one week till pitchers and catchers report
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 4:33 AM EST
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Printthe trucks have hit the road. ninety gazillion baseballs are bound for jupiter (not that jupiter).
meanwhile, the club keeps making small moves to improve depth, while it quietly plays a last-hand-on-the-car waiting game with roy oswalt. earlier, the club signed a minor league contract with alex cora, hopefully to be the eleventh-string guy called up rather than making kyle lohse play second base on his off-days.
maybe a more interesting signing was yesterday's minor league signing of scott linebrink. hopefully, he won't cut in line ahead of the more deserving young relievers. but, as relief depth that can be stowed in the minors at little to no cost, he seems like an excellent value. he's older (35), and he had a down year last year. he may be in a decline phase. on the other hand, he's been a pretty decent reliever in the past. bgh showed us yesterday how well he compared to kyle mcclellan in 2011. if anything, calling linebrink a mcclellan clone is selling him short. zips thinks linebrink will turn out more like mitch boggs - both have a projection for a 99 era+. mcclellan on the other hand projects to have only an 88 era+. a reliever who projects to be a hair below average is a good thing to get on a minor league deal, however you slice it.
the other most recent signing was a little younger and a little further from the majors. the cardinals signed andres serrano, a 17-year-old hurler from the dominican. for $750,000, getting a young pitcher with a fastball reportedly sitting in the low-90's, reaching up to 95 mph, with a nice curveball to complement his fastball. don't expect him to show up in jupiter next saturday.
but the gang has already started assembling. yadier molina and tony cruz have been catching pitches from adam wainwright, who apparently is in . . . wait for it . . . the best shape of his life. tyler greene and - bizarrely - rick ankiel have been standing in to take pitches against waino. it's great to see him obviously raring to go. i'm not sure that he would have told us that he felt terrible, but ordinary optimism wouldn't require the kind of hyperbolic commentary we've heard from him so far, as well as from the catchers and hitters sitting in with him.
not in the best shape of his life is allen craig, who isn't running and isn't taking swings. he is still rehabbing the muscles in his leg, following knee surgery a few weeks after the world series. it's hard to know how much time he'll need to get back into playing shape once his rehab is done.
stories to watch for:
catchers: bryan anderson and tony cruz face off to find out who gets a big league backup role. but monitoring the roles and commentary from coaches and pitchers is essential to seeing who the club is going to trust in the future. even for catchers who remain far from the majors - like cody stanley and robert stock are trying to impress.
catcher remains a role where subjective impressions are very important. spring training is one of the only chances young catchers get to impress the major league coaching staff. and matheny will be inclined to take catcher development pretty seriously.
left-handed relief: unless rj swindle really impresses, or someone gets injured, the major league staff is pretty much set.but the day is coming when the cardinals will rely on internal lefty depth. sam freeman is on the 40 man already. john gast makes his second non-roster invite appearance, after wowing the club with his magical pickoff move. other possible left-handed relievers include nick greenwood (who's been unimpressive since being got as the other part of the ryan ludwick trade) and kevin siegrist. a prospect who looks like a real future lefty-specialist could move quickly.
starting pitching: there's a good chance lance lynn could be a better choice as a starter than jake westbrook, or even kyle lohse. if roy oswalt doesn't sign, does the club throw a starting pitching competition open? can shelby miller make himself irresistable to the club and move his september promotion forward to april? probably not, but it's definitely worth watching our almost major league ready top pitching prospect. it will also be interesting to see which, among the other options, the court lets take the most starts. do they keep trying mcclellan as a starter? do they take long looks at potential spot starters cleto or dickson?
right-handed relief: less interesting that starters, this category is basically defined as pitchers not good enough (or ready enough) to start. still, watch some guys to begin spring training as relievers. for some, this may represent a role shift. adam ottavino probably pitches most of this season in the bullpen at memphis. joe kelly and jordan swagerty are to other prospects with real question marks on whether they can start. beginning spring training in the bullpen is not the end of the world, but it might lend some credence to the notion that the club views them as relievers long-term.
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Let's see:
Lose Albert, Tony, Dunc, Dotel, AJ and chop Craig off at the knee
Add: ?
Gotta’ drink a lot of Kool Aid or single malt to make the tradeoff look good. . .. Still good single malt aged about 12years. That maybe about the average of MLB years of Beltan, Fural, Berkman, Carp .. .. optimistic??
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
wainwright? beltran?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 5:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Roster
There has been addition by subtraction, too. Theriot will not play a single game at SS. Schumaker will hopefully not play a single game at 2B. The new MIF will likely be an upgrade offensively and defensively.
Then there are the additions via health. One hopes Wainwright will be back and effective. If he is, that’s a big pitching upgrade. If Freese is able to play 130 games, that will hopefully be a significant upgrade at 3B.
To be sure, there are lots of hopes and if’s, but it’s Spring Training and all clubs have them.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 11, 2012 9:23 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'm not quite as optimistic as you are
In regards to Skip not playing a single game at second base. I just have a hard time believing they gave him a 2 year deal to be a 5th outfielder and to PH.
Of course I’m still holding out hope for a spring trade involving both Skip and K-Mac.
by mattyfrommo on Feb 11, 2012 9:38 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
If Greene and/or Descalso play well enough, Schumaker should never play 2B.
He might get a handful of games there even if Descalso and Greene play well and are healthy, but he shouldn’t. My greatest concern is concurrent slow starts from Greene and Descalso allowing Schumaker to worm his stone-handed way back into the infield.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That's why I'm not optimistic
But here’s hoping Matheny doesn’t like driving us crazy!
by mattyfrommo on Feb 11, 2012 11:04 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Agree on hoping for a trade of Skip, K-mac
Cannot think off hand who would trade for them, however.
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
I'm guilty of this too
from a purely statistical, analytic standpoint; however, there is something to be said for loyalty in sports.
bullpen
Let’s not forget we don’t start the season with Franklin and Augenstein holding down the back end of the bullpen or Miller and Tallet facing off lefties in key situations.
play a hard nine
Actually, given Punto's performance last year
We’re likely not going to be much better in the MIF.
At any rate, I dislike comparing to last years team and using that to make projections. Just look at actually projections. The Cards project to be like an 88-95 win team depending on who you talk to.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Punto played in 63 games and totaled 166 PAs.
Yes, he was worth 1.3 fWAR during those 63 games, but I think not having the defensive combination of Theriot and Schumaker getting the lion’s share of the innings at SS and 2B will make the MIF better than it was in 2011.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
No Ryan Franklin
God the bullpen in April last year was horrible
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
I just hope this club isn't uber-disappointing like the 07 club
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 11, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
But we had Kip Wells! KIP WELLS!!!
But seriously, it’s hard for me to see a losing record this year without a lot going wrong. And anyway, I can’t get too uber-disappointed the year after winning a WS. (It’s also interesting that 2007 wasn’t even that big a drop-off in terms of W/L from 2006 – 83-78 vs. 78-84 – although that’s partially explained by all the injuries in 2006 and overachievement in 2007, when our pythag was 71-91.)
by BTown Birds fan on Feb 11, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
95 win team is my guess on the low end
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 11, 2012 10:50 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
On the low end?
I’m thinking 95 , tops! And that’s with an entire season of healthy Waino, Garcia, and Carp. Plus a repeat of Berking, and Beltran being better than last year. This team is just too old in some key spots for me to expect more than 90-92 wins.
by mattyfrommo on Feb 11, 2012 11:08 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Really? On the low end?
I like it, but I’m assuming this is a 88-93 win team. I have a tough time expecting Lohse to duplicate his 2011 season and I don’t expect much from Westbrook. Berkman repeating his 2011 would be a pleasant surprise, but I don’t think it can be depended on. Beltran, Furcal, and Carpenter are major injury risks. And we still aren’t 100% certain on what we can expect from Matheny,2B, Freese, and Motte. If everything goes according to plan, than this team could win 105 games, but I think there’s a lot of reason for pessimism, unfortunately. Also, it’s awesome that expecting 88 wins is being pessimistic….sorry, Pirates’ fans.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
162-0 baby!
Come on, baseball
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Feb 11, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
The first perfect season in baseball!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Tigers in 3!
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 11, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
That's, like
clinching in mid-August…
Sure would be nice to have that peace of mind.
Cards fan in Middle East
team might lose the edge though
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:49 AM EST up reply actions
true
but, one year after winning it all, I’d be willing to see what happens anyway.
I mean, it would be the first post-ring PS appearance (not to mention >.500 season) since ’68, i.e in my lifetime.
Cards fan in Middle East
wow
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 7:53 AM EST up reply actions
This would only be in an everything happens perfectly situation.
Like Furcal, Beltran, Berkman, Waino and Carpenter being their old selves. Motte emerging as a dominant closer. Craig, Freese and Greene blossoming into great everyday players. Molina and Lohse repeating there 2011 seasons. Westbrook bouncing back to have a solid season.
Trust me, I have no visions of this team cracking 100 wins.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
yes to everything, but Lohse has another 2008 caliber season!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Well, lets just be greedy then.
I want:
Lohse’s ‘08 season (3.1 WAR)
Molina’s ‘11 (4.1)
Westy’s ‘06 (4.5)
Furcal’s ‘05 (5.0)
Waino’s ‘10 (6.1)
Carp’s ‘05 (6.8)
Holliday’s ‘07 (7.7)
Beltran’s ‘06 (7.9)
Berkman’s ’08 (7.9)
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
and I wouldn't mind adding Oswalt's '02 (6.6)
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
let's just do this thing then
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
It appears you have replaced Jaime with Oswalt.
