the art of the deal
by tom s. on Jan 14, 2012 7:20 AM EST
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Printtheyyesterday saw what was maybe the third mega-trade of the season (along with the latos, marshall, and continuing rumors of a garza trade). the cardinals show few, if any, signs of putting together such a trade. however, there's some value in taking a look at what we have to trade, and what we might be interested in.
a good place to start in discussing what we have to trade is future redbirds new top 20. if you haven't checked it out yet, you should. there may be some room to trade from the major league roster, but the most likely major league trade bait lies in our bullpen - mitch boggs, kyle mcclellan, for instance.
the untouchables: there are a couple prospects that i don't see the club ever trading. shelby miller seems off-limits, just because of his overwhelming talent and proximity to the majors. it's hard to think about what would be a fair return on miller. kolten wong also seems like a player the club will not move, having little serious rivalry at second base. trading wong would create a bigger vacuum than what any trade would fix.
the unlikely: i don't think these two prospects are out of bounds, but i think they probably have at least as much value to this club, if not more, relative to other clubs. matt adams i wouldn't have put in this category prior to the failed pujols negotiations. with pujols gone, adams has far more value to the club. however, adams seems like a decent, not great, first baseman. more important, first basemen seem far easier to replace on the free agent market at a reasonable price. oscar taveras is the other prospect who seems unlikely to move. he may be the cardinals best position player prospect. he's astonishingly talented. however, taveras carries a few question marks, and outfielders are not as hard to replace as other position players. last, he's still a couple years away. i think the club would have to be seriously tempted to consider trading either one.
the high-end talent: the club is chock-full of excellent pitching talent. as such, either carlos martinez or tyrell jenkins could be trade bait. they would be the centerpiece of any trade in which they were involved. expect great things in return for either.
they were expendable: in the event we are hunting less stellar prey, the second tier of our pitching talent could well be in play. joe kelly, jordan swagerty, trevor rosenthal, or maikel cleto are all possibilities. i think we'd be selling low on rosenthal, so i'd be most surprised to see him go anywhere - he lacks the market value of higher end talent, unless the trading partner scouts him carefully.
the third base crew: zack cox and matt carpenter are obviously fairly redundant, especially with a resurgent, world series hero david freese still more or less healthy. while there is nothing safe, the club realistically only needs so many third basemen. the no-brainer would be to put cox on the block. as a first-round pick he has an obvious pedigree that will be readily apparent and highly valued by a trading partner. carpenter is unlikely to have the same currency on the market, but may have equal value to this club. some players have obvious value that sells well on the trade market. others have value that will be hard to see for a club that hasn't scouted the player very carefully. cox is clearly the former; carpenter is the latter.
the targets: where would the club look for help? shortstop, center field, possibly a catching prospect, maybe an improvement prospect over adams at first? third base, left field, starting pitching, and the bullpen are all strengths. wong looks like a steady, up-and-coming second baseman. fellow prospects, like hak ju lee at short, or peter bourjos in center. and you'd need to match with a club with needs in this area - easy enough, when starting pitching is what you're selling. because cox is so expendable, i'd look for someone with an opening at third.
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I would like to see us trade...
Zack Cox, John Jay, McLellan, and Westbrook for a productive and young center fielder.
. . . and the sign Oswalt.
But I would not be surprised if Miller pitches well enough in Spring Training to make the team. Whether he does or not may come down to whether we still have Westbrook or whether we signed Oswalt.
we had a young and productive center fielder in 2011. He was the cornerstone of a trade that helped us win the World Series.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by SheckieZx on Jan 14, 2012 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
its even funnier the 10,000th time you do it
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry.
it’s like a disease now.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
you do realize
that this is a kick in the nuts every time you do it?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
He said sorry
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 14, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
He didn't mean it.
I can tell.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 14, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
He seemed sincere.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Is there any way to make the picture right justify?
That would be funnier
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 14, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
align=right in the img tag
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 14, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
thanks, that looks better considering the direction his head is
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 14, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like you should have a week ban the next time I see that image
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 14, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
only took a minute, to bad Sheckie had to pay for it
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 14, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Except for Cox, none of those players have any trade value
And Westbrook probably has negative trade value
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Jan 14, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
if other teams know how to value players
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
John Jay is a productive and young CF.
Over the last two years, Jay has been performing at about a 2.5 WAR/500PA pace. That’s pretty good.
For reference that is comparable to Austin Jackson (2.5 WAR/500PA), Drew Stubbs (2.6), Colby Rasmus (2.4), Denard Span (2.4), Adam Jones (2.2) and Dexter Fowler (2.15). These are other young and productive CF’ers.
And if you really meant young and awesome CF’ers, like McCutchen, Ellsbury, Kemp, or even Chris Young or BJ Upton, then a poo poo platter of the players listed isn’t close to being sufficient for a trade.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
yeah I don't understand why people write him off other than the high babip
even if he comes down from the plateau he is still what is described: a productive, young CF
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
All of this.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
I'd love to see the Cards go all-in
I’d like to see them sign Oswalt which seems like such a no-brainer to me that I can’t believe it has not happened. I’d like to see a package for players including Freeze which would offset Oswalt’s salary to pick up a better second basemen but not sure who is available to fit that bill and put Carpenter/Cox firmly into the 3b slot.
Just win
If they decide to go "all in" they could just bump payroll for one year and FA Oswalt and keep all their players
To trading away the Mayor would be incredibly ill advised post pujols defection, TLR/Dunc retirement, loss of familiar faces like McKay, etc.
