An Appreciation of Former St. Louis Cardinals' Shortstop David Eckstein's Tangibles
by bgh on Jan 22, 2012 1:21 PM EST
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That former St. Louis Cardinals shortstop David Eckstein is officially retiring from the game of baseball, as reported by Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe, should come as little surprise. After his 1.9-fWAR season in 2010 with the Padres, Eckstein did not receive a contract for the 2011 season. [UPDATE: Although, Jon Heyman tweets that Eckstein turned down a contract offer from the Mariners for 2011.] The 37-year-old is hanging up his cleats after ten big-league seasons "even though there were teams willing to bring him into camp" this year, according to Cafardo.
Eckstein is listed at five feet, seven inches tall. I mention this because there is a rule that any newspaper article or blog post about Eckstein must include his relatively short height. His short stature led combined with his style of play led to sportswriters casting him as an underdog who got more out of his talent than other, more-talented players. And it was this narrative that led to a backlash against the player, a backlash that was led by Fire Joe Morgan.
It is not Eckstein's fault that he became the poster boy for intangibles such as heart, hustle, grit, and baseball smarts. It is not the player's fault that questions from the media caused smart baseball men like Joe Maddon to say things like "Even if he goes 0-for-4 and makes three errors, he helps you." No, it is not Eckstein's fault that baseball people and sportswriters discuss him with backhanded compliments that downplay his skill and play up his intangibles.
Eckstein may have had the greatest combination of intangibles in baseball history. Unfortunately, we'll never know because they're intangibles. The singular focus and resultant battle over his indefinable characteristics unfairly marginalized the reality that Eckstein was a pretty valuable ballplayer in the tangible sense, especially for the Cardinals.
After the 2004 season, the Cardinals failed to sign their incumbent shortstop, Edgar Renteria, to a new contract. Renteria opted instead to sign with the Red Sox, replacing Boston's own free agent shortstop Miguel Orlando Cabrera. Cabrera was signed by the Angels to replace the free agnet Eckstein. As a part of this Hot Stove shortstop shuffle, Eckstein signed with the Cardinals.
In 2004, Eckstein had a season on par with Renteria and better than Cabrera. Eckstein posted 2.3 fWAR that season to Renteria's 2.3 and Cabrera's 0.5. Eckstein received a three-year deal from the Cardinals at a fraction of the salary for which the Red Sox signed Renteria and the Angels signed Cabrera. In 2005, Eckstein had his best season wearing The Birds On The Bat. In 2006 and 2007, Eckstein's numbers would suffer due to injuries. Nonetheless, Eckstein was still a positive value for the Cardinals over the life of his contract.
|
Year |
PA |
BA |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
OPS+ |
wOBA |
fWAR |
|
2005 |
713 |
.294 |
.363 |
.395 |
.758 |
99 |
.335 |
3.0 |
|
2006 |
552 |
.292 |
.350 |
.344 |
.694 |
80 |
.310 |
1.8 |
|
2007 |
484 |
.309 |
.356 |
.382 |
.739 |
93 |
.333 |
1.0 |
After making 713 Plate Appearances (PA) in 2005, Eckstein made 552 in 2006 and just 484 in 2007. Without the nagging injuries he dealt with during the final two-thirds of his contract, he would have been a great value for the Cardinals. As it was, he was still worth what he was paid over the duration of his contract and more.
As a Cardinal, Eckstein produced 5.8 fWAR while earning $10.2 million. According Fangraphs' Value table, Eckstein was worth $21.2 million to the Cardinals. This is due largely to his 3.0-fWAR 2005 which was worth $10.2 million--or, the dollar amount of his entire contract--according to Fangraphs. Even if his much-ballyhooed yet impossible-to-value intangibles are worth nothing at all, Eckstein was a very nice signing for the Cardinals. If you, like me, believe that Eckstein's intangibles are worth something, then he was an even better signing.
It is a shame that Eckstein has become a symbol for bad sportswriting and a player to be derided by the statistically inclined. The battle lines regarding Eckstein have hardened into a false choice. To praise Eckstein for his production is not to buy into the mythical Eckstein of the newspaper page. Indeed, one can at once appreciate Eckstein for his solid contribution to the Cardinals during his time as the club's shortstop without buying into his unquantifiable grittiness. On this, the day of his retirement, I propose that we do just that. Whether Eckstein's intangibles helped the Cardinals win ballgames or not, Eckstein was a valuable contributor in a very tangible sense to a team that won 100 games in 2005 and another that won the 2006 World Series.
[UPDATE: Ken Rosenthal tweets that Eckstein's agent has shot down the rumors regarding Eckstein's retirement. Eckstein has not retired and, "if the right opportunity arises, he will play." Nonetheless, we can still appreciate Eckstein's tangibles as a Cardinal.]
If you have not yet done so, please let Azruavatar know which bars you feel should be added to the bar section of his VEB's Guide to St. Louis project.
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Eckstein's bWAR
05: 4.2
06: 2.2
07: 1.6
gWAR
3.6, 2, 1.3 (god I am bored)
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 1:33 PM EST reply actions
2005?
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
GeorgeWAR?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
general WAR
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
What's general WAR?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
read my fanpost duh
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 23, 2012 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
gnomeWAR
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 22, 2012 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Ok, I lol'd
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 23, 2012 12:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
THE BAND GWAR
DUH
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 23, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
People dont read fanposts any more i guess
Last one i write for a while
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 23, 2012 10:58 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I like GeorgeWAR better...
;-)
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
I'm losin it again
NEED MOAR BASEBALL
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 23, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
I for one read the fan posts CFiC
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 23, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
cool
this last one I was really trying to wrap my brain around the two WAR versions… but despite what I had read I thought bWAR had a certain adjustment and fWAR didn’t, but I guess that wasn’t the case.
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 23, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
I was actually forced to watch that movie.
It was better than I thought it would be.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
We gnomes are proud to count David Eckstein among our ranks.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Jan 23, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
the Shelby Miller facebook profile is posting like crazy lately
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 1:34 PM EST reply actions
The No. 1 "Related Fanshot" from the SBN bot:
RiverRat’s “Miles Back On A Minor League Deal” from over one year ago. No mention of Eckstein in it; just a mention of grit.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
2005 or 2006
I remember a stat that 91% of the time that he swung at a pitch he made contact.
I preferred Renteria, but Eck filled a big need. Plus the walkoff GS!
by openside on Jan 22, 2012 1:40 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Renteria was unquestionably the superior player but Eckstein was a good value as a replacement.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
IIRC, Renteria got a 4 year, $40 million deal from Boston.
Eckstein got a 3 year, $10 million deal from the Cardinals.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
whats interesting about this, is that since Renteria left,
The Cardinals haven’t spent $40 million on their starting SS’s.
Eckstein (‘05-’07) – $10 million
Izturis (‘08) – $2.85 million
K. Greene (’09) – $6.5 million
Ryan (‘10) – $425,000
Theriot (’11) – $3.3 million
Furcal (‘12-’13) – $14 million
That comes out to be $37.075 million
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
and if Ryan Jackson takes over after Furcal,
it may take until 2016 or 2017 for them to cross the $40 million mark
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Khalil Greene - ouch
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 22, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
shudder
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
It seemed worth trying at the time. Who could know that he had a ruptured ligament in his brain?