I’m not sure I’m up for that
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
I havent got to crunch the numbers too much
But ive seen people come up with not too nonsensical projections for this team of 105 wins. Ok, my statement on the low end was too extreme, as i think itll be about a 96 win team at this point.
There are a lot of ifs for this team, but its hard not to be confident about players like wainwright and berkman, who i think are being sold a little short in some circles. I also think furcal will be really good this year, and if they limit schus playing time that shoulx help a lot. And of course, no theriot botching plays at ss, hopefully no bullpen implosion, less injuries than Last year, etc
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 11, 2012 11:54 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
that was a very high number of injuries, especially fairly serious ones with waino, freese, and craig, and iir holliday missing more games
than i can recently recall due to weird stuff … appendix, moth, muscle strain possibly due to coming back to hard and strong after appendix was taken out. not sure about the tendinitis might have been a sh on that one.
pujols miraculously healing broken wrist, punto was out injured a considerable amounts as well and there were other shorter ones, sanchez and lance’s backs, etc.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
don't go out on a limb, or anything ;)
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
This is the year we draft
A catcher with that 19th pick. Our manager is a former catcher. I can feel it. Go, go, Stryker Trajan!
Stryker Trahan too!
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 11, 2012 10:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'd be shocked
if Stryker is still there at the 19th pick, but hey, it’s nice to dream. If it happens, start the celebration early.
Someone should host a forum about Stryker Trajan.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
better get some insurance
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
2 thoughts
Hopefully Linebrink will be the 1st or 2nd man up from Memphis if/when bullpen pitchers get hurt.
What about Cruz/Anderson alternating 2 week stretches in Memphis and St. Louis learning from Yadi and Matheny for the season? Then, if Molina bolts for Angels’ country (or elsewhere) they have both benefited from the situation.
Neither Cruz nor Anderson should be considered an option for starting in 2013.
There will be enough options in free agency or trade to keep the club from having to resort to this.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
I hope that it doesn't come to that either.
I only have Cruz and Anderson projected for .297 and .291 wOBAs, respectively, for next season. However, I think that both of them should be given the opportunity I listed above. Even if Yadi doesn’t leave, then allowing them to do this for 2-3 years would keep us from having to pay double for a veteran backup catcher who gives us the same type of wOBA:
Laird 2011: .279 wOBA ($1M)
LaRue 2010: .270 ($950K)
LaRue 2009: .279 ($950K)
LaRue 2008: .286 ($850K, he was with us 3 years? I thought only 2)
Bennett 2007: .269 ($850K)
Bennett 2006: .262 ($800K)
Diaz 2005: .236 ($600K)
So the Cardinals have gotten progressively better in their backup catchers since 2005, however having two catchers splitting time as backups – while making league minimum – with possible .290+ wOBAs, learning from two of the best defensive catchers in Cardinals history in the process can’t be a bad thing.
Tony Cruz is going to have to be the backup going forward.
After we sign Miguel Montero, we’ll need a righthanded option for catcher instead of just having 2 lefties.
SIGN MONTERO!
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
interesting idea.
having looked at this and read all the comments, the Cards need to sign Molina. He may be at max value, but that’s not how we should look at it. He’s the best answer the Cards have for next 3-4 years, so they just need to pay up. It’s good for Yadi and good for us. With a bunch of young arms coming up, I like having Molina and Matheny to get them through the arb years.
With Pujols, they had a lot of credible replacement options. I see the Cards getting this done quickly if for no other reason to prove to fan base that they understand not every situation is the same.
Just win
I agree that the Cardinals must sign Molina.
Montero would ease the pain, but Yadi needs to be the guy even if it costs $12 million per. The money is available.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Don't know how much money is available
But I do think he will be signed before Opening Day. Just a hunch.
I hope so, we are a position to compete in the PS now and hopefully through the immediate future, and then when the replacements
and youngsters like Craig are ready to take over the team.
Would sure be nice to have Yadi calling the pitches and being the awesome backstop and arm for the pickoff/throwing runners out he’s always been, regardless if he has another offensive season like last year or not.
Not to mention being that sure, steady, guy to handle all the young pitchers in the wings, also including garcia
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I actually expect Yadi to be signed before the season starts.
Bookmark this page, Matty!
by mattyfrommo on Feb 11, 2012 11:10 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
This can't be done, I don't think.
What about Cruz/Anderson alternating 2 week stretches in Memphis and St. Louis learning from Yadi and Matheny for the season?
They would use up too many options, as I understand it. You can’t send a guy down that many times.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Options are good for the year
You can ride the shuttle all year long if you have an option left.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I see. Huh.
I guess that makes sense.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
It can be done, it just won't be (I can't ever remember something like this being done), and I don't see why it'd be a good idea anyway.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Why?
They’d get a solid two weeks of playing time in the minors (spelled every 4th to 5th day by whomever is the minor league backup) and then would get two weeks of “learning time” with the major league team, probably playing once every 5th day – 2 to 3 times while in the majors in each call up.)
See how all those years with LaRussa as your manager
makes the far-out concepts seem practical ?
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Feb 11, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
If I'm one of those
guys and you follow that plan, I’m not thinking about all the great PT and “learning time” I’m getting, I’m thinking about how much I hate getting jerked around like a piece of meat.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 11, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Making 5 times the money?
Fine, make it less often on the shuttle, then? I dunno. I’d want both of them to work with Molina and Matheny rather than signing a veteran backup to put up worse numbers.
a prima donna like Rasmus would think like that...
I think the opportunity to spend some time in the show would make most non-prospects giddy, whether it’s a week, or a month, or half-time.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
BP up with Cards prospects
The Big O makes he list of five star prospects. Number 2 behind Shelby. Seems like there can’t be any discussion of him unless it contains the phrase “violent swing”.
Goldstein still hates Cox but loves Wong.
Seems to think Adams will be our 1b next year.
In the comments section he indicates that most scouts who have seen Serrano put him in the Top 20 of the farm system as he comes in, so that is encouraging.
Just win
I'll have to check this out.
The five-star rating for Taveras is interesting. I’m not interested in scouting reports on Taveras and how the “violent swing” description evolved. I suspect Law and Goldstein have seen Taveras live, so it isn’t a case of a baseless internet echo.
The Serrano signing is good news. I was reading it and thinking to myself that it seems we have yet another pitching prospect to be enthusiastic about. Not that pitching prospects actually exist or anything. I mean, I’m a grownup and I know they don’t. I’m just saying that, if they did exist…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Our pitching costs are going to flip-flop
It will be 2014, and all of a sudden, we will have a staff that costs $10M as opposed to $50M.
I'm exaggerating of course
But if Miller, Martinez, Jenkins, Garcia, and this guy were all pitching, it would be interesting (and disturbing).
I recognize the exaggeration.
If Wainwright is extended, he and Garcia will very likely cost over $20MM combined.
You’re right. On top of those listed, the Cardinals also have Cleto (who is one of the most interesting pitchers in the system, IMO), Swagerty, and Rosenthal as well as Kelly and Whiting. Obviously, the timetables of arrival for all of these pitchers isn’t necessarily 2014, but they’re all pretty close.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think it is pretty fair to say
Rosenthal is the most under rated guy in our system. A couple years ago he would of been our best pitching prospect.
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
KG lives DeKalb I think (though I may have inadvertently made that up)
Either way, he frequently attends Kane County Cougars games in the MWL, so he says the QC River Bandits fairly often. So yea, he has seen Taveras most probably.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Fangraphs+? Yay or nay?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
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Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 11, 2012 9:51 AM EST reply actions
I believe he said
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Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 11, 2012 10:18 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
People will come, Ray
people will most definately come
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 11, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Largo al baseballum della città.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
the biggest catcher story to watch for in ST
is not the competition between Cruz and Anderson but whether the Cards agree with Molina on an extension
Nevermind Roy Oswalt, for a moment...
Doesn’t it still make sense for the Cardinals to try to get Jake Westbrook out of the rotation in favor of Lance Lynn? I think most people still view his long term future as a quality #3-4 starting pitcher. Shelby Miller will almost certainly be in the starting rotation in 2013, so doesn’t it make sense to get Lance Lynn in the rotation now, instead of trying to introduce 2 young guys to the rotation at once in ‘13? Even if Lynn flopped as a starter we could still turn to Rzep to take his spot in the rotation now that we have some sort of LOOGY depth (Swindle, Gast, Freeman). If it turns out that both Lynn and Rzep can’t hack it as starters then we bring up Shelby and go into 2013 with a better understanding of whether or not we need to bring in a free agent starter.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 10:41 AM EST reply actions
That's why we signed McClellan
so he can step in if needed. I’d rather see Lynn as well, but McClellan is 6th guy. If someone goes down for the season then you might see Dickson or even Miller, but I haven’t heard a peep about Lynn training for a starting spot.
Having said that, I agree if we aren’t signing Oswalt, I’d like to see Lynn in rotation and Westy in bullpen
Just win
If that's why we signed K-Mac, then I dislike the signing even more.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
The Only plausible reason to sign KMac is to use him as starter depth.
The signing makes no sense, if it made any at all, if the thought is to never again use him as a starter.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I still think he's a goner before the season starts
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
to trade him for prospects?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
well...i wouldn't call it "prospects", but "crappy minor leaguer(s)" would be a fair bet
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
how about some diamonds in the rough, who will develop/reveal their true potential as 5 tool CF, SS, and C's then
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
ok,
K-Mac to Cincinatti for Daryl Jones it is then.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Winnar
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
or as a right handed loogy
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
If McClellan starts the season in the bullpen, I doubt he will make many starts.
The Cardinals are much more likely to call starters up from Memphis. They are conditioned to starts and are on a starter’s timetable. Calling starters up from Memphis has been the Cardinals’ practice for years.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
In addition it would clarify the 2013 bullpen situation as well.
