september playing time
by tom s. on Sep 17, 2011 1:16 PM EDT
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Printwell, sports fans, we have had the questions we've been asking all september (and longer) answered.
q: how long do we have to watch corey patterson and ryan theriot before adron chambers and tyler greene get a chance to play?
a: an extra inning game with the bench pretty well spent, shortly after corey patterson drops a ball to allow the tying run.
consider the following: in september (prior to last night), adron chambers had 1 PA, tyler greene 0, tony cruz 0, shane robinson 5, corey patterson 7, ryan theriot 10, gerald laird 10, nick punto 10, allen craig 13, daniel descalso 25, skip schumaker 40.
rafael furcal leads the september cards with 57 PAs.
now, the furcal thing is obvious - they're auditioning him for a return in 2012, which is probably a good thing, given the paucity of options on the free agent market and a relative lack of obvious trading partners for shortstops.
still, why are we playing laird over his younger, cheaper doppelganger tony cruz? if cruz is the option for next year, why has he seen nary an appearance in september? i understand they've been working yadi hard because of the race, but they still found time for laird.
why are we giving PAs to baseball nonentities ryan theriot and skip schumaker, when we have other infield options?
why are we quasi-platooning david freese with daniel descalso at third while matt carpenter catches up on watching "Treme" on DVD?
why does mitch boggs have 2 appearances to 6 for arthur rhodes and 8 for kyle mcclellan? certainly not because either of them is a better reliever than mitch.
despite one of tony la russa's stranger months of managing decisions, even for him, the cardinals are more or less back in the race for the wild card at 3.5 games back, and less, the central division, at 5.5 games back.
now, as much as i like to pile on corey patterson, i will say his error last night looked like one a lot of guys wouldn't reach. it was so close to the line that i had to watch the replay to make sure it wouldn't have been a foul ball if he hadn't touched it. patterson is still, generally, a pretty rangy guy. he just fails to make up for his enormous offensive shortcomings with his glove.
on the other hand, i don't think a struggling player does himself any help with backhanded humility like this:
"A lot of guys may not get to that ball. But, for me, I've got to catch that ball," said Patterson, who had the ball pop from the palm of his glove. "I just dropped it. I may have gotten to it a little quicker than I thought."
taking the time to compliment yourself by saying, even truthfully, that a lot of players may not get to the ball, when you DROPPED the ball, is probably bad form. gilding your own fielding error lily by saying that your problem may be that you're TOO FAST is just ridiculous. also, factually inaccurate. he didn't over-run the ball. it hit in his glove. the only problem was that he couldn't actually hold on to it.
corey, save the self-complimentary rhetoric for when you actually catch the ball.
* * *
our september success has been accompanied, not surprisingly, by a sudden jump in our pitching performance. all season, our pitching has been the primary element holding our team back. of our five starters, only carpenter has an FIP or ERA over 3.25 for the month. we are third in the majors for starter FIP in september. that's not a sustainable trend, but we'll take our flukish pitching performances where we find them.
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Corey Patterson...
was once the #2 prospect in baseball – the Mike Trout of his day. His career has been a huge letdown. I’m sure living with this disappointment has required him to come up with all kinds of excuses for himself.
so, deplete the bench, blow the save, go extras until you're forced
to let greene bat, got it
and then collect compliments from fsnmw broadcasters that you have faith in your younger callups, it’s obvious, right?
also, pujols needs 7 more rbis, over/under on the 100?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Sep 17, 2011 1:30 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think he's in this thing to win it. Seems locked in
I’ll take the over
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 1 Start- 9 IP, 4 H, 3 K, 0 BB, 0 ER, 14:7 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Sep 17, 2011 1:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
over
100 RBI’s is probably more likely than .300 BA
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
101!
why the f is corey patterson on this team?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no issue with
Skip, and K-Mac. I don’t see much reason to fuss over Laird vs. Cruz. Theriot, Patterson, Robinson, and Rhodes playing while there are still available options is pretty indefensible. Also, I’d say K-Mac is probably slightly better than Boggs right now.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 1:33 PM EDT reply actions
I can't wait until Skip and KMac are gone from this team.
Skip is awful. The only things saving his WAR from being even worse than it is are his defense in the outfield (sss alert, he’s still a negative defender for his career in the OF) and his inflated BABIP.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 17, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I won't mind Skip and K-Mac being gone.
