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Around SBN: Baseball Unveils The "Sam Fuld Rule"

Prince Fielder, Jeff Francis, and January's transactions

This guy signed a contract too.

I don't think anything can express how weird Prince Fielder's free agency experience was quite as well as the company he kept in free agency—the last few days have seen Fielder's nine-year, $214 million deal, which was not a great idea; Francisco Cordero's one-year, $4.5 million deal with the Blue Jays, which, okay, I guess; and Jeff Francis's minor-league deal with the Cincinnati Reds, which, sure.

For my own sake as much as yours and Prince Fielder's (I'm sure it will make a nice keepsake), here's some of what you've missed if your 2012 baseball senses haven't quite kicked in.

January 1: The Toronto Blue Jays trade Daniel Webb and Myles Jaye to the Chicago White Sox for Jason Frasor.

The Blue Jays grabbed ex-shortstop Sergio Santos in December, got Cordero a few days ago, and completed their all-name-brand bullpen by reacquiring Jason Frasor, who'd been floating around near the top of their bullpen since 2004, who was ballast in one of the interlocking Edwin Jackson trades.

Final deal for the Blue Jays: Zach Stewart, Octavio Dotel, Marc Rzepczynski, Daniel Webb, Myles Jaye [which can't possibly be spelled right, can it?] and Jason Frasor for Colby Rasmus, Mark Teahen, Trever Miller, Brian Tallet, P.J. Walters, and Jason Frasor.

January 3: The Baltimore Orioles purchase Jai Miller from the Oakland Athletics.

How poor could the A's possibly be, that they're pawning minor league outfielders off on the Orioles? You don't see a lot of players bought and sold anymore, so I'm going to assume the A's simply put Jai Miller in a prepaid Cash 4 Outfielders envelope, dropped him in the mailbox, and hoped for the best.

Star-divide

Miller is a fifth outfielder who might really be a fourth outfielder, but he's at least a fun one—last year, at 26, he hit .276/.368/.588 in the PCL while stealing 16 bases in 16 attempts and striking out 179 times in 410 at-bats. That's far and away the best season of his career, and entirely unfathomable in the major leagues, but the Athletics have already traded away all the veterans—now they're selling the minor league veterans?

January 3-4: The Texas Rangers sign Brad Nelson and Brandon Snyder; the Los Angeles Dodgers sign Josh Fields; the Arizona Diamondbacks sign Mike Jacobs.

In case you were wondering where all the highly touted slugging prospects of 2004 were.

January 4: The Chicago Cubs sign Joe Mather.

Single tear.

The Florida Marlins sign Chad Gaudin.

Double tear.

January 5: The Chicago Cubs trade Carlos Zambrano to the Florida Marlins for Carlos Zambrano.

I've been getting a little antsy about baseball season lately, and I think part of that might be because the other NL Central teams have been relatively active—the Cardinals, by comparison, have seemed done for a while. The Zambrano trade makes perfect sense for the Cubs, though it's terrible that things got so bad that it does—Zambrano only makes sense for a team without a lot of money and resources that wants to compete, and that's not the Cubs.

January 6: The Chicago Cubs trade Andrew Cashner and Kyung-Min Na for Zach Cates and Anthony Rizzo.

This just made me antsy because, so far as I can tell, the Cubs stole a great first baseman for a pitching prospect with shoulder problems.

January 9: The St. Louis Cardinals sign Koyie Hill.

Of course the Cardinals weren't done after all.

The New York Mets sign Sean Kazmar.

They proceeded to trade him straight-up for Schmictor Schmambrano.

January 10: The Chicago Cubs sign Paul Maholm for one year, $4.75 million with a team option.

Last year I was somehow convinced that Jake Westbrook at two years with a team option was kind of a bargain.

January 16: The Oakland Athletics trade Guillermo Moscoso and Josh Outman to the Colorado Rockies for Seth Smith.

This is the team that got Daric Barton, Dan Haren, and Kiko Calero for two years of Mark Mulder.

January 20: The Baltimore Orioles sign Dennys Reyes.

Reyes, in addition to being a former Cardinal, is one of the last active pitchers to have given up one of Mark McGwire's 70 home runs in 1998—on a quick scan of the list, all I see are Reyes (60), Kevin Millwood (15), Livan Hernandez (16, 56), and Carl Pavano (70.)

January 21: The Cleveland Indians sign Julio Lugo.

The Boston Red Sox trade Marco Scutaro for Clayton Mortensen.

Last year Mortensen had a 9.42 ERA in 15 PCL starts. (Shane Peterson had a nice little year, though!)

January 23: The Oakland Athletics sign Bartolo Colon.

I know the Cardinals must like Kyle McClellan, and I can understand wanting him back on the team, but last year Colon struck out 7.4 batters per nine innings and qualified for the ERA title with an ERA+ of 111. He was a genuine free agent and he cost the Athletics $2 million.

The Toronto Blue Jays sign Omar Vizquel.

Omar Vizquel will be 45 next year. He was signed out of Venezuela the same year Michael Jordan was drafted; if Ozzie Smith had stuck around as long as Vizquel has, he probably would have gone to Spring Training with Albert Pujols.

January 18: The Colorado Rockies sign Jamie Moyer.

Okay, okay. Jamie Moyer is just a year older than Michael Jordan. He was the ninth-oldest player in the American League in 2001.

Should Moyer make a Major League appearance in 2012, we'll remain seven Oldest Players removed from the beginning of time. When he was a rookie in 1986, the oldest player in baseball was Phil Niekro. When Niekro was a rookie in 1964, it was Warren Spahn. Spahn, in 1942, causes a setback in Joe Heving, who got a late start and only goes back to 1930, but it's okay because Heving gets us Jack Quinn, who was a rookie in 1909; Quinn begets Arlie Latham, the Freshest Man on Earth, who takes us back to 1880; Latham brings us to Joe Start, who was 33 when the National League was founded, and that's all the baseball there is.

January: The Cincinnati Reds sign Andrew Brackman, Ryan Madson, Ron Mahay, Dioner Navarro, Joel Guzman, Willie Harris, and Jeff Francis.

I had to check, after I put this list together, to make sure I wasn't sleep-general-managing for the Reds, which is not to say that all of these are good decisions—it's just that all of these are the kind of decisions I would make if I were a GM based simply on remembering that I liked a player once, or thinking, "Man, haven't thought about Joel Guzman in a while." This might offer some insight into Walt Jocketty's style.

Quickly: Brackman is the equivalent of the Cardinals' Shooter Hunt acquisition; Madson was a fine job of taking advantage of an evaporating market, although I'd rather have Roy Oswalt; Mahay is cool because it means someone will still show up in this year's video game as Roster Pitcher 99; Navarro is not as obviously superior to Koyie Hill as I thought; Guzman once slugged .522 as a 19-year-old shortstop in AA and was, last year, a 27-year-old first baseman in AA; Harris is the ultimate Walt Jocketty signing; and Francis would have made a nice Bryan Augenstein-style pickup if it really only took a minor league deal.

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Holy Tags Batman!

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 9:05 AM EST reply actions  

I somehow convinced myself

last month that $2.5mm for McClellan, while not a particularly good idea, wasn’t a terrible waste. Moz had another Jake Westbrook NTC brain fart when he signed the McClellan contract.

by jjray on Jan 26, 2012 9:17 AM EST reply actions  

Well you see, only our bad players have NTCs

Because they ask for one and Moz thinks “Sure, no one would trade for you anyway.”

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 26, 2012 9:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I understand the whole idea of being loyal to your players

But it seems like they play favorites by signing crappy ones like kmcc and skip. Or is that scrappy ones

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 10:51 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Can't decide?

Let parentheses be your friend! (s)crappy ftgw!

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Luchador Niño Chuleta de Cerdo is not amused.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

so who is everyone's favorite signing so far this offseason?

across the board, not just the cardinals

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Jan 26, 2012 9:29 AM EST reply actions  

Favorite as in good or as in we like them because they helped us

Becaude of its the second then I love everything Cincinatti did

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 26, 2012 9:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

either way

i have been sick for a while and haven’t followed too closely so i want to know if someone made out like a bandit in those free agent signings

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Jan 26, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

It looks like my favorite signing will be Roy Oswalt on a one-year deal.

Until that happens, here are my favorite signings:

1) Beltran
2) Colon
3) Kuroda

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

But who will do the signing?

Stay tuned to a station near you!

Cards fan in Middle East

by Shloz on Jan 26, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

i don't know; it seems somewhat hazardous.

you have to be very careful about how and when you move the colon.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 27, 2012 1:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Favorites (Underrated Category)

Josh Willingham to the Twins
Rafael Furcal to the Cards

2011 was a down-year for Willingham to be sure (lowest OBP of his career, but still wOBA’d at .364 after adjusting for home park), but the slugging is still there, and his previous years’ OBPs were in the .350-.390 range. A bounceback from that and a slightly more HR-friendly home field makes this a great signing.

And Furcal. I guess there’s a lot of “ifs” with him (health and OBP in the .335-.340 range), but the glove and arm are still solid.

Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.

by lightbulb on Jan 26, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

i've seen a lot of people trash the furcal deal and say we should have used that money on oswalt...

which is frustrating for two reasons. 1. we might sign oswalt anyway and 2. who the hell was supposed to play shortstop in 2012? if he can stay healthy (and i think he can) and have a bit of BABIP regression, he should be easily worth the 1.6 WAR we’re paying him to be worth.

"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"

-azruavatar

by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 26, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

mo said no on oswalt at warmup

also, broken back
too much risk and no room

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Jan 26, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Dave Dombrowski said no to Prince Fielder too

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

i forgot mo also said colby wasn't going anywhere

and albert said it was not about the money
silly me

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Jan 26, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Moz learned public relations from TLR

which is like learning it from Joseph Goebbels.

by jjray on Jan 26, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Can we reach a community-wide agreement that we will not liken anyone or anything to Nazis?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

No goose-stepping!

:=8O

2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D

by The MooCow on Jan 26, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Reminds me of a joke

Person 1: Knock Knock
Person 2: Who’s there
Person 1: The Gestapo
Person 2: The Gestatpo who?
Person 1 slaps Person 2 across the face
Person 1: We will ask the questions here

by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 26, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Right

His 2010 was awesome, and his 2011 was injury-plagued and and bad-lucked. It feels a little strange to talk about upside potential for a 34-year old, but Furcal’s got it.

Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.

by lightbulb on Jan 26, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

This, exactly

Obviously any baseball player in his mid-thirties is a risk to fall apart or something, but Furcal is a strangely alluring upside player for us this year.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Kind of like The Berk

He had a pretty alright bounce-back from a bad year.

Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.

by lightbulb on Jan 26, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Heh

It would be so awesome if we could just keep signing “Berks” to affordable contracts to plug holes in our team. It takes diligence, though. I wonder how much of it is luck and whether that luck is bound to run out.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Taking that into account with short contracts

Berkman was 1 year, and then he extended in 2012 for one year. And the Furcal deal is a two-year one, so it seems the organization is factoring in the downside by minimize the contract length with the mid-30s guys.

Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.

by lightbulb on Jan 26, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, and I recall

someone posting here recently suggesting that past-their-prime former stars with something to prove and a willingness to take 1 or 2 year deals might be the new market inefficiency. Time will tell, I guess, but it’s probably worth study.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 26, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it seems like a pretty cool move

And I agree witih lightbulb, the shorter term contracts do mitigate the risks. I still get a little worried that the team might over-rely on one of these contracts working out and be kind of screwed in the short term if it doesn’t. However, so far they have only done it in positions of relative depth. We had Craig if Berk didn’t work out, and Jay, Craig, Adams, etc., provide decent depth if Berk and/or Beltran don’t work. There’s at least the possibility of Greene or Jackson’s good defense if Furcal is some sort of disaster but he seemed solid to me by the end of last year.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

There are damn few if any

ML teams who don’t have their own horror stories about big contracts biting them in the ass. I’ve got to believe there’s a line item on most teams’ budgets for “screwed in the short term” and that they build those possibilities into their medium-term and long-term planning.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 26, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Right

Anyway, I really enjoy this “trend” the Cardinals are displaying. It’s also cool to get sign some big names I respect as sort of a Post-Pujols coping mechanism. I mean, how often did we say to ourselves, “it sure would be cool if there were a way to have Carlos Beltran play for the Cardinals”.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Matty, that's what makes the Cardinals

uniquely capable of watching one or two of these contracts fail. I couldn’t agree with you more. It IS a market inefficiency now, and we are in a great spot to exploit it.

Ahhh, the joy of trading Colby Rasmus for a World Series. I'll take that every year please.

by Eckstreem on Jan 26, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think "inefficiency" is the right word

Those guys pretty much only want to play on contending teams, and that limits their negotiating power.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Makes it nice to be

a Cardinal fan, no? 11 titles, 2 in the last 6 years. Sweet.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 26, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd love to see a team try to take this to an extreme

and basically only offer 1-2 year deals to anyone, but with significantly higher AAVs. It’d probably crash and burn, but would be fun to watch.

by brackenthebox on Jan 26, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought the new market inefficiency was tied to the new CBA

at least, that’s what this article about the Cubs seems to indicate.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the Furcal deal got a bit eclipsed by the Beltran deal

which was sort of the same thing, only more so. If you’re going to pick a “older player with injury history but real upside” deal to talk up, the Beltran deal has to rate as the best. But of course the same reasons that the Beltran deal was really smart also apply to the Furcal deal, just not to quite the same extent.

by Robth on Jan 26, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I thought we slightly over-paid for Furcal

I think if we’d waited it out we could’ve either got him for 5m AAV or on a one-year deal (which I’d have much preferred). The worry is, if he really is just about done, we’re paying him another $7m next year. Really, I think the Furc deal is fine, but it’s not much less than fair market value for a guy who had a down year (albeit very unlucky), probably isn’t a good bet to play more than 100 games, and who is a middle infielder in his mid-30s. I was expecting us to get him for about 1yr/$5m originally.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 26, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Last three years:

Games played 407 to 334
WAR 9.8 to 8.2
both in favor of Scutaro

Even if Scutaro is slightly worse, not having to guarantee $7 million in 2013 makes up for it and then some…

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Furcal has been a superior player.

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=1555,88

I still very much like Furcal’s upside for next year. Last year, Furcal was hugely unlucky – a .240 BABIP.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 26, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I think they're about equivalent

Scutaro might be a slightly better defender and is a reasonable bet to get on base at a better clip, Furcal maybe has a bit more pop and speed. I think I’d rather have either player for 1yr/$6.5m than 2yr/$14m, on that basis. And I’m pretty sure we have someone equivalent to Clay Mortensen (probably someone like Joe Kelly would’ve been a better deal from the BoSox POV).

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 28, 2012 3:26 AM EST up reply actions  

1. Madson

2. Reyes
3. Dejesus
4. Beltran
5. Thome

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh yes, Thome was a good deal

But Madson #1?

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 26, 2012 1:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I suppose he's not that great of a deal if you think relievers are horribly overpaid...

but he’s an unbelievably good deal relative to all those other overpaid relievers.

Papelbon getting 4/50 and Madson 1/8 would be like Fielder getting 9/214 and Pujols 3/60.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree with your analogy because Papelbon is clearly better than Madson

Just like Pujols is clearly better than Fielder. At any rate, I don’t think it’s fair to say the Madson deal was good just because it was much better than the Papelbon deal. It’s like comparing the Lohse deal to the Zito deal. Sure it looks good in comparison, but in a vacuum it’s nothing to brag about.

Ryan Madson has never been worth more than 1.7 fWAR in a season. They’re paying him to be worth (a little) more than that next season. I just don’t buy the idea that this can be considered one of the best 5 deals of the offseason, and certainly not in the same league as, say, Furcal, who could easily surpass the roughly 3 WAR we’re paying him for in just one 120ish game season.

by jibbers on Jan 26, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

How would you alter the fWAR calculation for relievers?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I would do one of two things

1) Just use the same average FIP for everyone. Relievers get penalised (rightly) for throwing fewer innings, but they also have to live up to a lower replacement level FIP, which seems to me to be penalising them twice. I’d use total average FIP as the baseline for both starters AND relievers and calculate the baseline of replacement level from there.

In that way, a 70IP reliever with a FIP of 3.00 would be one third as valuable as a 210IP starter with a FIP of 3.00. My only slight concern with this is that, intuitively, it feels like it’s going to lead to starters being undervalued (because the reduced replacement-level FIP means that it’s going to be harder to be a league average starter) but there is probably some way of solving this by weighting IP etc.

I really feel that the way fWAR works for relievers is totally arbitrary, in that it attempts to take WPA/leverage index into account to some extent but then does NOT do that for any other players, and it also (by the means of chaining) uses a replacement level that is effectively above the real replacement level.

If Lance Berkman can’t play next year, he’s not replaced by a replacement-level guy. Likely at least 300 or so of his PAs are taken by Allen Craig (who is probably above-average) and the rest might be Matt Adams or whoever (who will likely be above replacement) yet for some reason we credit Berkman with ALL his value above replacement level; we don’t do that for relievers, as chaining means they only get a portion of their weighted leveraged value above the next reliever in the chain, and that’s hugely inconsistent. There are more better-than-replacement-level players in existence than there are roster spots in baseball, which is the reason that it’s unfair to use the chaining calculation for relievers, so that leads me on to suggestion #2:

2) Fix replacement level. By elevating replacement level (which is arbitrarily defined as 2 wins below average production IIRC), you make a “replacement level team” (i.e. a bunch of AAAA guys) slightly stronger, and reduce the WAR value of every player in baseball. This better reflects the likelihood of replacing an injured player (as with my Berkman example above) with a cromulent backup. Relievers, meanwhile, still get the value multiplier from the average leverage of their innings, BUT don’t get hurt as badly by the chaining adjustment, as every other player in baseball is being (to a slightly greater extent) “chained” against the likelihood of being replaced by a player who is above what we currently define as replacement-level, if you follow.

Basically, the system needs to be changed to reflect that penalising a reliever for the fact that he will be replaced by an above-replacement player is not applied universally across all the positions.

A third option would be to include some sort of leverage calculation for ALL pitchers, but I feel that would be overly complex. In all honesty, I’d rather take leverage out of it altogether, and merely express that the innings relievers throw are often more valuable (per inning) than for starters, and I think some means of applying #1 with some multipliers might do that.

I think the whole situation is hugely complex but I HATE the presumption that WAR perfectly captures and expresses all the complexity and granularity of reliever value. I think we can say, pretty solidly, that a 4-WAR shortstop is worth $Xm, but I just don’t think that we can do that with the same certainty for relievers simply because the system that values them is complex, arbitrary and somewhat flawed (IMO) and a better way to do it is simply to recognise that it likely includes a higher degree of error (and possibly under-rates relievers somewhat because of the problems I have with the application of leverage multipliers and chaining).

FWIW, I’ve asked several SABR luminaries about these questions over the years, including the likes of Tom Tango, and to date have never had a satisfactory response. So, until I do, I’m going to take reliever WAR with a massive pinch of salt.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 28, 2012 3:44 AM EST up reply actions  

have some time on your hands?

actually I read this and appreciate your answer

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 28, 2012 8:33 AM EST up reply actions  

This makes some good points

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 28, 2012 8:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Just use fip

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 6:47 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Id rather have madsen

No question

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 6:46 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

free agent or any signing in general?

matt moore’s contract was a bit of technical wizardry by the rays.

favorite signing, free agent category is probably madson (just because it ended up being a one year deal for a top-shelf closer, which is absurdly difficult to do and yet remains the best way to fill out your bullpen)
favorite signing, free agent category, cardinals division is clearly beltran.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

It is my hope that the Cardinals never again pay a closer the amount of money Ryan Madson will receive this season.

I think it’s a waste of money. I’m surprised this many folks like the Madson deal. It’s better than the Papelbon or Bell deals, but still an overpay for saves, IMO.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, it's an overpay.

i just find it hilarious the way everything worked out. phillies are going to re-sign him. no they’re not. they sign papelbon to an absolutely absurd contract. madson gets only one year.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, for one year I wouldn't hate it.

Especially when you consider the fact that Logan ondrusuck was probably going to close if they don’t sign madsen, so I’d pay 8 mil just to keep that from happening.

by lopey986 on Jan 26, 2012 12:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think I'd have Bill Bray close and be happy to spread that $8MM around.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Er, Madson projects to be worth about 1-1.5 WAR, and he's being paid 8.5 million

That’s an overpay. Beltran was a far better signing.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Beltran

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't happen this off-season

But I really like the Carpenter deal. $20m for two years of a guy who’s averaged >4 WAR the last three years is great value.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 26, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, actually that's even better than the Beltran deal

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Congrats VEB!

Winner of RFT’s 2011 Best Sports Blog!

(possibly nextdef’d… I didn’t check last night’s thread).

by avs18fan on Jan 26, 2012 9:51 AM EST reply actions  

So, who is Aaron Shafer on this blog? azru?

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Red Baron

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

azru's name is tim mccullough.

per his sbn profile page.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

This was not expected...

Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.

by lightbulb on Jan 26, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

NOBODY EXPECTS

THE SPANISH INQUISITION

DO YOU THINK IT'S NOT GOING TO BE WHAT IT IS?!!

by Vindicator9000 on Jan 26, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

There it is!

Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.

by lightbulb on Jan 26, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

it's not there it is until the spanish inquisition actually shows up .. he will sooner or later

like a certain person with a polish name

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

the spanish inquisition wil be delayed

the german inquisition will be on time

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Jan 26, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

c'mon man we're under a microscope here

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

the spanish inquisition is requesting a bailout from the german inquisition.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

The german inquisition

demands to know where they put the fountain of life

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 26, 2012 10:06 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

st augustine

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Jan 27, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Great to see the Wings get trashed

schafenfreude!

I’m fine with this ball club if we don’t sign or trade for another player. Remain flexible at the deadline. I love it.

by openside on Jan 26, 2012 11:08 AM EST via Android app reply actions  

I know $3 M is $3 M and the Cards

Have done a good job of filling holes and spending money to do it. However, when I think about a Game 4 in a playoff series and my options are Kyle Lohse and Roy Oswalt, spend the extra $3 M and bring him in.

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 26, 2012 11:16 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Colon

Wow. Dude only threw an average of 64 IP per season during the 2006-2009 seasons, missed all of 2010 (at least at the MLB level), and then had the 2011 that he had.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 26, 2012 11:26 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah, it's pretty intriguing

It’s like a career resurrection. Was Dave Duncan involved somehow without us knowing about it?

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Remember that he received a medical procedure involving stem cells on his throwing arm.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I had totally forgotten about that.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I only remember it in vague terms.

1) Stem Cells
2) Throwing Arm

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Even BJ gets it!

BJRains: Seeing Pujols/FIelder deals make Ryan Howard’s deal more amazing. Already on the decline and 5-year, $125 million starts this year!

