Setting Expectations for the Core
by azruavatar on Jan 1, 2012 6:00 AM EST
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PrintIn 2005, the Cardinals were coming off back-to-back 100 win seasons but had seen two important players leave - one via free agency, one via retirement. We'll come back to that later. The replacement for those outfielders was, in part, Juan Encarnacion signed to a three year, $15 million deal in December of 2005. Encarnacion was coming off of what would ultimately be his career's best full season offensive performance. That high water mark was just 18 points of wOBA better than the league average but the signing was billed as a/the key offseason acquisition. Fans did not rejoice.
In 2006, Tony LaRussa infamously called Juan Encarnacion a "core guy". The remark was met with open derision about how important he was to the team. Still very early in the contract, the continued selling of Encarnacion by the front office and coaching staff in ways that were difficult for fans to believe tainted the relationship between those fans and the player.
The expectations were too high. Encarnacion was a role player and not a great one at that. He ended his career with a nearly league average offense record, averaged over 140 games a year from 1999-2006 and was a bit below average in the corner outfield position. He was certainly above replacement level and the Cardinals were not paying him an exorbitant salary but the "core" characterization was a poor one.
The invectives and distaste for that deal and that player which coalesced prior to his career ending injury were, on balance, outsized in relation to the factual evidence of his cost and production. While all of the vitriol cannot be attributed to a single factor, the inability of the front office to manage the fan's expectations undoubtedly played a role. There was a sense that the club was trying to obfuscate what was an obviously mediocre signing. That did not go over well.
It certainly didn't help that Encarnacion was being asked to replace two players who were generally beloved by fans. Reggie Sanders and Larry Walker were members of the best Cardinals' teams of the 2000s. Sanders' laidback attitude and casual demeanor were endearing. Larry Walker was a star in Colorado and a mid-season acquisition to augment an already excellent team. Both players were dealing with injuries at this stage in their careers but were able to be productive when they were on the field.
| PAs | HR | OBP | ISO | wOBA | WAR | |
| Walker 2004 | 178 | 11 | .393 | .280 | .411 | 1.4 |
| Sanders 2004 | 487 | 22 | .315 | .222 | .341 | 2.5 |
| Walker 2005 | 367 | 15 | .384 | .213 | .382 | 2.6 |
| Sanders 2005 | 329 | 21 | .340 | .275 | .384 | 2.0 |
| Encarnacion 2006 | 598 | 19 | .317 | .165 | .320 | 0.9 |
It's easy to forget just how awesome Larry Walker was. The man has a legitimate case for the hall of fame and even an infirm Larry Walker was a formidable bat in the lineup. (For all that he played just a season and a half for the Cardinals, I have an irrational appreciation for his time here.) Sanders had a very up and down career and that continued in St. Louis with a good season followed by a great, though injury shortened, season. Between the difference in personalities and the far less potent bat, Encarnacion was put in an unenviable situation.
What makes the Carlos Beltran signing so great is that our expectations should be more Larry Walker than Juan Encarnacion. Beltran will likely have some injury questions around him but he's a legitimately excellent player. When I ran a quick Marcel-style weighted average from the last three years, I came up with a .369 wOBA projection. If you run Dan Szymborski's ZiPS projection for Carlos Beltran through the wOBA formula you'll wind up with .364 (or thereabouts). Considering that the league average wOBA is much lower than it was in 2004/2005 (2011-.316, 2005-.326), Carlos Beltran's offensive relative to league average looks an awful lot like Larry Walker's 2005 relative to league average.
Carlos Beltran can't replace the production the team got from Albert Pujols in his prime. That's part of why the margins will be of increased importance in the post-Pujols era. Even if the Cardinals had signed Prince Fielder, it's unrealistic to expect 11 of the best years we've ever seen in a Cardinals uniform to be replicated. Carlos Beltran doesn't need to do that though. He's not Juan Encarnacion. He really can be a core player and he really has the capability to do that.
His once pristine defensive reputation has been scuffed by injuries and age. The player that averaged 146 games over 10 years is probably a thing of the past. But Carlos Beltran still has something to offer baseball and he still has something to offer the Cardinals. Go ahead. It's okay to say it.
Carlos Beltran, core player.
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Good historical post - with thanks. . . .
I suspect by the end of this 12 season – Year of the Dragon hereabouts – the Cards and the fans will realize that the team lost two first-ballot Hall of Fame members of the 11 Birds.
The replacements will be remembered with some exasperation as two well meaning guys with three knees and no experience.
Super New Year, VEB
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
Great first post of 2012
and happy new years VEB.
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
by mob16151 on Jan 1, 2012 6:44 AM EST via Android app reply actions
WOOOOOOO been up all night and still feel great!
And Larry Walker is also one of my favorite Cardinals, mainly due to, I think, that that year I played the crap out of MVP baseball and I would always put up redunkulous numbers with him, like 60 HR and 170 RBI. My wOBA was probably like .450 it was awesome.
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by cardinalswsbound on Jan 1, 2012 7:11 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
The year Juan Encarnacion was the core player
The Cards won their first WS ring since ’82.
It is what it is.
Cards fan in Middle East
Maybe an apple core
As in totally inedible.
by JWO on Jan 1, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it is what it is
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
lol
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
WHY THE FUCK AM I UP????
I fell asleep at 3 and just woke up on my own and can’t go back to sleep.