But there isn’t much reason for Descalso, Greene, or Theriot to be playing in front of him right now. He had a really good July and August before struggling again in September. K-Mac is a nice arm to have in the pen….he just won’t be worth a few million bucks or a multi-year deal. I’ve never been a real big fan of his, but he seems to get the job done at an acceptable rate.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Skip is an inferior 2B to Descalso, Theriot, and Greene, IMO.
So I see no reason to ever play him there. His defense is certainly worse than those three. And whether he has a “good” month or not is completely dependent on his BABIP and whether a few more grounders find the hole between 1b and 2b.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 17, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
he's been a better hitter in the Majors than all 3 of those guys
he’s not completely incompetant at 2B either. Ultimately, theres not much difference between Theriot, Descalso, or Skip and since Skip has been hitting better over the season he gets the PT. I don’t think its realistic to just think Tony is going to annoint Tyler Greene the starting 2B based on a strong half season at AAA.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a difference between the question of whether TLR benching Schumaker is realistic
and whether TLR benching Schumaker is the correct decision in terms of helping the Cardinals win ballgames.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I also suspect
that Dirty Dan would be “exposed” if he played every day. Pitchers would figure him out, to some degree, and he’s not so good a hitter that he can be valuable if his production declines even slightly. Better to stick in the utility role; he’s well suited for it.
A Skippy/TG platoon at 2B would not displease me. Please don’t bring Theriot into this conversation. Anything that increases the likelihood of him being with the team next year is a Bad Thing, IMO.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Sep 17, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
uh, daniel descalso is at least as good a hitter as skip schumaker and almost certainly a better defender.
i’m not sure how people reach the conclusion that theriot is unacceptable, but skip is okay. both are weak hitters and among the worst defenders in the majors.
"the less I think of it, the more certain I am." beckett
as Ms Browning said, "let me count the ways"
why Theriot must go (he should have been released Sept 1)
Re the 2012 infield, (sans 1b) I’m hoping for Freese, Furcal and the versatile trio of Greene, Punto and Danny D, all three of whom can play anywhere.
As for Skip, he’d be an ok 5th OF, and is a good ‘clubhouse’ presence but meh, that is fairly unimportant and easily replacable.
Season slash lines
Skippy: .290/.338/.355
Dirty Dan: .266/.336/.355
The “similarity” is deceptive, because it’s rooted almost entirely in Descalso’s much greater propensity for drawing walks — a very large fraction of which are of the “intentional unintentional” variety when he was batting 8th, right in front of the pitcher. He has drawn 21 walks batting 8th, 11 in all other lineup holes put together. Skippy, by contrast, has only benefited from that bizarre “protection” about 50 times all year, and has walked at a 50% higher rate when batting 8th than in his more usual slots.
Agree about defense — Dirty Dan is just better. I’m still not convinced their slash lines would be so similar if he was playing every day.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Sep 17, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
i think this is all very speculative.
you’re not considering his walk numbers in the context of how many PAs he has – he has 230 of his 363 PAs batting 8th. that gives him a 9.1% walk rate in the 8th spot, and an 8.3% walk rate elsewhere. i don’t see anything substantial about that in such a tiny sample size.
"the less I think of it, the more certain I am." beckett
It adds up.
And it’s easily verifiable that hitting low in the order helps one’s walk rate. Leadoff and #2 hitters in the NL this year have averaged 0.074 BB per PA. #7 and #8 hitters have averaged 0.080 BB per PA. That isn’t a trivial difference.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Sep 17, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
except that skip doesn't generally bat 1st or 2nd.
he has 69 PAs in those two spots, and 151 batting 7th or 8th, as well as 94 batting sixth.
so, the argument doesn’t make sense in this context.
descalso has 26 PA’s batting 1st or 2nd.
descalso has a really good batting eye. he was voted as having the best batting eye in the minor league system last year (albeit robbing matt carpenter). it’s not a mere function of where he hits.
"the less I think of it, the more certain I am." beckett
To say nothing of the speculative claim as to the pitchers' motivations in issuing the walks.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Agreed.
Theriot has a .313wOBAr and Skip has a .316 wOBAr. Skip’s UZR/150 at 2B this year is -8.9 and is -12 for his career at 2B. Theriot’s UZR/150 at 2B this year is 14.3 and for his career it is 5.8.