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 11:36 AM EST reply actions  

What would Howard have gotten if he hadn't signed an extension and hadn't blown his achilles tendon?

Is there a GM in baseball who would have treated him as an elite offensive first baseman?

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

5 years, $75?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Assuming Amaro's not allowed to be in the negotiation

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Howard is entering his age 32 season.

Five years seems sane so I’ll say that, in this alternative dimension, Howard would get six years at around $100MM.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

when they signed him to a 5/125$ they knew he would be 32 at the start

Of course the time between the actual extension and present time, give owners the benefit of hindsight or having seen his last x number of years

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Right.

The thought exercise here is a hypothetical. What if he hadn’t signed the extension and hadn’t blown out his achilles? What would he receive in free agency?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

understand was just pointing out age piece of original contract with subject line

and yes, given the previous contract was made in the past, and GMs have now observed his decline os he wouldn’t/definitely shouldn’t get the same contract as a result. He hasn’t performed as well as Pujols or Fielder (yes younger) during the interim, so I wouldn’t think anyone would be willing to give him more than the 6/100 like you suggest as the high.

Also, interesting to take a look back on Pujols/Fielder contract in say 3/4 years as a contrast

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Presumably the losers of the Fielder/Pujols sweepstakes would...

be in on Howard – the Nats and Marlins. Those are two questionably managed orgs that are capable of a really dumb signing.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

The marlins only wanted pujols

Because of his Latino descent (well that’s not the only reason, but it’s a big part of the reason they were in on him and not fielder). The nats never seemed seriously interested in either, I think they see their mistake with werth and kind of pulled the reigns in a little bit on the huge cotract front.

by lopey986 on Jan 26, 2012 12:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Clearly Phillies ownership

viewed it the way Illitch views Fielder: Winning it all in the short term makes a ridiculous contract seem worthwhile. Unfortunately (BWAHAHAHAHAHA) Carp and Co. threw a spanner in the works.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 26, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

They didn't have to extend Howard to win in the short term though

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, they had him locked up for his age 30 and 31 season...

they really reached far into the future and didn’t even get any kind of a discount.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

and howards was like a 2.5 WAR player

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

In fairness. . .

he was much better than 2.5 WAR before he signed the extension, and much worse after:

2006: 6.2 fWAR
2007: 3.7 fWAR
2008: 3.0 fWAR
2009: 4.6 fWAR
- – signed extension in April 2010 – -
2010: 1.4 fWAR
2011: 1.6 fWAR

Sure, it was a stupid extension, but it wasn’t as stupid as it would have been had Howard actually been a 2.5 fWAR player in the years preceding it. That would have been like the Cards giving, I dunno, Jon Jay the Ryan Howard extension now to start in 2014.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 26, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

his projection going into 2010 was probably not much better than 3 WAR

when you consider regression and aging.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Tha seems about right

2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 26, 2012 3:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

probably, he has RBIs

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

An interesting statement that could probably be applied to Pujols.

“Already on the decline and 10-year, $250MM starts this year!”

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

not really

By WAR estimates the contract was actually pretty fair when you consider the backloading, maybe a slight overpay.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CMfslPgK&key=0AmhtqthzQ8zFdFUzTGszMFpsUFhnUWVoTWpOb0tZUHc&hl=en&authkey=CMfslPgK#gid=0

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

unless i'm reading it wrong

that seems to indicate it’s over $30MM overpay. that’s not so slight to me

and i think it’s pretty questionable setting him at 7 WAR next season. he’s coming off a 5 WAR season.

by prophetjohn on Jan 26, 2012 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Well it's less than 30 million dollars when you factor in backloading

It’s probably more like 15 million. Either way, it’s somewhere in that range and that’s pretty slight over 10 years.

I agree that 7 WAR is a bit too high for next year, but ZIPS is also including pretty heavy aging. If you use the Marcel thing (-.5 WAR each year) and start him off at 6 WAR, you get essentially the same thing.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Its interesting,

somewhere in this thread his career OPS+ was listed and I think it told a significantly different story than some of the career trajectories that we ve seen here.

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 26, 2012 9:33 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

eh, I didn't see it was just below.

in comparison to the rest of the league, it seems like Pujols just had a down year. We are just more worried because of the beginning of last year, the injury concerns,and his possible age. I wouldn’t downplay those concerns completely, but it does seem a little more promising for the Angels than I would have thought.

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 26, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm more concerned because of how he played

he didn’t look like the same old pujols just getting worse results. he was up there chasing garbage, not taking walks and missing fat pitches

considering the pressure and the adjustment to a new league, i project 2012 to be a about like 2011 if he stays healthy. 5-ish WAR

by prophetjohn on Jan 26, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

This is absolutely true

In the offseason, I guess I get to used to looking at numbers instead of the play. Another thing to look at was that it seemed like his defense was going down significantly, which I would say is a tell tale sign that the decline phase is in process.

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 26, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Holy cow

I just looked at Pujols’s OPS+’s for his career. Here they are:

157
151
187
172
168
178
157
190
189
173

150

(Bold-face indicates he led MLB.)

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

barry bonds, 2001-2004

259
268
231
263

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

o_o

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

he must've worked out

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

perhaps you would like this

1995 205
1996 204

back when he was clean

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Jan 26, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

How do we know he was clean in 1995?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

smaller head?

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Jan 26, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think that means anything.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

really?

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

That Barry Bonds's head was not as big in 1995 does not mean he was not using steroids.

There are a great deal of known steroids users who did not have their head grow to a Bondsian size. He could have been on another type of steroids at that time. Or, his steroid use could have caused a gradual growth that occurred over 10 years or so. We don’t know. Then again, I suspect steroid use probably goes back to the 1970s in MLB so I have a different perspective.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it certainly means its less likely that he was using steroids in 1995

At least nearly to the same capacity.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, arnold used them in the 70's and it's quite likely that baseball players saw pumping iron

and thought, “hey, I could take my great skills and improve upon my ability by increasing strength”, not to mention stamina, but I don’t know if they would have know that before taking them or hearing about them from other baseball players who did

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, in

1991, he weighed less than 200 pounds. I know that’s hardly evidence that he wasn’t using, but I’d guess that he wasn’t. He still OPS’ed .970, hit 33 home runs and stole over 50 bases.

Ahhh, the joy of trading Colby Rasmus for a World Series. I'll take that every year please.

by Eckstreem on Jan 26, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think anyone has ever argued that Barry Bonds wasn't a great player before steroids.

There is also no evidence of his using steroids prior to the BALCO timeframe (during which there is extensive evidence of his steroid use) and Bonds’ steroid use, during whatever time, has been extensively and thoroughly investigated.

It’s pretty simple:
Barry (no steroids) Bonds – HOF talent
Barry (on steroids) Bonds – Arguably Best Player of All-Time

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 26, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

That's why his steroid use was such a
The guy already hat all 5 tools. He was an unreal talent already, then he decided to make himself into some sort of superhuman freak of UNnature.

Ahhh, the joy of trading Colby Rasmus for a World Series. I'll take that every year please.

by Eckstreem on Jan 26, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

dammit

Such a tragedy.

Ahhh, the joy of trading Colby Rasmus for a World Series. I'll take that every year please.

by Eckstreem on Jan 26, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

i disagree with this line of reasoning

but i guess i at least can understand it.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

In the TV specials I've seen

Bonds was enraged that Mac, Sosa and others were getting all the attention by hitting the roids. His response – “Oh yeah? Let me show you something you’ve never seen.”

And then his stats went into orbit.

by JWO on Jan 26, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I've always questioned that.

I don’t recall that sentiment being sourced.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I think his steroid use was kind of cool

who cares if he’s a freak, he’s a freak he’s pretty easily the best player of all time.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, maybe its retrospect

but i dont feel any of the outrage some people do. Its like shawn merriman, it was fun. Damn, bonds peak was impressive, I almost wish people wouldn’t have dogged on him so much so we could focus on the wonderment.
Also, its like people think the ‘problem’ is legitimately gone now. Ha

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 26, 2012 9:43 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Tahbt's 1992 and 1993

Which is crazy. 1992 was the last year before offense exploded, and Bonds was at a 200 OPS+. Then offense went way up in 1993 and Bonds did the exact same thing.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Blah! "That's 1992 and 1993"

Not 1995 and 1996. His OPS+ for those years are only 188 and 170, respectively.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I have no idea when/if Bonds started doing steroids

But he was already Pujolsian.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

if by pujolsian you mean "better than pujols"

then yes.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Heh, that too

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Bondsian

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

damn, what am I smoking?

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Jan 26, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Steroids.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Can't you think of the children for once?

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

If I do all the drugs, there will be less drugs for the children

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Jan 26, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Hmm, good point.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Those two years are an interesting comparison

From 1992 to 1993, Bonds’ BABIP jumped twenty points, his BA jumped accordingly, his OPS jumped about fifty points (due to increased BA/SLG) and he saw an uptick of power (ISO jumped almost thirty points, but it was already over .300 in 1992). But all of baseball started hitting way better in 1993 as well. So his wOBA remained exactly the same, his OPS+ dropped one point, and his wRC+ actually dropped ten points, from 203 to 193.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

His wOBA both those years is .469 by the way

which is insane, and his highest ever until he suddenly started putting up .500+ numbers for wOBA in the 2000s.

Something clicked together. Either he ramped the drugs way up, or just reached some kind of perfect storm of skill, know-how, and steroid-induced victory over the force of inertia itself (like pre-Crisis Superman).

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

this is a strange anomaly:

the #4 season all time by ops+ (258) was by a guy named fred dunlap, in 1884.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

i find it anomalous due to the fact he doesn't seem to have been

that absurdly above league average ever again. his career ops+ is very good, at 133. it’s just that 258 is insane.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

he had an awakening, then regressed to norm

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

13 homeruns.

it was a different game back then.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

There must be something strange going on that year, like he switched to a new league or something

Fangraphs conspicuously does not have BABIP for him that year. It’s just blank. Something weird must be going on.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Also the guy hit .412 all of a sudden

It’s probably just the mid-1880s steroids problem.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

he hit .412 and his obp was only .448.

this year, by the way, dunlap played for the st louis maroons.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, ISOOBP "looks" less impressive the higher your BA is

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

i mean, i was saying "only"

because .448 is pretty damn good.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I love all the team names he played for.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

He played for the St. Louis Maroons

then the Maroons went back to the NL the next year.

The Maroons were 94-19 in the UA in 1884 and were 36-72 in the NL in 1885

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Jan 26, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

ah. that partially explains the ops+.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Heh

Yeah, was this a grade school league that they were allowed to play in for some reason?

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The Union Association lasted only one year,

1884. The guy who started it also owned the Maroons, and stocked the team with all the best players in the league. The next closest team finished 21 games back. The Maroons didn’t “go back” to the NL. After the season, the league collapsed, and the NL was persuaded to let the Maroons join. They hung around St. Louis for a couple of more years before being sold and moving to Indianapolis, and becoming the Hoosiers. The team folded in 1889.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Awesome history, thanks!

So basically, the Maroons were the team of ringers and the owner was C. Montgomery Burns.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

They were practically the Harlem Globetrotters

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't believe I'm the first person to rec this

I’m ashamed VEB.

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Jan 26, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

At least they weren't the Ultra Maroons

or a gull-a-bull, or nin-cow-poop.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

10% walk rate is good...

