Six Six Six - A Numerical Repudiation of the Six Man Rotation
by azruavatar on Jan 29, 2012 6:00 AM EST
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I've seen some commenters, here and elsewhere, discuss the idea of a six-man rotation should the Cardinals sign Roy Oswalt. What follows is a set of tables that should illustrate why this is a bad idea. The best way I can put the argument in simple terms is that a six man rotation gives fewer starts to better pitchers in exchange for worse pitchers. There's no real evidence that this keeps pitchers healthier but that is the argued advantage. There's some evidence that high pitch counts in individual games are dangerous to pitchers but less evidence that a high number of games are dangerous if the pitcher stays on their rotation.
The claims are difficult to refute because there is a lack of hard evidence since no team has had a six man rotation. What we can do is run the numbers on run prevention using projections like ZiPS to estimate pitcher talent and scale the number of innings each pitcher would get accordingly. So I admit that some of the claimed advantages of a six man rotation are difficult to refute but that is primarily because they can't be proven either. They are simply unfalsifiable. What I can show is that more innings to worse pitchers is a bad idea.
A few notes:
- FIP is being calculated from peripherals in Dan Szymborski's ZiPS projection system using a 3.2 league modifier.
- All starters are assumed to make 30 starts in a 5 man rotation with the remaining 12 starts going to a replacement pitcher (Lance Lynn in this case). Starters make 26 starts in a 6 man rotation with a replacement pitcher getting 6 starts.
- The bullpen is considered to be used the same under both circumstances with a replacement level reliever (Kyle McClellan) picking up any additional innings created in these scenarios. You can simplify this consideration by assuming that the innings per start for both Oswalt & Westbrook are equivalent. If you do the run totals don't effectively change since Westbrook's FIP projects the same as a middle reliever and he bumps a better reliever out of the bullpen. Literally nothing changes in that scenario, I've simply chosen to project Westbrook for fewer IP/GS than Oswalt.
- Innings per start are a combination of my judgment and ZiPS projected innings per start.
You can certainly argue with these caveats but, in order to get a six man rotation to be advantageous, you have to make some radically different assumptions about pitcher effectiveness and playing time.
The first scenario is if the Cardinals stick with a five man rotation and don't sign Oswalt (BO5 = Before Oswalt 5 Starters).
| Player | Innings - BO5 | ZiPS FIP | Runs Scored - BO50 |
| Adam Wainwright | 195 | 3.20 | 69 |
| Chris Carpenter | 210 | 3.45 | 80 |
| Jaime Garcia | 180 | 3.50 | 70 |
| Kyle Lohse | 180 | 4.20 | 84 |
| Jake Westbrook | 165 | 4.35 | 79 |
| Roy Oswalt | 0 | 3.65 | 0 |
| Replacements (Lynn) | 60 | 3.85 | 25 |
That is a total of 990 innings across 162 starts. We'll see later that 30 starts from a five man rotation that includes Roy Oswalt is going to pitch 15 additional innings in this hypothetical example but we'll assign those to Kyle McClellan our default middle reliever. Remember that when we're adding innings to the bullpen, it's likely that the good relievers are already pitching as frequently as they can so the lesser relievers will be taking on the additional starter's innings.
| Player | Innings - BO5 | ZiPS FIP | Runs Scored - BO50 |
| Reliever (McClellan) | 15 | 4.5 | 7 |
This set of starters will allow a total of 407 runs plus 7 runs coming from middle relief. That is 414 runs in a total of 1005 innings. Now lets look at the same set of starts if we put Roy Oswalt in and use a 6 man rotation. They will pitch 992 innings in this scenario and leave a middle reliever with 13 innings.
| Player | Innings - AO6 | ZiPS FIP | Runs Scored - AO6 |
| Adam Wainwright | 169 | 3.20 | 60 |
| Chris Carpenter | 182 | 3.45 | 69 |
| Jaime Garcia | 156 | 3.50 | 60 |
| Kyle Lohse | 156 | 4.20 | 72 |
| Jake Westbrook | 143 | 4.35 | 69 |
| Roy Oswalt | 156 | 3.65 | 63 |
| Replacements (Lynn) | 30 | 3.85 | 12 |
| Reliever (McClellan) | 13 | 4.50 | 6 |
That is a total of 411 runs allowed. So if you sign Roy Oswalt and play a six man rotation you are essentially paying his entire salary for a 3 run upgrade. That's a hefty rate for less than half a win. The last scenario is after an Oswalt signing with a 5 man rotation (Jake Westbrook fades quietly into the night) and the rotation will accumulate 1005 innings so there will not be any additional middle reliever innings to account for.
| Player | Innings - AO5 | ZiPS FIP | Runs Scored - AO5 |
| Adam Wainwright | 195 | 3.2 | 69 |
| Chris Carpenter | 210 | 3.45 | 80 |
| Jaime Garcia | 180 | 3.5 | 70 |
| Kyle Lohse | 180 | 4.2 | 84 |
| Jake Westbrook | 0 | 4.35 | 0 |
| Roy Oswalt | 180 | 3.65 | 73 |
| Replacements (Lynn) | 60 | 3.85 | 25 |
This rotation yields 401 runs over 1005 innings. This is essentially a swap of Jake Westbook and Roy Oswalt. So we're talking about a 13 run upgrade.
(4.35-3.65) / 9 * 180 = 1.4
Take out the rounding errors and what we're seeing is that Roy Oswalt is a little more than a 1 win upgrade over Jake Westbrook. A six man rotation is not demonstrably better than a five man rotation with this set of pitchers. Additionally, this set of pitchers is something of a best case scenario for advocates of a six man rotation since all of the pitchers are above replacement level. For those teams with pitchers below replacement level (or just with worse pitchers in general) the penalty is far heavier since the gap between their pitchers talent level is greater than that between Adam Wainwright/Chris Carpenter/Jaime Garcia and Jake Westbrook.
As I'm filing this earlier and will be out of town for the remainder of the weekend, I won't have a chance to update this post if there is an actual Oswalt signing. I hope this serves as a dampener, however, to the idea of a six man rotation. The burden of proof resides with you to give some logical rationale or concrete numbers as to why the Cardinals would benefit from more starters.
A quick plug for Future Redbirds: Tomorrow will feature a question and answer session from John Vuch. Make sure and stop by.
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well settles it then
so what in the heck is Mo up too?
from MLBtr
One of the two sides will have to get creative for Roy Oswalt to land with the Cardinals, says Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. He says the team’s motives are unclear as well, noting that St. Louis recently checked in on Edwin Jackson.
looking as if rangers have a way ahead if they are serious … but would Oz starting and Harrison in bp be better than Harrison as sp?
More from Durrett, as he writes that Rangers pitcher Matt Harrison isn’t concerned about hearing Roy Oswalt’s name being connected to the club. Harrison would likely be bumped out of the rotation if Texas signs the veteran, but Harrison says that he’s okay with moving to the bullpen.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
Harrison is a team player
a good soldier.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
take note KMac
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 29, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Hopefully, he'll be Baltimore's good soldier by the end of the day.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Trade of KMac to Baltimoo...
…sends Westy to the ’pen and Oswalt to the 5th spot in the rotation…
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
So many numbers
so early in the morning.
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Mozeliak.just threw cold water
On oswalt……said to espn.com “these are just rumors and nothing more.”
Too bad
by stanchar on Jan 29, 2012 8:16 AM EST via mobile reply actions
/dreamkiller
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
He must not have good health
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2012 1:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Nadal just forced Djokovic to a fifth set by sheer force of will
It’s on ESPN2 if anybody is interested.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
you are speaking to me from the future
Doesn’t start for 20 more minutes here
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 29, 2012 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
You see Djokovic throw out a t-shirt to a young girl
Than some older lady snatched away from her
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 29, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
No, I didn't see that
Nice lady
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
It's nice to see a visual breakdown even though I still feel like the main point should be self-evident
However, I assume those arguing in favor of a six man rotation would claim that maybe the extra rest would lead to better FIP/performance or better results, or however you want to phrase it. So they would mentally “adjust” the FIP numbers to be a little better for each pitcher due to the extra rest. I have no idea what kind of evidence there would be to support this, as I assume whatever evidence could be found would be prone to small sample pitfalls.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Jan 29, 2012 8:53 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
A five-man rotation is the ultimate goal, and maybe...
… we would even attain that goal quicckly if, as the rumors suggest, we sign Oswalt tomorrow and then trade Westbrook (supposedly, for Brian Roberts).
bah
Six is a serious number. You can’t convince me otherwise.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 29, 2012 9:18 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions 6 recs
Also, what's being discussed is not so much a "6-man rotation" as it would be a "5-days-of-rest" rotation...
…I would like to see your numbers if you gave evrybody five days of rest and only started Westbook when needed to get that fifth day of rest.
What might be appropriate for this particular rotation (assuming we sign Oswalt)
is a month-by-month adjustment to maximize the benefits of the staff. Jason Powers wrote an article on this subject recently: http://www.upperdeckreport.com/news_article/show/114276?referrer_id=290721
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
Interesting theory
I don’t know that I completely agree with much of it. The premise to use the 4 man rotation at the end of the year because those games “matter more” is completely bogus. A win in April = a win in September. Teams don’t get two wins for end of the year games. Also, jumping from a 6-starter month in July to a 4-starter month for the last two months of the year could be detrimental to pitchers accustomed to 5 days rest (jumping to 3 days rest.) Having a starter out of the pen may not be as good as relievers out of the pen – as usually starters have more pitches than relievers and work to establish pitches and see what is working that day. Were they to pitch an inning or two out of the pen, but the time they figure out what’s working they’d be out of the game.
I personally go back and forth on the idea that late games and late innings "matter" more
My initial impression is always to agree with you—wins are wins no matter when they occur. A home run by our hitters or a strike out by our pitchers help us win no matter what inning. But I always come around to at least seeing the other point of view as somewhat logical. It’s the scarcity argument, basically. The season (or game) is more or less a closed system (obviously not quite in the case of extra innings or a tie-breaker game or something). I think there is something to the notion that, as we approach fewer remaining opportunities, the additional scoring or winning becomes more important somehow… but I have no idea how to put a value on that and make fair comparisons.