ALSO STLCARDSFAN4 WOOOOOHOOOO CAN FINALLY USE THIS HANDLE!!!
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
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Maybe that's why you are awake, leave the handle alone
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
heh
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 1, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
Nice points
Both about how unexplainable hype sours fans attitude towards certain players, and about the issue of expectations.
A question I have, why is it that the broadcasters (at least FOX and MLBTV) buy into this kind of FO hype? We heard them all ‘06 singing Encarnacion’s praises to the heavens. The same with Skip (disclaimer: I like him), and again with Theriot.
Cards fan in Middle East
it's because the broadcasters basically choose whoever they want that will go along with whatever narrative they want to present
which is most of the time quite in-step with what the front office wants to present. sadly, this is how journalistic standards are today across most businesses.
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well, isn't this just an inherent hazard of the business?
In order to broadcast material which is the property of the team and MLB, the channel (FSMW in our case) has to become a “partner” of the team through the licensing deal, or however it works in legal terms. So a priori the channel and the team are working together. FSMW cannot be a dispassionate observer, really. They’re not just covering the team as an outsider the way a news broadcast would report the weather, it is literally their job to promote the team. I know they could be more objective, but I don’t see how they could be entirely objective.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
true
but it would be more interesting if there was more coverage I guess is what I was trying to say
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it is kind of annoying how the audience usually has only one option for broadcasts of games
But I guess the nature of the system is integral to the financial part of the game at this point and it has little chance of ever changing.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
that's what we're here for, extra coverage!
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I understand completely where you are coming from.
It’s interesting to me that the Cardinals official website seems to have better, more objective reporting on the Cardinals than FSN Midwest. Matthew Leach is a real journalist. Al Hrabosky and Ricky Horton are not. That’s a big difference, but I don’t understand why they can’t find good analysts.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 1, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
this I tend to agree with
the tv broadcasts are just weird
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 2, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
I remember thinking 3/15 for Encarnacion?
who the f&*^ is encarnacion? I see I wasn’t alone by the link to VEB 05. 40 comments on a main post is kinda humorous.
I can honestly say that Beltran really hasn’t been over-hyped. His case has actually been presented in a reasonable manner. He’s a good, albeit older, player that has some health concerns but can still knock the shit out of the ball.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 1, 2012 9:51 AM EST reply actions
+1
Everyone is saying the Beltran signing was smart. And there’s a good reason. It is a good signing. He’s making substantial money, but its a short contract, and if he puts up his historical numbers, its actually a club-friendly deal. And even if he regresses some, both sides come out ok from this contract. Even if Carlos imploded, the Cardinals aren’t on the hook for some long-term insane amount of money.
I will say though, that the Cardinals are starting to look a little geriatric with their lineup. That wave of whippersnappers (Miller, Matias, Wong, Cox, Swaggerty) can’t get here soon enough.
by JWO on Jan 1, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
agreed on the whippersnappers
it would be nice to see a young, fairly cheap team that doesn’t look like it’s going to suck right out of the gate.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 1, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
This exactly
The real bonus is we have at least a modest wave of whipper snappers in the pipeline and some pretty good pitching and hitting (Craig) whipper snappers already broken through with some more to follow. And we have Scrabble who while not from our own pipeline is young and cost controlled with some real potential, and he’s a lefty who can handle RHBs.
I’m bullish for 2012, really looking forward to it getting started to see how it plays out. If everything works out: Waino and Carp back healthy, Jaime continues to mature/improve, Lohse has a year he’s capable of, bullpen is good versus atrocious, and Beltran, Berk, Freese, Craig, and Furcal are all healthy and productive and we have a ~100 win season that will go a long way to helping the fan base and city move on post Albetageddan
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
After years of a weak system
it’s nice to have some options starting in 2013 but since I’m a “just win walt jocketty guy”, I’d like to deal from depth to fill out 2B and add Oswalt to the mix. I’m very concerned that Carp flames out and/or Waino doesn’t come back in good form. With a team this good (and old) I’d like to see them really go for the gold for the next two years.
Just win
There's no money for Oswalt. And no money for an upgrade at 2B.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 1, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Hope the team needs neither - but it would be nice to have each. .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
Seems Mo is going with what he's got and if he needs to make changes based on DL and performance
he’ll still be able to do something in Jul. If things are going well he may not have to but he has options and flexibility
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Oh god I really hope we don't do this.
Make the playoffs is the goal. I don’t care if you win 90 or 110 (well actually…), just make the playoffs. Then it’s a crapshoot.
Baseball’s one of the only sports where I genuinely think going for broke and winning now is dumb because the playoffs will not reward you if you are the best team. If you are consistently in the playoffs, you increase the odds of winning the World Series.
Yes, the Cards won’t be an awesome ’04 team, but they look set up for 90 win seasons for a while.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 1, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I think the potential new Wild Card system will make it more important to win your division than in the previous system.
I think that the Cardinals are well-positioned to win the Central, even if they likely won’t win 110 games.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Well that is my philosophy
but I don’t think we have a demonstrable lead over the brew crew or the reds for the division. I think we need to do this to win the division. Getting the wild card won;t work anymore. I’m concenred this team won;t get into the playoffs with a key injury to Carp or Waino.
As to not having money, of course we have money, just a question of whether the front office wants to spend it or not.
