Lance Lynn: A History
The Cardinals have been stretched thin in the bullpen this year. With the utter meltdowns of both Ryan Franklin and Miguel Batista plus injuries to Bryan Augenstein and Eduardo Sanchez, pre-season depth on the right side of the bullpen quickly turned into a thin spot. The Cardinals recently augmented their pen with Lance Lynn who has appeared in 5 games but has been rather impressive. While Lynn was and likely will be in the future targeted as a starting rotation prospect, he's been an interesting arm out of the pen.
Lynn was drafted with the 39th overall selection in the 2008 draft, which was headlined by Brett Wallace now with the Houston Astros. Advertised as a big, durable, workhorse starting pitcher, Lynn was effective with the location and command of his pitches rather than any overpowering stuff. Baseball America's pre-draft comments on Lynn:
Lynn mixes all four pitches [fastball, slider, curveball, changeup] with command and pitchability, making him a safe bet to be a fourth or fifth starter and an innings-eater in the major leagues within a few years. Lynn was drafted by the Mariners in the sixth round of the 2005 draft and should improve on that this year. While never stellar, scouts are impressed with his undeniable track record of success.
And, true to form, Lynn moved quickly through the system finishing his draft season in Quad Cities after a stop in Batavia. The following year, he would rocket through three levels from Palm Beach all the way to Memphis. Lynn's results were always good but never great with a strikeout rate that generally resided somewhere in the 7K/9IP area and a walk rate about half of that. He generated a slightly above average number of groundballs for what can only be described as a thoroughly effective and mediocre set of results from a scouting perspective. That's not to say Lynn wasn't good, he was. But he was never great and he never flashed moments of being more than what he looked like at draft time: a back of the rotation starter.
At the end of 2009, I spent some time reviewing video of Lynn. Re-reading the section on his delivery, I don't see many of the same quirks from 2009 in his major league delivery. The hand no longer pushes the ball but acts as a more natural whip extension of his arm. He's better about focusing on the catcher's target as well. If these are small changes that the Cardinals have made to his delivery, I'm impressed.
The fastball from 2009 sat around 90mph (more on that in a moment) and would touch 92mph. He's always had two different varieties of his fastball (as most pitchers do) and the second features more movement to it. This may be an early iteration of the cut fastball that he currently throws. Lynn complemented that with a curveball and a changeup. While neither are what could be called plus pitches, the ability to throw them when and where he wants helps the pitches to be more effective.
2010 was an interesting year for Lynn. In the first half of the season, he was a mess. Battling some nagging minor injuries, he routinely got shelled allowing hits in bunches capped off by some big homeruns. Things started to change in the second half of the year climaxing with an incredible final minor league game. Lynn tossed 7 innings on September 10th against the Texas Rangers' AAA affiliate in Round Rock. Lynn would allow 3 hits and just 1 run while striking out 16. It had taken Lynn 5 games at the start of the season to reach 16 strikeouts. In the second half of the season, Lynn managed 3 separate double digit strikeout performances. Something was different.
In fact. Lynn had made some changes to his mechanics that led to a velocity game. Farm Director John Vuch shed some light on this earlier this year:
Since earlier in the year he would sit at 90 MPH with the occasional 92-93, the gain in velocity is significant, at least in terms of where he finished the season. Much of Lynn’s success stems from the deception in his delivery, which allows his fastball to "jump" out of his hand, making his fastball a swing and miss pitch.
Going from a 90mph fastball to a 92mph fastball is significant and it has changed the look of Lynn's arsenal. He's not just an average stuff control pitcher but has the ability to, on occasion, reach back for a 96mph strikeout fastball. Lynn will still focus on mixing his pitches and generating groundouts off his sinker but his fastball has taken an unexpected step forward with the mechanical tweaks.
Lynn has thrown 146 fastballs in the majors this year with an average velocity of 92.3 mph. He's supplemented that with a cut fastball, a curveball and a changeup. He's shown a nice tight release point which is critical to the deception of his offspeed pitches.

