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looking forward in the division

i have to say, things look pretty good within the division for 2012. the cards are not walk-away winners of their division this season, but they probably have some on-paper edge on the brewers and are several steps ahead of the reds.

today, i'd like to think more about what the division looks like through 2015, however. although prognostication is very difficult, i'd say there's a lot to like about the cardinals' position right now.

prospects and farm systems

the cardinals clearly had a very strong farm system, but it was great that someone did a very strong Victor Wang on John Sickels' assessments of prospects around the league. the cardinals ended up at #4 overall by total prospect value, which is even more bullish than i would have been on the system.

the cardinals have a good mix of high-end prospects, with one A-ranking and ELEVEN prospects ranked B or better by Sickels, as well as substantial depth in the form of B+/C+ guys.

if you're not familiar with Sickels' work, i'd suggest an extensive review of his site, minorleagueball.com. i think he does as good a job as anyone in assessing prospects, and certainly is far more generous in putting the information into the public domain. buy his book while you're there, if you're so inclined.

at least as interesting to me as the cardinals' rise among systems has been the fall of other teams within the division. both milwaukee and cincinnati have exhausted the depth in their systems by graduation and by trade, to compete in 2011 and 2012. the turnover of quality is reflected in their new ranks at #23 and #28 among MLB farm systems. the brewers carry no prospects ranked B+ or better. the reds carry a single A- and a single B+ player in their farm.

the astros are not likely to compete next year, and are out of the league in 2013. so, we really need not concern ourselves with the magic that jeff luhnow may do over the next several years in houston. their farm is terrible this year, too, ranking at 26. however, i suspect luhnow is very capable of fixing that circumstance.

speaking of excellent GM's, theo epstein has made his success in boston look like less of a mirage by making some canny trades and successfully charting the disastrous cubs onto a course of rebuilding. however, the farm is still lacking in high-end prospects, with only two B+ prospects (one of whom was acquired by epstein) taking up the high end of the farm. still, the cubs enjoy a wealth of low-end depth prospects.

the pirates have a several highly-rated prospects - in the form of two excellent pitchers, gerritt cole and jameson tailion, and one fine outfielder josh bell, but relatively poor depth following them. contrast them with the cardinals; where the cardinals have eleven B prospects or better, the pirates have five. still, the pirates are the closest farm competition to the cardinals, ranking at #11 overall.

Star-divide

beyond the farm

it's foolish to look exclusively at the status of farms to assess general health. obviously, a club's long-term likelihood of success is far more than merely their up-and-coming prospects. also, the strength of the farm itself can change quickly. a few good drafts from 2009 on put the cardinals where they are now. the budget of a team will also determine how well they fare in the future, as will the enduring strength of the current cast of characters (at least those likely to stick around in the next few years), and the general quality of management, in terms of its ability to maximize the utility of the resources at hand.

the reds look like they're about to return to free-fall in the division. their farm is gutted. their budget hovers around $80m. among their top position players, brandon phillips will be gone after 2012 and joey votto after 2013, unless the reds find a way to pay both of them in the confines of a very small budget. matt latos, johnny cueto, and jay bruce will be the building blocks of whatever the club puts together beyond 2013, along with catching prospect devin mesorasco. to me, the existing talent on the club combined with a limited budget spells some pretty poor outcomes in the medium-term.

to watch: joey votto's cost spikes in 2013, from $9.5m to $17m. depending on outcomes in 2012, the most sensible thing to do may be to trade him either mid-season 2012 or (if the reds are still contending at the deadline) in the upcoming offseason to restock the farm. if votto isn't moved, the reds will have $55m committed to six players in 2013 (including madson, chapman, and arroyo).

the brewers will lose both marcum and greinke to free agency in the absence of an extension deal. their budget has remained somewhere between $80m and $90m. going forward, they have a skeleton of talent that could be the core of a reasonably talented team: rickie weeks, ryan braun, yovani gallardo, and aramis ramirez. corey hart is still under contract through 2013. however, that core will cost milwaukee about $45m to their 5 core members in 2013, and $47.5m to 4 players in 2014. rounding out a rotation and a good number of the position players on the field will be a huge challenge within a limited budget, with little more than role players coming from the farm. by contrast, the cardinals will have $68m committed in 2013 to 8 players, but only $25m committed to 2 players in 2014.

a rough assessment - the brewers have enough home-grown talent to stay in the hunt and maybe pull off a surprise, but not enough money to be a perennial division leader.

the pirates, despite their generally pretty good farm, still don't look like contenders going forward. their carried-over talent is basically andrew mccutchen, although they did lock down jose tabata through 2016, and neil walker shows some promise. there are still way too many gaps on the team. even if their high-profile prospects succeed, they won't be enough to put a $40-50m team into contention. despite their brief flirtation with first place this year, it is hard to see the pirates becoming a credible contender in the NL central at any time in the near future, with their current budget.

as i said above, the astros are terrible and likely to be out of the division before they are good. still, one might note that the astros have slowly unburdened themselves of a host of terrible contracts. for 2013, they have about $16m of total salary encumbrances (omitting lots of arbitration, of course), mostly to wandy rodriguez. things have suddenly begun to move in the right direction for a team that could be well-funded and very dangerous in the AL West in several years.

i think, on balance, our most likely competition in 2013, 2014, and 2015 will be the cubs. they have the payroll to remain competitive under a competent executive. theo epstein is starting to look like just that guy. their farm is the least terrible of the rest of the division, barring the pirates. when you have a perennial $130, $140m payroll, with continuing obligations of $33m and $20m in 2013 and 2014, you can do a hell of a lot. even for next year, they still only have $90m committed (with three outstanding arb awards, garza's being the biggest).

in looking at their payroll, it's pretty clear they have a prince fielder-sized hole in it. epstein has done a great job of waiting out the market on him, which should keep his ultimate cost down. i would think a signing of yoenis cespedes would fit very nicely with a talent-poor, cash-rich club.

however, even with more than $100m at epstein's disposal, that $100m will have to go pretty far. the club has holes in every area, with only catcher and an okay middle infield as stable areas long-term. the system is pitching-weak, with garza committed only through 2013. volstad and randy wells will round out the back of future cubs rotations for several years, but the big money will have to put great pitchers at the front of the rotation to make the cubs competitive. when that same money has to flesh out the corner infield spots, the outfield, and the bullpen, $100m doesn't look quite so huge. it's still huge, but less so.

looking forward, even if the brewers have an 8-10 win advantage over the cubs in their carried-over talent in 2013, 2014, 2015, epstein could make up that difference with a $60m advantage in terms of uncommitted money. the reds will have an even more modest advantage advantage over the cubs in terms of current talent that will carry over into future seasons, and a pretty cramped budget as well.

now, do any of these clubs rank with the cardinals in terms of their likelihood to succeed in future years? to go back to the rankings, the cardinals have a net $67m advantage in value over the cubs' system, $84m advantage over the reds, and $94m over the brewers. on top of that, the cardinals have a budget that signficantly surpasses the brewers and reds, but trails the cubs by a healthy margin. their salary encumbrances drop substantially beyond 2013. the system as a whole leaves only a handful of substantial gaps going forward long-term: shortstop, catcher, and centerfield, which should be far easier to manage than the multitude of holes in the cubs organization, even with the greater monetary advantages in chicago.

with all the caveats that go with prognostication, the posture of the club within the division in 2013, 2014, and 2015 is probably even better than it is in 2012.