As it stands the ’13 staff could be one of the following groups:
Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia, Lynn, Miller
Motte, Sanchez, Salas, Swagerty, Rzep, Gast, Boggs/Cleto/Reifer/Kelly/FA righty
Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia, Miller, FA starter
Motte, Sanchez, Salas, Swagerty, Rzep, Gast, Lynn
Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia, Rzep, Miller
Motte, Sanchez, Salas, Swagerty, Gast, Lynn, Swindle/Freeman/FA lefty
(Don’t you like how I assume Swagerty & Gast are locks for ’13 pen and that K-Mac & Romero are certainly out?)
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think simply listing guys who throw lefthanded constitutes LOOGY depth, or, more accurately, LH relief depth.
Swindle, Freeman and Gast are not projected or expected to be good at all this year.
I also don’t understand the concern about introducing two “young” guys into the rotation at the same time. Why would this matter if they’re the two best guys? And at that point Lynn will have pitched in the majors for two years, so I wouldn’t consider him to be inexperienced anyway.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Because you don't really know if Lynn is the best guy.
If you can find out this season that he is not, then you know that you have to sign a free agent starter.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Well, I don't think Lynn should be in the rotation this year anyway.
If you want “test” him further against ML hitting, I say do it out of the bullpen. Lynn is more of an asset in the bullpen this year than as a starter, IMO.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
i suspect starting in memephis
would be best for him
and maybe why we got linebrink
this may be/mean kmac is more on the block than before
12 in 12, thank you very much
If Lynn is in Memphis (which I think is very bad idea)
Then I really am starting to worry about our bullpen.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, no reason for Lynn to be in Memphis.
If K-Mac isn’t traded and considering Lynn almost certainly won’t be in the rotation or the minors…that leaves 1 spot for Sanchez, Boggs, and Linebrink. Unless there is still serious concern about Eduardo’s shoulder, I don’t see how he can be left off the roster. The only solution I see is that K-Mac or Boggs is gone before the season. I’m confident that it’ll be K-Mac. And oddly, I do believe the Cardinals will still get Oswalt at $7.5 million.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know...
We can pretty much count on 175-185 not very good innings from Westbrook. I’d rather just see what Lynn, Rzep, and Miller could do. One of them is bound to be a slight improvement. I’d rather get 175 good innings from Lynn rather than 70 great innings from him. Overall, it may be a somewhat lateral move, but I don’t think it hurts the team at all and gives you a better idea of what needs to be done with the Lohse, Westbrook, Berkman, and Molina money in the offseason.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
This is all based on me not having a problem with bringing Shelby
up in June or July if it doesn’t work.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Let the souffle rise
Shelby is a September call-up. He joins the rotation next year. No need to rush this thing.
If Shelby is destroying AAA and one of our starters is struggling or hurt..
why would you not call him up? Plenty of pitchers have debuted at 21 and didn’t disappoint.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
TISATAAPPATAVMOT, and Shelby Miller is one.
(there is such a thing as a pitching prospect although there aren’t very many of them)
You're going to have to defend that
According to ZIPS, if you give them both 150 innings, Lynn projects to be a .7 WAR upgrade in the rotation.
I highly doubt Lynn is .7 WAR better than Westy in the pen. Assuming Westy is league average there, Lynn would have to be like a 3.20 ERA pitcher and have pretty high leverage. Lynn’s about as good as Motte, Salas, Sanchez and Rzep IMO, so I’d rather use him in the rotation.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Why would Westbrook be league average in the pen?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Don't starters typically see their ERA drop by about 0.50 when shifting from the rotation to bullpen?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
even more
.8-1 runs.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see any reason to ignore Lynn's increased velocity in the bullpen
And the likelihood that his stuff plays up in the pen, while Westbrook doesn’t see an analogous bump because he’ll be throwing the same sinker he always throws.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think average is pessimistic, to be honest
he’s probably around a league average starter, he should be expected to above average in the pen.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
You're using ZiPS, so you expect
Westbrook to get at least a 25 point bump in his ERA+, from 83 to at least 108? Yeah, I don’t think so.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
That's a 25% decrease
So, from 4.45 to 3.60. That’s about what you’d expect, on average, for a starter moving to the pen:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/starter_v_relief_1953_2008/
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I understand the point. I'm disagreeing that Westbrook is going to improve that much moving to the pen.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
We're quibbling over a small amount here
We both agree that Westbrook is fairly close to the average pitcher in terms of quality of stuff, command, etc. So when moving to the pen his improvement is going to be somewhere around that of an average pitcher.
We’re talking a .6 to 1 run per 9 range. Either way, it’s more valuable if Lynn is in the rotation – he’ll be pitching at least twice the amount of innings there, which is way more than the slight differences between the two in rotation/bullpen transition. .
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
I agree about the general point about starters moving to relief
What I’m saying is that based on these individual pitchers, Westbrook and Lynn, I think we can do better than applying the general rule and calling it a day. I don’t think Westbrook is going to get much of a bump by pitching in relief, because he’s basically a one pitch pitcher, induces a lot of contact, and his K rate is low. Lynn on the other hand appears to get a significant velocity bump pitching out of the pen, and his K rate goes up there.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 12, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
ZiPS doesn’t see quite that big an improvement as a reliever, but it has him improving to a 4.06 ERA, 99 ERA+ as a reliever.
by D.Szymborski on Feb 12, 2012 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
I'm okay with listing anyone who throws left-handed as LOOGY depth,
considering what I watched last season from Tallett and Miller. This is poor logic, but I don’t think they’d kill the team. LOOGY is the most overrated role in the major leagues. I don’t understand why teams insist on carrying 2. I’d much rather have another power arm in the pen, but if teams insist on having lefty junkballers, then I’ll continue to insult the role with suggesting that Freeman could handle it.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's true that team's insist on carrying two LOOGYs.
And all LH relievers are not LOOGYs anyway.
Also, Freeman isn’t very good. Actually, though tom poo-poos Nick Greenwood in the OP, he was far more effective against LHB last year than Freeman or Gast. Indeed, Greenwood’s splits suggest that he might be a very effective LOOGY (e.g. 2.38 FIP, .446 OPS against LHB, mainly in the Springfield launching pad)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
where are you finding his 2011 platoon splits?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 1:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Might be Minor League Central?
Can’t remember who it was (maybe XeiFrank or Szymborski or another Friend of VEB) that alerted me to this site but I think it pretty much picks up where Minor League Splits left off:
http://minorleaguecentral.com/
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
More specifically, Nick Greenwood's splits page:
http://minorleaguecentral.com/player.php?pid=572889&split=3000
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Thanks Mattybobo
I didn’t know about this site either, but it’s pretty cool and that’s coming from an old guy.
are you calling bobo and old guy?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
Well, I am well past the point of being a Quarter-Centurion.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
where bobo said...
it’s a pretty cool site actually
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 3:22 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah, I wish it were selectable on that Baseball Player Search app
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
those are surprising splits. in 2010, he was
Actually worse against LHB than RHB. Did he add a different pitch that changed his approach to LHB?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 3:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Tough to say.
In 2010, he was a starter in SD’s system, for the most part. When he came to the Cards, he transitioned to relief, and was pretty successful in a small sample (2.99 FIP in 23 innings).
My guess ( and it’s a complete guess) is that his stuff plays up out of the pen, and he may have subtracted pitches, and gone to a fastball/slider combo (the combo usually favored by LOOGYs).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'm looking into it
only week I could go though is March 5-10, and their only home game during that stretch is the red sox on the 8th. I’d have to see where those other teams play, and whether it would be close enough to catch some of those as well. I definitely need a break from the cold though.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
but just found out I can get to Florida and back on free flights
hmmmm…..this might have to happen
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
Free flight? You're already there.
Sleep on the beach and live on oranges.
The Mets complex at Port St. Lucie isn’t far. And the Marlins will probably have some games in Jupiter when the Cards are on the road.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 11, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
best way to go is to go to tampa/clearwater, lots of teams
joker marchant is a nice place to go (tigers)
cards have games in orlando too
braves and asstros
finding tix for card games against the better teams is already moved to stubhub
i’ll hit kissemee (easy tix) and maybe lakeland
12 in 12, thank you very much
Agree
I live in Tampa. Here’s a schedule of weekend games if anyone does a 3-day weekend type thing. The weekend of the 17th would be a perfect 5 day vaca with the team close to Disney back to back days and Lakeland about 40 minutes on I-4 for Saturday’s game. Plus Lakeland is a fun spot for a baseball game. Three games in 4 days and use Sunday to soak up Disney/Universal/SeaWorld/Other Parks:
March 10 & 11 Washington and Miami @ Palm Beach (OMG! BRYCE HARPER)
March 17 @ Detroit (Lakeland)
March 18 @ Miami (Palm Beach)
March 19 @ Atlanta (Disney Wide World of Sports)
March 20 @ Houston (Kissimmee, 15 minutes from Disney)
Friday, March 23 Miami @ Palm Beach
March 24 @ Mets (Port St. Lucie)
March 25 Minnesota @ Palm Beach
March 31 @ WAS (Melbourne, roughly 1 hour from Orlando/Disney)
April 1 Washington @ Palm Beach
by The Gottfather on Feb 13, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
I'll be in Pheonix
for the last weekend of it. Too bad I dislike all of the teams there, but hey, baseball.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'll be there.
