peach concrete on Feb 14, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm looking forward to the supplementary picks in the draft and the complementary players we were able to add.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lemma tell you what I think: we better scout those guys well.
Because stats are no replacement for theorem with your own eyes.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 15, 2012 12:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
it's entirely plausible that the Angels were unaware that he didn't like the nickname.
He said so in 1 or 2 local interviews. Why would the Angels be aware of this?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 14, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
there are no such things as coincidences
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Yeah, screw the Angles
I like the Pictsburgh Pirates better anyway. Heck, I even like the Red Saxons better than the Angles now.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 15, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
seems like all these teams should be highly concerned
About the Seattle Mari-Normans.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 15, 2012 12:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
"you can observe a lot just by watching"
yogi berra
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 14, 2012 11:56 PM EST reply actions
This is just a misunderstanding
Folks in LA weren’t sensitive to the Stan the Man connection, and the PR people set this up as a promotion, without talking to Albert. Teams in all sports don’t like negative attention. My guess is the “El Hombre” promotion disappears in a few days and is replaced with something else.
People need to ease up. Pitchers and Catchers are about to report!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 15, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
If LA does anything in the world based on StL (other than gloat)
I will be shocked.
But, as you say, PITCHERS AND CATCHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Feb 15, 2012 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
The jilted lover shit is appropriate for V-Day
I find it annoying. He’s gone, I’ve moved on to the point that he could wipe his Pujol off with a Cards shersey and I wouldn’t care.
by openside on Feb 15, 2012 2:08 AM EST via Android app reply actions
How quick was Stan?
He’s got a ton of triples.
by openside on Feb 15, 2012 8:40 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
back then triples didn't require great speed because all the parks were huge.
like 450 to center huge.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 15, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
Great write up
Thank you bgh
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 15, 2012 9:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm wondering who's the old guy sitting next to Stan.
Got to be an old catcher. Look at that hand. I think Joe Garagiola once said that when two old catchers shook hands it took a plumber to get their hands apart.
Is this a new sitcom / drama Fox is bringing out as a rehash of the "Chico and The Man" series?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
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