Colby Rasmus and the Manager's Job
by DanUpBaby on Jul 28, 2011 8:00 AM EDT
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PrintThis trade is the direct result of Tony La Russa's failure to do his job.
I'm not saying Tony La Russa should be fired--baseball is a game where everybody fails 60% of the time etc. etc.--but Tony La Russa's failure is what led the Cardinals to make a trade that will, pending the players to be named later being named, almost certainly make them worse in 2012 and 2013.
Tony La Russa is a manager, and as we decide that more and more of the things for which a manager is explicitly and visibly responsible--lineups, pitcher moves, hit-and-runs and sacrifice bunts--are so much deck-chair redecoration the pre-John-McGraw definition of a manager as somebody who manages a bunch of baseball players and their personalities becomes more and more important.
Sometimes La Russa gets it right. Jim Edmonds, something of a clubhouse enigma before he arrived in St. Louis, put together a Hall of Fame peak after he turned 30; Chris Carpenter, with his paranoid on-field personality and perpetual intensity, seems to have been born to play under La Russa.
Sometimes La Russa gets it wrong but circumstances allow his team to extract sufficient value from the situation. Ray Lankford shouldn't have been pushed out of St. Louis when he was, but Woody Williams fit the team and Dave Duncan's gameplan and had a great career, while Lankford had already been pushed to left in favor of J.D. Drew. J.D. Drew shouldn't have become a Busch Stadium pariah, but he was about to be an expensive free agent and the Cardinals did get Jason Marquis and Adam Wainwright in the deal.
This time La Russa got it so wrong so consistently that the Cardinals have made themselves clearly worse when they had other, better options. He dogged Rasmus in 2010, when he was having a great year; he dogged him in 2011, when he was having an okay year; he forced Mozeliak's hand--for once this can be confirmed, or at least reasonably inferred--by making utterly inappropriate, inessential comments to the press about a player that was crucial to the team's long-term blueprints.
Colby Rasmus and Tony La Russa didn't get along, but it was La Russa's job--his most important job--to make sure that that didn't interfere with the Cardinals' success. He couldn't do it--didn't even seem to want to do it--and all the good work La Russa has done with a perpetually depleted roster in 2011 was wiped away with this one stubborn indiscretion.
As for the move itself, I'd rather have had one of the Rays' young, cost-controlled starters, but as win-now trades go it's got a certain unpleasant elegance to it, like a Bond villain who's a very charming ballroom dancer. Edwin Jackson replaces Kyle McClellan; Kyle McClellan, Octavio Dotel, and Marc Rzepczynski replace P.J. Walters, Brian Tallet, and Trever Miller. Corey Patterson--well, Corey Patterson is still a terrible baseball player, and should be replaced at the Cardinals' earliest convenience by a real fourth outfielder, ideally a right-handed one. (Yes: I realize that saying this out loud the day after the Rasmus trade is the Shane Robinson equivalent of shouting Beetlejuice three times without realizing the long-term ramifications.)
The Cardinals' pitching staff is considerably better than it was on Tuesday, and if Jay and Lance Berkman continue to pick up the slack the Cardinals just introduced into their own offense that should translate into a less frustrating 2011. But I'm not sure where the Cardinals saw the outfield depth that allowed them to make this move.
Behind Jay now are Adron Chambers and Daryl Jones, two toolsy outfield tweeners who have never shown off an obvious Major League-ready offensive skill, and behind them there's Tommy Pham, who can't stay healthy, and Oscar Taveras, who's incredibly exciting but also 19 years old. Behind Lance Berkman there's those same guys, Allen Craig, and any of the Cardinals' various hitting prospects and near-prospects playing out of position: Matt Carpenter? Mark Hamilton? Matt Adams? Zack Cox?
If Jon Jay and Lance Berkman aren't kind enough to remember they're having career years for the remainder of 2011 this is no longer an unequivocal upgrade, even in 2011.
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This trade is just awful.
Mo should be embarrassed.
Although I am excited to see Edwin Jackson’s first start, and see this Scrabble kid. Oh yeah, and not see Trever Miller come in to put guys on base.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Is there an overflow?
Help a brother out. I can’t even begin to open this thing today, internet is really dodgy for whatever reason.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 28, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
hit it dan
didn’t want to get along
tlr is a typical old man that forces management’s hand by putting an asset on the bench and letting it decay in value
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
Indeed
I like it when Dan gets down to business and says something harsh.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
mmm yeah, me too
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard to value a trade.....
When you don’t know what the return is just yet. If those 2-3 PTBNL, and/or compensatory picks turn out to be, say, top 15 prospects from day 1, I’d have to say we got good, or at least decent, value for Colby.
He didn’t fit. Everybody points at TLR, but I’m guessing he isn’t the only coach that had a problem with Colby. I have a hard time believing Big Mac and Andrete cared for him not listening, and the dad stuff. Albert spoke out against him last year. Albert NEVER does that. Like it or not, this club is built a certain way. That certain way has made us the class of the NL Central for the last what, 10 years? It works. Why is it such a big deal that Colby didn’t seem to fit?
I think this move DEFINITELY improves us for the rest of this year. I don’t think it makes us considerably worse over the next 3 years, but it might make us a little worse off. Depending on what Raz was going to get through arbitration though, those savings might be better spent elsewhere. The middle of our lineup will be fine in the upcoming years. I’m assuming we resign Albert. Holliday will follow him. I expect Berk to be back, and if not, or if injured, Craig can fill in. You guys LOVE Craig, no? Freese after that. And Yadi. That lineup is good enough, nearly regardless of who ever else we run out there. I’d like to upgrade SS next year, which I think we will. Our pitching should be much better going forward.
And as for the more distant future, lets wait and see what these PTBNL turn into. I have a feeling they are a bigger piece of the pie then we know.
the PTBNL are thought to be pretty unremarkable.
that’s just rumors of course…
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
From Rosenthal's story
The three players to be named? Don’t get too excited. They are not top prospects, according to a source.
Why would they be noteworthy?
They’re conditional on performance of the pitchers we got and cash might be subbed out instead.
DFA Patterson!!!
because this is blog to discuss things and names are things to discuss
by martimeryard on Jul 28, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd love to see the list too
I’m sure it is not going to be the D’Arnauds and Sniders and Drabeks of the world. I want to know what’s on it, not who’s off it.
If you know that it's three C grade prospects...
and you know what C grade prospects are worth, what does it matter who’s on it? Unless you’re some kind of Jays prospect maven with inside dirt on who the sleepers are, the important information is that the players are C grade prospects.
DFA Patterson!!!
we don't know that it's three C grade prospects
we know “according to a source” that the prospects are “not remarkable”.
by martimeryard on Jul 28, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
FYI
When a source familiar with farm systems says “not remarkable” they aren’t fucking talking about B prospects.
They’re talking about C level prospects, and those are guys who generally have a lot of flaws. Can they be salvaged? Absolutely, look at Matt Adams. But, for the most part, they are depth filler for your farm system.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
The article doesn't specify
whether or not the source is familiar with farm systems. I’m willing to bet that the prospects are C level, but the info from the article says nothing of the sort.
by martimeryard on Jul 28, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Would a team give up 3 B prospects
as PTBNL? No, they wouldn’t.
I mean, c’mon dude. Toronto has one of the best young GM’s in the game — he’s not going to give us anybody with potential.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
doesn't Mo get to argue who's on the list beforehand?
Why bother with the PTBNL if they’re all garbage? Just take the cash.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Because you want to see if one of them breaks out between now and the deadline
And if none of them do, then like you said, cash it is.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
Because...
…the list of PTBNL could contain names from last years draft that have not been in the organization for a full year and cannot currently be traded. Frankly there are some really intriguing names in the Jays system even in the B-/C+ range and currently I trust our player development side of the front office a hell of a lot more than the GM to make good decisions. Cleto last year looked like a shot in the dark and he has shot to AAA after struggling with the Padres. People were down on Freese after the Edmonds trade because he was “too old for his level” and he has done fine. If there is talent to be mined there they will find it.
by BigJawnMize on Jul 28, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I would guess that we end up getting cash.
Which makes all this stupid arguing worthless.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
That is
what I am afraid of…this whole conversation actually makes me really sad. I find myself trying to defend Mo because I need something to root for in the organization. Tony year after year makes this team less enjoyable for me—I have been fan since birth and even in the Dal Maxvill era I never felt lower about the team. It is like there is a sucking sound in the dugout that takes all the fun out of watching the Cardinals. All the really charasmatic fun players that I have rooted for have left since Tony’s arrival. Ozzie doesnt even want to be a part of the organization as long as Tony is here—how fucking sad it that.
by BigJawnMize on Jul 28, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
this
and the really terrible part is all the really stupid fans that think that just because he’s won all the games he has(most have no idea that he has lost almost as many) and been a manager for 30 years that he is unassailable. Here’s to hoping that he disappears after this season.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 28, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of which - anyone know much about these prospects or their potentials?
Hitters (Name – Position – location)
Jorge Vega-Rosado – SS/2B – rookie ball
Marcus Knecht – OF – A ball
Jake Marisnick – OF – A ball
Michael Crouse – OF – A ball
Kevin Nolan – SS/IF – high A ball
Pitchers (Name – position – location)
Nestor Molina – RH reliever – high A ball
Randal Thompson – RH reliever – rookie ball
Danny Barnes – RH reliever – A ball
Justin Nicolino – LH starter – low A ball
Luis Zerpa – RH reliever – Dominican league ball
Sean Nolin – LH starter – A ball
Philip Brua – RH reliever – low A ball
Drew Hutchison – RH reliever – high A ball
Colby Broussard – RH reliever – rookie ball
Drew Hutchison, eh?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
So that's probably not possible to attain...
What would be realistic? Are 3 players on this list possible?
Is that the list of potential PTBNL's?
If so, I’m thinking Hutchison or Marisnick are the names that jump out at me, though I would have to check and see if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. I think Knecht might be good.
I’m not overly familiar with the Jays’ farm system.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I did a lot of perusing late last night for their farm system
I posted who I thought were the best players of that list above.
If we got Knecht and a bag of sausages for the man stew that would make me feel a little better, I think he’s got legit power.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
True.
If the PTBNLs are actually of that kind of quality, then the calculus does change some. I doubt any of those guys are on there, though, unfortunately. Fingers crossed, I suppose.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Marisnick is who I think he is.
If he’s available I would definitely like to see him. He’d be a good pull.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I mentioned Marisnick and Hutchison yesterday.
It’d be great if we got that quality of PTBNL.
I think the chances of that, however, are very, very, very low.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Marisnick and Hutchison will not be on the list
Nor will Knecht, Molina, Nolin or Nicolino. Those guys are some of the Jays’ best prospects at those levels. Hutchison and Molina are starting pitchers and are the two best starters at Dunedin. Marisnick, Knecht and Nicolino were all taken in Round 3 or earlier of the draft. Those guys don’t become PTBNLs. Hutchison made Keith Law’s midseason top 50.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
someone over at BBB is kind enough to put the list up and their prospective availability for PTBNL
here it is
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
that's just that persons opinion, correct?
It may be very accurate and I don’t expect a lot in that way of prospects back as the PTBNLs, but there hasn’t been an official list released, has there? (such lists are rarely made public are they?)
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 28, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Because top prospects are the only ones ever to pan out
The following Cardinals have been worth at least 1 WAR this year on B-R.