1 week. Can’t wait.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 11, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I'll be there the 17th-24th
four stadiums in 4 days, then a nice homestand, then up to see the Mets.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
I havent heard anything specific on how Craig's rehab is going,
But if it going according to schedule, he’ll be running by the end of the month/early march (3.5 months since surgery). This puts him on schedule for A mid to late April return
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 11, 2012 10:51 AM EST via mobile reply actions
if he comes out of this healthy this season what are the chances that he has a successful non-injury plagued career?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Ummm...that question is impossible to answer
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 11, 2012 10:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sure about that?
adam wainwright, who apparently is in . . . wait for it . . . the best shape of his life
I believe he’s actually feeling “danged good.”
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I'm paraphrasing all the articles gushing about
His condition. If you’re a BSOHL purist, you can wait for the actual statement.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 1:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know.
I just like the phrase “danged good.”
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
OT: Hey, all you safety-razor shavers.
I’ve settled on my blade of choice. If anyone wants my 20 or so random unused blades remaining in my variety pack, let me know and I’ll ship them to you for free.
What did you choose?
Have you tried feather blades. Dull quickly, but unbelievably sharp and smooth.
Gillette 7 O'Clock Super Platinum Dark Blues (the Russian ones, not the Indian)
They are not the closest shaving blades, but they’re incredibly comfortable for me and they lasted like 6 shaves.
I liked the feather quite a lot. Those were much closer, but I didn’t find them to be as comfortable, and they dulled by my third shave. They were probably my third choice. Second was Astra platinums.
Agree on 7 o'clock
Also like BlueBirds.
Never got the hype on Feathers, though. I think it may be my face type/shave style.
Also, Releasing Chris Carpenter would be a good name for a movie about transactions. It would sound like an arthouse flick, and that way you could con your significant other into seeing it. Surprise! The protagonist is Dave Duncan, and he spits a lot.
by fightin'_eyerash on Feb 11, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
I think I understand the hype on the Feathers.
The closest shave I’ve had so far was with a feather, but I had to be super, super careful with both my lathering and my shaving. It just wasn’t worth it for me, not when I can shave with a Gillette dark blue while daydreaming and get a perfectly nice (and much cheaper) shave.
Bluebirds and Derby were nice too, I think.
I'll take em.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Thanks
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
What kind of razor do you use?
You get a good brush yet?
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not happy with the brush I got.
The thing sheds horribly every time I soap it up.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I like the badger hair, just not the cheap construction.
In six more months, I’ll be down to just a couple of bristles.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
probably
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Josh has had his for 8 years.
From Art of Shaving
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 11, 2012 8:52 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
For GDM, who was asking ihb for limericks on twitter yesterday. I hope this is just as good.
There once was a man named Roy Oswalt,
Who asked Mo to open the team vault.
So the vault, Mo looked in,
But found just McClellan.
He said, “Well, I guess this is my fault.”
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 11:55 AM EST reply actions 13 recs
Nice
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 11, 2012 12:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
yeah, it sucked when oswalt signed with that other team
by prophetjohn on Feb 11, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
See, this is all according to Mo's plan
He wants people to think he’s not controlling this process. So then, when we do sign Oswalt, it will be “wow, those lucky Cardinals managed to sign Oswalt, must have been the perfect storm of circumstances yet again!” And they’ll continue to keep their guard down.
The greatest trick Mozeliak ever pulled was convincing the world he wasn’t Keyser Soze.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
If Mo somehow managed to get Oswalt for $5 million and trade Westy,
I’d …I’d….well, I don’t know what I’d do, but it would be awesome.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Better not to give 4th-5th starters NTC's, of course.
If we sign Oswalt (and I hope we do) it will be mainly despite Mo’s efforts.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
i don't know if that's the case or not
but what i do know is that roy oswalt is a free agent. nothing has prevented the cardinals from signing him until he signs elsewhere or announces he’s not playing this season
by prophetjohn on Feb 11, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I also don’t particularly care for the McClellan signing, nor the Schumaker signing for that matter. And there might be a connection of some sort between signings like that and a possible future timeline where we definitely do not sign Roy Oswalt. But if hypothetical outcomes are allowed into the analysis then I submit my own, in which we do sign Oswalt, he goes on to be co-winner of the Cy Young award along with Adam Wainwright, the Cardinals win 103 games, and we dismantle the Yankees in the World Series 4 games to 1. Conclusion: Mozeliak is a genius and totally awesome.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Oswalt surrendered his leverage
I don’t mean to be cruel or anything, but its the same thing that happened to Prince Fielder.
Oswalt waited too long this winter to find a roster spot. Is he a good pitcher? Of course. But when you limit yourself to 2-3 teams, and you demand a certain salary level, than you’re asking for trouble. That’s why the Cards are trying to move people like Westbrook and the Phillies were fighting to get rid of Blanton. Teams like Roy, but its too late in the game.
Yeah, it's not really cruel, I think that's a reasonable look at the situation
Furthermore I expect players are largely aware of business factors like this. Or they ought to be, seeing as how they constantly say things like “it’s a business” during interviews. If they truly understand the weird market nature of it they should theoretically also understand that market forces can work for or against you.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Everything seemed to work out just fine for Prince though.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
but then it's irrelevant since fielder and oswalt are radically different sets of circumstances
by prophetjohn on Feb 11, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Of course.
Just pointing out how Prince got bailed out by that one owner losing his head. Guess I prefer this drawn out waiting game to that.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Let's be very clear
There is an old Greek expression that describes Prince’s situation:
Deus ex machina
Prince ESCAPED what was going to be a very bad situation for him.
I think we should be clear that we really have little idea of what Prince's situation was.
For all we know, he had been sitting on a 185mm offer from Ted Lerner for a month when he signed.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 11, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Just a limerick man, not an actual complaint.
Obviously Mo very much could still sign Oswalt, the limerick is just for fun.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I read it as a thinly veiled statement on the current political climate
and America’s obsession with SUVs.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 11, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I blame the internet. And the return of violent swing music.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Feb 11, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Goodman, Miller, Ellington, Basie...
All ne’er-do-wells whose influence I thought had been eliminated.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Ah, much like "The Tale of Scrotie McBoogerballs".
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
It's either us or Boston
Just have to let it play out. I would personally just give Oswalt the extra 2 million and try to trade KMac later.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
On MLBN right now
Aussie Baseball Championship – Melbourne v Perth
I never knew that they ran the bases clockwise Down Under.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Feb 11, 2012 1:06 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Baseball!
With an accent!
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 11, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Gonna put my money on Perth, FWIW.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 11, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Radar gun in km/h
127 km/h = 79 mph
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Wait...this is a joke right?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
It's an official MLB winter league!
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 11, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
(Spoiler alert: This link will tell you how the game ends.)
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I knew that, I was talking about the run to third fist thing.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I know.
(Yes, is joke.)
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Perth scores in the 5th
Double, SAC, Sac Fly.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
2-0
Double, single.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Melbourne ties in the 6th.
Single, Single, SAC, Single.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
WOW
Line drive back off the pitcher’s shoulder, redirected in the air to SS for the lineout, and then tag the runner from 1B for the typical 1-6 double play.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Extra innings...2-2
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
To the 13th...
Perth is only on their 3rd pitcher of the game. Melbourne has only used 4 so far.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
OH MY MELBOURNE!
Single, SAC, Single to take a 3-2 lead.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
And the Aces hang on in the bottom of the 13th
to win and send the series to Game 3 on Sunday.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Bubbie Buzachero
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I think it's time for ABL to step in and break up the Perth Heat
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Amusing...
Will Leitch @williamfleitch · Open
@joestrauss Just a perfect spring primer this morning. You and @dgoold are already destroying it, and spring training isn’t even here yet.
8m Joe Strauss @JoeStrauss · Open
@williamfleitch What has @dgoold done?
5m Will Leitch @williamfleitch · Open
@JoeStrauss @dgoold That’s what I get for complimenting! (Seriously, though, thanks, both of you.)
Derrick Goold @dgoold Close
@williamfleitch thanks. And I wish I was surprised by the reaction. Classy.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Good to see that they're in midseason form.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
joe strauss poops on derrick goold.
Sun rises in east.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 4:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Give him the Scott Farkus treatment, Derrick
dgoold Derrick Goold
@
@JoeStrauss oh, front page story, a few blogs, interviews for series of stories next week. You know, the usual. Thanks for noticing.
dgoold Derrick Goold
@
@2xAught7 creeping apathy.
1 hour ago
@2xAught7 argue would imply an exchange. It’s clear how my work is perceived. Disappointing. #twitterbully
by Merry CRasmus on Feb 11, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
i don't understand strauss...
he’s supposed to be on goold’s team!
give me arabica or give me death -- spants
Numbers (possible nexdef)
@RAFAEL_FURCAL
#15 will be worn by ME this season… Thank U to Beltran for righteously taking 3!
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
So, Holliday is #5
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 11, 2012 3:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I like Holliday as #7
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
see
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Thalt was meant to have a question mark because I was wondering if he went back to 5 like in Colorado
Since Albert’s gone and the numbers are being chosen, but he probably will stay 7 and this tweet may be the only insight so far anyway
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 11, 2012 4:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
new players agreement forces players to buy out any stock with their old number produced by a certain date
plus it would aggravate the loss of pujols sitiation. and he’s been 7 for 3 years already as a cardinal
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 11, 2012 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
on the side of the FanPost editor
there’s a bold header saying “Media and Assets”. Click on the TV looking thing.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Got a link or an example link
I can mess with the source if you like
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks!
Your browser does not support iframes.
from here:
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=13576927&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_13576927&v=3
When I put it in, I can see it in the editing dashboard, but it disappears when I post.
This is the html it gives me
iframe src=‘http://mlb.mlb.com/shared/video/embed/embed.html?content_id=13576927&width=400&height=224&property=mlb’ width=‘400’ height=‘224’ frameborder=’0’>Your browser does not support iframes.</iframe
With brackets around it, of course.