Just win
Re: your comment about money, I think it's pretty off-base.
The Cards are to going to have a payroll of about 110 million, no more. Advocating for moves that lead to a 120-130 million payroll just because Bill DeWitt could conceivably come up with the money from somewhere is not reality. Carl Pohlad has money to but the Twins are not the Yankees. Ted Lerner could sign any player he wants, but the Nats don’t have a 150million payroll.
If we’re not going to pay attention to real life constraints, let’s forget about Oswalt and just trade Chris Duncan for Matt Cain.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 1, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Phillies raised by payroll by about 40 million last year, and they did it all with long term contracts
I’m sure we can do it for 1 year for an extra 10 million. DeWitt makes more money the further the Cardinals advance in the playoffs, so he has an incentive to raise payroll.
And yes, Dewitt can afford an extra 10 million for one year. He was prepared to go 10/220 for Pujols.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
If he bumps payroll by 10M for one season,
he’ll be accused of being cheap when it goes back down. Besides, the Pujols Dividend is mostly spent for 2012.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 1, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Who cares if he's accused of being cheap?
He’s always been accused of being cheap. It’s not going to effect anything.
I’m not talking about the Pujols dividend, I’m talking about DeWitt obviously having enough money to play around with payroll as he sees fit. 1 year 10 million is nothing for him.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
10 mill is nothing to Pohlad. 10 mill is nothing to Lerner.
10 mill is nothing to Mike Ilitch or John Malone or a bunch of others. John Malone could write a personal check for Jose Reyes and the Braves need a SS. But were the Braves players for Reyes? No, of course not.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 1, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Pujols packs probably made up for the $10 million - not sure that Oswalt, Prada packs would work as well. . .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
Prada packs
might really up female attentance…
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Heh, took me a sec
until I remembered Martin Prado’s first name, which gave me the accurate version of his last name…
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
It's not real-life constraint, it's a business decision
and I think this team has 2-3 years where it can conceivably win the World Series, so why not go for it. There aren’t many times you have such solid teams in all areas. I wouldn’t advocate blowing the budget every year but you got to takes your chances when the odds are in your favor. You only statistically can win once every 30 years, so I would go for it knowing the team can get very cheap very quickly and still be competitive if it doesn;t work out.
The Oakland team is real-life constrained. The Montreal Expos were constrained. Not the Cardinals.
Just win
Cards seem to have great runs every two decades and have had WS wins in one other odd decade, the 30's when they won 2 and later won the WS three decades in a row culminating in 6 by 1946
Haven’t we gone to the postseason like 9 times in the last 16 years? Matheny is starting with a head start compared to the team record when TLR came in. I think we are in a good position to continue the competitive baseball we’ve been used to for past 16 years
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Don't disagree
we’ve had our share of good luck but there are a lot of good teams these days and I’d like to max out our chance to do this 2 or 3 more times before the moment is gone.
Just win
concur of course, but the most important thing to me is keeping a viable ball club that
doesn’t try to act like the Yankees, Red Sox, or worse Cubs. I concur with the approach Mo seems to be taking, of doing they best they can within our means, and make smart business decisions, which includes nurturing the minor league system while making wise moves with available free agents. We’ll see how Furc and Beltran work out, but I’m an obviously optimistic follower.
Also, I’m very happy we haven’t gone in on the closer sweepstakes during the season, or in the postseason, was worried about the Bell chasing during the season.
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, its not a real life constraint
it’s a Bill DeWitt enforced constraint. Obviously, we can’t control what we does with payroll but then, we can’t really control any of the decisions this team makes. So why not advocate it if you feel like it?
because it's like unrealistic trade scenarios
it’s nice to advocate, but just isn’t going to happen.
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
that's such bullcrap
it could very well happen.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
idk
I think a $110M payroll is more than we’ve ever had, and I don’t think BDW is likely to go even higher.
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Go ahead then and advocate for shit that's never gonna happen, I guess.
I think we should trade for Bryce Harper.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 1, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
but it's a pointless thing to talk about
why not advocate a $150MM payroll? dewitt could afford another $40MM
Because $40 million more wouldn't get us any farther than
another $10million would — which is the first round of the playoffs.
Just win
You mean we could have kept Pujols?
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
seems like this is the answer - if the cards didn't
Want to find an extra $30-$40m over the next ten years, they’re not expanding payroll by another $10-15m in one season.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 1, 2012 7:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
er
a) it’s not a crapshoot. better teams win the WS more often, it’s just very easy for an inferior team to win.
b) we’re the favorites to make the playoffs in our division, but the Reds and the Brewers are right behind us. additional wins are still very valuable to our playoff prospects.
are you saying that signing Oswlat is “going for broke”? Its an extra 8-12 million in payroll, and it won’t effect the team beyond 2012. signing a FA to a 1 year deal is the opposite of going for broke.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
Pay attention please to the person I'm replying to.
it’s nice to have some options starting in 2013 but since I’m a "just win walt jocketty guy", I’d like to deal from depth to fill out 2B and add Oswalt to the mix.
He wants to trade prospects, not just get Oswalt. This is different then what you want.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 2, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Happy New Year, folks
I, for one, am pretty damned excited abouth the direction this team is going in.