Comment 471 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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If Pedro Alvarez starts hitting

that pirates club, could be dangerous sooner than we think.

flayed ones stealth mode

"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."

by mob16151 on Jan 21, 2012 6:29 AM EST reply actions  

Add him in with

McCutchen,Walker,Tabata, and thats 4 pretty good hitters right there

flayed ones stealth mode

"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."

by mob16151 on Jan 21, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

that may be true, but even if those guys all start

Hitting (and just assuming everybody will live up to their ceiling is generally a bad assumption), they still have to fill out a rotation and field a reasonably club behind them on $50m. Unless those 4 guys are all 6-7 win superstars, it’s not happening.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 2:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

when my blackberry started doing it automatically.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 3:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

When you remove capitalization altogether

you eliminate many opportunities for grammatical errors. Now you’ll just make more mistakes. Your Blackberry isn’t a smart enough phone.

by hangingfromatree on Jan 21, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll never go back to a blackberry

after having an iphone

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 21, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

It's starting to look like

you won’t even have that option anyway in the very near future.

by birdlandkustl on Jan 22, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

they could compete if the cards make any dumb signings

but then again, we are still competing despite the Westbrook contract. they probably won’t be quite ready yet next year

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Meh. Colour me relatively unimpressed with the Pirates

75 wins this year maybe, but I can’t see much else coming in the near future. I like Taillon and Cole and think they could be a solid 1-2 in a couple of years, but they need a couple of great drafts, a bigger budget and some sensible trades in the next couple of years if they’re going to be competitive in this division IMO.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

it’s some wonder that paying a 5th starter a 5th starter’s salary hasn’t dragged this team into the cellar

by prophetjohn on Jan 21, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

wow

are you ok man? lol

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

In a well run world

your 5th starter would be a pre-arb. I feel like the only reason to spend real money on starter #5 is a serious lack of starter depth. Also the most awesomest rotation ever, but that will not include a Jake Westbrook.

by Jon S. on Jan 21, 2012 5:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

i'm not arguing that it's awesome

but he seemed to be marveling at the fact that the $110MM payroll cardinals are competing despite paying their 1-1.5 WAR 5th starter $8MM

it just seemed a little exaggerated

by prophetjohn on Jan 21, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

very interesting post

I completely didn’t realise that Greinke would be a FA next year. Now thats going to be interesting.

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 6:45 AM EST reply actions  

Greinke would be a natural fit for the Cards

except when we’re being all fake and stuff

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Jan 21, 2012 6:58 AM EST up reply actions  

how do you think he and carp would get along

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 7:20 AM EST up reply actions  

perfectly fine

i doubt they’d be bestest buddies but i don’t see there being a clash of personalities.

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 7:21 AM EST up reply actions  

i just think they'd compare their CYs

and polishing techniques

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 7:26 AM EST up reply actions  

well I agree he would think him an addition to the team

but, carp doesn’t stop being carp, just depending on how you play, in my imagination. he’s definitely appears to be they type of guy who is who he is without wavering

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 7:30 AM EST up reply actions  

You are either really, really tired

or watching porn on another open window.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 21, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

wat?

oh are you talking to aranathor?

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

no, you.

Can’d decode half of what you said there.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 21, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

^Can't

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 21, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I don't know what to say

I wasn’t tired or watching porn. Are you normally able to decipher what I say or is this just typical?

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I don't like strawberries.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 21, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

/is

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

TB's just messing with you.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

seems to be a theme here this afternoon

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

you're in the club, it happens

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

upon a re-read

I can see what pepper is talking about now. Made sense to me as I was typing it though

well I agree he would think him an addition to the team

but, carp doesn’t stop being carp, just depending on how you play, in my imagination. he’s definitely appears to be they type of guy who is who he is without wavering

some periods and rephrasing would have helped. ha. I was in my old timey tone too.

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, yes I am.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 21, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Cool I'm ok now

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I got what you were saying

but I had to read it a couple of times. I don’t think that the comment came out as clear as it did in your head.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I say

let who is not guilty, cast the first stone.

Can’d decode half of what you said there.blockquote>

by ridgesee on Jan 21, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

internetese? How does it work?

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

it is what it is

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

btw you are up rather early or are you still awake?

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 7:23 AM EST up reply actions  

its like midday here

i just went to sleep later than usual

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 7:25 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah, I know is noon:30

But thought your comments from last night went way into the wee hours

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 7:31 AM EST up reply actions  

you were commenting until at least 0400 hrs your time right

guess that’s plenty of rest though

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 7:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Well thats later than i thought...

oh well! I don’t sleep too well when i’m drunk anyway.

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 7:36 AM EST up reply actions  

btw noticed the sig addition

if you’re going to use it yourself it would be handier for you if you made it open in a new window wouldn’t it?

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 7:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I only put it in there so people know where the quote is from

i must’ve forgotten to make it open in a new tab since i always middle-click links anyway. Will sort that out…

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 7:44 AM EST up reply actions  

well i will do

when SBN decides to play fair

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 7:44 AM EST up reply actions  

lol

yesterday, i had a lengthy comment prepared to preview/post, and just as i was about to hit preview … poof it was gone…in future if i know a comment is going to be long, i think i will prepare it in word or something and paste over when finished editing

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 7:50 AM EST up reply actions  

If I fall asleep drunk

I wake up at 5AM chompin at the bit. To do what? Not sure. Hurry up and be miserable I guess. I rarely drink now because of it, so I reckon it’s a good thing.

by openside on Jan 21, 2012 8:49 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

I think it's important that we revisit the Greinke quote.

Here is the initial question during the press conference:

Q. After being around it for 18 matchups this season, do these two teams legitimately dislike each other?

ZACK GREINKE: Maybe now. I think no one really likes Carpenter. But besides that, I think they respect mostly everyone on their team.

Here is the follow-up question and answer:

Q. So what do the guys have against Carpenter?

ZACK GREINKE: I don’t know. They think his presence, his attitude out there sometimes is like a phony attitude. But — and then he yells at people. He just stares people down and stuff. And most pitchers just don’t do that. And when guys do, I guess some hitters get mad. Some hitters do it to pitchers. But when you do that some people will get mad.
There’s other pitchers in the League that do it, but, I don’t know, a lot of guys on our team don’t like Carpenter.

To this day, I don’t understand why Cardinals fans have a problem with Greinke for explaining why his teammates don’t like Chris Carpenter. I also don’t understand how it led to headline like “Greinke calls out Carpenter” and “NLCS rivalry: Greinke calls Carpenter ‘a phony.’” I think the frame of the coverage was misleading and poor journalism. Greinke never said he thought Carpenter was phony; he said his teammates did and that his teammates didn’t like Carpenter because of it.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that is certainly the perspective of the quote.

It’s all about “they,” “some hitters,” and “a lot of guys on our team.”

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

they were just looking for wallboard material

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's mainly a pitcher/hitter thing.

I’m sure the hitters who don’t like Carp are the ones made the subject his stare-downs and other antics. A pitcher, like Greinke, is probably not going to be subject to lot of staredowns and yelling by Carp.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 21, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

kinda detached

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

if phony attitudes make people defeat Roy Halladay in a postseason pitcher's duel

then let’s be fake as hell

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

there was nothing fake about that shit

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

There's a big difference between demeanor and pitching ability.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

SO, carp pisses them off and gets in their heads...

and this is a bad thing? In all honesty, Greinke and the rest of the Brewers can get as pissed off as they like. IMO, emotional teams often lose their cool and make mistakes.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

...Chris Carpenter isn't like most pitchers...he's better
But — and then he yells at people. He just stares people down and stuff. And most pitchers just don’t do that

oh yeah, and CCDGAFAZGF

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 21, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: The Reds' system

I’m assuming their A- is Mesoraco, who’ll be their main catcher this year I expect.

Also, not sure about the scoring system used in that link – no way is the Padres’ system the best in baseball. Yes, they have lots of depth, but not many potential stars really. I wouldn’t swap our system for theirs. I think I like the Jays, Rangers, Mariners, Royals and maybe RedSox systems better as well (from a pretty amateur standpoint, simply because they all have more potential stars and similar depth IMO).

