Lance Berkman: How Much Is He Worth?
by azruavatar on Aug 21, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
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PrintForgive the brevity of this post. After being indisposed for most of the day, I sat down to pen an article while watching some mixed martial arts fights. Unfortunately, after spilling 700 words on the page and scheduling the post, I realized that I had, for all intents and purposes, written a post that closely echoed tom's post from yesterday. Great minds and all that jazz.
So, as tom made the point that the season is, basically, over, I'm going to get a jump on the other authors and ask an offseason question. What do you offer Lance Berkman?
Berkman spoke with Joe Strauss -- I can only assume under duress -- and indicated that he's not motivated by money or statistics but would rather play for a contender in 2012. He includes the Cardinals in that criteria though he is "uncertain" of the clubs plans for next year. With the Cardinals edging Colby Rasmus off the club, they outfield picture is less crowded than it once was with the real need being a right handed centerfield option. Allen Craig does not constitute a right handed centerfield option.
2011 has been an unequivocal success for Berkman who rebounded from a .248/.368/.413 to a .292/.405/.579 picking up .065 points of wOBA in the process. He looked like a player who had gotten old in a hurry and now finds himself in a position that will likely yield a two year contract from someone.
If you're the Cardinals, what kind of contract, if any, do you offer Lance Berkman? 1 year or 2 year? Or do you pass the opportunity to allow Allen Craig to assume responsibilities in right field?
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Are you sure about Craig?
Maybe he could be like Jon Jay? UZR has him being terrible at the corner outfield spots (overall, worse than Craig), but good in CF.
And let’s be honest, it’s not like Jay is a speedster. Not that Craig is either, but Jay is 6 for 11 in stolen bases, Craig is 4 for 4. Not that it means much, but at the same time, I’m not sure what evidence there is that Craig would be so much worse than Jay (or Skip). Not that he would be a great option, but that there aren’t any on the roster.
Of course, I also thought Berkman looked more like a guy who got hurt. I’ve never understood the logic of an older player getting hurt, then suddenly his poor performance is blamed on his age. Maybe that is a factor, but it seems to be overlooking the obvious…
Yeah, I feel safe saying that Jay is faster and would have more range than Craig, regardless of some stolen base numbers
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Also
According to minor league statistics, Craig has 3 errors in the outfield in 240 chances (along with 8 assists.) Jay had 2 errors (and 11 assists) in 778 chances in the outfield. If you give Craig 778 chances in the outfield, that would give him 10 errors (but many more assists.
The decision is complicated by pujols
I’d get him locked up early with a very high one year deal. In the event Pujols doesn’t sign then Lance can play first. I’d overpay for one year contracts. Hard to argue that, at almost any price, he would have been a bargain this year. I’ll take that bet for next year.
Problem is that he wants to play on a winner, so if Carp and Pujols are cut loose, not sure he will want to sign. He’ll want to know they are a contender before he signs.
I love me some Puma — he’s the type of gritty veteran we should have as opposed to Miles, Theriot, etc
Just win
I say let him go...I think?
I suppose a lot of things hinge on any Pujols contract, but even putting that to the side, I think that we thank Berkman for the amazing season and then let him walk.
“Unequivocal success” is absolutely the right phrase, and it’s a credit to the FO for seeing beyond his bad 2010. That said, this is a guy who will be 36 come next February and probably will be looking for a two-year deal with at least $10 MM annually. We struck gold with him this year, but considering age (or age/health), it doesn’t seem worth it. That money would be better spent filling the gaping holes we have on the middle of the infield.
Also, though I’m pretty bad at remembering the rules for compensatory picks, it seems Berk would be a Type A free agent, netting us a 1st round draft pick and a sandwich pick. Plenty of value there, assuming he’s assigned Type A and not Type B.
But…if Pujols does leave, then paying Berkman to play first base could make sense. He’d be less of a liability defensively, and it’d save his knees.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
I think Berkman is going to make type A
And I think the cards should offer arb. We either sign him to a two year deal, he accepts and we have to pay him ~12M for 1 year, or he doesn’t accept and we get draft picks. All of those outcomes are acceptable in my eyes.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 8/17/11)
110 2/3IP, 122 K, 48 BB/HBP, 49 ER, 6 HR, 3.00 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Aug 21, 2011 8:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree
But vs light bulb’s post above I thought the move to the outfield saved his knees with the lack of side to side movement
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Aug 21, 2011 8:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And we can still offer him a competitive deal if he doesn't accept arbitration.
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 21, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
If he accepts arb
there’s almost no possible way that that doesn’t work out for the Cardinals, at least until the 2012 season starts.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
The article has him saying he's looking for a one year deal.
I’d offer him arb or sign him to a 1yr/10MM deal. He can play first if Pujols doesn’t sign or RF for one more year if Pujols does sign.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
You're right about the 1 year thing
But I do think Craig has the potential to put up a .360-.370 wOBA over a full year, and that’s probably just a shade under what I’d expect from a 36 year-old Lance Berkman.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
Allen Craig is a frustrating player to think about for me, largely because he always makes me think of Skip Schumaker
I know that might sound a little weird, but hear me out.