Holliday – 7th round
Berkman – 1st round
Pujols – 13th round
Molina – 4th round
Craig – 8th round
Descalso – 3rd round
Punto – 21st round
Rasmus – 1st round
Lohse – 29th round
Carpenter – 1st round
Garcia – 22nd round
Salas – purchased from Mexican league
Sanchez – amateur free agent.
Out of those 13 players, only 5 were in the first 5 rounds of the entry draft.
Becoming a top prospect is usually based more on minor-league production than draft round.
A lot of the players you listed were on top prospect lists as recently as last year.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
By definition...
minor league players that aren’t top prospects are less valuable than top prospects.
DFA Patterson!!!
You're confusing
“low draft pick” with “top prospect”. They’re not the same thing.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How do we know who will turn into a top prospect in the future then?
I know we’re not going to get one of their 4 guys who have been in BA’s top 100 for 2011. If that’s how we’re going to evaluate the players, they have to be a BA top 100, then this trade will be a failure in everyone’s minds.
If we get a guy or two or three who can steadily move up the charts in our own organization, then the trade can still be a win-win deal, which is what I expect this one to be.
You can expect that all you like.
I happen to disagree.
What I was pointing out, however, is that you posted a big line of names and draft rounds that proved one thing and one thing only, and that’s that you have the capacity to type both names and numbers in a box.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The sig makes this.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I didn't
realize the trade was so bad that we have to resort to snarky comments.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
how is that snarky?
He just typed a list of players and were they were drafted. What does that prove?
The point behind the list of players was that
We can’t know what a “top prospect” really is. Albert Pujols was thought to be the fat kid with no position. Now he’s the best right handed hitter of our generation and possibly the entire history of baseball. Matt Holliday was passed on 180-240 times (depending on the amount of compensatory picks that year and how late in the 7th round he went). If he were such a “top prospect” then why the hell wouldn’t the Cardinals have just taken him with their first pick that year?
the baseball draft doesn't work like other drafts
high school players have leverage of going to college. a lot of super talented high school players fall deeper into drafts for that reason.
you are missing the point
Albert Pujols within a year after being drafted was a top 10 prospect in the organization. He was a top prospect! Matt Holliday was drafted lower in the draft because his dad is a college coach and he was thought to be unsignable. Within a year of being drafted he was a top prospect! Players become top prospects based on tools and performance.
And guess what, we apparently aren’t getting Toronto’s top prospects in this deal according to published accounts.
Colby
was a top prospect. But apparently he hasn’t put it all together yet. So a C-level prospect can’t turn into an A?
This is straw grasping at it’s finest. You don’t like the trade so any value we get back automatically sucks.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
this is a shitty argument
sure, a nobody can turn into a star, but it’s not likely. that’s why they’re C prospects. how are you not grasping this?
by prophetjohn on Jul 28, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
what am I arguing about again?
I seem to get lost in the finger pointing, name calling again. We lost the trade. get over it. try to find the positives.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
I think it's great that the people who regularly pimp scouts here
are now disparaging what scouts say about the players involved in this trade.
The irony is incredible.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
I don't believe
I’ve said anything about this trade regarding perceptions of scouts or anybody for that matter. People on this site are pissed. Pissed off so much it’s getting annoying. What are you gonna do? Get in your time machine and fix it? So rather than bitch and moan about the potential of Colby Rasmus, there are a select few who are trying to make points about the new guys and the 2011 team. Trust me I get it, it sucks, but bitching about it isn’t going to fix it.
FIRE TONY LARUSSA!! What did that do?
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
This is a defeatist attitude
Sorry, there’s a grieving process here. Hell, I’m still grieving over giving up Dan Haren half a decade ago.
I don’t like trying to polish a turd, which is what you are doing when you look at this deal optimistically.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 28, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
I’m defeatist. I don’t watch the Cardinals team that never was.
Problem is if your given a turd, you got make the most out of it. I’d rather make it shiny. Mythbuster shiny!
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
I forgot that we're only allowed to have discussions
about stuff we actually control with the Caridnals. Ok, here I go.
[crickets]
Your turn.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
by azruavatar on Jul 28, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I've had a part in drafting two of the players in our minor league system!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I figured
over 4000 comments would turn this into dead horse material. I’m wrong.
I guess I’m just tired of the
Fuck TLR
Fuck MO
Fuck Corey Patterson
Fuck EJ
WTF?
Fuck Fuckety FUCK FUCK FUCK!
Some cope better than others I suppose. I’ll probably cry later in the week. I just feel stlfan was getting piled on for not having groupthink.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
by OKCardsfan on Jul 28, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But seriously Corey Patterson is terrible
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
He sucks
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
I mean, if the choice was between
having Corey Patterson on my team or contracting leprosy, well I’d take Patterson, but I wouldn’t be happy about it.
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
you got fleeced
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe tomorrow we should take a page out of
STL Game Time’s playbook and have an “eff you Friday” thread…
Also, I would hardly single you out with the comment I posted.
There’s a nice swatch of people on the board defending the trade that could be characterized by my statement.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
I think defend
is the wrong word. More like well it sucks so lets see what we got here. Oh you traded your porche for a ford focus and 3 kias? did they come with a warranty? no? okay well are they fast? no? okay well do they get good gas mileage? sort of? okay well thats a start! you gave up your porche why again? you know cause they are kias and stuff.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
by OKCardsfan on Jul 28, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
fwiw i'm with you on this
i obviously hate the trade, but i’ve moved on from anger to try to glean anything positive that i can. there’s no point in dwelling indefinitely on things we can’t change. not saying that we shouldn’t be talking about it, just that there are also other things to talk about that might help us feel a little better.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
i don't know
i hate this trade far too much to think rationally about it. it’s depressing enough that colby is gone. but we also live in a world where our gm made that trade. that fact alone is what kills me the most.
Yes we do
“Top prospects” (A prospects) are players who have high skill levels for their tools. (Shelby Miller, Colby Rasmus)
“Middling prospects” (B prospects) are players with tools but few polished skills or players who have polished skills but play a position where those skills don’t play well at the major league level (Daryl Jones, Oscar Taveras, Matt Carpenter)
“Prospects” (C prospects) are players who have a lot of flaws but usually have one or two great tools that have not yet developed into skills or are positionally limited, and therefore have limited potential (Matt Adams, Mark Hamilton, Joe Kelly)
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think Matt Adams hits so fucking well he might actually be a B prospect
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
so we're getting worse than Matt Adams. awesome.
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
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by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
haha
Well, if you consider that two random schmucks on a blog like Matt Adams enough that we think he SHOULD be a B prospect, and in turn that the Blue Jays would think that, and in turn think that the Blue Jays won’t give up a marginal B prospect – then yes?
Meh...not sure about that
But you know this already.
Positionally limited, below average plate discipline, dropping a huge offensive season in a park where he should drop a huge offensive season.
He might be a B-, but a solid B? That’s a stretch I think.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
According to statcorner, he's got a .406 wOBAr, which adjusts for home park and batted ball rates
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
If Pujols leaves
he could be a viable option in the future if that kind of raking continues at AAA next year.
I have no idea where this comment came from
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
You know exactly where it came from.
Adams is not likely to have much trade value due to his positional inflexibility, so his value to us as a club will come from his play, but the only way he gets to play is if Albert Pujols is not here.
I’ve not seen a lot of scouts that really like Matt Adams, regardless of what the rate stats say. I’m a pretty big believer that ONE scout should be impressed with you before I got rating you as a solid B prospect.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Kevin Goldstein has said that Adams will probably make his Top 100, FWIW
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I think you are giving people far too much hope by labeling
Matt Adams and Joe Kelly as the sort of “C”-level prospects that might come back as the PTBNL’s in this deal. (I actually think both those guys are B-, FWIW, but that’s not my point)
IMO, we’re not getting anything close to that level of player. I’m thinking more like guys who are barely cracking top 50 in the Blue Jays system.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
No, we aren't
I’m just trying to point out players that people know who fall into those categories.
I’d be shocked if got more than one C grade prospect back. My guess is that we’ll be getting cash.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
do those types even really ever get traded?
I mean, what’s the point? I’m trying to come up with top 40-50 guys in the Cards system… Nick Additon? Seth Blair?
Yeah, what's the point, is right.
How about Nick Greenwood – remember him from the Ludwick trade? Scott Schneider types (sorry, Scott).
Your’e thinking way too high in saying Seth Blair. Maybe Nick Additon.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
To further on stlfans position
I find it difficult to project the future when it hasn’t been written yet and we don’t have all the information. The trade isn’t comlete yet. 3 PTBNL’s, potential sandwich picks. But I get it. The trade sucks.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
The fact that so much of it is up in the air is part of why it's so crappy.
The gamble that this trade was worth it is on multiple fronts, and unlikely to work our on all of them. This level of uncertainty for this player is really shitty.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
many eggs were broken.
but the omelet isn’t anywhere near in sight.
that’s a problem.
FIRE TLR
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 28, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
So had we signed Austin Wilson, a projected 1st round talent
who we took in what, the 12th or 13th round last year, he would have been considered less of a prospect?
by stxcardsfan on Jul 28, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Albert spoke out against Colby under a misconception
he retracted his statements when he learned the facts. How much better does this move make us this year? 1 win? 2 wins? Is that worth the long-term value we’re giving up?
3 years from now, I have an awful feeling that we’re going to watch Colby emerge as one of the most polished and effective CFs in the game….for another team.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
But would Colby do that here?
Or would Colby, in this environment, still be a 2-4 WAR player for the next 4 years? Hell, he might not get to 2 WAR this year, depending on how well he finishes and which WAR you go by.
I do realize the value of a cost-controlled 2-4 WAR player, but when that player is a malcontent, is it worth it?
Yawn.
What a tired argument. He was worth >4 fWAR in 2010. The only person that down plays Colby’s upside is Tony LaRussa.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
I can cherry pick best seasons too.
However, in 2 of his 3 seasons here, he has been worth 4.2 WAR total. In the other year he was worth 4.3 WAR total. Which Colby Rasmus will show up? Will he be the 2.8 WAR player he was in 2009? Will he be the 4.3 WAR player of 2010? Will he be the <2 WAR player of 2011? Who knows? When his effort with the staff is basically non-existent and he is not stabilizing as a baseball player – quite possibly because of this – then I see a problem with the player, not the coaching staff.
haha...cherry pick his best seasons?
he has less than three full years in the pros. I think that’s the big point here. How in the living fuck do you write him off already, especially when he’s showed such promise. Can somebody please post the chart showing how Colby’s numbers in his first few years compare favorably with some of the true greats?
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Jul 28, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand all of that.
I really do. I just believe that placing 100% blame on the manager for players not listening is ridiculous.
it's a functional 100% blame, not a literal 100% blame
of course Colby shares part of the blame, but ultimately it rests with Tony because that’s part and parcel of being a manager. When some big fuck up happens in a company, the CEO shoulders the blame. Not because he (or she!) necessarily had a part in it, but because keeping shit in order and preventing stuff like that is part of the CEO’s job. Here, of course, it is even more justified to put the blame on Tony, because he actually did have a huge hand in it.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
Ideally
That’s not how it usually translates out. Usually it’s the blue collar bottom tier that goes by the wayside.
Even when the blue collar employees
are set to be making more than middle management within the year?
numbers didnt tell the whole story here
seriously, cant anyone reply without the F word?
it doesnt make your opinion any more valid because you can put in the F word, it just makes people more likely to think youre a tool
and secondly, he has regressed, you post his charts with some greats and ill post his zone ratings, and horrible defensive ratings…the guy cannot go back on the ball….
he strikes out too much, is too inconsistent and he also wont listen to the coaches…and thats from multiple sources…
he wouldnt have flourished here and he was losing ground…
i prefer the tampa trade by far, and i prefer when we can debate the merits of our arguments like grown ups
Come on 2009!