Shit, it won't let me post the source
Shoot me an e-mail real quick at FlimtotheFlam at g mai l dot com
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yea or nay on Shelby starting the season off in the rotation?
According to ZIPS, he projects to be our 4th best starter. And ZIPS doesn’t take into account his tremendous stuff, it’s just basing its projection off of his stats. He’s only 21, so I would normally agree with those who say he should get a little more seasoning in the minors; however, he’s also a pitcher, so we’re kind of racing against the injury clock here.
I say hold an open competition for the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation and just let whoever pitches the best in.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
Nay. Let him start at AAA and if he is blowing guys away, then call him up
No reason to start the arbitration clock yet, or give him a shot at Super 2 status. (assuming I correctly understand how those things work)
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
good point about arbitration
but, as with many hard throwing pitchers, his best years could very well be age 21-26 or so. The question you have to ask is is 21 year old Shelby better than 27 year old Shelby? Which season would you rather hve?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
but the longer you wait, the more likely he is to be injured
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
What are the odds that he gets hurt in a way that impacts his ability to pitch after recovery?
Because if the injury is TJ surgery, and he makes a full recovery (fairly common), then it only matters if he gets hurt at the end of his team controlled seasons. If he gets hurt at age 24, and makes a full recovery, then it makes no difference if the team waits a couple of months.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
no, but if he gets injured at age 27, then it does hurt the Cardinals
We’d need to actually put out some injury estimates and compare it with projections.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Better to get injured in Memphis than Saint Louis
Or something like Garcia happens. Where the guy gets hurt in his brief stay in Saint Louis. Than loses an entire year of eligibility.
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
good point as well
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather have his 21 season in that either/or
If the choice framed would I rather have his 22-26 season after another year perfecting the changeup or his 22-26 season after a year of him relying on his fastball to get by in the majors, I’ll take the former
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
I don't he'll perfect his changeup in the minors, nor rely completely on his fastball in the majors
So that’s somewhat of a false choice.
We need to actually quantify, or at least attempt to quantify the injury risk, improvement from being down in the minors, age related skill. Who wants to volunteer?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
good god!
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
I definitely wouldn't start him in St. Louis...
you’d be giving away his services for the entire 2018 season.
Sign Roy O
That's assuming you don't just sign him to a team friendly long term deal in season 3 or 4
But I agree, I’d let him start in AAA and if he’s dominating after 6-10 starts, I’d start getting eager to bring him up.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
There's still leverage in owning that other year.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Why the hell do people keep suggesting that #5 is available for other players to wear?
It’s not happening folks. Get over it.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 5:24 PM EST reply actions
15 is available for some reason (grumble grumble)
But yea, I don’t think they’ll have anyone wear 5.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
This reason
Also we aren’t retiring #5 for half a career
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 11, 2012 7:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
maybe not this year, but it should be up for grabs in the future
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Let em wear 5
15 is available, and Edmonds wasn’t a dick to us
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 11, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Ken Boyer got his number retired for 11 lesser seasons.
Enos Slaughter got his # retired and he did less in more years with the Birds. Dizzy Dean only pitched 6 seasons with us. Bruce Sutter only 4. If these guys have their numbers retired, then Albert should have his retired. He’s a top 3 Cardinal of all-time along with Musial and Gibson and anyone who denies this just needs to wipe the snot from their noses and accept reality. Albert wasn’t a dick to us at all, he was just trying to get the biggest deal he could and he got. Just the same as almost every professional athlete does. Quit crying.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 11, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
I mostly agree with this
The stuff at the end gets a little subjective so I won’t really stake a claim on that one way or another.
Also, the fact that Jimmy’s number is so readily available is kind of a travesty. It’s a terrible argument for allowing 5 to be available too. Something about wrongs > 1 /= a right.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
he was a pretty big dick
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Wasn't Slaughter a big racist?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
i don't know, i don't like to point the racist finger
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
yeah, supposedly him and hornsby were from what I've heard here and there
but unfortunately, it was much more common back then
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 11, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still rockin' my M&N #9 with pride
cultural relativity folks.
by openside on Feb 11, 2012 10:22 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
if Albert's # doesn't get retired it will make the whole "number retiring" process look rather silly
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 11, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
how so? he's gone & turned his back on the entire franchise & fan base
his number doesn’t deserve to be retired
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Um...his contract ran out and he left.
While here he did ridiculously great things.
Yeah it sucks how he left, but you’re being an idiot about this.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
you're face is an idiot
let me feel my feelings!
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
uh
no
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 11, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
he was here for eleven freakin years man!!
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 11, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't mean for that to sound that freaked out
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 11, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, and he still left, those 11 years meant nothing to him
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
or to the cardinals org
apparently. oh cmon, meant nothing? you’re being melodramatic
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 11, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
yeah probably, sometimes i just get really angry about the whole thing
i mean, i know all athletes lie, but i just didn’t believe he was like all athletes
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
I'm sure he was conflicted about the decision
and remember, very few if any players remain on the same team their whole career.
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 12, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
except he could have
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
that's what gets me, he could have been the greatest Cardinal ever
but he didn’t want to be & i just don’t understand that. i’d give anything to play just one inning or have one at bat wearing the BOB’s. Albert had the freaking dream to end all dreams & walked away because of something so petty as money. i’m not sorry for being hurt & upset sometimes about that
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Second best Cardinal ever (maybe third behind Hornsby)
I don’t think you realize just how great Stan was
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 12, 2012 12:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He didn't grow up a Cards fan like you and I, though
You and I would give anything to play an inning for our team…he played 11 years and found 236,000,000 reasons to go elsewhere.
How is leaving for way more $$ than the Cards could offer
“turn[ing] his back on the entire franchise & fan base”? Some of how it went down was a little ugly, but what do you want from him? He’s a no-doubt HoFer who’ll go in as a Cardinal barring a miracle in Anaheim – I can’t see any reason why his number shouldn’t be retired (if not now, then when he goes into the HoF).
by BTown Birds fan on Feb 11, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't mean to pile on, gdm
I didn’t see the several posts before until I posted.
by BTown Birds fan on Feb 11, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
I think that the fault lies in both camps
but that he was here long enough to warrant his number being retired, considering two of his comparables are babe ruth and reggie jackson (just to use the world series game example)
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 11, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Well...
there’s clearly some animosity between the team and the player. Unless that changes maybe it’s best not to have any further relationship or honorifics.
Sign Roy O
I don't have any problem with waiting until he's retired to retire #5,
when (hopefully most of) that animosity would be gone. In fact I thought that was the regular way to do it, although maybe I’m off on that. But I thought gdm was saying that it shouldn’t be retired at all, which I don’t agree with at all.
by BTown Birds fan on Feb 11, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I don't really know how that would work
I guess the post-playing part of that contract complicates it….
by BTown Birds fan on Feb 11, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Still, he'll go in to the HoF as a Cardinal barring a miracle, right?
Surely they could do a # retiring ceremony even for an Angels exec…?
by BTown Birds fan on Feb 11, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
Is Pujol ever...
Even coming back to St. Louis? Other than for road games in interleague?
For the rest of history, he’s going to be an Angel. He’s not coming back to sign autographs, make appearances, etc, etc, etc.
You should only retire players who have some sort of connection with the team that is more than just the past (exception being Darryl Kile, of course)
i feel the same way, he's gone & never coming back
we should just move on & forget about him
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
i'm not happy about the way he lead us on but his number will be retired eventually
hopefully post HOF, not before.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
there's no way it happens in the next 20 years
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
make it 30 and we're settled then
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
deal
i can see him pulling a mea cupla in about 25 years crawling back & begging the Cardinals & fans for forgiveness
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
never shall it be
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
acquiescence but never forgiveness
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
we can forgive, but we will never forget
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
I'll never forget and i'm don't know if i'll ever forgive
really i’m not sure he’ll forgive himself in his heart of hearts in 30 years time
he could have been a contender
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
now see where back to one of my original points
he’s not who he’s always said he was. i don’t think he regrets this one bit nor do i think he ever will. he has always wanted the most money & he always knew STL couldn’t afford to do that. he’s been waiting & preparing to leave for probably 5 years, all the while saying every time a camera or mic was in his face he would never leave over money.
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
such a shame ... what could have been
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:23 AM EST up reply actions
i wanted him to not be a fake & a fraund & to at least appreciate the fans a little bit
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
by gdm426 on Feb 11, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the fact that he signed a much larger deal with Anaheim
doesn’t mean he was a fraud and doesn’t mean he didn’t appreciate the fans.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 2:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
since he's gone the stories are starting to come out he's not a very good person
being a jerk to fans when there’s no cameras around, treating people like crap, being a diva & throwing a fit when things don’t go his way. yelling at teammates & the media after bad games. the STL media suddenly has balls & isn’t protecting his rep he’s a good Christian guy anymore. just wait, i’m sure a lot of the skeletons will come out.
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
this isn't the only way to read the situation
on the other side, demand for stories painting pujols as a douchebag has gone way up, regardless of the actual supply available.
or the stl media just would not publish them while he was in town?
but the other side of this is definitely valid possibility also
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:30 AM EST up reply actions
nah, there were always plenty of vultures.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
pubishling negativity about pujols would have a been poison for your career when he was here
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree
if you’re an individual writer without clubhouse access in st. louis you have every incentive to be “controversial” in a scenario like this.