Pujols leaving sucks, but time will soon tell us that this move was clearly addition by subtraction to the organization. Presently, the Cardinals are among the most healthy and robust clubs in MLB. We (still) have a top-tier offense, a great rotation, solid bullpen and plenty of depth. And though I’m happy that TLR went out on top, it was no secret to anyone that he had lost a step or two. With Matheny at the helm, we have the best of both worlds – a guy steeped in Cardinal tradition and “the Cardinal way” of doing things, plus a much-needed infusion of youth. In John Mozeliak, we probably have THE best GM in all of baseball. Luhnow leaving also sucks, but I’m sure the club will adapt.
This won’t be 2007 all over again. Here’s to a great 2012.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
I applaud your optimism
I don’t disagree, but I’ll feel a lot better when I see:
1) Carp’s arm still attached
2) Waino’s elbow actually working
3) BBTorty&Freese all walking and running without breaking.
Otherwise, it could very well be 2007 over again.
I also suspect that Albert has at least 2 or 3 more impressive seasons for us to watch with some measure of envy.
Cards fan in Middle East
Big difference between 2012 and 2007
The free agent signings this time were a huge level above Kip Wells and Adam Kennedy.
There was zero minor league depth in 2007 (Andy Cavazos was an important part of the bullpen for a while).
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jan 1, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Shouldn't you have to earn core status?
I don’t have anything against saying Beltran is “core” (whatever that really means). But it seems like he ought to… uhm… do something, before we start bestowing titles. Yes, he is collecting 10% of our payroll. Yes, he has some historically good numbers. But he hasn’t made one nifty hit, stolen one base, or made one fantastic catch while wearing the birds on the bat.
To me, you’re CORE if you’ve put your dues in and contributed to the team. By that logic, Freese could be considered core now. I’m not so sure about Beltran.
That's just like, your opinion, man
But in all seriousness I do appreciate the point of view. There is some real variation in people’s understanding of these terms. A similar one is “Ace starting pitcher”. Is it the guy who has the most talent? The one with the best combo of innings and results?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
So you're saying Beltran hasn't had his "moment"?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 1, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Throwing Napoli out at Home!
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
/Dammit was working on the Holliday thread and thought you were talking about him
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
hahahahahaha
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 1, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
wainocurveball.gif
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 1, 2012 11:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
....
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 1, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
that's a damn great moment
he put the cardinals in the freakin world series!
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
btw
if you watch the non Fox Trax gif of this K (can’t find it right now), you see Molina tapping his glove on the dirt as Wainwright comes set. Does anyone here think that Waino hung this curve, and was supposed to bounce it?
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Hm, never noticed that
But I remember there’s also that Waino quote about throwing “the best curveball of my life” which I would assume to be for a strike.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
It's a great quote.
But it is possible that in trying to throw the “best curveball of his life” he might have tried putting the most spin possible on it, as a result losing control of it’s location. Just a thought.
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Yeah, that also makes sense
Interesting to think about
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
here it is
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
by BVHeck on Jan 1, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't think Yadi wanted him to bounce it
to me, he just wanted Waino to “keep it down”
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
ya that could be it too
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Yadi was distracting the better/misleading where it going to finish
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
makes sense on 0-2.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 1, 2012 7:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Was looking at your link to the Molina pick-offs at first base
and went to view the two Kinsler pick-offs from the World Series. In this one, take a look at what EJax does after the pitch. I doubt he knew what was going on until close to when Furcal tagged Kinsler out.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
haha
a pleasant surprise when he looked up, for sure
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
He's core in the sense that's he going to be a main factor in how good we do.
His performance likely dictates whether we go to the playoffs or not.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
by stlcardsfan4 on Jan 1, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Ryan Theriot.
Team Captain.
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
heh
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 2, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Suspect that he has done something - as in cashing paychecks. . . . Point well taken about his on-field performance.. . . .
Keep thinking there was SOME reason that offensively feeble Giants did not resign him.
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
I suppose there are two ways to categorize someone as a core player
1. Identify with the team or somehow emblematic — Carp, Waino, Molina, perhaps Freese after this postseason and subsequent roadshow. This takes years as well as some memorable contributions
2. Best performers — Carp, Waino, Berk, Molina. This is the one where Beltran fits in quite nicely very quickly.
Poor Matt Holliday.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 1, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hm. Needs definition #3
Players who have had sufficient “moments”.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Jan 1, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He's in the elite hitter club
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Matt Holliday is too busy counting his money to be poor.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 1, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I see what you did there
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 1, 2012 11:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Classic, Twin. My compliments. Have a Great Year of the Dragon. . .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
I like how Tom Timmermann (whoever that is)
simply declares that Holliday is “more prone to hot and cold spells than the other star in last year’s lineup,” but doesn’t actually offer any evidence that this is the case.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
who needs evidence when you can have blind speculation.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 1, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I actually wonder if there is any evidence that non-injury related "streakiness" exists at all
I’m not saying players don’t have hot spurts and slumps. And I am willing to believe (in fact, I assume) that sometimes people just do better than other times. Nobody can go about their job with exactly the same amount of effort or effectiveness at all times. But “streakiness” as well as “clutch” seem too much like convenient labels that people can slap onto a player as a kind of “begging the question” argument tactic.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
To be fair,
Edmonds would go thru several ebbs in a season where he would either not touch the ball for a couple weeks at a time and then just tear the cover off the ball for a couple weeks at a time. Whether that is streakiness or not, I have no idea.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 1, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
See, that's kind of what I"m saying
I know that players have periods that can be pointed to and defined as “hot streaks” and “slumps”. But I doubt that particular players are anywhere close to as prone to this phenomenon as a lot of people think. No baseball player works like a metronome. Albert Pujols used to on a year-by-year basis, and that alone is rare for a player.