Consistency is not a desirable trait in a hitter
He was getting unlucky on balls in play
He was still worth 1.4 WAR despite a 2 month long slumb
etc.etc.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
defense matters
how many misplayed balls, bad angles, balls over his head did he allow?
he was the centerfielder….defense is a premium there
Come on 2009!
Sure, he could've been better on defense
Still a net positive asset for the team
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
defense is one of this teams biggest problems
we should have gotten a better deal for him, but he wasnt getting any better…his defense had a taken a big step backwards this year….and we have a pitch to contact staff
hes a minus 12 defender in center this year, jay mans the position much better
Come on 2009!
Him and Berkman have more than hit enough to justify their defensive shortcomings.
The shortstop on the other hand…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i'm sorry, but this is a silly comment
jay mans the position much better
you are judging this in a similar way to how people used to judge defensive based on old-fashioned metrics. Jay doesn’t make glaring errors in CF, typically. you do not realize how much you are missing defensively when Jay plays the outfield because A. he has not played CF that much and B. because he looks very good on the balls he gets to. Colby Rasmus is a better defensive center fielder than Jon Jay, and i personally don’t think it’s close.
also, citing that -12 number is relatively meaningless, as you will learn if you read many of the past UZR conversations we have had here before.
DFA Corey Patterson
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
He was worth 2.6 WAR at some point this season IIRC
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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As I always say, the problem with Colby Rasmus is his inconsistency. If he would remain consistent, everything else would fall into place. A consistent consistency is the most difficult part of being consistent. Keeping your consistency consistent is something I’ve dubbed consistinency.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
by il rosso on Jul 28, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Why is listening to Tony's coaches a guaranteed remedy of Colby's alleged woes?
Did Kip Wells not listen enough?
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
actually wells and marquis
wouldnt listen…you should have fact checked that one
and hes an employee, if your boss tells you to go into the cage with aldrete and mcgwire, thats your job
your dad can coach you at home
hes still an employee with a job he wouldnt do
i would fire him if he were under me at work if i coached him and he didnt listen
Come on 2009!
was Holliday listening when he went back to the leg kick?
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
if you are going to do it your own way
you better produce, thats the people who get left alone…the ones who actually produce on their own
he was regressing…and not listening
Come on 2009!
benstl for manager!
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
3-WAR center fielders are a bit more difficult to replace than office workers or manual laborers.
The problem that I have with La Russa is his “my way or the highway” mindset and the way he undermines his boss—the GM—by publicly criticizing players. If I were the owner, I’d have instructed the GM to fire La Russa years ago for taking intra-organizational matters public in the press. It’s unacceptable.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 28, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
im not a larussa lover either
ive hated to watch how rolen, ozzie, edmonds to a smaller extent and now rasmus have had to leave
but im not crying for colby, he had a lot to do in making this bed too
ill stand by my defensive issues with him on a pitch to contact staff, his issues with listening to his employer and he was regressing here
if larussa isnt leaving, he had to go to flourish, but we chose the wrong deal…
Come on 2009!
didn't larussa say no organization would pick a manager over a player?
then why is he the one staying?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
the defensive issues you speak of are not really particularly a problem on this team
as we get an ASSLOAD of GROUND BALLS, yet continue to trot out probably the worst shortstop in the major leagues nearly nightly.
DFA Corey Patterson
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
all these elipses are making me nervous
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
he's actually quoting TLR's last words
before he eventually nodded off in the middle of the intersection.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree totally
on the F word point.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
When his effort with the staff is basically non-existent and he is not stabilizing as a baseball player
Only one person, TLR, has said his effort with the staff was non-existent.
And “stabilizing” is just code for consistency, which doesn’t matter as long as the player produces as the end result. TONS of players have up and down values from year to year. That’s a bogus argument.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Yeah, consistency isn't actually particularly desirable for a baseball player (on offense)
Team offenses are, in and of themselves, so inconsistent that it doesn’t matter WHEN a player gets his hits
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I am not sure I agree, probably because I don't quite follow your argument
To me, consistency is not binary. Consistency is a factor in determining the expected value of runs per game, thus related to the number of wins. Runs are produced by a series of productive PAs.
In terms of Colby, I have no problems with one extra-streaky hitter on the team as long as it is balanced by others. His good streaks were really really good with Pop that Jay’s lacking.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
But does the distribution of the productive PAs matter?
Does it matter if they have 10 pretty-good PAs or 5 terrible ones or 5 awesome ones?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I would think so. If we want the hits/BBs to overlap in a series
then wouldn’t a less peaked distribution be better? I am assuming that we want to optimize the number of runs/inning?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
But the expected number of runs scored wouldn't change, right?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Maybe I am not getting this. Let's think about easy
hypotheticals that my brain can somewhat handle. And assume the consistency is of the entire team. A team that bunches all the runs once every 10 games is bound to do much worse than spreading those runs among multiple games. I think we can actually prove this formally by: 1. enumerating possible outcomes and computing the expected value or 2. do simulations.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
I think I see Rui's point here
(he’s stated this many times) but I think the better way to express it is:
“Inconsistency isn’t particularly undesirable for a baseball player on offense”
I don’t think anyone would complain if a player CONSISTENTLY hit .320/.350/.550. That, most definitely, would be desirable. But, it isn’t much of a detriment if he achieves those same year end numbers but with the normal peaks and valleys throughout the year.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 28, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Are we talking about year-to-year inconsistency?
I thought we were talking more about inconsistency within a season, which is hard to measure or prove in the first place. The former would be kind of alarming, the latter could just be streakiness or luck or what have you.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Couldn't there be some semi-adequate surrogates for consistency?
What would be the problems of using some sort of measure for offense/game? e.g. OPS/game. Then plot the distribution.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
I was talking about within a season
My only point is that Rui keeps saying (paraphrasing): Offensive consistency isn’t particularly desirable. while I think what he means is: Offensive inconsistency isn’t particularly undesirable.
I mostly agree with the point that consistency, in an of itself, is not a major factor in the “goodness” of a player’s hitting. i.s. if his line is .320/.350/.550 from day 1 to 162 vs. having ups and downs during the year.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 28, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
No disagreement about your 2nd paragraph.
My poorly made point was a preference for a more consistent offense given the same totals.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
This is true....
however, you’d be much more likely to find a player that could consistently hit .290/.370/.550 than one that hits .320/.350/.550 because the former line tends to be easier to achieve on a consistent basis due to the fact that players with good plate discipline generally don’t see that plate discipline go up and down like players with good batting average do.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Basically my point is
Even if every single player on your offense was a “consistent” player, the offense as a whole would be inconsistent, and would go through peaks and valleys. Therefore, what’s the point of having a “consistent” player?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I think this is the genius of acquiring players with high walk rates though, don't you?
Plate discipline doesn’t seem to have the peaks and valleys of other levels of performance.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Why would the offense be inconsistent if you had a bunch of consistent players?
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, Tony is the only guy on the staff who you should hear things like that from
It’s not the hitting coach’s, bench coach’s, or any other coach’s place to be discussing such things with the media. They’re paid to do their job and not deal with media. Also, it’s not the players’ place to do that either. Hell, it wasn’t even really LaRussa’s place to make the comments to the media that he did, but he did. I’m not defending the move that was made, I’m giving you a reason why others may have not publicly come out against Colby… because it’s not their place to do so.
by stxcardsfan on Jul 28, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I would argue that it's not really Tony's job either
He needs to keep his dirty laundry the hell out of the media.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
He's averaged about 3 WAR per season for his career
He’s 24, and has massive upside still.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Why?
No one professionally associated with baseball is downplaying his upside. No one.
I’ve yet to see anyone provide any actual substance behind this argument either. Instead, it’s just laid out there with the expectation that others will prove the negative.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
+1
In fact, judging by the reaction of the national writers (not the cloistered STL press who views their main job to be cheerleading for TLR) this trade is being dissed big time.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/trade-reaction-rasmus-jackson-white-sox.html
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
It really hurt to read those.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
his BABIP was .60 points higher than his career average
It didn’t fit his batted ball profile either. Signs point to that being an extremely lucky year. If he’s going to acquire that much WAR in a single season again, he’s going to have to do something different than he did that year.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Like hit for more power (which scouts project him to do)
or
Have great plate discipline (which he showed throughout the minors)
Rasmus is 24. He’s on the upswing of his aging curve. Predictions that don’t include some natural age related improvements are ignoring a lot of age related research.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
I don't see him improving his walk rate of 11.8% last year
Not striking out as much would help.
I dunno about the power though. 25-30 Seems like the ceiling for him. Are scouts projecting him to hit more than that?
Grit != flat out sucking.
He hit 23 in 534 plate appearances as a 23 year old in a pitcher's park...
given that power usually develops more slowly than the other tools, predicting a 25-30 HR ceiling is a little silly. He would’ve hit that last year if he had played a full season.
DFA Patterson!!!
Players with 680+ PAs under LaRussa this decade
2010:
Pujols 700
2009:
Pujols 700
2008:
N/A
2007:
N/A
2006:
N/A
2005:
Eckstein 713
Pujols 700
2004:
Pujols 692
2003:
Pujols 685
2002:
Vina 695
2001:
Vina 690
Colby got as fair a chance as everyone else on the team.
Holliday got 675 last year...
I don’t see why Rasmus couldn’t play as often as Holliday and Pujols. If he had in 2010, he would’ve hit more home runs.
DFA Patterson!!!
he might have, yes
or he might have tired out or fallen into a slump and dropped 50 points of OPS over those last 125-150 PAs.
or he could have hit .600 the rest of the way
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
yet
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
he sat against
lefties, holliday hits righties well so he gets more at bats
plus colby had the stomach issues and also was “mentally” fatigued….
Come on 2009!
i'd be mentally fatigued and have stomach issues
too, if my manager was tony la russa.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
wouldn't we all
Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Mark Twain
cant argue with that
but the lefties thing is valid, he was terrible against them
so he wouldnt get holliday or pujols at bats
Come on 2009!
Perhaps because he wasn't seeing them.
He was fine against them in the minors.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
so was ankiel
Minor League lefties aren’t major league lefties. If you can throw a ball 90+ Mph you have a job in the minors.
Tony’s usage of rasmus was fine last year. He had 131 PAs against lefties compared to 403 against right handers. So just over 1/5th of his PAs were against lefties.
Albert Pujols, a right handed hitter who kills lefties, had 190 PAs against lefties. So about 60 more.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Ankiel OPSd .452 against lefties last year. Rasmus was .810
And it’s .602 v. .825 this year.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
Rasmus OPS'd .810 against lefties in 2010
and .825 this year.
Are we talking about the same player?
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
by Alxfritz on Jul 28, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no
we’re talking about the mirage of Colby Rasmus, the guy who can’t get along with anyone, can’t play defense, and can’t hit lefties.
DFA Corey Patterson
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
So it's impossible for young players to improve eh?
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, he'll improve all right
The problem is he’ll improve to replacement level.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Well sure
But generally you want players that are improving to better than replacement level not below replacement level.