Craig is kinda/sorta still a player without a position. We know he can hit. We wish he had a position he was good at to stick all year so we could have his bat in the lineup consistently, for cheap. I’m not saying it would be prudent to just do the “square peg round hole” thing and force him into a position that he would play badly… but the thing is, the team has already shown it was willing to do this for Skip Schumaker, a player who never had anything close to the offensive potential of Allen Craig.
Part of me feels like we should sign Berk again and stick him in right should we keep Albert (and I still hope we keep Albert). But then, what to do with Craig? Holliday is in lift. I can’t support or imagine the idea of Craig in center. Definitely not shortstop. I hope we either keep Furcal or trade for some young guy with potential and good defense (not even I think Jackson is ready). But hm… could Craig play second? Do I really believe they would try that for more than a handful of starts? Should I even support that idea? Probably not.
And then I always think, “but Skip Schumaker…”
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Berkman is a much better bet to put up a .360 wOBA than is Craig
If Berkman really is only looking for a one year deal, I would sign him and let Craig play second.
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 21, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm still nowhere near sold on Craig as a full-time second baseman
As much flak as he gets, Skip has made huge strides in the field this season and honestly doesn’t look that far below average any longer. Craig, OTHO, from what I’ve seen looks like a disaster in the infield. For what it would cost, I wouldn’t mind seeing a platoon of the two next year.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
by monkeysareblue on Aug 23, 2011 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup.
As much as I like Fat Elvis, he’s looked like he’s been playing on roller skates all year. He’s a banana peel away from double-knee replacement surgery. As much as I would hate to see him go, he’s a little too perfect a fit for an AL DH/backup first baseman.
by peppermartin on Aug 21, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Lack of Rasmus, pitching questionable, Pujols older (or gone), Berkman isn't coming back (he'd be crazy not to DH), and MO's unquestioned ability to turn something into nothing -
man I have a bad feeling that this team is going to suck for quite some time.
yeah, well, that's just like, my opinion, man
I have a feeling we won't lose over 800 man games to injuries again next year
if we lose some age. We gain back a former cy young caliber pitcher, as well.
We've been telling ourselves that we won't have as big a problem with injuries next year since 2006, haven't we?
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
True enough,
but how often does a team, any team, have to deal with losing their best pitcher for the season, losing time from their top three hitters (arguably 4, with Freese going down and Colby no longer here) , and losing significant time from the primary backup to those 4 hitters (Craig).
Maybe we didn’t have any MORE injuries this season, but it just seemed like the injuries hit in just the right way to make them the most painful they could possibly be.
I like to think that we have had an inordinate amount of injury this year and it "shouldn't" continue next year
But at some point I start to wonder if the GOBs really are toying with us.
I mean, at this point we still have a better pythag record than the Brewers. We wailed and gnashed our teeth last year because we “should” have been just as good as the Reds, but they took the division. This year we all knew/hoped that would correct itself. Well, the GOBs are screwing the Reds over right now, since they have almost as good a pythag as we and the Brewers do, and yet have a record under .500. However, they’re screwing us right along with the Reds, as we are under-performing and the Brewers are massively over-performing (according to that kind of analysis).
I just don’t have much hope about that kind of thing anymore. Baseball is a fickle game.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
by mattybobo on Aug 21, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I always love a good Charlie Brown reference in the morning.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 21, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand what you're saying.
When you’re looking at it that way, though, all I can do is shrug and say 2 things.
1) Luck. The Cards are, I believe, 17 and 19 in 1 run games. The Brewers are something like 1,964 and 6 in them (27 and 15, actually.) That’s a 14-game swing in games where a single bad pitch or blown play could have changed the outcome. That leads me to my second point…
2) TLR. To a certain extent, you make your own luck. Those “one bad pitches” I mentioned above, too many of them for the Cardinals came from the arms of clearly ineffective relievers in high-leverage situations. I was on the fence on Tony up until last year, when it became painfully clear to me that he was costing us wins with his in-game decisions. And hey, now that franktista is gone, thank god we’ve got Rhotel to fill in. (Yes, I know that Rhodes and Dotel still theoretically have something to contribute, if they’re used correctly. But how many times have we seen Dotel face a lefty since he’s been here?)
If the GOB are punishing us, I say it’s for the hubris of a manager that thinks he’s smarter than the game.
by dronemc on Aug 21, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
well said
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 21, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't make me feel better at all
Because, as I’ve said on VEB before, I have no confidence that we won’t have TLR manage for us again next year. I don’t think it’s inevitable, but I see no reason to put the odds of it happening at anything less than 50%. That is, at best I think it’s just as likely that he leaves as stays. More realistically I see him staying.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Again, I understand what you're feeling.
I tend to agree with you on him staying put and us having to deal with another mess in 2012, but I’m taking solace in the fact that I’m not absolutely, metaphysically certain he’ll stay around like I was last year.
I think maybe it’s just because I’ve been watching Cardinal baseball for 25+ years and I may be getting a little more sanguine about things, but I can’t find myself feeling like it’s the end of the world any more. Yeah, it still burns my ass when I see Franklin out there slinging meatballs or Dotel kept in to face a two lefties between right-handed bats, or see Theriot at short, or see Ryan in Seattle or see Holliday or Pujols or Berkman double-switched out of a tie game. But after the game, it’s easier for me to let it go.