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 14, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
How does trading Freese offset Oz' salary?
He’s dirt cheap by baseball standards.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 14, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
It's complete nonsense.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"a package including Freeze"
I find it humorous that the same site that cannot stand the thought of Morris getting into Hall of Fame can’t see the value of trading Freeze. They have the same story-line, great WS performance and slightly above-average career. He’s injury-prone, has had drinking problems, backed up by not one, but two equivalents in the minors, and has enormous value. A team that planned for Pujols to leave certainly would have not trouble losing their WS hero.
I love Freeze and happy for him to stay, but I think in a pure sabr sense, we’d be better off trading him and piling up more WAR in other places given how tough the division will be AND how likely it is that some combination of Berkman, Beltran, Craig, Furcal, Carp and Waino will miss major time due to injuries.
Just win
Plenty of people here advocated trading Freese.
It looked like his value was fairly high. Then the World Series happened. Now he’s the Mayor of St. Louis, so discussing a trade seems pretty pointless. His value is still high, but he just isn’t going to be traded now.
Discussing a hypothetical Freese trade may have some intellectual merit, but holds little practical value.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 14, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
if david freese starts demanding a ten year, $240m contract,
I agree we’ll consider trading him.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 14, 2012 3:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The spreadsheet experts that hold sway now that La Russa is gone...
don’t believe WS heroics are likely to be duplicated. Freese is the exact guy we should be thinking about trading – over-rated, injury prone, old-ish. We should add Cox and Carpenter to the active roster and see who plays better.
Sign Roy O
I don't disagree with any of that about Freese,
I just don’t see it happening. Not in the same off-season that A) The team lost its biggest star and B) Freese became a hero.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 14, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
Freese’s stock will never be higher, but right now the emotional attachment is unseverable. They’re charging more for his WWU autograph session than for Wainwright’s and Carpenter’s. Wainwright + Jaime = Freese
I think that’s bad math. Emotional math is bad math, you guys.
Still not a werewolf.
He won't be traded before the season starts, if at all.
TC isn’t saying that he shouldn’t be traded, just that he won’t be traded. There’s a difference between the two.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
...
over-rated, injury prone, old-ish.
I’m pretty sure other teams are also hip to Freese’s failings, and that he’s not likely to re-produce his production in the WS.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think he is over rated around here
More like under rated. I like to see a season of him healthy and I like his away power.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 14, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
what are pivot tables?
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
I'm actually really good at Excel
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I can't NOT confirm
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Double negative
So you can confirm
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jan 14, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
is freeze a nickname, an intentional misspelling/diss, or do you just think it's spelled that way?
just wondering, not trying to be an ass
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
What the hell does Jack Morris have to do with this?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
something something can of worms
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
I know about the can of worms...
I just don’t see how debating the merits of Morris’s HOF credentials has anything to do with this. No one thinks David Freese is a HOF’er and no one would have wanted to trade Jack Morris during his prime. The 2 things are totally unrelated.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Why even bother mentioning Freese as a trade possibility?
The dude is staying put for now.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
He is also fragile.
Carpenter and Cox will get plenty of opportunities to strut their stuff (such as it is) when the inevitable weird injury lays Freese low for a month.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 14, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Fragile or not....he's not going to get traded right now.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Correct.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 14, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
MLB Trade Rumors says....
that Oswalt’s one-year asking price may be as low as “$8 million” right now. MLB Network just reported that the Red Sox, in light of the Pineda-to-Yankees trade, will be looking to sign either Oswalt or trade for Garza.
The time for us to sign Oswalt is NOW. Ask questions later.
unless they decide to up the payroll, fuhgeddaboutit
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
If Mo was going to trade Freese
he would’ve done it sooner and then went after Aramis Ramirez.
Sign somebody.
by EinFesteBusch on Jan 14, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Wagonmaker serving at Pappy's tomorrow per Bernie.
On Sunday, please head to Pappy’s on 3106 Olive Street near midtown for some delicious barbecue served by Cardinals pitcher Adam Wainwright. He’ll be joining Pappy’s owner Mike Emerson for a good cause; all proceeds from BBQ sales will go to Catch a Dream Foundation, an organization that provides an outdoors experience for terminally ill children. Doors open at 11 a.m.
Winner of the prestigious 2011 MVL as presented by Alxfritz.
"You didn't win LOY, but you did win MVL, which is a prestigious award I just made up. And that’s something RiverRat can never take from you." - Alxfritz
by Green Man! on Jan 14, 2012 9:21 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I hope he doesn't slip on BBQ sauce!
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
I don't see any trade involving these prospects that I like.
The problem isn’t so much excessive attachment to them, as that I don’t see any except Miller fetching more than an “average” player in return, even as part of a big package. Real stars simply aren’t on the trading block right now, regardless of what is offered for them. (Example: does Pittsburgh part with McCutchen for that package suggested above? Not in a million years.)
The team doesn’t need any more “average” players. If it needs anything, it’s stars up the middle. Ain’t none available.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
probably not
but what about rearranging the deck chairs a little?
who’s our best defensive 3rd baseman/candidate, if not freese, then should he be next in line at first if this is bman’s last year?
just sayin i am not anti-skip in general, but it seems to me they could have molded tg into that role (center and 2nd backup) and had a much more valuable and less expensive option
TLR is gone, long live the king
Yeah, probably as regards Skippy
although I am no TG fan. As regards moving Freese to 1B, we have this whole year to see whether it will be better in the long run to do that, give Adams the job, or look outside the system for someone who can mash. If option #3 there is best, then a raid on the farm system at that point may make sense. But not now.