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 6:52 AM EST reply actions  

I've seen others

who also rank the Pads very high.

"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 21, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Who's their best prospect now?

Alonso? Grandal? I wouldn’t swap either of those for Miller or C-Mart. Or maybe even Taveras.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the Pads have the best system.

Liriano is a comparable prospect to Taveras, Spangenberg to Wong, Sampson to Jenkins, etc. etc.. Sure, they don’t have a “Shelby Miller” but who does except Tampa (Moore) or Atlanta (Teheran) or arguably a few others. The Pads have excellent depth and a lot of that depth is in the B+ range.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 21, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Taveras is a year younger than Liriano, and hit quite a bit better at the same level

Liriano kinda sucked in 2010 as well. I’m not sure I think he’s as good as Taveras. Spangenberg’s a good Wong comp, true enough.

I like Hedges, Kelly and Spangenberg, that said, so there’s a lot of depth there. Sampson wasn’t a guy I knew but I like his numbers a lot. That said, I think we’ve got similar (perhaps slightly less) B-level prospect depth and, crucially, 2 or 3 guys with superstar upside. I don’t know if the Pads quite have that.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

the padres have great ranking because they have amazing

Depth. Sickels ranks them with 16 guys at B- or better. They don’t have the extraordinary high end talent (A/A-) in other systems. Sort of an odd system.

http://mobile.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/10/2626701/san-diego-padres-top-20-prospects-for-2012

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 5:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

thanks for the early morning post Tom

It’s pretty awesome to be in the top 2 teams in the NL Central year after year, for the past 16 year’s we’ve had a great run and it’s great to know we’re looking good going forward. also great that its always us and someone else. Feels like we’re the Yankees of the NLC in a way. Although year after year the sports writing mainstream usually under projects the Cards, but in a way that good news. When they project us to be the power we suck.

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 6:54 AM EST reply actions  

touche, I like your way of thinkin peppa

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 7:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I think he was referring to perennial contender versus payroll

and the Cards are second only to the the yanks in terms of

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 7:42 AM EST up reply actions  

They have more money than we do and have smart leadership right now

It’s very possible

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

and great fans

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

"Great" is not a word I would use to describe them.

Obnoxious is better and also like the Yankees.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions

by ClemsonGirl on Jan 21, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

for this reason

(even before the Theo/Hoyer hirings) i’ve always associated the Cubs with the Red Sox. Maybe it’s because I hate both of these teams.

"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit

by BVHeck on Jan 21, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus, all the losing (until recently).

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 21, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

(turn on sarcasm detector)

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I am ill.

The sarcasm detector is the first to go.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions

by ClemsonGirl on Jan 21, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

hope you feel better soon

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

We have a better team, a better farm, and 6 top 100 picks next year.

It’ll take the Cubs 4-5 years minimum to be a better org than us. Let’s win a few more titles in that time!

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

They're still pretty saddled with bad contracts

And don’t have a good farm system. It’ll take awhile to get where we are now. It’s only about a 30 million difference in payroll.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 6:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, most of the last 16 years anyway

excluding 4th place finishes in ’97, ’99 and ’08 (with losing records in ’97 and ’99) and 3rd places finishes in ’98 and ’07 (with a losing record in ’07).

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 21, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed...

the Cubs are the big threat. The Reds had the opportunity to build a perennial contender but Jocketty has decided to go with short term focus to match his own short term status.

Madson won’t be with the Reds in 2013 – that $55 million is for just five players, two of which – Chapman and Arroyo – might be near worthless.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 7:09 AM EST reply actions  

if epstein is jmo's equal, and has more money

cubs should be the top dog

just thankful they were so mismanaged for so long

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Jan 21, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

"The Reds had the opportunity to build a perennial contender but..."

they hired Walt Jocketty.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

We've been over this ad nauseum...

yeah he did well overall, but hi m.o. stopped working to any great effect about eight years ago. What he’s doing now with the Reds could work out well, but it is undeniably a short-term, mortgage-the-future approach that is going to lead to many third and fourth place finishes after the Votto window closes in 2014.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Look at the Reds in 2013

Meso
Votto
2nd base (Frazier)
Cozart
Juan Francisco
Heisey
Stubbs
Bruce

SP: Latos-Cueto-Bailey-Leake-Arroyo-Chapman(?)
Bullpen: Masset, Ondrusek, Bray, and three league minimum guys
Bench: Hanigan and four league minimum guys

This team costs around $84 million and is really pretty bad.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree.

No way Cincy can afford to re-sign him.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...

I wonder what they could’ve gotten from Jays or Rangers if they had traded him and kept Alonso… Maybe they could’ve landed Profar and Perez, plus $10 million in salary relief to compete for someone like Beltran. Votto to Alonso is -4 wins, but Heisey to Beltran might be +3. Then you’ve got two top shelf prospects and tons of salary room for years to come.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, Jocketty did well in St. Louis but then dug us into that we were fortunate Mozeliak was able to get us out of.

Jocketty’s general managing is not very effective in the 21st century. It was laughable when he won executive of the year for winning with players acquired or drafted and developed by the preceding GM and his people. I count my lucky stars that DeWitt brought in Luhnow, fired Jocketty when Jocketty couldn’t work with Luhnow, and promoted Mozeliak. Without Mozeliak and Luhnow, we likely wouldn’t have won the World Series in 2011 with a team full of homegrown players.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

wait

"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit

by BVHeck on Jan 21, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Seriously!

Felonius_Monk; please name all the star homegrown players Jocketty traded away and then review the list of players he acquired by vivaelbirdos. Placido Polanco?! He wasn’t bad, but Scott Rolen was better. Dan Haren, that’s the one I hate the most, but that was a deal LaRussa pressured him to make. Mulder was a star who blew out his shoulder. Who’d we trade for McGwire, Jim Edmonds, Will Clark, Woody Williams and Adam Wainwright just to name a few.

Now let’s take a look at the exceptional Loogy’s Mozeliak has brought in in the last few years: Trever Miller, Brian Tallet, Raul Valdes, Dennys Reyes, Ben Jukich, Rich Rundles, Renyo Pinto, Evan MacLane, Royce Ring, Ian Ostlund, Manning and Maekawa. Are you wowed yet? Don’t make me go back further then 2009. None were ever as good as Steve Kline.

I won’t even get into what Mo acquired for Gregerson and Chris Perez. I know they’re not loogy’s, I just couldn’t resist.

by Wileyvet on Jan 23, 2012 1:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Freese was a Jocketty move, no?

Craig was drafted by Jocketty. Berkman would have been a quintessential Jocketty pickup. Holliday, Yadier, Wainwright – I don’t want to name them all, but the bulk of our team this year very well could have been put together by Jocketty. Mo’s traded away our two best positional prospects during his tenure for rentals – at least Jocketty got long term players out of his trades. I agree that our farm system is much better under Mozeliak and we look much better for the future.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 6:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Nope

It was Mo’s first trade.

Cards fan in Middle East

by Shloz on Jan 22, 2012 7:41 AM EST up reply actions  

do you have a clue what you're talking about?