Ryan Jackson should improve too, the question is whether he’ll improve his offense enough to be able to be a replacement level player in the majors.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Larussa never really downplayed his upside
As a matter of fact all year he’s been saying how great Colby could become. He’s been taking a lot of shots at where Colby is getting his instruction and I think it was wearing on Larussa and the rest of the staff that they could not get through to him.
by lopey986 on Jul 28, 2011 9:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
it's their job to find a way to get through him
that’s just poor people and managerial skills
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
All along it just looked like a ploy
He didn’t want to look like an evil, bad guy to the fans, so he said nice things to help cover up the distasteful things that he wanted to say. He did the same thing with Brendan Ryan and Scott Rolen.
by stxcardsfan on Jul 28, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
he does have a law degree you know...
he’s a silver tongued devil
by stxcardsfan on Jul 28, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
i would add the only person that
downplays downplayed Colbys current production is TLR.
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
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by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
It's no one elses responsibility to do so
Mo and LaRussa are the only guys in the organization who should be commenting on things of this nature to the media… LaRussa was wrong to publicly make an issue of it, but he did it (as he’s done before, which is wrong)
by stxcardsfan on Jul 28, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Whether or not Colby fulfilled his potential here or not
he was cost-controlled, talented, young CF with an incredibly high ceiling. That is a very valuable commodity to a baseball team. A decent, rental SP, a left-handed reliever (possible starter), Corey Patterson(!), and unremarkable minor-leaguers is NOT adequate value for what we had.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
And Danup is right that this could cost us wins this year if one of our outfielders gets injured
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
that could be said if albert gets hurt
depth isn’t easy to have.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
We had it in the OF
Now we don’t have it anymore.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
right, I'm just trying to say
most teams deal from depth, that’s why it’s hard to have.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
People I think
are forgetting that Allen Craig should be back Monday. Depth problem solved. Crises averted.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
Our backup center fielder is Corey Patterson
His career OBP is below .300.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
someone needs to teach him how to lean in
set him up some time in the cage to practice getting HBP
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
aaron luna - temporary hitting/plate appearance coach?
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
Or Schumaker
Not too excited about that either, but more excited about getting him out of the infield than playing Patterson.
no, we had depth
and we had a volatile outfield in terms of injury.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember all the at bats that went to Jay while Colby was here?
Those will now go to Skip Schumaker and Corey F’n Patterson!
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you met tony?
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
you are making a lot of assumptions
1. If you think we are getting Brett Lawrie or Travis D’Arnaud are the PTBNL then I’d like to know what exactly you are basing that on.
2. The reason dumping Colby is a big deal is a center fielder who can hit 30+ HR with good speed do not grow on trees. John Jay certainly isn’t that (and I like Jay). So what Mo has effectively done is replace one of the rarest commodities in baseball with a two month rental on a decent starting pitcher, a good LH reliever, and RH who should never pitch to lefties. This is why writers from across the country are calling this a clear win for Toronto and I couldn’t agree more.
3. If you think moving Rasmus definitely improves the team this year then you I suppose you have completely forgotten how Jay faded down the stretch after Ludwick was dealt last year. You had better hope that Jay has the season of his life the rest of way because otherwise you are going to be seeing a lot more of Skippy or Cory Patterson (!) in the outfield.
4. Berkman is having a great year and he is also 35 years old. I hope he will be back (we really need him back now) but to expect this type of season into the future for him is pretty hopeful.
Berkman
has just turned into Larry Walker circa 2005.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 28, 2011 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
how improved really?
The biggest improvement was getting a lefty that we could actually trust in the bulpen and shipping the other two off so LaRussa is not tempted to use them.
Jackson should be a decent improvement over K-Mac in the 5 man rotation, but would you slot him as the 3rd starter in the playoffs. Not sure hes distinguished himself as clearly better than Lohse this year.
And getting McClellan back in the bulpen (and adding Dotel) should bolster that a bit too, but to clear space for both we gotta send down Boggs or Lynn. Neither of which is really subtracting someone who needed to go.
It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great.
I'm definitely on the awful trade side of this argument but
Jackson will be our third starter in the playoffs. He is better than Lohse.
FREE TYLER GREENE!
i agree with this also
in fact, moving forward, i expect the competition for #3 to be between Westbrook and Jackson, not Jackson and Lohse.
DFA Corey Patterson
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
I really highly doubt that any of the PTBNL are impact players
They’re most likely toolsy prospects who haven’t developed those tools into skills, or AAAA type players.
I’d be utterly shocked if any of the PTBNL would crack our top 15 prospects, or even our top 25 at this point. That says a lot about the depth of our farm system, but Toronto’s system is extremely deep as well.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Do they have any decent MIF's at the higher levels...
with Hill and Escobar they would seem pretty set at the MLB level for a few seasons.
Jimmy Ballgame for 2011 RFer!!!
by cardzfanbub on Jul 28, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
No
They have some interesting toolsy players in the low minors and they are literally LOADED with catching talent. Counting Arencibia, they have 3 catchers who’ve slugged .500 at A+, AA, and AAA within the last calendar year. I highly doubt that we get any of those guys though.
If I had to guess, I would guess we’ll get a young, toolsy middle infielder and a couple of arms with limited potential, 4th starter ceiling types with arms that profile in the bullpen. In other words, the best we’re likely to get when we compare them to players in our own system would be pitchers like Joe Kelly and position players like Cody Stanley.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm interested by what you mean by
the class of the division. Because, to my eye, the Cardinals have made the playoffs exactly once since 2006, with the best player in baseball on the roster, and were swept unceremoniously out by the Dodgers on the one occasion they did make it in. So forgive me if I don’t salivate over the Cardinals’ recent run of dominating second and third place in the NL Central.
As for the players to be named, they’re not top prospects. If we’re lucky they’ll be guys who could end up in the Luke Gregerson wing of the Hall of Sort-of Fame.
The draft pick compensation is a good point, but I think you’re way overstating them. Jackson will be a Type B, so he’ll net the Cards a supplemental pick. Nice. Anyone who thinks Dotel is going to get the Cards a pick, though, is basing that on very shaky reasoning. He’ll be a Type B, yes, but he’s also 38, and I would just about bet would be willing to accept arbitration to get a one-year deal. So I would be mighty surprised if the Cards even offered arbitration, because he’ll probably just take it. And god help us all if Dotel were to somehow end up an A. Good lord, the horror.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
how much would this trade be devalued if the free agent draft pick compensation gets changed/eliminated
as they’ve been talking about this year?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Oh, lord. Please don't even suggest such a thing.
The idea of possibly netting a couple extra draft picks out of this is the only thing keeping me off the ledge at the moment.
In all likelihood, though, even if they were to redo the compensation rules they would likely give teams a grace period to adjust. Let everyone know the system is ending in two years or something along those lines, so teams can change their valuations and not just suddenly get hit with a loss of picks they were counting on.
But I will say this: if the Cards somehow do come out of this without a single extra draft pick, the deal immediately becomes, say, 50% worse.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
EJ is the lowest rated type B pitcher according to the mlbtr elias thing...
and Dotel has an option and buyout.
We’ll be lucky to get one single supplemental pick.
DFA Patterson!!!
That's what I'm afraid of.
I didn’t realise Jackson was the very bottom Type B guy, though. Strange, I thought he had been better than that the last couple seaons. (Though, come to think of it, the Elias rankings always seems very strange and voodoo-y to me, so I’m not sure what basis they’re judging him on.)
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea how this could be either...
he’s headed toward back to back 200 inning seasons and he’s been good. I bet he sticks as a type B.
DFA Patterson!!!
it's okay
Dave Duncan will fix him, he’ll pitch 7 CG shut outs from here on out and pole vault into a type A.
Grit != flat out sucking.
It would go from shitty
to ah hell no shitty.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
The thing you should hope for is that as a part of Dotel's buyout
the Cards and Dotel agree (handshake deal or otherwise) that Dotel not accept arbitration if he is Type B. They could easily kick him 100K (or whatever) for this. These types of deal are becoming increasingly common.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
That's true, and would be ideal.
Fingers crossed.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Though,
I could see a deal like that being agreed to, then a week later Tony holds a press conference to announce that Octavio Dotel is actually the devil in disguise, and the whole thing falls apart.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Is this allowed?
could we, say, renegotiate Dotel’s contract to contain an extra 100k and a provision that he can’t take arb? I don’t know what the restrictions on this sort of gimmickry are.
What is Corey Patterson doing in Tyler Greene's spot on the 25-man roster?
Honestly, I don't know.
There have been plenty of contracts in recent years that have a no arb offer clause written, due to players seeing the Type A designation actually hurts their ability to get signed elsewhere. I’m not sure if you can do something after the fact like that, though.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
You'd have to look at the CBA to be sure
but a player contract is just a contract. It can be re-negotiated by the parties at any time. I’m confident you could accomplish the stated goal in a number of different ways, at least one of which would pass muster.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
That's true.
Like you said, though, not sure what the CBA does or does not allow on that stuff.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The real problem is if he becomes Type A
because that definitely is a CBA issue; the Cards and Dotel cannot remove the disincentive to other teams of signing Dotel.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Heard that somewhere last season I think
but not sure where in a way that I could cite it.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
top 15 players? thats a pipe dream.
and even if we get picks, how will any of them help in the immediate future, 2012-2014?
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
As far as I'm concerned
this deal isn’t done yet until we know who the PsTBN are which, from what I read out of all the here-say from yesterday, is contingent on the players’ performance/making the playoffs/etc. This may be true or not. Toronto has a decent enough system where I’d like to give Mo the benefit of the doubt to be able to get something from it.
Giving Mo the benefit of the doubt
is like leaving your gleaming sports car with your quadraphonic Blaupunkt unlocked in a very bad neighborhood.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 28, 2011 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Players asking to be traded
Jim Edmonds asked to be traded. We got David Freese – who is turning out nicely.
Scott Rolen asked to be traded. We got Troy Glaus – he turned out nicely for a year, then got injured – Cards would have gotten a supplemental draft choice for Glaus if he hadn’t gotten hurt.
This trade could turn out well. Only time will tell. Unfortunately, 90% of the posters on here do not seem to want to give the trade a chance at all. If Jackson signs a reasonable offer – or we get a pick for him, then this trade will look better in the long run. If Colby turns into an utter failure (meaning more seasons like this year and his first year) then this trade will look better in the long run. If Scrabble turns out to be a stellar LOOGY for the next 4-8 years in a Cardinals’ uniform, this trade will look better in the long run. All I’m trying to get across is that on VeB this trade is being seen as the doom of the Cardinals’ ENTIRE ORGANIZATION, and we have yet to see a player that we acquired even take the field.
The defeatist attitude is absolutely ridiculous in my mind.
an organization should make a trade based on the best available information.
if everyone is looking at the best available information and the Cardinals are hosed on this trade not just this year, not just next year, but the year after that, not just with talent on the field but with MONEY and YEARS, then it is a foolish trade. this is not judging the wisdom of a trade in hindsight. this is judging it based on the information we have today. what you’re putting against it is information that is not only not there to be had, since it is from the FUTURE, but is UNLIKELY based on what we know.
if you refuse to look at the best available information, then you can come in here and call us defeatist.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
your defeatist.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I left that their for scoot.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Does the best available information show that Rasmus
will automatically become the player he was in 2010 starting now and stay that player the rest of his career with the Jays?
I'll let you read three years of VEB, then, shall I?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It doesn't matter if Edwin Jackson signs a deal, reasonable or unreasonable.
You want him in 2012? Go sign him. He’s a free agent. This trade only — I repeat, ONLY — nets you the remaining two months of the season of Edwin Jackson.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True
but it gives you first crack at signing him and it also allows him insight on what it means to be a Cardinal and play in front of the Cards fans. If we end up wanting him for longer than this year, with any luck, he’ll want to play here more than he would if he hadn’t had that chance.
Scott Boras is his agent
He’s going to hit free agency and sign with the team that offers him the most money and years.