15% is elite
20% is out of this world
dude had a 38% walk rate one year. That’s my favorite Bonds stat.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

the year he had 120 intentional walks and his obp was .609?

barry bonds didn’t make an out 61% of the time.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

and if you consider changing of league quality

bonds was by far the best player of all time. not even close.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

the opening to Baseball Between the Numbers had an excellent piece comparing Bonds and Ruth

I believe it was Nate Silver that wrote it, but it essentially attempted to put each player in the other’s era so that they could project their stats.

I think the result was that Ruth would’ have been a colossal power hitter (65+ HR a season over a long time) while Bonds would’ve been a near .400 hitter with extreme OBP values, but with reduced (still excellent) power.

Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6

by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jan 26, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Is the premise Bonds without steroids and Ruth on steroids?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

No, they are placing each other in the 'era' of the other

So the assumption is that there would be less medical advances, training, workouts, ect for Bonds, and Ruth would get those benefits. The players stats were also adjusted for the offensive output of the era.

I’m murdering this explanation because I don’t have the book with me, but it really is interesting and I’ll try to dig up an internet archive.

Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6

by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jan 26, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Silver makes a point of saying that they are taking Bonds at 100% face value

The steroids debate he left for another place.

Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6

by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jan 26, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

i disagree with that analysis.

i don’t think ruth would’ve been that good in the modern era.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

i know goldstein's of the opinion

that most players from ruth’s era would not even be able to cut it in the major leagues, let alone mirror their production.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd probably agree with that

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't know what reasonable projection system

would have ruth hitting 65 or more homeruns over an extended period of time. a) that’s more than he ever hit in a single season and b) the quality of the league in the 1920s and 1930s was roughly 75% of what it is now.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

that's an interesting point, a completely valid one,

and one that i had overlooked.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

There's an interesting article that posits the power increase from 1993-2009

was due to the baseball.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Here

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/changing-baseball.shtml
Goes over some studies using electronic imaging data on actual baseballs

http://highboskage.com/juiced-ball.shtml
This one makes the case statistically that the era starting in 1993 is fundamentally different from the one that preceded it, with the obvious exception of 1987 (which could have been a one year introduction of a different ball or something like that, if the theory is right).

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I totally buy that they've deadened the balls since too

Hittracker has the hardest hit HR of 2011 at 118.4 mph and one other at 118.

2006: 17 HRs > 118 mph (peak of 122)
2007: 10 (121 peak)
2008: 10 (122 peak)
2009: 5 (122 peak)
2010: 9 (122 peak)

Sample size blah blah, and there’s no way that hittracker is accurate to the .1 mph level, but I’m pretty sure everyone didn’t forget how to hit the ball 118 mph or faster.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, and the thing is that it's one of the most plausible explanations for different offensive environments

When everything is suddenly, and consistently, different, isn’t the most likely explanation that an across-the-board change was introduced? We know for a fact that the Japanese leagues changed their ball, and they just had that huge Year Of The Pitcher similar to the MLB’s offensive downturn of 2010-2011. I think it was more drastic though.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

So I don't understand why people don't ask the question,

“has MLB changed the ball” more often.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

The sudden onset of the increased scoring environment is very compelling. If steroids were introduced, one would expect it to spread across the league over a few seasons like one of those virus maps from an end-of-the-world movie. Steroids would start somewhere—like in TLR’s Oakland A’s clubhouse—and branch out as players moved via trade and free agency and word got out amongst friends. A gradual run-scoring increase would be expected.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

At the very least, steroids seem an insufficient explanation for the so-called "steroid era".

I’m sure steroids helped individual players do things. I’m not sure we can point to steroids and conclusively say, however, that this, that, and the other thing only happened because of them.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

of course there was the base balls too

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

yup. i tweeted that a couple days ago.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

The most important skill of a hitter is eyesight.

The second-most important skill of a hitter is hand-eye coordination. The players from past eras likely had those skills just as the players playing today do. Would they be able to step off a mid-century field and play with today’s big-leaguers? Probably not, due to training and other developments. But, if they had access to the modern advancements and came up with those advancements, I think they could play in today’s MLB.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

so what exactly are we proposing?

take a 14 year old babe ruth and let him develop in the modern era?

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought that's what Silver's study did.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

ah. okay.

i was under the impression it was taking adult ruth—at whatever age he first played in the major leagues—and putting him on a major league team now. in which case i think he’d hit pretty poorly.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

There was a test done by a college in NYC, I believe.

Ruth performed the test and then they had Pujols do it a few years back. If I remember correctly, they both tested very similarly. I don’t have time to search for the article on it, though.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Could be.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

bat speed and reaction times, if i recall correctly.

i’d be interested to know if the technology used to perform the tests has improved over time, because i’d imagine the margin between (exceptional bat speed and exception reaction times) and (the general population) is pretty small—fractions of a second—so if the measurements weren’t on point exactly that would call into question how good ruth really was.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you're making a lot of assumptions in this post

For one, I would think the most important skill a hitter could have is power. Because that leads to walks, and fatter pitches and dingers.

I also don’t think that players of past era’s had the same level of hand eye coordination and eyesight. The idea behind the changing level of league quality is that pitchers were much easier back then than they are now. So statistically, it would have to be true that hitters were worse as well, or else the league averages would be ridiculously high.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

You claim that he's making an assumption

And then go and make a similar one?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

i don't think power causes walks.

i think strike zone recognition correlates to walks.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

i stated that poorly.

are we defining power as results based or potential based? homeruns hit vs batting practice skill?

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

well the two are heavily correlated

batting practice power definitely leads to more OOZ pitches than average. homerun power leads to even more.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

bb or only ibb?

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Both

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

A quick correlation calculation

ISO to Zone% on fangraphs had a -.46 correlation.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

you *really* don't think

that the more power a batter has, the less likely a pitcher is to throw a pitch in the strike zone?

Power correlates strongly to walks and I think a lot of that is causative.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Power is meaningless without good eyesight and correspondingly good hand-eye coordination.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

And the other way around

See Ryan Theriot.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's fair to say that they all matter

And batters in this era obviously have more power.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Obviously.

Due to modern advancements in training, diet, conditioning, and drugs, they are much stronger.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Bring Ruth back and let him grow up as a new born taking advantage of all these things including the steroids

and you’d wind up with something like the comparison being discussed was the point of the analysis

also

OT he had a funny looking build in comparison to modern players, not just his belly. another funny build but great player was rogers hornsby

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

What was funny about Hornsby?

Photos I’ve seen make him out to be a fairly normal looking guy. Was he short?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 26, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

waist down if you watch film he seemed to have awkward hip/leg transition and was bowlegged

moved different than the average person

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

baseball ability is mostly genes...

if he were transported to the 21st century with his genes and was raised from birth to be the best ballplayer possible, he’d top out in college ball.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Ryan Theriot is a big-leauger.

Many professional football players—though very powerful—would be horrible at baseball because they don’t possess the exceptional hand-eye coordination to hit a round ball that is moving with a round bat. I agree that power is important, but one has to make contact with a baseball for one’s power to come into play.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

ok, well i assume we're talking about professiona ballplayers here

so i’m not sure what the football example means.

I think power is the most important skill because it has both intrinsic value (dingers and doubles being the best things you can do on a field), and correlative value (power leads to more walks).

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

are triples worth less than doubles?

i’m curious.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

no, more of course

on average. if you look at a small enough sample doubles could be worth mroe, but that would just be error.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

okay.

i was just confused by the statement “dingers and doubles being the best things you can do on a field”.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

i was going for the alliteration

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

This is like saying the roof is the walls are the roof is the most important feature of a house.

You can’t have a roof without a foundation. You can’t hit for power without having both good eyesight and good hand-eye coordination.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

/sheds single tear for tommy pham.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm really regretting not bringing the book back to my apartment

The way Nate Silver describes it, it makes a lot more sense. It had something to do with using a league-wide base statline from the early 1980s because it was the middle point of offensive production between the two eras.

Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6

by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jan 26, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Ruth would get absolutely owned if they brought the 1920 version of him into 2012

Athlete training has come so far since the 1980s it’s a joke. Saying otherwise is about like saying Jesse Owens could compete with Usain Bolt.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

i think the point is, Ruth would have benefited from the advanced knowledge, training, nutrition, medical capability, etc

not like bringing the physical specimen of Ruth 1920s straight to the modern day as in a time macine

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean maybe?

Even if you gave him all that, he’d still have to drastically change his swing mechanics. If he used this?

He’d be terrible.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

for what reason?

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

A lot

He leaps into his swing, opens his front foot all the way before actually swinging (and the hips go with it) and has a long ass swing path on top of it. You could throw him a slider on 80% of the pitches and he’d have nothing for it—-luckily sliders hadn’t been created yet. He’d have to change the whole thing.

I mean he does a lot of stuff right but that’s basically a swing you’d invent now if you were in Professional Home Run Derby.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It's funny.

Sliders weren’t invented yet. Neither were foul poles. The foul pole was invented largely due to Babe Ruth and some estimate the lack of foul poles cost him dozens of home runs that were incorrectly called foul.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

other things that hadn't been invented yet

Latin American baseball players (in MLB)
African American baseball players (in MLB)
lightweight bats
modern swing mechanics
the rule outlawing the spitball
airplane travel
sports medicine
Gatorade
modern weight training
pitching machines
personal jet packs
night games
closers
platoon splits
video scouting

Seriously, you could play this game all day on both sides of the equation.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 26, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, yeah.

I wasn’t really making an argument. I just find it interesting how different an era Ruth played in and how revoluationary he was as a ballplayer.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely

Ruth revolutionized the game in a way that no one else ever has since – not Bonds, not Williams, not Koufax, not Pedro Martinez, not Johan Santana.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 26, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

poor ty cobb.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Feeling sympathy

for Ty Cobb is a true niche market.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 26, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

heh.

he and ruth had very different ideal versions of baseball. cobb lost.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

R is for Ruth.
To tell you the truth,
There’s just no more to be said,
Just R is for Ruth.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

commercial airline travel started in 1914.

the same year as ruth’s career.

i get what you’re saying, though—mlb players back then didn’t have the luxury of traveling by air.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

I believe that there may have been a couple of Cuban players of African-American descent who were not prohibited from the league, but it would have been very, very few.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 26, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

you don't think it worked both ways?

i would think if anything umpires had a bias for ruth.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

is that gif in real time or slowed down?

also, his supposed incredible bat speed doesn’t make up for the strange mechanics? i don’t really know what i’m talking about here…

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

his incredible bat speed definitely helps

but I’m sure there are guys playing today with equally incredibly batspeed and better mechanics, and they have far worse numbers than ruth.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

By the time he got the barrel around...

the catcher would’ve returned the ball, called the next pitch, chatted up the ump and made himself a sandwich.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

w/o reading through the string below, why? He's got his eye on the ball, made consistent contact, K'd little, etc.

look at a lot of great hitters, they don’t have the pretty motion of BB, but they make consistent contact and drive the ball. Let’s ask thepainguy what he thinks.

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

...read the string below.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

K'd little?

He led the league in strikeouts 5 times and held the career K-record for 35 years.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

his K mean would be something like high 60s/70s during non pitching years from eyeballing it

and average over 22 yrs would be less than 61

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

Which is a function of how shitty the pitching was then relative to what it is now and, to a lesser degree the emphasis stupid people put on not striking out. But he finished in the top 5 in strikeouts from 1918-1929 leading the league 5 times, he was a strikeout power hitter.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you calling me stupid joker? I'm pretty sure you don't know me.

And how does everything else you said indicate he would strike out significantly more today if he was raised with modern science etc?