I don’t mean to trivialize that, btw. The man’s issues were real, and I feel sorry for him. Furthermore, guys like K-Greene and Greinke demonstrate that there’s a mental aspect to baseball that teams generally don’t handle as well as they handle physical injuries, even more from a scouting perspective than from a fix-it standpoint. Greene may have done the Cardinals a favor by making them more aware that they had to pay attention to that when evaluating prospects or making trades.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 22, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
were his issues not known or were they minimized/misrepresented? Or did the cards just not handle him correctly?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting question, and I don't know the answer.
Anybody?
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 22, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
IIRC
The problems were known before we traded for him though I think it was generally believed he was on the verge of or already over them.
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 22, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
That's how I remember it.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 22, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Even in society, Mental illness
is not handled as well as physical illness. Not surprising this carries over to baseball
Al: You know what they call a butterfly without wings Dan?
Dan: ...What, Al?
Al: A Butter-walk!
Dan:..........
by liars&thieves on Jan 22, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
Renteria got the longer contract and higher dollar amount because he was a far superior shortstop. And he produced at a far superior level to Eckstein. 11.5 fWAR worth $44.8MM. He got $36MM in salary according to Fangraphs, so Renteria provided $8.8MM in surplus value by Fangraphas’ measure of value. This is less in surplus than Eckstein produced but Renteria produced at a far higher level and was worth more than his salary.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This is not in dispute.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
I was at the walkoff GS game with my dad. It's one of my favorite memories of hanging out with him. It was his 1st and only MLB baseball game.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I typed Miguel Cabrera into Fangraphs at first, too, and still the mental mistake continued.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Orlando Cabrera is the Rodney Dangerfield of Colombian shortstops
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 22, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
no respect?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 22, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Random question
how many MVPs, if any, will Pujols win in the AL?
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
I think Pujols will be the 2012 American League MVP.
He could win two or three.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I actually think he'll destroy the league for 2 or 3 years.
with his numbers looking more like pre-2011 Albert
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
I'm already on record saying I think he'll win it next year.
I’ll say 1, but I do think he’ll be very good for the next couple years – a return to Pujolsian-ness if you will.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 22, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
If he does well in 2012, he'll be the front-runner because he's the new AL hotness.
Beyond that, it will depend on how much national coverage Anaheim gets, plus his performance.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
1
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
0
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
o/
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
thanks man ... that was turrible
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
arm ... getting .... very .... tire .... gasp ...... d
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
1
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
no you di-nt
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 22, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
OT- All right my degenerates where you at!
Ravens +7, Hakeem Nicks OVER 80.5 yards, Hakeem Nicks scored a TD, Eli OVER 37.5 passing attempts
I like all of those except Ravens +7.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 22, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
i am not all that confident in it but i hate the patriots so much
also fade the public, 73 percent of public bets are on the pats I read. i have no clue about the giants/49ers.
its a big number
but as long as the giants don’t jump out to a 10 point lead they are going to have to throw all day. you can’t run on the 49ers at all, they are going to have to throw. brees threw 60+ last week, i was on that over as well so figure i will keep riding it.
I dunno...
The Cardinals and Ravens recently beat them throwing well under 37. The Seahawks came close to beating them throwing under 37, and the Giants have gone under the last four or five games.
Sign Roy O
can't wait for the playoff games!
half an hour left. got my gin and juice ready for pregame. then a twelver wooooo.
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
I wish Sebek would leave BJ Rains alone.
Still not a werewolf.
by clank on Jan 22, 2012 2:34 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
What happened?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
...
Sebek:
Journalism, kids. RT @BJRains: Help Blues CEO Mike McCarthy’s cousin win a free wedding in Hawaii. Voting takes two seconds: (some link)…
Rains:
@MattSebek can I do anything without you taking a shot at me? Just curious.
Still not a werewolf.
Sebek rarely misses an opportunity to take a shot at BJ Rains.
That being said, why would Rains tweet that?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
To help some rich guy's cousin win a free wedding?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. Why would Rains care enough about the cousin of the Blues CEO to tweet that?
Especially given Rains’s position as a reporter.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, this was a poor example
But it’s the first time I can remember Rains getting sad over it.
Still not a werewolf.
I agree.
I’m sympathetic to Rains but that tweet deserved criticism.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I don't know why anyone would care enough to vote.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I have no idea. I often don't understand why he tweets what he does.
But I get tired of him constantly bullying him. We know he’s hardly the best journalist, but who takes him seriously? Strauss has a huge following and certainly knows it. Why not target him if you’re going to harass someone?
Still not a werewolf.
I agree with you.
I often think their should be a laugh track recording of “That’s our BJ Rains!” that plays when he tweets something silly. I view him as largely harmless. That being said, when Sebek slams Rains, I think he’s directing his attack at FSN Midwest. The entity deserves it. i think they do a rather poor job of being objective in their coverage.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I've never really expected objectivity from the outlet that carries the games
whatever that outlet is.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
They are a very grating broadcast duo.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey're grate!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but FSN Midwest is very bad.
Also, ESPN is getting much, much worse. With ESPN, I feel it’s a much bigger problem.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I pretty much ignore ESPN in its entirety, save the occasional web article.
There isn’t much left there that’s useful.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
That's very true.
I hardly go to their website nowadays. I don’t watch SportsCenter and I don’t watch Baseball Tonight. i live a largely ESPN-free existence. That being said, I believe their coverage of NCAA sports is the biggest problem, not baseball.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I've had an insider subscription (for which I paid $5) for a few years now
and the only articles I’ve ended up reading are Keith Law’s.
Still not a werewolf.
That's the only reason I'd get an Insider subscription.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Sebek is an unfunny, douchey fratboy.
Rains is a kind of gormless goodnik.
Rains is like manna from heaven for a schmuck like Sebek. However, that’s a stupid tweet, Rainsface.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Somebody call the waaaaambulance
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 22, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Completely thinking by the seat of my pants here
I, literally, just read on mlbtr.com that the Rays are looking to deal B.J. Upton and are specifically looking for a shortstop. I know lboros mentioned Upton as being a great addition in this piece so it got me to thinking.
If you do think he’d be a good acquisition going forward (of course you have to re-sign him), would a deal of Jon Jay, Ryan Jackson, (and something else?) be something you’d give up for Upton? Or maybe include one of our catchers since they apparently need a catcher too?
Sorry, I honestly suck at trades (making them up….I can judge one that i see pretty well, but can’t we all ;-). Just curious.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Greene for Upton straight up!
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
fwiw
Jay ave wOBA proj: .330 with slightly below ave defense at CF
BJ Upton: .343 with above ave defense
seems like it would be a decent upgrade. but what would the cost be… I think a lot of teams would like to trade for BJ Upton
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
If we were to go after Upton
it seems like we would have no place to put Craig when he returned from the DL. Rather than just have him sitting on the bench, why not offer him as part of the deal? I don’t want to see Craig leave, but having him on the bench for another year, after what he did last year, makes little to no sense to me, plus I think it would frustrate the hell out of him.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 22, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
if we trade Craig, to me it would indicate no confidence in his knee
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather deal Jay than Craig as part of a package.
They’d be trading away their center-fielder, and unless they have one ready to go, they’d need a competent centerfielder to fill the gap. Of course, Jay wouldn’t be the primary piece, but more of a throw-in. Our corner outfielders are old and Craig spells them well enough. We wouldn’t have too much use for Jay with Upton; however, Craig would still have a role.
Still not a werewolf.
I have a feeling, even if he never becomes the starting rightfielder
(and I have my doubts about Beltran taking over center…then again, I had doubts about Berkman playing a full year in right, so what do I know?)
Craig will get plenty (and by plenty, I mean a ton) of playing time once he comes back. If he’s healthy.
Hell, he might need some rest too after coming back from surgery. We really don’t know.
