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Down the Stretch with Fernando Salas

Do you ever wonder what kind of face you are making when you are, let's say deep in thought? Or when you are focusing intently on something? This is Fernando Salas's pitching face. There are about 40 pictures of Salas to choose from and this face can be found in about 39 of them.

If you blinked, you missed the Pittsburgh Pirates pretty epic slide over the last few weeks. Since July 21st, their last off day, the Pirates have lost 13 of 16 games including a 9 game losing streak.  They've put themselves 9 games back of first place joining the Reds on the second tier of NL Central teams and probably beyond reach of the division.

More lamentable for their fanbase is that their winning percentage now stands at .482 and they're 4 games below .500. Anyone who was popping corks around the All Star break may want put the champagne back on ice.

The Cardinals meanwhile are missing some opportunities to make up their three game deficit to the Brewers. Dropping 2 of 3 to the lowly Mets, 2 of 4 to the cellar dwelling Astros and losing 2 of 3 to the Brewers all after the All Star break does not a championship team make.  The club is on a nice three game win streak courtesy of the Marlins before an offday tomorrow. (Aside: Does it seem like we've had an inordinate number of offdays this year? It does to me.)

On Tuesday, the Brewers will come to Busch Stadium for a three game set followed by the Rockies. It would be an opportune time for the Birds to sweep the Brewers but you can probably get by with a 4-2 showing over those six games. With just 47 games left after today, the Cardinals can't afford to fall further back than their current three games in the quest for the NL Central Championship. They need to stand up as tall as their dwarfy legs can hold them and be the tallest midget in this crowd.

Star-divide

Fernando Salas picked up his 21st save in 24 opportunities closing out a 2-1 game started by Chris Carpenter. The Cardinals bullpen was an unmitigated disaster to start the year as Ryan Franklin finally lost his pinpoint control, which, admittedly, happened about 4 years later than I expected it too.  Miguel Batista's inexplicable usage in high leverage situations -- he had a 1.41 leverage index when entering games (1.00 is generally considered a neutral-ish leverage) -- turned a depth reliever into a veteran debacle for no good reason.  The Cardinals tried variations of Jason Motte and Mitchell Boggs before the latter was banished to Memphis to become a starter. How did that turn out by the way?

From the ashes of failed closers, rose Salas who has shown exceptional command and poise on the mound in the closer's role. Sabermetrics and common sense has taught us that the "closer" is something of a fallacy. When the heart of the opposing lineup appears in the 8th inning that is likely to be the most critical portion of relief innings for the pen. Designating, and strictly adhering to, a traditional closer's role can be misguided.

Fortunately for the Cardinals, the trio of Mitchell Boggs, Jason Motte and Lance Lynn have all proven to be more than capable of handling high-leverage situations.  A pair of former starters and a former catcher makes for an unlikely backbone to the bullpen but it seems fitting given that the closer was never expected to be a closer.  Salas was often overshadowed by his harder throwing counterparts in the minor leauges.  Control has slowed Francisco Samuel's path to the big leagues and Eduardo Sanchez's shoulder remains a tenuous thing.

The arrival of Salas a major league relief pitcher isn't surprising. The quality of his stuff and the control has been extremely impressive though. You won't find him on any former top 10 lists and I'll admit that I didn't see him as more than a middle reliever either.  Salas throws three pitches according to ball classification data: fastball, slider & changeup. I've garnered a healthy respect for change-ups in recent weeks and Salas is a good example of why.

His ability to throw all three of those pitches for strikes is important but his changeup has allowed him to neutralize left handed hitters so that there's little discernible platoon split.  In some ways, Salas remains an unusual closer for the Cardinals with the rather tepid fastball velocity (91-92) and below-average groundball percentage. On a rating of his pure stuff even now, it would probably be confirmation bias to say he has closer's stuff. Fernando Salas simply pitches with accuracy and a good mix of his pitches to keep hitters off balance.