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

He struck out more than anyone in his era

He has by modern standards an extremely long swing and loading phase, much(!) moreso than anyone hitting today. With that insanely long swing, he simply wouldn’t be able to handle all the offspeed stuff that’s been created and tweaked since his time to go with the fact that every middle reliever (except McClellan) can touch 95.

If he was striking out 80-90 times in the 1920s, he’d strike out 250+ times now with that swing. He’d just have to change it.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

and if he grew up in modern times why wouldn't he take advantage of everything we know today?

he would be well aware of these things, have coaching staff working with him, and obviously he figured out the best approach then, so he would likely adjust to the environment now.

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

The original point:

Even if you gave him all that, he’d still have to drastically change his swing mechanics. If he used this?

And when you start changing things as drastically as he’d need to change them, you don’t know where you end up.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

no one know's how he or anyone one from a different era would perform

in a different era, how would Barry have performed if he were able to play in Ruth’s era, w/o the knowledge and experience that led him to be who he was in his era? And the same influences, such as watching better/older hitters swing

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd be interested to see what thepainguy has to say about Ruth's swing

Once he plants his front foot it doesn’t loo all that different to me from modern swings.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah his actual hand path and all is eerily similar to Bonds

Ruth stays connected through contact and not the stupid extension crap people preach, has a circular-ish hand path if you were to look from above and ridiculous hip rotation—-powered by that insane stride and hip movement (watch how much farther Ruth’s hips travel forward than Bonds’).

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

that's awesome, Ruth keeps the right arm tucked in close

I’ve always thought Bonds had one of the most natural looking and best looking swings, they are incredibly similar, in regard to what you do not show, there’s been some odd stance/timing mechanisms used by many of the greats

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you make this or find it somewhere?

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Cause it's really cool

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

tangential, but Pedro Martinez ERA+

219
163
243
291
190
202
211

I was too young for even Maddux, but 99&00 were the best pitched seasons I’ve ever seen. Right in the middle of the steroid era. ridiculous.

Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6

by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jan 26, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, 291 is alright.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

They may be the best-pitched seasons ever.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Tim Kurkjian

did a piece on Pedro’s peak a few years ago, and he concluded that, relative to the pitching and offense of all baseball in all eras, his 7 year peak was the best 7 years ever by a pitcher.

Ahhh, the joy of trading Colby Rasmus for a World Series. I'll take that every year please.

by Eckstreem on Jan 26, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

babe ruth, 1918-1934

194
219
255
238
182
238
220
137
225
225
206
193
211
218
200
175
160

by DanUpBaby on Jan 26, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah he sucked, only had 11

and still holds the odd pitching record IIR

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

straight terrible.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

i know, right?

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

OT: 3D

Okay, so I haveto say that while I think 3D is mostly a gimmick to make movie goers pay more money to see a movie or to entice fans of a movie to pay full price to see the same movie again in the theaters.

I have to admit, I’m pretty excited about The Phantom Menace coming out in 3D in a couple of weekends. Now, I don’t care if you liked the movie or hated it. If you feel it’s an abomination to the original 3. Whatever. I. Don’t. Care. I’m still seeing it.

However, my real point here is…..why in the fuck is Titanic being re-released in 3D?

Seriously. What. The. Fuck?

IN 3D!!!!

Am I missing something?

Hey. While we’re at it, let’s re-release The Notebook in 3D too!!! How about How to Loose a Guy in Ten Days? Or maybe both Sex in the City movies??

All just as excellent an idea as Titanic.

Seriously. Am I out of touch here? What’s the demand for Titanic 3D?

This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.

- Jackie Brown

by Tackle Box on Jan 26, 2012 11:36 AM EST reply actions  

none here for sure

or 3d in general

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Jan 26, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

I've enjoyed some movies in 3D

and I love my 3DS, but like you I believe it’s mostly a gimmick to try and get people to see more movies.

On the topic of Titanic. I have no idea why they’re re-releasing it in 3D. I understand that with the advancements in film that they’re re-releasing it in IMAX and wutnot, but I don’t need to see the sink ship in 3D.

By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. - George Carlin

My Google+ Page |

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jan 26, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Well a lot of the scenes were digitally animated, which usually lends itself well to 3D

I can imagine the banquet scene, the water flooding, and the sinking to be pretty great in 3D

Also, boobs

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh my god, I just had a breakthrough

3D porn. I’m going to be a millionaire!

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 26, 2012 1:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

holigram porn would make it obsolete

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Dream crusher

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 26, 2012 1:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

full circle

Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6

by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jan 26, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Imaaaginaaaation

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

okay guys...

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

VEB: From Titanic to mind porn.

This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.

- Jackie Brown

by Tackle Box on Jan 26, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

value added

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

There was this John Holmes movie

that used to play in the art house theaters called “Disco Dolls in Hot Skin”. It was in 3D. 1978 or 1979.

by hangingfromatree on Jan 26, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh wow, it was a joke but seriously if you try to invent something that's already not only invented

But has Disco in the title, you’re waaaaaaaaaayyyyy late to the party

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 26, 2012 1:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Shhhhhhh, You're gonna hurt my feelings

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 26, 2012 1:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Wasn't it like the highest grossing film of all time?

I think the answer is not why, but why not? They will get a bunch of people who never saw the original into theaters paying something like $15-18 a piece to watch or re-watch it. I doubt the 3d conversion was all that expensive. Makes sense to me.

by OCCardsFan on Jan 26, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I once heard a comedian say about Titanic:

“Finally! 14 year old girls now have their Star Wars!”

This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.

- Jackie Brown

by Tackle Box on Jan 26, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

that was Grease

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Man, I love Grease

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Grease is the word! Me too, wife even more so

Travolta just kept reinventing self, Sat Night Fever, Grease, Urban Cowboy!

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

You left out Welcome Back Kotter, man. . .

That was Travolta’s dramatic nadir, IMHO. Now as for the rest of the Sweathogs. . .

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 26, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I liked that series as well, but it didn't have the legs for serialization that others of the same time have had

But, I was going with movies involving music genres, all diff, and dancing. His movies led to 3 huge music/clothing/dancing fads

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Richard Gere, cheap man's Travolta

he made Gere

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd pee my pants in laughter

to see Travolta as Lancelot in First Knight.

by openside on Jan 26, 2012 1:29 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Julia Ormond was hot btw

that would be hilarous, image in my head is of him as Vinnie, First Knight

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't let me stamp on your dreams.

We could just cast Sean Connery and Travolta in Legends of the Fall. Make the Indian Morgan Freeman maybe?

by openside on Jan 26, 2012 2:24 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

What in the hell are you on about

post above about Travolta making Gere was a jok

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

As am I.

I’m just putting together plans for an ensemble cast with all the major players getting involved.

That’s the only other movie I can think of with that chick in it.

by openside on Jan 26, 2012 2:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

oh, I didn't take your subject line the right way

sorry.

yes she was hot in Legends also, no wonder brothers screwed each other over!

as far as Brad Pitt and Legends goes, I liked it, also, A River Runs Through It

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

speaking of randomly assigned cast members, i watched the opening credits to

superman returns the other day and the following names came more or less in order:

eva marie saint
kal penn
parker posey
and kevin spacey

it looked like someone had programmed a random number generator to assemble a cast out of the imdb database. i was trying to figure what, if anything, those four people had in common.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure why you're asking the question

they were all in the cast. Are you saying some casting director used a ouija board to construct the cast for the movie, or you just got weirded out by the order their credits were put on the screen? Either way, not sure….

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Ormond was also hot

as the star of Smilla’s Sense of Snow, a truly wierd but enjoyable film.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 26, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

It appears she is just hot in general, that's 3

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Ick...

…all those moovies sucked…
:=8P

2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D

by The MooCow on Jan 26, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

He's the one that you want?

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't see 3D.

I wish I could have seen “Hugo” in 3D.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Did you see it in 2D?

Was I correct in assuming that it was a bgh movie?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah.

I really love that movie. I think it does a better job of capturing the spirit of silent cinema than “The Artist.” I really hope “Hugo” wins Best Picture but I bet the Weinstein’s multi-million dollar campaign for “The Artist” will carry the day.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

It'll be close, I think. I think Dujardin deserves it for Best Actor in a Leading Role, but Hugo's the better film

Two 3D scenes really stood out for me in Hugo; the opening scene when the camera is swooping in on the station, and near the end where the train is coming towards the audience, because of the reaction the original film got from the audience.

I think that was pretty spoiler free…

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

why can't you see 3D? no depth perception?

I have no visual depth perception, or or not enough to pic out the pics that show you have depth perception in the eye drs office. But I can see 3D thankfully, I love the 3D movie effects I’ve seen at Universal Studios (Simpson’s ride was Amazing!), Disney World, and HK Disney.

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

One eye is nearly blind and both have a very bad astigmatism.

I haven’t tried a 3D movie in some time because of how expensive they are but I have never been able to see 3D anything.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

damn man, sorry

I’ve have lazy eye so brain turns of the overlapping image from the lazy eye. (no I’m not cross eyed for those imagining things)

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I had a lazy eye, too.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

damn, do you answer to the name of lucky?

jok, I know it sucks

I had to wear the patch when I was young, then glasses, which helped a lot, until about my late 30’s when I had to start wearing glasses, didn’t need them from age 14 to age 38.

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel your pain.

I can’t shoot for shit when I play basketball and I’m a truly awful baseball player. I also can’t read putts, though I’ve found walking around the putt an bobbing my head like a bird helps some (the public embarrasment of which generally discourages me from doing so).

Ahhh, the joy of trading Colby Rasmus for a World Series. I'll take that every year please.

by Eckstreem on Jan 26, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I can see movie 3D

But I can’t see glasses-less 3D on phones for some reason.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Revealing my technology ignorance,

glasses-less 3D on phones?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I've checked out the 3D demos in the stores, pretty neat, but the cost and novelty do not make me want to open the wallet

Does anyone have opinion on if this crazy 3D thing is here to stay longer than previous attempts?

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

We have it on the LG Thrill, it's a nice 4G android otherwise

But I hate the 3D, it hurts my eyes. It’s also warns you on the phone to only use it when looking straight on. The stuff can really screw your vision up

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 26, 2012 1:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

and give you brain cancer

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

heh, brain cancer is underrated

its about time they came out with something that causes it.

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 26, 2012 8:46 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

crap, i never saw hugo

is it still out?

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

If it isn't, "Hugo" will likely be re-released with the other Best Picture nominees in a month or so.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

nice

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, "We Have to Talk About Kevin" didn't get a nomination for anything?

wat

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

this is the five hundredth time i've heard someone say this.

good film? i missed seeing it.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

It had a small release in 2011, but I don't think it gets a larger release...soon?

You might still be able to catch it

But yeah, I enjoyed it a lot. Tilda Swinton should get some play for Best Actress

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The nominations this year were not very good.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

it seems like they should miss fewer good films

due to the expansion of the number of nominations. the academy awards are like the mvp of film. sometimes the voters get it right and sometimes they don’t look like they know what they’re doing.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't love it, but "Drive" probably should have been nominated

A Separation, too

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

"Drive" and "A Separation" should've been nominated.

I think some of the acting categories were pretty bad.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

drive shook me up pretty badly.

i left the theatre and sat in silence in my car for a pretty long time.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha really?

It took me by surprise, so I didn’t expect… that at all. I need to give it another watch

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

That's, like, the entire point of his character

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

that you don't know the backstory?

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

He's a lot like protagonists in Westerns

They show up, with a very clear moral conscience, they fight the bad guys, and then go home

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

i realise that.

it’s what makes him so compelling.

i think it would be cool to see what made him who he was, though. as a separate film, obviously.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

While not the Refn interview I was looking for,

this one touches on it.