TLR would have had anyone who dared sully Albert's rep run out of town
and so would the team. Albert was the untouchable holy grail cash cow for the entire organization. there is no way they would have let anything bad be reported without going after the reporter with everything legal & not so legal to shut him up & make him or her to be the bad guy
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
really?
and no one did it? He must be a saint then.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
I have no way of knowing, but I don't believe somebody with a little more access than me, say,
had anything to lose by running pujols stories if they heard them. that generates way more page views than being somebody else who says he’s a great guy.
I'll defer to you being much more of an insider than i obviously, but how many negative articles are
there about any active players, or past players, much less the face of the franchise? point being how far would you get in this town being down on local hero’s much less the face of the franchise?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:11 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not an insider at all, for what it's worth
I don’t know anything and I don’t think there’s really any value to being an insider when it comes to covering sports.
Dan, didn't and don't mean to be adversarial to you ... just doesn't seem likely
that writers would last long in this town being down on local baseball hereo’s unless there are pictures
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:23 AM EST up reply actions
oh, you don't come off as adversarial at all
I just think there’s always going to be a market for sports douchebags, or else colin cowherd wouldn’t make 50 times what I do.
that is actually a real name! i'm really not plugged in at all
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:37 AM EST up reply actions
when i first saw that name and douchebags in your
response, i thought “what is he calling me!”
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:43 AM EST up reply actions
true, but it's not like there's a flood of stories coming out
i’ve only heard a few about him & one was from strauss so you have to take it with a grain of salt. i’m just saying there are more coming & they are going to be from more reliable sources. he has always been protected in St. Louis. well he’s gone & so is that protection.
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
in this case I don't understand your position, then
you’ve heard only a few stories, therefore there are more stories, therefore he’s been protected this whole time and he’s not a good christian guy?
all the evidence has suggested his whole career that he’s a guy who’s done great things for people out of a real sense of charity and is also a very prickly, respect-driven athlete. nothing I’ve heard before or since, and nothing he did during the contract negotiations, has led me to believe anything else.
i've heard five or six stories
a couple where he cussed out teammates & reporters.a couple where he’s been out drinking & gambling & having women who aren’t his wife hanging all over him. and a couple where he yelled at kids in store parking lots. and i guess i’m making a presumption more will come out over time chipping away at his reputation.
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
and I, along with everybody else on any cardinals message board, heard a bunch of very specific stories circa 2002 about jim edmonds
hanging out around town with his long-term boyfriend.
only you can decide what to believe, but I’m skeptical about all these stories precisely because they’re only coming out now, when everybody wants to believe albert pujols is a dick and we’re better off.
i guess it is easier to believe them now that he's pissed us off
i don’t think any of the stories are as black & white as we might want to believe.
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
I have a second hand negative story about Pujols I've chosen not share
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
email it to me?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
oh it's not that juicy
he refused to sign for some of the guys I played baseball with in JUCO and wasn’t polite about it. . .
sorry if it sounded like I had something juicy
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
no one is good at all the time and no one is bad all the time
that includes Stan Musial.
As I see it, Pujols has never done anything so bad as to negate the fact that he had one of the 5 best first halves of a career of all time and led the Cardinals to two WS.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 2:26 AM EST up reply actions
what are you saying about stan musial?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sure there are times in his life where he's acted like a dick
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
when?, stories would have come out by now
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:30 AM EST up reply actions
you are dead wrong about Stan
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
this doesn't seem like a controversial position to me
“nobody’s a saint 100% of the time” doesn’t mean stan musial wasn’t a great guy.
so what is the point then? quite a difference between not being a saint 100%
and Pujols
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:34 AM EST up reply actions
you'd have to define what you mean by dick and great guy
you’d have to take into account the sum of all interactions. Give positive points for being nice, negative points for being a dick. And first you have to define what “nice” is.
My point is that Pujols was likely nice most of the time, and the things that he did which were dicky don’t seem so bad to me.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 2:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well we don't interact with either of them but didn't stan get voted by the
the players as being basically “the nicest guy in baseball?” and didn’t pujols not fair so well? would have said made the “most disliked or over rated” but i can’t quite remember.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:43 AM EST up reply actions
I think pujols was in an incredibly difficult situation
and I don’t blame him for the decision he made. if sb nation were as beloved an employer as any baseball team and I felt they were disrespecting me by underpaying me, I’d go to ESPN and I’d have to deal with it.
stan musial never had the chance to make that decision, and I don’t think any of us knows how he’d make it.
by DanUpBaby on Feb 12, 2012 2:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he was offered much more money to play for the new league in mexico
and didn’t
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
Proof that no one actually reads sigs, at VEB.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
by SleepyCA on Feb 12, 2012 3:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well that's mexico
completely different situation than staying within major league baseball.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 3:09 AM EST up reply actions
In what way?
Money is money. It all spends the same.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
I think staying in the country (and the established majors) as well as within a league that's not likely to collapse and leave you without a job
is all pretty valuable. I doubt pujols would have joined the angels if they were the equivalent of a USFL franchise.
by DanUpBaby on Feb 12, 2012 3:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no one knew how that was going to turn out. especially
if they had got stan to go, and then a few others … they were recruiting pretty heavily to get some names. if he had gone, who knows
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 AM EST up reply actions
conceded. however baseball players were at the mercy of teams
back then and that was a payday, with the very great potential for more to come. no free agency/one year contracts back then. career ending injury and you are done.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:26 AM EST up reply actions
Musial was making 13.5K per year, for the Cardinals
On one-year deals, singed each year. He gets hurt, he gets nothing, the next year, if the team so decides.
Pasqual offered Musial a $50K signing bonus, plus a guaranteed $125K, to leave. Roughly 13 annual salaries, guaranteed, and he could have still signed for more after just 5 years. And Stan basically told them to fuck off. That action accepted WAY more risk that what Pujols would have accepted, agreeing to a 10 year, whatever $M contract with STL, vs a 10 year, whatever plus a couple $M with LAA, especially given where they were in their respective careers; Pujols was already incredibly wealthy, when he made his decision. Stan was 25, and made the choice not to become instantly wealthy, in order to stay in STL.
6 will always be greater than 5.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
by SleepyCA on Feb 12, 2012 3:34 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
in that case, I change my answer
to “stan musial is insane, or else hated the thought of living in mexico more than I could even imagine.”
c'mon
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:39 AM EST up reply actions
if that's the worldview you want to accept, and propogate
feel free to use words like “insane” to describe people who see the big picture, and think like heroes.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
by SleepyCA on Feb 12, 2012 3:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see what the big picture here is
anyway I believe in plenty of heroes, and think stan musial’s an outstanding human being who represents the best baseball has to offer. but I don’t think someone’s inherently heroic for continuing to get screwed over by a corrupt institution for the love of baseball fans.
by DanUpBaby on Feb 12, 2012 3:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
more specifically:
1. I think stan musial’s most heroic quality is the way he’s relentlessly modeled the characteristics of a decent, humble, moral human being in a public position that offers anyone in it plenty of chances to betray those ideals.
2. I don’t think any of that is related to his having stayed in one place his entire career, especially given how little say he generally had in the matter and how poorly he was compensated.
3. I don’t think st. louis as a place or the cardinals as a franchise have anything to do with it, either.
4. I don’t think there was anything indecent, immoral, or less-than-humble about the mexican league or the chance to make a salary commensurate with what he was earning gussie busch up to that time.
by DanUpBaby on Feb 12, 2012 4:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
big picture is
that Pujols had the opportunity to leave a legacy in STL, and he chose to forsake that, for around $15M, after taxes. Which, for a person who will have made (at the end of his career) close to $400M, seems like a very small-fry thing.
It’s absolutely NOT insane to think about things other than your pocketbook, and Albert Pujols would have been insane NOT to think about the way LA would treat him, in his out-years. I’m guessing it will end very similarly to the way Mannywood ended. All the billboards just disappear, one day; he stops being invited to show up at any team functions, overnight; the personal services stuff gets conveniently forgotten, and everyone lives happily ever after, except for the sad guy who doesn’t have a red jacket.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
I honestly believe the guy did it for the respect, and not the money
which is its own value judgment, I guess, but I’m certainly not going to pretend that pujols isn’t a guy who seems to perceive slights that aren’t there.
I feel like this has something to do with it
I think part of the reason the guy is so good is that he has carried a chip on his shoulder since being drafted in the 13th round, despite his hitting that was on display earlier in his career. and what if he is the age that he says he is? then that is an even bigger chip on his shoulder.
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 12, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's more than 15 million
The difference in contracts was 50 million. I don’t know how you’re taxing that down to 15.
At any rate I agree that Pujols made a mistake by not signing here, I just don’t think there’s anything wrong with what he did.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 4:26 AM EST up reply actions
gov't takes 35% off the top
so $50M becomes $32.5M, and MO state income tax maxes out at 6%, vs 9.9% in CA, plus extra home games in CA (Oakland tax) takes it to about $19.8M, plus city/property taxes in CA that are much higher than anything in MO. Doesn’t include cost of living adjustment, or “misery of having to get on the 57 freeway every day, for the rest of your career”, which blows everything to hell.
There’s a good chance that he’s actually losing money by moving to LA.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
yknow, I have no idea what Larussa was talking about when he mentioned the player’s union pressuring Pujols into taking a big contract, but I feel it should be brought up again. there is something that is being overlooked, peer pressure. I’m sure his wife wanted him to take more money, he wanted to be shown respect due to baseball snubbing him in the draft (although it becomes not about the money at this point, but about principle). there is also the issue of perhaps him wanting to show that he can hit well in the AL too, for the record books. and maybe he thought as an older man he wouldn’t mind being a DH at the end of a very long contract.