If the Cardinals are going to make a run down the stretch, they'll need Salas to maintain his stranglehold on the closer's role. Tony LaRussa is unlikely to end the parade of 1000 relievers even if he has a closer but the Cardinals need a solid back of the pen. They aren't in a position where they can allow games to slip away like they did in the first few months. Fernando Salas, unexpected closer though he may be, is critical to their chance at a Central championship.

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heh

There was a fist fight among the wedding party at the reception I was at last night. I am completely unapologetic for any writing flubs I’ve got today.

Beware: Velociraptors may be present.

by azruavatar on Aug 7, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thats how we roll in my Khalasar

The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun

by mob16151 on Aug 7, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ferd's pitching-face is one of the least silly-puttylike I've ever seen

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 7, 2011 9:30 AM EDT reply actions  

I vote we call 'em crazy white kids Bottelynn

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 7, 2011 9:32 AM EDT reply actions  

Mike Stanton hits a baseball real hard

and we have been lucky to keep him in check this series. Garcia has not seemed exactly right lately to me lately and I’ve been a little anxious when he pitches.
Hope he can keep Stanton from launching one in a close game today. Don’t want to face Milwaukee four games out Tuesday.

by ridgesee on Aug 7, 2011 9:32 AM EDT reply actions  

last but not least

sadly, Rox are not currently carrying one Joe Mather. He continues with his bombardier ways. That team’s hosting Memphis right now.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 7, 2011 9:38 AM EDT reply actions  

The Cardinals are four games out of the wild card.

I don’t know why, but I was surprised by that.

Repeal The LaRussa Tax.

by Michael_68_1999 on Aug 7, 2011 9:39 AM EDT reply actions  

yeah I thought it was a larger gap.
W.Card	W	L	STRK	PCT	GB
ATL	65 	49 	L1	.570	-
ARI	61 	52 	L3	.540	3.5
STL	61 	53 	W3	.535	4.0
NYM	56 	56 	W1	.500	8.0
FLA	55 	58 	L3	.487	9.5 

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 7, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

man, the West is crazy.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Aug 7, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

it's like OK Corral

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Aug 7, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

on pace to win 106 games...

they are looking like a juggernaut this year

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Aug 7, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I feel it's safe to say they are a juggernaut this year.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d say so. I start wondering some times, is it time to create the “super” baseball division yet and move the Phillies, Braves, Yankees, Red Sox, and Tampa Bay there yet?

If the Phillies make the series this year (assuming we can’t get our act together, I hope they beat the Yankees. (Well, actually, I hope someone dumps the Yankees before then. Can’t stand the Yankees.)

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on Aug 7, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Peter Gammons

tweeted this earlier this morning:

It is remarkable that it is August and the only team in the AL Central and NL West with a positive run differential is Arizona

And yet it’s the NL Central that gets ragged on…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

wait that doesnt make sense. arizona is in the AL central, too?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club

In addition, IHeartFreesie

by IHeartBoog on Aug 7, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh wait i get it

no one in the AL central has a positive run differential?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club

In addition, IHeartFreesie

by IHeartBoog on Aug 7, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also

San Francisco has a slightly negative run differential, but they’re 10 games over .500.
Cincinnati has the fourth best run differential in the NL (expected w-l of 60-53) but they are 5 games under .500.

Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.

by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cueto's so weird this year

He is striking out fewer people, walking ever so slightly more, and pitching a curveball apparently. At the same time he’s giving up way fewer home runs, getting more ground balls, and has a BABIP-against around .230 instead of his normal .290 or so. It’s like he’s either getting really lucky or Jocketty blackmailed Dave Duncan into working with him on the side.

Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.

by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I concur and Dunc part is funny. One reason we need to keep TLR is...

DD’s magic pitcher dust. Also I was referring to Cueto bitching about lack of run support from Reds earlier in year, while they were leading NL in run support.

11 in '11

Carp on Brendan

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Aug 7, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

We need to keep TLR

just until Carp is ready to retire and fill Dunc’s shoes.