Gosling plays a taciturn stunt driver who moonlights behind the wheel of getaway cars after hours. It’s a quiet life of cruising and eluding that skids off the tracks when he meets young mother Carey Mulligan and later her ex-con husband. In James Sallis’s original novella, there’s a backstory. The movie strips that out and places faith in the lean, mean, purring fundamentals.

Refn makes a case for Drive as an almost childish fable – albeit one in which someone gets a fork in the face (and not by accident). “I read Grimm fairytales to my daughter a few years ago, and the idea with Drive was similar. You have the driver who’s like a knight, the innocent maiden, the evil king [Albert Brooks’s nefarious kingpin] and the dragon [Ron Perlman’s roaring mobster]. They’re all archetypes. It takes place in a city of millions but you never really see anyone. That isolates them, makes it very specific.”

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

were any of those movies made by James Cameron?

that’s my guess as to “why,” much like those Star Wars movies and Lucas. Director/creator wants to realize the original vision; studio wants to make money.

by brackenthebox on Jan 26, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd never see a serious movie in 3d

But damn if jackass 3d didn’t leave me with sore abs from laughing so hard for 2 hours.

Piranha 3D was a pretty hilarious use of the 3d as well.

by lopey986 on Jan 26, 2012 12:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Why not? Not even if an acclaimed director meant for it to be viewed that way, like with Hugo?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I hate all 3D movies

They are nauseating and they hurt my head afterwards. Also, overpriced. And too many scenes in which things come flying straight at you.

by hr on Jan 26, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Do none of you have Cinemarks nearby?

$4.50 matinee, $6.00 regular, $8.00 for 3D

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Never heard of it

But still, you’d have to give me money to watch one

by hr on Jan 26, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

What the shit?

it cost 17$ for 3D in LA.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

there are cinemarks in la.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

AMC

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

the landmark is even more expensive

so is the grove, and the f’ing arc-light is like 20 dollars a ticket. I’d never even heard of a cinemark before.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That. is. the. reason.

/ Never seen it.

"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"

by elirock83 on Jan 26, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Lidge gets one year in this market. Madson gets one year in this market

LOL PHILLIES

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 11:49 AM EST reply actions  

If you're a Phillies fan, wouldn't you rather have Madson and Lidge back than Papelbon?

Also, the Hamels negotiations will be much more difficult with Papelbon on the books.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

He's had injury problems but has still managed a K/9 over 10.

Lidge walks too many people but Lidge has always walked to many people. It’ll be interesting to see if his BB/9 is closer to 4.0 or 6.0 in 2012.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Not exactly true.

2009 was a horrible year, yes, but he was decent in both 2010 (50 apps, 27 svs, 45.2 inns, 139 ERA+) and 2011 (25 games, 1 sv, 19.1 inns, 86 ERA+ in an injury-plagued year in which he backed up Madson).

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Lidge 1/1M

I don’t have enough left in me to be mad about it anymore.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

there's a lot to be mad about with this team, right

coming off a world series win and an offseason where all the major moves were done right

by prophetjohn on Jan 26, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

John Mozeliak is worse than Kim Jong Il!

But not Hitler. Totally better than Hitler.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't you have a 6.2 about 4 days ago ?

Having an aftershock ?

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, off the coast of Chiapas, Mexico.

That one was fun, lasted like a minute and moved the pictures haging from the walls a bit.

"They just won't go away"
Bilingual Twitter

by Paulspike on Jan 26, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

where is here

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

guatemala.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

What, if any, are the appreciable effects

of snorting coffee grinds? You know, if you’re temporarily without a water source. Is that a thing? Also: could I just cook the coffee grinds on a spoon and inject that into my … eyeball? I’m, um, taking a survey.

by hangingfromatree on Jan 26, 2012 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

Muddy snot?

I can’t imagine the caffeine is concentrated enough for that to be an effective way. If you have whole beans you can chew on those that’s not that bad.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

You could probably just chew 'em

I imagine the effects of snorting them would include violent sneezing, and perhaps a distinct sensation that you’d be happier if you just cut your nose off.

by Robth on Jan 26, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

VEB is at lunch, back in 5 min

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 1:24 PM EST reply actions  

oh god, we offered 5mil for oswalt?

and the Rangers might win the bid by 2-3 million? looks at KMac’s contract fffuu..

by hr on Jan 26, 2012 1:34 PM EST reply actions  

Skip and kyle wavin at Roy!

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 6:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

I texted this exact point to Bernie today

but apparently, it wasn’t a good enough ‘boiling point,’ (unlike bitching about traffic or your coworkers) to make it on the goddamn sports talk show.

by saul wright on Jan 26, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Olney tweeted this today:

A Cubs fan immediately replied to it, Buster claims its all relative

RE-SIGN EVERYONE

by Notorious PSC on Jan 26, 2012 2:17 PM EST reply actions  

relative to some jamoke off the street

theriot is an excellent baseball player with tons of power

Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6

by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jan 26, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Career ISO

Theriot: .072
Valdez: .088

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

woah SBN

new twitter formatting? nice!

by hr on Jan 26, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

There's an embed option in twitter

not sure if it was there before. I just copy and pasted it on over here, way easier than coding an entire thing

RE-SIGN EVERYONE

by Notorious PSC on Jan 26, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I have no idea how to do these Twitter screen grabs.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

like this?

Sadly, this doesn’t look the same in preview as his does, but here’s how I got here:

1. select the individual tweet
2. then “Details”
3. “Embed this tweet”

From there decide if you want HTML, shortcode, or link and copy and paste the text from the box.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Joe Buck, you're my hero.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't get it...

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Joe Buck's likeability has increased infinitely since his arrival on Twitter

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

i just don't get "facial tick".

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Well it means...

good point.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah it was a bad joke

but it was at the top of my timeline so I used it for a test run of embedding

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

But Theriot's career ISO is 16 points lower than Valdez's.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

It is what it is.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

question, i was reading this
he idea of course is to use these values to create a quick measure of how good a pitch is. You can find these values fairly easily on fangraphs under Pitch Values. So according to these values, the two most effective fastballs (per pitch) last year belonged to Tim Hudson (okay sinkerballer) and Ted Lilly.

src

i can’t see the evidence of that on fangraphs or am i looking in the wrong place?

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Jan 26, 2012 2:28 PM EST reply actions  

Fangraphs might've reclassified or someothing

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

here

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=14&season=2010&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0&sort=8,d

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=14&season=2010&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0&sort=3,d

Garik is using his own Pitch f/x database, so they will be a bit different than FanGraphs’ numbers. Maybe he’s combining fastballs, or has a slighlty different RV system.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Those both lead to error pages

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

what the shit

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

alright here

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=14&season=2010&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0

Ted Lily is 4th on the list for FA, and Hudson is first on the list for SI. That’s RV/100 pitches, which was what Garik was using.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

so if he's 4th, how is he one of the two most effective fastballs?

what do they use as a measure of an effective fastball? run values in the count? do they account for balls in play?

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Jan 26, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

btw, is wFA the average of all fastballs?

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Jan 26, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

hmm, not sure

i would suspect it’s a bit below 0 (in terms of fangraphs numbers, where positive is good). maybe like -.2.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

so basically in 2011

lohse got the best fb, carp the best slider and jaime outcurved everyone?
src

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Jan 26, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

they use run values adjusted for count

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/searching-for-the-games-best-pitch/

The difference between garik’s list and Fangraphs is the way they are defining fastball. Garik might be lumping all fastballs in together, whereas FanGraphs is using the MLB classifications (fourseamer, sinker, cutter, twoseamer). Or garik could be using his own classifications.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

i read that article but the run values for strikes change every year and at first look

i wasn’t able to recreate them looking at the 2007 bref avg numbers for the counts
i’m overlooking something

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Jan 26, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

i'd love to help you now, but it have to study for this test

i remember when i did them for my pitch f/x database i just used this:

http://www.cubsfx.com/2009/06/updating-linear-weight-values-by-count.html

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

oh boy. it's, uh, official, i guess?
“Miguel Cabrera will be playing third base. We’re going to old-fashioned baseball, powers at the corners.” – Jim Leyland.

mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble

by tehzachatak on Jan 26, 2012 2:38 PM EST reply actions  

You left out the rest of the quote. . .
And horrid defense. At first we petitioned the Comissioner’s office to let us play without gloves for the 2012 season, or at least those work gloves kind that didn’t have any webbing that the turn of the century player used. They said no, so we decided to do the next best thing and move Miggy to the Hot Corner.
- Jim Leyland

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 26, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Found this tweet by Strauss funny, regarding Cabrera and Fielder
At the postgame spread, no question. RT @ClydeHurley: @JoeStrauss safe to say fielder/Cabrera most lethal duo in bigs?

by avs18fan on Jan 26, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

So Cabrera or Mark Reynolds with more errors at 3B last year?

Give me Migs.

Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.

by lightbulb on Jan 26, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

crap

last year
next year

Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.

by lightbulb on Jan 26, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Again...Cabrera at 3B, Fielder at 1B, and their pitchers

BUNTING.
LOTS OF BUNTING.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

So instead of the 2006 World Series motto of "Hit it to the Pitcher"

we now have “Bunt it anywhere in in the Infield”

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember, this is the American League

Teams don’t pussy out by bunting. Unless those teams are coached by Mike Scioscia, in which case, fuck ’em.

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Jan 27, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sure he'll get some time there this year

But like I said before, he’s actually got good hands and decent straight line speed, he just ate himself off of 3B. If he drops 30 pounds (probably more) he’ll be perfectly acceptable at 3B.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

My god he has some big arms

I’d venture to say he’s lost some weight since last year, but he’s still got a ways to go.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

He's probably 260...

plus Fielder at 300…. Give it a year or two and the Tigers will have 600lbs at the corners.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

holy shit.

his arms are as big around as my upper body.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

...

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Colonel Sanders says medulla oblongata makes alligators ornery

and not because they got all them teeth and no toothbrush

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Jan 26, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I love that movie

By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. - George Carlin

My Google+ Page |

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jan 26, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I smell another meme

someone put them in front of the home run display

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Looks like they posed twice in the same day.

They’re wearing the same clothes.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Seriously, what the shit is this

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 2:40 PM EST reply actions  

i posted picks late last night of closeups of the monstrosity

Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6

by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jan 26, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

it's smaller than i thought

it’s kind of a relief
/no jokes

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Jan 26, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

By that time it will have eaten 3 CFs.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it bad that I hate you

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Awesomeness in progress.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Brisbee has

more pictures here…

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

did they find any clay samurai warriors?

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't wait to see the fishtanks

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 26, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

That part could actually be cool

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

More than a signle tear that Mather is a Cub now

He was my favorite Springfield Cardinal while he was down here.

I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.

by Sir Sci on Jan 26, 2012 3:09 PM EST reply actions  

Oswalt Signs
The Cardinals have announced that Roy Oswalt has signed a 1 year, $5 million deal to join the defending World Champions. Through his agent, Oswalt issued a press release citing the Redbirds’ fair treatment of veteran players as one of the reasons he turned down more money from other suitors, “The Cardinals treat veterans right,” said the 34 year old former Cardinal nemesis, “I mean, most organizations would have let solid major leaguers like Kyle McClellan and Skip Schumaker look for another employer and tried to find a cheaper alternative in the never-ending search for ‘surplus value’, but not the Cardinals. I value loyalty like that.”