I don’t think 6 or so starts here will do much.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
exactly
With Lohse and Westbrook already under contract and Jaime signed, I can’t believe Jackson will be here next year (assuming Carp and A.D.A.M. are back). Oh, and we have a 1B to sign too.
i for one am not assuming Carp will be back
Adam yes, Carp questionable for the money he’s supposed to get
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
yeah, I'd rather we trade him if we can't get him on a new deal.
thought the 10-5 rights suck, but didn’t he previously say he’d ok a trade if it happened?
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
he'll wave the 10-5 in a heartbeat
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
It'd be an interesting return
A top 100 prospect is feasible.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
I don't like Carp's option.
If he were willing to go 2 years, 15-18 million though I’d be glad to have him back.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
westbrook got 2/16.5
i think Carp could easily get 2/20 on the open market.
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
I don’t want to hear any BS about if we sign EJ it’s a winning trade. His agent is Scott Boras, there’s no discount, anyone can have him if they put in the top bid. Personally, I see a Kyle Lohse situation developing where the dumbass GM puts good money after bad and overpays to try to redeem a bad trade. Jock did it with Mulder and I fear Mo is going to feel pressure to do the same. Meanwhile Shelby spends 2012 and 2013 in Memphis because we just don’t have a spot for him.
DFA Patterson!!!
Why the fuck do we want Edwin Jackson for another 3 years?
We already have a pretty stacked pitching farm system, and have Carp’s option to worry about.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't understand why so few people understand this concept
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 28, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the point I was trying to get across about the Wallace-Holliday trade yesterday
Lots of people see that as a clear win because we got Holliday out of it. Well no, we got two months of Holliday. Then we outbid everyone else for his services, which had nothing to do with the trade.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
Yeah
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
on the flip side though
(and i know everyone likes to argue that holliday wouldn’t have signed here without that two months, which is probably not true if we gave him the best deal)
it is possible that the cardinals wouldn’t have offered him so much money having not seen his performance for two months. in other words, without that trade, we may have let ourselves get outbid. and it turns out that we got a great deal for a great player. and i think we are all happy that matt holliday is on this team. to say that the trade had absolutely nothing to do with the signing probably isn’t a true assessment, imo.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
Or he's on our team
now. Who cares how he got here?
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
It's also possible everyone bids less because of that uncertainty
And the Cardinals still sign him, except we pay him less money than we’re paying him now.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
true. i guess the point is really don't know either way and never will.
so what’s the point
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
How were the draft picks not a factor in the signing of Holliday?
I am not saying it was dispositive, but it had to have been a factor?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
doesnt it have something to do with the trade?
at least im under the uninformed impression that players usually tend to sign with teams that already have them or bothered to trade for them, plus they have the advantage of first shot at them fwiw.
Unless the player is dead set on making the most money in FA
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
And maybe Scrabble as a starter for years to come
Which would be fantastic. Although I have zero confidence in Tony/Mo to use him as a starter.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I find my quadraphonic blaupunkt as useful as
the ten foot pole I carry around to poke people with.
by martimeryard on Jul 28, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
This is just wrong
I disagree with this post on so many levels.
1. It assumes Rasmus will be better in the future. Possible, but replacing a .250, uncoachable hitter is not difficult.
2. Jon Jay having a career year? First of all, he didn’t come out of nowhere; he has been an outfielder of the future for years. Second, it’s basically his second year.
3. Lance Berkman — career year? Yea, another guy who just popped up out of nowhere. Jeez.
4. LaRussa not doing his job? Uh, how do you know what he did? Is it possible Rasmus is just a spoiled, lazy kid who is trying to skate on his ability? LaRussa is not the only guy who has said this.
Could this trade go bust? Sure, but we still get two sandwich picks and a cost controlled lefty reliever, so it’s noy like we got a bucket of balls. I’d give it a couple of years before we proclaim it a complete failure of management.
by knieriemd on Jul 28, 2011 8:27 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
We only get sandwich picks if the
players are offered and decline arbitration. Don’t assume this will for sure happen.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
I'd say it's quite likely...
that Jackson is offered and declines. Dotel is probably completely dependent on performance for the remainder of the year. If he finishes as a type A (very close to it in the AL…might be worth giving him some save opps…?) he probably gets offered, unfortunately he’d probably also accept. If he finishes strong, but still a type B he probably gets offered and 50/50 on accepting. Weak finish = no offer.
Jimmy Ballgame for 2011 RFer!!!
If he finishes Type A, it will be much less likely that Dotel is offered arb.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually think the PTBNL are dependent on if we get draft picks for Dotel or not
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
here's hoping this is true
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
It makes sense
There are potentially 3 draft picks to be had – 2 if Dotel is Type A and 1 for Jackson
If Dotel gets to type A, then we’re not going to get draft picks for him, so Toronto sends over draft picks. If Jackson sucks and plays himself out of Type B, then they send over another one. If not, then we get some sort of cash
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Oh okay thanks
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Yeah, it was a typo
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
...
rui_xu: @dgoold @MatthewHLeach Are 3 PTBNL dependent on if Dotel gets Type A? (Which means we won’t get 2 picks for him since nobody will sign him?)
dgoold: @rui_xu I was told no. But allow me to wait for a more definitive answer.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
That's why I like Goold.
Strauss never would have asked that question.
by Ghostrider520 on Jul 28, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
sure he would
he’d say something like, “go buy a paper and read about it statgeek”
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Maybe - any report of this, or are you just hoping this is the case?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know about hoping, but just theorizing
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I appreciate contrarian view on this board because it enlivens the debate
but this is just one example of specious reasoning after another. I feel like I don’t even have time to address all these. “Is it possible Rasmus is just a spoiled, lazy kid who is trying to skate on his ability.” How is that an argument? Sure, it’s possible. Isn’t it just as possible that Tony is a overbearing egotistical prick skating by on the credibility he earned early in his career, which hs long since vanished. There, we’re at an impasse. Now what?
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Jul 28, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 16 recs
It think
it is only natural to be pissed about this trade because of what Colby represented. Young, cost controlled, 2-8 WAR potential who, for whatever reason, rubbed mgmt the wrong way. The same mgmt who will most likely be gone by the time Colby and his potential develop.
However, I can’t and won’t allow this trade to somehow tarnish my fandom. The Cardinals for me are a beer and a hotdog, an escape from work, or a watercooler discussion. Today, my life is no worse because this happened.
The Cardinals are a baseball team that I am a fan of. I will continue to be a fan and root for them. I wish Colby the best of luck, but I’m certainly not going to follow the Blue Jays now.
Welcome to the fold new guys and pitch with your hair on fire. Stay out of the doghouse!
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
by OKCardsfan on Jul 28, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
i'm not giving up my fanatical attachment to this franchise
after all, I sat through years of prostrating over the mulder deal. and i don’t think anyone else is turning in the t-shersies (is that even a word?) over this either. but i can not conceive as to how this trade makes this team significantly better going forward, while i can easily imagine how it makes the team worse in the years to come.
Mo was hosed on this deal, and I agree with everything DanUp’s said here.
FIRE TLR
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 28, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Cheers for both!
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms...the game of ball is glorious." Whitman
Honestly, every time the management does what Tony wants
it both impresses on me that Tony has to go, and that the management is still committed to Tony. So I’m not sure I agree with the part of your post that reads, “The same mgmt who will most likely be gone by the time Colby and his potential develop.”
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
with regards to number 4
Both players and media were quick to offer public defense of the manager after the Brendan Ryan trade. I’ve yet to see that this time. That is telling.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
well to be fair...
Using players’ public responses to a trade is not really indicative of much.
Still, the trade is awful.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
These are the SAME players that said Brendan Ryan need to grow up.
The SAME ones!
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
come on dude
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
What?
The veterans made it well known in public ways – to the media and with on the field chastisement — that Brendan Ryan needed to grow up. No one is doing that now.
But, in one sense, you’re right. It doesn’t matter. Dan wrote it more eloquently than I could – Tony LaRussa failed at his job.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
might of had a talking to by the organization
to keep their mouth shut after making the comments about B Ryan… you never know
by stxcardsfan on Jul 28, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
quite frankly
this is garbage. Calling Colby a .250 hitter is like calling Albert a .270. hitter. Talk about cherry-picking your stats
Really.
We’re using batting average to measure a player’s worth now? Wait, did I just wake up in 1980?
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 28, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
In that case
I guess we just traded for 2 months of a 4.53 ERA pitcher.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 28, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
By this rationale
You would have traded this guy for a 2 rental pitchers, a LOOGY, and a journeyman CF after his 2000 season.
Seriously. Get a grip
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
See, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT
You can actually deal with the malcontent a number of different ways. LaRussa isn’t signed past this year. So you let Tony walk at the end of the season. That takes care of the fucking problem right there.
I can find another manager a whole lot easier than I can find a 4 WAR CF who has 5-6 WAR potential.
I don’t give a damn if he’s the biggest baby in team sports. He’s talented, and you don’t flush talented players down the toilet because your crusty old manager can’t get along with them while getting nothing but the bowels of the major league septic system back for him.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 28, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
But Colby might not even make 2 WAR this year.
He didn’t get to 3 WAR his rookie year. He was just over 4 WAR last year.
I know the potential is there. However, the production did not match the potential. I still did NOT want him traded, but all I’m getting at today is the trade could still turn out to be win-win, but everyone is calling it a failure before we get an inning out of any of the players or before Rasmus plays an inning for them.
This trade will not be win-win
We got fleeced. Everyone knows it. Based on potential value alone, we should have gotten far more in trade for a CF with Colby’s pedigree and talents.
We’ve already lost this trade. The question is how much it impacts the current team. If Jon Jay repeats his August and September from 2010, we’re in deep, deep shit offensively.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
No, WE GOT FLEECED
We got a journeyman reliever, a LOOGY, a 2 month rental starter, and a shitty 4th OF for a former top 10 prospect in all of baseball with three years of cost control remaining.
We’ve gotten nothing else. The PTBNL’s could be voided in lieu of cash. We might not get a single compensation pick for any of the MLB players we traded for.
It’s really, really difficult for me to find another trade in the last 5 years in which a team was trading a cost-controlled player with Rasmus’ potential and got back LESS than we did. Mostly because teams don’t trade cost-controlled players with 5 WAR potential at a premium position.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 28, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Exactly.
Rzep might be a bit better than a LOOGY (though still a middling LH reliever) but the point remains the same.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Rzep might be a lot better than that, no?
he is the “wildcard” in this deal i think- if he hits the wildest possible upside, i STILL think we’ve lost this trade- but we can get some value back.
DFA Corey Patterson
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
Nope, I don't think he's a candidate to start
Would you put Shawn Marshall back in the rotation now? I wouldn’t, and he’s actually a better candidate to start because of his delivery. Scrabble has a funky delivery, struggles with right handed batters and doesn’t have a good enough change up to really fool righties either.
He’s a LOOGY, and a very good one, but that’s what he is.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
You people and your facts and logic
It’s almost like you’re trying to prove this trade totally sucked!
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
This trade did totally suck
I really have no need to “prove” that, it’s blatantly obvious.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 28, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The more I think about it, the more worried I am that they won't even bother trying to make Zep-chin-ski a starter
And that makes me cry a little.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
It already started last night...
Jay hitting 5th? Punto, Skip, Theriot and DD all starting together? Can’t score more than 2 runs? It took exactly one game to miss Rasmus.
DFA Patterson!!!