One of the big challenges when one has come into a windfall, as a loaded farm system is when the major-league roster is strong, is to avoid the temptation to spend it prematurely. There may well be a deal involving prospects that makes sense at the trade deadline, or next winter. I don’t see one now.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 14, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Understood
but there seems to be enthusiasm in other quarters for trading from the farm system NOW. I think that’s misguided.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 14, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
I think that's mostly just people getting bored
There’s not much the Cards are going to do, so they think about possible trades to fill the void. I know cause I do the same thing.
"Let me tell you something kid; Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either because they're too scared, or they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. You shouldn't let it go by."
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die, follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
-Babe Ruth in the movie "Sandlot"
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 14, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
matt adams and david freese have very similar projections
For this year. Our long-tern first base option will likely be either craig or adams, if it’s internal which it might not be.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 14, 2012 3:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Incidentally, speaking of Tyler Greene,
did anybody see the article at Baseball Prospectus this week on the existence of “AAAA players”? Comments and opinions?
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
For starters, because he's not Espinosa, he's Greene.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 14, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Yes and I don;t think it applies to Greene
If I remember, the essence was that AAAA players are really major league players with only one great skill which is why they can’t hang on. Greene can hit, field, and run. I think his issue is he just wasn’t a TLR player whatever that means. We’ll know everything we need to know about Greene by the end of year.
I’m cautiously optimistic that he is our shortstop in 2014.
Just win
That wasn't the only point in the article.
There was a big long section with the title “An Inability to Make Adjustments” connected with opposing scouts and pitchers, “mental stuff where players get overwhelmed,” and so on. The concluding line was interesting: “Still, for the most part, the industry believes that there are some players who will never make the adjustments, and there are some scouting clues as to who those players will be.”
I’ve wondered if TG is like that. The eerie consistency of his three ML seasons so far (batting averages: .222, .221, .212) makes me wonder if he’ll ever adjust to whatever is different between Memphis and the majors. And he’s running out of time. He’ll be 29 in August.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 14, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
His problem in that regard extends far past Memphis.
That problem is that he strikes out too much. And he’s had that problem since Georgia Tech.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
OT -- sorry, but does anyone have a win probability graph from say 25 Aug through 28 Oct?
Or beginning of postseason to of WS?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 14, 2012 11:02 AM EST reply actions
that will do nicely ... thanks you Cac!
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 14, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Cack!
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 14, 2012 1:57 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
bless you
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
What is Cack!?
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 14, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
the kind of sound one may make when gagging
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
We Cud Probably....
…get Cliff Pennington from the A’s, if we really wanted to. Not sure he’s worth Cox, but…
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
if we hadn't signed Furcal
i would be all for a trade for Pennington, i like him.
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
Your reason for not trading Rosenthal...
is my reason for listening on Adams. I’m not sure his value will ever be higher than right now. To me he’s a sell-high if there ever was one. He garnered a lot of attention last year for the tear he went on in Springfield. That being said he probably doesn’t bring much back by himself. A package with him, Cox (kinda redundant) and a starter whose last name doesn’t start with M could bring back a HUGE return.
"Progress always involves risk; you can't steal second base and keep your foot on first base." - Frederick Wilcox
Even if you like Miller in ST
And can’t move Westbrook/Lohse, how do you not sign Oswalt at that price?
Move Westbrook to ’pen, make Lohse 5th starter and have Miller ready in June for any potential injury to the rotation.
Yeah, its $8 M towards something we have a full load of but you can never have enough starting pitching.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 14, 2012 11:57 AM EST via mobile reply actions
But who does Westbrook replace in the pen?
Assuming five right handers in the bullpen, you’d have Motte, McClellan, Westbrook, and two of Boggs, Lynn, Salas, and Sanchez (Reifer, Fick, Ottavino and Cleto are less likely candidates, but still candidates). Is the team better with Oswalt in the rotation and Westbrook in the pen, or with Westbrook in the rotation and one of the better relievers on the major league roster?
Obviously trading Westbrook solves this problem, but you can’t count on that happening.
somebody has to warm up the bullpen catchers.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
K-Mac or Boggs would likely be traded.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
the key is trading kmac
westie becomes kmac
oswalt replaces westie
net cost is about 6M
if you can find a place for westie,, so much the better
i’d try to get oz with an option
TLR is gone, long live the king
he was giving the more realistic option
Although, if you trade kmac and sign Oswalt, then Westy might wave his NTC simply because he doesn’t want to be in the bullpen. I don’t think he will wave it until it is blatantly obvious that he doesn’t have a starting role anymore.
by RasmustheRipper on Jan 14, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
why?
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2012 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
KMac>Westy
in my mind. Coming out of the pen, I feel completely comfortable with McClellan pitching against righties or lefties and being able to shut them down. As a reliever, he has allowed a 98 tOPS+ and has over 2 Ks per BB. He only has a .690 OPS against as a reliever – his numbers were even better than this before his “tired arm” stint last year in the pen. (Last year those numbers were: 137 tOPS+, 1.77 K:BB, and .828 OPS in 37 innings).
He’s only entering his age 28 season, as well. He’s actually much better against lefties than righties, and I believe that our pen is quite set from the right side. If we’re taking a statistical organizational approach, sent down from the top to Matheny, then I want this split in my bullpen over Westy.