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jan 26, 2012 3:10 PM EST reply actions   3 recs

this guy...

"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit

by BVHeck on Jan 26, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

hah

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

My heart leapt...

and then steadied into a evil smile…

"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig

by pattimagee on Jan 26, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

revenge is a dish best served cold

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I will cut you

2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 26, 2012 6:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I know Mayo's top 100 list was discussed a little yesterday

But having only 2 cardinals on the list is silly…and having billy Hamilton in the top 40 is just gross

2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 26, 2012 3:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Cardinal trivia

Four Cardinal catchers have earned Gold Gloves while wearing the Birds on the Bat. One has 4, two have 3 and the fourth earned 1.
Can you name 1 of the 4 without looking it up ?

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 3:30 PM EST reply actions  

Yes.

PRETTY EASY QUESTION LOLOLOL

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

But it's a trick question

Because only 3 cardinals catchers have won gold gloves. The other one didn’t win until the year after he was traded to Pittsburgh.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

by mtzxc on Jan 26, 2012 9:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It's not just a trick question

the assumption is dead wrong. He specifically says 4 catchers earned GGs “while wearing the Birds on the Bat”. Lavalliere won his only GG while with Pittsburgh, and the last time I looked, the ‘87 Pirates didn’t have a BotB logo on their uniform.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

is there a typo here?

1/4 is pretty easy…

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

The first 2-3 will be easy. The last 1-2 will be tougher.

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

molina.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep.

Yadi has 4 Gold Gloves in the past 4 seasons

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Molina, Matheny, Pagnozzi, and Pena is my guess.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

One of these is not like the others

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm assuming this cryptic response means that Pena did not win a GG while playing for the Cards.

I wondered if he had when I typed his name.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Right

Matheny earned 4 (3 while a Cardinal) and Pagnozzi earned 3. As noted earlier, Yadi has 4

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not going to guess again because I looked up my second guess before typing it.

I can’t believe I forgot him.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope

None for Simba

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I really hope someone gets this.

I can’t believe I didn’t.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

The fourth Cardinal catcher to earn a Gold Glove is Mike Lavalliere in 1987

Nicknamed Spanky for his uncanny resemblance to the Our Gang/The Little Rascals character. Traded to the Pirates along with Andy Van Slyke for Tony Pena in one the Cards’ most infamous trades. Pena achieved a mere 1.4 bWAR in his 3 seasons as a Cardinal. Lavalliere alone had 5.7 bWAR in those same three seasons. Van Slyke achieved 15.0 bWAR over those three seasons and wound up giving the Pirates 31.0 bWAR over 8 seasons.

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually he won in 1987

His first year with the Pirates. Only 3 cardinals catchers have won a gold glove.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

by mtzxc on Jan 26, 2012 9:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Whoops

Wasn’t supposed to be a trick question. Came across a wiki page that showed Lavalliere as a 1987 Cardinal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NL_Gold_Glove_winners_at_catcher
He clearly was a Pirate when he won in 1987. f’n wiki

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I just updated that page with the correct info.

Not sure how long it will take to show it, but looks like it might already be there.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Your fix has taken hold.

Thanks. Durn thing made me look like a fool.

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Francis is a good sign for Cinci

Simply because he’s better than Arroyo right now. He should be their 5th starter going into the season. In fact, he’s about league average, so he’s probably better than Westbrook as well.

Does anyone else think Rich Harden would be a perfect fit for us? Not sure he can throw more than 80-odd innings per season anymore, but that makes him an ideal backup/5th starter type who could work his way in through the bullpen. He’s still a big K guy (nearly 10K/9 last year as a starter) and seems to me to be all upside if he’ll sign for a $3-4m one-year deal or something. He might be within our price range even if Oswalt isn’t.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 26, 2012 3:59 PM EST reply actions  

I wish we would have signed Francis (rotation and LOOGY insurance) to a minor-league deal and that we sign Harden.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Cool

Since I know VEB has some mad photshopping skills (minus me), it’d be cool if someone could “do the Laird’s work” and take the last image (the small bird on the bat with no “CARDINALS” script on it) and replicate that bird up and down the bat to represent the 11 WS titles. Then try to add the year in somewhere above, below or maybe on the bat.

Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.

by lightbulb on Jan 26, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

That would be bitchin'!

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Noice

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Strange question

That’s an awful lot of male cardinals. Where are all the lady cardinals? Doesn’t it seem odd that we have a “clone-like army” of Cardinals marching off into infinity, producing world series championships? Hmm…

I think I’ll go back to my chocolate milkshake now… (slurp).

by JWO on Jan 26, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Boomshakalaka

Thanks!

Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.

by lightbulb on Jan 26, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Applause

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Lovely!

"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig

by pattimagee on Jan 26, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

This was actually posted in a fanshot recently

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

It's pretty cool all the same.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't know if anyone else posted this

Happy Birthday, Mr. Uecker!
Don’t know if that’ll show up for anybody else, but it’s a picture of him in a Cardinals uniform, playing a sousaphone (tuba).

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Jan 26, 2012 4:14 PM EST reply actions  

show's up just fine if you click the link

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

When asked about the picture, Ueck said:

“They gave it to me because they thought I’d have a better chance of a catching the ball with a tuba than with my glove.”

Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.

by lightbulb on Jan 26, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

St. Louis residents: Craig Calcaterra will be on KMOX in about five minutes.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 5:18 PM EST reply actions  

it's radio. 1120 AM.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

SIX TRILLION WATTS OF POWER. 1120 AM. KMOX, ST. LOUIS.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

while that's impressive ...

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Prince Fielder on ESPN being interviewed

They asked him what it took to get him to go there, and he smiled and really had no answer. Was clearly thinking “the money.”

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2012 5:21 PM EST reply actions  

they showed him respect

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

let him know they "wanted him"

so he wasn’t induced to “cried”

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

He really got the commitment he was looking for.

I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.

by Sir Sci on Jan 26, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

WOAH

maybe this is NexDef’d news, but according to FESPN, Prince Fielder isn’t really a vegetarian, or vegan.

Fielder did want to debunk one thing: Back in 2008, he talked about becoming a vegetarian, but that apparently didn’t last long after all the commotion.

“I’m not a vegetarian,” he said. “I was, for like three months.”

mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble

by tehzachatak on Jan 26, 2012 6:29 PM EST reply actions  

yeah, i posted this a while back.

i felt strangely vindicated for my dietary choices.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Make a flit mignon

Cut a cylinder out of the middle. Voila! You now have a steak donut, and a bonus steak donut hole.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

flit mignon???

Ahem. Filet mignon.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

PHILAY MEEGNONE

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I HATE TEH PHILLAYS

I HOPE BRAVS WIN NL EAST

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Stay focused people

Marlins.

Craig Sager.

Home Run Display.

Together, as they were meant to be.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

LoMoGoHoRoFoSho?

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

#nohomojustlomo

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

#LoMoing

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

This has to be one of Prince's favorites

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 26, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm on board with this...

but the patty is just silly. Too difficult to eat.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that's actually a meatloaf.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

No kidding

what is that garbage between the cheese and the top half of the donut. Gross.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This is an official medical opinion

DO NOT EAT VEGETABLES, IT IS BAD FOR THE DONUTS

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 26, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm an ardent supporter of a low vegetable diet

potatoes, green beans, and the occasional carrot…thats it

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 26, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

so, didn't claw your way to the top of the food chain

so you could eat vegetables?

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Jan 27, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

He's versatile.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

OSWALT

According to MLB Trade Rumors, Red Sox offered $5 million (one year) and Cardinals HAVE made an offer, undisclosed terms. Cards also have offered Edwin Jackson (undisclosed).

Sounds to me like Westbrook wil be “no more.”

by RedAllOver on Jan 26, 2012 7:10 PM EST reply actions  

you know this?

additionally, i notice you say “we”. are you in the front office?

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

How do you know he isn't?

Online anonymity.

I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.

by Sir Sci on Jan 26, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Um, okay... thanks

And since you have this inside knowledge, why hasn’t RoyO jumped at the higher offer (particularly when he has stated a desire to play for the Cards in the past)?

by OCCardsFan on Jan 26, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Would be nice if Westbrook stopped being a raven

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

fuck jackson

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

ah damn

it’s on

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

No

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 26, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it my imagination

or did BRef’s numbers on all their tables just get italicized?

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope

Assuming we could get Oswalt for a shorter deal, anyway. But Edwin is younger and healthier (probably).

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

On a 1-year deal

I think I would prefer Jackson, based on last year’s fWAR comparisons, 6-year age difference, and Oswalt’s back issues. There were some earlier indications that he’d be willing to sign a 1-year deal, but with the interest heating up in him from Boston and Baltimore, I don’t see this happening.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I think everyone here would prefer Owsalt to EJ

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

heh

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

YUP

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

You don't know me, toker.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

OT, for NFL history buffs, just picked up from Itunes,

1971 SB, Dolphins vs Cowboys
1974 SB, Steelers vs Vikings
1975 SB, Steelers vs Cowboys
1976 SB, Raiders vs Vikings

Itunes also had greatest games for the 49er’s, Giants, Packers, Titians.

by Tuning in from Korea on Jan 26, 2012 8:01 PM EST reply actions  

Why doesn't MLB do this?

I want the 1987 NLCS.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 26, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya, it would be nice, I think the earliest game I've picked up on baseball from Itunes, is

Game 7 of the 64 WS between the Dodgers and Twins, pitchers are Koufax going against Kaat.
I don’t think they have those games available anymore or not, I picked this one up a few years ago.

by Tuning in from Korea on Jan 26, 2012 8:08 PM EST reply actions  

The WS in '64 was between the Cardinals and the Yankees.

Koufax only pitched for the Dodgers. Game 7 of that series was Gibby vs. Mel Stottlemyre, who only went 4 innings, followed by Al Downing (faced 3 batters in the fifth, all 3 scored), Rollie Sheldon, Steve Hamilton and Pete Mikkelsen. Cards won, 7-5.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he meant 1965

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, was just about to post this.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya, i stand corrected, sometimes my eyeballs see something and my fingers type something else

course it could be I just listened to the 64 game 7 radio broadcast a few backs and that is still in my mind..

by Tuning in from Korea on Jan 26, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting tidbit

since the mid-70s, when teams started going to the 5-man rotation, the days of pitchers with 40 starts in a season have all disappeared. In fact, in the last 25 years, there’s only one occurrence of a 40-start season. Name the pitcher and his team.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

whenever i don't know an answer, it's always phil niekro.

so, i’ll say niekro and the yankees.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

No, if you don't know the answer, it's always Honus Wagner

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

honus wagner didn't pitch in the mid 70s.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Carl Yastrzemski is usually a good guess

to unknown baseball trivia questions

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 26, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

well, i wasn't far wrong. niekro pitched 44 starts in 1979, which was 32 seasons ago.

it was for the braves, though.

at age 40, too.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking a knuckleballer like Wilbur Wood

but he pitched too long ago. I don’t believe Wakefield ever did, but I suspect I’m on the right track by thinking knuckleballer.

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 27, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah, wilbur wood was my first thought, too

mainly I just wanted another chance to look at his crazy career.

by DanUpBaby on Jan 27, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Remember when he started and lost

both ends of a doubleheader ?

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 27, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions  

It was, in fact, a knuckleballer.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 27, 2012 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Charlie Hough ?

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 27, 2012 1:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 27, 2012 6:56 AM EST up reply actions  

He made 40 starts in 1987 for the Rangers

the last pitcher to do so.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 27, 2012 6:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I usually go with Nolan Ryan

but I’m often wrong.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

it’’s not Nolan Ryan, but Ryan and this pitcher were teammates in ‘89-’90.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 27, 2012 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

who would you rather have...