While Lynn has pitched just 16.1 innings in the majors so far, he's struck out a healthy 16 batters against 4 walks. The addition of a pitcher in the pen who can effectively pitch multiple innings with strikeout stuff and keep the club in close games has been a welcome addition to the team. Lynn's performance has to endear him to a managing group that may have openings in the 2012 rotation to fill. Lynn may also have made a case to be the first line of defense should a 2011 starter go down with an injury.
Lynn hasn't been with the organization for terribly long. In less than three years, he's gone from Batavia to the St. Louis bullpen and become an intriguing arm for future consideration.
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Lynn's only been in the system 3 years?
It feels like he’s been in the system for forever.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
it was a long three years
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
we had Wallace?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
He was drafted 25 spots ahead of Lynn and has been in four different orgs...
since.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
amazing that I've never heard that before.
/completely joking
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
If only there were an Uber-Cardinal named Ryan Greenelance
He’d be a fast, slick-fielding infielder who could hit with power from both sides of the plate and fill in as a pitcher with a 90 mph fastball.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
you sure that's uber? maybe it's ur
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I actually thought about that instead
I think either works.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
nonsense
Über-Cardinal would be like Jim Pujolenina or Stanlou Gibsmith
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I meant an uber-Cardinal for our current era
Combine a bunch of flawed players into one mega-player. Maybe “uber” and “ur” are both wrong.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
oh, so you're talking zombie cardinal
ur is more correct.
uber means it’s like, better the Albert.
voltron seems to be what you’re going for. but this is unrecognized by linguists, and stinks of mets fans.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
No, Ur has to do with origins
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
I don't really think either of them fit
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
not strictly
ur is Germanic, and means ‘thoroughly’, so while it is synonymous with ‘proto’, it also connotes something that is over-arcing and carries over to all of its subsequent elements.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Huh.
But it doesn’t come from German, it comes from ancient Sumeria, right? Anyway, I’ve never seen that usage, but I guess a bunch of German scholars probably adapted it in the first place, so I’ll concede that they have the right to use it that way. So maybe Ryan Greenelance is the “Zombie Red-bUrd”
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
no, Ur is a Sumerian city
the prefix ur is Germanic
UR HAF RITE
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
The Germans invented text speak.
now I know who to blame
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
not directly
/I don’t wanna die so young.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
the prefix ur
one would most likely come across it in any class that mentions Joseph Campbell and the hero’s quest. /on-topic!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Or the works of Stephen R Donaldson
But let’s not go there.
One could write a Danup-style literary exercise about the Cardinals in his style, but how to decide whom Stan the Man would rape?
/classless suggestion entirely drawn from SRD’s work…./
/sorry, it’s early/
YOG
dude.........
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Apologies
Stan would actually destroy Busch Stadium in an attempt to save baseball. Decades later, Albert Pujols, hailed as the new messiah, would join the Cardinals and meet JD Drew….
I will go back to getting ready for the Sunday 10AM “Busch Beer with Tony LaRussa” unintentionally hilarious talk show.
nice save.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
wow....
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
"Some things can be mended
…“I feel strong today!” said Duncan. His once-mighty shoulders flexed as he bent to his task.
LaRussa, his wife, beamed with silent pride….
…
…Pujols suddenly felt that he came from a very poor world indeed, where nobody knew or cared about healing broken right-handers.
— The Chronicles of ur-Cardinal Albert Pujols, Unbeliever (?)
I always assumed they were related
But I guess it’s just a coincidence
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
I think "Ur-Cardinal"
would be something like “Tipper O’Hornsby”
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Hell
with all this "highbrow " shit ya’ll been discussing. I’d settle for Ozark Ike, coming down from the mountains with his barefoot pregnate girlfriend and signing a million dollar contract and hitting a shitload of home runs to feed his family and leading a WS title this year
I'll bet Ozark Ike probably never listened to Wagner or read Nietzsche
Which is probably a good thing
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
The is such a thing as over-thinking something.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
"Over-thinking" is a good summation of German philosophy for the last few hundred years.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
heh.
My philosophy: Wake up, do what you have to do, go to sleep. And try not to f&%# up too bad in between the first and the last.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's some great Forsch-and-Nietzche content (Yes it exists)
to make up for my earlier transgressions:
http://cardboardgods.net/category/teams/houston-astros/ken-forsch/
Josh Wilker cracks me up.