Westy is entering his age 34 season and has already steadily gotten worse from his age 31 to age 32 to age 33 seasons.
I dunno, they are both not so good
I’d trust Westbrook more but yeah, it’s kind of a wash.
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think the issue is that it's not a good deal standing on its own (1yr/$8MM)
I think the issue is that it puts the Cards something like $8 million above their expected salary ceiling. The other issue is that Oswalt may be willing to take a 1yr deal to build his value for next year (show he’s healthy, etc.) but he’s probably thinking that he needs a rotation spot to do that.
I’d love for the Cards to do the following – dump the salaries of Schu and KMac through trade (frees up about $4MM), move Westbrook to bullpen long man, sign Oswalt to a 1yr/8MM deal for a rotation spot, and bump up payroll by ~$4MM dollars.
But I don’t think any of those individual actions are likely to occur, much less all of them.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, already at $110 million right?
I don’t see them going beyond that, but I guess it’s possible.
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
JPA
With D’Arnaud so close, I would think long and hard about trying to get JP Arencibia from Toronto. And I agree with you about Martinez and Cox—both seem to have a lot of value, and I’m not as psyched about either of them as their creds tend to indicate.
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Jan 14, 2012 12:10 PM EST reply actions
Mexican League
On baseball-reference, the Mexican League is listed under AAA. Is that a pretty good comparison to the minors – could I look at Mexican League stats and figure that if they were in AAA that’s how they would be playing?
Anyone know?
The only way to determine that is to study everyone who's gone in between leagues
I don’t know how to find that info offhand
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Caravan Time
I don’t think I was ready to see Motte with hair gel, glasses and a collared shirt under his uniform. Speechless.
by McLaughlin_Stole_My_Beer on Jan 14, 2012 1:23 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Q to Motte: Whats the best game you ever played?
Motte: Well I played Call Of Duty the other night.
Well done Motte. Well done.
by McLaughlin_Stole_My_Beer on Jan 14, 2012 1:32 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Who's that all by himself at the right-hand end of the curve?
Also: does anyone else see a resemblance between this and a Hertzsprung-Russell diagram?
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 14, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Adam Dunn, I think
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Oh wait 2010
I ’unno
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I can't find anybody obvious for this.
Casey Kotchman and Brandon Wood are at the end of the curve, but there’s no big gap between them and the field the way there is on the chart.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 14, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Pedro Feliz?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
He's at -1.9 and the lowest according to fangraphs
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
And it wasn't
Skip Schumaker (-.2), Nick Stavinoha (-.3) or Koyie Hill (-.6)
(I just wanted to list those guys because I’m a masochist.)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
you sure you don't mean sadist?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I knew it was going to be painful to look up the WARs for those guys, and yet I did it anyway.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
but then you decided to 'share' those findings with us
stats definitely have an S&M quality to them
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Reporting from Carpenter presser
StullySTL Brian Stull
Carp started throwing 2 weeks ago, shoulder feels stronger this year at this point than last year when he began.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
why does good news
always sound omnious at this time of year?
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
It was weaker last year, which is why he got (unlucky) off to a slow start?
Right?… Right?
by RasmustheRipper on Jan 14, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
He got off to a slow start because Ryan Theriot was his SS
And Skip Schumaker was his 2B
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 14, 2012 6:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We didn't have to worry about Carp's shoulder
when Schumaker was the starting second basement
by RasmustheRipper on Jan 14, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
BSoHL?
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
No way Carp will ever say that.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 14, 2012 6:29 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Who cares about the shoulder?
How’s the toe, dammit!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 14, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
..
Carpenter, not a part of the rescue, had injured his toe hopping from boat to boat.
“I bumped it a little bit. And I wrestled anacondas … none of that was true,” said Carpenter, laughing. “I’m fine.”
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 15, 2012 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
I'd consider taking a chance on Scott Baker or Billingsley or Wade Davis...
Garza is probably the best guy left, but I would never send a prospect to the Cubs.
Sign Roy O
Fair to cast Mo as predominantly "deadline dealer"?
Having trouble recalling his biggest offseason trade. Given all factors, fixing a leak at midseason with a trade seems the likely course again in ’12.
He did pull off the...
Rolen for Glaus and Edmonds for Freese in the same offseason years ago. Last year was Ryan for Ryan, but I don’t think that helps.
"Progress always involves risk; you can't steal second base and keep your foot on first base." - Frederick Wilcox
ryan for cleto; other ryan for hawksworth.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 14, 2012 3:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
and then we won the WS
it is what it is
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
which reminds me
Furcal says he is keeping No. 15…..“When I had my number we won the World Series.”
Still not a werewolf.
heh
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
it is what it is.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Carp wants you to know
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 14, 2012 3:22 PM EST reply actions
Should I know who Skip Bayless is?
This morning someone was going on about how he’s one of the best in the sports industry. I recognize the name, but that’s it. I don’t remember recognizing it as “one of the best out there” but hey what do I know?
Still not a werewolf.
Are you sure they weren't being sarcastic?
I don’t think I’ve ever talked to anyone who actually likes Bayless.
"Let me tell you something kid; Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either because they're too scared, or they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. You shouldn't let it go by."
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die, follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
-Babe Ruth in the movie "Sandlot"
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 14, 2012 3:49 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I seem to recall that he's fairly high on the asshat scale.