And think of it this way, the suffering when the team underperforms is what makes our fandom legitimate. It’s what separates us from the pink-cap wearing bandwagon jumpers. Victory, for us, is that much sweeter when it comes (and it will come, sooner or later. We’re not the Royals or the Cubs) by virtue of our caring more about it.
Well I don't think Tony is so bad a manager compared to Brewers guy
that it explains the 14 win difference in 1 run games. Most likely a lot of that is just plain ole bad luck.
That said, Tony will still play Ryan Fucking Theriot’s equivalent for 500 PA next year and will probably get Mo to trade Jaime for Elmer Dessens, so I would still like him to fuck off and quit.
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 21, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you fucking kidding me on this one?
Geez. Tony’s gonna throw in Albert and Berkman for my jock strap and your mother, too. (or is that mysterui’s?)
I don't think Tony is the explanation for everything either
But he’ll probably still be around next year, and luck issues won’t necessarily balance out next year. The most we can really hope for is neutral luck.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I think the NL Central has all of Tony's strange moves figured out
That’s one reason we’ve been so inept against the ineptest division in baseball. He’s been here too long and all of his tendencies are now common knowledge in the division. I’m for some new blood at the top.
Hm. That's an intriguing idea.
Do you have any examples in mind of things that the other teams exploit?
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Only the latter, a generalized suspicion
I don’t see enough games to have specific plot points in mind. But take the 12 walk-off losses for example. His general bullpen management is very well engrained and the opposition can plan accordingly, by manipulating him into making moves that eventually backfire.
And to add another point here, the same can be said of
Duncan’s pitch calling. The series with P’burgh last week where it seemed like there was a first pitch home run every other inning.
tlr views pitchers as position p[layers
he likes to “use” them all, but
if you always end up with the last pitcher and position players in the game at the end
you will likely loose unless the other team does the same
and they don’t
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
disagree
you do make some luck by making correct decisions
tlr consistently doesn’t do that
the primary failing i see is not putting players in the positions where they can be most successful
craig at 2nd, center
skipppy at 2nd
tg in center
dd at short
even erriot at short
etc
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
What?
We should expect neutral luck, and hope for good luck.
Do you think Tony ran over the GOB’s cat or something?
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 21, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what the hell he did
At this point I’m hoping for neutral luck. I am not going to bother hoping for good luck.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
It's an odd-numbered decade, okay.
No getting around it.
From the blackhole of the Iowa TV market.
1 playoff appearance total in the 50's, 70's, and 90's....
and that was the heartbreaking loss to Atlanta in ’96.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
you guys are really bringing me down
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 21, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
As Jack Clark might say
Donovon Osborne looked like he had poopy pants out there.
by Merry CRasmus on Aug 21, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
remember all that great young pitching we were counting on in the 90's?
Rene Arocha? Rheal Cormier? Allen Watson? Donovan Osborne? Alan Benes? Brian Barber?
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike Perez, Omar Olivares, Mark Clark, Ken Hill, Manny Aybar,
Jose Jimenez?
Matt Morris was truly the only one that came out of that group that panned out. However, Ken Hill had some decent seasons for other teams
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
oh...and Cormier had a nice career as a reliever...not a starter though
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Osborne and Benes were injury caused
Osborne was actually pretty good for us for a while IMO, but hard to think of anything but that game 7 implosion with him. Watson was just a major disappointment, no way around that. I always liked Olivares way more than I should. I remember being upset when they moved him to the pen, but I have no idea if that was any solid basis for feeling that way. Probably not.
by Merry CRasmus on Aug 21, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Olivares and Watson
were both probably better hitters than they were pitchers
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha...
according to B-Ref…Watson had 1.4 career WAR as a hitter and -.2 WAR as a pitcher
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at the 1995 season!
.417/.447/.528
We should have put him at 1st that year, or 3rd…anywhere in our infield really. Could have hit for any of those guys we were using and probably been an offensive upgrade.
by Merry CRasmus on Aug 21, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I tend to disagree with this assessment
When you look at the young pitching coming up, if 1 of Miller or Martinez lives up to hype, then the Cards have a #1 starter right there. The other young pitchers, plus some of the young hitting prospects, Wong, Cox, M. Carp (who probably gets traded, or possibly they trade Freese), Taveras, and on and on. This team would be better suited to take the money that would be spent on Pujols and Berkman (call it $37 million conservatively) and get a top flight short stop (Reyes anybody??), resign Carpenter for a year, and pick up a legit #3, with spare change for backup catcher, and utility infielder. Move T. Greene to 2nd, with Holiday, Jay, Craig starting in outfield. Chambers is your backup CF, and get a better 5th outfielder than Cory Patterson.
Who's playing 1B in that scenario?
I presume Hamilton? Or did I just gloss right over where you said it?