Nevertheless, I really don’t like the idea of trading Craig because he’s going to sit on the bench. Whether it’s because it’s not fair to him or whatever. The bottom line is, he’s better than Jay and, unless Craig’s starting in center, he’s a lot better than Jay. Choosing Jay over Craig is not well thought out.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
I don't think Craig will need rest so much as extended Spring Training to get his timing down.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Mulder should be ready by May too, right?
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
The medical professionals who are members of VEB seem to feel Craig should be fine upon his return.
So does my friend who is a PT. A broken kneecap is quite a bit different from shoulder surgery. I’m not that worried about Craig. After all, he played the second half of 2011 with a kneecap that needed surgery and hit very well. He’s a tough guy.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Especially shoulder surgery for a pitcher.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 22, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
that's fine.
But not having any concern could lead to a major disappointment.
I think he’ll be fine as well, I’m just not willing to guarantee anything.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Not sure if I made it clear, but yes, I'd rather have Craig than Jay.
Absolutely.
Still not a werewolf.
Craig plays a mean center field
I keed, of course everyone would want to keep Craig over Jay right now
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
But why would we need a centerfielder if we have Upton?
Of course, if everyone would rather have Craig, the Rays would undoubtedly feel the same, but Jay would hardly the centerpiece for any big trade. Just a nice addition.
Still not a werewolf.
I don't see us making any more major moves, if we are being serious
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not choosing to keep Jay over Craig
I’m just unsure of what Craig’s role is if Upton is in center, Holliday in left, Beltran in right and Berkman at first. Would Craig get playing time? More than likely. Would he get 400 PAs? I highly doubt it, unless someone gets injured (considering Berkman and Beltran’s ages, not unlikely, and Holliday isn’t exactly bullet-proof, either). The one thing Jay can do better than Craig is play CF. I think that’s all I’m saying.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 22, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
don't think that works; the rays have hak-ju lee
Who is one of the best SS prospects out there. If they’re looking for a SS, they mean somebody who’s going to play SS in 2012.
I don’t think jackson is what they want. While you could stick him on an MLB club this year, he’d be a real stretch as an everyday starting SS.
You could trade furcal to the rays, I guess, and start greene at shortstop. But that doesn’t strike me as a good deal for us, unless you’re optimistic on greene and pessimistic on furcal’s health.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 22, 2012 2:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
that was my first thought
we’d have to trade furcal
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
I'm unfamiliar with the Rays system, other than its excellence.
What exactly are they lacking?
Still not a werewolf.
apparently catcher
but I can’t confirm that.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Ah.
See, I always forget about what that Garza deal brought back.
Is it a consensus that Lee will be a viable major leaguer? I’m not saying Jackson will, but I wonder what their thoughts are on Lee.
And, btw, you’re right though. I doubt they’d want the exact same thing as they already have in the minors in return. They’d most likely want someone to play now.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
lee isn't as elite as jurickson profar, and he might be
A half-season or full season behind jackson in development. But I’d say lee is a significantly better prospect.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 22, 2012 3:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Rays probably don't want low-ceiling depth like your proposed package.
Their system is chock full of depth (and they have one of the best SS prospects in the minors in HJ Lee, as well as other guys like Tim Beckham and Jake Hager). And while TB needs a catcher, we don’t have any good C prospects to trade.
Surely TB is looking for an impact prospect for Upton – and unless we’re building a package around someone in our top 5, I don’t see it.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 22, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
not a chance
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hm
there’s a lot of salary relief in it for the Rays, and because Cleto is so much higher in the system than Rosenthal, Jenkins, etc., I’m not sure this isn’t about as good a package as we could reasonably offer. Not saying this means the Rays should be interested.
We "could" offer a lot more...
keep in mind Upton would bring draft pick compensation when he leaves.
Sign Roy O
how far would you go?
Jay/Greene/Cleto/+ starting pitching prospect?
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
or sub Furcal instead of Greene
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
You can't trade Furcal right after you sign him as a free agent...
Jay would be a throw-in just so they have someone to play CF… Beyond that they would want someone who could legitimately make up the two wins that they lose in moving from Upton to Jay. Then they’d want a top prospect to make up for the pick that they are losing. That just gets them to even. In addition they’d want someone to shore up a weak spot on their team for this year. The only two guys we have that would significantly improve their team are Craig and Motte (or possibly Lynn/Sanchez/Rzep depending on how they feel about those guys.
So I would guess Jay, Craig/Motte, and Adams (and maybe Greene) is about what they could expect. I would definitely not do this if I were running the Cardinals.
Sign Roy O
I see Jay as more than a "thrown-in"
whatever that means
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
It means he's not an important part of the trade...
he’s just a warm body who can get them to the next guy who will hopefully (if you’re a Rays fan) be an above average CFer.
Sign Roy O
Jay IS an above average CF
or at least better than most other CFs in this era. but yeah, sorry I’m just nitpicking.
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
desmond jennings is already there, right?
That’s why upton is for sale.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 22, 2012 3:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Or do they see him as a left fielder...
I don’t know. They do need an outfield if they trade Upton, unless they move Zobrist off second.
Sign Roy O
I agree
I think Upton would cost too much in trade, especially to a team like the Rays, who are likely just putting Upton up for trade to see who they can fleece.
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
good point about compensation
that said, what is a compensation pick actually worth? i can’t think the Cards would value it more than any of the top 8 or 10 in their system right now
would he?
or does that new rule only come into play if a player is traded in-season?
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
I like Cleto more than most but I don't know why TB would consider this deal.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 22, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure the Rays don't need a 3B.
Again, the Rays are going to be looking for an impact prospect – BA top 100 or ML guys like Craig. I’d say something like Craig + 2 B prospects.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 22, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
nooooooooooooooo
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Upton is a reliable four win center fielder...
with MVP upside, a low price tag, and he will bring draft pick compensation. A team will really have to pay to get him.
Sign Roy O
but that is so much for one dude, all eggs in one basket sort of deal
unless you meant Motte, Lynn, or Rzep.
I’m looking forward to watching the 1st 4 play and mature as cardinals, not hooked on Adams although his offense sounds promising with his successes in the MiLB system. Thoughts on if Adams can appreciably improve at 1st Base?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
don't know if you've heard the joke about the Brazilian aircraft going down in which all on board were killed
Girlfriend sitting next to guy on couch breaks out sobbing hysterically when she hears the news report, and all on board dying, boyfriend says I know it’s sad honey, but why are you so emotional over a few Brazilians dying?
She says: “a brazillion is just soooo many!!!!!!!!!”
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
I must be missing something.
This seems like an awful deal. Craig is a 2.5 win player (that’s pretty conservative). Upton is a 4 win player. Upton leaves next season.
Craig becomes a free agent in 2017. So if math works out we are trading 12.5 WAR for one season of 4 WAR over our current 2 WAR centerfielder.
And we’re throwing Lynn (Since he’s an unknown, the other two are good for 1 WAR making the deal way worse), and Adams in addition?
Yeah, I don’t want Upton if that’s what it takes.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 22, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
I get confused about the Uptons
I have it in my head that there is a good Upton and a bad one, and the good one is in Arizona. The BJ one hasn’t hit over .250 his last three seasons, and aren’t there rumors of his having a ‘bad attitude’? Moreover, he has a .288 strikeout avg over the last three years.
What is a strikeout average?
I don’t really care about his average by itself – quite misleading you see. Especially if you don’t factor in his defense, his on base skills, and his power.
Justin is better, but BJ’s pretty good too. Anyway, Upton’s a plus fielder at center with a .331 OBP. That’s pretty good.