Mozeliak gets credit for the big trade that turned the season around. Do you know why he had to make that trade? Because of the hellish bullpen he saddled the team with to start the season: Augenstein, Miller, Tallet, Batista and Valdes. Motte, Boggs and Franklin were from Jocketty (although Mo is widely given credit for recommending that Walt sign Franklin). How many of that elite squad are left? That’s right, the two WJ boys!
He had to trade for Furcal, who lets face it, really didn’t do much because he traded away a gold glove caliber shortstop and signed a brick (Theriot) to play shortstop. Another mistake he had to correct mid-season. LaRussa and the Atlanta Caves are the sole reason this team got to the WS. Mozeliak is a bumbling baffoon who finally got lucky. I’ll give him credit for David Freese even though he was considered just a body because Edmonds wanted out of town if he couldn’t start. Freese was overage in A-ball and third in the pecking order in SD. Here’s a name: Chris Carpenter, think he had anything to do with the WS title??? Lohse and Westbrook, two of Mo’s finest acquisitions did what? Exactly what Mozeliak homegrown players are you talking about? Lance Lynn!? What about Jocketty homegrown players; guys like Molina, Pujols, Garcia, Craig, Motte, Schumaker, Descalso, McClellan, Boggs, Salas, Sanchez, Chambers and Jay. What’s laughable is you using a quote from Waino who was traded for by Walt. Who did we trade to get Jackson, Rzep and Dotel? Why none other then Walt draft pick Rasmus. Furcal? Walt’s player Castellanos. How about Holliday, who wasn’t a factor at all in the 2011 title? Mo traded three of Luhnow’s drafts. Walt Jocketty put together the teams that won titles in 2006 and 2011, whether you use revisionist history or not.

by Wileyvet on Jan 23, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Jocketty traded for:

Ken Hill
Todd Stottlemyre
Dennis Eckersley
Mark McGwire
Darren Oliver and Fernando Tatis
Edgar Renteria
Pat Hentgen
Darryl Kile and Dave Veres
Fernando Vina
Jim Edmonds
Mike Timlin
Will Clark
Steve Kline
Woody Williams
Chuck Finley
Scott Rolen
Adam Wainwright
Tony Womack
Larry Walker
Mark Mulder
Joel Pineiro

Those were all different deals and all players played well for us for at least a season or two.

Jocketty was GM when the following players (min. 5 WAR) were drafted:
Matt Morris
Junior Spivey
Braden Looper
Adam Kennedy
Rick Ankiel
Jason Michaels
JD Drew
Jack Wilson
Albert Pujols
Coco Crisp
Yadier Molina
D__ H____
Brendan Ryan
Ian Kennedy (didn’t get signed)
Max Scherzer (didn’t get signed)
Daric Barton
Colby Rasmus

He was also around when current Cardinals were drafted:
Descalso
Cruz
Chambers
Craig
Jay
Garcia
Greene
Anderson
Boggs
Motte
McClellan
Schumaker

Plus
Luke Gregerson
Chris Perez
Anthony Reyes
Chris Duncan
Xavier Nady
Randy Flores

by stlfan on Jan 22, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

right

and who’s regime were these people brought in under?

by Wileyvet on Jan 22, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not giving Jocketty credit for Pujols

that was a complete fluke.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 23, 2012 2:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Arroyo is close to worthless now IMO.

He will get destroyed in that bandbox next year. 85mph fastball and a spiralling flyball rate do not bode well.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

How is it that pitching prospects in the 11-50 range are more valuable than those in the top 10?

I imagine flameout being a factor, but don’t see how that doesn’t affect pitchers across the board.

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Jan 21, 2012 7:39 AM EST reply actions  

That's just measurement error

What his research says is that it really doesn’t matter if you have a top 5 pitching prospect or a top 50 one – on average, they will produce the same amount of WAR over the lifetime of their pre-free agent years.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 21, 2012 8:11 AM EST up reply actions  

It could easily be one or two major outliers skewing it though

It only takes a couple of Halladays or Lincecums or whatever to be rated outside the top 10 and that’s piling on a lot of WAR.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess, but I'm not sure why we should remove the outliers

The whole idea behind the research is that predicting pitching prospects is very inexact. We should probably smooth them out a little bit though.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 6:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Jocketty = Big Bad Wolf

Faberge eggs all have been safe in henhouse. Coincidence? I think not.

by JWO on Jan 21, 2012 7:43 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Not sold on the Reds this year?

I agree that their window is tiny, but they are STACKED this year. Its definitely going to be close. Also, I agree with your assessment of the system’s holes, but I think it should be noted that catcher and SS are two of the hardest positions to fill (well) through free agency. Miguel Montero will be a free agent soon though…

"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."

by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Jan 21, 2012 9:26 AM EST reply actions  

They've got a rotation...

of Latos-Cueto-Bailey-Leake-Arroyo.

That’s not very good.

Plus I don’t see how they’ve gotten much better on offense. Cozart>Janish, but Meso probably will be a downgrade (in 2012 at least), Rolen and Phillips are another year past their prime, and everyone else is the same. Stubbs and Heisey could be better, and Bruce could finally be the guy they just know he’s going to be…

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, the Reds are way below us

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 21, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

They're shitty

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Jan 21, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah I guess

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 6:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I disagree about the rotation.

People underestimate Latos because he was pitching in a pitcher’s paradise. He’ll still be decent in Cincy. And, well, would you rather have Arroyo as your #5 or Westbrook?

"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 21, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Westbrook easily

I bet LeCure gets as many starts as Arroyo in 2012.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, for sure, Arroyo pitches uglier.

Unfortunately, he also pitches better. Check B-R on the two of them. Same age, Arroyo definitely with the better career, comparably stinky last year.

Westbrook COULD be the better pitcher of the two. I’m just not convinced he will.

"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 21, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Both don't strike anyone out and Arroyo has better control...

but he’s also a fly ball pitcher in a home run park. He was a complete disaster last year to a much greater degree than Westbrook.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Their ERA+ were almost identical

and Arroyo gave up a lower WHIP. In a park-neutral setting, I’m honestly not sure which one I’d rather have in 2012, but it definitely is not a no-brainer in favor of Westy. Hopefully by the end of the season, Shelby Miller will make the whole thing moot.

Arroyo’s leg kick awakens a certain nostalgia in me. I had a very similar (if left-handed) motion pitching as a kid. Only in retrospect, on my parents’ home movies, did I realize how ugly it was.

"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 21, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Context neutral I'd take Westbrook...

but you also have to keep in mind Arroyo is especially ill-suited to his park as a no-strikeout, flyball pitcher. Plus he’s un-tradeable and the Reds have liquidated all their rotation depth.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Westbrook MIGHT be legitimately our fifth best starter (tho Lynn is probably better)

I think we could have 8 or 9 starters who are better than Arroyo right now. I think you’re badly over-rating Arroyo. He really sucks now.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Arroyo was wayyyy worse than Westy last year

Westy was a kinda average back of the rotation guy. Arroyo was one of the worst pitchers in baseball. Arroyo will be out of the rotation by August.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I just looked at Bronson Arroyo's numbers for 2011 and holy cow was he horrendous!

He was worth 1.3 fWAR, had a 5.07 ERA and 5.71 FIP. Arroyo’s ERA was 130 and his FIP- was 146 (!). To even compare him to Westbrook is incredibly off-base. Sure, Westbrook had a 4.66 ERA, which isn’t good but is a half-point better than Arroyo’s. While Arroyo was lucky, Westbrook was unlucky. His 4.27 FIP is almost a point and a half lower than Arroyo’s.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

they project the same going forward

I agree with pj’s reasoning.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 6:27 AM EST up reply actions  

nevermind, westbrooks a lot better

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 6:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Cueto in 2011:

6.00 K/9, 2.71 BB/9, 2.31 ERA, 3.45 FIP, 3.90 xFIP

Cueto had a good season, but I highly doubt he’ll post a sub-3.00 ERA in 2012. His negative ERA-FIP gap is the third largest in MLB for 2011 (for pitchers who threw 150+ innings).

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I have my doubts...

see rui’s profile of the average AAAA player below.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Even if they haven't gotten much better, their offense was elite last year

More than 33 fWAR, second only to us in the NL. And I don’t think Mesoraco will be a downgrade over an entire season, but thats obviously opinion. Also, they have a potentially dominant bullpen, with Madson, Chapman, Marshall, Arredondo, and some combination of Ondrusek, Bray, Masset and maybe Brackman. I agree that the rotation isn’t stellar, but that bullpen can make a pitching staff look way better than it is.