I think lots of explanations are plausible for why we think certain players are more streaky than others. One of my guesses is that certain players’ hitting profile involves things which are more “noticeably streaky” such as strikeouts. Another theory of mine is that we just notice streaks more in players who are good that we watch more closely, or that get more playing time (usually they get more playing time if they are better players as well).
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
The other problem about describing a player as "streaky" is defining just what a streak is.
In how many games must a player hit well or poorly before a streak has started? How poorly or how well must a player hit for a cold or hot streak to have taken place? Does OBP matter? SLG?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah
I think this kind of argument is literally “begging the question”, i.e. it’s a conclusion that depends on a premise that actually assumes the conclusion itself.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I agree.
Timmerman clearly has not done any research to back his assertion. I don’t know how he would, either. It would require him thinking critically and questioning himself.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 1, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Haha
So I assume that sort of intellectual rigor would be difficult for Timmermann (I literally do not know who that is by the way, I wasn’t being facetious above… the name maybe sounds a bit familiar).
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I think he's a St. Louis area sports talk radio host.
Living outside St. Louis I’m not that familiar with the local talk radio folks. (Not that I listen to talk radio at all.) But they say things like “Holliday is streaky” and “Holliday is injury prone” without doing any work to see if it’s true.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 1, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Holliday should have called in to that Stltoday round-table
“I actually take a lot of pride in not being streaky, and I think when you consider the following stats…”
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
then strauss could taunt him for being a literal egghead.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 1, 2012 4:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The same was common for Ray Lankford
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 1, 2012 12:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Branch Rickey said
“It is not the honor that you take with you, but the heritage you leave behind.”
As the original builder of what has become Cardinal Nation, I wonder what his take would be on AP’s heritage as a Cardinal. Remember he traded Rogers Hornsby to the Cubs after the Cards won the ’26 series.
by setitan on Jan 1, 2012 10:49 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Interesting question
especially for someone so instrumental in allowing blacks and hispanics into the league. Though Rickey had deep ethical convictions, he was also a very shrewd businessman. I’m sure he would be more than understanding about the Albert situation. He probably wouldn’t have cared much for Deidre, though.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 1, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know about Rickey but I look at the 2004 pennant and two World Series championship trophies and say Pujols left a nice heritage.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You know what I find funny
No one even talks about Pujols 3 HR game in the World Series. Any other WS and that would probably be the most impressive thing the entire WS.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 1, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
well, he did get only what, 1, 2, hits in all other games combined?
he really wasn’t a force in the series
TLR is gone, long live the king
Yes, if you ever watch any top plays of postseason countdowns, lesser things have definitely made the lists
at high ranking due to less going on in individual postseasons. His game 3 performance will make make the lists and be remembered, But the Freese Triple in the 9th, Berk hit in the 10th, and Freese walk off HR collectively or individually top that performance I believe. Bad luck for Pujols. He has more competition, Carp’s game 5 of the NLCS, Craig’s off the bench HR displays, etc.
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I want everyone to stop and reread this comment by Musially
It great reminder of just how amazing this postseason was, at that’s not even touching on the insanity that we were in the postseason
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 1, 2012 12:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's a great*
And that’s*
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 1, 2012 12:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
thanks Buddha. This postseason was amazing but it may be awhile before we can truly wrap our heads around everything that happened with perspective anyway
we know it was amazing and know baseball history, but I think it needs time and distance to have context and be truly valued in the whole of baseball lore
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I think a lot of it is that two of the home runs came after the game was a blow out.
If the last home run, say, won the game, it would’ve gotten much more play.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 1, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Heck, *all* of Albert's RBIs+runs scored weren't even the difference in the game!
What a crazy game. What a crazy Series. What a crazy postseason.
Cards fan in Middle East
Also what gets talked about even less...
the craziness that was the NLCS. Doesn’t get talked about at all.
Like that game where the Brewers and Cardinals combined for a bazillion home runs?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Exactly.
All I remember is that the Cards won it in 6, the starting pitching for both teams got hammered, and Game 6 was some sort of home run derby for the first few innings.
Anything else from that series, I’d have to go look up.
Pujols broke the best mode paradigm in the NLCS:
.478 BA, .556 OBP, .913 SLG, 1.469 OPS, 2 HR, 4 2B, 9 RBI, 11 H, 5 R
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 1, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
They must have overclocked him or something.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I don't really know what a beast mode paradigm would be but I like the idea of it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 1, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Fielder has beast mode, Pujols has best mode.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
*beast mode
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 1, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I was in an alcoholic haze by then too
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 2, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
The NLCS in general doesn't get talked about at all.
Everyone talks about the classic duel in the NLDS between Carpenter and Halladay. I absolutely looooooooooooooooove the fact that we beat the Brewers in the playoffs after all the Nyjer bullshit. It was absolutely perfect. I remember saying shortly after Game 6 that I wouldn’t even care if the Cardinals lost the W.S. because it was sooooo glorious to beat the Brewers.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 1, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
It was a very good CS, but paled in comparison
to this year’s DS and WS as well as past Cards’ CS wins. As completely crazysauce as the end of the season and the other 2 series were, “very good” barely registers.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 1, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I felt the same way going in, I could have dealt with losing to the very fine Phillies team, but would have
hated losing to the beastie boyz and all that TPlush nonsense
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Happy New Year, VEB
from the DFW airport. Traveling home to VA.