However, I don’t think whatever is being offered is worth it.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 23, 2012 2:26 AM EST up reply actions
I wish somebody'd tailored that extra small jacket
To david’s size before they put him on national tv.
Good article, azru. I’m glad we got david. I’m just as glad we didn’t extend him.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 22, 2012 2:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
bgh
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, bgh - I didn't check the byline since it's sunday.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 22, 2012 3:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No big deal.
I’ve had the idea for an Eckstein post in this vein for a while now. Since Azru posted the St. Louis bar recommendation thread and news of the Eckstein retirement crossed my Twitter feed, I decided to write it today.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
As ever, thanks for the insights. . . Think "eckstein" means corner stone. Not a bad metaphor/name
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
odds it was done on purpose to emphasize his diminutive size and massive heart?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
i thought eckstein retired after last season.
i was actually surprised he hadn’t officially done that.
do you think he’ll be remembered for being an angel or a cardinal more?
Cardinal
Eckstein won the World Series MVP while playing for St. Louis, so I think he’ll be remembered more as a Cardinal.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
He won a WS with Anaheim as well, and played for them a season longer.
Plus, had his acting debut with them.
I think the real answer is that he won’t be remembered much at all, other than by Angels and Cards fans.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
That's fair.
You’re right that fans outside of Anaheim and St. Louis likely won’t remember him. I bet the Cardinals have him throw out a few more World Series ceremonial first pitches.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
OTOH, Cubs fans seemed to HATE him with white hot burning hate
so they’ll probably remember him as a Cardinal. In their fevered nightmares.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
lets hope he throws out a first pitch for the Crads in the WS next year!
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 22, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
...er this year
it is 2012 isnt it.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 22, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
He can throw one next year too!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
13 in '13!
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 22, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
Sad but true.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 22, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, was this snark?
Did I miss bgh being snarky?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I do believe that Scott Rolen should have won the 2006 World Series MVP
but I was being serious. Eckstein will be remembered as a Cardinal because he won that award for us and we’ll keep bringing him back for ceremonial first pitches because of that award.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Absolutely agree about Rolen.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, OK.
I suddenly though maybe you were just ripping on him about the MVP thing.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
How great would it be for a retired Rolen to come back to throw out ceremonial first pitches for World Series games instead of Eckstein?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I still vote for this.
We Still Love You Scotty!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
The best part is the rebound he had from a shitty NLCS.
NLCS he went jammed pop up, jammed pop up, jammed pop up benched, quiet rage.
World Series, adjustment, homerun, mash, double, mash.
A truly professional ballplayer.
by openside on Jan 22, 2012 3:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I googled that for you.
I was pretty sure it was Eckstein that was the MVP. MLB.com agrees it was Eckstein: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/ps/y2006/
re-read
rolen should have won it.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
rolen
should have knocked in the go ahead run then.
/jok
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
By the same token Berkman should have won it this year
And even if you want to go by moments because Freese’s moments in Game 6 won it for him (and tying it in game 7 helped) but Craig had the go ahead hit in every win except game 6, where he could have done it there in in the 9th and tenth and not being able to come through those two times in front of Freese in addition to the other four times was the only reason he wasn’t the unanimous choice for it. He also robbed a home run and caught the last out in game 7 without having an error in the series. That said, it’s not like Freese or Eckstein didn’t deserve thier MVP just because they each had a teammate that may have deserved it more
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 22, 2012 11:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know, I know, mobile phone
but run-on sentence.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 23, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 23, 2012 12:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
*go ahead hit in every home game and win except game 6
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 23, 2012 12:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Damn it, failed again
*first go ahead hit in every home game except game 6 and every win except game 6
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 23, 2012 12:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Tired of this theme
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 22, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
you guys
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
depends what fanbase you are from I guess
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think that is more clearcut
Edmonds should be remembered as a Cardinal regardless of fanbase… what did he do on the Angels besides a few astounding catches?
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Eckstein won a World Series while with the Angels.
And was a celebrated player while with the Angels (due largely to his grittiness). Edmonds was a good player who was run out of town in a way somewhat similar to Rasmus. Edmonds is a Cardinal because he put together a stupendous career peak exclusively as a Cardinal and won a World Series with the club. Edmonds should be a Hall-of-Famer due almost exclusively to his time in St. Louis.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 22, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not that I don't get your point
But isn’t it kind of weird how people forget that Edmond was actually really good in Anaheim? The guy was a 4-5 WAR player for four years in a row. He only played 114 games in 1996 and put up 5.1 fWAR. It’s like if B.J. Upton somehow got traded and then became a whole let better after what he’s already done for the Rays.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
It's because few wrote about Eckstein as being good, which he was.
They all saw what the picture in the main post shows—his outward appearance is that of an adolescent. There’s no way a guy who looks like that should be good. So he became the symbol of a player who is big-leaguer because of his heart. Never mind that he played at Florida and was drafted in the fourteenth round by the Red Sox. Never mind that he hits for a good average, was good at defense, and can get on base. So this narrative took hold and became the definition of Eckstein as a player. Then, in 2006, as he was entering the twilight of his career, the Cards went on a miracle World Series run. This meant that national columnists and broadcasters saturated the airwaves, internet, and printed page with this Eckstein the scrapper stuff and caused a huge backlash. It’s unfortunate that Eckstein as a player is defined more by a fight between bad sportswriters and bloggers than his on-field production.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 22, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was talking about Edmonds, though...
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
and what about Adam Kennedy?
or Scott Speizio?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
I almost said Eckstein will be lucky if he is remembered by the average fan AT ALL
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
well that was bs
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:23 PM EST reply actions
Brady sacked!
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
ok now I got my interception
what a catch!
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
what a throw by Flacco
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
does anyone know what happened with the expensive camera system the Giants were evaluating back in 2009 for recording defense?
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/New-Stats-Measure-Intangibles.html
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:31 PM EST reply actions
Sounds like ProZone in soccer
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I really hope it works out for baseball, there are other applications besides evaluating defense
would cost TONS of money to implement though
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Does it have other applications?
I don’t think so…
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
READ THE ARTICLE
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 23, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
they decided to just use wireless trangulation
by prophetjohn on Jan 22, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
ah
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
"intangibles"
LOL http://bmp18.net/index.cfm?Section=1&pagenum=334&titles=0
Baseball Intelligence: Does this player play the game the right way? Meaning is he always hustling. Not dropping his head after failing. Being a good teammate. The intelligent player understands situations, does the little things and makes the correct decisions. Players with high baseball intelligence can also be described as having a high Baseball IQ.
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 3:43 PM EST reply actions
BRAINS!!!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
high baseball intelligence = high Baseball IQ
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
and?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
I'm no professional scout
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
OT - went to Pappy's Smokehouse for 1st time today!
Family and I had the pork ribs which are absolutely awesome! We also loved the sweet potato fries and the green beans were quite niece. The pulled pork tasted smokey and very good but I only had a bite because I got full … saving it for later. Wife also got some briscut which had a nice smokey flavor, was moist, and had a great taste.
The baked beans tasted just like Bush’s though, and the coleslaw was just ok. It is small place but we hit it at just the right time, probably 1215ish, only maybe 10 people in line, took less than 10 minutes to order and we got a table immediately. Right after we set down, the line backed up to the long hallway and never let up.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
Your green beans were quite niece?