Hamilton or Adams
and if another Outfielder wants to grab the ring, you might find Craig playing first.
i disagree
Berkman may not see the lack of Rasmus as a bad thing, Wainwright and Garcia does not make our pitching questionable.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Will be Tough to Afford Puma
Without getting too deep into rosternomics, I think it will be tough to afford even a 1/10 deal for Puma assuming 1) Albert stays; and 2) we exercise Carp’s option (should be a no-brainer—how else can you get a 3.5-4 WAR pitcher for one year for $15M? You’ll almost certainly have to go multiple years to get that from EJax or Buehrle) .
Assuming Albert gets $20M in 2012, you have $87M committed before addressing Yadi (FA), SS/Furcal, and Waino’s contract situation.
Our best bet is probably Craig in RF (or he swaps with Matty), Furcal at SS, DD at 2B, and maybe Crisp as our right-handed CF. Even that assumes a payroll in excess of $100M, which is no given in this environment.
Note:
AW’s 2012 option is $9M and is included in the $87M; but it seems the club wold try to renegotiate an extension instead of voiding its 2012-13 options due to his surgery.
by Hungry Jack on Aug 21, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Given that I'm a member of the (apparently shrinking) "please keep Albert" contingent, this gives me pause when it comes to keeping Berkman
I’m not sure I wouldn’t rather just try an outfield with Holliday and Craig at the corners instead of paying for Berkman, even if it’s only for a year. I keep trying to convince myself tha the team will finally raise payroll somewhat in the post-Albert-contract era, but I’m not sure it’ll actually happen. So your scenario might be wise.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Thank Berkman for his nice year and let him walk.
Craig in right frees up a ton of money for Pujols and I don’t think that there will be that much drop off from Berkman to Craig. Less bat of course but I think Craig will play better defense.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
by WizardofOz1982 on Aug 22, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yadi is not a FA in 2012. The club has an option, which I think is for around $7MM.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Yadi-Yup
My bad. Club option is for $7M. Prolly’ another no-brainer. It does not change the overall financial situation in terms of the ability to afford Puma. It’s either him and another craptastic FA SS or a relatively decent SS and Craig + the Large Adron Chamber in one of the corner spots.
You won't get 3.5-4 WAR from Edwin Jackson
He’s only ever been worth that much one time. He’s not consistent enough to reach that mark.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
by WizardofOz1982 on Aug 22, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
If Pujols is coming back I wouldn't offer Berkman more than a year, or maybe...
a year with an option, say $13 million in 2012 and the same in 2013 with a $2 million buyout. If Pujols is leaving, then I think you go 2/26 or even 3/33 no problem. Berkman strikes me as a guy who will hit until his knees won’t let him just like Larry Walker and he’s unlikely to get hurt at first base.
DFA Patterson!!!
Didn't he get hurt at first base in the first place?
I could be wrong, maybe he got hurt last year running the bases or something. I don’t really remember much about the nature of his injury other than the company line of “outfield will be better for my knees because of x y and z”.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I think it was all of the lateral movement at 1b
whereas the OF he gets a chance to turn and run straight for a while.
He hurt it during a base running drill in ST.
Also, Berkman never said that his chances of injury were greater at 1B, only that he thought his knees felt better and were less sore playing outfield, rather than 1B, because there were fewer short bursts of lateral movement.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like it was more of a "I think I could recover better in the outfield" kind of statement?
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Yeah, I just think he thinks his knees feel better on a day-to-day basis
Playing OF rather than 1B. I actually think it probably doesn’t much matter either way, he was just responding to repeated questions about whether his knees could handle the OF.
Lance has never had a lot of knee problems in his career; he hurt his knee in 2010 before the season started during a baserunning drill, had surgery, but never got a chance to rehab properly and the issue lingered all year. The next year he was fully recovered.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, good points.
At this point, when it comes to signing Berkman I’m more worried about whether it would be a worthwhile alternative to putting Craig out there for way less money. Would his offense be better enough to be worth the money? I just don’t know, and while his performance this year with the bat has been awesome it’s not like he’s a sure bet to just repeat that next year.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
His numbers this year closely track his career numbers.
Even accounting for standard age related decline, he’s a good bet to put up superior numbers to Craig. If he falls off a cliff or has a significant injury, we still have Craig to step in.
Basically, we’re in the same position as last year except that we know 2010 wasn’t the cliff for Berkman and he may cost 20% more. Still a good idea to sign him, IMO.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
It does kind of look like Craig can get plenty of playing time in because he can back up so many positions
I could plausibly see him backing up first, third, left, right, and second. It’s nice to have bench players with good bats and not just defensive guys.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Somebody should do a fanpost contrasting the Bill James et al. defensive spectrum with the St. Louis Cardinals version
I mean, we trotted Pedro Feliz out there at third last year because, apparently, his sterling defense was so important at that position. The same team that didn’t just plug Allen Craig in at third rather than play Pedro Feliz also had Allen Craig start a game at center field. We live in strange and exciting times.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I can do without the strange and exciting times.
I prefer plain old, boring, winning baseball.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 21, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
this would help a bunch
and usually leads to the other
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 22, 2011 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions
w/o trades i see
bman and craig platooning in right
jaybird in center
looking outside for some back up rh hitter for center
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
I don't see any RH options on the FA market.