OMG
Berkman and Freese were out with nagging injuries…when you take away 2 of the better hitters in the lineup and couple it with the trade of another good player in the lineup, THEN use an incredibly small sample size of one game, which happened to be a loss against a player that we hardly ever beat anyway – that’s bad fandom to go batshit crazy depressed over it.
the fact that berkman was out with nagging injuries
is the reason I didn’t want to trade Colby or Jay.
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Jul 28, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
i don't understand what the hurry was anyway
if they were hellbent on trading him, there were 4 days left, they didn’t have to pull the trigger at once. shop around, compare all possibilities and give berkman 3 or four extra days to recover
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Agreed
yesteday was probably the worst day to pull off the worst trade of the year.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
And Berkman's may be something more than nagging.
Berkman apparently was very long-winded talking to reporters yesterday about how going to the doctor and getting an MRI on his shoulder was no big deal. Any player getting an MRI on his shoulder is concerning. The Cardinals knew Berkman was getting an MRI, yet still traded Rasmus. This makes the trade even worse in my eyes.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
this argument, that the trade "could turn out to be
A win-win" is a dodge. Any trade could end up good in its results. If the phillies trade cliff lee for jason marquis, and two weeks later cliff lee tears his labrum and never pitches again, the trade was a win for the phillies, based on the results.
But phillies fans would be rightly annoyed if lee is traded today for marquis. What would be nice is if there was some potential, obvious upside here.
It’s not enough to say that maybe rasmus doesn’t get to two WAR this year. Is there a good reason to think that will occur? That’s the real question.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jul 28, 2011 11:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
his play is good enough reason to believe that could occur.
According to B-R, he’s at 1.0 WAR over 60% of the way through the season.
So players only change between seasons. Got it.
Next year he could be better, but between now and then, we should project him to play with exactly the same results as over the previous four months. Am I getting that about right?
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
by mojowo11 on Jul 28, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this argument, that the trade "could turn out to be
A win-win" is a dodge. Any trade could end up good in its results. If the phillies trade cliff lee for jason marquis, and two weeks later cliff lee tears his labrum and never pitches again, the trade was a win for the phillies, based on the results.
But phillies fans would be rightly annoyed if lee is traded today for marquis. What would be nice is if there was some potential, obvious upside here.
It’s not enough to say that maybe rasmus doesn’t get to two WAR this year. Is there a good reason to think that will occur? That’s the real question.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jul 28, 2011 11:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I actually think everything you're saying is possible
I get your point and I’m not as “anti-stlfan” as some here, I think. The problem is the following: Even if we get the best possible scenario from this trade, which we mostly likely won’t, it is still a trade that need not have happened in the first place. We have now increased our risk for the future while getting something of an upgrade in pitching, but we did not need to do this trade. That is the main thing that people are objecting to. Why does the organization have to keep on in such a way?
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
by mattybobo on Jul 28, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And the explanation we've gotten from the media
Is that TLR’s harsh words to the media about Colby not listening to his coaches triggered the team’s decision that Colby needed to be dealt.
Hence this whole post about how TLR failed at his job.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
part time?
He had 14 less PAs than his 2011 season, and was 5th on the team in PAs
Grit != flat out sucking.
oops
he had 14 less PAs in his rookie seasons than he he did in his 4.3 WAR 2010.
Grit != flat out sucking.
I swore he was part time part of 2009.
Was he injured last year?
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
He wasn't "full time" per say.
He played in 147 games, but only started 114 of them, so he started 78% of the time he played.
Compared to other OFers that year:
Holliday – 62/63 98%
Ludwick 134/139 96%
Ankiel 101/122 82%
Duncan 78/87 90%
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
i was doing better
and then you said
getting nothing but the bowels of the major league septic system back for him
and now i’m sad again
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
I'll put it his way
The fact that the Jays and Rays front offices were interested in Rasmus at all would be enough to indicate to me that we shouldn’t even be thinking about trading him.
Those are the two of the best talent evaluation front offices in all of baseball. If they are interested in a player, there’s a very good reason for it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 28, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know the difference between Beltran and Rasmus?
Beltran won ROY with a year similar to Rasmus’ 2010.
Beltran played on a team that nobody has given a shit about for going on 2 decades.
The Royals didn’t have a manager that constantly benches his best players in favor of other players for reasons that make little to no sense.
That’s pretty much the differences. In terms of talent and potential, I think they are very similar players.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Is Rasmus a malcontent?
Let’s see if the manager in Toronto has a problem with him.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe he requests a trade to cincy
then glaus gets hurt
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
WE STILL LOVE YOU SCOTTY
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Ok, where was I when Jon Jay was proclaimed an outfielder of the future?
I always got the impression he was going to become a solid 4th OF if things worked out. Now, I wouldn’t call that an OF of the future. Colby – Yeah he’s the OF of the future actually.
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
we were drunk, and stuff
and they wrote it on our foreheads
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
my BA top 10 list from 2008 says he could win a few BA titles in the future with plus defense.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
If Jay does what he did last year
after Ludwick was traded (i.e. go in the tank), we will no longer proclaim him a star of the future. My fear is that the same thing will happen this year with the departure of Colby. Jay may just be better suited to a reserve role. I hope I’m wrong and he does become a star.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
Gotcha
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
by mysterui on Jul 28, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
ooh
that stings a little. gonna miss this guy.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 28, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
ouch
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
this is a lie! jim edmonds came out of the womb hitting 30 HR a year!!!
players do not require time to develop! whatever you are at 24 is what you will be the rest of your life!
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jul 29, 2011 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have to disagree.
I am going off of what the media reports. If they are wrong, then my stance would change accordingly:
As a coach, your job is to manage the players. That part is absolutely, 100% correct. When a player repeatedly asks to be traded and refuses instruction, then it is all on them. When other players in the clubhouse react to it and do not want said player around, then it is time to get rid of said player.
This is not youth baseball or even high school, where every player that comes out gets a chance to be on the team. This is a business. In this business, the 24-year old with gobs of unfulfilled potential that refuses to be a part of the team goes. Period.
When you won't listen to the men getting paid to coach you
and YOUR actions lead to your teammates calling you out in the media and some of them alienating you – that is refusing to be a part of a team.
And also something
that a highly paid professional whose job consists largely of managing talented young twentysomethings should be prepared to address and find a solution to.
You get a lot of different personalities in any workplace. In baseball or elsewhere, a good manager is a person who can get good performance out of as many folks as possible. Some people are intractable, and one failure doesn’t prove anything, but DanUp is right to point out that La Russa has accumulated a record.
What is Corey Patterson doing in Tyler Greene's spot on the 25-man roster?
Accumulated a record of what?
This what I don’t get. For every guy he “runs off” I can give you a counter example.
If a manager did his job, nobody would get fired. Happens every day. YOu can’t relate playing baseball to a normal 9-5 workplace.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
he's been able to manage at least as many players as he's run off?
that’s praise for la russa?
this kind of thing should happen rarely. it happens fairly often with la russa.
by prophetjohn on Jul 28, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I miss the days when we just complained about LaRussa's
on the field managerial decisions.
Those were good times.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
No one called him out in the media except LaRussa.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
who the hell called colby out in the media?
for what? when?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
when was the last time Albert paid attention to Jose Oquendo on the bases.
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
because last year he got disgruntled when he was being benched because he
wanted to play more. Don’t you see, wanting to play more clearly means you refuse to be part of the team.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
He got disgruntled over having the 3rd most PAs on the team.
and playing the 5th most innings in the field.
who cares what he was disgruntled about
TLR’s job depends on other people performing. Thats the ONLY way he succeeds. He is completely dependent on other people and yet he maintains a despotic attitude. Any good leader in any field will say that leadership = influence. Any good leader will also say that if youre not influencing the people around you, then you need to find another way. The impetus is on TLR, not Colby, because TLR is in the position of leadership.
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
and if his job depends on players performing
and a young player is not performing and is not in line with the rest of the clubhouse…
you missed the point of my post entirely.
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
When other players in the clubhouse react to it and do not want said player around, then it is time to get rid of said player.
Where has anyone said they didn’t want Colby in the clubhouse besides Albert’s out of turn remarks last year. Skip and Freese said quite the opposite this morning.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Quotes from your linked article
“I don’t know what’s really best for Colby. I think that’s the question,” Freese said. “To be honest, I hope that he takes this move in a positive direction. He’s got a lot of time left in this game. I also hope he can learn and grow as a person. … Colby just needs to do what makes himself happy off the field, because if you’re not happy off the field (it is) extremely difficult to focus and perform on the field.”
This, to me, shows that Colby is not going to flourish anywhere until COLBY figures things out – not LaRussa.
Skip Schumaker adds:
“Whether he’ll ever get it or not is up in the air.”
I’ll be the first to admit there there were also a lot of nice things said about both Rasmus’ ability and his clubhouse demeanor over the past season since his public trade demands. Players saying that he kept the clubhouse even keeled makes me wish something was said earlier than the day of or AFTER he was traded. I did not want the Cardinals to get rid of Rasmus – you can check everything I said before the trade to confirm this – those thought might have changed my opinion of Colby a bit.
Said second baseman Skip Schumaker: "He’s a special talent. The guy has got every tool in the world. He could be a superstar. That’s who he is. He’s got lots of tools. He’s fine in the clubhouse. Whether he’ll ever get it or not is up in the air.
It’s also up in the air whether Jason Heyward will ever get it. Or Jay Bruce. Or literally any young player ever.
And if all you can latch on to is the fact that Colby wasn’t happy in St. Louis as evidence that he won’t be a good baseball player (despite the fact that this magically wasn’t an impediment last year) then you’re not really willing to look at anything beyond LaRussa’s quotes.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
When did Colby ask for a trade last year?
It’d be interesting to look at his stats from that point on compared to how he was doing before that in the season.
.
“He’s a kid that has changed from the kid that he was a year and a half ago,” Pujols said. “He made a lot of changes in his life. As a player, he thought that we would be picking on him when we helped him out. … I wasn’t a player as talented as he is, but I was around some great guys who took me under their wings. Sometimes he looked at it in a different way. He thought that we were picking on him.”
Grit != flat out sucking.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I said.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
speculation
married life with an infant is harder than Colby thought. Especially when he is away 80% of the time either on the road for work or at work.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
they say that the road ain't no place to start a family
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither is space, from what I've heard.
In fact, apparently it’s cold as hell.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I've already tried this
here comes the screaming about infantizing Rasmus.
I'm with you
I really think Colby needed to get dumped as I don’t think you can let young players (especially unproven players, talented as they may be) go their own way. Like it or not, Tony is in charge and Colby should have realized that instead of having this sense of entitlement that he seemed to have.
Still they should have gotten a lot more for him.
So....
now we should let him call the shots instead of a manger who has taken us to the playoffs every other year since he’s been here and won more games than all but like 2 other managers?
You're jumping to conclusions about the Rasmus-La Russa relationship...
certainly there’s a level of insubordination that should result in consequences for any player, but according to La Russa himself, the only problem was that Rasmus simply wouldn’t take batting instruction from the Cardinal coaches.
Personally, I think if a player can hit like Rasmus while covering CF he should be allowed to ignore any batting coach he wants. At the very least, if you’re a competent GM, you put an absolute gag order on everyone involved and trade him in the offseason when you have more leverage.
DFA Patterson!!!
You're jumping to conclusions about Rasmus' play
You’re using his potential to cloud how he has played in 800+ of his 1200+ of his PAs.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean...
Rasmus has 1440 plate appearances and has been 11% better than the average major league hitter during that time while covering a defense-first position. Research shows that hitters peak around age 27. Rasmus is 24.