Sicko.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 22, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
I just recently learnt they are a required side dish with bonafide southern BBQ
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Missed the point, I think.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 22, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
I just blew right past your silly spelling correction
And I did just recently discover above they were required
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
I LOVE Pappy's. The ribs and beef brisket are incredible and the rubs are great
You don’t really enjoy the rubs on pulled pork so it is only ok and since the sauce sucks that kills it. That said the ribs and beef brisket are so good that I still consider it the best BBQ in STL and it’s between Pappy’s and Rondezvous in Memphis for the best I’ve ever had even with average pulled pork and below average sauce. If you want ribs it’s 100% the best place and worth going there even if you’re waiting in line because it’s crowded. If you want pulled pork then you’re better off just going to super smokers and if you just want good BBQ then you’d be damn hard pressed to beat just some good old fashioned, homemade, Mauls soaked pork steaks, homemade potato salad, and a bag of Red Hot Riplets without ever having to leave the house
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 23, 2012 12:11 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I have a paper to do
I really should not be on VEB right now…
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 22, 2012 4:00 PM EST reply actions
whatcha writing about?
or not writing about
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Have to analyze diction and its effectiveness in
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 22, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a giant waste of time...
ever consider a career in the fast paced world of accounting?
Sign Roy O
I'm torn on if I want to continue with that career path
it is both kinda fun and really f’n annoying
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
It is
especially because I have to turn in a hard copy that shows “inventive process” as well.
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 22, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
You probably should be talking to
a vocational guidance counselor if you plan on changing career paths to accounting. Or lion taming.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 22, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
it rhymes
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
and it has a bee on it
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
well the first line is missing a subject
and that poem was retarded. we’re doing 16th century poets in my English class now, if I read another poem about some guy talking about his beloved I’m going to kill someone.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...I'm with ya
Although I’m on the other end. Finishing up grades….
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Boldin!
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:03 PM EST reply actions
did he get any punishment over that thing he did last week pushing that guys helmet into the turf?
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
missed that
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
My all-time Cardinals lineup (since I started watching)
By fWAR:
Ozzie Smith, SS, 1989 – 6.9
Jim Edmonds, CF, 2004 – 8.2
Albert Pujols, 1B, 2008 – 9.1 (In 2003 he had 10.1 while splitting time between LF & 1B)
Scott Rolen, 3B, 2004 – 9.2
Matt Holliday, LF, 2010 – 6.7
Brian Jordan, RF, 1998 – 7.2 (most were to busy watching McGwire hit bombs to notice)
Yadier Molina, C, 2011 – 4.1
Jose Oquendo, 2B, 1989 – 5.9 (best double play duo I’ll probably ever see)
Chris Carpenter, SP, 2005 – 6.8
Jason Isringhausen, CL, 2002 – 2.5
Top 10 pitching seasons:
Carpenter, 2005 – 6.8
Adam Wainwright, 2010 – 6.1
Matt Morris, 2001 – 6.0
Adam Wainwright, 2009 – 5.7
Chris Carpenter, 2009 – 5.6
Chris Carpenter, 2006 – 5.2
Andy Benes, 1997 – 5.1
Chris Carpenter, 2011 – 5.0
Jose DeLeon, 1988 – 5.0
Jose DeLeon, 1989 – 4.9
Joe Magrane, 1989 – 4.9
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 4:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
can't wait for a Waino/Carp rotation this year!!
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
meant to say ace
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Too young to remember Musial, then?
No WAY does Holliday make this list (my version of it) ahead of him. He was diminished by the time I first saw him, but some season of his absolutely must be on there. 1962?
Otherwise, it’s remarkable how many of the all-time great Cardinals season performances have happened in the last 25 years, although I’d remove several pitching ones in favor of Gibson, and the unfathomable magic that was John Tudor in 1985.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 22, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Tudor's '85 season would've ranked just behind Carpenter's '05 season
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Statistically, yes. Aesthetically, it was in a class by itself.
I have never seen anything on a baseball field to remind me that baseball is beautiful that matched the way he pitched that year.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 22, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It is unfortunate how Eckstein's peculiar combination of skills and presence made almost everybody evaluate him unfairly
He was a perfectly fine player on his own merits. Aaron Miles is a much better “grit only” player. From 2001 to 2010 Eck put up 19 fWAR. From 2003 to 2011 Miles put up 1.2 fWAR.
On a related note, I submit that Willie Keeler is the greatest short player of all time.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
That was a pretty good commercial.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
oops I ignored it
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Anybody remember the proper formatting for a poem title?
Would it be: If or “If”
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 22, 2012 4:37 PM EST reply actions
I've always considered that up to personal taste
at least, it shouldn’t be a big deal. /nothelping
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
This is supposed to be proper MLA and my teacher is a stickler for this stuff.
Although this is just a 1st draft so I guess it doesn’t really matter. Will put in quotes
/problem solved
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 22, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
If you have time to do some Googling, I'd bet you could at least find some basic MLA guidelines on the interwebs
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Wow
Clay Davenport’s Projections for 2012
generated on 1-21-2012
NL Cent Won Lost Runs Runs A
CIN 88 74 718 658
MIL 87 75 691 641
STL 83 79 690 672
PIT 73 89 666 737
CHC 70 92 621 722
HOU 63 99 577 731
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 4:39 PM EST reply actions
Clay Davenport can go straight to hell.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Seems like Win totals across the league are very low
Only Boston and Texas are projected to break 95 wins
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 22, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...he's only got 2 other teams cracking 90
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
that's how it should be with projections
you have to account for injuries, rarely should a team should be projected significantly above 95 wins.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
wow nevermind, i just looked below
Davenport sucks.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
This would be.. interesting.
AL West Won Lost Runs Runs A TEX 102 60 821 620 LAA 86 76 719 672 OAK 80 82 679 688 SEA 68 94 613 725
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Seems strange to predict a team will win 102 games...
Is there anyone who wouldn’t take the under?
Sign Roy O
maybe he's projecting them to sign fielder
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
He's also pretty high on Darvish
but still, as a projection that’s crazy.
I guess he’s calculating expected runs scored and runs allowed based on his individual player projections, then using the pythag record(?).
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
that sounds about right, where he's really off base is projecting darvish's performance as high as he is the Darvish's first season in the ML when playing
half his games in Rangers Ballpark
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
huh
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
This makes no sense. I don't see how the Cardinals aren't favorites.
Defense and pitching should be better than last year, with comparable offense.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 22, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Davenport probably downgrades pitching
on the grounds that full recovery from TJ surgery is still not a 100% guaranteed thing. I will not say whose full recovery.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 22, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, I was fine with the pitching projections, looking at his numbers.
Seems really bearish on Cards’ lineup. Holliday has highest proj. SLG and BA at .463 and .283 respectively. Berk has the highest proj. OBA at .386.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 22, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Does anybody know/remember his projections for last year?
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 22, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like he started his new site in May, so I don't believe he did projections last season.
Unless they’re on Baseball Prospectus somewhere.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
these look like incredibly improbable outcomes.
Who really thinks the rangers will win 10 games more than the yankees and 18 games more than the tigers?
83 wins doesn’t seem a likely projection for the cardinals.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 22, 2012 5:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
maybe his model has a very aggressive aging curve?
Seems like some good teams with older players with surprisingly low win totals (yankees, phillies, cardinals). The red sox and texas are comparatively younger.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 22, 2012 6:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's what I was wondering just from the Cardinals' numbers.