In the end I always end up agnostic on it.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
It doesn't matter more. Of you win 95 in a row to start the season and another team loses 68 in a row
Then they finish with 94 straight wins and you finish with 67 straight losses, you still win the division. The only argument you can make is that teams improve at the trading deadline by identifying thier weaknesses and making trades to fix them, so it’s more important for you to be better after that trade deadline. That argument can be undercut then by the idea that being stronger before the other teams improve at the deadline means you can rack up more wins against them while they are weaker and easier to beat. It’s human to feel the games are more important but it’s untrue
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 10:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
See, this is so clearly logical to me
And anyway I think I didn’t do a very good job of arguing in favor of the other view point.
It’s not that the games really “matter” more. But I can’t get over the idea that the increasingly smaller opportunities mean… something. I’m really unsure of what to call that “something”, how to define it, how to treat it when evaluating baseball. I think there is a “there” there, but that’s about as far as I can get without someone smarter than me trying to make the case for it.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
It means there is more pressure to perform, therefor more emotional reward, like Freese and Berk tying games when we are down to our last strike, or making a rediculous comeback from 10 1/2 games out
But other than the emotional stress/benefit there is no greater value to the wins
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 10:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not even talking about perception though
I am talking about simple math. The remaining opportunity to acquire something (wins or runs in this case) has to change the calculus somehow. Or so it seems to me. It’s not the same thing as planning ahead at the beginning of the season, that should all be pretty much context neutral because obviously we are not psychic.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I can appreciate this perspective.
Though I’m inclined to believe that there is an added psychological component to winning games late in the season. Last year’s Pirates and Red Sox spring to mind.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 29, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I think there probably is a psychological component, but that just wasn't really what I was talking about
I hope Buddhasinllegitimatechild didn’t think I was snarking on him or something. I absolutely agree that those things are real. But I am hesitant to make any assumptions about how that actually affects the players so I was just leaving that out of it.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I don't think you are snarking, and by the same token I hope WMT doesn't think I'm snarking at him below (in fact I don't think he was even arguing for WPa and LI, just prying for opinion)
I just don’t see what would make the value different. Yes I get that if you have theory games left winning twenty of them is valuable, especially if you need exactly 20 wins to clinch. But if you turn twenty losses into twenty wins earlier in the season then you already have those 20 wins you need to clinch and the other games don’t matter at all. Being human and feeling certain ways about winning and losing baseball games is the whole reason we watch, it’s a good thing. Goo thing or not, though, it doesn’t change the truth, all regular season wins have the same value
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 11:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's a fun debate to have no matter what
I think the psychological aspect also is (I guess obviously) what leads people to over-value this phenomenon.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Oh yeah, and debates like this, as well as the emotions that stem from the phenomenon are part of the beauty of the sport
I know 2011 sure as hell was fun
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 12:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
2011 was pretty awesome
At this point I’m not rooting for a repeat of that kind of season. So much stress! I’d much rather just have the Cards steamroll the division. I was slowly becoming a more serious baseball fan during the first half of the 2000s and didn’t understand much of what was going on. I was also in college for most of it, part of that out of the country, so I was paying much less attention. So I have never really experienced a team like the 2004 or 2005 Cardinals as a serious, knowledgeable baseball fan. That sounds pretty fun to me.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
2004 was fantastic, it also made 2006 more sweet
Because it felt like we finally got that championship we should have had the two years before and never got
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 12:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
watching the MV3 and Reggie Sanders play every day
might have been the highlight of my 2004 (and Larry Walker too)
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 29, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
So you don't believe in LI, WPA, WAR for relievers based on leverage, or anything else
That differentiates the value of the first out in the game or the value of an out in a 10-0 blowout, from an out in the 9th inning of a tie game?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Well, like I said I usually end up feeling agnostic about it
I think there’s something to it, I am just never quite sure who has the correct view on it.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Not the timing aspect
The value of performing when others haven’t? yes. Don’t get me wrong, if it’s 1-0 in the ninth, scoring two runs is a big deal, but I’d you score two runs and the other team scores 1 over the course of a game it doesn’t matter what inning it was in, it’s still a 2-1 final. If you find me a game where one team scores two and the other scores 1 and the one that scores 1 wins because of timing, then I give. I do however realize that scoring a couple of runs when it’s 1-0 is a bigger deal then when it’s 10-0. I believe clutch exists I just realize that as an “intangible” it isn’t tangible enough to evaluate and most people that claim they have some magical way to evaluate it are just pumping up a player that they like.(which I’m sure won’t get much arguement here) That’s more about performing in comparison to everyone on the field than what inning/game. A run is a run and a win is a win(with the exception of regular season vs playoff of course)
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 10:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
This has nothing to do with clutch.
It has to do with the fact with that wins in a playoff race are actually worth more than games earlier in the year. Just like an Astros win in Sept. last year is worthless. That’s because playoff odds change as the season goes along. Wins are not worth anything except for their value in getting a team into the playoffs – not recognizing this is what leads to the argument above.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
The Astros games at the end of the didnt matter because they didn't win enough total games, not because they were in September
If we lost in the first four months the way the Astros did then our games wouldn’t matter either, that’s not because games in September matter more or less (and if you haven’t noticed to make that argument you have to say that games later in the year matter more AND less depending on team, which, of course, is a contradiction) it’s because we realize that since they didn’t win enough in the early year just as valuable wins that winning late in the year won’t make up for it because the wins aren’t more valuable. Wins may be more or less difficult to attain because of team improved/worsened from trades or playing differently because they are in or out of it but difficulty of schedule/ weather/ injuries to your own or opposing teams also makes wins more or less difficult and they all have the same value.
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 11:11 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You guys are just talking semantics
Playoff leverage changes as the season goes along, but when looking at it after the season (or before) wins are all worth the same.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You are correct on this point as a general matter
But teams do act in accorandce with the value of their expected wins in the offseason. That is why the Astros aren’t signing big ticket FAs this offseason. Increasing team performance by five wins is worthless to them because they are not going to make the playoffs anyway. in this way we can see that team’s don’t value wins the same, even in the offseason.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
No I agree with that obviously
I mean to say wins are all worth the same for each team. So the Astros don’t value a win in September more than they do in April when planning for the season.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
But there's a big difference between
that last marginal win that gets you into the playoffs and the one before it. You don’t know where that set point is in the preseseason, but you do at the trade deadline. So, teams will pay more for that middle reliever that supposedly puts them over the top at the trade deadline than they ever would in February.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Or in other words
your 90th win gives you a bigger increase in your season clinch probability than your first win does.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I agree with that also, but that's not what this discussion is about
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with this 100%
But the question wasn’t 90th win vs 1st or even say, 60th. It was a question of if that 90th win coming from a win in August or September instead of a win in April or May makes it more important. I don’t think it does. If you win 89 games otherwise and you win one of game 16 of the season and game 155, winning game 155 instead of 16 to make it to 90 isn’t more important or benificial. Basically if you have to win x games of y games left to make the playoffs, winning those x games at a sooner point in the season doesn’t keep you from the playoffs because the wins are less important. I equated to my work earlier and mentioned homework but lets equate it to homework. If you have three days to do it then doing it on the last night if it’s not done is necessary to do it, on the first night its not necessary but it’s not because the first night is less important, it’s because you have two nights to not do the homework and one to do it. Basically you need to do the home work BY the third night, not ON the third night. Obviously you don’t know how many wins mean playoffs before a season as less than 90 can possibly get you there and more than 90 not. That said you will need a set number of wins(1 more than whomever you beat out) of 162 by the end of the season. So let’s say 90 because that’s the numbers lots of calculations find the most valuable. If you need to win 90 games and you have won 70 and it’s more than 90 games in the season, say 130 or whatever you want, then you need 20 more by the end of the season. However you only need those 20 wins because you let 20 games earlier be losses instead of wins not because the games are more important, just like letting the first two night be wasted rather than doing the homework on the first two nights doesn’t mean the last night is more important, it just means you haven’t done what you’ve needed yet. Winning so many games BY the end of the season is what is important, not winning games AT the end of the season. Every regular season game (with the exception of games that also equate to a win or loss for someone you are fighting for a playoff spot with because you are playing head to head) is equally important
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 6:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So to sum it up in more detail
Wins in September aren’t worth more than wins in April, but 90th wins (and beyond) are worth more than 1st wins, regardless of when they happen.
Which means that teams should put more effort and invest more in the elements that will get them to the circa 90-win mark.
Cards fan in Middle East
Not sure how to articulate this best but...
On April 1 a win means the same to every team. On sep 25 it means everything to some teams, and nothing to most.
What if the total amount of a value of a win for for the sum of all 30 team stays constant throughout the season, but the individual values for the teams fluctuate rapidly?
Squish.
by Squishmytomato on Jan 29, 2012 5:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You'd have chaos!
Chaos, I tell you! Disaster of biblical proportions! Old Testament stuff, real wrath of GOBs type stuff…
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Cats and dogs living together!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 7:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes…the dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice…mass hysteria!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
I understand your point, it's not a difficult one to grasp, I just don't agree with it.
If the “value” of “wins” were disconnected from in-season playoff odds, I would agree with your point. But since I don’t agree that wins are disconnected from playoff odds, I can’t agree. And there is no contradiction to saying that games matter more or less later in the year depending on team, because again, playoff leverage/odds change for each team as the season progresses.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Ok, I see what you are saying
I’m not a fan of it because of the value aspect, and I feel the rest is a much mental as anything, and I was just wanting to explain to bobo that it’s a subjective aspect, even when he analyzes it using numbers
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 11:33 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not sure what the mental aspect has to do with anything we're talking about?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Because he said he feels like the wins mean more and he knows that there is math that agrees
I just wanted him to know that feeling like the wins mean more, I was letting him know that the feeling that the wins have more value because while the need is no greater as the same number of wins will send you to the playoffs, the need becomes more pressing if not already fulfilled. I was also trying to let him know that the math makes sense that say 1 win in 162 means less than 1 win in 30 because by isolating the late games (if you pick a late year day and go by that current situation) because by eliminating the earlier games you are naturally assigning their value as 0 and anything with positive value, such as a win, has more value than zero. That’s where the word mental in my response, as well as the whole discussion rooted from
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 11:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think my wording caused a bit of confusion, too
When I said things like “I feel like they are worth more” the stuff you’re talking about is definitely involved—I am a human being and cannot become completely unemotional.