No, I don’t want either of these players back next year. But, IMO, it’s quite clear that Theriot is a better 2B than Schu. And I don’t see any reason to start Schu against RHP because Descalso is better than Schu as well.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 17, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
The whole "playing for next year" thing
Never materialized because the Cards somehow found themselves in a pennant race (sort of). So there’s no use wondering why Cruz isn’t playing over Laird, or Greene over Furcal, or whoever over whoever. They aren’t playing because TLr is in “win now” mode. Now, we can disagree that he is making the best decisions to win now (like playing Patterson), but that’s where TLR’s mind is at.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 17, 2011 1:44 PM EDT reply actions
ok, but where has that approach been the rest of the season?
as he continued to choose batista, franklin, etc when he had better options?
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
I don't understand your comment.
He’s following the same approach he’s always used.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 17, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
TLR's player usage is based on his subjective opinion over what players give the club the "best chance to win."
TLR clearly believed that Batista was a better option in games than other relievers just as he now clearly believes that Skip Schumaker is the best option at second base.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
NO
Actually, there is NFW Tony could have believed in those guys in the pen – unless the Shingles made him blind and deaf. He is just SFArrogant that he figures he can always make up those games later – WRONG! He is so out of touch with reality and so in love with his stupid rules like, “if we can win 2 of 3 we will be ok”, that he is blind to the obvious.
How many getaway games did he giveaway this season? For that matter how many period.
If we had half of the Bautista/Franklin screwups as wins wouldn’t we be at First in the Division? Of course his arrogance knows no boundaries, he lost lots of other games by ignoring evidence that was OBVIOUS and in his face.
"Gibson drilled the Rookie for having the impertinence to hit a long foul ball off of him"
I agree
the team is 8-1 in their last 9 games without starting Tyler Greene. This is not something to be upset about.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah...i forgot about what a stud he's been
when he does play.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
this is a terrible argument.
the brewers are winning the division starting yuni betancourt. does that mean that we should try to acquire him in the offseason? or that brewers fans shouldn’t get mad that he’s starting games?
"the less I think of it, the more certain I am." beckett
You're right
Craig Counsell or Josh Wilson should probably be starting instead
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm not sure if this is a sarcastic response or not.
but it fails to respond to the larger point, which is a team’s winning streak (especially over 10 games) doesn’t say anything about whether individual player usage is proper or not.
"the less I think of it, the more certain I am." beckett
by tom s. on Sep 17, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But it does say
That a fan who puts more of his attention on “individual player usage” rather than team results can’t see the forest for the sapling. Should Brewers fans be happier if they bench Betancourt for a better shortstop and then lose ten in a row?
i think you're confusing correlation and causation
they are having the season they’re having in spite of betancourt, not due to him
Not at all
Perfectly clear that Betancourt is, in fact, terrible. I’m just a little amazed at the idea that Brewers fans should be angry right now. Everything has come together like magic for them. They’re supposed to be mad about Betancourt?
i think they should be dissatisfied with the decision to play betancourt
assuming there is someone available who is better suited to play the position. i don’t agree that they should be happy with what they have if their roster could be utilized in a way that makes the team even better
is there in fact another SS in Milwaukee better than Betancourt?
just curious.
A testy Pujols when asked by @JoeStrauss if he thinks this injury will affect his future "that’s a stupid question, Joe," then walks off.
Craig Counsell and Josh Wilson
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
a quick skim of all three players' FG pages
does not lead me to think that either of those guys are actually better than YB.
Counsell is 41—nuff said. I don’t know anything about Wilson, but it looks like YB is a marginally better hitter and Wilson is a better fielder.
Paraphrasing PJ above, Milwaukee is having the season they’re having in spite of their shortstops, not because of them….
A testy Pujols when asked by @JoeStrauss if he thinks this injury will affect his future "that’s a stupid question, Joe," then walks off.
uh yea...
i know they are both terrible as well – without bothering to look them up.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
hardly an either/or. one could easily be ecstatic about
How the brewers are playing and dissatisfied about yuni betancourt.
I liked the 2006 cardinals and enjoyed their run to the WS. I don’t have to pretend jeff weaver is a great pitcher, though.
"the less I think of it, the more certain I am." beckett
by tom s. on Sep 17, 2011 6:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
i'm not sure taking out opposing players is entirely fair
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Suppose you've seen Bobs Burgers?
the episode where his kid is in the mascot race as a hamburger is excellent. He learns to win by pushing the other mascots down.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
well, no, no they shouldn't get mad
Seeing as how they’re storming to a division championship and their best season in 29 years. I’d question the mental health of any Brewer fan who was spewing bile about Betancourt right now.
Remember that time when RB met that attractive EMT after he stuck his dick in a toaster?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Sep 17, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i'm not criticizing the furcal usage. in fact, i went out of the way to say it made sense.
but playing theriot over greene is not really a win-now or a win-ever choice.