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 12, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
who doesn't want free money?
throws money in the air
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:19 AM EST up reply actions
the same way that Pujols wouldn't have gone to the Pirates if they offered him a 300 million deal
legitamacy.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 3:26 AM EST up reply actions
And that is complete speculation on your part.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
So would me saying "Pujols doesn't want to die"
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 3:41 AM EST up reply actions
and that's just a bizarre nonsequitur.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
you think it's baseless speculation
to say that Pujols wouldn’t have gone to the Pirates if they offered him a larger deal?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 3:47 AM EST up reply actions
You said Pujols "wouldn't have gone to"...
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
he would have because that would have been more respect
because it set the record. And the pirates are on the rise so he could have had credit for bringing in the rings also
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:48 AM EST up reply actions
that's ridiculous
Pujols cares about winning and the Pirates are the worst bet in the league for that to happen.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 3:59 AM EST up reply actions
but it's more money
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 7:57 AM EST up reply actions
truth
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 12, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
oh i know, but have you ever heard one bad thing about Stan?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Different media eras
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Stan's been around forever
if there was something more than the murry chass thing we would have heard about it
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
there was that murray chass thing, however poorly recollected
but based on the pujols logic, surely nobody’s more protected in the st. louis media than stan musial.
i don't think people protect Stan because they wanted to
you ask anyone who’s ever met him and they won’t say a bad thing about because there’s nothing bad to say. he really is that good.
Albert on the other hand people want to believe he’s something he’s not, so they over look behavior & cover up things so as to not make him look bad. they don’t have to do that anymore so that’s why i think more stories will come out.
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
I just don't see what the difference is between believing musial and pujols to be good people
if your hypothesis is that the st. louis media protected its hero while he was in town.
as i said above i don't think they had a choice
it was either tow the company line that Albert is a saint like Stan or face the consequences. TLR & the Cardinals have always controlled the message. well that’s changed so it would not surprise me at all if we begin to hear more & more in the coming years Albert wasn’t exactly who he says he is.
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
look what happened to jack clark
he calls them out & they fire him. i know this might sound all conspiracy theorist , but for the most part they control the message. speak out of line & they punish you
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
your ex-girlfriends are all "crazy bitches", right?
Still not a werewolf.
by clank on Feb 12, 2012 2:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
not at all, everyone knows i'm the crazy one
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
You realize he took on a kid with down syndrome before ever hitting the majors and making all the money he has, right?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 12, 2012 12:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
there's absolutely no doubt he is a good, maybe even great man
but i do not believe anymore he is as good or great as advertised
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
What's all this yelling about Dikembe Mutombo?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
You're more racist than the people who are getting all high on their horse about Whitney Houston,
but thought that Amy Winehouse’s death was tragic.
Heh
No, you’ve got it all wrong. See, Whitney was clearly the innocent victim. I intend to blame Bobby Brown , since I’m only racist against black men. Do to my beta-white-male fear of them. I think I’m doing this right?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Do???
Fuck all. I’m “do” for an end to my horrible typo disease.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
its too lake! we're all gonna bie!
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
by gdm426 on Feb 11, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair I think his number is going to be retired
I was just making a backhanded complaint about 15 being so damn available and after the “retire 51” movement Noone pushing retire 15
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 12, 2012 12:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
if Craig is still walking with a limp, he's not going to be ready till at least the all star break
which means Jay & Beltran really can’t get off to slow or bad starts
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
I haven't seen anything revising the original 4-6 month timetable, yet.
So let’s hope the ASB remains the absolute worst case scenario.
6 months would be the end of May right?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
alright, i wouldn't look for him to be back till they go on the road vs the mets then
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Not really true
If he is still limping, it’s likely due to quad weakness. He’s probably right where he should be
Though I do agree that Jay and Beltran need to play well
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 11, 2012 10:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
why is his quad so weak that it's causing him to limp?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Because muscles atrophy when they aren't used.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 12, 2012 1:11 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
yeah i know that i just didn't think it would happen so quickly for a professional athlete
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Maybe quicker since he's used to pushing it.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 12, 2012 1:41 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
i didn't think it would atrophy as badly either since he's an athlete but clearly i'm not very smrt
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
because he was in an immobilizer for at least 4 weeks
and maybe even six.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
i guess i didn't realize muscles can atrophy that badly for professional athletes
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
just looking at this seasons schedule, why did big Fox go back to 1pm starts on Saturday's?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
OK it appears the start times vary all season long, that's not going to be confusing at all
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Didn't they always?
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 11, 2012 6:04 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
i thought unless it was the sawx vs Yanks all the Sat games now started at 4pm est
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Don't the Sawx and Yanks play each other
every Saturday of the season? Sure seems like it.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
well they should, they're the only teams everyone wants to see play
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
huh?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
sarcasm young skywalker
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
i'm going to see the tigers/yankees more than the cards on fox games
tis why i hate being a michigan cardinals fan.
They did always start at 4 pm.
This is probably because they again changed the blackout rules…most likely for the worst.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
they changed the blackout rules? when did this happen?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
This coming season.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
how did i miss this? i have been reading everything on the blackouts i can find
because i hate not seeing the Cards feed when they play the reds, and didn’t know they changed them. thebizofbaseball.com is a great site that follows the blackout rules closing & i don’t think they’ve had anything on it either.
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Unabashedly off-topic
My ever-faithful desktop is finally showing signs of wear after 7 years. The computer world is very different than it was in 2005, and I haven’t had a reason to keep up.
Any good desktop recommendations?
The loaded OS is inconsequential because I’m just putting OpenSUSE on it anyway.
I don’t play games. I don’t edit videos, photos, or music. The only applications I use are Chrome, Mathematica, Texmaker, and Amarok. Oh, and I stream baseball games. And sometimes I make lousy photoshops in GIMP. Yes, I know I said photoshops.
Wake up and argue computer manufacturers, Saturday VEB.
Still not a werewolf.
pew pew! -- vaporized!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
I was really hoping that becoming a quarter-centurion would make me like these guys
Alas, no Power Extreme for me.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Hahaha thanks!
When the clock strikes midnight, I expect to feel my insurance rates go down.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
It's a little-expressed secret
but on your 25th, the government sends you a package in the mail full of handy tips, tricks, and all-out kickass secrets that make you a terrific driver. That’s why the rates go down all at once instead of gradually.
Still not a werewolf.
actually don't insurance rates go down at 26?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
That's not my understanding.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 12, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Note to self: Check the mail.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 12, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
As little as possible, really.
I need very few whistles and/or bells.
I’m thinking it may be wiser just to get more RAM and a new monitor.
Still not a werewolf.
What's a decent amount of memory to have?
I have 2 GB currently, and am unsure whether to bump to 3 or 4 if I go this route.
Still not a werewolf.
I assume this means you changed your mind re: the foxy 19 yr old.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
There were tweets!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I spent a day in agonizing lust over a foxy 19-year-old
before I remembered I’m nearly 26 and a little smarter than that.
Still not a werewolf.
if you don't date her, i will dammit
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Spending a day in agonizing lust?
That’ll make you go blind!
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 11, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
No, not really. You've clearly expressed that the lust factor is extremely high.
What I’m saying is that if her lust factor is also extremely high, and she doesn’t have unrealistic ideas about the reasoning behind possible dalliances, then dilly-dally away.
Yup
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I was kidding.
But nah, I don’t have enough free time for that.
And a little too much common sense (I don’t think I’ve ever said that before)
Still not a werewolf.
also
getting involved simply because someone is foxy and the feeling is reciprocated isn’t among my better ideas.
Still not a werewolf.
Depends on what "involved" means, I guess.
I’ve just changed my mind from my previous stance is all. I knew my wife when she was 19. Her 19 year-old self would have been perfectly capable of dealing with my 25 year-old self. Just depends on the individuals in question, I suppose.
But baseball is coming soon, so you need to save your free time anyway.
i am greatly disappointed in you
i’m afraid one day you’ll realize you’re wasting a chance of having a great time & a lot of fun
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
I want to say "You don't have to be."
But you’ve probably made the right choice. She’d have to be an awfully adult 19 to be datable.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Feb 11, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
I am disappointed in you. I mean you listened to the robot.
/notreally
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
spants was the first voice of reason, actually.
Who represented the other side? Rui and fang. hm.
Still not a werewolf.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I assumed you were telling me to not listen to me being the voice of reason
and to have a great foxy time
Still not a werewolf.
Yes, yes I was.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
most PCs over $400 would suit your needs fine and last for a fairly long time.
the cost difference between a build your own and a manufacturer are pretty extreme, though. a $400 ByO would cost >$600 from a manufacturer, at least.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Feb 11, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of good info
At reddit/buildapc and I can pretty much answer any question you have
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Actually no
Only in Houston and Dallas
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
You can probably get a decent refurbished from Fry's Electronics
I would check that place out
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
It's installing the OS and drivers that tend to take so long
Even so, I can usually do one in 2-3 hours, start to finish.
DO YOU THINK IT'S NOT GOING TO BE WHAT IT IS?!!
by Vindicator9000 on Feb 11, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure which is better or why..
but I saw this monitor + this rebate from another forum. It sounds like a great deal, but someone here likely has better input:
ASUS VH236H 23 Inch Widescreen LCD Monitor – Black – http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002453K5G/
rebate – http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/00/00/19/67/19/69/1967196990.V139989775.pdf
If you can afford it, LED. My wife's laptop has an LED, and I think it's really purty.
But get a big screen. I have a 24" LCD monitor, and I’m never going back to a smaller size.
I just watched 2001 A Space Oddysey for the second time
The first time I didn’t really like it all that much, but this time.. holy shit. It’s definitely in a class of its own.