Coco Crisp is a switch hitter, so he may be an option. Frankly, I’d rather save the money and use Chambers. We had two LHB in CF to start this year and it was fine.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
If we sign Coco,
can we at least make him call himself Quenton? The cereal nickname irritates me for some reason.
We should make him call himself Cookie, or maybe Golden
Or maybe Waffle, or Sugar, or Oatmeal, or Apple Raisin. Or just mix it up every game for variety.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Do you mean affordable/desirable or just RH options at all?
Carlos Beltran switch hits.
Mike Cameron hits RH – and might retire.
Yeah, plausible ones. We're not signing Carlos Beltran to play CF.
Jesus, I hope we don’t sign Cameron.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd give sugar shane a shot
at least he has speed and catch the ball
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
how can you put a price on that smile
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 21, 2011 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'd sign Berkman to a 1 year deal, if indeed he would accept it.
I’d also offer Albert no more than a 5 year deal. He just isn’t worth the risk, when talking about that type of money, at more than 5 years.
If Albert doesn’t sign, you have Craig and Berkman for RF and 1b. If Albert does sign, you HAVE to find a way to get Craig at bats, whether spelling the corners in the IF and OF, or more time at second (in this scenario you give Craig almost all of the ST time at second base)
I agree.
I think the Craig is the top backup at LF/RF/3B/2B/1B next year – which should be 4-5 games a week under TLR.
I'm hoping that MCarp is the top backup at 3B, but otherwise yes.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm hoping that McCarp is the starter at 3B and we sell high on Freese
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Trades are rare, especially for players like Freese (non-rental, pre-arb)
And I don’t trust the team to get a “sell high” return on Freese anyway.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
lost faith in Mo's skillz, eh?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 21, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
surely not until he lasts a whole season
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
I need to do some research
Aside from 2004 and 2005, I’d like to know the last this this team surged, instead of falling apart, in August and September. This drives me nuts.
at least the guy I’m seeing the game with today is a Brewer’s fan and not a Cubs fan.
so he'll have better beer?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Aug 21, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
It opens the flavor!!!
Tornadoes make beer taste gooder. Didn’t you know?
check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos
Rifling: Improvement for guns, questionable for beer bottles
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
interesting new bottles, same crappy light beer
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 21, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing about a Cubs fan
Is that if, say, we lose this game, they start razzing me, and I turned them to say “dude, your team has lost 100 games and it’s only August”
a. They wouldn’t know if I was lying or not
b. That wouldn’t actually bother them.
I could say “if we’d won that game we’d be tied with the Angels for best record in the majors” and I’d just get a blank stare.
by sdrone on Aug 21, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Fritz did this recently.
Though I can’t seen to find it in the abomination of SBNation locals. I have a seizure every time I go to one of those web pages.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
End result was
while the last 5 years have been rough if you look at his entire tenure in StL, Cardinals teams have performed inline with their overall record in the month of september.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Yeah, I remember that
Fritz was coming at it from the opposite angle though (or maybe it’s the inverse angle or the reciprocal angle, I dunno) and disproving the canard that La Russa teams “turn it on down the stretch” or some such nonsense.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
This is correct
we won in september last year but outside of that the last year we won in the 9th month 05.
check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos
After last night's MIL game
I’m convinced it’s just not the Cards year.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Aug 21, 2011 12:26 PM EDT reply actions
I love the Puma and..
he is my favorite Cardinal, but he is 36 and potentially a type A free agent. I think the Cardinals would be clearly better off offering him arbitration, letting him walk and taking the picks, assuming some other team takes a chance on him.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
And under this scenario, since he's already said he'd take a one year deal
And wants to play for the Cards, and he would certainly get a raise on his 8mm$ salary this year in arb, all you’re saying is that you’d like to sign Lance to a 1yr $10-13mm deal. And there’s zero chance the Cards would even go to arb against Lance, so they would just work out a one year deal along the salary lines above. This is all fine, btw, but there’s pretty much no chance the Cards offer arb to Lance as a type A, and he leaves to take a deal with someone else.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be a hard choice
If Berkman would take a 2yr/$20MM contract and play like he has this year (4WAR), that would be good value for money in a free agent signing. $20MM for 8WAR; $2.5MM per WAR.
The opportunity cost is Craig, until he proves that he can play 2B. He has put up 1.4WAR in 47 games this year. And in baseball terms, he plays for free.
mlbtr.com (take it for what it’s worth) currently has Berkman at the top of the Type B list. (Note of concern: Edwin Jackson is at the very bottom of the Type B list).
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Aug 21, 2011 12:40 PM EDT reply actions
If we get no compensation for Jackson that's gonna... well honestly it won't even hurt all that much anymore
I think we’ll be numb by that point, but it will be one more splinter that we’ll have to pick out.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
by mattybobo on Aug 21, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if the PTBNL's depend on whether or not Dotel and Jackson are type B's or not
If thats the case, I would think its more likely to get a good player using a brand new pick than rifling through the Jays secondary prospects
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Would we really offer Dotel arbitration?
Rhodes should be a Type B, too…
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Aug 21, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess not...
not unless there was some sort of handshake agreement for him to not accept, but that doesn’t seem likely. Still, I’m willing to bet that the PTBNL’s are dependent in some way on what kind of comp picks the team gets.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Can they do that?