I’m not too worried about these numbers. Too many other reliable systems that are comparatively bullish on the Cardinals’ players.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 22, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
lol
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Seems like he failed to take Braun's 50-game suspension into account.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Waiting until after the appeal?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 22, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
OT: Spring training tickets went on sale yesterday
and are already almost sold out. If anyone here is planning to go, recommend getting tix ASAP.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
I just watched a 2006 retrospective
And to his credit, when asked about Eckstein, La Russa emphasized what was written in this article in his own words, i.e: the “battle over his indefinable characteristics unfairly marginalized the reality that Eckstein was a pretty valuable ballplayer in the tangible sense”.
except that TLR's quote says pretty much the opposite of that.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 22, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
The quote is from the article above!
TLR said the same thing, that Eckstein doesn’t get credit for the tangibles. He said to forget about Eckstein being short, he can flat out play the game.
Yes, I know. I was saying that zoomzoom's comment was completely wrong.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 22, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
I think it was meant to be humorous.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 22, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
some big words removed
the "battle over his indefinable characteristicsunfairly marginalized the reality that Eckstein was a pretty valuable ballplayer in the tangible sense".
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
was joke
also removing that made it flow better with other words deleted
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure removing "that" is gramatically correct
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
o/
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
poor guy...
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
don't you have my back? wasn't it you who saved me before? also, PJ is leaving me hanging elsewhere in this thread
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
oh, was that a high five?
I think I assumed something was a high five one other time and it wasn’t so i’m just not sure anymore….
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
yeah it was, you do the opposite \o
but watch out you don’t hit yourself in the head like this /o … get the order right depending on if you are giving or receiving o/ \o
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
or you can just not pay attention to it
and, in effect, leave the person hanging there for hours…
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
yes, yes that is yet another option
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
STOP THE PRESSES
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Eckstein has NOT decided to retire, his agent, Ryan Gleichowski, said. “If the right opportunity arises, he will play,” the agent said.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
beat me to it
typing with one hand is slow
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
/withholds comment
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 22, 2012 5:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 7 recs
I was holding the baby
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jan 22, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Uh-huh
/Searches list of euphemisms from yesterday for this
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 22, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
If that's what you call it, then fine.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 22, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I've never heard that one before, and I've heard quite a few
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Feeding the ducks, salting the steak, roughing up the suspect....
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 22, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
yeah point was there are any number of those, holding the baby was a new direction
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
lil' scoot?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
woh
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
I hate all of the teams in the Playoffs right now
Maybe there won’t be a Super Bowl, just like the 2004 World Series
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
Harbaugasm
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Jan 22, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
would be awesome imo
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
hoping for Ravens-Giants
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
has Ravens got a player whose name LoMo?
perhaps smith
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
I somehow missed most of the LoMo meme
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
LoMoGoHR or something like that
Longoria hitting HRs to our benefit
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Logan Morrison ?
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 22, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
yeah that's the guy /dumbass
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
Omar Infante is our savior!
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Pats-Giants
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Niners are the only team I don't hate
so I hope they win it all
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 22, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn't mind seeing Eli Manning beating Tom Brady a second straight time in a Super Bowl?
That’d be hilarious.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 22, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
Light the Fritz signal!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Jan 22, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
I think you mean 1994....
That was when there was a strike. In 2004, the Cards got swept by the Red Sox in four games. Common mistake…
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 22, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
That's what they want you to believe.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
wow what an interception!!
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 5:48 PM EST reply actions
Go Ravens!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
...and of course
SHANKAGE
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
shankopatomus
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
holy shit.
are you kidding me?
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
what a horrible fn kick
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 6:10 PM EST reply actions
reminded of bills several years ago
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
hope that kicker doesn't kidnap Dan Morino
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
did Belichick install some kind of gravitational force field over the uprights?
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
They were rushing to get the play off
Yet they had a timeout
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Yup. I was thinking that as i saw the clock.
CALL TIMEOUT!!!!!!
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
or
run on 3rd and 1 and get the first down, call timeout, take 2 shots at the end zone and then kick the field goal if you don’t get the touchdown. Horrible last 30 seconds for the Ravens.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
total AFC Championship /fail
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yea I was thinking the same thing,
Only downside would be that they would be out of timeouts, and if Flacco gets sacked trying to take a shot at the end zone, the games over.
Did anyone else feel like Evans may have actually caught that ball or had possesion before it was knocked out? I was a little surprised it didnt at least warrant a review.
by mick311 on Jan 22, 2012 8:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not sure how Baltimore football fans recover from this...
at least as bad as the Rangers being a strike away twice. Even worse, they were big underdogs and had the Patriots by the throat.
Sign Roy O
I’m not a huge football fan but I doubt this is worse or even equal too
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Worse than The Tackle for Titans fans?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
not sure about that...
is it worse to lose in the championship game or the SB? I’d say the former.
Sign Roy O
Rangers way is way worse.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 22, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Think I'll go listen to showtunes.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 6:11 PM EST reply actions
Who's the blonde Belichick is making out with?
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
by Tackle Box on Jan 22, 2012 6:13 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
she needs to shave
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
by Tackle Box on Jan 22, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I need to start a fried chicken place that delivers.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 6:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'll be your first customer.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 22, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
why has this not been done already?
Family meal prices are in line with pizza prices … for years now, if not forever
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of pizza places that deliver do buffalo wings
that’s chicken, isn’t it?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 22, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
that's nit picking and not the family meal chicken buckets I'm talking about and you damn well know it
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
yes, yes you do
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Alright, which one of you guys sent Chinese over here?
Fess up
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Jan 22, 2012 6:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We are Anonymous
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jan 22, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Is he complaining?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
NFC should slaughter either team
sorry pats
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 6:24 PM EST reply actions
not here, they haven't started yet in CST, so you must be watching some other SF and NYG teams
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Have they started in EST?
It would be weird to be occurring in one time zone and not another
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Jan 22, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
if they have we should get wait until just before CST game time to lay down our bets!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds fair to me
Game starts at 8 EST? We should be able to wait until 8 PM our time to bet
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Jan 22, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
that the basic plan, as long as the mark doesn't figure it out
but to make it official we have to get our bets down by 7:55
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Giants got this
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
maybe not
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
9'ers
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
oh he was out
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
looked like he was on his toe there
and his heel never touched out
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Jan 22, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'm gonna go out on a limb here
and say whichever teams’ scores (TDs, PATs, FGs, Safeties) add up to a greater numerical value than the opponents’ will win.
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 22, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
that's a great point
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he's got something here
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Since FJM is the theme of this post
I bring you this
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/search?q=outscoring
It’s in the Gallimaufry, a few paragraphs down
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Jan 22, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
I would say so
I believe diction refers primarily to vocabulary but also includes “style of expression” which could include both grammar and punctuation as well as other elements.
A secondary use of the word diction is synonymous with enunciation.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 22, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Steven Tyler is there to show his support
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 6:24 PM EST reply actions
what was the unsportsmanlike like conduct the pose by the camera?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
yes
the podium is considered a prop and the No Fun League doesn’t like props int their celebrations.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Exception: Lambeau Leap is grandfathered in.
WAT
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
danke, argument won
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Cmon 9ers.
I really don’t want to be forced to watch New York Coughlins vs The New England Bradys.
by openside on Jan 22, 2012 7:13 PM EST via Android app reply actions
that fumble was TURRIBLE.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 22, 2012 7:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I am torn here
I would prefer the 49ers to beat the Pats in the Superbowl but I feel like the Giants have a way better chance than than SF would. My main interest is the Pats losing though… Who to root for…
niners...
They’re just as good as the giants, hype aside.
Also, under 37 attempts is looking bleak.
Sign Roy O
Eli would be able to torch the Pats secondary though
49ers are only as good if they win the turnover battle by 2 or 3 (which they consistently have done all year, but its hard to rely on that.) Long way to go on that under but yeah that could be tough.