"the less I think of it, the more certain I am." beckett
True, but we could have said the same thing at any point during the season.
It’s never good idea to play Theriot at SS, Patterson anywhere, Skip at 2B, pitch Batista, etc., etc. These critiques were just as appropriate in May or whenever as they a today.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 17, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, except that now having extra guys up is now cost-free due to roster expansion.
also, even if we are in win-now mode, there’s no reason skip schumaker should have 4 times as many PAs as a now-healthy punto.
"the less I think of it, the more certain I am." beckett
this i can get on board with.
Sometimes I forget he’s even on the team
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You'll get no argument from me on playing different players than we have been.
I think Skip Schumaker is the 6th best 2B on the team right now after Punto, Greene, Desclaso, Theriot, and even Craig ( and I’m not counting others who “could” play 2b, like Furcal)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 17, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
tlr lucked out last night
and it aggravates the crap out of me when anyone calls it insightful management
i also fault jmo that mcarp is not on the bench
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
Agreed...
Add on annoyance that JMo allows Corey Patterson on the roster… He just shouldn’t be there. Do Shane Robinson and Adron Chambers not provide enough in "defensive replacement’ outfielders? It’s just too easy for Tony to figure out a way to get them in.
I think TLR was right when he (practically) said teams (Cardinals) should not expand rosters too such a degree in September (so he does not make so many stupid decisions because they are available to him).
I just don't get why we've kept Patterson around all this time.
Even Tony has got to see that his “hitting” is so terrible there’s just no reason to keep him. The Blue Jays got rid of the crappy players we traded them, why aren’t we allowed to do the same thing?
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Well, yes and no.
It was bad luck to go into extra innings at all. Corey Patterson is not a good baseball player, but he got to that fly ball just fine, and 9 times out of ten, he catches it and the game ends 2-1. Playing to win in 9 innings, which is what TLR was doing, is always risky. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. The same can be said of leaving guys on the bench and presuming it’s going to extras.
Sometimes TLR’s overmanaging is clearly indefensible. It wasn’t last night, just a matter of having his hand forced by a turn of events that normally wouldn’t have happened.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Sep 17, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You could also say that he got screwed by his defensive replacement
dropping a ball that hit the palm of his glove. The Cards essentially won that game twice.
the mafia is dead. long live the mafia.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I disagree.
Our starter FIP might not remain at whatever number for September it currently is, but it’s definitely sustainable that we can remain third in the majors. Yes, our overall starter core may not be third-best over a full season, but this late in the season, for a month of starts, I’m betting that it is sustainable. Some team has to be third in FIP for starters for a month, why not us?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Sep 17, 2011 1:52 PM EDT reply actions
Adam Dunn has as many Ks this year as he does BA points
161
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Sep 17, 2011 2:01 PM EDT reply actions
Mark Reynolds says hello...
2010: 211 K’s, .198 BA
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
the dunn booing in us cellular field was so loud
as was the sarcastic applause when he got a hit..
what contract did the white sox sign him to?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Sep 17, 2011 2:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i believe it was 4 years 56 million
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
ouch!
The Nats are my 2nd team (behind Cards obviously). I was a little upset they didn’t find a way to sign Dunn after last year. Now I’m thrilled they didn’t (although the LaRoshse signing was not so great either – at least this year).
youneverknow
oh nice...it escalates too.
2011: 12M
2012: 14M
2013: 15M
2014: 15M
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
haha...
the white sox owe at least 103 million to Jake Peavy, Adam Dunn, and Alex Rios
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
oh man...
I actually thought all those acquisitions were reasonable moves… the Peavy trade was questionable.
the peavy trade was fine
except that they traded for him when he was injured. he was an ace before that
I think the Rios thing was probably the worst
How the hell did Toronto manage to get out of both the Wells and Rios deals?
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Acquiring Rios seemed like a decent high risk/high reward move...
6/60 for a potential all star center fielder isn’t that much.
yep they are in a predicament that's for sure
why the f is corey patterson on this team?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Was just looking at defensive stats
Guess who has the lowest UZR/150 from 2009-2011?
That’s right, Skip Schumaker.
Sigh.
Yeah I was wrong, I was looking at NL only
And these are the only guys worse by regular old UZR accumulated:
- Betancourt
- Braun
- Wright
- Uggla
And these are the only guys worse by UZR/150:
- Dye
- Quentin
- Wells, V.