YOG
That was pretty funny.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Nothing really explains
Why Topps published that card with Ken Forsch’s intense, mystical expression filling the frame. Well, maybe cheap sensimilla.
The author is a good writer. Here’s his piece on Bob Gibson, sentimental fave but absolutely worth reading:
… The dipping of his right shoulder creates the impression that Bob Gibson is actually teetering slightly to his right with the queasy yawing of the lopsided card. Bob Gibson’s expression, however, makes it clear that even if the whole goddamn world started flopping and flailing like a boated fish, Bob Gibson himself would not go down.
http://cardboardgods.net/category/teams/st-louis-cardinals/bob-gibson/
I like how you think.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope Colby reads existential philosophy for fun, just to fuck with y'all.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Man... I'm jess situated-in-an-outfielder's-existence, I guess.
I jess tried to put some good wood on the ball, wait for the right pitch… didn’t wanna get caught in no hermeneutic quandary.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
that's all he's sayin'
he just tones it down for the masses so it’s not so highfalutin’
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Jimmy the Cat might, might understand him if he really let loose
But the other TV and radio guys would be stumped. They’d think he was actually speaking German.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
"If you stare into the abyss, the abyss will stare back."
Why isn’t this a sports cliche? Seems as good a response as any when reporters are asking about a slump.
Is John Mabry still on the roster?
"It is what it is"
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
by mattybobo on Jul 3, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"In this game I guess existence just precedes essence."
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
by mattybobo on Jul 3, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're on a roll, bobo.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
the lack of amusing photo caption disappoints me.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
I find it both amusing and kind of annoying
that journalistic photo captions are written, apparently, as if the reader is an alien with no understanding of humanity, and the writer’s task is to describe as clearly, but also as briefly, as possible, with no prior context, what is going on.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
it is so it can be tagged.
so even someone looking up a microfiche catalog can find it. they had no other way of doing photo searches.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
So, what happened in the 'big inning' last night then?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Is StL the only ballclub with multiple Lances?
I can’t think of another team.
"Only time will tell if we stand the test of time."
Hoy el internet, mañana el mundo!
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Thats 'Comrade' Dierkes to you!
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Interesante
so in addition to signing Dewin Perez, we’ve also signed Venezuelan catcher Jose Godoy. Can’t wait to use a Waiting For Godot(y) reference.
by peppermartin on Jul 3, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Ahaha, now he's going to be one of my favorite prospects.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
go for it. we covered the never-ending match last year
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Seems like as the athletes grow and the rackets improve...
the should make the court larger.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
I'm about to cover it:
Holy cow, Djokovic has a return game.
The Roger Dean Project was swell while it lasted.
yeah, i was going to
but then my hangover decided to amp itself up and now i can’t string two coherent thoughts together.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
good to see rafa's turned up
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Even though he looks like your typical movie villain, I'm pulling for Djokovic
by peppermartin on Jul 3, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
That's the last and only time I'm actually typing "pulling for" anyone
don’t want to give anyone the wrong idea
by peppermartin on Jul 3, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm rooting for a 5-setter
I probably like Rafa more, but a Djokovic win makes the tennis landscape more interesting.
I like Djokovic because of, not in spite of, his movie villain looks.
Is John Mabry still on the roster?
I'm not Rafing.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
This was a nicely written post, AZ.
I had always heard about the velo jump, but didn’t know enough about who he was early on. That really was a dramatic increase. And having all four pitches come out of the same spot would make the batter’s job a real pain.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
yes, ma'am.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice article azru
we discussed Lynn’s velo jump last year but the part about a mechanics adjustment is new and interesting as it gives confidence that the velo increase is not a temporary thing.
I'm guessing that it's just a matter of time now until Lynn & McClellan switch roles?