Has anyone read the book? I really want to read it as it seems like Clarke would give a little more philosophical guidance.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
it definitely seems like it draws on the same themes of Childhood's End
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
\O Thats most excellent, outstanding! I went to see it when it first game out, and was blown away then, and each
time I view it, it just keeps getting better and better, seems like it has aged very well. I did this past summer read the book for my first time, and then went out and bought the audio book as well and was blown away once again, it sure tied alot stuff up for me, especially the first part with the black monolith.. After reading the book I couldn’t believe I didn’t read it sooner.
by Tuning in from Korea on Feb 11, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
The book is amazing.
Honestly think that it’s better than Rendezvous with Rama, though Rama seems to be the consensus greatest Clarke novel.
by cardinalswsbound on Feb 12, 2012 2:36 AM EST up reply actions
the angels are abandoning attempts to sign aybar
Before the season. Which likely means he’ll hit the market next fall. Do we care? What would we have to see from furcal, greene, or jackson to negate serious interest in aybar?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 7:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
It'd be a bummer if we had to spend 4/40 on SS or whatever it would take to get Aybar...
one of the three guys should be able to be league average in 2014.
Sign Roy O
i'd probably pay aybar $10 millon a year & i wouldn't think twice about it
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Need confirmations from 8 VEBers that they will be returning to the ESPN keeper league this year
Fang
mysterui
stlcardsfan4
MooCow
sorry but I have no idea who these guys are
“Blo no birds n bats”
“Chucktown highstockings”
“team murley”
“Carpenter’s luggage”
I have a wait list going for those who want to pick up someones team so let me know if you’d like to be added.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
That Awkward Moment When:
Your professor informs you she has been criticized by her students before and you realize you are one of those students. Y es that just happened.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
What are you doing at school on saturday
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
She called me because she is the advisor of a club I'm president of.
I don’t even ever see Clemson’s campus anymore. Although I would love to because my student teaching experience has been awful.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
what's so bad about it?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 8:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The principal told me after two weeks that I shouldn't student teach anymore.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Classroom Management basically.
Which is ridiculous because I’m apparently not supposed to be good at that yet.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Yeah, it's impossibly hard at the beginning. The principal is an idiot if he/she thinks two weeks of
classroom management difficulties is in any way predictive of any thing.
Keep working at it, be yourself, and you’ll figure out what you need to do.
I'm having a meeting with people from the university and her and my teacher on Monday.
I want to be moved but I don’t if that is likely.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
If they don't move you, just keep your chin up. It's rarely smooth-sailing in the beginning
at any aspect of that profession. I never taught elementary, so I can’t speak from experience, but I know a number of elementary school teachers well, and they all say that classroom management was the hardest part of the job for the first year or two they taught. I can’t imagine how difficult it could be for kindergartners.
It is hard but that's not the problem.
I know it’s going to be hard…she doesn’t appear to know that.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
do you want me to take her out?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
classroom management is discipline?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 8:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
because you're too good? too bad?
Because you drop f-bombs right and left?
Wait, did you tell the kids the south lost the civil war?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 8:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You mean the War of Northern Aggression?
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 11, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I would believe that last one.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
It was my plan if I taught the Civil War in the South to tell children the truth.
But that is not a Kindergarten standard.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Good starting point:
Being more honest/less racist about American Indians
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Feb 11, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
sounds like a good chapter heading for an
American History textbook.
“Class, this week I want you to read ‘andrew jackson was a dick’ and ‘wherein we kill a bunch of mexicans, just because.’ And there will be a quiz on “the missouri compromise: human chattel for some, little american flags for others.’”
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 9:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
As a bonus we'll read "It's okay to put Asians in camps but not Jews..."
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Follow-up chapter
“Tuskegee: untreated syphilis for some, little american flags for others.”
by BTown Birds fan on Feb 11, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Android rec
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 12, 2012 1:46 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
With kindergarten kids
Just mix in some chloroform with the glue. Makes nap time a lot easier
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
"lemon, someone called me a grade A moron."
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 8:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
C'est la vie
Faux Rhéal Cormier @FauxRhalCormier
Ceci n’est pas Rhéal Cormier.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
La plume de Rheal Cormier n'est pas bingy bongy dingy dangy!
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Man, Mizzou beat Baylor once again...
by Tuning in from Korea on Feb 11, 2012 9:10 PM EST reply actions
Yep beating kU will be the real deal, I just wish college basketball had an
app like major league at bat, so I can listen in to all the games.
by Tuning in from Korea on Feb 11, 2012 9:26 PM EST reply actions
So, the other day I made some joke on VEB
about how the last time the Pirates had a winning season, people were still talking about Whitney Houston’s awesome national anthem at the Super Bowl. And this morning I had that Bobby Brown song from Ghostbusters II in my head, and my wife challenged me to name three Whitney Houston songs (I did, barely… I Wanna Dance With Somebody, I Will Always Love You, The Greatest Love of All).
And now she’s dead. This is a weird feeling.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
you killed Whitney! you bastard!
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
by gdm426 on Feb 11, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wow, just got home from date night and just found out.
It is a bummer. I’m not saying I was much of a fan, but damn – she was ridiculously talented.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 11, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
that reminds me of a dream I had this fall.
I dreamt I was at a dinner party and I was seated next to phil hartman. I started chatting him up, and I knew that I was doing the annoying fanboy thing, but couldn’t help myself. Phil was very gracious about it although he looked kind of pained.
So I started asking him about fellow castmates from Newsradio and how they were doing. I told him it was neat to see how well maura tierney and khandi alexander were doing.
Then I asked if he thought andy dick would get some help. He paused for a minute and said quietly that andy dick had died three days earlier, but they hadn’t informed the media yet.
I woke up and wondered if andy dick had really died. Then I remembered that hartman had been dead for 15 years. Then I realized I had reached an age where one dreams about people who’ve been dead for 15 years.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Feb 11, 2012 10:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
phil hartman's been dead for 15 years? say it ain't so
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
what the hell? where did the time go?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
shocker
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 12, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
I'm going to share this over at the Snake Pit.
I think they’ll like it:
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
by ClemsonGirl on Feb 11, 2012 9:44 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
BASEBEEEEEELLLLLL!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
Do you get it? Do ya?
Is this thing on?
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Feb 11, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
lol
livin fuzzy in a binary world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 11, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
I was focusing on this...
Congratulations to Brewers GM Doug Melvin for his induction into the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame. Joining Melvin in the 2012 CBHOF class are former Major Leaguers Rheal Cormier and Rusty Staub, plus Canada’s gold-medal winning baseball team from the 2011 Pan Am Games. The official induction ceremony takes place on June 23 in St. Marys, Ontario.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
hahaha
So The Continental sponsors his b-ref page. How many pages is that now? He’s the VEB patron saint of b-ref pages!
Still not a werewolf.
Just two (for now)
also, Joe Mather’s pitcher page at Brooks Baseball.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 11, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
I should renew it,
guy deserves a little love for that site.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 11, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Done.
Sadly, Brooks doesn’t go back far enough for Rheal.
Retire #52!
by The Continental on Feb 11, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't see this posted here yet
Berkman, at a recent Astros event:
"I want to thank the Houston Lone Stars for this award," Berkman said. "What? They didn’t approve that? It’s still the Astros?"via
Still not a werewolf.
more nightly stupid youtube videos, everyone
I'll just add this then
Requiem for a Dream in 60 Seconds (with puppets)
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
That is a movie
I never want to watch again. I like my drug related movies to be more upbeat. Less Trainspotting more Harold and Kumar
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 11, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
this
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
hah, this is such a cool song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X79u0C9_q_A
i love how it starts off.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
Cocaine's one helluva drug.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Well, yes
But let’s wait for an autopsy first, if you’re insinuating what I think you’re insinuating
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Even if it wasn't drugs, ultimately it was the drugs.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 12, 2012 1:52 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
she was amazing in the 80's and early 90's
i don’t know anything about her personal life, but seems like she threw so much away
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
I think when someone is that immensely talented
it’s impossible for there not to be waste.
I think people were really hoping for that Hollywood redemption story and it just didn’t happen.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 12, 2012 1:57 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
not impossible ... she did use drugs pretty heavily
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
you know what i want to know? why is her body still in the freaking hotel room?
why didn’t the medics rush her to the hospital?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
What I mean is
Who wrings out ALL of their talent?
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 12, 2012 3:06 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Scorsese
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 3:08 AM EST up reply actions
woody allen maybe?
I think that’s what happens when you wring out all your talent: people say, what a waste! he puts out one mediocre movie a year and he didn’t quit while he was ahead.
Haha, good point!
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 12, 2012 3:24 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
recently watched "purple rose of cairo" with the kids
they loved it.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:29 AM EST up reply actions
I haven't seen Hugo yet,
but Scorcese has recycled his own ideas for years. I’ve heard Hugo is quite a new direction for him.
You guys can name people who are at a Whitney Houston level of talent who have wrung out all they can, but there will always be many, many more people who don’t. Human beings are flawed.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Feb 12, 2012 3:23 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I agree with your completely
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Feb 12, 2012 3:28 AM EST up reply actions
Isaac Motherfucking Newton
Still not a werewolf.
by clank on Feb 12, 2012 3:12 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I deem the comment worthy of being
GREEN
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. - Joe Posnanski
well no one that has a life
except maybe ty cobb
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 3:21 AM EST up reply actions
Is VEB asleep?
just got the cat in … damn it’s cold out there
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
VEBTwitter is all a buzz over movie titles
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
and I must say
Bravo VEB for the entertaining movie titles. I wish I would have come along sooner to add to the hilarity.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
do you have to have a phone to get into this twitter thing?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Feb 12, 2012 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
yeah well at least you didn't put your foot in your mouth
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
I'm seriously thinking about firing up a jeremy brett
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
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