However, I was also using words like “feel” in order to (try to) convey my cognitive ambiguity. I sense that there is something to this argument about leverage and playoff probability increasing the value of wins and runs, etc. But that sense feels blurry sometimes do to my uncertainty about whether I’m looking at it logically, valuing things correctly, etc. That is what I was trying to get across.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Yeah I think you were trying to say that need need becomes more pressing
For example, I’m in sales. I sell 100 phones a month usually. If I sell 20 by the middle of the month I suddenly become in danger of having trouble paying my mortgage in the near future. I don’t get payed more for selling the phones later in the month and my need to sell the other 80 phones doesn’t increase but it did suddenly become much more pressing because I haven’t already fulfilled that need. People are used to this feeling because we tend to procrastinate with school and work and have to rush to finish what they could have done before. Needless to say the feeling pertaining to a game like baseball is a lot more fun
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 12:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
OK. I would say...
that the reason why bobo feels that the wins “mean more” is because they actually do mean more, as a matter of fact and math. They “mean more” just like an out with the game tied in the ninth inning means more than an out in the 7th inning of a 10-0. It means more in the context of whether a team will win that game, just a like a win in September in the middle of a playoff race means more in improving a team’s playoff odds than a win by a 50-95 team does.
In other words, his intution is correct and he is valuing things correctly, using logic, etc.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think that this is the small sample size
vs. big picture argument.
In the example above, we were talking about games over the course of an entire season. One win in game one is equal to one win in game 162. If you lose game 1 and win game 162 in order to clinch, then you just clinch one game later in the year than you had a chance to earlier.
However, when you are looking at one at bat being more important than one other at bat – of course that matters at least slightly.
IMO
Playoff leverage definitely changes as the season goes along, and games in September definitely have more of an impact on playoff odds than games in April.
However, none of that matters when you’re planning something preseason, because the only thing that matters is trying to get the most wins possible.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
See, I think this is probably what I agree with. You did a much better job of saying it than I was.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Just another example I am thinking of...I hate the annual MVP award argument that "this guy hit way better in September, and that makes him the MVP"
Part of that is that the people advocating this usually do a crappy job of assigning that extra “value”. That’s why they do things like say Ryan Howard is the MVP merely because he hit a lot better in a later month after playing pretty badly the rest of the year. Even if you award “bonus points” for the late season there’s no way it’s going to overcome the guy who really deserves it.
But for the purpose of over-all analysis I think these issues should at least be taken into account.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
but when you're planning in-season, it has a huge impact
The Edwin Jackson/Rasmus trade wouldn’t have made much sense in April.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I wonder what the effect would be
If we had a couple of Japanese pitchers on the team. Guys lik Yu Darvish are used to fewer turns in the rotation. Maybe roster composition somehow needs to be considered in the Robot’s numbers, yes? Just a thought…
by JWO on Jan 29, 2012 10:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions
As far as I can tell, the impetus for the six-man rotation
is not for health/performance benefits, it’s to accommodate Westbrook’s and Oswalt’s feelings that they both need to be starters. So proving that there’s not a performance benefit doesn’t really address the problem at hand. I don’t think anyone here thinks that taking away starts from Adam, Carp, Jaime, Roy, and Lohse, assuming they are healthy enough to take them, and then redistributing them to Westbrook, will make the team better (but I could be wrong about that).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 10:33 AM EST reply actions
I can see what you are saying, the problem with that thought is that if Oswalt being signed doesn't improve the team, why spend the money?
Especially if you have to try to creatively accommodate the situation. It’s not like your managing a store and the hiring manager threw something in your lap that you didn’t want. We should only choose to spend $5-8million dollars, including if you sign Oswalt, if the situation is desirable
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 10:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You're*
Holy crap I’ve been bad about that lately
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 10:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The way that signing Oswalt benefits the team is by
Pushing Westbrook out of the starting rotation. the six-man rotation is just an idea to protect Westbrook’s feelings from being hurt from such a move, as far as I can tell.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Unless people think the extra rest for everybody would result in a greater aggregate result
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Heh. It would result in a result. Awesome writing, bobo...
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Well, if that were true, why don't we always have a discussion
About instituting a six-man rotation whenever there was an opportunity to add a starting pitcher with better than an projected 83 ERA+ (or whatever Westbrook’s projection is)? Why weren’t we discussing instituting the six-man rotation with Lance Lynn or Shelby Miller?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
This
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 11:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I totally agree--was just playing devil's advocate
The main argument for using the six-man thing this year, to me anyway, should logically be about health. Wainwright’s surgery, Garcia’s youth (though I think that one is overblown), Carpenter’s age, etc.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Yes, I am saying that "logically" it's not about health at all.
If it were actually about health and the chance that having a 6-man rotation would improve team performance overall, then we (collectively, using our powers of logic) would have had the same “6-man rotation” discussion whether or not Oswalt was going to be signed, but we would have been discussing Lynn or Miller being the 6th man. After all, all of those health issues you mention (Waino’s surgery, Carp’s age, Jaime’s youth) still exist whether Oswalt is signed or not, and Lynn/Miller still have a higher zIPS projection than Westbrook.
So what I’m saying is that the real reason for the argument about the 6-man rotation has nothing to do with health concerns or increased aggregate performance – instead, it is a bogus rationale, based on notions of “fairness” to Westbrook, to account for his feelings that he should still be a starter, even if he’s not one of the top 5, to the overall detriment of the team’s performance.
Therefore — and getting back to my very first point on this topic — showing that the 6-man rotation is not a boon to team performance, as rb has ably done, does not solve the problem. Because the problem that needs solving is not health-related, the prolem is accounting for Westbrook’s and Oswalt’s respective needs to be starters.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's amazing how the rumor of us signing Oswalt made me so ready to believe we had solved this problem already
I should probably have remained skeptical.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Are you arguing that Westbrook needs to be a starter?
Because I think that’s ridiculous. He was bad last year and his contract has nothing in it that says he needs to be in the rotation. Oswalt’s a 1.5 WAR upgrade over him, even over just 140-some innings.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't take it that way, for what it's worth
I think it’s more the phenomenon where players are not always moved out of the starting role as easily as we would like. Westbrook probably doesn’t want to move to the bullpen, and the Cardinals probably don’t want to tell him that it’s his only option if they can help it.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
But maybe we use it as leverage to move him to, say, Baltimore
Mo: “Jake, we’re in talks with Baltimore, they’d be willing to take you on as their #3 starter, as long as we pay 50% of your contract for 2012.”
JW: “I have a NTC, and I’m not going to go Baltimore. I’m not going anywhere.”
Mo: “Well, we’re also talking to them about KMac.”
JW: “Good, let him go play for one of the worst teams in the majors.”
Mo: “Fine, then, I’ll tell them they can have KMac for a bag of balls…”
JW: “Good.”
Mo: "…and you’ll be our long man and low-leverage/mop-up guy out of the ‘pen, once we sign Oswalt. We were just waiting to iron this situation out before announcing our deal with him.
JW: “Excell…wait, what?” I’m a starter, damn it, not a mop! I only came out of the ‘pen in the Series as a favor to Tony, I’m not a gobsdam reliever!"
Mo: “For this season, that’s exactly what you’ll be. Take it, or waive the NTC to go to Baltimore…”
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In answer to your subject line question - no, of course not.
I’m saying the whole idea of a six man rotation (which I’m not in favor of) is some bs compromise to keep Westbrook in the rotation.
My opinion is that If we sign Oswalt and can’t trade Westbrook, just make WB the long-man. The 6 man rotation idea is dumb, IMO.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Alright, yeah I agree with all of that
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, his most noteworthy win came
when he pitched out of the bullpen, amirite?
Cards fan in Middle East
also,
Greater rest in between starts = less chance of injury for a starter coming off injury (WW) and two coming off career highs in IP and scary injury histories (Garcia, Carp).
That’s the theory, anyway. No empirical evidence exists to support it, however.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 29, 2012 1:20 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
When you sign a better pitcher
It’s a means to push your crappiest pitcher out of the rotation, and thus eliminate a near-automatic loss every 5 games.
by olddomination on Jan 29, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Right, so if we are making this argument then why are we not arguing against signing Oswalt at the same time
Again I agree with you but if what you are saying is true, then why even sign Oswalt?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 11:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah I definitely agree
those things are justifications.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
6 man roatation idea to me
Assumes that oswalt would gave signed by now if hes not a big injury risk, and that waino will not be able to pitch a ton of innings this year
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2012 1:17 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
If Westbrook feels he wants to be a starter
he should probably have acted on that feeling by not sucking in 2011.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 29, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Winner Pitcher, Game 6, 2011 World Series.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
3.58 BB, 9 innings, 2011 regular season
(I know you were being sarcastic)
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
Does anybody know Westbrook's GRiTS projection?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Shrimp, with lots of butter
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
unfortunately, those innocent baby blues
rule out a high grit quotient
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
How do you measure difference between
healthy mediocre 5th starter and better alternative with suspect health?
by setitan on Jan 29, 2012 12:00 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Folded into the playing time projection, isn't it?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't employ a six man rotation.....
But I have a gut feeling we’ll need 6 or 7 starters over the course of the season.
Carpenter is getting old, and threw a ton of innings last year.
Waino is coming back from injury, though I expect him to be fine, you never know.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Garcia missed some time this year.
Oswalt, if we sign him, is older and has some injury history.
You just never know, but I’d certainly rather have a solid 6th or 7th option available, then to just assume we won’t need them. Ideally we probably move either KMac or Westy, leaving the one not traded and Lynn as potential safety nets.
I think part of the issue with this is that we should prefer to spend less money on those #6 and #7 starters
Because their utility is such an unknown. We just don’t know for certain how useful they will be. We certainly don’t know for certain if employing an actual 6-man rotation would make us better, and it is also always up in the air just how much a team will have to rely on starting pitching depth due to normal causes (injuries, etc.). So it makes less sense, the thinking goes, to spend money on that depth when we don’t have to.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
It's normally the case that any team, even one with 5 young healthy starters, uses 6-8 guys as starters over the course of the year.
Little nicks and scrapes here and there, a guy missing a start or two, etc. Things like that are typical.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
But anomalies happen, like the '04 cards
Amd even without the anomalies, how much do you want to pay a 6th starter, especially if he’s not a minor leaguer that you can send up and down and you have to waste a roster spot on him between injuries
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 4:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yea, I'm not arguing for more starters or anything.