Happy with the Beltran signing, not so much with the Skip and K-Mac signings.
Looking forward to see what Wainwright/ DD/ TG can do.
Fast healing, Allen Craig.
Remember when
We traded for Larry Bigbe and Aaron Miles to replace Reggie Sanders and Mark Grudzielanek
Yeah lose hopefully
Rooting for Indy to beat Jacksonville
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 1, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
this with any Luck
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Lets go Bills!!!!!!!!!!!
Wooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Juan Encarnacion was the most amazing interview ever
With his thundering god-like voice
/sarcasm
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jan 1, 2012 11:36 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but I really wanted to show a Strauss fail.
What was biggest story of year for Cardinals: The September rally; the World Series; Tony retiring; Albert leaving?
I would rank those as the top three STL sports stories of 2011.
Math Fail.
(For what it’s worth, I’d put World championship above just about anything yet more people said Albert leaving was a top story. I guess “top story” goes to Albert, but winning it all is a bigger deal.
President of the Tyler Greene fanclub - Wikipedia Proof, Tumblr Page, and finally Baseball-reference
Twitter
Strauss was told there would be no math
Dammit Jim. He’s a sports writer, not a mathematician
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
The Skip Schumaker extension was by far the biggest story of the year
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
Happy New Years VEB
I totally agree, Azru, that the main reason for the angst was due to what the management said that led to fan (my own) expectations about free agent signings. They said that we were going to make a splash. Daryl Hannah, was a splash. Juan E was no splash.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
I absolutely loved the post on the Encarnacion signing and the comments.
With the problematic search function, how did you ever find it?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Going to Google and using site:vivaelbirdos.com as a search criteria
will give you a fighting chance to find stuff here.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 1, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
That's what I do nowadays.
I agree with your fighting chance description of this search method.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jan 1, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Drill down with dates too.
I usually try to find the date of the event and then search for posts a week after and a week before. Narrows the results dramatically.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Thanks for the post
If every time I see Beltran in a Cardinal uniform I think of Juan E, then a smile will come to my face.
¡Juarlos Beltranación!
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Jan 1, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this reminds me of that time period
I was always a little confused by the way they presented Encarnacion. obfuscate is right because they acted like he was an offensive force when in reality he was barely capable with the bat, when considering he was a corner outfielder in mlb
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 1:02 PM EST reply actions
Who are they playing?
It doesn’t change the answer, I am just curious.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Rams fans are going to be doing back flips in three hours...
next year we get all the injured receivers back, Saffold, Bradford, plus six or seven top 100 picks AND massive cap space to bring in free agents…
The Rams are headed towards a 2013-2016 dynasty with multiple Lombardi trophies.
Sign Roy O
this is the type of stuff that fuels Joe Strauss
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Holy shit
one of the Rams crossed that last line at the end of the field. While holding the ball and everything.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 1, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
If Beltran wOBA's ~.360 in 450+ AB
Berk is even 90% of last year
Holliday is Holliday
Craig gets 400+ AB
and Furc OBPs at .350+ in 500+ AB
We are all gonna need an endless supply of towels.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 1, 2012 1:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Also, my New Year's Resolution this year is for Jay and Freese to either sustain high BABIP or to hit well despite BABIP regression
Can you make resolutions for other people? I am pretty sure it’s OK.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I think that's acceptable
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 1, 2012 1:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'd be surprised if we get .350 wOBA from Furcal
but that would be nice! even if not, this looks to be a great offense
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
.350 on base is what I was saying
Which I realize would put him around a .35
WOBA
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 1, 2012 1:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
oh whoops I meant to type OBP
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
.340 from Furcal would be a more realistic optimistic expectancy
he could well be around .330 and that wouldn’t be too low for him. this is why I am not thrilled with him at leadoff. what he does have that a lot of other shortstops don’t have is to make the game 1-0 very quickly at the beginning. this is a good thing. plus he may be able to steal a few bases if he stays healthy, he’s not as slow as a lot of people on this slow team. but he is getting old though. if he can really up his obp, it will be a big boost.
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
although
I just noticed his career average obp is .348, so .350 is not that outlandish
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
This was
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 1, 2012 1:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
My thinking
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 1, 2012 1:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
in theory if you're projecting a .350 OBP, you're projecting a .350 wOBA, too
you would expect them to be close in practice
Yea that's what I was saying
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 1, 2012 1:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So VEB was smart for not wanting Juan Encarnacion
but the guy they were hoping for, Matt Lawton, wasn’t any better FWIW. 2006 ended up being his last year of pro-ball and although he had a solid bat up until the end, he was an absolute butcher in the outfield and erased almost all his value on defense. i know defensive metrics weren’t much back then but Lawton hadn’t been an average ballplayer since 2001.
sometimes there are just not any good choices
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Lots of people pimping Larry Bigbie for LF too
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 1, 2012 1:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I figured Lofton would have been better
but he was pretty “meh” in 2006. Got on base but didn’t seem to do much else.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
We should have signed Carlos Beltran.