"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx

by monkeysareblue on Aug 7, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

McClellan sent him a peripheral smoke-and-mirrors spell book.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, old habits die hard

We’re a better division than those two, but we still don’t have any top flight teams, so we look mediocre. We have two or three good teams though.

Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.

by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I miss the days of

2003-2005(6) when I could talk to AL East fans and make a compelling argument we had the stronger division.

"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx

by monkeysareblue on Aug 7, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll admit, I’ve called them the NL Sucktral and have said the same about the AL Central as well.

Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.

by CapsFan75 on Aug 7, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah I wouldn't write off the wild card chances yet

or even getting ahead of the brewcrew… if we can beat up on the pirates, that will make up some ground since we play them a lot still.

does anyone know how the strength of schedules of stl and milwaukee stack up? I know both have relatively easy schedules.

low in the zone

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

This sounds an awful lot like Ryan Franklin over the past few years.
On a rating of his pure stuff even now, it would probably be confirmation bias to say he has closer’s stuff…simply pitches with accuracy and a good mix of his pitches to keep hitters off balance.

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Aug 7, 2011 9:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Salas misses too many bats to be like Franklin

I think his comp is Joakim Soria.

THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fan Club
Twitter|Google+|PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!

by CodyG on Aug 7, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fastball Velocity

Soria: 91.2
Salas:

Fangraphs pitch value on change-up

Soria: 2.1
Salas: 4.2

Fangraphs value on slider

Soria: 2.9
Salas: 2.4

Fangraphs value on curveball

Soria: 1.3
Salas: N/A

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've been thinking about it

What IS stuff? Is it pure fastball velocity/offspeed movement? Is it the ability to generate whiffs?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Aug 7, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it's movement and velocity.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd say Jackson has better raw stuff but that the 89-MPHer better uses his lesser stuff.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

How does one better use their stuff?

Command? Pitch sequencing?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Aug 7, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes and yes.

Command, in particular.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

J.P. Howell is the third example

and he does it with a 86 MPH FB.

THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fan Club
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!

by CodyG on Aug 7, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

All relievers, no?

I can’t tell what rui is aiming at with his question but I’d say that there are other factors than pure velocity/movement that affect pitcher strikeout rates. Types of pitches, handedness, delivery deception, pitch sequencing. It seems like the guys with slow fastball rates and high K rates are clearly the outliers so I’d be disinclined to try and develop a universal theory rather than look at the huge correlation between velocity and strikeouts.

Beware: Velociraptors may be present.

by azruavatar on Aug 7, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd agree

If either is really high then it’s considered good stuff, at least in my view. I think a pitcher also has to have more than one pitch that would classify as a “good stuff” pitch. It is a fairly nebulous concept, now that I think about it…

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 7, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a scout term and a lot of those are nebulous.

That being said, a lot of descriptors in baseball are nebulous. I think this has to do with various levels of development and the various expectations for different roles.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Curious; is there a term for the ability to generate a lot of whiffs without great stuff?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Aug 7, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does such a pitcher exist?

You have to have good stuff to generate swings-and-misses, in my opinion. Even if a guy has an 89-MPH fastball, he isn’t going to last very long unless it has good movement or is accompanied by good if not great offspeed offerings.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess that comes back to definitions again, right?

I mean, Brandon Webb never threw harder than 88-9 or so, but had turbo movement and posted pretty good K-numbers when he was still healthy. I’d say he had pretty good stuff due to the movement he generated. Others would argue his stuff wasn’t good b/c none of it was hard. So, like was mentioned a moment ago, it’s kind of a nebulous concept when you think about it.

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 7, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

what qualifies as "a lot of whiffs"

and where the hell are league averages on FG?

by mattyfrommo on Aug 7, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

so the league avg K/9 for this year is 7.03?

do we have a consensus on what is a lot of whiffs?

Also, those things have been hiding in almost plain sight forever.

by mattyfrommo on Aug 7, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

league average has been around 8.5% for the last three years

10%+ on whiffs is probably a good threshold for those with a lot of whiffs.

THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fan Club
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by CodyG on Aug 7, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crafty?

I mean Marcum maybe, but his offspeed stuff is filthy.

THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fan Club
Twitter|Google+|PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!

by CodyG on Aug 7, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

you know man, it's stuff

just….stuff

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 8/4/11)
101 1/3 IP, 114 K, 44 BB/HBP, 39 ER, 5 HR, 2.89 FIP

by VolsnCards5 on Aug 7, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Salas v. Soria career

I’m willing to say I could be wrong on this one:

Salas – FB (91.3), SL (81.0), CH (85.0)
Soria – FB (91.4), SL (80.5), CH (84.5), CB (69.9)

Soria has an extra pitch to get people out.

Salas – SwStr% (11.6%)
Soria – SwStr% (10.8%)

Soria’s just done it for longer – and I think that living in KC and seeing his dominance in 08-09 really encouraged me to be on his side – since the Royals have so little to look forward to. Seeing him come into games with a lead has been the highlights of many summers for my friends who are die hard Royals’ fans.

by stlfan on Aug 7, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Soria kinda looks like Wainwright to me

At least superficially. Waino’s slider is faster, his curveball faster. His change is slower. More grounders.

Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.

by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Franky never had K numbers like Salas

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 7, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Salas's stuff > Franklin's stuff

Salas also doesn’t need to mix it up nearly as much as Franklin either. His fastball alone is better than any pitch Franklin has.

by EddieHarsch on Aug 7, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fastballs

If you compare their FBs using Pitch F/X some surprising information can be found. Here’s how their avg. career FBs stack up. As a note, I’m using the FA’s, though Pitch F/X did classify several of each’s fastballs as FTs(two-seam). Most were FAs, so I’m going with that.

Name: mph/horizontal/vertical

Salas: 91.2/-4.3/10.3

Franklin: 91.5/-5.2/8.2

Fairly similar. Both have to locate very well to get guys out on their FBs b/c neither throw particularly hard or with unbelievable movement. Franklin didn’t do that at all this year with any pitches and that was it for him.

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 7, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah i know.

i was being a bit facetious. Salsa has what 8.9k/9 this year?

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Aug 7, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

As of today that K-rate is 8.78, coupled with a nifty BB/9 of 2.32. The dude can pitch.

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 7, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll be comparing the discarded relievers with the new relievers in tomorrow's main post.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

With self-calculated league averages!

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Aug 7, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately, no.

I didn’t have time this weekend to put that together. Instead, you’ll get to look at how bad the castoffs were as compared to the new relievers.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you just need it for 2011? I can do that real quick if you want

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Aug 7, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wound up making far larger tables than I had intended and just didn't have the time to get the league-average for:

ERA, FIP, xFiP, LOB%, SwStr%, Contact%, K/9, BB/9, FB Velocity (if that’s even possible), Inherited runner scoring percentage, and WPA.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

But you do want this information, yes?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Aug 7, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

For the life of me, I can’t figure out why Fangraphs doesn’t have such information on a “League Average” page.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

They have league averages for some stuff

But you can’t exclude it to just relievers. Annoying.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Aug 7, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

you could just

export this to excel and do it yourself pretty easily i think

Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
Twitter | Google+

by prophetjohn on Aug 7, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here

You go

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Aug 7, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry about the terrible formatting

I have to go to brunch in like 10 minutes and it felt like a lot of work

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Aug 7, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's no big deal.

I’ll just type them into a table for the post. Thanks for putting this together.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's noon

isn’t that just lunch?

Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
Twitter | Google+

by prophetjohn on Aug 7, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

It depends more on when you wake up

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs

by mysterui on Aug 7, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

good point

i said that as i was making breakfast at noon

Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
Twitter | Google+

by prophetjohn on Aug 7, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks a lot.

Now, I get to go add to the tables.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that on the Leaders tab or the individual players or both?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, including starting pitchers in an average for gauging relievers seems off to me.