Just responding to this
But I have a gut feeling we’ll need 6 or 7 starters over the course of the season.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
I might be the only one amused by this,
but here are the final standings in the Australian Baseball League:
TEAM W L PCT GB Perth 34 11 .756 - Melbourne 21 24 .467 13.0 Adelaide 20 25 .444 14.0 Sydney 20 25 .444 14.0 Brisbane 20 25 .444 14.0 Canberra 20 25 .444 14.0
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 12:11 PM EST reply actions
Oi Oi Oi
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Heh
Damn those Perth Heat! If Melbourne could just get one more good bat, just one long ball hitter, we’d be able to win some games. Maybe they should look into making deals with certain evil supernatural beings…
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Then Perth promptly got their asses handed to them in the Asia Series.
0-3, outscored 4 – 17
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
It's a round-robin tourny
They played NPB Softbank Hawks, KBO Samsung Lions, and Uni-President Lions from Taiwan.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Presumably Perth are an amateur team
and all those Asian teams will be professionals. I think I’ve heard once or twice that NPB is kinda AAA-ish standard, and I’d guess Korea is just a step or so down from that, but I bet the Aussie league is like short-season ball pretty much….
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 29, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
MLB recognizes the Australian league as an official winter league.
They’re more-or-less a minor league and have a handful of players on major league 40-man rosters. But yeah, the level of competition really isn’t up to NPB or KBO levels.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
SSS.
55 games for a full season? That’s like the final standings after just April and May. Idk how they run things that way.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
If they're amateurs they can't play everyday.
Jobs and all that.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 29, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn't change the fact that the results are semi-meaningless.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
Have you ever seen how far most of those cities are from each other?
Camels can only move so fast.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 29, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
That's so WEIRD
I wonder if it has anything to do with Perth being the only west coast team. Happy flights!
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 29, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
You Oswalt yet?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
What is this question?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 12:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question
are you, or are you not Oswalt yet?
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 29, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
is you is, or is you not ... my Oswalt-ients?!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 29, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
* is you is or is you ain't . . .
/wallerese
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 2:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not Fats Waller
Louis Jordan and Billy Austin. Love Joe Jackson’s version on Jumpin’ Jive.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
something
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
by tehzachatak on Jan 29, 2012 2:01 PM EST reply actions 12 recs
woah. who was the second rec? it wasn't clankbot, nor anyone on our conversation. i'm so confused.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
either he used a second account or he rec'd it after someone else and you hadn't refreshed
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 29, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
And I don't know who it was
Someone with superior tastes in food, undoubtedly.
Still not a werewolf.
by clank on Jan 29, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
zach there are such tings as lurkers or people who rec w/o commenting
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 29, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
it was just a strange comment to rec
i was assuming it was someone who read our interchange on the sea of tweets.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
so what is the answer then?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 29, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I was.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry for leaving it a mystery.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take you at your word -- nice job!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
I'm impressed Clank got it, though he hasn't proven that he did.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
I thought as much.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
green
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
It is the PD board but...
what is the noise with Adam Jones/Oriels ?
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
It is #Developing
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jan 29, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
It's my understanding that there is no specific Adam Jones noise.
Strauss tweeted that Cardinals fans need to pay attention to the Orioles and folks are theorizing what this means.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
maybe he just thinks they are deserving of more fans ?
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
I believe any St. Louis Browns fans long ago stopped following the Orioles. And understandably so.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Why the Cards would go after Adam Jones
I don’t know. Unless they have plans to move Jay or Craig in some other trade?
I could imagine the O’s moving Jones, but he seems more like a July deadline deal.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 29, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Strauss is talking out his ass
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 29, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
It is very probable that you are correct...but lets wait and see.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
I think this was because of the ltr rumor
that he was taking a job with the o’s. Cause, you know, lots of people watch a team because of who has minor roles in the front office
by cardsfan_1986 on Jan 29, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
He's probably not actually working off of any facts, just threw a dart at a map and that was where it landed
but Jay and Westbrook for Jones? I think I’d take it, Jones is projected for a .340 wOBA by James, Jay .328. Jay does have a fairly substantial fielding advantage according to UZR/150 though, -3.4 to 4.4 in their careers.
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 29, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I realized I forgot to factor this
Prefer having Jay with Beltran also there to get starts.
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 29, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
also,,,supposedly a unicorn is to appear soon on the pd.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
so exciting!!!
joestrauss @jwills00 Check the P-D site in 60-90 minutes. 42 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/#ixzz1ksVaOP8c
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
I almost did a very bad thing with that unicorn and shaved eel cat...
I have to draw the line somewhere…
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Some background...
@MLBTalk123:
@JoeStrauss Do you have any news regarding O’s and Cards? Like any specific names or at least a clue?
@JoeStrauss:
@mlbtalk123 Yes. And yes. Thanks for asking.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
How cute.
Strauss’s original tweet was about how Cardinals fans are going to start rooting for the Orioles or something like that. Fine, so that implies one or more Cards are going to the Orioles, obviously. So, perusing the Orioles roster for ‘holes’ they need to fill (and there are many), the biggest ones (or ‘most gaping’ I guess) seem to be:
1B – was Derrek Lee in 2011
3B – was Mark Reynolds in 2011 (-28 Fielding!)
P – Guthrie and Britton, then everyone else under 120 IP
We can’t help them at 1B, and I guess Westbrook or KMac or Lohse would be an upgrade. At 3B…well, it doesn’t seem likely, but David Freese’s value will never be higher than it is right now.
Nah, can’t be Freese…can it?
Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.
Unless they want
Cox or Carpenter?
O’s have lacked a big bat at 1B for a very long time, though I don’t know how we could help them unless we send them Craig or Matt Adams?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 29, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Well...
If they were to try for Freese (or any other guy that could play third), Reynolds would move to first and be much less of a liability in the field for them.
But then who would we want in return? Jones is the name bandied about, but I’d love to have JJ Hardy (who signed an extension with the O’s in July 2011). We could move him to second, and Descalso could play third.
Okay, I’ll stop Baseball Moguling now…
Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.
Hard to field while eating sunflower seeds
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 4:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
fitting, I guess; I'm expecting a story that is 60-90% fluff and vague speculation
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
omg omg omg
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
selig thinks that the expanded WC format
will be in play this year
the only thing i’m not a fan of in this is the play-in game. it takes away the drama of what we had last year. what happened in ‘11 probably would never happen again if the current format was kept, but i’d rather have that chance than a stupid play-in game.
I don't like the second wildcard....
but it should make the division races better. I like the reward for winning a division, but it could be done with the one wildcard system as well.
I dislike any scheme that diminishes the importtance
Of regular season games. The idea that an 86-win team can beat a 90-win team in a single game playoff seems unfair and diminshes the losing team’s achievement in winning four more games in the regular season.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 3:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
completely agree
Allowing the random chance of a single game to predominate over the achievements of an entire 162 game season is nonsense.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
OTOH, it enhances the value of winning the division and not getting stuck in the WC game in the first place.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. It also gives teams a real incentive to play for the number 1 seed in the playoffs
namely for the opportunity to play against the now weakened wild card winner.
A couple of faults in your arguement.
The bullpen is considered to be used the same under both circumstances
This isn’t necessarily true.
So if you sign Roy Oswalt and play a six man rotation you are essentially paying his entire salary for a 3 run upgrade.
This is ignoring injury risk and the value of depth. How much does the analysis change if a starter misses more than a couple of starts.
Something I haven’t seen discussed, Oswalt would give us another option to use in the postseason. How much value would that provide?
Considering that Oswalt would get only ~$5M, it seems to be low risk high reward.
by _rud_ on Jan 29, 2012 3:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
your first point isn't really a fault, just an uncertainty.
Unless you’re suggesting that we can somehow know how the bullpen would be used, that uncertainty is dwarfed by the general uncertainty in assessing how oswalt will perform, how many innings he’ll throw, etc.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 3:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think you can assume that
Lance Lynn will be a 3.85 FIP replacement starting pitcher, on one hand, and assume that taking him out of the bullpen (where a 3.85 FIP starter would likely be much better than 3.85 FIP) doesn’t hurt the bullpen.
Anyway, back of the envelope calculation for one scenario (Carp is hurt in ST):
Scenario (Carp hurt in ST) runs scored Original scenario, math fixed: 416.8 No Oz, Lynn is Zambrano-ish: 434.8 No Oz, Lynn is Kyle Lohse-ish: 440.6 W/ Oz, Lynn is Zambrano-ish: 421.7 W/ Oz, Lynn is Kyle Lohse-ish: 426.9
I’ve uploaded the spreadsheet back-of-envelope here- feel free to pick it apart. I think it’s conservative, since I assumed that all of the BO5 IPs are preserved, minus carp, and gave uber-Lynn a very large number of innings (150, best case scenario). But worst-case, assuming only one SP injury (Carp) and Lynn is about the same pitcher as a starter as Kyle Lohse (I think that’s not terribly unreasonable), you could lose about 2.5 wins by not signing Oswalt.
Now, that isn’t “the answer”- in MLB, you have hundreds of independent “risks”, and since risk impact is expectation*consequence, the real world odds of carp being hurt is a huge factor. For something like this, you’d need to do a full study with a couple of hundred scenarios (carp hurt in ST, carp hurt in June, Westbrook hurt any time, AW not ready to start, AW + carp out, etc), plot a sensitivity analysis, and work out what the summed real value to the team is, from signing Oz. Gut feel, it probably really is closer to one win, but any cardinals fan who lived through 2007 should understand the “value of depth” in the pitching rotation on a visceral level.
’_rud_- welcome to VEB, and thanks for the critical thinking.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Of course, the real risk is that Lynn turns into Anthony Reyes.
in which case there’s another 1.5 wins, or so.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
The post considers both injury risk and the value of depth.
The projected IP and GS totals are based on perceived injury risk. So is the assumption that a sixth starter will make starts. The “value of depth” is what the entire post drives at. Having six starters and employing a six-man rotation is not particularly valuable in terms of run prevention compared to a five-man rotation with Oswalt.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Cardinals shopping McClellan with Orioles most likely trade partner
per Strauss:
General manager John Mozeliak recently conceded the possibility exists of a trade involving McClellan but said he believes it more likely that the Florissant native will report with Cardinals pitchers and catchers to Jupiter, FL on Feb. 18.