/historyfail
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
He was already a Met by then
signed to a 7-year deal, and had just finished the first year of that K.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
Uh, no, you're thinking of 2006, not 2005, which was his first year as a Met.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Texans special reamer just tackled Titans punt returner
Thing is, tacker had lost his helmet earlier in the play…and he led with his head….football players are all crazies
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 1, 2012 1:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions
most of your special teams guys are of the honey badger variety
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 1, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Fake field goal, Niners?
The whole 2011 season hasn’t already been humiliating enough for Rams fans?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
all I know is that if I were the defensive coordinator
On a team about to finish with the worst record in the NFL and likely to purge the coaching staff, I would not want that to happen in the last game.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 1, 2012 3:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
gar, special teams coach. whatever.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 1, 2012 3:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
and then that punt return . . . .
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 1, 2012 3:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
AHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Interception! Kind of disappointed they didn’t give up the safety. Fewer points, but the rarity would have given it more panache.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 1, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
promptly followed by an interception.
This game is only watchable as having the fascination of a train wreck, certainly not as good football.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 1, 2012 3:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Most futile on-side kick recovery ever?
Oh well, this is slightly more interesting than just kicking it away, I guess.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
Well, they made it far more interesting than I thought they would.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 1, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry for the Rams stuff all up in your VEB,
It’ll be over soon.
Bernie Miklasz @miklasz
That was the Rams’ 9th TD pass of the season. They now trail Drew Brees by only 37 TD passes.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 1, 2012 3:59 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I get the feeling that during the 9th inning of game 6, someone in the St. Louis area must have received a very strange phone call
In the bottom of the ninth inning, I alerted the bullpen. And I told our coaches and some of the veteran players. I said, ‘If this doesn’t work, we need to step out of the dugout and thank our fans.’ I actually called the bullpen and had that conversation
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Jan 1, 2012 4:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
thanks Pepper
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
". . . and then lance lynn started warming up."
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 1, 2012 7:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Did the Colts win?
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
since im not in Stl
is it a spags thing? i mean how close would they be with a decent coach?
because TLR
maybe 4 wins?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 1, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
they'll do that too
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 1, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Not at all close
This team just got decimated by injuries on both sides of the ball. I don’t think Spags was the problem.
Kenny williams is cleaning cupboard
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/blue-jays-acquire-jason-frasor.html
still dont get the danks deal..
because TLR
because kenny williams is the jim hendry of the AL?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 1, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
what a city.
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
So, [assuming] now that the Cardinals are done this offseason, I'm pretty satisfied with the way things turned out
Good offseason for Mo, except for the Schumaker thing
Heh, weird.
I can post comments to SBN St. Louis via the Android app, but they don’t appear on the site.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
Hmm...
Is this showing up on the site?
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 1:02 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
nope
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
There could be an
alternate VEB made up of just Android app comments.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 1:08 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
It'd be some sort of paradox world
veb planet X or something..
> tebow
by cschepers on Jan 2, 2012 1:13 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
VEB Ruby?
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Guys, at the end of every day, you need to ask yourself
Did I do it for Torty?
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Jan 1, 2012 9:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
No that if funny Notorious
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 2, 2012 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
welp, that was fast (and expected)
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 1, 2012 9:40 PM EST reply actions
I think it's unfortunate
perfect storm resulted in this year being a complete nightmare. Is there anything really that much better out there?
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
Are you asking if there is anything better than Spags and Devaney?
Really? Their entire tenure has been a complete failure.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 1, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
I just don't see coaching options that would make this team better
I don’t like Jeff Fisher and I hate Gruden.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
The team that Devaney and Spags put together is precisely the problem.
That’s why they deserved to go. No coach could’ve won with this shit-ass team they put together. I know, injuries, blah blah…the guys that didn’t get injured weren’t very good either other than a couple guys.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 1, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Rob Ryan!
I would like Grizzly Adams Rex Ryan to run the team
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Jan 1, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
2011
Kind of a bland year for me. I will always remember it for two things and one of them is the unbelievable run the Cardinals made culminating in the World Series title. Even after rewatching the entire series this week, I still can’t believe they won it.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 1, 2012 11:31 PM EST reply actions
a personal relationship
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jan 2, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
anyone here?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I is.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
Are you working tomorrow, or off?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
office is closed, but i am actually in cali for a conference that starts tomorrow
bastards
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Bastard coated bastards
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 2:12 AM EST up reply actions
I actually had no idea that that was a scrubs reference, all this time.
Boo.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
I always thought it was a BCB reference/burn
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
you don't like Scrubs?
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 2, 2012 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
The first coupla seasons were very funny, I thought.
It got worse as time went on. Think I stopped watching it regularly sometime in season 3.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
oh, yes, it was a fine show
but I thought that was a VEB-original phrase.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
be happy!
it was almost 80 degrees today in LA, tomorrow, too… Random WTF glorious day, usually they are only on Wednesdays.
Hope you aren’t up north, it’s 60-something in SF.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
i'm in LA.
looks like it will be nice all week, which is awesome
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Have you seen Pujols?
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 2, 2012 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
well okay, i am sure
it’s because I’m watching A Separation and it’s making me cry and so I had to pause it.
What is that, movie?
Just saw a Purple Haze carrot variety in a seed mag my wife got this past week, made me think of you. Wasn’t aware of the cannabis variety until today, either.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
Are you referring to the Jimi Hendrix song, then?