Haven’t really paid any attention to him the past several years.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 14, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
This is someone with whom I pleasantly disagree about most things sports.
And politics. And religion. And buttered candy corn.
But not black licorice. Except the salty kind.
Still not a werewolf.
(salty licorice?)
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 14, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
In my opinion
Bayless and Stephen A Smith are the front-runners for the “Most annoying person on the ESPN payroll” award
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
I just glanced over his timeline
He’s at least the treasurer in Tebow’s fan club.
Still not a werewolf.
So Bayless likes Tebow?
Then that’s probably the only good thing I can think of about Bayless.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
@realskipbayless
My advice to Tebow is the same as last week’s: Play MAD. Play like you MEAN it. Remember, more ppl DO NOT BELIEVE IN YOU than do.
Still not a werewolf.
I am just really fascinated by this Tim Tebow phenomenon
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I'm a huge Broncos fan and absolutely hate him. It leaves me at odds with myself
Which is kind of strange
"Let me tell you something kid; Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either because they're too scared, or they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. You shouldn't let it go by."
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die, follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
-Babe Ruth in the movie "Sandlot"
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 14, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
I like Tebow mainly
because he seems like a genuinely good guy, and because it seems like a lot of people want to tear him down for reasons that I think say more about them than him.
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7455943/believing-tim-tebow
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The counterpoint
"Let me tell you something kid; Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either because they're too scared, or they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. You shouldn't let it go by."
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die, follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
-Babe Ruth in the movie "Sandlot"
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 14, 2012 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I would say this supports my point.
He seems like a genuinely good guy and people want to tear him down for reasons like the ones listed there – most of which have to do with others’ coverage of or opinions about him.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
I think that Tebow is an entirely likeable guy...
I just think that he has performed as one of the worst QBs in the league this year statistically and has gotten more coverage (good and bad) as all of the rest of the QBs combined. That’s in a year in which Aaron Rogers has maybe the best season of any QB ever and three others throw for over 5,000 yards – two of them breaking the single season passing yards record.
Didn't finish my point, sorry
So I’m rooting for the Broncos to lose because I don’t want to hear more about a guy who has less talent than the other players at his position and on his own team.
I try not to guess how much "coverage" a player is getting or base anything on it.
He’s gotten coverage because he’s been a “story” (much of the story fueled by the Broncos winning while people were saying how horrible he was and that they couldn’t win with him).
As for Rodgers, Brady, and Brees, they are all great players on better teams, are Super Bowl winners, and are better QBs than Tebow. I don’t think anyone has argued that Tebow is better than them and, goodness, they get plenty of coverage as well. I can’t watch TV for five minutes without being advised to do the discount double check.
I just can’t buy into any idea that says Brady, Brees, or Rodgers don’t get enough coverage.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
Rudy kind of sucked at football
Everybody loves him anyway.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
skip schumaker says: "tell me more about this 'rudy.'"
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 14, 2012 10:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I have started wishing him success mostly for the same reasons
I’m so tired of hearing about how much people hate him. In a similar way I started having these weird feelings about Jeter and A-Rod and wanted to see them do well just because. Also, I agree, he seems like a sincere guy and I think there’s nothing wrong about that.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Yeah, I've started to like Derek Jeter just because so many people dislike him.
He’s a HOF shortstop. Actually, you should compare Barry Larkin’s career with Derek Jeter’s career. Very similar.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 14, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
They are pretty similar, aren't they
Jeter has been over rated, I think, but the backlash to that got so intense that I think some people forgot that he was still an awesome player. So, he might have actually been over rated and under rated at the same time, for a while there. If that is possible.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Not only is it "possible"
it happens all the time with polarizing players. Any long-time Yankee is, almost by definition, a polarizing player.
Jeter can be overrated by a large factor by Yankee partisans, and still be an awesome player when viewed in isolation.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 14, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
The thing that annoys me most about the Jeter phenomenon is that he might end up a first ballot HOFer
while many similar or superior players wait years to get in.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Not his fault, obviously, which is what I mean by the "phenomenon" of Jeter
Jeter himself is fine, I guess, except I really didn’t like that TV commercial with Harvey Keitel where he stole the base and it was all artsy and dramatic.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
the Yankees effect
11 in 11' √
"2011 is dead. Long live 2012!." ... azruavatar
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 15, 2012 7:51 AM EST up reply actions
Wait, didn't we see that Jeter has been eerily similar to Larkin?
And Larkin waited, what, two years? (and many, many folks, including the saber ones, thought he should have gotten in last year.)
Plus Jeter is going to go over 70 war and probably reach 3000 hits. He deserves to be a first ballot guy.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 15, 2012 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
I was thinking more about the Bagwells, Trammells, and Blylevens of the world.
Though Trammell is probably a step down from Jeter; he managed not-quite 70 fWAR and was done by 38, whereas Jeter has still been putting up average-ish seasons and projects to do the same at least for next year (again, according to fWAR).
Basically, I wasn’t just thinking about similar shortstops, I was thinking about players with similarly good careers who have been overlooked. Though that problem did not start with Jeter and won’t end with it.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Finally got to see Moneyball.
Pretty decent movie. I do have to say that it must have been a son of a bitch having to deal with all those old school baseball guys while trying something that radically different.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 3:48 PM EST reply actions
Today's edition of the online LA Times had an article on the number of scouts that lost their jobs (103)
after the 2003 season. The Baseball Scouts Foundation is having their 9th annual fundraising gala event this weekend.
by Tuning in from Korea on Jan 14, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
is that to benefit all the scouts that have been put out of work?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm I don't know the answer to that, the article didn't go into that much detail, other
than mentioning the post-moneyball wave of unemployed scouts….