Seems to be the obvious move right now
/que obvious Dan n'Al quote.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
if you must
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 3, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And bringing up
Ottavino to help as well. Kind of surprised me they went with Brandon Dickson first.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 3, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
It'd help if ottavino could throw more strikes
His fip and whip are terrible. Nothing is worse IMO than a reliever who can’t throw strikes. Dickson’s walk rate is about half of Ottavino’s. I used to be on the ottavino bandwagon until I saw him pitch. I just don’t think he’ll ever have enough control/command to be useful.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 3, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
stuff good
location bad
hope for better, but don’t expect it
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
a big part of his issues seem to be an inability to locate his spots against LHB
he really does have quite a pronounced split. I’m vaguely hopeful he could be a competent righty-specialist from the pen.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
2012 rotation:
Wainwright
Garcia
Lohse
Westbrook
Carpenter/Lynn/McClellan.
Lohse has a no-trade clause, Westbrook would be impossible to trade unless he finishes really strong and improves that K:BB. Seems pretty obvious that unless K-Mac is dominant in the second half, that he’ll just be battling to keep that spot in the rotation for the next 9 months. Personally, I think the experiment has ran its course. K-Mac can be a decent starter, but I don’t think he’s done anything to earn a permanent spot. The Cards should be open to acquiring starting pitching…or try to “salary dump” Westbrook onto anyone desperate enough to take the contract.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Its kinda got that Braden Looper feel to it.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
This applies to both K-Mac and Westbrook.
I just don’t think you can have 2 Loopers in a rotation with serious World Series aspirations.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Kmac' fip is 4.65
And Westbrook’s is 4.09. Westbrook’s xFip is 3.98. They are really not that similar and are expected to diverge further as the season goes along. Kmac is fungible at .1 war and westie is at .7 and trending in the right direction.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 3, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Personally...
I’d push for Shelby earlier. I’d have him finish this season at AAA and come in battling for a rotation spot in spring training.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
This is why I don't see Carpenter coming back...
Unless somehow we can move Westbrook or Lohse.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
as the season goes on
I’m getting more and more keen on trying to restructure his option from a 1yr/15m to something like 2/20m. Although, tbh, I don’t think 1/15 would be that bad either. That’s probably about his market rate, healthy, for a 1-year deal.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
If they want to keep his innings under 150...
why not give him another half dozen starts and bring him up to pitch out of the bullpen down the stretch? Then return him to the minors next year to start and keep him down until midseason again. That would total less than a year of service time.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
I don't think its that absolute.
If K-Mac starts stringing together some bad outings I can see them trying something different. ESPECIALLY if the bullpen is struggling. I don’t think its likely, but I don’t think you can just dismiss it as not even a possibility.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I see no reason why McCellan wont continue to pitch as well as
his 4.12 xFIP suggests that he will.
I also believe it is going to take a dramatic (franklin-ish) implosion for Tony and Duncan to pull the plug on their reliever-to-starter project after he has for the most part pitched well the first third of the season.
it certainly isn’t just a matter of time that they pull him and bring in a rookie with 16.1 innings pitched
Grit != flat out sucking.
xFIP assumes league average HR/FB,
which if you watch McClellan throwing 88 MPH meatballs like the one that Riggiano knocked out last night seems like a bit of a charitable assumption.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
SSS cherry picking bullshit warning.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
by hazel on Jul 3, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
huh?
Cherry picking what? Besides ERA, tRA, or FIP what other stat do you want to see?
The Zips project for the rest of the season? How is that a small sample size when we are talking about which picture to use for the rest of the season?
Ch
Grit != flat out sucking.
oose
Any stats you want a compare. Then make a case for Tony and Duncan to decide they were wrong and move Kyle back to the pen after all the work he put into moving into the rotation.
Grit != flat out sucking.
There's an argument that, if you're trying to predict future performance,
you should normalize or regress for things like batted ball rates (tRAr) and homerun rates (xFIP). None of FIP, ERA or tRA do that.
tRAr, xFIP
Lynn: 4.31, 2.97
McClellan: 4.67, 4.12
I think a better approach would be to take Marcels of their recent performances but Lynn complicates that by playing in the minors. Given the limits of translations, ZiPS strikes me as the most compelling argument but I think you can make a statistical case for Lynn and certainly a scouting case for Lynn.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
I think you can make a statistical case for Lynn
Disagree.
and certainly a scouting case for Lynn.