Manning at 36 completions with a quarter+ to go...
is it wrong to root for a 7 on the ol’ richter scale? Nothing that will drop a building or anything….
Sign Roy O
haha that one went way over
my Nicks props didn’t hit, he wasn’t the same after the injury. Solid day for me though, my biggest bet was Ravens +7.
Eli chucked it 58 times...
and the teams scored 37 points. Fierce defenses. Also, Alex Smith is really bad on the short passes.
Sign Roy O
I'm with you wombat x!
(and is your user name any reference to Racer X? If it is, is your real name Rex Wombat?)
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
I like it, you could use something like this for an avatar ... non-police artists rendering
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
or another effort but you get the idea
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Go Giants!
I like Eli Manning now. Plus scoot is a Niners fans. Fuck that guy.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 22, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
why don't you go make stupid posts on facebook
and then delete them!
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I can't quite put my finger on why I don't like the Niners, but I just don't.
It’s not because of the rivalry with the Rams, that’s before my time. There’s something about Alex Smith in a Super Bowl that doesn’t sit well with me.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 22, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
They had like a +40 turnover differential this year
that was the primary factor in their success. I mean the run defense is great and you have to give the defense some credit for those turnovers, but there’s a substantial amount of luck in having that big of an advantage in turnovers.
Do you know of any research regarding turnovers?
Does creating them correlate strongly or weakly (or not at all) with the overall quality of the defense?
Sign Roy O
I just know they fluctuate like crazy year to year for teams
I don’t know about overall quality of defense.
Good luck though.
As strange as it sounds, I don’t think you guys have a chance in hell of stopping Eli Manning.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 22, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
We held him in check
Dropped 2 easy picks running into each other and the line did sb excellent job of getting pressure in the second half. Stupid kenny williams’ kid had to go and ruin everything
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jan 22, 2012 11:15 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Alex Smith was pretty awful as well.
He threw way too many passes directly into the ground or at the receiver’s feet.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 23, 2012 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
did you delete your facebook post when I pointed out your stupidity?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jan 22, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I commented that I was going to delete it, gave it a minute, and deleted it.
No need to look like a dumbass on Facebook. I’d rather be an anonymous dumbass on VEB.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 22, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
I approve of your sig, but where is the link to FreeTylerGreene twitter ?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
President Tyler was dead long before the Green movement which is not a fanclub at all
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry for the multiple posts on this
Internet connection was being weird because of the crazy weather down here.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jan 22, 2012 11:16 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Another factor leaning towards Giants
I want to be able to bet on Eli to win superbowl MVP. You get better odds betting the Superbowl MVP than betting the game, and if it is Giants versus Pats its like 80% that the MVP would be Brady or Manning. The only chance would be if Gronk had 3 tds or Nicks went for 200 yards or something.
this
"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Jim Harbaugh sure is an angry man
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 22, 2012 7:42 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
this is pretty funny
http://www.complex.com/sports/2011/08/the-most-accidentally-sexual-photos-in-sports-history#18
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
http://www.complex.com/sports/2011/08/the-most-accidentally-sexual-photos-in-sports-history#38
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
I've always wondered if that was a photoshop job.
I guess it’s not?
Is it an optical illusion?
Or is Jimmy just….um….being Jimmy?
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Paquette's junk was good luck.
Everyone did that.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
See, I always thought that was JD Drew
but the caption says Jason Marquis. Who is it?
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Marquis was #21. Looks like Marquis.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 22, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
That is Mothalovin' Craig Mothalovin' Paquette
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Initiate the sequences
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
they already have
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
reminded me of this ...
That old compromisin’, enterprisin’, anything but tranquilizing, Right on ______!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
dude...the guy getting his crotch grabbed is Marquis
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
I can't find an original source for the pic.
That still doesn’t look like Marquis to me. He has a shorter, squarer jaw.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
I was going back and forth for a while on this one
But I think it’s definitely Paquette. All the Cards pics of Marquis had him with the loose “pajama” style pants. Paquette always wore his above the angle as is shown above.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 22, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
that's definitely paquette's junk as seen here in this short film
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Now for the definitive proof that lies within the picture.............
The batting helmet is a righty helmet. Jason Marquis was a lefty batter.
I’m a freakin’ genius.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
my bad...i've seen this pic captioned as Jason Marquis numerous times,
but there are just as many instances saying it’s Paquette. It’s hilarious either way.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 22, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
Hilarious.
Hilarious and disturbing. But mostly Hilarious.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
That does not look like Marquis at all to me.
Thats the first thing I thought when I saw it.
by mick311 on Jan 22, 2012 10:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Idk, smith seems to be going deep pretty well
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Jan 22, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
ah. Well I'm trying to do the homeworks, but it's pretty difficult seeing as I left my text at my brother's.
I have the problems, but not the explanatory text and the internet’s not being especially helpful.
I want to take number theory next semester. It’s the most excited I’ve been for a non-physics class.
Still not a werewolf.
ah sorry, I probably won't be too much of a help then
number theory is a blast, I’m sure you’ll enjoy it :)
Yeah, I'm waiting on a friend to check his email and respond.
VEBers are much better interneters.
Still not a werewolf.
Man, cant help but feel for that 49ers punt returner.
by mick311 on Jan 22, 2012 10:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yup...
that is just brutal. His offseason is going to suck. His name will live in infamy. He doesn’t have a job anymore. Seems like an excellent buy-low candidate for the Rams.
Sign Roy O
He still has a job
Just not a return man. He was only out there because ginn was hurt. He’s got a decent future as a 3rd receiver/slot guy. He was forced into punt return duties and #2 receiver due to injuries to morgan and ginn
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jan 22, 2012 11:20 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
ah...
he looked damn good on returns aside from the fumbles. He can’t show his face in camp now, can he?
Sign Roy O
He's a second year player
Third round pick. They are pretty high on him for the future. I doubt they’ll just give up on him after one bad decision and one poorly secured ball, even if it was in the biggest game of his life.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jan 22, 2012 11:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I don't know if this was linked at the time.
(Very Large) infographic on the 2011 playoff teams.
That’s quite a bit of home-grown talent there, Birdos.
Cardinals #2 on the Suckometer.
Cards were in a virtual dead heat with the Brewers in attendance last year. Didn’t know that.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 10:41 PM EST reply actions
there was a day that y2s and I linked a lot of that stuff back and forth.
Now he’s gone and all I have left are memories and a lock of his hair.
Still not a werewolf.
well, my television-watching plans on the first Sunday in February just opened up
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 22, 2012 10:46 PM EST reply actions
he won't be in a few weeks
i really think the giants will win. they freaking better.
also- UNDER 55. that’s way high
no clue. that looked like a broken ankle on the replay, i have no idea how he ended up back in the game
he will play though i would assume with 2 weeks.
Fielder to the Nationals (via some dude on twitter)
@MLBInsideNews #Breaking: #Nationals to sign Prince Fielder to 8 year deal.
woah.
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
not surprised
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
nah me either i am just surprised it was now
mumble mumble Peter Bourjos mumble mumble
by tehzachatak on Jan 22, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
8 years seems a little surprising.
I guess we’ll hear about the other offers he had soonish.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
i hear that the mystery team had a strong offer in
by prophetjohn on Jan 22, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
Sick of those guys.
They make contract offers like drunken sailors GMs!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
They know no one ever signs with them, so why not drive up the bidding?
They almost lost their own game when Colon nearly signed with them.
Still not a werewolf.