I ask out of complete ignorance, I have no idea if deals can have conditions like that.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
yeah...
they can do it Javier Vazquez and Trevor Hoffman had agreements to not accept with their teams last year….I think its normally something thats agreed upon at the time of signing the contract though.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
And the teams can do stuff with Players TBNL like that too?
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
oh...in regards to the trade situation....
yeah…they can do that. It might be kind of loopholey, though, I’m not sure. I think its really weird that the deal is for 3 PTBNL or Cash….I’m thinking if the cards get picks…they also get a modest amount of cash….if the cards don’t get picks then they get the 3 ptbnl’s
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
its not uncommon to hear about a deal for a ptbnl or cash....
but 3 ptbnl’s and cash?! thats a new one to me…theres gotta be some conditions that apply
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh
Whenever I see come interesting speculation about possible conditions of contracts and trade, I always half-assume that either the players’ union or the MLB honchos would nix stuff like that for one reason or another.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
i think thats why we don't get the full details about what
is really going on….like i said, kind of “loopholey”
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
he's going to be one of the PTBNL
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
oh crap it's going to happen now isn't it?
"I wonder if I put on a uniform and told La Russa I wanted to play for him if I could be a big leaguer too?"
"that all depends. are you gritty?" "You would need a mediocre decade of MLB experience first" "do you have a goatee, are you short, and do you try really hard?" "Are you willing to play four positions terribly?"
this is tlr we're talking about here
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the words “any old cast-offs veteran-y type players nobody else wants” in that list.
"I wonder if I put on a uniform and told La Russa I wanted to play for him if I could be a big leaguer too?"
"that all depends. are you gritty?" "You would need a mediocre decade of MLB experience first" "do you have a goatee, are you short, and do you try really hard?" "Are you willing to play four positions terribly?"
I know this
it’s called a joke, VEB.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Carp's option?
Lohse and Westbrook will be on our team next year. I think we have to deal with it.
Garcia will be, too (we hope!).
What about Wainwright to start the season? Can we count on it?
Carp’s option is for $15MM with a $1MM buyout. Do you pay it? Or try to get him to negotiate a cheaper 2-year deal? Or let him walk (He projects to be a Type A; if we offer arbitration, and he accepts, he would likely get the same money as if we had picked up the option).
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Aug 21, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions
I'll be shocked if they don't do the buyout and re-negotiate.
I think it’s either that, or they do the buyout and let him walk.
Roster matrix
i asked yesterday for whoever makes those great posts to start for the off season..why not
Questions guys leaving and potential upgrades?
- Furcal bring back or not?
*berk - Jackson
- some #5 guy
- OF
I think next year assuming good health I’ll feel better about the pen potentially
Lynn did well and Sanchez as well. Plus Salas. maybe a few holes
because TLR
I would think we'll have to throw a lot of money and years at Wilson
I know he’s thirty, but he has been awesome the last two and a half years or however long he pitched in 2009. He’s going to be looking for a nice big deal after his emergence.
Even with the depressed offense, he has improved relative to last year based on FIP-.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I would love to have him. I don't see it happening when we still have Westbrook and Lohse to pay.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
ugh...
over $20 million between those 2 alone. thats about 18.5% of a $110 million payroll.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
is this the money that is used to sign Wainwright long term?
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
the last thing they should be worrying about is a long term contract for AW
just pick up the options and worry about him later
actually...
if he has a great 2012 and Lohse and Westbrook are coming off the books in 2012….I think it would be extremely wise to sign him long-term before free agency. If you ask me its the perfect time to sign him
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
i mean...
if he has a great 2012 coming off an injury season and you sign him…you probably save 10’s of millions of dollars versus letting him have an outstanding 2012 and 2013 and having to get into a bidding war for his services
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
CJ Wilson's next contract will be something like $60-80MM, maybe more
He’s the top FA pitcher on the market (other than CC if he opts out). He’d definitely be an upgrade, but I don’t know where we’re getting the money for that, unless Pujols, Carp, etc. leave.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
berk berk berk
would love to sign him again for next year, but the most logical scenario where that happens is if Pujols departs. and that would be even sadder than losing Puma.
low in the zone
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 21, 2011 1:55 PM EDT reply actions
by my eye, teams that could be looking for a 1B:
Baltimore
Tampa Bay
Toronto
LAA
Texas
CHC
Milwaukee
Pittsburgh
St. Louis
Arizona
LAD
San Diego
I could see Puma considering Tampa Bay, Toronto, LAA, Texas, Milwaukee, STL, and Arizona “contenders”. Assuming Berk is the third-most desirable option at 1B after Albert and Prince, and much more in the price range of Tampa, Toronto, Milwaukee, and Arizona, i see those teams as the next most-likely places for Puma to land (barring a prospect i don’t know about).
That’s plenty enough competition for the Cards to even forget about getting away with winning the bidding with a 1 year contract. And that doesn’t even take into consideration any team still willing to stick him in RF or DH.
ugh, didn't read that article above
idk if he is really looking for a 1 year deal or not, but i think teams will offer him 2
I don't think Berk will go to a team as DH...