"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."

by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Jan 21, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

not really. the zips projections make it pretty clear

That the brewers are our closest competition. The reds have votto, phillips,and bruce, but the remainder of the field is merely okay, with weaknesses at short and in left field. The rotation is latos who is good, cueto who is okay, and fairly weak offerings beyond that.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 2:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

LF is not really a weakness for them with Heisey.

He had a .343 wOBA last year and several projection systems like him to keep that up or improve on it next year.

They certainly have wild cards in Mesoraco and Rolen, but if those guys play well, the Reds will certainly be competition for the NL Central title.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 21, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm certainly not trying to say the cardinals

Will walk away with the title. I’m saying they are – ex ante – best positioned to take it. The brewers and, to a lesser extent, the reds are in a position to contend if things go well for them, or if things go badly for us.

Still, look at the reds zips projections: they have votto way out in front at 148 OPS+, jay bruce at 116+, and then a cluster of guys around 100 OPS+. Our projections look much more solid, with holliday, berkman, beltran, and craig.

I’m not that impressed by a .340 wOBA in LF. That’s a tick better than what we get from jon jay in center. Heisey has a 104 OPS+ projection from ZIPS; Jay has a 101 OPS+ projection.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 5:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

To get back to Heisey

My point was only that I don’t really see their LF situation as a “weakness.” While you may not be impressed with a .343 wOBA in LF, that’s still 10th out of 41 ML LF’ers who got 300 PAs last year. That’s pretty good.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 21, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Our second basemen,

who are undoubtedly our biggest weaknesses, combined project a lot better than Heisey when you consider defense and position. I agree with tom s. that most of are talent is distributed right of the Reds’.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 6:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I've come around to Fielder on the Cubs

I think Theo should give him a five year contract and Boras should squeeze out a higher AAV than Albert. good for both parties. Keeps the Cubs relevant while they re-build, zero risk of decline, and Fielder hits FA at 32 with 50 HRs a year for the last five years in Wrigley.

If Fielder wants to play on winner, he’ll go to Rangers (my personal hope so that the Angels never see the WS).. If he wants the 10 year Albert deal, he’ll end up in Florida or Washington

Just win

by The Duke on Jan 21, 2012 10:09 AM EST reply actions  

yeah, it makes most sense for the Cubs to sign him

beginning to think it’ll be weird to see him on another team. will be annoying for us, but they are still rebuilding big time.

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't think it makes any sense for the cubs to sign him

they will waste his remaining prime years paying him 20+ million with a team that is not ready to compete. and by the time you would think they are ready to compete he will be in decline.

by Wombat x on Jan 21, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, but I think people would like to see Fielder in the meantime

cubs fans would think they stand a shot with Prince, and it would be good for him if he’s interested in racking up home runs. but maybe it’s just me not really seeing a better landing spot for him.

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

rangers or nats probably

i have thought nationals from the beginning.

by Wombat x on Jan 21, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

do the nationals have enough $?

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see the Nats signing Fielder.

They just extended Morse. Why would they sign Fielder?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Morse can play LF

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

What about Harper & Werth, brah?

(I’m operating under the assumption that there’s a grammar rule stating any sentence containing Werth and Harper must end in “brah.”)

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh they can reconfigure once Harper is ready

I don’t necessarily see Morse and Fielder as mutually exclusive

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

And Morse is only signed for two years.

So it isn’t that big a deal.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

why do you think that? if the club has money to pay

For wins, why not? They have room to spend $100m in 2013 and beyond. You pick up fielder for $20m. Cespedes for $10m. They have a good outfielder coming up from the minors.

That leaves $70m to put two great starting pitchers, a third baseman, and the rest of the squad on the field in 2013 or 2014, while the non-St. Louis part of the division takes a huge dip.

If they’re clever about how they spend this gigantic cash advantage, they can close the gap fast.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 3:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Signing Fielder long term is not clever...

they’re going to want that $22 million freed up in 2015 when they’re competitive and he stinks.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

you didn't answer the question above of why they

Won’t compete in 2013 or 2014. But even if you say fielder will decline by half a win a year, he’d be worth 4.5 wins in 2012/4.0 wins/3.5 wins/3.0 wins in 2015.

If they’re paying him $20m in 2015, that’s an overpay of – what? $5m? Since, if he signed, he’d be the only free agent contractual commitment in 2015, I don’t see a modest overpay to him in the context of a $130-$140m budge as crippling.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 3:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

If Theo wanted to pursue the rebuild while also competing...

the best they could do would be a team of Soto-Fielder-Barney-Castro-Vitters(?)-Soriano-Byrd-DeJesus with starters Garza-Wells-Dempster-Maholm-Volstad-Cashner.

Let’s say they bring in Oswalt and re-sign Aramis Ramirez on a two year, high AAV deal and shoot the payroll to $140 million. This team still isn’t a competitor, is it? Plus they really want to trade Garza, which would completely cripple them for 2012-13, Fielder or no Fielder.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

ramirez is a brewer.

I’m not talking about 2012. I agree they won’t compete in 2012.

In 2013, they have more than $100m in budget space. The cubs have the wherewithal to buy their way into contention in 2013 and beyond.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 4:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

also, they traded cashner.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 4:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Yes I am aware...

I was talking about what they could’ve done if they had wanted to pursue a “re-build and compete” strategy.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

that's my thought

he’s perfectly suited to the raucous bleacher bum crowd and every two or three days they’ll have these great replays of HRs out onto Waveland. I think he’s a great fit if they can get him for 4-5 years. Gives Theo a year to build a credible team around him — makes too much sense for both sides.

Just win

by The Duke on Jan 21, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

well a lot of clubs have money to pay for wins but they don't because there isn't much value in wins 70 through 75 or whatever

i guess it depends on whether or not you think they can compete in 2013 or 2014. i thought they still had enough bad contracts on the books that it would make that pretty difficult

by Wombat x on Jan 21, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I think they have enough money to pick up

A couple top flight starters for 2013 (cain, marcum, greinke), a decent CF (cespedes, bourn, upton), and a very good infield addition (fielder, david wright).

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 7:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

i mean just to be clear you realize what your saying is they would be spending 350-400 million these next two years

estimates for those guys off the top of my head-

fielder-160
cespedes/upton- 50
a couple of top flight starters- cain and grienke get 80 million each (160 total)

i mean these estimates may be off but thats a pretty absurd amount of money, i don’t think any team even the yankees will be signing a combo of fielder/upton/cain/grenkie the next two years.

by Wombat x on Jan 21, 2012 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

that's a little steep. I don't see fielder getting 8y @ $20m.

But $300m spread among four players? Sure. The cubs have room to add $50-$70m per year.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 9:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

with the extra wild card, they may be able to stumble in

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

My brother in law is a self-flagellating cubs fan

When they hired Theo and Co., I told him they would be in the playoffs by 2015. They scare me long term more than any other NL team because, for the first time in a while, they have competence to mix with their money

2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 21, 2012 11:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

I think you don't know what self flagellation is

2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 21, 2012 11:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions   2 recs

heh

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

I can’t see Theo lasting long with that bunch of loonies sitting in the stands and writing for the papers.

"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 21, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

If the Cubs decide to kick it

into high gear and establish a good groundwork and I think they will they’ll outpace us with the dollars they can spend.

by openside on Jan 21, 2012 11:25 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Sorry that was a convoluted panic attack

the Cubbies scare me longterm. I’m afraid of the douchery that would be unleashed upon this land if and when they win a WS. RedSAWX 2.0. Shudder.

by openside on Jan 21, 2012 11:35 AM EST via Android app up reply actions   3 recs

Even more than the douchery they already unleash upon this land I suppose

and levels are already high

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 21, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

at least

There’s no way for them to cancel a WS against St. Louis like the Sawks.