Oswalt or Jackson? I’m in the EJax camp, Roy is too old.

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 9:10 PM EST reply actions  

EJax will cost a lot more money

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

definitely, he reportedly has a multi-year deal on the table

oswalt will probably sign for 5 mil.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

well then he's ours!

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I would definitely not like to sign him to a contract that is not in our best interest

what would you think if they somehow got him to sign for just a year?

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

uhhh

i think it’d still prefer Oswalt. Jackson’s probably a better bet because he’s younger, but Oswalt’s one of my favorite pitchers and I hate Jackson.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

ah

I see… I’ve always disliked Oswalt, and kinda like Jackson because he seems like a nice guy.

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

oh, i'm just talking about their pitching styles

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

now I see

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Bill James hates Edwin Jackson compared to the other projection systems

also I did not realize Oswalt was projected to be a 3.50 FIP pitcher next season. may have to re-evaluate my thinking here.

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

meh, that doesn't make me hate a player.

We went to the world series before and won the world series after. Mulder is Mulder. My feelings are not hurt by quality opponents, this is why I love Chris Carpenter.

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 26, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

stupid baseball rivalry that I'm not above

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess there are some teams that the players are forever tainted,

the Astros are just not one of those teams.

…..welcome to the 2012 Cardinals, btw.

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 26, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd certainly change my mind:

1. if he ends up on the team

and

2. he does well.

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

just like berkman, right?

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

he can only dream!

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 27, 2012 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I can see Berkman briefing all of the aging vets that join the posse.

“We have something cool here guys, don’t fuck it up by sucking and scaring off future vet signees.”

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 27, 2012 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

the cardinals are the field of dreams for aging Astros

they just want to play ball

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 27, 2012 6:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Old is irrelevant. At this point, we're only bringing them on if it's a one year deal

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 26, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, I guess so

just read up there that we offered $ to Jackson, so thought I’d post this

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree. whichever will come for less money and a one-year deal.

i guess i’d take jackson if they both asked for the same amount for one-year, for the lesser injury risk.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I think I would go with Oswalt all things being equal

Jackson is inconsistent by nature. Oswalt’s health is inconsistent by nature. Since we have suitable replacements if Oswalt bites the dust, I think I would go with him over Jackson “I might do well in a contract setting playoff game, but I’ll probably get lit up”.

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 26, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

same amount both one year

since they project pretty similar i would take oswalt because he’s small and max effort which is fun to watch. jackson is a sloth on the mound.

by Wombat x on Jan 26, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Watching this baseball IQ show on mlbn

Category: Duncan’s left and right hand men….

List the 20 pitchers who won 16+ under Duncan/LaRussa….

Guesses anyone?

by mick311 on Jan 26, 2012 9:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

He lost the game on a question where he

Needed to list the all time leaders for home runs hit in the NL and Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa still had not been named.

by mick311 on Jan 26, 2012 9:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Yes he did.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

How about

Dave Stewart, Carpenter, Wainwright, Suppan, Bottenfeld to start.

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 26, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

But Dunccccc...

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

You have something against pitchers

with 10-letter last names that begin with S?

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Now that you mention it...

I do hate Saberhagen, Suttcliffe, and Samardzija. And Simontacci was a bum. But Stotlemyer was a fave.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

(It's an even year. No need to hate Saberhagen this year.)

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I like how you stole one of Stottlemyre's "t"s

and gave it to Sutcliffe.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, you left out the "h" in Simontacchi.

Not everyone can have 10 letters in their surname.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Phew.

Just made the cut.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

didn't marquis win 16 one year?

morris. kile. i think woody williams did.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

30-30 guys since 2000

they both get their first guess wrong guessing bonds and a rod. really?? there are 3 alone in 2011. terrible man

by Wombat x on Jan 26, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I've been watching 30 Rock for the past few days

It’s really funny. I love Tracy and Jack.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:25 PM EST reply actions  

I'm glad I'm not the only person this happens to.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

this used to happen to me

until i watched 30 rock and realized it’s ridiculously better

by prophetjohn on Jan 26, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

It's bad when you get drawn into a show

and decide the most reasonable rationale is to watch all of the seasons as quickly as possible so you can continue with ordinary life.

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 26, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Like me when I watched Cowboy Bebop the whole way through (for the first time)

I don’t think my brother and I saw the sun that weekend.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 27, 2012 7:30 AM EST up reply actions  

i know, and it scars you later

I always feel a little empty when I’m not watching any tv show.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 27, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, from watching the ads for "Scare Tactics"

I’m guessing he’s not acting. And in any given year, he has to be up for the Worst Actor award, doesn’t he?

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 27, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Would someone take the shovel away from Rains?

This is hard to watch.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 9:46 PM EST reply actions  

He's falling all over himself apologizing for some dumb tweets

but he’s just making it worse.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

sounds like he's fanging

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2012 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I've never paid any attention..

to him… sounds like he takes a lot of abuse from a wide range of people.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

i kind of feel sorry for the guy.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what everyone says...

is he just the dorky kid who gets picked on all the time?

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty much.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

poor guy.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

People probably hate him because his last name got him a good job...

this kind of thing has been savaged in the press recently.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

he sets himself up for alot of it though

tweets things that are just asking for people to jump on him for. i don’t think he does it on purpose, i think he has no self awareness on twitter

by Wombat x on Jan 26, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

He's bad at twitter...

Who wants 15 identical apology tweets on their feed?

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 26, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah its painful to read

he won’t let it end, he’s said “my bad” like 8 different ways already.

by Wombat x on Jan 26, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah it's getting pretty ridiculous

also, people are stupid.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

MLBN, you are really testing me.

Half hour show dedicated to Millar’s “GOT HEEEM!” bit.

/looksatcalendar

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 10:01 PM EST reply actions  

I don't know what this NHL fantasy draft thing is about

but I instantly switched over to it.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I located a No Reservations that I haven't seen.

Bourdain versus the Amazon

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 26, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Good show

Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6

by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jan 26, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Just started playing game 7 of the World Series

on The Show. It actually came down to Cards vs. Rangers and I’ve got Carp going on short rest. They’re countering with Colby Lewis.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

you should liveblog it.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

too much effort and time

I’ve got to get this over with so I can get to bed. But I may pop in with an update here and there.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

ok, I lied

update: 2-1 after 1. Berk Berked a 2 run double off the top of the wall and Michael Young took Carp deep on a hanging curveball.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

i await further updates eagerly.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

uneventful second

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Carp settling in

hasn’t allowed anything since the Young dinger. Baserunning shenanigans and a ridiculous diving play by Andrus cost us a run in the top of the 3rd. Still 2-1.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Bullpen phones working well

Waino and Jackson throwing up in the pen now. Carp hung another curve. . . this time to Moreland. Luckily we scored on a Berk single followed by a Craig double. More TOOTBLAN after the double cuts the rally short. I really suck at teh baserunning. 3-2 after four.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

why is waino in the pen?

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Jan 26, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

cant hold anything back now, Brent

we resume play following a brief diaper changing intermission.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Descalso moves to 2/2 but fails to advance past second

DD now hitting over .600 for the post season. Sign of things to come? Carp ends his night (possibly?) with his second strikeout of the red hot Andrus (.450 for the post season).

We resume play shortly withe Pujols, Holliday, and Berkman up following another baby induced intermission.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

AND BOOM GOES THE BERKAMITE

two run dinger to make it 5-2. Crazy Tony lets Carp face the top of the order again and he gets through six. And I think the baby is asleep now.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions  

This one's all Berk

eventful 7th, but no runs score. Went with Jackson out of the pen. A double, a walk, a ground out and 2K’s later, it’s on to the 8th.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

And breathe

Pujols, Holliday, Berkman produce nada in the 8th. Jackson goes back out, gets the first two, then gives up a single to Young. Scrabble in to face Moreland and Hamilton. Moreland singles and Hamilton flies out to the track in CF to send it to the ninth. Three outs away!

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

CARDS WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Motte shuts them down in the 9th to earn the save! Berk player of the game 3/4 2B, HR, 4RBI and 2 R

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Holliday's "moment" was being named WS MVP

even though Berk’s play overshadowed him

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 27, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess that's a fitting moment,

given the contrast with his currently overlooked achievements with the Cardinals.

by RasmustheRipper on Jan 27, 2012 1:16 AM EST up reply actions  

For some reason when I play the Show

Desclaso is fucking awesome too. You should download the full minors roster online, it has all prospects for all teams….Shelby is ridiculous and Cox is also very good, which can be helpful bc Freese just really sucks for some reason. I.played an entire postseason on my game and hit like .080 with him for some reason.

by mick311 on Jan 27, 2012 12:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

way ahead of you

you know you can make changes to try to make guys more accurate to their actual abilities, right?

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 27, 2012 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

That one was pretty interesting

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 27, 2012 7:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait.

Wait, wait, wait.

The NHL is picking sides for their All-Star Game? Like kids picking teams down by the ol’ frozen pond?

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 10:19 PM EST reply actions  

started last year

apparently Elliot went ahead of Jimmy Howard

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I will confess

this is the first time in about 5 years that I’ve been even mildly interested in the NHL All-Star Game.

Also, I just noticed that they’re using an official LNH shield- Ligue Nationale de Hockey

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 26, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I noticed the LNH thing a few nights ago watching Montreal play on NHL Network

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 26, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

So

We’ve made offers to both EJ and Oswalt?

That’s….interesting

2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 26, 2012 10:29 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

apropos of nothing, pete seeger signing "summertime" is fucking awesome.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2012 10:44 PM EST reply actions  

to wit, the following.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

is that the johnny cash show they're performing on?

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

tons of great stuff from that show on the youtube.

by saul wright on Jan 27, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

6 players from the begining of time

Cap Anson 1871-1894
Bobby Wallace 1894-1918
Jimmy Dykes 1918-1939
Early Winn 1939-1963
Tommy John 1963-1989
Omar Vizquel 1989-2011

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Jan 27, 2012 12:17 AM EST reply actions  

missing george brett at least

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 27, 2012 12:30 AM EST up reply actions  

No, just 6 players

that had overlapping careers extending back to 1871. I think this is the only way to get there with 6 players.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Jan 27, 2012 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

huh

that’s interesting

RE-SIGN EVERYONE

by Notorious PSC on Jan 27, 2012 1:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Players to homer in 4 different decades

I know this one, since I was just reading about Willie McCovey

McCovey
Vizquel
Teddy Ballgame
Ricky Henderson

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 27, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Just a list

of players with overlapping careers that go back to 1871. I don’t think there is another way to do this with 6 players.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Jan 27, 2012 12:34 AM EST reply actions  

Rangers offer Oswalt $7.5 million

…But no place in rotation unless Harrison relieves. I think he chooses between us and them in the next few days. He wants to start, and here he will.

by RedAllOver on Jan 27, 2012 5:50 AM EST reply actions  

Are we really looking at a team that might have as many as

6 lefties plus 3 switch-hitters for the start of this season, with only 4 guys who are solely right-handed hitters (Yadi, Tyler, David and Matt)? If we bring up Carpenter to replace Craig until he’s ready to come off the DL, and Anderson gets chosen over Cruz, this would be our situation. Makes me hope we send Komatsu back to Washington, just to get another RH bat on the bench (Tommy Pham, c’mon down!)

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 27, 2012 9:01 AM EST reply actions  


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