Agree.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I started with xFIP for KMAC
to show why Tony and Duncan wont remove him from the starting rotation for a rookie.
Hazel decided normalizing HRs for McClellan was a little generous. So I went with the just the standard tRA, FIP, and ERA. There is a .02 difference in his tRA and his tRAr. So it really don’t matter which you use.
I’m not cherry picking stats. It’s not a no brainer to move KMac to the pen and Lynn to the rotation. And even if it wasn’t as close, TLR will not do it unless KMac falls off a cliff. None of his stats suggests that he is going to fall of a cliff either.
If we want to talk about who is more likely to be in the starting rotation in 2012 or 2013, then sure, we can throw Lynn into the conversation.
Grit != flat out sucking.
back to the original point...
no one said it was a no brainer to move Lynn to the rotation. No one. Not once ever. Kyle could fall off a cliff. You can try to predict future performance all you want, but in the end its going to mean nothing versus actual performance. The point was if his future performance declines and the bullpen was still struggling, then a change could be made. Your point was basically…“there is no chance of this happening at all”. All I said was there is a scenario where it could play out, and I even stated that I didn’t think it was likely. You have no idea how Kyle is going to perform in the second half in his first season of starting and as much as you wanna use any number of various stats to try to say how he will….end result is the only thing that matters is his actual performance. If he gets rocked in 5 or 6 of his next 7 or 8 starts, I don’t think they’ll have much choice but to try something different
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
um
I’m guessing that it’s just a matter of time now until Lynn & McClellan switch roles?
Seems to be the obvious move right now
matter of time… seems to be the obvious move right now. Pretty much a synonym for no brainier.
VEB is normally pretty open to the idea of using statical analyst to predict future performance.
and to quote myself here…
I also believe it is going to take a dramatic (franklin-ish) implosion for Tony and Duncan to pull the plug on their reliever-to-starter project after he has for the most part pitched well the first third of the season.
So yeah, there is a chance. It will just take a pretty bad drop off of McClellan’s performance. And there is nothing in his career, or this just to assume that it will happen this year.
Grit != flat out sucking.
The more I think about it
the more I think that KMac should arguably be non-tendered next year. Either that or arby the guy and try to trade him to someone needing a 5th starter.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Assuming we make it to the post-season
I realize that technically you don’t need the entire rotation, sodo you see McClellan going to the bullpen?
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 3, 2011 10:59 AM EDT reply actions
Yes
There is no way McClellan ever starts a game in the playoffs unless the scheduled starter gets in a car wreck on the way to the stadium.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 3, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
CardsInsider STL Lineup at TB (7/3):
Theriot SS
Jay RF
Holliday LF
Berkman DH
Freese 3B
Rasmus CF
Molina C
Hamilton 1B
Schumaker 2B
Lohse RHP.
Hollidome back to patrol the OF, Berk to rest his weary paws, Ham Fighter takes his turn at first.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 3, 2011 11:06 AM EDT reply actions
i should dig up glossary techsupport for ham fighter
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This may be a more obscure reference than I originally thought.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 3, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I presume it's Jon Jay
Wife and i have taken to calling him MOJO JOJO!
11 in '11
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jul 3, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually that was stupid
I see now it’s Hamilton
11 in '11
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jul 3, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
We really need to start seeing a bit less of Skip, now that Freese is back.
I’m hoping once we get away from the interleague games he’s only going to be starting one out of every 3 games or so, but I think that’s probably a forlorn hope. He really isn’t one of the top 3 second basemen on the roster, and probably not even one of the top FOUR when Craig is back.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
we're frickin thundercats
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Trevor Rosenthal Update
5 2/3 IP, 3 ER, 3 H, 8 K, 0 BB, 2 HBP (including hitting someone in the head; all his HBP came around to score), 1 HR, 3:5 GO: AO
Rosenthal is weird for me. He has an 83:20 K:BB ratio, indicated adequate control, but he has also hit 11 batters this season. I don’t know if the reason he has not been called up is because the organization wants to work on him pitching inside, which has led to him hitting people, or what. His BABIP in QC is .321, so he’s not getting “lucky” though he does have a 69.2% LOB and only a .39 HR/9IP. Fact is, the guy is striking out 10.88/9 IP and has a 4.15 K/BB ratio. Not sure what else there is left for him to prove in low-A.