I saw the movie, and one of the things that got me to thinking is how fast the scouting ranks will be thinning out..
by Tuning in from Korea on Jan 14, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
i was so happy when he fired that director of scouting guy
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
and then he walked down the hall and asked that one younger guy
if he’d ever played baseball. The guy said he’d played t-ball and Billy promoted him to director of scouting.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
So, this is kind of neat:
Both Beyond the Boxscore and Minor League Ball have polls up on front page posts about who won the Montero/Pineda trade.
At BtB, the vote stands at 67 to 25 in favor of the Yankees, good for a 72% to 27% spread.
At Minor League Ball, the vote is 277 to 124 in favor of the Yankees, for a 69% to 30% spread (yes, I know neither of these add up to 100, it must automatically round the numbers to avoid troublesome decimals)
Minor League Ball has way more commenters and (I assume) readers than BtB, but the polls are really close by percentage. Since Minor League Ball has so many more votes, it can’t just be individual voters casting the same vote twice. Just thought it was neat that the tallies were so similar.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
At the time of the rumors and subsequent announcement,
I thought it was in the Yankees’ favor. Pineda is great, Campos is better than Noesi, and Montero has no position outside of the DH. Most of the internet seemed to be in agreement, so I was really surprised to read Keith Law’s insider article favoring the Mariners.
Still not a werewolf.
yeah. I think this one has leeway in both directions, which means it's pretty even.
It’s minor quibbling, and we won’t know anything for years (barring injury or collapse). It seems one of the most interesting trades in awhile.
Still not a werewolf.
i heard that the Mariners are gonna use Montero at Catcher
if he can stand there without embarassing himself too much, then this could be a win for the Ms
Bursting into song.
Get it? Do You?... cuz he's gay. - VolsnCards5
I think it would be embarrassing if he tries to play catcher while standing up.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 14, 2012 5:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
slo-pitch?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
props to both teams for taking big risks
but in this case it seems like a great trade. Montero gets 600 ABs this year which he wouldn’t have gotten for the Yanks and the Yanks have gotten much deeper in their rotation. I’m of the opinion that the Mariners will be the clear winner. Young arms are unpredictable. Everything I’ve read about Montero would indicate he has a chance to be huge and as he is ML-ready, its a pretty good bet by the Mariners.
Put Fielder in that lineup and they will have a pretty good team.
Just win
by The Duke on Jan 14, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
OT: NFL Playoffs Online
Anyone happen to know how/where to watch today’s playoff games on the internet? I think d-dee has posted a European site that has links. Thanks!
Dignan: On the run from Johnny Law... ain't no trip to Cleveland.
dunno, but the 49ers defense is quite clearly better than the steelers defense, despite the ratings
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
firstrowsports.tv
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i guess mike matheny and gabe have exchanged text messages...
The reason became more obvious Saturday when general manager John Mozeliak suggested that Greene will get “a strong opportunity” to be the starter at second base. Also in the mix will be Daniel Descalso and Skip Schumaker.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2012 4:20 PM EST reply actions
It was probably Cody using fan4's phone.
They’re the anti-US vice presidency model.
Still not a werewolf.
TG for 2B!
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
I have good feelings about Kolten Wong
probably not appearing this year, but it would not surprise me if he became a 2b anchor beginning in mid ’13.
Stability at second base has not been a Cardinal trademark for, what, 40 years or so? After Javier I can think of only Ted Sizemore (5 yrs) and F Vina (4 yrs).
Am I over-looking anyone?
yeah, I feel the franchise is due for a great 2B from within the organization
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
he may not have been super great
but he was stable. He and Ozzie were a helluva DP combo
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 14, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
the "oh man..."
was meant as “how could you forget him”
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently Mo said something today to the effect of
“We’re pretty young out there” when talking about the pen…..and Strauss has said for a while that they are in the market for a RH reliever.
What RH relievers are out there that would provide the veteran presence yet would not be upset to be in a set up role?
Just did a quick look myself and best "fit" would seem to be
Chad Qualls.
Overall numbers were nothing spectacular but still pretty tough on RH hitters.
that disappeared pretty quickly, thankfully
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
Wainwright, on a deal beyond 2013
But of course I want to finish my career here. everybody knows that. everybody that plays here wants to finish their career here. I can’t remember very many guys wanting to leave. This is St. Louis. People call it baseball heaven. Well, you know what? we kind of have it like that. we’re very blessed to have it in St. Louis. It would definitely be invited from my side of it.
Leach’s blog
Interesting as this is a departure from a few years ago, when he said he’d be interested in playing for the Braves at some point.
Still not a werewolf.
two WS wins during one's tenure on a team would make anyone stay in STL forever....
oh wait.
by molina mo problems on Jan 14, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
except for an extra 50 million dollars
I don’t think Wainwright’s likely to get that much more from another team.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 14, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
When is leach's "last day"
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 14, 2012 5:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Leach's post on Mozeliak's comments is full of useful and/or interesting info
Asked about the batting order, he said he expects the most likely combination is Carlos Beltran second, Matt Holliday third and Lance Berkman fourth.
Mo discusses Oswalt, Edmonds, and a Yadi extension, among other things.