Cards fan in Middle East

by Shloz on Jan 22, 2012 5:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Confirm/deny: This is the profile of your average AAAA hitter

Low contact%
High K%
Low BB%
High ISO
Good against fastballs, bad against other pitches

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 11:15 AM EST reply actions  

Except for the BB%

Looks an awful lot like Tyler greene

2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 21, 2012 11:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

that's what i thought

My AAAA guy is more mediocre at everything.

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think that was the point he was trying to make...

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

i know

they were two seperate thoughts of mine (in my reply) that i probably should have put into two comments.

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

...

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions   4 recs

what is this i don't even

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

AMERICA

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions

by ClemsonGirl on Jan 21, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

This is Saved by the Bell,

perhaps one of the greatest American television shows ever produced.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

i know

i loved that show! Just didn’t seem appropros

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Then you don't truly know.

Because Saved by the Bell is appropros in all situations.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions

by ClemsonGirl on Jan 21, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I just copied what he wrote.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions

by ClemsonGirl on Jan 21, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

then you copied wrongness

(if it’s got a red underline then right click and check the suggestions)

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I was just trying to make him feel better about himself.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions

by ClemsonGirl on Jan 21, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Aren't you like 3 years old?

How do you remember that?

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Yay Nickolodeon

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Had a huge crush on Tiffani amber thiesen

Its one f the reasons I watch white collar now

2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 21, 2012 12:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Winner

2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 21, 2012 12:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

that's a good way to go blind

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The best way, really.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 21, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

well, not the BEST way

but it’s pretty close

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

so what pray tell is the best way?

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

The best way is kinda like El Dorado

always heard of it, haven’t ever achieved it.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Just in case you run out of euphemisms

http://www.dribbleglass.com/subpages/euphemisms.htm

Warning: Better to read when family is not in the room. Makes for an awkward situation when you have to explain your mirthful chortles.

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Jan 21, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Am I that irritating?

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

In my experience, pretty much anything can be used as a euphenism

Given the correct tone, facial expression, and, most importantly, company.

by cardinalswsbound on Jan 21, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

well-turned euphemism is fun

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I admit I still have a thing for her

but she’s gotten kinda thick, and in the last episode it looked like she’s developed man hands

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 21, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe she's pregnant again.

2011 - Year of Our Berk

by spants on Jan 21, 2012 11:05 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

So, are you basically trying to figure out

the combination of skills that makes a hitter look good or great in the minors but leaves them susceptible in the majors?

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 21, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think I'm going to test it or anything

More just crowdsourcing right now

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I was going to say this describes Casey McGeheeheehee but his K% isn't all that high at all

And his ISO isn’t all that great either. Hm.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 21, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

It describes Brandon Wood, definitely

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe Ty Wigginton?

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 21, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

But he's managed to stick around too long to be a AAAA hitter/player, I guess...

I am only coming up with names of major leaguers to compare to and that kind of defeats the point, doesn’t it.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 21, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

High contact%, low K% actually

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Not that my profile is scientific or even correct by any means

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

oh wow...

didn’t realize that… He’s like a corn-belt Vladdy Guerrero

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Kind of early to declare him a AAAA hitter too, isn't it?

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 21, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah...

you have to get to AAA to qualify

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

just as soon as he knocks Hamilton out of the way

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

and it describes Casey McGehee sorta

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 6:42 AM EST up reply actions  

There was a post on AAAA hitters on SBN Baseball Nation a couple weeks ago.

I can’t really remember it that well, but it might have touched on this.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah but it was written by Al Yellon

So

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I think

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Jan 21, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

So it is.

But, it links to a Kevin Goldstein article on the topic at Baseball Prospectus. I don’t know if it is at all helpful for your premise.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah probably

The distinction between a AAAA player and a major league is wrong to make. What your really asking is if those things translate worse across levels. You’d have to actually look at the correlations, but I suspect those are among the worst.

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 6:40 AM EST up reply actions  

So SOPA was withdrawn, and PIPA postponed.

Is this the last we see of this, or will it be repackaged and brought again in a year?

2015 St. Louis Rotation-- Wainwright, Garcia, Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal...towels please

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 21, 2012 12:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Erm

i was going to comment on this, but then i thought /politics.

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

rumor is, it's going to get attached to a kiddie porn bill,

and then no one will bitch about it.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Jan 21, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

they'll be repackaged

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

No cheating allowed...

Who is the GM of the Florida Marlins?

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 21, 2012 12:31 PM EST reply actions  

Dan Duquette?

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Dan La'Roquette?

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Federico Garcia Loria

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 21, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

loria is the owner

can’t remember the GM’s name, but i’d know it if i heard it

by prophetjohn on Jan 21, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

false!

i would not have known the name if i heard it

it’s kind of a trick question since loria is essentially the GM

by prophetjohn on Jan 21, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

They don't have a GM?

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Bienvenidos a Miami

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 21, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Especially during hunting season

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 21, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Sinatra apparently said that orange is the happiest color.

He could pull it off and wore it a lot.

"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"

by mattybobo on Jan 21, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I've got my spine, I've got my orange cruuuuuush

doo-bee-doo-bee-doo

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Jan 21, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm glad they went with the orange hat.

The black one is boring.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I went to a wedding on the eve of the 06 World Series parade

in Dietrich, IL. The bridesmaids wore blaze orange dresses because the groom (who brought a shotgun in the limo with him) was a big hunter.

/times I wish I had a video camera

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 21, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

i saw my first miami marlins cap the other day.

suffice to say they look just as bad in person as they do online.

"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"

-azruavatar

by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 21, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

...

suffice to say they look just as bad in person as they do online in urine.

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmmmmmmmm

Wait isn’t it some common name? Mike Smith or something of the sort?

by cardinalswsbound on Jan 21, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember reading it in some article after they signed Buehrle

Cause I had to go look it up and see if that was actually right as I had never heard of the guy before.

by cardinalswsbound on Jan 21, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Close.

And Beinfest was GM for 6 years.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 21, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

NO ONE!

There is no such team!

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions

by ClemsonGirl on Jan 21, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm thinking that I'll just stick to calling the the "Florida" Marlins for now.

Kinda like the Angels are still the “Anaheim” or even “California” Angels

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 21, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

The correct answer is:

Vice President, General Manager: Michael Hill

Who the fu…….?

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 21, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh that's right, now I remmeber

Huh, just looked up their front office. Which do you think is a higher-ranking position, Special Assistant to the President or Owner?

by cardinalswsbound on Jan 21, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Owner....

But given the guys who actually hold these positions, I doubt they carry a whole hell of a lot of weight anyway.

Andre Dawson, Tony Perez, Jeff Conine, and Jack McKeon. Oh and some guy named Bill Beck.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Fausto Carmona?

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 21, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I presume you guys have all seen these vids

but for those who haven’t and are looking looking to kill 5 min Hitler’s reaction to Pujols signing with the Angels

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 12:34 PM EST reply actions  

It's not that bad

We still have Berkman

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 21, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

favorite line

Man I love having Berkman for another year

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Me too

though I hate the narrative that he will be finished at the end of 2012. 2012 will be only his age 36 season. Would love to see him gracing our presence for 3-4 more quality years.

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 21, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

me too, it doesn't fit with bringing up the young, promising, cheaper options and giving them playing time

But I so much love the personality that is Berkman, if they can find a way of keeping him and not preventing our young/cheaper options getting time I will be very happy.

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I so hate the DH

but if and when (and I think it’s when, not if) the NL has it thrust upon them, in some way I hope it is in time for us to employ Puma in that fashion during his twilight years.

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 21, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I personally hope the NL never adopts the DH, but if it does I hope it's for lances twightlitt years then

the NL decides to repeal it for ever more once he sucks at it

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, Hitler pretty much ruined that mustache style, didn't he?