The Cardinals have attempted to engage a number of clubs in talks for McClellan. The Baltimore Orioles have emerged as one of the most promising trade partners for McClellan, according to industry sources, as the Cardinals are seeking little more than salary relief.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
just coming here to post this.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
makes no sense
if you get nothing, why sign him n the first place, like 2 weeks ago
unicorn on drugs?
TLR is gone, long live the king
The were stuck with McClellan
when the offered him arb. The contract signed recently was just to avoid arb. I can only surmise the Cards misjudged the market for Oswalt and his desire to play for the Cards.
misjudged something
including offering kmac a spot in the first place
like miles, he would have just been a FA
sign him then if you want him, but
outside the arb process
TLR is gone, long live the king
Hell yeah!
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
and....
whoever guessed Strauss was talkin out his arse hole is a winner!
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Eh, this seems like something in the general vicinity of news.
Also, this is the first time in a while that a local guy has been out in front of a story like this.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
AZ and SD also expressed interest.
Makes direct connection to attempt to clear salary for “the right pitcher”.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jan 29, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
For McClellan's sake, I hope he winds up with San Diego or Arizona.
If he goes to the AL East and plays his home games at Camden Yards, he is going to get shelled. In San Diego, his style stands a better chance of working. I hope he winds up in the NL West.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
as the Cardinals are seeking little more than salary relief.
THEN WHY DID WE SIGN HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE?!
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
at the time maybe they didn't think they had a chance at Oswalt
now that they do, maybe this is just a salary dump to make more room in the budget for Oswalt (I hope)
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
k-mac just shouldn't have been signed, period.
even pre-oswalt, there were better pitchers readily available in the system to take his place for a fraction of the cost. oswalt or not, it never made any sense.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
I am no longer allowed to bitch about Skip or KMac, so
mumble, mutter, mumble…
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
wut
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Translated:
I fart in your general direction, Skip and K-Mac.
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 29, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
In this scenario
it would cardinalswsbound of whom you should be asking that question.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
I wish.
would love to A) own a castle and B) be able to drink wine and eat cheese all day.
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 29, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, the fact that their shopping KMac for salary relief makes me think they'll try to sign Oswalt.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
It makes me annoyed that we signed KMac personally
as I never truly believed (until this) that salary was the real stumbling block.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 29, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yes but like the Colby trade
Even the poor moves by Mozeliak work out extremely well and had some other reason behind them. Colby trade was because TLR stomped his foot and what was originally a cost controlled CF with upside for a reliever rental, a 3/4 starter rental, and three years of a good LOOGY that should be a starter turned into a WS win and 3 sandwich picks + a good LOOGY who should be a starter. While I don’t completely agree with the Kmac deal irregardless of Oswalt, it was a depth move so that we didn’t have to bank Sanchez’s health or sacrifice a starting prospect for a swing man, because even though we know he’s a cromulent middle reliever, the organization sees him as a possible set up man, swing man, or starter. Now that Oswalt can be affordable what would have been nothing could be a c or even b prospect that McClellan brings back depending on how badly just one other team may overvalue him. Usually those prospects are nothing or at best Skiperdoodle, but sometimes they turn out to be Mikel Cleto or David Freese. Stupendous luck on bad move + several good moves = success!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 4:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The final piece to the
Oriole puzzle! Yankees watch out!
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 29, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
so this is what that tweet referenced
if you want a laugh check out the post dispatch forums, they are going insane about a fake adam jones trade. people think we are trading wainwright for jones.
strauss is a very effective troll i’ll give him that.
Now, was that so difficult Straussypants?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like this was posted Saturday
First time I’ve seen it though.
Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.
Does also say "Updated 2:13 PM", but not sure if that's today or yesterday.
Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.
from jon morosi (fox sports)
@jonmorosi Sources: #STLCards do not have a deal in place with Roy Oswalt — yet — but they are trying to clear money to make it work.
pretty much what we all expected
still annoying that we signed kmac in the first place.
if i am MO i say screw trying to get any kind of prospect out of it, seriously just give him away if someone else will pay him.
ok i misread the struass post
“seeking little more than salary relief” i read without the little more part
Seems like we'll get a C prospect or something.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
we shouldn't get a lot out of the trade
but i don’t think the cards aim was to trade kmac for a lot in return anyway
No, it isn't.
It’s to clear his $2.5MM salary.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
With the O's luck
that C prospect will win a NL MVP 2 years from now.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 29, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
And if they can get something for McClellan
rather than just having let him go when he was still fairly cost controlled, then it’s gotta go down as a brilliant move by KMac.
Well THAT is fucking seismic.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 29, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe I'm missing something
If the Strauss report and Oswalt rumors help up, we’d essentially be putting Oz in the rotation and Westbrook into the pen? How is Westbrook an improvement over KMac in the pen? (Feel free to point to numbers that I clearly have not considered if that’s the case)
Cards, Colts, and Pacers - Baseball, football, and basketball or gambling, guns, and old cars?
Held* not help
Cards, Colts, and Pacers - Baseball, football, and basketball or gambling, guns, and old cars?
westbrook has the ability to start if needed and he will be needed
a rotation with waino coming off TJ, carp coming off 300 innings or whatever, and oswalt is going to need a 6th starter atsome point in the year
seems like Lynn is at least as reliable and much, much cheaper.
Cards, Colts, and Pacers - Baseball, football, and basketball or gambling, guns, and old cars?
this.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
He is.
The Lohse and Westbrook signings are a lesson in giving good-sized salaries and multiple years to No. 4 starters.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Plus NTC's
which is the real kick in the balls of those contracts. Pay attention and learn Johnny Moz.
I guess what I'm getting at
is that Westbrook seems to me to be exactly the kind of starter that needs time to figure out his what his “best” pitch is. As mentioned above, by the time he figures that out, he’ll have cost us runs and be out of the game.
Cards, Colts, and Pacers - Baseball, football, and basketball or gambling, guns, and old cars?
It seemed to me that Westbrook actually wore out quickly in games
as opposed to starting out slow. I’m not so sure that he wouldn’t be better just throwing 2-3 innings at a time. SSS but last year he had a bit better ERA in his first two innings than he did in innings 3-5. Just not sure that I agree that he needs time to get his pitches right, necessarily.
by cardsfan_1986 on Jan 29, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
isn't westbrook just a sinkerball guy?
I mean, he’d be retired if he didn’t get a 60 percent groundball rate. Is there a mystery about what he’s going to throw? It’s not like he’s got 4 plus pitches.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 4:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No, he's a sinkerballer thick and thin
Nit being worn out might take some sink away which hurts him, but added velocity may help make it harder to center his sinker therefor making it more effective even with less sink, it’s not like his sinker doesn’t sink well as it is, it’s the low velocity and throwing it too high that hurt him
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 4:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There's more to consider than just whether Westbrook is an upgrade or lateral move compared to McClellan.
The Cardinals apparently need to clear salary to be able to afford Oswalt. Moving McClellan’s $2.5MM salary is going to be easier than moving Westbrook’s $8.5MM salary. Starters will typically see about a 0.50 ERA improvement if he moves from the rotation to the bullpen. Westbrook would likely be about as good as McCellan out of the bullpen, if not a bit better.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
And Kmac doesn't have a no-trade clause.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
That, too.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
basically going off what bgh said...
it’s a hell of a lot easier to move k-mac’s 2.whatever million (with no NTC, to boot) than it will be to move westbrook’s $8M with a NTC.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
So it's best to look at this as more of a salary move than a baseball one?
Cards, Colts, and Pacers - Baseball, football, and basketball or gambling, guns, and old cars?
Probably
Although, if it has a causal link with us signing Roy Oswalt, then I guess it’s an indirect baseball move.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I should have read your comment before posting.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
It's intrinsically linked to signing Oswalt, IMO.
So, while trading McClellan is a strict salary dump, it is a salary dump with the corresponding baseball move of signing Oswalt.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i'm going to be really frustrated if we don't get oswalt because of this.
it sounds like if the cardinals had nontendered k-mac (which should have happened regardless), oswalt would be a cardinal right now.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
oh goodness, yes.
it even says that in the article.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Westbrook isn't an improvement.
But KMac is tradeable and Westbrook isn’t.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 29, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
completely agree with this post, azru.
my buddy and i were talking about this same thing last night as he was pushing for a six man rotation and i told him he would be taking innings away from waino/carp and giving them to westy, which is just stupid. this post shows that perfectly.
also, sorry one of your least favorite tennis players won the aussie.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 3:30 PM EST reply actions
My favorite tennis player lost to him nonetheless.
I was pleased with the Azarenka win. Nice victory for her.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
it was a pretty epic match.
had i known it was still going to be going on at 7 i might have actually got out of bed. and i’ve never watched azarenka play. it shocks me that she’s the new #1 and i haven’t even watched her before.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Been coming for a while.
Her game is solid
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 29, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
Heh
My wife and I wake up at 5 these days (her schedule shifts around). Anyway, I started watching the Djokovic/Nadal match before 6. It just kept going on, it was so awesome.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Joe Strauss' twitter
To me it’s like a bad B movie. By now I should know that He si what He is…he toys and flirts with us like the kid who is in the “it” cirlce only to disapoint us after checking in repeatedly..
I would compare it to a dolph lundgren movie..you know so rediculous but you just can’t turn it off..I used to stay up late on I think Thursdays a while back when theyd do B action movie nights and Usa as well.
Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman
Like "Showdown In Little Tokyo"???
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
i wopuld even throw in
Lone wolf Mquaid with Norris…just really bad, but funny to watch especially when hes burried alive in his truck and drinks a beer then drives it out
Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman
Never seen that one but sounds awesome
Aaaand I just imdb’d it, it looks awesome (and actually I might have seen part of it on TV ages ago as a kid, not sure). Anyway, Norris and Carradine, and some guy named Robert Beltran playing a character named “Kayo”??? Now I have to see this.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I loved that movie
I thought it was hilarious, and when (young) Robert Beltran appeared I was thinking..holy shit, Chakotay. It’s streaming on Netflix if you have that.
Whoa, that's who that is???