He mentioned before signing here had had other offers from AL teams, but chose STL so he could play the field. He’s also mentioned his distaste for the DH rule. Arizona has the Goldshmidt kid…not sure if they are willing to commit to him for next year though. Milwaukee could make a serious play for him if they decide Gamel isn’t the answer at 1B. I think STL is the perfect fit for him. He’s going to have to take a lower deal to stay here, though.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
gotcha
not very up-to-date on other teams’ prospects. still there are plenty of teams to get into a bidding war over him with for someone to do something stupid to win the bidding
why don't we just sign the prince?
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
Now that would be a truly Macciavellian thing to do.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
why would we want an old ladies perfume?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 22, 2011 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
SPD
had a tidbit on Berks options 3-4 teams STL head of list and mulling retirement he said he’s accomplished alot, but wants a ring basically
because TLR
offer berk arb, let him walk, take the pick/picks
get some runs
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Aug 21, 2011 2:41 PM EDT reply actions
this is assuming his arb is around 10 mil. because if he signs i'd be okay with that too.
i don’t know what the likelihood of him getting signed elsewhere as a type A.
get some runs
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Aug 21, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
who would sign bman as a type-a
that would be a really risky thing to do
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
yerp
reasons i would allow for re-signing berkman:
- pujols does not re-sign
- he’ll take essentially the same contract as he had this year
the problem with the first one being that berkman will likely sign long before pujols and then it’s just very unlikely he’ll take another 1-year $8MM deal
Holy shit...
Alex Castellanos since the trade:
18 games played, 12 doubles, 4 triples, 4 homers, 16 RBI’s, 11 BB’s, .366/.466/.732/1.178
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 3:22 PM EDT reply actions
his line was good before...
but thats a crazy line for anyone at any level. 20 XBH’s in 18 games? as for the age…i was thinking he was only 23, but he actually just turned 25.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
i actually was thinking he was 27
but i still doubt he’s much more than a 4th OF
is he still in AA for the dodgers or did they promote him to AAA?
He just turned 25 a few days ago so he's in his age 24 season at AA
So not way too old, especially if he were at AAA, where he should probably be.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
the dodgers should prbably just call him up when rosters expand
it’s not like they have a whole lot of prospects ahead of him or much to lose. i’d be interested to see how he does
also..i'm not expressing regret about the trade...
i still don’t think he’s a prospect….i posted just to say “holy shit, look at this”
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope you’re all having a lovely weeknd.
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 3:29 PM EDT reply actions
I really like it.
Not usually my kind of thing, but to me it’s up-to-date R&B done really well. I like his voice quite a bit too.
Circled back to get House of Balloons, which I like, but I think I prefer Thursday.
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
eh?
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
click the arrow to advance to the next picture
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
he's right...
quit pushing your porno on us!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
If you're at work on Sunday, you deserve a stealth tit pic.
Fight the man!
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It took me a while to figure out what the hell this is
I’m gonna go with some sort of album. The bullshit-hipster-polaroid photography confused me.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Sign Berkman next year? How about trade him this year?
what do you think puma would bring back? i’d say a couple of B level prospects, considering he’d turn down arbitration and his status.
Goodnight, Sweet Prince. Colby Rasmus ~ June 7, 2005 ~ July 27, 2011
wouldn't hurt to try...
they can always pull him back.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 21, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I find myself rooting for Atlanta tho
they are the only chance I have for a marginal feel good post season. Milwaukee, hell no; Philly, no; SF, I think not. I guess my second choice would be Arizona, despite my dislike of Mark Grace.
And certainly no one in the AL I would root for, unless Cleveland pulls a miracle.
Yea I spent 13 years in Atlanta growing up,
I’ve been a life long Cardinal fan, but I have always rooted for Atlanta when they aren’t playing St.Louis. I really can’t stand the Brewers or Giants, so I hope they make a strong run this year.
by mick311 on Aug 21, 2011 5:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Club Flip, closed again.
mlbtraderumors MLB Trade Rumors
Brewers Designate Felipe Lopez For Assignment bit.ly/nZHTm5 #mlb
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 4:50 PM EDT reply actions
When does Weeks get back?
It’ll be like trading for an All-Star 2B…..
by Willie McGee's Twin on Aug 21, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like he's still a little while away.
I think they’re shooting for early Sept.
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
absolutley
we don’t have enough second basemen.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Rumors starting to come in that Gaddafi has been shot dead in Tripoli.
Confirmed that one son has been captured. Rebels making gains in Tripoli.
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 5:28 PM EDT reply actions
Presidential guard has surrendered.
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Gaddafi apparently alive, Tripoli continues to fall to rebels.
Libya’s rebel fighters will halt their offensive if Muammar Gaddafi announces his departure, the head of Libya’s rebel National Transitional Council said on Al Arabiya television on Sunday.
Mustapha Abd El Jalil added that the rebel forces would give Gaddafi and his sons safe passage out of the country.
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
No Furcal, second day in a row.
Cardinals St. Louis Cardinals
8/21 lineup: Schumaker 2B, Freese 3B, Pujols 1B, Holliday LF, Berkman RF, Jay CF, Molina C, Descalso SS, Westbrook P
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 5:37 PM EDT reply actions
Sprained his thumb.