Full season stats in my signature
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/3/2011)
68 2/3 IP, 83 K, 31 BB/HBP, 26 ER, 3 HR, 2.70 FIP
Maybe Charlie Sheen can loan him his pitching glasses so that he can start winning
At baseball
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 3, 2011 11:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
ughhh
pitching wins
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/3/2011)
68 2/3 IP, 83 K, 31 BB/HBP, 26 ER, 3 HR, 2.70 FIP
As I think I mentioned on FR
it’s not so much a performance issue as a “space on rosters” issue. It’s tough to move him to PB without outright releasing one of the lesser guys on that team, and there’s arguably no-one there who really deserves that treatment. Once they elected to move up Martinez, I think it’s basically a case that Rosenthal has to wait for the next available roster slot in PB and then they’ll make the move.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Good to see this from you azru
I always thought you seemed to be a little hard on Lynn when he was coming up. I guess the tough love payed off
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/3/2011)
68 2/3 IP, 83 K, 31 BB/HBP, 26 ER, 3 HR, 2.70 FIP
I was never very high on him in the minors.
I’m cautiously optimistic at this point.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
According to Buster
3. The Padres are doing extensive scouting of the Cardinals’ farm system — among other teams — as they prepare for the trade season. All along, St. Louis has been a natural fit for Heath Bell or one of the other San Diego relievers.
Nor is giving them cheap, good relief pitching.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
I have zero desire for Heath Bell
The haul will be to much. He is a Type A free agent. So that means the Padre’s expect talent equal to two 1st round picks plus the value of Heath Bell for the rest of the season.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 3, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Holliday, Lee, and Sabathia all required
one first round talent, plus a 2-3 C-level prospects, and Bell is going to bring less than those guys.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
The two picks, though, have to be discounted
by whoever ends up with him: you have to offer arbitration and run the risk of its being accepted.
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
Bell is not accepting arbitration. 0% chance
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
not sure I agree with that
<50% chance, definitely, but I can see plenty of scenarios where he’d take arby. He’s getting quite old and would probably make $10m in arbitration. Whilst I think someone will probably offer him something like a 3yr/$25m deal, it’s not a foregone conclusion.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd prefer Matt Adams
If Salas falters in any way, I’d promptly put Adams in the closer’s role.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone play Football Manager 2011?
I really don’t know a whole lot about soccer. But I love games based upon being a GM of a sports franchise. It is on sale for only $10 on steam
they're fun games
and i wouldn’t say that an intensive knowledge of football is really needed, the game gives you a shitload of information on every player, in a variety of forms when you scout them, so you don’t need to know who’s who as it were. Its important to note that in these games you tend to GM and Bench manage not just GM though, so some strategy knowledge is needed.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
We think our manager is bunt happy...
Arizona-Oakland, top of the first inning, Bloomquist singles, Kelly Johnson singles, runners on first and second no out, Manager Gibson has Justin Upton bunt the runners over. Wow. How does this kind of managing exist?
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
That is fucking terrible
a third place hitter should literally never ever be bunting.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Article on Bunting in CWS
Sorry if I’m link-happy today. This was interesting:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/following-up-on-college-world-series-bunts/
YOG
All-Star Starters announced
National League:
C Brian McCann
1B Prince Fielder
2B Rickie Weeks
3B Placido Polanco
SS Jose Reyes
OF Ryan Braun
OF Lance Berkman
OF Matt Kemp
Third base is mind-bogglingly thin..
in the NL. Ryan Roberts and Chase Headley are the cream of the crop.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Has Zimmerman been injured?
what about Chipper?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Berkman over Holliday?
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 3, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The worst defensive outfield in ASG history...
and maybe the worst defensive team I’ve ever seen.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
This.
Literally…one above average defender? A handful of absolute butchers.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
Is McCann any good?
Polanco is ancient. And if Reyes can’t go, Tulowitzki? Too bad we can’t get Theriot in there to round things out.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
McCann sort of won the ASG last year
So, yes.
by cloistermaximus on Jul 3, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant defensively...