- Betancourt
and how are we supposed to be surprised by this
considering we have an OF playing 2B?
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
twitter
Interestingly, Baseball Prospectus doesn't have him as a bad defensive 2B this year.
Quite close to average, just a tick below. I don’t think their methods are as good as UZR any more, but I’m not really sure I trust any of the metrics perfectly.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Sep 17, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that isolated for 2B, or for all his defense on the year?
His total UZR for the year in 2011 is still not good, but it’s propped up somewhat by his time in the outfield. His UZR at second base this year is still really bad.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
The figure that I saw was isolated for 2B.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Sep 17, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Does UZR include success rate on pivots for DPs?
That’s one area where I think Skippy has definitely improved. His footwork is becoming more like that of a real second baseman.
Again, I don’t see a perfect defensive metric out there.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Sep 17, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
pinch hitter
why the f is corey patterson on this team?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
hallelujah?
"the less I think of it, the more certain I am." beckett
by tom s. on Sep 17, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
66 & sunny in my small michigan town
although it definitely feels like fall is in the air.
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
twitter
Funny thing is
If he’d just put the ball in his pocket, he’d have got credit for an unassisted double play — not something you see every day for an outfielder.
The baserunning out wasn’t recorded because he got the guy at second, it was because Cano (running from 2B) passed Teixeira on 3rd. Spectacular baserunning boner.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Sep 17, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
fire burning in the outfield....
hell of a long way to go to get to that ball.
FWIW I think the baserunning blunder is the 3rd base coach’s fault. On the replay you can see him making absolutely no signal at all until it’s too late.
A testy Pujols when asked by @JoeStrauss if he thinks this injury will affect his future "that’s a stupid question, Joe," then walks off.
Curtis Granderson has 40 HR's
what does he think this is, 1998?
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 3:16 PM EDT reply actions
having watched granderson in detroit
i knew he was something special, but he seems to have taken things to another level in NY. underrated, IMO
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
twitter
dude's amazing
A testy Pujols when asked by @JoeStrauss if he thinks this injury will affect his future "that’s a stupid question, Joe," then walks off.
Why does TLR keep taking out a good player at the end of the game in close games
and putting in Corey Patterson? this has got to stop.
why the f is corey patterson on this team?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2011 3:54 PM EDT reply actions
injury reports
frozen patties, pneumonia, now a blender?
is there some kind of reckless ennui which overcomes major league players in September?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
where are on the gidp record?
we totally got this, right?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Sep 17, 2011 4:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
BirdLand article
from Sept 15 had this information on the GIDP record
The 1958 Cardinals set and still hold the National League record for total double plays hit into. They had 166 GDPs total.
This year’s Cardinals are taking a run — excuse the pun — at that total. In Wednesday’s win at Pittsburgh, the Cardinals slowed their pace by not hitting into a single DP. This season, the Cardinals have 159 GDPs in 149 games. That puts them on pace for a 173 double plays hit into this season, easily eclipsing the ‘58 club’s NL record and taking a stab toward the major-league record of 174 set by the 1990 Boston Red Sox club.
yep, the media hates st. louis
It'd be fun to root against them!
Is Jon Jay the next Willie McGee? Is Arthur Rhodes the next Arthur Rhodes?
by a fink on Sep 17, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
always looking on the bright side
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
But wouldn't that just be the ultimate Cubs schadenfreude?
To have them try to steal the Cards’ secret sauce, yet still fall on their ass?
#FireTLR
by The Continental on Sep 17, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
While it would be a joy to see LaRussa overmanage the Cubs,
I can’t bear the thought of Pujols in a Cubs uniform. Even if he leaves, I’d like to be able to still root for him to break records and I couldn’t do that if he was in Chitown.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Line up
Furcal, ss; Jay, cf; Pujols, 1b; Berkman, lf; Freese, 3b; Craig, rf; Molina, c; Schumaker, 2b; Westbrook, rhp.
Nothing surprising here. Surprising.