Still not a werewolf.
and to nicely complement tom s.'s post
Mo mentioned that if they sign another player, it’ll likely be a pitcher.
Still not a werewolf.
interesting comments on Oswalt.
Sounds like he wants to sign him, but simply can’t get around the Westbrook thing yet.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
heh...
“…what would we do with our current five?”….translation: “What would we do with Westbrook?”
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
Is the injury that sidelined him last year permanent
I wish Edmonds would get back in the game and put in two more years. I think he is still an average to above average outfielder
Just win
it would be great to have him come to spring training
a la Larry Walker and (previously) Mike Matheny
"That's what I'm talking about! Strike him blind, Lord!" - Berk
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
permanent
“Although I feel that I can still play and contribute, the risk of permanent injury is too much for me to chance,” Edmonds said in a statement released by the club. “As much as I regret this announcement, I feel it is for the best.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6135663
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
turning into a pretty good game
that’s all I wanted, nfl game
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 6:14 PM EST reply actions
OT: Anyone know why the Rams get the first pick of the 2nd round
Instead of the Colts
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 14, 2012 6:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Colts did just as bad vs. an easier schedule.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
oh wait....read wrong
I have no idea
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
cuz the colts have peyton manning
I dunno
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
someone tweeted it...
something about the rams and colts alternating the 1st pick. Colts get the odd # rounds and the rams get the even # rounds
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Might have something to do with ending up in a tie.
"Let me tell you something kid; Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either because they're too scared, or they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. You shouldn't let it go by."
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die, follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
-Babe Ruth in the movie "Sandlot"
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 15, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
It's in every mock draft I've seen as well
Must be something from the new CBA
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 14, 2012 7:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
is the field in SF really wet? or do the niners need to
Start ordering uniform pants that don’t show ass sweat so much?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 14, 2012 7:21 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Nothing is as bad as the Rams white pants effect.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 14, 2012 7:22 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
...deep
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
How about 7?
On the single wing left.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
or 6
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Holy shit
how about them apples
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Or not...
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
wow
thats a lot of lead changes late in the game
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
They. Just. Won’t. End. The. Game.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
heh
I’ll take Game 6 over any NFL game, anyday.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
that game pissed me off so much
jumped on Saints +370 moneyline when it was 17-0. They scored 14 right after that I thought it was golden. I can’t catch a break lately.
Is it just me or does Sean Payton
look like Lee Harvey Oswald?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn't alive in 1963 and I know what Oswald looks like
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
uh
they had cameras in the 1860s. Booth was a nationally known actor before he shot Lincoln. There are quite a few photographs of him actually.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
He only flies into LaGuardia.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
OMG
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
stupid niners indeed.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
What am i missing
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 8:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
12 lead changes in the last 5 minutes of the Niners-Saints game.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Okay...just 4 in the last 4 minutes.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Unbelievable
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 8:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
cue epic hail mary from Brees
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Hope so
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 8:15 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Now im glad i missed it
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 8:23 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
And NE scores 2 minutes into their game...
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Just falling into tebows plan...
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 8:23 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Hilariously bad logic on facebook
Dude thinks that because the saints lost, smith is better than brees
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 8:29 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Is a Bears/Cubs fan making that assumption?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Hes a cubs fan
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 8:43 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Well both but im a bears fan and would never do that
Lots of Bears haters here, but also lots of Bears fans here as well
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2012 8:45 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
so Theriot>Castro because he has a ring?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Scalabrine>Lebron
"Let me tell you something kid; Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either because they're too scared, or they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. You shouldn't let it go by."
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die, follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
-Babe Ruth in the movie "Sandlot"
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 15, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
heh
by his logic, yes. but then he would say it doesn’t apply in that situation LOL!
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2012 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
god, fuck the 49'ers
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2012 8:22 PM EST reply actions
i wish both the Pats and Broncos could lose
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
when the rams aren't in it...
the football playoffs are just me rooting against the teams i hate. the rest is just whatever. and i hate a lot of the teams left.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Steeler fan
I’m the same way. If Tebow weren’t playing for the Broncos, I’d be rooting for them. The only team left in the AFC I don’t hate is the Texans, so a Texans vs 49ers/Packers Super Bowl is what I’m hoping for.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
i'd be okay with the ravens, texans, or to a lesser extent the giants.
screw the rest of the teams left.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
I thought that's what Tebow was for
Okay I’m done
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
now that I think about it, I kinda like the Niners/Packers matchup.
We’ve seen Saints/Packers and Niners/Giants already.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
don't sleep on the giants.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
I probably won't make it a point to watch niners/giants
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
blahhhh
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
dear fang,
uhhh… no thanks.
love,
god
> tebow
by cschepers on Jan 14, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I used to hate them when they were a dynasty
but not as much as the cowboys and later the patriots. so I don’t mind them winning as much. I was torn on broncs vs pats, but it’s funny that tebow lost.
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2012 2:30 AM EST up reply actions
Thanx, Ben Badler...
Live feed of Licey-Aguilas beisbol game featuring Cespedes
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Ok...the chat is in Spanish
But when NE just scored again I understood this:
Timbow time is over now
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
That bunt basehit was crazy.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 14, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Just checked Aguilas' roster.
Um…
08.- Miguel Batista 36
No way that’s…
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Well... Wiki sez-
During the offseason Batista pitches for the Aguilas Cibaeñas of the Dominican Winter League
That was under his Mariners entry.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 14, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
He has a beach house there
He enjoys lots of fishing and hunting, and writing melancholy novels about existential disillusionment and the inevitability of death.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Jan 14, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I believe I just saw a commenter say "because Fermin."