Awesomer and awesomer.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
It's a terrible movie
But hey, David Carridine!
by mattyfrommo on Jan 29, 2012 4:16 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I hereby resign my spot in the David Carradine fanclub
by mattyfrommo on Jan 29, 2012 4:17 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Robert Beltran is awesome
he played Raoul in Eating Raoul, he was Chakotay in Star Trek: Voyager, and he was in one of the funniest little sci-fi films, Night of the Comet.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
I no longer am ashamed to say
that once I gave Voyager a chance, I really did like a lot of what they did. Never watched the whole show or anything, but I started tuning into re-runs here and there some years ago and I enjoyed a lot of the episodes I saw. Some neat storylines. The Year Of Hell was memorable.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
his lead ins
like the tweet with the cards and baltimore are terrible. just say what it is without making us wait for 2 hours or whatever it is.
thats where the B movie analogy comes in
just interesting enough to keep you watching, then a let down..like for instance if the Tag about Cards O’s was that one of the Cardinals broadcast staff or soemthing was the one leaving and it had nothing to do with players at all…we’d all be like really??
Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman
you have never heard of B movies?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_movie
like there was Universal soldier one which was pretty good..two was ok, now there are 3 or 4..
Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman
the only thing i've heard/seen with a b movie mention
is a delbert mcclinton song (b movie boxcar blues)
Another classic
I once saw it written that Conan: The Barbarian (the original) was the greatest B movie of all time.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I'm not sure if Big Trouble in Little China is an actual B movie, a parody of B movies, or both
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
It had Kurt Russell in it! John Carpenter directed it!
I would consider it a parody of B movies – it’s definitely not a “real” B movie.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I just wasn't really sure about the budget, stuff like that
Theoretically couldn’t a “real” actor appear in a B movie?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
i think so, i liken it to when
they make bad decisions and make sequels or whatever..
Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman
Or maybe they just get to a point in their career
when, if they believe in the artistic merit of a certain project, they agree to do it for money.
(I stole that from George Burns)
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I think Joe Strauss twitter is like a really hot transvestite
It looks appealing from afar, but when you look underneath the surface it has a penis.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Eh, I'm not sure Straussicorn has one
Zing!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 4:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't want to offend any transvestites
who may be vivaelbirdos.com readers by comparing Strauss to them.
He blocked me yesterday
I’ll move on, somehow
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 29, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
for shits and giggles...
we prolly have the depth at the major league and minor league levels to trade for Adam Jones.
Jay, Craig, Kmac, Cox for Jones and a few more from the O’s..
don’t know what the O’s would do with cox…(insert joke here ….or …ahem… cox ?)
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
I don't really want Adam Jones.
Jay is as good as him and under team control longer.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I should have read your comment before posting
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Better name material to work with too
I can’t wait to see the first “All Rise!” of the 2012 season..come on spring, hurry up.
when he connects, Jones has a hell of a lot more power than Jay
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Interesting to think about
This is more of a tangential question, so apologies in advance for thread-jacking, but would anybody want Adam Jones to begin with? He seems about as good as Jon Jay, he just does it in a different way.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I suppose one could argue that Jay is more or less maxed out potential-wise, but Jones has room for improvement and is already about as good as Jay
Still, it would seem like a move that is more trouble than it’s worth, to me.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Adam Jones isn't any better than Jay - why would we do this?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Because OMG Adam Jones!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Soooo.....
…having 3 starting outfielders slugging at least .450 – .500 doesn’t interest you? Adam Jones has a lot moore pop than Jay, and while their overall WAR is about the same Jones is held back by his D – which he may be young enough to fix, especially in a new park. I like Jay, but I think he’s pretty much maxed out.
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
Plus the side-cowllateral of
…replacing KMac with Oswalt, if the whole point is to free up room for Oswalt. Of course, I’d feel a whole lot better about all this if I thought Adron Chambers was going to be the next Jon Jay, and was on the roster instead of Skip…
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
Jones really doesn't interest me
Minor upgrade over Jay and probably overpriced in prospect costs.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jan 29, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather have each of those players you mentioned besides Kmac.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Probably nexdef'd above but I'm not reading all that.
Jon Morosi @jonmorosi
Sources: #STLCards do not have a deal in place with Roy Oswalt — yet — but they are trying to clear money to make it work.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Why would we need to move salary to make it work? Just open up DeWallet!
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
one note
Projecting a 5-man rotation to pitch significantly more innings than a 6-man rotation seems wrong. One of the benefits of a 6-man rotation is the ability to have your starters go deeper into games.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 29, 2012 4:16 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Hmm..
Going by something azru mentioned in the post, there seems to be evidence that pitch counts in a game are more important than total innings pitched. Would the coaching staff alter their decisions on when to pull a starter based on the amount of people in the rotation, or would it stay the same?
Could the NPB work as an example to see if pitchers pitch deeper into games?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
If we go into the season with Lohse as our #5, WB as the 6, Lynn as the 7, and Miller as the 8....
I’ll be a happy Cards’ fan. That’s the deepest rotation we’ve had in a long time.
Sign Roy O
Rzep as the 9, Cleto as the 10, Dickson as the 11
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
are you saying our rotation depth goes up to 11?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 4:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I could argue it goes to infinity if every pitcher we had gets hurt, but I doubt many pitchers including Rzep and Cleto will
be asked to start over trading for another pitcher.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
haha its so blatant
jonmorosi Jon Morosi
Kyle McClellan will make $2.5M this year. That is roughly the amount by which Roy Oswalt wants #STLCards to up their offer.
turns out oswalt doesn't even want the money.
Just wants kyle off the team.
Oh, man, that’s hateful!
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 4:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What did KMac ever do to him?
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 29, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
It's a favor Oswalt's doing for bgh.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
there's some prime Iowan property ripe for bulldozing in it for roy.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 4:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lots of big bucks in southern Iowa...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Cam he ask for a bit more?
What does Skip make?
by mattyfrommo on Jan 29, 2012 5:18 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Oswalt thinks McClellan
is the descendant of a union civil war general or least didn’t want to look at the name McClellan taped over a locker room stall before and after each game.
RESPECT
sacrifice one of your homegrown and I will be your SP.
by RasmustheRipper on Jan 29, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
https://twitter.com/#!/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/163737108828266496
JIM BOWDEN
Source: Cardinals continue to work on a deal with Orioles which would result in enough payroll flexibility to sign Roy Oswalt…stay tuned
Never should've offered arb...
I was a proponent at the time b/c I thought he’d have trade value. Now it’s just getting in the way.
Sign Roy O
Take the Oswalt, drop the KMac
Stop busting Mo’s balls, DeWitt! Just give him the cash to do the deal. We can sort out the particulars later.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 29, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Oooooo
Trade skip mcclellan.
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2012 9:02 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/statuses/163738831395364864
#STLCards discussed deals with Oswalt in $7.5M range. Roy wants $10M. Hence desire to move McClellan. He makes – you guessed it – $2.5M.
i'm not too sure that $10MM is still a good deal
we’re talking about likely <2 WAR upgrade over westbrook. if westbrook’s salary could be moved, that’s another story, but i doubt that happens
keep in mind that the average dollar per WAR figures
do not factor in the player actually being replaced. More often than not that player is above replacement level. So the dollar per WAR is going to be deflated.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
but we're getting to the point where we're paying $18MM for a starter and a reliever
likely to total around 3 WAR. it’s not a huge overpay, but it’s not a bargain like it was at $5MM
Westbrook is a sunk cost, so I don't know why we're talking about his salary
We’d be paying 10 million for a 1.5 win upgrade. Which is probably about market value. When you consider our position on the playoff curve, those wins are very important.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
he's likely worth close to or equal his salary as a starter.
move him to the bullpen and his value drops significantly. i know it’s your job to disagree with everything i say, but the numbers are the numbers and $10MM is not market value for 1.5 WAR
Yeah, see you apparently didn't read my post above
Because the “market value” that you’re talking about (5 million per WAR) is not calculated based on how much of an upgrade that player is. It’s calculated based on how much WAR that player projects to have.
Case in point, Rafael Furcal is likely a 1 WAR upgrade over Tyler Greene at short. But his 8 million dollar salary is still a bargain because you’re not paying for the upgrade, your paying for the player.
Oswalt projects to be a 3 WAR pitcher, so 10 million is absolutely a bargain in that respect. I’m not sure if the upgrade over Westbrook is smaller or larger than the average upgrade in free agency. But the average player being replaced is definitely not replacement level.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
all right
i still have the opinion i expressed here, but i don’t really have any desire to discuss it with you. i think that $10MM makes this less clearly a bargain considering the construction of the team. my supporting claims are above
I agree that it's less of a bargain at 10 mil vs. 5 mil
that’s obvious. As to your point about the 1.5 WAR upgrade, that’s fine if you look at it that way, but then you can’t use “market value”, because that is calculated with the assumption that every player being replaced is replacement level. And that’s definitely not true.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
That's starting to sound a bit pricey, yeah.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
does it really matter though?
we’re not going to have any other place to use that money this season.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
It all really boils down to the "it's not my money" argument.
Like pj said below, it’s no longer a clear bargain. If management is OK with it, then who am I to tell them no?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
It's not a bargain... but it's not a rip off either.
Not sure what else we would do with the money anyway. With a division that looks to be this close I would much rather pay the 10mil to help us get the division title instead of the wild card
by cardsfan_1986 on Jan 29, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, I dont want Roy unless we can move Westy
Either. Its just not enough of an upgrade. I think the FO probably thought Kmac would have more trade value than he actually does…may have thought they had a deal made with Roy while banking in the fact they could just turn around and flip Kmac to someone and know they are realizing that may not be so easy without eating some of his salary.
by mick311 on Jan 29, 2012 4:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Trading Westbrook partially defeats the purpose of signing Oswalt...
which is to add depth. Oswalt is a 2 win upgrade over Westbrook, but Westbrook will get starts when someone else goes down. If WB is traded, then Lynn gets those starts, which is fine, but that shorts us a high leverage reliever. The biggest problem is that it brings Dickson very close to being a regular starter – just two injuries away.
Sign Roy O
I think the backup SP competition is going to be strong this year
because after the Super 2 deadline, I think Miller becomes a strong option. Besides him, there is alternate depth as well. That is not to say that Dickson won’t get a shot (or that Westbrook isn’t better than some of the options), but we have have a pretty good variety of options to try before Randy Keisler.
by RasmustheRipper on Jan 29, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
I guess...