Too bad – I would probably be quite dashing sporting “the Hitler.”

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Jan 21, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

o/

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

\o

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Jan 21, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I tried it out for a few minutes while shaving a few years back

but I didnt have the balls to go out in public like that

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 21, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

you guys are very baseball for a saturday morning.

"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"

-azruavatar

by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 21, 2012 12:34 PM EST reply actions  

oh great

look who’s here to lower the tone

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

oh thanks.

and don’t worry, i’m out of here for the afternoon here in about ten minutes.

"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"

-azruavatar

by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 21, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

don't go away mad

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

happy as happy can be.

"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"

-azruavatar

by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 21, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't realize the Rangers were going to

be operating at a deficit until their new TV deal kicks in in 3 years.

"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit

by BVHeck on Jan 21, 2012 12:53 PM EST reply actions  

Re: NL Central Rivals' Budgets

their [Brewers] budget has remained somewhere between $80m and $90m.

The Brewers appear to be sitting comfortably over $100mm. Baseball reference actually projects them to have the same payroll this year as the Cards.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/melvin-brewers-way-over-projected-budget.html

their [Reds] budget hovers around $80m.

BR projects the Reds at $96mm.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 21, 2012 12:54 PM EST reply actions  

The BR number takes into account the arb numbers for a bunch of players...

who won’t be on the team. Cot’s has the Reds at about $86M, and it seems as likely to fall as it does rise in 2013.

The Brewers are over 100 but their GM doesn’t seem comfortable with it.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Jan 21, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, I went by cots.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 2:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Anybody read

this? Obviously need a new edition to include Game 5 of the NLDS and Game 6 but is it still solid?

by cardinalswsbound on Jan 21, 2012 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

Oh wait, another maybe not

Didn’t see this before:

This view is of the Kindle book. A preview of the print book (Hardcover edition) is currently not available.

Would be much easier to add something to the Kindle edition than the print one.

by cardinalswsbound on Jan 21, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I kinda had forgotten the Astros are moving over

must be a rather exciting yet weird time to be an Astros fan. they move to a division with no clear cut dominant team like StL is in the NL Central. they went from having a horrible GM to what is likely going to be a great GM, if not the best.

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 1:58 PM EST reply actions  

Can you imagine what that would be like for Albert

to change leagues and still end up getting beat by the Astros in a few years?

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

that would be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

ahahahah!

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

The AL West has

no clear cut dominant team? Looks like 2 to me.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 21, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

but not 1

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm talking more in a historical sense fwiw

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

How is it that we're the "clear cut dominant" team?

We didn’t even win the division last year (and a different team has won the division each of the last four years).

Either the Rangers or the Angels would have to be considered more “dominant” than the Cards have been recently.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 21, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I think "long term" was implied, rather than dominant in a single season.

"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 21, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

We've made two postseason appearances in the last five years. Hardly dominant.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Two world series wins in the last 6 years

as opposed to 0 for the rest of the division since…. Fuck knows when. WE ARE TOTES DOMINANT BRAH.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

oh hi Rui

Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5

by Aranathor on Jan 21, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

holy crap its british rui

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 6:45 AM EST up reply actions  

It's funny.

I feel we were far more dominant from 2000-2005 than we were from 2006-2011. This illustrates the lucky crapshoot that is the postseason.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

like I said, there is no clearcut historical ONE TEAM that is best in the AL West

people misunderstood my comment, apparently

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, i should have read the comments first

Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 22, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Most likely GM's to be fired in 2012:

1. Ned Colletti
2. Kenny Williams
3.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 21, 2012 2:08 PM EST reply actions  

I think the rest of the list includes:

Dayton Moore – the farm system might save him, but they really need to win more games
Neal Huntington – See Dayton Moore
Jack Zduriencik – See Neal Huntington
Sandy Alderson – Mets fans and media are going to be all over the entire team if they are worse than last year….which looks likely
Walt Jocketty – A terrible season could spell the end for Jocko…not likely to happen though, Dusty would likely be the fall guy

Everyone else I would say is pretty safe.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 21, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Dusty rides highs then finds new job with a team with talent riding a wave

or am I completely wrong?

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

too bad

then all we’ll have is Ozzie and Valentine for amusement, but they should provide plenty of entertainment. I’m looking forward to Valentine in Boston next year. I have a friend who is a bandwagon boston fan

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Valentine in Boston during a slow start...

Pure gold.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Jan 21, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm almost looking forward to that as much as seeing what the Cards do next year

my fried and a few others, one I know from the smoking lounge weather checking station, were laughing it up about the sox until the last month

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see Dayton Moore going anywhere for a while

He’s completely turned around their farm system, which has become the envy of MLB. Plus, he’s a homer. If they can hold onto their talent, I see KC being a force in the years to come.

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Jan 21, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree...but at somepoint they have to start winning.

Failure to make progress in 2012 would probably have him on the hot seat. I think he needs about 75-78 wins this season.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 21, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Colletti is clearly gone after the Dodgers get a new owner.

I would take Alderson off the list. He inherited a shit sandwich, is well-respected, and everyone is aware that the Mets cannot buy their way out of it because of the ownership situation.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 21, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty amazed Colletti still has a job

I’m guessing Sabean was also mega-lucky that the Giants happened to luck into the WS a couple of years ago because that org kinda sucks as well.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jan 21, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Huntington should be OK.

His team is clearly heading in the right direction. As long as they don’t regress badly in 2012, his job should be safe.

I’d add Terry Ryan (Twins) and Dan O’Dowd (Rockies) to the vulnerable list.

"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 21, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Moore, Huntington, and Jack Z should all be safe barring regression.

Jocketty needs his team to be several games over .500 and Alderson should be fine as long as the media doesn’t bury him on a daily basis.

Colletti and Williams are the only obvious choices.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 21, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

oh..well then.

Dusty would be the only one fired if the Reds are terrible then. That would make 4 losing seasons out of 5 for Dusty in Cincy.

Trade Westbrook

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 21, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

They installed Terry Ryan a few months ago. Why would he be vulnerable?

He may not remain the GM but he will remain with the organization in an executive capacity when he steps down.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Truth.

It has been one of the most fun games to watch in college bball all year, in my mind.

by stlfan on Jan 21, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

They let a lot go today...

helps Mizzou, with only 7 players.

by stlfan on Jan 21, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Mizzou could move up to #2

with Syracuse, Baylor and Duke all losing. Kentucky likely the new #1, I’d bet either Mizzou or Kansas as #2, though Kansas struggled a bit with unranked Texas (in Texas). Nah, Mizzou’s 18-1 vs. KU’s 16-3, Mizzou #2, KU #3.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 22, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

And MU was ranked higher and beat the #3 team...

It’ll be Mizzou because voters will think that MU has no shot v. KU, so let them have their time in the sun…

by stlfan on Jan 22, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

so, here's a question I had in prepping the post:

If we want to take this “monetary value of the farm” and try to redistribute it into the future team projections, could you do it? how would you do it?

For instance, would you assume the value would accrue linearly over time, e.g., that if your farm is worth $180m in surplus value, it will be worth $30m a year for 6 years? Or would the value be heavily weighted towards the near term, with a disproportionate amount of value in years one, two, and three?

Obviously, each farm is different, with some talent being close to the majors and some being far off, but I wonder if there is a rough rule to follow which would allow you to make a general reckoning.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 21, 2012 3:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Take the square root of the logarithmic delineation

This should get you somewhere.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 21, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think it'd have to be very heavily weighted to the near term because of the variability of the underlying assets.