What do you think?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 7, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

individual players only

if it’s there it’s above each little group of stats

Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
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by prophetjohn on Aug 7, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those guys stunk

A friend of mine who is a Royals fan were emailing a bit last night and I stressed how terrible the 2011 Cards bullpen, V 1.0 was. Franklin and Batista were leaned on very heavily early in the year and both were absolutely dreadful. Now that all of the dead weight is gone, the Cards pen suddenly looks pretty promising. I’m looking forward to seeing exactly how big of a shift you’ve come up with.

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 7, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Royals' pen this year had been a bright spot as well

I haven’t looked at their stats since the AS break.

by stlfan on Aug 7, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man do I love watching that infield play.

To see Descalso, Schumaker, and Furcal throw to first base is high value entertainment.

by EddieHarsch on Aug 7, 2011 11:13 AM EDT reply actions  

hope albert has extra padding in that glove

Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
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by prophetjohn on Aug 7, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really like the Furcal addition.

it may very well be because Theriot lowered my expectations so much that Furcal had no other choice but to be an improvement. But…

FURCAMANIA IS RUNNING WILD BROTHER!

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Aug 7, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

rewatching the highlights from last night

we caught so many breaks, and benefitted from two very bad calls. we probably should not have won that game. it makes we wonder if its retribution from the gobs, or if we owe them now.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club

In addition, IHeartFreesie

by IHeartBoog on Aug 7, 2011 11:36 AM EDT reply actions  

so true

It’s amazing we are still in this with all the injuries…so let’s cash in now and everyone stays healthy through rest of season!

11 in '11

Carp on Brendan

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Aug 7, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

i missed the game

we had dinner guests last night. What were the bad calls?

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Aug 7, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

the stanton "trap" of the furcal hit in the first was the most blinding example

mostly because albert’s homer came right afterwards.

I think there was a close call at first that went the cards way, but I can’t remember the specifics..

"I wonder if I put on a uniform and told La Russa I wanted to play for him if I could be a big leaguer too?"
"that all depends. are you gritty?" "You would need a mediocre decade of MLB experience first" "do you have a goatee, are you short, and do you try really hard?" "Are you willing to play four positions terribly?"

by cschepers on Aug 7, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

today's lineup

Furcal SS, Theriot 2B, Pujols 1B, Holiday LF, Berkman RF, Jay CF, Cruz C, Descalso 3B, Garcia P

that’s three games for freese now. he should have been DL’d

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club

In addition, IHeartFreesie

by IHeartBoog on Aug 7, 2011 11:40 AM EDT reply actions  

p.s. glad to see cruz in there, rather than laird

he played well at C yesterday

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club

In addition, IHeartFreesie

by IHeartBoog on Aug 7, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like Cruz as a backup catcher

I’d imagine he’d be back full-time next season and that the organization would let Bryan Anderson roam free.

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 7, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why no Furcal?

Tony said today that Freezer is running and hitting today or tomorrow “coming along nicely”

11 in '11

Carp on Brendan

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Aug 7, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

This coming from a guy...

…who at the beginning of the season thought there was a cloud of doom over this team… The emergence of all these young guys in the bullpen has been one of the most exciting developments of the season, right behind Berkman’s re-emergence as a crusher of baseballs and the long-overdue dismissal of Colby Rasmus’s stupid face and his stupid… face.. I was emailing an old friend of mine who is a Royals fan, and was very joyful to type out the stat-lines of Salas, Motte, Boggs, Lynn, and Sanchez (who is hopefully going to be back healthy at some point, even if not necessarily this year). I really like the Cards bullpen right now, and anyone who thinks the pen needs further help at this point hasn’t been paying any attention.

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 7, 2011 12:01 PM EDT reply actions  

I know it's been linked to before - probably by me, even - but

It’s something to brighten up the Cardinal faithful on a potential Sunday 4-game sweep day.

by stlfan on Aug 7, 2011 12:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Curse you. Now my wife wonders why I'm sitting in front of the computer, crying.

"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.

by StanTheManFan on Aug 7, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too!