But my argument is that if signing Oswalt is just to add depth, than $10m seems way too high.
by mick311 on Jan 29, 2012 5:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oswalt
has been sketchy the last few years, but at times he is still Roy. I’d rather give him the ball in a 7 game than Westy…Stats aside I just know that if both give their best I’d still go with Roy…but thats a lot of money
Rzepczynski tough name to say, tough sinker to hit-Lance Berkman
The Cards should just give him $8 million and a new bulldozer
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 29, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
only if he agrees to grab another live electric wire
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Is this the part where I get to say "I told you so"
to all the people who claim that contracts like Skip Schumaker or Kyle McClellan don’t matter? Or how about to the people who said that DeWitt would just spend more money to make it happen because the Cardinals don’t have a salary ceiling?
I just want to know how we are keeping score.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
by azruavatar on Jan 29, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I feel like
They had no intention initially to sign Oswalt. Now because of peer pressure they are stuck in a messy situation
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 29, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
meh.
however, they still never should have signed k-mac in the first place. and now the signing might end up costing them oswalt, who is a 1-2 win upgrade next year. and those are some big wins we’re talking about.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
In a vacuum, the KMac signing was lousy.
Just how damaging it might be is now thrown into sharp relief.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, it's azru's fault
Mo wandered over here one day, saw all the hatred from our fearless robot leader, and said, “Oh. Well, maybe I can make things up to him by trying to bring Oswalt in, anyway. It’ll be a helluva job convincing Bill to shell out another $5-10 million, and it may wind up making us look like fools, but anything to appease azruavatar.”
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
who has said signing that dead weight didn't matter?
of course it matters!
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Jay & Dirty D make Skippy obsolete don't they?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
there were several people saying "meh, he's the 25th
Or 24th player on the team."
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 9:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
morans, the lot of them
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
The Cardinals are spending more money than their salary ceiling
Even if they trade KMac, Oswalt will bump salary up to 117 million, which is well above the 110 million you were saying was the hard ceiling for earlier.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 30, 2012 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
do you think if Oswalt signs, Lohse or Westbrook may be more willing to waive their no trade....
nothing like going into a contract year and being a mop up reliever….
In teams of getting a decent payday in 2013 and beyond….
Starting for San Diego in 2012 > mop up role for the Cardinals in 2012
No?
I'm sure they probably would be but
I don’t know that the FO wants to take the risk without knowing for sure first.
by mick311 on Jan 29, 2012 4:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This song is everything that is wrong with modern hip hop
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 29, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
It's a bit overproduced
and I think the beats are too loose for the modern rap scene.
But what do I know.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
agreed on both
vocals are too low in the mix too, and this comes from someone who tends to like that- it doesn’t work with this kind of production. i will make no comment on the lyrics, but his flow, at least for most of this song, is waaaaay too sloppy. it’s just someone reciting words. there’s a couple bars that make it sound like he’s got the talent to sound better though. it does certainly sound like he could rap with some velocity if he wanted to, at least.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
Here are the ZIPS projections
Westbrook: 4.52 ERA, 4.26 FIP, 4.40 average
Oswalt: 3.68 ERA, 3.61 FIP, 3.65 average
Over 140 innings, that’s a 1.3 WAR upgrade. Over 180 innings that’s a 2 WAR upgrade. So that’s the range we’re looking at.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
No
read my comment above in reply to pj.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
I thought we had to pay 10 million?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry I'm being confusing...
presumbly we’d keep KMac if we didn’t sign Oswalt, which would cost $2.5M. So Oswalt is $7.5M more to the budget.
Sign Roy O
right
and kmac’s pretty much replacement level and he’s definitely worse than sanchez, so we wouldn’t be losing any value.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Oswalt has a bad back, but he's still a hell of a lot better than KMak, Bubbles & Westy
what have we learned Mo? don’t sign shitty pitchers! and especially don’t sign shitty pitchers no one else wants when you need to dump their sucky asses when you’re trying to sing a good pitcher you dumbass
learn it
love it
live it
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Any word on Adam Reifer's recovery? He'd be someone that makes Boggs expendable IMO.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Trade Mitchell Boggs!!! for something of value!!!
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Boggs is def expendable.
We are already going to prob see Sanchez start the year in Memphis….we have plenty of depth for the bullpen IMO:
Sanchez
Cleto
Reifer
Swaggerty
Kelly
Ottavino
by mick311 on Jan 29, 2012 5:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If I'm not mistaken, Boggs will enter arbitration next year.
At which point, he becomes as expendable as McClellan is this year. No need to pay replacement-level relievers more than $500K.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I disagree with that
He got used even less than KMac at the end of the year. He didn’t get used for nearly a month at the end of the season. His location problems are pretty bad.
I did however like it when Boggs finally got put in for an inning and he was visibly pissed while he pitched. He mowed down the guys he saw that inning. Give me that Boggs but not the regular, throw the ball in the dirt 6 feet in front of the plate Boggs.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jan 30, 2012 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
OT: Why do people have to tarnish my memory of Dr. Mario
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. - George Carlin
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jan 29, 2012 6:11 PM EST reply actions
Well, you know he is Italian
horny bastards
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 29, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
At the risk of a nexdef or that you no longer care, the movie Jungle King is available to Comcast cable subscribers as one of their free movies.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 29, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
ha, it's on youtube as well
I watched it the other day.
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. - George Carlin
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jan 29, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah. Forgot about sticky puck thing.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 6:12 PM EST reply actions
can't watch it.
nbc sports network is on the “premium” sports package on my cable. stupidest thing i’ve ever heard.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently they're just trading goals.
Elliot in now.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
i hate all star games that aren't mlb's. so it's fine.
the fact that i’m actually going to watch the pro bowl tonight disgusts me.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
So you'll be drinking while the Pro Bowl contributes to the background noise?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
well i mean it is a sunday night and i don't usually drink on su--WHAT A GREAT IDEA
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
2 against him already.
These goalies really have no chance.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
4 now.
There beating him like a rented goalie!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
is it officially called NBC sports now?
that’s why i couldn’t find Versus, huh.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
yeah, since the first of the year
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
The Blue Jackets get to host the next one?
Bah. The Blues haven’t had it since 88. The new arena hasn’t had one at all.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
fucking columbus?
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 29, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
...
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/cardinals-shopping-kyle-mcclellan.html
I love the part about the Cards’ asking price for Kmac being “too high.”
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 6:24 PM EST reply actions
"Yeah, I don't think we can really do a bag of balls"
“How about just one?”
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
The guy who got traded for a bag of balls in the minors
went on to kill himself or OD. Pretty much the same thing either way.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jan 30, 2012 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
This is true, of course,
but KMac’s value has to be miniscule at this point. Everyone knows the Cards are trying to unload him to get Oswalt. They have less leverage to pull off a trade than they did even a week or two ago. But Mo has surprised me before.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, sure. I just mean I can imagine the situation going downhill quickly.
Mo: I’ll take Dylan Bundy.
Duquette: Fuck off.
Mo: Ok, Schoop then, I guess.
Duquette: No way. Get lost.
Mo: How about Bundy’s older brother?
Duquette: No, dumbass.
Mo: Jesus, this is tough. How about Matusz? Is he still alive?
Duquette: Ok, I’ll give you Matusz’s corpse. And you pay $1MM of McClellan’s salary…
Mo: Thank you.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather have Matusz over Oswalt anyways.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Matusz is actually dead. We can only have his corpse.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
If Dunc were still here
I’d bet he could do something interesting with that corpse.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I am so excited to play as this Cards team in MLB 12 The Show.
We seem to always be underrated, but think it will be remedied this year.
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 29, 2012 7:08 PM EST reply actions
how much was 1 war worth in dollars this year?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
in FA dollars or dollars generally?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
I believe this whole thing with KMac's salary and Oswalt
is what’s known as a “teachable moment” for Mo.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Think he should walk away?
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 29, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Don't tender contracts to worthless players unless you're sure you can offload them on a dime...
Sign Roy O
10¢ on the dollar?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
he could still unload kmac for $800K if he cuts him in ST.
GM’s never do that, but it’s an option.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
isn't that considered majorly bad etiquette or something?
i remember learning about this and being absolutely stunned it didn’t happen more often.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
it's funny, since
from a game theory perspective, GM’s could gain a large amount of leverage by doing things like this on a regular basis, since it would strongly incentivize players to sign long-term deals to buy out arb years.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
iirc, kmac is the cardinals union rep as well
so would that make it doubly awkward?
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Jan 29, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
always hard, choosing a new union rep
after the last guy was released with 45 days pay, in full accordance with rules the player’s union agreed to.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
only if k-mac is well-liked personally.
If I were a starting pitcher and I realized I could either have kyle or eduardo sanchez taking over the sixth or the seventh from me, I’d be calling the orioles myself to see what they needed.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 9:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2012 9:04 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
now, mlb trade rumors says the orioles are looking
At bringing uehara back, which would require a trade from the rangers.
The rangers are also in on oswalt. And the cards need to move k-mac to afford oswalt. A trade for uehara would kill the demand for k-mac. Could get interesting.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 7:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yeah, well..
the St. Louis Cardinals still won the 2011 World Series!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 29, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Got it
Kinsler and Profar to Cards
K-Mac to Rangers
Uehara to Orioles
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 29, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
I love how these jokes never get old.
Mix and match our crap players with the other team’s best player at our positions of need … and … PRESTO! Always funny.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
Funny, or secret desires?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 29, 2012 10:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Secret desires.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Hey
It works on MLB 11. How else do you think I ended up with an infield of Brett Lawrie, Dee Gordon, Kolten Wong, and…. Well Adam LaRoche but still!
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 29, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
rangers are supposed to be meeting with oswalt tomorrow too
god its going to be… exasperating… if we lose out on oswalt because we just had to sign friggin kmac
At least they can't...
wait for it….Cox-block us!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
david freese tweets that matt holliday is flying
Kolten wong, ryan jackson, tilson, and matt adams in for a week “to hit and hang”
Holliday knows who’s going to be on the field with him two, three, four, five years from now.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 7:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions
presumably, batting practice.
“Now, matt, we’re going to practice now swinging. Okay? So, no matter what, I don’t want you to swing at this pitch. . . . No, you swung that time. Let’s try it again, and I want you to focus on not moving the bat, your hands, or your arms. . . . Now, can you tell me what went wrong there. . . . That’s right, you swung.”
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 7:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
*not swinging
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 7:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
that sounds like the reverse of any conversation with Matt Carpenter
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
Is that like
a coors and a shot?
or
farmers fetus?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Jan 29, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Radio commercial for FarmersFeedUs.org read by Holliday.