This NL lineup can hit the crap out of the ball, no doubt about that….
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
At 2B, yea
But he’s still pretty good at 3B
Could Colby Rasmus hit a ball so hard that even he couldn't catch it?
by Cardinals645 on Jul 3, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow I thought Yadi was hitting better...
Anybody want to tell me how a .283/.332/.406 line equates to a .316 wOBA??
I thought .332 was above average and .406 is about average yet his wOBA is considerably below league average.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
.316 wOBA is basically league average
hitting, league-wide, is down this year. .406 is a below-average SLG. Also, I think baserunning might be incorporated into wOBA (at least in terms of SB/CS and pickoffs etc) in FG, but not 100% sure.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
American League
C Alex Avila
1B Adrian Gonzalez
2B Robinson Cano
3B Alex Rodriguez
SS Derek Jeter
OF Jose Bautista
OF Curtis Granderson
OF Josh Hamilton
DH David Ortiz
Good for A-Gon
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 3, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Every year
He’ll win gold gloves too
2011 MLB All Star Game FanFest: July 8-12 at the Phoenix Convention Center!
by mtzxc on Jul 3, 2011 12:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So which Cardinals deserve to make the ASG and which ones will?
Seems like Molina, Berkman, and Holliday should. Garcia and Lohse are fringy.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Have they announced pitchers and reserves yet?
2011 MLB All Star Game FanFest: July 8-12 at the Phoenix Convention Center!
by mtzxc on Jul 3, 2011 12:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I have no idea...
the process associated with selecting all-stars – both starters and reserves – is something I can never fully understand or keep up with.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Holliday should be a lock.
Yadi likely. I don’t think Garcia or Lohse will make it.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 3, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
BJRains: Matt Holliday and Yadier Molina selected by the players.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 3, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, probably none deserve to make it
Holliday would’ve been a shoe-in if he’d not missed games, but I really think Braun has been better. Berkman really shouldn’t be that close if you factor in defense (but I can see the argument for him as DH, perhaps). Molina is currently 9th in the NL in catcher WAR.
Garcia should be in the rotation somewhere, but outside of him, no-one on our team has been that great. I can’t see an argument for Lohse being anywhere near the ASG.
We’ve had a lot of guys be quite good this year but, unusually for a “stars and scrubs” team, no-one that great. I don’t think anyone is on pace for 7 WAR.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
More National League
Pitchers:
SP Roy Halladay
SP Clayton Kershaw
SP Cole Hamels
SP Tim Lincecum
SP Jair Jurrjens
SP Matt Cain
SP Cliff Lee
SP Ryan Vogelsong
RP Jonny Venters
RP Joel Hanrahan
RP Heath Bell
RP Tyler Clippard
RP Brian Wilson
Reserves:
C Yadier Molina
1B Joey Votto
1B Gaby Sanchez
2B Brandon Phillips
3B Chipper Jones
SS Starlin Castro
SS Troy Tulowitzki
OF Justin Upton
OF Hunter Pence
OF Jay Bruce
OF Carlos Beltran
OF Matt Holliday
You can access the rest of the list here.
NL ASG Final Vote candidates:
right fielder Andre Ethier of the Dodgers
first baseman Todd Helton of the Rockies
pitcher Ian Kennedy of the D-backs
left fielder Michael Morse of the Nationals
center fielder Shane Victorino of the Phillies.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 3, 2011 12:45 PM EDT reply actions
AL
Royals left fielder Alex Gordon
Orioles center fielder Adam Jones
White Sox first baseman Paul Konerko
Tigers catcher Victor Martinez
Rays second baseman Ben Zobrist.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 3, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't believer Andrew McCutchen won't be an All-Star
He’s having an incredible year. Totally bogus.
Could Colby Rasmus hit a ball so hard that even he couldn't catch it?
by Cardinals645 on Jul 3, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the big oversight...
he’s easily better than Pence, Bruce, and Beltran. Braun looks to be injured, so maybe he’ll sneak on.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
That's a huge snub
Hanrahan has had a great year, but c’mon.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 3, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's like #2 in NL WAR
appalling snub.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
So Albert is in no way an All-star, correct?