Tripped over a rope during BP according to Buster Olney.
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
Well... hell.
BP today?
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Goold just retweeted it.
Colby in TOR: .232/.256/.427 3HR 19K/3BB 8/20
by The Continental on Aug 21, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
Tyler Greene!!!`2-4 with double and triple!!!
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
right, give him regular playing time
obviously we’re out of the race enough to let him play everyday.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
$35!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I'm assigning Rui as our treasurer
do you accept?
/you can’t say no
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
now then
how much in funds do we have?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Per statute 6 of our Constitution, which was drafted when Tyler Greene was, well, drafted
We have $1 for each batting average point in the Major Leagues
So, $196
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
excellent
make out a check for B-Ref as soon as possible.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
If I get six other members willing to dish $5,
I’d give $5 in support of the Tyler Greene Fanclub as a sponsor.
by stlcardsfan4 on Aug 21, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
you gonna set up a paypal account?
I’ll give 5
by Merry CRasmus on Aug 21, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm.. I would but I don't have enough info to start one up.
And I didn’t have a paypal before. But I’d contribute to whoever can set it up.
by stlcardsfan4 on Aug 21, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm in for $5
does VEB sponsor any other pages?
"I wonder if I put on a uniform and told La Russa I wanted to play for him if I could be a big leaguer too?"
"that all depends. are you gritty?" "You would need a mediocre decade of MLB experience first" "do you have a goatee, are you short, and do you try really hard?" "Are you willing to play four positions terribly?"
interesting twitter exchanges with @KenRosenthal
He says: Brewers are fun loving and Cardinals are tense and serious. Beyond the obvious (it’s more fun to win) I would love to see TLR leave cause I think he makes things uber serious. And Albert also is very moody and serious. At least he is a great baseball player and add a lot of value to the team. TLR doesn’t add near that much value. Does the intensity bring the team down over a long season?
The Brewers are overperforming this year. Is it luck? Is it because they are having fun? Or are they just having fun because they are winning?
Just a personal opinion. I’m tired of the serious intense approach. I’d like to see someone with a lighter touch in charge and see how the players respond. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
Who is TLR's next victim?
this was really surprising to me
2011 seem much more laid back and fun loving than cardinals teams in the past. how quickly turtlenecks are forgotten
Goodnight, Sweet Prince. Colby Rasmus ~ June 7, 2005 ~ July 27, 2011
by YesWeOquendo on Aug 21, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
what.
compared to the team-wide shenanigans of years past, turtlenecks was lame. there was no rush of supporting tidbits to go with that, and with a reporting corps that’s eager for such tidbits, the silence was resounding for most of the year.
it’s a tense team when Chris Carpenter is the height of entertainment.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Really? I mean we got rid of Boog because he was too playful.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
trueth is the brewers are having more fun.
The team who is running away with the division via a 26-9 stretch since the all star break is having a lot more fun than the team who is 17-17 and drifting further back from the playoffs.
Grit != flat out sucking.
they didn't seem very serious tonight
those dugout celebrations were downright nerdy
low in the zone
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 22, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if that had anything to do with the score of the game
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 22, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
And Albert's 4 hit night
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 22, 2011 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe they're loosening up
only to finish 2 games behind the wild card and the brewers, who end up having the same record. nooooooooooooooooooooo
low in the zone
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 22, 2011 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
meh, it's better than completely dicking out of it
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 22, 2011 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's how I would like to see this play out:
- Berkman makes Type A.
- Cardinals offer Berkman arbitration.
If he accepts:
- Great, we have our RF for next year!
- Shit….how do we afford both Berkman and Carpenter if we sign Pujols?
If he declines:
- Negotiate a deal no longer than 2 years and $12M AAV. If he wants more than that, let him walk.
- Hopefully by the time he declines arbitration, we know where we stand with Albert Pujols.
I’m hoping that the Cardinals just decide to pony up the money for Albert in October/November, make a last ditch effort to sign him, and if they can’t get it done then start planning for LAAP (Life After Albert Pujols). If he plays the market and doesn’t like what he sees (i.e. doesn’t want to play for $30M per season in Chicago or New York) then maybe we get back in the picture and payroll goes up for a couple of seasons.
I also think that the decision is actually going to come down to Berkman v. Carpenter, and I’d much rather have Carpenter next season than Berkman. I think Allen Craig can be a good LF (with Holliday moving to RF, which is what SHOULD happen), and I think that Carpenter is more likely to be worth more marginal WAR over who would likely replace him than Berkman would be over someone like Craig, or maybe a FA upgrade who would cost less.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It would be really cool if the Twins signed Fielder this offseason
Looking at their salary construction, it seems they could sign him to a mega deal without having to significantly raise payroll due to the money coming off the books. They stick him at first for 2-3 years (morneau to DH for the time being; he’s just so unreliable), then move him to DH once Mauer can’t catch anymore. I would pay to watch that team
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 8/17/11)
110 2/3IP, 122 K, 48 BB/HBP, 49 ER, 6 HR, 3.00 FIP
I would think that the Twins would be more apt to go after Jose Reyes
than Fielder.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
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