Sounds like he’s saying Farmers Fetus.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
what? really?
go listen to Matt Holliday say “Farmers Feed Us”. i’m sure it’s on YouTube somewhere.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
I haven't found it just yet
but I did find a “Who would win in a fight between Matt Holliday and Satan?” thread.
Still not a werewolf.
did anyone else notice that they changed the domain name for that organization last year?
I doubt it was a coincidence.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
is that like coors and a shot?
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. - George Carlin
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jan 29, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
ah damn nexdef'd
i should really read closer
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. - George Carlin
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jan 29, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
He also knows how not to offend David Freese.
He didn’t invite Zack Cox…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Or Matt Carpenter.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
They'll be in the next group
after this group leaves.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Matt Holiday rocks my socks off.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
he's married young lady
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
WHEN DID I GET MARRIED??
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
CG, I mean
She can’t cheat on David with Matt (ala John Terry) because it will hurt our chances at repeating
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 29, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
oh well yes then, we must keep peace within the clubhouse at all cost
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Oscar Taveras is PISSED.
“Tilson was just drafted! I hit over .380 last year! WTF?!?!?!?”
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
This is probably a language barrier thing
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
That actually occurred to me.
Here:
“¡Tilson fue redactado sólo! ¡Golpeé más de 0,380 el año pasado! ¡¿Que la foca?!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
I would think Holliday would be a good teacher for Taveras....
Holliday has one of the most violent swings in baseball.
Haven’t seen Taveras yet but I hear he has a pretty violent swing.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Taveras is competition for a corner OF spot.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Not really.
He’s going to play RF if/when he comes up.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Allen Craig will have already cement his position in the lineup by then when he hits .300/.380/.500 every year.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I'm thinking he might play 1B if Matt Adams fails.
Until we see how he does at AAA, I’ll remain nervous.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 29, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
if he fails I'd like to sign Votto.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Lucky World Series all the time?
I think I like that too!
by RasmustheRipper on Jan 30, 2012 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 30, 2012 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
Moneyball was a horribly boring movie
and one of the worst scripts I’ve seen Aaron Sorkin associated with.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Still debating on whether i should invest the time
I suppose i will eventually
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2012 9:06 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
it's pretty good
azru is just compensating for his bad taste in music by being a movie snob
by prophetjohn on Jan 29, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I liked it as a character study.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 29, 2012 9:09 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I was surprised at how it portrayed Beane.
But I’m not sure I found it fulfilling in it’s exploration of his character.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
I liked it
But maybe that’s because I wasn’t expecting a documentary on sabremetrics
by Cheeseballs on Jan 29, 2012 9:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
good thing Pitt is so sexy that it don't matter what's coming out of his mouth
amiright ladies?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
shahsparshahtotahperahwankalbloo.
/pikey
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 29, 2012 9:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
that was such a great movie
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Nah, I liked it
Your opinion is wrong
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Jan 29, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought the dialogue was borderline childish throughout the film.
They never resolved the Art Howe situation in a satisfying fashion to me. (I suppose the Hatteberg PH appearance was supposed to do so but it felt cheap and half-hearted.)
And the pacing was awful. For someone who has disagreed with me about movies before because of pacing, I can’t understand how you liked Moneyball.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
But Brad Pitt!
And Jonah Hill!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
The Art Howe situation was weak.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 30, 2012 2:07 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
In the past two days I've seen Driver and Moneyball
Maube not so easy to compare the two, but I much preferred Driver. Ok, mostly for the soundtrack. An also being really, really awesome. Wish I had seen it on the big screen.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Jan 29, 2012 10:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Driver or Drive?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
At the end of Skip's deal, he'll have played on the Cardinals for 9 seasons
And won 4 World Series. He’ll be a true Cardinal, unlike that choker Mark McGwire
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 29, 2012 10:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
real winnar
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
a scrappy baseball player.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
the ghost of bo hart will be proud
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
I agree
I look forward to Sundays (for the post) almost as much as I look forward to Wednesdays (for rb’s twisted humor, insight, and self-deprecation as much as the inevitable huge move right after he posts)
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Jan 29, 2012 11:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
RB's taught me all I know about romancing toasters.
Still not a werewolf.
by clank on Jan 29, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
his knowledge about tomatoes saved my life
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
why no comment more
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2012 11:27 PM EST reply actions
maaaan, applying for a job you really REALLY want is super scary
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
i don't know when this happened but
I LOVE IT
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
good luck!
o/
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
\o thanks, i already got to the second round
now I REALLY WANT IT
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
i was wondering why i hadn't heard back from you
what job are you trying to get?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
you haven't heard from me because i've been between doctors and my office the last two weeks
super sick
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
sorry, i should have said something
i just came so sudden
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
gdm is helping me find a car
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
no worries, i know you're dreading it which is why i asked, hope you feel better
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
sounds super serious.
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
If they break up, it could tear VEB apart
Everyone will pick sides, and then we’ll have to have two Cardinals SBN blogs
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 30, 2012 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
however......
twice the analysis!!!?
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
by pattimagee on Jan 30, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
TWO VEB BLOGS!!! WOOOOO!!!!
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
by CodyG on Jan 30, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
IT'LL BE JUST LIKE BOTH FAMILY CHRISTMASES
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 30, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
(cough) sb nation st louis (cough)
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
If you get SBN St. Louis in the breakup I might never visit.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
She gets you every other weekend
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 30, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
she can have full custody of Cody, i won't fight her on that
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
by gdm426 on Jan 30, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He needs to have his father in his life
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 30, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
I AM NOT THE BABY DADDY
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Someone here is
If it’s not you, then who is it?
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 30, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
fritz is always whipping it out, i'd start with him
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
well, sure
but if there’s no tiny bow it rules him out
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
he hasn't won first prize
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
I'm pretty sure it wasn't me
Fink?
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 30, 2012 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
not CodyG, not VEP
Fink, can you honestly say you’ve fathered none of the VEB posters?
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 30, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
we were waiting for you to come back from class and she said "hey we should have a water baloon fight"
we got all wet from the water baloons and she was like “ooh I’m cold, let’s take off all our clothes, get under the covers to warm up” then you got back from your class and misheard her, when she said " wow that is big" she meant my collection of pokemon cards.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
well dang, I was hoping it wouldn't be recognized.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I thought about letting it go
but I figured Rui would come by at some point, and say, “HOW DID NO ONE GET THIS” or similar.
Still not a werewolf.
this account is useless in my hands
if I were less wise, I’d give you the password.
Still a werewolf.
I'm the most responsible person on this board!!
My resume includes being batman, and being the most powerful vice president ever.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
The Towels don't disperse themselves now
do they????
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
i can see why you would think that considering the wording of her last sentence
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
haha, missing a t has never been more uncomfortable
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
it paints me in a positive light so i'm good with it hahaha
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
Yes, this.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 30, 2012 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
MLB Fan Cave, eh?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Jan 30, 2012 12:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
just finished moneyball
regardless of it’s authenticity, I really enjoyed it.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
the book or the movie?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
by CodyG on Jan 29, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the book is so much better
even without brad pitt
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
does the book mention the big three?
because that was completely skimmed over by the movie as part of there run.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
Of course the book has way more detail than the movie
but Hudson, Mulder and Zito get pretty well glossed over. Mulder is mentioned exactly twice in a 280 page book. Stiil, I found both the book and movie to be enjoyable.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 30, 2012 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
i found the writing style a little too breezy
but it’s enjoyable as creative non-fiction.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I agree
the book, probably better than anything, encapsulates how I approach baseball. It tells the story of a baseball revolution into the sabermetric age, led by a guy whose baseball failures seemed to be almost entirely related to personal, emotional character. It’s the perfect analogy for how I view baseball: a game, that can be distilled into mathematical science, but can never be uncoupled from the human aspect that has attended it from its beginnings.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
So I converted to new FB today
It sucks, but this is my Cover Photo
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 30, 2012 12:02 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
si_mlb tweets:
Report: Rangers scheduled to meet with Oswalt
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
nexdef'd
by about half a day
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 30, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
I heard yesterday it was supposed to be tomorrow
Cards are also trying to pawn of KMac to free salary for Royo, if you haven’t heard
SIGN ROYO
by Notorious PSC on Jan 30, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
anyone know anything about signal boosting a rooftop antenna for a dtv converter box?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
if not for your wine knowledge & Johnny Blue taste testing you'd be useless to me
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
i don't know what noy is, is that like soy?
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
you spelled bacon doughnut wrong
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
word from the wise: coming in hungover (or still drunk) on Monday
gives you a low bar to top for the work week. By Wednesday your semi-adequate work will seem super-human to your boss. Just a tip. I do what I can.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
I also have no idea... maybe install the apk file from a memory card?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
wait. my wife does. if she downloaded it on to her asus prime, could i somehow transfer it?
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I'll be honest that I have no idea if that would work.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
and just googling it showed that you asked for the apk file on google plus 12 days ago
consider rooting, it’s not as intimidating as you think (at least my experience with my phone), and you can always go back to the factory settings.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I have always assumed I'm going to root my phone
but it is intimidating
by RasmustheRipper on Jan 30, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
rooting sounds like something sexual
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
it is, haven't you been paying attention dude?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
i am so behind with you kids & your sex lingo it's hard to keep up
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
that's the only thing hard to keep up.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
that's the only thing hard to keep up.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
not with the help of these little blue pills
There is no greater sorrow than to recall in misery the time when we were happy
dulls the pain of the soul
for a night…. for some men…. hopefully over the age of 40
by RasmustheRipper on Jan 30, 2012 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
why do it if you have no reason to
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 31, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Since I'm bored, I'll share with you the breaking bad comics
http://breaking-bad-comics.tumblr.com/
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Three great men: a King, a Priest, and a Rich man.
Between them stands a common sellsword. Each great man bids the sellsword, kill the other two. Who lives, and who dies?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOzXsqoJhtE&feature=player_embedded
SIGN ROYO
Whoever lives we need his Broadsword
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu-RFt-3zg8
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 30, 2012 2:11 AM EST up reply actions
*will
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 30, 2012 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
So the King says, "need the broad? I hardly knew her!"
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
So looking forward to the new season
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 30, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Good night, well I guess it was already implied after an hour of not commenting.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
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