#FireTLR
by The Continental on Sep 17, 2011 4:18 PM EDT reply actions
freakin schu's got second base on lockdown
why the f is corey patterson on this team?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt you'd be saying that
If Theriot was the guy playing everyday and Skip was the guy riding the bench.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
no
they aren’t about the same hitters. Maybe for their career, but Skip has been far better than Theriot at the plate for about the last 3 months. Skip has a .366 OBP since the break compared to Theriot’s .291
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
arbitrary end points
skip’s BABIP is also .071 points higher than theriot’s
i think it was pointed out above that they’re essentially the same hitter when adjusting for batted ball luck
the fact remains that theriot
hasn’t done crap with the bat in several months, while skip has. You can call it arbitrary starting and ending points, but it doesn’t change the fact that Theriot has been awful and Skip has been somewhat serviceable. Theriot should be last in line for playing time amongst the middle infielders and he should only be used in front of Shane Robinson and Corey Patterson as a pinch hitter.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
no, i don't agree
that playing time should be allocated based on 100 PA samples. theriot’s .253 BABIP is a result of bad luck and skip’s .362 is a result of good luck. going forward, it’s overwhelmingly likely that they will be similar hitters and theriot will be a better defender
if i had my pick, i’d pick the player i think is most likely to be most productive. that’s theriot (actually, descalso or greene), but as stated, not a big diffrerence
I'm with PJ. I think Theriot's a better defender, and about the same at the plate.
Theriot was pretty adequate with the bat for the first 2/3rds of the time he started for the Cards, and didn’t have a super high BABIP or anything to indicate it wasn’t real.
He is very hard to strikeout, and can give competent at-bats against any kind of pitcher. He has absolutely no power or speed, but if he’s an average or better than average defender at 2nd (which fangraphs thinks he is), he’s not a horrible player… just not a good one. I prefer Punto, and probably Descalso next year, but I’ll take Theriot over Skip, not that it’s a huge difference.
Is Jon Jay the next Willie McGee? Is Arthur Rhodes the next Arthur Rhodes?
142 PAs
3 DL stints will do that to you.
I like Punto over both Riot & Skip, but it’s worth noting that his 2011 offensive #s are all SSS. At least he’s got that positional flexibility thing that TLR loves so much.
A testy Pujols when asked by @JoeStrauss if he thinks this injury will affect his future "that’s a stupid question, Joe," then walks off.
Greene or Punto need to be starting at 2nd
why the f is corey patterson on this team?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah it's a tossup really
why the f is corey patterson on this team?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
the grit eventually hardens into a wall
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Your 2012 Cardinals starting second baseman.
No question.
#FireTLR
by The Continental on Sep 17, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
argh
why the f is corey patterson on this team?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
This should be the lineup for the next 12 games
wap out Schu with Descalso or Punto if you prefer
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd prefer Descalso, Greene, or ideally Punto
why the f is corey patterson on this team?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
So are the careers of
Brandon Webb, Anthony Reyes, Ben Sheets, Mark Prior, and Justin Duchscherer officially over?
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 4:40 PM EDT reply actions
sign ben sheets!
oh wait…
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Ive never been so interested in atlanta baseball as i am right now
and sunday blackout.
yeah, well, that's just like, my opinion, man
lol...i thought about 'im from the future'
but really, i was confused as to the day. that means i have another day for the weekend i had forgotten about. kinda like finding 20 bucks in a jacket you havent worn in a year.
yeah, well, that's just like, my opinion, man
Go pond scum!!!
They had a few on and once again we got done in by our arch nemesis the double play. How they got Reyes in a DP is beyond me. Must of been a liner.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Good Dickey is good, indeed.
Is Jon Jay the next Willie McGee? Is Arthur Rhodes the next Arthur Rhodes?
The Mets ballpark really sucks the power out of hitters.
They should move the walls in a bit or field the 1982 Cards.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
The 1982 Cardinals roster would
steal more bases than the 2011 roster. and I’m pretty sure most of them are in their late 50’s/early 60’s
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 17, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Q: Is there any reason why FOX thinks the entire Midwest wants to watch a game none of us care about?
There are three games going on now. One involves a MIdwestern team. One involves a team that is involved in a playoff with a Midwestern team. The third has no relation at all to anyone living east of the Allegheny.
Goddamn you, Rupert!
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
Er, that should be "WEST" of the Allegheny
Either way. Effin’ Murdoch.
"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy
I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.
Mets have a runner on second, one out for the most exciting player in baseball, circa 2008!
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 17, 2011 5:23 PM EDT reply actions
That was a damned exciting walk.
I need a cigarette.
#FireTLR
by The Continental on Sep 17, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Reyes walks!
C’mon Angel, do something Angelic!
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 17, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Dammit!
Bases loaded, one run in. Even if Dickey gets out of this they get Kimbrel in the 9th….
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 17, 2011 6:21 PM EDT reply actions
uuuugh, you good for nothing mets
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
And there it is - no gaining on Atlanta today....
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 17, 2011 6:33 PM EDT reply actions
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