DFA Patterson!!!
by guayzimi on Jul 28, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, I was looking at ABs not PAs. My bad.
In Rasmus’ first 520 PAs he was 11% below average.
In the last 42 games he has had 158 PAs. That’s approximately 700 PAs total in which he has been well below average.
Over the last 3 months of 2010, he also was right around average. I don’t remember the numbers exactly, but it was an approximate .745 OPS over his last 250 PAs last season.
Slicing and dicing his sample like this is kind of silly...
He’s come to bat 1,440 times. He made 991 outs. He was below average 991 times, and above average 449 times.
DFA Patterson!!!
by guayzimi on Jul 28, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So if successful is getting on base and he has gotten on base 33% of the time
is that successful? Now, I know that a .334 BA would be wildly successful. BA is not a good indicator of a player’s ability. OBP is better than BA. Colby’s OBP is .334. This year it’s .332. This year seems to be the most in line with his career stats as a whole.
don't you get it?
He is only 24! He hasn’t yet reached his full potential! Maybe he will and maybe he won’t…but the promise of his potential and past performance is worth a lot more than what we received in return. What about this do you fail to understand? Every writer outside of STL is ripping this trade and for just reasons.
he is in his 6th season of professional ball
he should be hitting his full potential pretty close to now.
Grit != flat out sucking.
he average player peak at age 27
the average players also get to the majors at 25
Grit != flat out sucking.
Right
elite players generally get to the big show earlier
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
I would say they hit their peak earlier too
they just stay at that “peak level” longer. I think Rasmus is at that peak level.
Grit != flat out sucking.
I honestly see no way that's true
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Then you disagree
with every single scout that’s been sourced in newspaper articles about this trade.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
we got fleeced
Even if Cobly is the 2.5 – 3.5. War player that he is now for the next few years, we still got hosed. A 3.5 WAR centerfielder on the cheap is not something you trade away for a rental Starting Pitcher.
I just don’t think that he will be that 5-6 WAR player that people here thinks he will be. If he starts hitting 35-45 Homeruns than yeah, he may reach that. I don’t think he will. But if he does, that’s great. I hope he does prove me wrong.
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Jul 28, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Last year he was nearly a 5 WAR player
After just 530 PAs, and 23 HRs, and with a considerably poor UZR. I don’t think he’ll hit many more than 35 HRs in a year, but I don’t see any reason why him reaching 5-6 WAR hinges on him hitting 35-45 HRs.
You only did it so that you could wear terry underwear and feel the city air run past your body
by lunchboxbomb on Jul 28, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
last year his BABIP was .050 points higher than his career
Unless, you are saying he is a true talent .350 BABIP guy. And all those other years in professional baseball just don’t count.
So I don’t expect him to get extremely lucky again. Therefor, if he is going to reach that high WAR ceiling, he is going to have to do it some other way.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Like lowering his strikeout rates?
He did that this year, while maintaining his walk rate. His homeruns suffered but we can’t be as confident in that being correlated to the strikeouts as we can in the strikeouts being a really change in skill. He also has a higher power ceiling than he’s reached in any season.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
334 is pretty good if comes with power...
you also have to look at the trajectory of the player. Hitters get better as they age peaking in their late 20s. You also have to look at the player’s batting average on balls in play (babip) to try to figure out if the player has been relatively luck or unlucky.
DFA Patterson!!!
by guayzimi on Jul 28, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Colby's BABIP
in the minors was unexceptional. His career MLB BABIP is .302. That is what I believe to be his true norm based on his minor league numbers. His power should go up, which will help the SLG and OPS, but I could see .334 being his career OBP. How much his power goes up is what can be called into question. This year his power has dropped considerably from last year and is only slightly below his career norms to this point.
Like I said...
power develops late, he already has a lot of it, and now he’s going from pitcher’s park to hitters park. I’ll take the over on 25-30 HRs. Way over.
DFA Patterson!!!
I hope he turns into a HOFer...
and John Mozeliak’s name lives in basball infamy for all time.
DFA Patterson!!!
I hope he turns into a HOFer
while the Cards win 3 series in the next decade and Mo’s name goes on to become one of the most revered in the game.
like camus said
hope means being cut down, as you run like mad, on a street corner by a stray bullet
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
I would think being unwilling to listen to...
leads/supervisors in any job might be cause for dismissal by management. I wouldn’t act like this is no big deal.
Jimmy Ballgame for 2011 RFer!!!
Players in professional sports punch their wives, drown their dogs, and get drunk and kill people...
the idea that a player who is producing results, but doing it his own way, is somehow intolerable is ridiculous. Professional sports are a results-based industry.
DFA Patterson!!!
by guayzimi on Jul 28, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And the results were unspectacular...
if Colby gave our coaching group a fair shake, and it wasn’t working I have no issues with him seeking outside help…it doesn’t sound like this is the case. If my boss tells me to do something expecting a certain result, and I do it my own way with just as effective results it’s a non-issue. If I do it my own way with sub-par results I’ll get my ass reamed. If I repeatedly go my own way and repeatedly deliver poor results I’ll get shown the door. Baseball is VERY results driven, and the results were not at a level commensurate with what was expected.
Jimmy Ballgame for 2011 RFer!!!
by cardzfanbub on Jul 28, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
And I will say that
Maybe the expectations were too high – but so were the expectations. Conversely, if you say that the expectations were too high, then his potential is too high as well.
Damnit Ben, type correctly...
Maybe the expectations were too high – but so was the potential. Conversely, if you say that the expectations were too high, then his potential is too high as well.
Ah, I see.
That makes more sense. And I kind of see where you’re coming from. I don’t agree, but I can see why you would say that. Maybe Colby really got too much press out of a season where he got the Springfield bump to his offensive numbers, and he was always more Steve Finley than Grady Sizemore in terms of talent ceiling. If so, then maybe this trade doesn’t sting long-term so much.
Again, I don’t agree. But there is reason to look at him and wonder if he’s really going to ever hit that ceiling we all thought he had. Or has.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
what do you mean it doesn't sound like it?
what do you derive this from? he’s been with us long enough and he’s had plenty of time to be coached by our instructors. what you’re saying is is that he refused to listen to them from day one. do you not remember colby working with mac in the offseason? did he need to? no. but he did it. he tried.
if he feels like that’s not working for him or what they’re asking him to do is unnatural to him or messes with his mechanics, then he SHOULD seek outside help
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
by d-dee on Jul 28, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
To me it sounds as though...
the organization was frustrated with him being unwilling to listen to our coaching staff. He came into the year on fire, and when he began to struggle he appears to have abandoned our staff. I don’t think I’m reaching to say that it appears our coaching staff wasn’t given the appropriate attention.
Jimmy Ballgame for 2011 RFer!!!
by cardzfanbub on Jul 28, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
if he felt like he was struggling because of what he was instructed to do
then he has every right to choose to abandon that instruction
the is though, you cannot be certain of which occurred first or if the two are related or consequences of each other. that would be pure speculation
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Well then go check your expectations at the door...
you just got rid of very good because you wanted great. And now you don’t even have very good.
DFA Patterson!!!
should have gotten rid of that pujols guy too then
oh but wait, he’s a special case. and the manager likes him
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Sure...
he was great in high school, he was great in the minor leagues, and he was great in the major leagues as a 23 year old. He was also great this year until June 1.
Since then he hit 200/260/390 in 42 games. You have to be kind of a baseball idiot to point to the last 42 games and declare him “bad at baseball” or “unproven” or “untapped potential.”
DFA Patterson!!!
by guayzimi on Jul 28, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If I said I'd kick your ass...
and you said “prove it” and I kicked your ass, that would be a one-time event that proved the thing you said to prove.
DFA Patterson!!!
See, now THAT'S a win-win deal.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
no one said he is bad
TLR said he gets into extended slumps because he doesn;t listen to coaching. I’m sure TLR values consistency over severe peaks and valleys.
...
Colby Rasmus April 1 to June 1: 52 games, 280/380/445
Colby Rasmus June 1 to trade: 42 games 200/260/390
Jon Jay April 1 2010 to August 1: 49 games 380/430/580
Jon Jay August 1 to end of season: 56 games 240/310/310
Why does Jon Jay get into extended slumps? I have a hypothesis: IT’S BASEBALL.
DFA Patterson!!!
by guayzimi on Jul 28, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
We shouldn't even be having these arguments about who's to blame
with a mature, professional manager who can ably manage different personalitites in a clubhouse, this situation never even arises.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Jul 28, 2011 8:44 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Truth is
You don’t really know what Rasmus’ attitude was. All you know is what TLR says and what his sycophants in the STL media report. We will, unfortunately, look back on this trade with great regret in a couple of years after TLR is gone and Rasmus is a star.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
by heathen on Jul 28, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the real question is
How exactly is TLR “managing” in any player? Please explain to me how TLR’s ’management" skilis are worth more than any player? Particularly a young, power hitting CF. All TLR has do with any player is write their name in the line up.
by nmstar on Jul 28, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It is a manager's job, nay, his ONLY job
to get the players ready to play. Anybody can fill out a lineup card. Hell, Billy Martin once chose his lineup pulling names out of a hat. If a player is not ready to play, the manager needs to do his job to ensure that. Instead, LaRussa basically threw up his hands on Rasmus. LaRussa failed to do his job.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 28, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
When do you give up on a player?
If a player accumulates 1276 plate appearances and is still refusing to listen to staff – is that a good place to start?
If this were an isolated incident with LaRussa, perhaps
But Dan did an excellent job explaining that this merely is the latest in a long pattern of behavior by LaRussa that started, for all intents and purposes, with Ozzie Smith. This is why there is such vitriol toward LaRussa this morning, because here we are, yet another player that has to be shipped out because the manager has to have his way.
Maybe, and I’m just thinking out loud here, if the Cardinals’ “staff” has repeated problems with players, perhaps the problem rests not with the players.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 28, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
To have 5 documented problems with employees over 16 seasons
is pretty remarkable when you are dealing with 35-40 players a season, I believe.
five problems?
off the top of my head: Ray King, Ozzie Smith, Ron Gant, Brian Jordan, Kerry Robinson (lotta black guys. weird.), Colby Rasmus, Brendan Ryan, Jim Edmonds (at the end), Scott Rolen, Anthony Reyes, Steve Kline and I’m sure I’m missing others.
And yet, the manager always wins. You’d think after 16 years the team would figure out that the problem might not always be those danged ball players.
I had never heard of problems with
King, Gant, Jordan. I thought Reyes’ problems were with Duncan. I had completely forgotten about Robinson and Kline.
Gant ripped him up and down
and said he had a problem with black players. Dave Stewart (former A) called Gant out on that right away and Jordan said his problems with TLR were not racial.
Ozzie
You can’t blame TLR completely for that one. Ozzie was on a contract that let him decide each year if he wanted to play again. The Cards needed to find his eventual replacement and thought Ozzie was going to retire. They traded for Royce Clayton and then Ozzie decided to come back. The Cards has 2 starting shortstops and LaRussa made a platoon out of it. Ozzie was pissed because he wanted to play every day. I thought LaRussa did the best he could in that situation.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
The best TLR could do
resulted in Ozzie Smith not having anything to do with the organization (except ceremonial appearances) until TLR is gone. I think there is more to it than just a platoon.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
but isn't some or a lot of that on Ozzie?
I mean I love Ozzie, but it seems pretty stubborn to distance yourself from the team you supposedly love because of one guy.
youneverknow
tlr told ozzie
that the player who played the best would get the starts. royce hit poorly in the spring, ozzie played better. royce got the start. from almost day 1, ozzie was lied to.
by averagejoe on Jul 28, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
LaRussa handled it horribly.