But I’m a lumberjack and IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII’m ok. I work all day and I

11 in '11

Carp on Brendan

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Aug 7, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

i didnt read the whole thing,

think i ve read some of it before. It starts to anger me that MLB didnt do the spectacle for him at the ASG they did for Ted..

because TLR

by punchinjudy on Aug 7, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had an insight today while discussing this posting with my sons

and I’m curious whether people think there’s anything to it.

Sabermetric wisdom is that “closer” is no different than any other relief role, and to some extent, I agree. However, I do think it lends itself to a different kind of pitcher. If you have a guy like Franklin, who didn’t have one overpowering pitch but threw a lot of different stuff, then all it takes is for one of those pitches not to be working, and his effectiveness will be diminished until he figures out he can’t use that pitch. A starter has that time. If he gives up a run or two in the first while he’s figuring out that he shouldn’t use the slider today, he still has five or six innings left to get the pitch selection right. A closer doesn’t have that luxury. One single use of a non-working pitch can equal a blown save, and calumny. By contrast, a 99-mph fastball ALWAYS works. If a closer knows he can throw that, he doesn’t have to screw around figuring out which pitch in his assortment he has to avoid.

So maybe there really is something to a closer being “different.” It’s not a matter of mindset or disposition, it’s a matter of how reliable the toolkit is. Franklin’s mediocre but varied toolkit ceased to be reliable, and he ceased to be effective. Mariano Rivera basically has one tool in the kit, but it always works, 100% of the time. Hopefully Salas will be closer to the Rivera extreme, with a more limited repertory but one that he can absolutely rely on.

"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.

by StanTheManFan on Aug 7, 2011 12:26 PM EDT reply actions  

I think you could extend that to all relievers too

Bullpen pitchers generally have to get ready quickly and may or may not have 100% command of all of their pitches. They are, to some extent, all trick pitchers*, who do one or two things really well and hope they can do that long enough that the other team’s hitters don’t figure them out before the reliever’s outing is over. If that trick isn’t working that day then the pitcher will struggle. Starters, in theory, all have a few ways to go at hitters.

As a side note, I’m hoping the organization realizes Scrabble may be less of a trick guy and more of a “have a few ways” guy and gives him a shot in the rotation next year. I’m not optimistic.

*And yes I do consider a guy who throws gas to be a trick pitcher.

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 7, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not so much the "long man" or the "mopup guy"

But yeah, true of relievers in general.

What I hadn’t realized before was that it only takes that one broken-down pitch to make a closer, or other short guy, ineffective.

"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.

by StanTheManFan on Aug 7, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Particularly b/c most closers...

…really only throw two pitches or so. Hell, Rivera only throws one (but with such amazing movement and command that one can be used in several ways). Guys like Soria and Franklin, who use a few more pitches, are pretty rare, and even then if they lose one of their better pitches they’re up a creek. Franklin had the nasty disease of Loseallyourpitchesitis. That wasn’t pretty at all.

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 7, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

And by closers I meant often used relievers.

I swear I’m not this old…

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 7, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

There used to be just Pitchers ala Bob Gibson

If they could do it all then w/o steroids, healthy living, advances in surgery techniques, etc. They could do it now.

11 in '11

Carp on Brendan

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Aug 7, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm feeling a brewers loss today

hope the cards can get a sweep?

because TLR

by punchinjudy on Aug 7, 2011 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I second that feeling

I agreed say Ay those in disagreement say Nay.

Pause

Ay’s have it then

Secretary document it in the minutes.

New business

11 in '11

Carp on Brendan

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Aug 7, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

last night i was feeling theyd both lose

it kinda goes with the season, but lets go for a sweep eh

because TLR

by punchinjudy on Aug 7, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

GameThread. Currently in a delay, though.

Colby in TOR: .216/.237/.378 1HR 7K/1BB 8/06

by The Continental on Aug 7, 2011 1:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Weather radar looks bad at present

Anyone have any info on how long?

We need to play this game I’m thinking

11 in '11

Carp on Brendan

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Aug 7, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

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