Or to anything in particular?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, pretty much, i guess
truthfully, it doesn’t have any particular meaning to me anymore. I just had to think of a handle to play Warcraft III under and that’s what I came up with. I’ve been using it ever since.
I guess you could say you're referring to the line from Dickens'
Great Expectations: “There was the red sun, on the low level of the shore, in a purple haze, fast deepening into black…”
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 2:20 AM EST up reply actions
It's been a loooong time since I thought of that guy, no wait I thought of him yesterday around 1 am
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 2, 2012 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
I was thinking about switching it up with something Cardinal themed when i made this account
but then I figured out that if I took a picture of a cardinal and inverted the colors, I get this trippy purple haze type picture. so i kept the name.
so, um, Furcal on twitter
RAFAEL_FURCAL Rafael Furcal
Since U all ask, I have 2 say pro baseball IS a business.. It is somewhat about the money to everyone. However, when u get past a certain…
RAFAEL_FURCAL Rafael Furcal
amount, it gets crazy.. Making 3mil a year would be enough for ANYONE. #Greed isn’t in ALL of us..
Gauntlet laid.
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
by slu on Jan 2, 2012 1:59 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
so this is a real twitter account eh
i am surprised his agent is letting this go on
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
God, I love twitter
I just hope I never have a job where I have to worry about what someone might say on it.
i KNEW we overpaid!
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
this is probably a silly question on this forum, but
has anyone read tina fey’s book? i am reading a preview on google books and it seems hilarious
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
My daughter got it for her b-day, if I recall
not sure she ever finished it. I think my wife started reading it, and I recall hearing some snickers. Don’t know if she finished it, either…and I’m not about to wake her up to ask.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
my reading is getting too damn serious lately
and I absolutely adore Tina Fey… maybe I could give it a shot? Once I finish with all this Dostoevsky and Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
whoa
that’s hard core.
though, as i get older i find myself wanting to read books that i would have hated to read in college. for instance, i had to read the crying of lot 49 in college and i hated it and didn’t “get it.” i’d love to try to read that again now.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I have it.
Had to stop reading it in bed because my laughter was waking Josh.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 2:22 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Of course, you may never see this comment.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 2:24 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Well, I'm seeing it.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 2, 2012 2:26 AM EST up reply actions
i see it
why wouldn’t i see it? thanks for the comment; i kind of thought based on the preview i am reading, that’s its something directed toward women a bit.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Someone said the Android app
comments weren’t showing up properly. Disregard my tweet then. Definitely geared towards women.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 2:28 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
if you refresh the page, they appear
there is something goofy with the way the mobile app and the standard browser versions interact.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jan 2, 2012 5:12 AM EST up reply actions
No, they aren't showing up at SBN St. Louis.
Everything is jim dandy here.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Jan 2, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
I should say that anyone who likes
Tina Fey will like the book.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 2:29 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
i love her
and i’m finding it easy to imagine her voice telling the story as i’m reading it. which suggests that she actually wrote it
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
She definitely wrote it.
It’s certainly in her voice like you say.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 2:34 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
it's a great book.
I’m debating buying mindy kaling’s book, too.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 2, 2012 3:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Me too!
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 3:06 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
or, the "read it for free one chapter at a time in barnes and noble"
Option Is tempting too.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 2, 2012 3:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Android app is a tad buggy,
but it’ll do the trick. I can’t remember the last time I opened my computer. But I’m constantly on my phone. Yay to wasting time on VEB again!
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 2:32 AM EST via Android app reply actions
i can't believe you are awake!
is tiny giving you trouble?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
She's teething, but otherwise fine.
I am exhausted yet wired right now. Getting over being sick. I don’t know why I’m awake.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 2:39 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
oof. that's tough. i know the feeling.
i should probably be sleeping, too. but instead i’m on veb and watching some terrible lindsay lohan movie on tbs.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I'm going to be so screwed tomorrow.
I think maybe my late afternoon nap is keeping me up.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 2:45 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
getting older sucks like that
i can’t even have a cup of green tea after 3pm if i want to go to bed at a normal hour.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Haha, yep!
And now Tiny is tossing and turning so I don’t want to fall asleep. Very little is worse than 7 minutes of sleep before being woken by a fussy baby.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 2:50 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
ugh. my two best friends both have newborns, going through the same things.
i’m told that “hang in there” is a terrible thing to say.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Heh.
I’ve been pretty lucky. For instance, she slept 9 hours last night. She’s been doing that with regularity since she was a few weeks old. I don’t mind getting up with her every now and then.
Tonight she woke herself trying to roll to the other side but with the bottom arm basically straight behind her. Probably hurt a bit! I changed her and gave her Tylenol and she’s sleeping on my shoulder already. She’s easy for the most part.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 3:00 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
9 hours! that is awesome for you.
now that she’s asleep, its your turn!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
There's an art to it.
I have to wait until she’s deep asleep. She’s still moving some. Once I can pick up her arm & drop it without her moving, then I can put her back down. You learn these things the hard way.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Jan 2, 2012 3:04 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
if anyone feels like some brilliant but heavy social commentary on Iran
A Separation is an extremely well-written movie with some great acting.
Me, I think I need to stop filling my brain with sad things, especially in the depths of the off season. I feel like wandering off into the snow and collapsing into it.
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