Best player of this era gets 2 non-All Star seasons in his prime? What the fuck?!?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2011 12:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
If he wasn't hurt, I'm sure he would have been a reserve at the very least.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 3, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
He went from leading the vote
to not even being a selection unable to play due to injury.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2011 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He was hurt early enough in the voting for people to change their vote.
Also, people suck.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 3, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He went from leading the vote
to not even being a selection unable to play due to injury.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2011 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Put him at third...
the two third baseman on the team have wobas of 310 and 328
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Seriously tho,
the all-star game is a ridiculous farce. Tons of undeserving players have played while deserving players missed out. Derek fucking Jeter is in again despite being less valuable than Jake Westbrook. We can literally say, “Jake Westbrook is better than a guy in the all-star game”
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
i hadnt voted
and i deided to, but it was after he got hurt, so i didnt vote for a hurt guy
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
I believe...I could be wrong...
that this makes a total of 21 all-stars in the last 18 seasons for Pittsburgh. Some of the names include: Evan Meek, Zach Duke, Nate McClouth, Mike Williams, Ed Sprague, Tony Womack, and Carlos Garcia. Additionally Hanrahan is only the 4th different pitcher since Denny Neagle in ’95 to make it for them, joining Meek, Duke, and Williams.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That's right..
1 all-star pitcher in the last 16 seasons…and even that was just the required selection of 1 member of their team
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
holy crap..it gets worse..
since 1994 Pirates hitters have gone 4 for 22 (all singles, no walks, no RBI’s) and their pitchers have totalled 2 innings pitched (scoreless)
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
ASG Twit round-up
dgoold Waiting for totals but I bet Pujols received more votes than any Cardinal and more than any player not selected. Electoral college-like miss
dgoold Where is Andrew McCutchen? Serious snub with other OF picked for NL. #ASG #pirates #stlcards
BJRains At least two more NL pitchers will get selected…Both Hamels and Cain scheduled to pitch next Sunday, meaning they are ineligible to pitch.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
JAI-ME JAI-ME
"Hunter Pence out at home, catcher Gerald Laird. Three out." STL @ HOU, 4/28/11
by hr on Jul 3, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Kinda happy for Jaime not to make it really
Don’t really ever want our pitchers in the ASG; too much possibility for injury and/or arm fatigue in a largely meaningless game.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
last nights game
is to me is on TLR…when Kmac was obviously not the same guy in the 6th, and then just waiting to let him implode..
i mentioned it when it was happening and someone said pitch count yes it was low, but he was gassed..missing all over then loads bases, and went 3-0 i think to the batter that did the damage…
there has to be a line between confidence and * common sense*
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
If he had lifted him against Kotchman...
that would’ve been a very quick hook. We are carrying 13 pitchers though…
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
speaking of that....why is Brian Tallett still on the team?
..or Miller for that matter
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jul 3, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I know...
Lynn, Dickson, Tallet, Miller, Salas, Motte, Boggs, Valdes… I have a hard time believing all those guys are necessary.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Miller needs to be released.
The guy has totally lost it. Honestly, we might as well just see what Sam Freeman or someone can do, or try to pick up someone through a cheap trade. Mark Hendrickson is on a minor league deal with the Os. He wouldn’t cost anything. Career 3.71 FIP against lefties. Sucks but better than miller.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 3, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
IIRC
he didnt even get anybody loose…with two on that would have been a decent time…
I don’t know what the line is but there has to be one
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
That’s OK. Don’t link to the gamethread. See if I care.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
This is a really good, concise post Azru
so I rec’d it.
I’ve been relatively impressed with Lynn in the pen so far – wasn’t convinced his so-so control would hold up in the majors despite the “stuff” gains he seems to have made in the minors in the last year, but I think it’s equally possible he was just stagnating a bit at Memphis in his third partial season there. Hopefully he gets a shot as 5th starter next year, although as you say he offers a useful multiple-inning option in the pen, which I think they were trying to get Franklin to do before they released him. Lynn looks a definite upgrade.
Still bitching to contact.

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