Rizzo can always be counted on to bail out Boras...
that team is racking up dead money awfully quick.
Sign Roy O
That's not really a source I trust
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
yeah now that I look around...
Heyman could be counted on to have this and he’s got nothing.
Sign Roy O
jccorcoran says pujols will announce that he signing with the cardinals on monday
by prophetjohn on Jan 22, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
heh
I never saw a response from him after the signing
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 22, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Blow me, douchebag
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
???
not you, corcoran
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 22, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
No, that's how he responded to everybody on Twitter when they questioned him
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
ah yes
i remember now…i’ve drank a lot since then
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 22, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, who is this coming from?
8 years is crazy…who the hell else would have given him that?
by mick311 on Jan 22, 2012 11:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
MLBInsideNews: #Nationals/Fielder deal has opt-out after 3.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
MLBTR not running with it.
At least not yet.
by mick311 on Jan 22, 2012 11:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If its true then that division is gonna be pretty damn competetive,
I’m glad we dont play in the East.
by mick311 on Jan 22, 2012 11:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think it's anymore competitive than ours
Reds are better than the Nats, Phillies are maybe slightly better than us and the Brewers, and we’re both better than the Braves or Marlins.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Bowden is trying to get to the bottom of it.
JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
There is a report on twitter @mlbinsidenews that Fielder has signed 8 yr deal with Nats Left messages with Nats and Boras w/ no response????
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
same guy just tweeted this
Breaking: Sources tell me that Evan Longoria would welcome a trade. He is disgruntled by the #Rays situation, and unwillingness to spend
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Evan "I FUCKING LOVE THE TAMPA BAY RAYS" Longoria?
Maybe @MLBInsideNews stole his hat?
Still not a werewolf.
ugh...this is like the National Inquirer for baseball.
Fuck those people
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
The Marlins are now kicking themselves over a No Trade Clause.....
because without it, their whole offseason just became irrelevant.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
they had absolutely no intention of ever paying years 3/4 through 10
so the NTC was critical for them, don’t know how they thought they could unload it though
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 23, 2012 6:48 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I'm well aware of that and so was Pujols
They were gonna trade him before 10/5 rights took effect.
Nevertheless, they spent all that money on Mark Buehrle and Jose Reyes (who will most likely be challenged to find the field 100 times), got Zambrano for free (and he’ll actually probably pitch pretty well but there is a gamble with him), and pissed off their “franchise” guy by forcing a position move on a dude that’s not exactly the easiest guy to please in the world to begin with.
And now, Prince in Washington.
Florida Miami made such headlines but the headline that is going to have the biggest impact is the one that said Pujols had chosen Los Angeles. And they’re at best the 3rd best team in the division.
Miami basically half assed this offseason stopping short of what would have actually made them a legit contender and I’m sure the politicians in Dade County (or wherever that stadium is) are still falling for it hook, line, and sinker.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Florida had 79.5 third order wins last year
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/standings/
Adding Buehrle, Zambrano and Reyes definitely make them contenders for the division. And unlike the Phillies, they have a lot of young talent so they will be good in the future. I don’t think the Marlins are going to blow this up for a couple of years.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 23, 2012 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
HE'S NOT RETIRING
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
Has braun been suspended yet?
2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please
Meh. Go
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 11:31 PM EST reply actions
WTF
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Screw this.
Gonna go catch up on Last Chance Kitchen.
Yell if Fielder signs.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
Twitter?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Nyesha is kinda hot.
Also- I don’t usually drink quite this much wine. Especially when it’s not very good wine like this.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 22, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
That picture of me last night was pretty sweet, eh?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
indeed.
should’ve made a video, though. Which someone would have promptly made a .gif and posted many, many times throughout the coming season.
Still not a werewolf.
I think there's video of some portion of that night
But
uh
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Awesome
Who do you think is the top second-base prospect?
Kolten Wong33%
Oscar Tejeda13%
Cory Spangenberg11%
Jonathan Schoop8%
Cesar Hernandez8%
Delino DeShields6%
Reese Havens6%
Joe Panik5%
Scooter Gennett4%
Charlie Culberson1%
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 12:16 AM EST reply actions
Like half of the people who make it to the ML as 2B were SS at some point in the minors*
*Not a real stat
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
If he's an option to play the position, why exclude him?
he’s at a position where there’s no question whether he could actually play second base if given the opportunity,.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
because he's never played a game there, yet?
How can you rank him as a 2B prospect if he’s never played there?
Still not a werewolf.
because it's a stupid thing to include all SS's as 2B options.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
Why?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
because then your list of 2B prospects list would be 80% SS's
and your SS prospect rankings would be 100% SS’s. Why the hell would you do this?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
Depends on what the prospect list is trying to do
Ranking the Top 2B Prospects is a stupid exercise, because a lot (most?) of them are just failed SS prospects
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I understand what you are trying to say...but its fucking stupid to
rank SS prospects as 2B prospects if they aren’t playing 2B
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
I mean no one would rank Alex Rodriguez as
one of the best offensive SS’s in the game after he quit playing SS. And no one would have ranked him as one of the best offensive 3B before he even started playing there. It’s just a dumb thing to do.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
that's not really a fair argument, if Alex Rodriguez had the potential to play SS when he signed
with the Yankees, but because they made him switch to third does that mean that his potential to play SS at the same level he was accustomed to before the switch dissipated?
like 29 teams in baseball at that time still would’ve played Rodriguez at SS at that time if given the chance.
What is a prospect, but a player who has the potential to play a role at position with their set of skills. It might not make much sense to envision a world where Profar isn’t playing SS, but second base instead, but my point is if he has the potential to be the best second baseman out of every player in the minors with his skill set, shouldn’t he be considered?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
no he shouldn't.
not until he is told to go stand at 2B. You might as well rank him as one of the top CF prospects too while you’re at it.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
I'm no prospect expert
But I agree with this
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 23, 2012 12:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
fair enough, I just don't feel the list is as accurate as it could be if it decides
to exclude player due to their lack of experience at a position, but they obviously have the skills to outplay every player on the list if given the opportunity. .Which to be honest, that’s what I think prospect lists should be like when comparing players, based on potential and not on experience.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I'm not excluding him because of lack of experience.
I’m excluding him because he doesn’t play the position. The day he is told to go play 2B, I’ll immediately rank him as the best 2B prospect.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Would you include shortstops in the rankings of third base prospects, too?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
SS until he, you know, actually plays 2B
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
why? would you rather have profar or wong play second for us in the future if given the opportunity.
/in this scenario someone is blocking him at ss.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
because Profar might not be blocked by the time he gets to the majors.
The rangers could trade Andrus or he could even leave as a free agent by then
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
or the Rangers could trade Profar to a team where he isn't blocked.
Who knows which direction the Rangers prefer. They are all good options.
Andrus/Kinsler
Profar/Kinsler
Andrus/Profar
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 23, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
I vote
the bottom. Profar still won’t be ready to play a full season at the majors until 2014 at the earliest I’d say.
Kinsler will turn 32 that season. Not super old, but no spring chicken either.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jan 23, 2012 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
I would love Wong to only be a year away
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 23, 2012 12:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Testing a new avatar
Moving from anger to schadenfreude in the stages of grief.
Boog would have made that play.
cute
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 23, 2012 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
I'm reccing both of these
I still love me some Eck.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Star Wars geek
Can’t go wrong.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
damn, she's really cute
looks like christina applegate.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 23, 2012 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
She does look like Christina Applegate
They could play sisters in a movie or something.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Wow, she's got to be what, 4' 10"?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 23, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
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