Injury and performance could lead to wild swings in value on a yearly basis for the same assets, plus there is significant fluctuation in that new assets are added. (plus all of this depends on the assets being accurately weighed/assessed in the first place, which is a big issue)

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 21, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Could it be stated in WAR

With WAR approaching $5M/win, will the farm system produce 6 WAR per season for the next 6 years, in addition to what we already have on the ML roster?

by stlfan on Jan 21, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

One of Leach's last pieces for the Cardinals-

Q&A with amateur scouting director Kantrovitz

Not much crunchy info (to be expected, really). Vaguely touches on the draft at the end.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 21, 2012 4:18 PM EST reply actions  

OK.

#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough

by The Continental on Jan 21, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Wut

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, the Leaping Laird fanpost is no longer on the front page - that's a shame

Even though I didn’t comment while it was still very active, I thought it was absolutely awesome. Thanks to everyone who did a photoshop.

by BTown Birds fan on Jan 21, 2012 5:10 PM EST reply actions  

just change your fanpost settings so that it shows more

it’s on my front page

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

that was a big find for me too

it’s a great feature. also make your commenting screens wider if you haven’t

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I've had it open in a tab since it went up

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Jan 21, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

If this has already been mentioned, my apologies.

HardballTalk’s started gathering all mentions of Best Shape of My Life
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/search/best+shape+of+his+life

Still not a werewolf.

by clank on Jan 21, 2012 5:32 PM EST reply actions  

Catching up on baseball and other internet things (non-SOPA related) from the last week

So the A’s signed Gomes? And are very interested in Ramirez?
I’m so excited for this Moneyball sequel.
Anything else worth knowing (baseball, VEB, internet)? I know about Darvish.
oh look, Dickey didn’t break himself on Kilimanjaro.

Still not a werewolf.

by clank on Jan 21, 2012 5:42 PM EST reply actions  

must be a real pain to have to try to field a team with no competitive payroll

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 21, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

The Cardinals signed Kyle McClellan for $2.5MM and avoided salary arbitration.

They are in discussions with Motte and may sign him to multi-year deal.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 21, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

News (AFAIK):
  • Indians sign Kevin Slowey (Fausto Carmona insurance) and Julio Lugo (minor league contract)
  • Rays sign Carlos Pena (1/7.25)
  • Rangers sign Brad Hawpe
  • Nats extend Michael Morse (2/10.5) … probably takes them out of the Fielder bidding
  • Cubs resign Rodrigo Lopez (minor league contract)
  • Orlando Cabrera retires
  • Rockies sign Jamie Moyer

by hr on Jan 21, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, that Michael Morse bit is great. I missed that.

I suspected it was a Boras waiting game. The market certainly seems to be lacking.
Which reminds me, Edwin Jackson. heh.
Thanks.

Still not a werewolf.

by clank on Jan 21, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Thought the Indians might go after Jackson, now that his asking price has dropped.

Ah, well.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

Sign Mark Prior!

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 21, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Just back from Bama's National Championship celebration

Where I wore my Cardinals World Series Champs shirt…one hell of a fun year for me it was…both my teams defied the odds.

by RollBirdsRoll on Jan 21, 2012 5:51 PM EST reply actions  

Good for you

I know the feeling. i was reveling in the Cards and Packers both being defending champs up until a week ago.

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Jan 21, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

apparently i completely missed a radiohead tour announcement

already sold out in austin, houston and dallas.

not sold out at…wait for it…scottrade center in st louis. screw you guys

by prophetjohn on Jan 21, 2012 6:49 PM EST reply actions  

Pujols

With a few months to think about it, I’ve concluded a few things about the Albert situation that I hadn’t completely assimilated in the first few days.

1. The cards DID want to sign Albert but only in a way that would not impede competing and winning (no surprise there as that has been the Cards public position).

2. The Cards were, indeed, surprised that teams would give him that kind of AAV for 10 years. I think Mo and DeWitt had carefully pitched their deal to be strong enough that a competing deal wouldn’t be big enough to justify leaving. Angels got that big Fox Contract and blew Albert away — he couldn’t say no.

3. Albert tried to say it wasn’t about the money when it really was but instead of casting aspersions on him, I think I chalk it up to him not wanting to admit to himself that it was all about the money. He thinks he’s above that, but no one leaves a lottery ticket on the table and doesn’t cash it in.

4. His wife should have never been allowed on the radio

5. The Cards probably thought they could live without Albert and now are giddy to be without Albert. Reading through Tom’s post and Sickel’s reviews, if you were Bill Dewitt, what gives you a chhnce to win more pennants; Stars and Scrubs for the next ten years or the mixture of vets and rookies we have coming for the next ten years.

6. Maybe the Mang didn’t like living in the shadow of the Man. I can see the value of being “The Mang” for the Angels — the guy everyone will look up to for the rest of his life. Maybe he didn’t want to be one of the red jackets, but the only red jacket.

7. We got the best of Albert. He was already going through small slumps — it would have been frustrating to watch as a Cards fan. Now all my memories are all good

Good Luck, Mang.

3.

Just win

by The Duke on Jan 21, 2012 7:13 PM EST reply actions  

I think you have it.

but what is the 3. at the end for? (edit it out)

4 and 5 should be bolded. (4. in all caps)

6. To have superseded The Man’s numbers would have been massively massive, and not a sports feat to be repeated in our lifetimes, and he discarded that for $.

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 21, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Dont know if its been posted,

But the link is on MLBTR. Mayo ranks Adams 6th on list of 1st base propects.

by mick311 on Jan 21, 2012 7:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

it is fantastic.

"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit

by BVHeck on Jan 21, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

So nightwish has aparently sold out Universal Ampitheatre tonight.

I was counting on getting tix at the door- looks like I’ll be scalping in the parking lot, which is tough to do, there. damn.

Good for them, though. Wonder what Tarja is up to, tonight…

"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?

by SleepyCA on Jan 21, 2012 9:23 PM EST reply actions  

Just watched The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo

and let me say, Rooney Mara is a revelation. Yeah, I remember her from the Social Network, but damn – what an actress. If that stupid Meryl Streep wins the Oscar for best actress instead of her I’m gonna throw a fucking fit.

Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam

by peppermartin on Jan 21, 2012 10:45 PM EST reply actions  

put that in your mean

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

/if

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

huh

it was an amazing statistcal phenomenon!

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

...
A lovely man, with lovely symmetry. Musial stroked two hits in his first game in the majors Sept. 17, 1941. He ended his career with two hits in his final game Sept. 29, 1963, in St. Louis. And with those last two hits, Musial finished with 1,815 hits at home and 1,815 on the road. As the writer George Will once wrote, “baseball’s rich in wonderful statistics, but it’s hard to find one more beautiful than Stan Musial’s hitting record. He didn’t care where he was, he just hit.”

11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... Az.

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 22, 2012 1:01 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

The Man

"young man, when you throw a strike, Mr. Hornsby will let you know"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2012 1:30 AM EST up reply actions  

With all due respect

Tom, you’re a manager aren’t you?! That’s the only reason I can think of for your constant use of “going forward”. Has there ever been a more pointless expression. You can’t go back in time and if fact you can’t go sideways in time. Time marches on….er… forward that is. It can only, theoretically, go in one direction….FORWARD!!! Don’t get me wrong, I love the work you boys do and I’m here on your site constantly for my Cardinal fix, but please can you refrain from using that damn expression anymore. Just my own personal quirkiness talking here. No offense intended.

by Wileyvet on Jan 21, 2012 11:43 PM EST reply actions  

Going forward in my own life

I’ll give 110% to making sure I don’t literally get stuck in this verbal quagmire again.

by openside on Jan 22, 2012 12:02 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

not a manager.

Linguistic pecadillo noted.

i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus

by tom s. on Jan 22, 2012 12:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

going in reverse

is much harder in my car. Because there is a lock on the gear shifter that you have to lift up on, plus the gearing in first and reverse is so short, it’s easy to stall if you aren’t use to it.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Jan 22, 2012 3:51 AM EST up reply actions  

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