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
"ese swing esta lentoooooooooooo"
“That swing is sloooooooow”
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
"doble play"
“dobleeeeeeeeeeeeeeee”
It’s pretty fun to watch the comments on this.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
They love the smiley
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
...
Escogidistas, recuerden! que por separados solo somos Leones, pero juntos, juntos formamos a VOLTRON!!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Ha!
I’ve also noticed fans like to declare Licey and Aguilas to be lose campeones de 2012
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
They seem quite pleased right now.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 14, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
Also- Their cheerleaders are... cheerful.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 14, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
lolz
The Rams are also expected to add longtime Fisher friend Gregg Williams as defensive coordinator.
Dude just got carved up by Alex F. Smith…
Sign Roy O
Alex F Smith was pretty good this year
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 14, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
gregg williams has had success in the past.
this will be a good hire.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
agreed.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
post dispatch says we are interested in brian shottenheimer (im sure i spelled that wrong)
jets guy. not sure how i feel about that one.
Not sure here either wombat
25th best offense (by yards) in the league last year with a healthy cast of:
Mark Sanchez (way overrated)
Santonio Holmes (better receiver than any of the Rams before Lloyd came on)
Plaxico Burress (ditto)
Shonn Greene (good but not elite RB)
Dustin Keller (Great receiving TE, better than any Ram before Lloyd)
LaDanian Tomlinson (great backup RB at this point in his career, fabulous out of the backfield)
The secondary was putrid for the Saints in that game, often due to poor fundamentals
like shitty tackling. I’m not gonna blame poor tackling on a defensive coordinator.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
1 game doesn't override 30+ years of success
and their d was actually quite good until the last 4 mins… then completely collapsed. but the one game is irrelevant to how he will do as the rams dc
yeah, this makes sense
Bryan Anderson was the last to wear that number, I think. And 16 being 1 better than 15, because are the Cardinals are 1 better than all other orgs.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 14, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
Or maybe
#5? To help ease the pain?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
Sign Mark Prior!
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 14, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
pretty sure it's gonna get retired.
Like it should be.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
please no shootout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 14, 2012 10:49 PM EST reply actions
A Blues Shootout win!?
Egads! I’ll take it. Oshie has been a killer.
by openside on Jan 15, 2012 12:07 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
can't think of when I've seen a defense more
Suffocating than the pats’ on the broncos. Alabama’s performance against LSU was pretty amazing, but this game is full of plays for a loss.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 14, 2012 11:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
the broncos were just not prepared on either side of the ball tonight.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 14, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
UNC just got destroyed by Florida State in College BBall
90 to 57, Embarrassing for a #3
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 14, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Taking an Informal Prince Survey
Two parts to the survey.
Question A: Where does he sign?
Question B: How much money?
My vote is
(RANGERS, $18M – one year)
Nationals: 8 years/$205 million
Just nudging out Pujols’ AAV.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 15, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
i don't think he beats out pujols' AAV for that long.
i could see it over 4-5 years, but 8 is a lot to have an AAV that high.
"Alright, you caught me. I was wearing the clear heels"
-azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 15, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't underestimate the Nats though, Werth contract was pretty overblown.
"Let me tell you something kid; Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either because they're too scared, or they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. You shouldn't let it go by."
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die, follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
-Babe Ruth in the movie "Sandlot"
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 15, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
Ashamed to ask this
But anybody know of a good iOS football game? I’ve got all the other sports on lockdown but am itching a little bit to play handegg.
"Let me tell you something kid; Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either because they're too scared, or they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. You shouldn't let it go by."
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die, follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
-Babe Ruth in the movie "Sandlot"
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 15, 2012 12:53 AM EST reply actions
my guess would be no more than 2 1/2 months
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 15, 2012 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
that's about right
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2012 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
I noticed it for the first time a week ago, I think.
Was probably a while before then though.
"Let me tell you something kid; Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either because they're too scared, or they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. You shouldn't let it go by."
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die, follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
-Babe Ruth in the movie "Sandlot"
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 15, 2012 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
i think it did change shortly after the WS
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 15, 2012 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
That's what I figured. I just logged on, noticed it, and though, "Ha, that's neat."
"Let me tell you something kid; Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either because they're too scared, or they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. You shouldn't let it go by."
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die, follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
-Babe Ruth in the movie "Sandlot"
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 15, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
yeah it's been changed since a week or two after the big win
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2012 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
I know the feeling, I don't own it though so I've avoided complete addiction.
Good way to spend the long hot stove months, VEB and Skyrim.
"Let me tell you something kid; Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either because they're too scared, or they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. You shouldn't let it go by."
"Remember kid, there's heroes and there's legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die, follow your heart kid, and you'll never go wrong."
-Babe Ruth in the movie "Sandlot"
by cardinalswsbound on Jan 15, 2012 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
luckily I've been limiting myself quite a bit after the first couple weeks
I just don’t have enough time to sucked into that game. this means I’ll be playing it for like 2 years heh
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2012 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
Can't believe Codex got friendzone'd.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 15, 2012 2:30 AM EST reply actions
wow, just noticed how noticeable this photo makes Selig's age spots on his hands
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2012 1:35 PM EST reply actions
whoops wrong thread lol
stupid computer lag
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
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