He promised Ozzie that the best shortstop would play. Ozzie outplayed Clayton from day one but much like the current situation with Theriot, Clayton was Tony’s guy so that is who played.
Just a quick look at the stats shows that Ozzie was the better shortstop that year but he only got to play 82 games. Clayton played 129 games and accumulated 1.6 WAR. Ozzie played 82 and accumulated 1.1 WAR.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair to LaRussa on this one,
It’s extremely dumb to start Smith (-0.4 fWAR in ’95) over Clayton (2.4 fWAR in ’95) based off a 1 month sample against inferior pitching most likely.
And surprise, surprise, Clayton ends up being better in ’96
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, well
96 AS Ozzie Smith would like to disagree with you.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Then don't make promises that you can't keep
Again, the man has trouble with flapping his jaws at inopportune times. I think this has been demonstrated.
Don’t say “The best player is going to play” and then play the guy who doesn’t play the best.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Oh yeah i agree.
Just pointing out what he did wasn’t totally illogical. The illogical part was saying that in the first place.
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
At one point we know that Rasmus had LaRussa's blessing to work
with his father in the cage. There had to of been some communication breakdown between LaRussa’s staff, Colby, and his father. LaRussa’s staff and Mr. Rasmus should have been on the same page.
by martimeryard on Jul 28, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This assumes a lot about Rasmus
And you’re assuming a lot based on quotes from ONE person, who’s also happened to throw multiple players under the bus over his 35 years managing in baseball.
Considering that you’re not willing to recognize the feelings and comments by any of the players or the GM regarding the matter, I find this to be simply siding with Team Tony with no real facts to back it up.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 28, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Beyond that, we have all this discussion around the simple concept of whether Rasmus should be traded. The real problem is that we have this tendency to create a manufactured urgency by trashing our assets before we collect on them. Which contributes to us getting boned and retrieving 50 cents on the dollar. That’s where the focus needs to be.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 28, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
exactly
I don’t think many of the people calling for TLR’s head have ever had to be in management authority or leadership of any kind. If you had an employee like Colby Rasmus it would probably piss you off and you would want to get rid of him. Even if he was talented. You can’t just let anyone that wants to stray from the organizational program. Especially one that hasn’t earned everyone’s respect, paid dues etc.
Good luck to him somewhere else.
I call bullshit on this
Stop making assumptions about what people do for a living. I’ve managed teams of 15-30 employees for 8 years now and I can tell you one thing: If you have a person who shows a lot of potential but also seems to have difficulty following instruction or is someone that you just don’t get along with on a daily basis for whatever reason, the last thing you want to do is give up on that person. Why? BECAUSE THEY HAVE POTENTIAL AND TALENT.
Why do we pay Tony La Russa if he’s not going to take advantage of the talent that we give him? If I was in the business of managing a person who consistently over a 10 year period has raked the mud with multiple talented players with which he has an axe to grind, I’d be looking for a different manager. It’s that simple. He’s run multiple players out of town while repeatedly pining for veteran players who are more professional. Why? BECAUSE THEY MAKE HIS JOB EASIER. Sorry, I didn’t realize that we were in the business of making Tony La Russa’s job easier, I thought we were in the business of winning baseball games. Last I checked, the teams with the most talent generally win the most baseball games, not the teams with the most veteran players or the best manager.
Jim Leyland has a stated it before: You can have your chemistry guys, but give me the 25 best assholes in the game and I’ll beat your ass day in and day out no matter how good your team chemistry is. And he’s a friend of La Russa’s!!!
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 28, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Keep in mind
This is a guy who’s lists Bob Knight as one of his best friends. How many great players did Bob Knight run out on a rail in his career? He won a lot of games, but since 1995 was pretty much irrelevant as a coach, because you could no longer win titles without great talent. His coaching was minimized by not having the best players.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Knight
also won more games than any coach until Coach K. There are tons of players who testify to how great a coach he was. Maybe they are just old school and I like that better than letting the players do whatever they want.
Um, you can have Bob Knight
I’ll take Dean Smith, Coach K, and John Wooden and I’ll beat your ass for years. You know why? Because while your coach is belittling every player who doesn’t set a screen right or isn’t in the proper position on defense, my coach will be recruiting the very best talent and getting them to play good fundamental basketball while letting them use their talent on both ends of the floor.
As I said, you don’t win games without talent, I don’t really give a rip how good your coach is.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
if those 3 aren't available
Knight is going to win you a lot more than you lose.
I don't know about that
Tom Izzo would clean his clock too.
If we’re talking about coaches in the college game today, there are quite a few that would clean Knight’s clock. He would have trouble relating to players who grew up playing AAU ball 100 games a year but don’t necessarily play great fundamental basketball of the type that Knight likes to play. John Wall could not play for Bobby Knight. Neither could Jimmer Fredette.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
tom izzo and dean smith
could beat up bobby knight and tony larussa in a tag-team cage match
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Apologies.
I didn’t mean to offend anyone by assuming they aren’t in management, that’s why I wrote “many” people. For that I am sorry. I just don’t think enough people are looking at it from management’s perspective. I would want to keep my HoF manager’s program in place. TLR has done a lot more for the cards than Colby has IMO.
Leyland has had his share of run-ins with players as well. Barry Bonds for example and Bonds was much better than Colby.
how much has TLR done for the cardinals?
he’s been handed some pretty talented teams throughout his career. how do you determine how much success is a result of his strategy?
by prophetjohn on Jul 28, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
TLR
has been the one consistent piece of the team since 1996. I don’t think it is possible to argue that Colby Rasmus has done more foir STL than TLR.
TLR may have hurt the team as much as helped it...
I honestly have no idea. We had a nice run from 2004-2006, but I believe anyone would win with that core. Before and after that the team seems to largely have played to its talent level.
I think TLR is a fine manager, but it’s possible that who the manager is doesn’t actually make any difference, as counter-intuitive as that sounds.
DFA Patterson!!!
you didn't answer my question
you said the same thing in different words
by prophetjohn on Jul 28, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There is another consistent piece named Dave Duncan,
that I would argue is more important to the Cardinals’ success over the last fifteen years than the manager.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Seems they were a package deal, though
by HollidaysofThunder on Jul 28, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Duncan has indicated that he is open to outstaying TLR.
I believe we gave him a three-year contract last offseason.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
And I'm sure that the organization had a hand
in getting his son Chris the job he is currently enjoying. Although I do think that he’s done a pretty good job with it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think he will do a good job with it
once all the guys he played with are gone. His agenda against Rasmus was pretty clear and his boner for Skip is laughable.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
These are true statements.
However, La Russa has an established pattern for the last five years at least of fighting with his players, calling them out in the media, and getting them shipped out of town. Sometimes it’s worked out alright for the Cards, other times it has not. Why is it not a problem for a management figure to have an established pattern of behaviour which leads to problems in the clubhouse?
Someone said last week here (I believe it was here), that if you meet three assholes in a day, you’re probably the asshole. It’s a brilliant old saying, and I totally stole it to use in an interview with a Toronto radio station yesterday. (Cleaned up, that is.) La Russa has a pattern of this kind of behaviour, so why does everyone keep turning a blind eye, and arguing it must be the player? I’ve argued before, and I’ll argue again, that every time we look at the roster and wonder why we have a crappy middle infielder hanging around, or we hear the manager sniping at some player in the paper, that the only common thread in all of it is Tony himself.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
good points
But I just think his problems are worth it because of the winning. And perhaps the winning is a result of running a team in an old school way. In other words he earned the right to have his problems in a way that Colby has not.
Many players have flourished under LaRussa and the team certainly has.
maybe the winning is result of the best player in baseball
cy young caliber putching, MV3s, etc?
or is it the guy who tells them what order to bat in
by prophetjohn on Jul 28, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
The talent on the team has so much more to do with winning than the manager.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
So a running out
a washed up edmonds and rolen was a bad thing? Ozzie Smith for that matter?
As fans, we have “our guys” and when someone fucks with them we are quick to jump on the percieved enemy. TLR
Maybe, just maybe “our guys” were past there prime.Breaking up is hard to do.
Rasmus is a different story which I can only assume became untenable in someway. What I’ll never know but its over.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
i am actually curious as to how you cleaned up the asshole saying
which is quite brilliant and i’m hearing it for the first time
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Just changed asshole to jerk.
It lacks the same punch, but it still worked well enough.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
why didn't you link to the audio?
don’t be shy. here it is for everyone
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Oh, is it up?
I glanced at the website while ago but didn’t see it. Must have overlooked it. Grazi.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Ick, I sound terrible.
Have kind of a cold at the moment, which I was worried about. My voice sounds okay, but you can hear me breathing through my mouth the whole time. Very irritating.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i couldn't
i actually thought it was a very witty pleasant interview
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Thanks.
I’m listening on headphones, so maybe that’s accentuating it a bit.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
I know I don’t appreciate, that because Tony seemingly cannot get along with Colby, it sabotages a nice cost controlled player for our team. Especially if they look to fill in some role players if Pujols is to be resigned.
When you are a team that is not Boston or the Yanks, and you do no have tons of money to throw around, you need players/contracts for players like Colby.
"Pain is only in the mind. For me. Others, no." - Pornstache
"I also remember he threw the ball back to me harder then I threw it to the plate, so that was a little bit worrisome to me." - Boggs on Motte
by GasHouseMang on Jul 28, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
tom s provided that saying and it's very appropriate.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Ah.
Then thank you, Tom, and feel free to sue me for all the appearance money I received from the Canadians.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
mmm . . . filthy canadian lucre.
I’ll be bathing in loonies, if anyone needs me.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jul 28, 2011 11:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that was me.
It’s easy to name managers that have one particular player they just can’t deal with. It’s hard to think of managers for whom this is an annual or biannual occurrence.
Adam Kennedy was worth about a win over skip shumaker over the rest of his contract; not huge, but that extra win is worth something. This year, brendan ryan could be two wins better than theriot. How many wins will this trade cost us?
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jul 28, 2011 11:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Come to think of it,
if Brendan Ryan is worth two extra wins, and this deal for Colby might be worth two extra wins, then we have essentially negated all value this deal has with our previous actions of running the shortstop out of town. So it’s a zero-sum game, with only the next three years of losses coming out of things.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I would posit that Walt Jocketty, Bill DeWitt, and Dave Duncan have done far more for the Cardinals
and that Tony LaRussa takes a lot of the credit for their successes.
- Tony LaRussa didn’t make the trades for McGwire, Edmonds, or Rolen.
- Tony LaRussa didn’t draft Albert Pujols, JD Drew, Matt Morris, or Rick Ankiel
- Tony LaRussa didn’t pick up Chris Carpenter in the Rule V draft.
- Tony LaRussa didn’t trade for Woody Williams, Larry Walker, or sign Reggie Sanders.
Can someone make the case that Tony La Russa has ever managed a team with sub-standard talent to a division title? Haven’t we pretty well had the best team in our division his entire career in St. Louis? Would someone like to make the case that if Joe Torre had managed from 1996-2011 that he would have had less success than Tony LaRussa
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 28, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Carp was signed while injured.
Not a rule V guy.
This is what I don’t understand about the manager apologists. Managers in football and basketball can make an actual difference, because they create schemes and draw up plays. In baseball you can really only lose a game by mismanaging it. You can’t ever really win with managing unless the players do what they’re supposed to. The very best thing you can do as a manager is use a reliever in a spot where he SHOULD be able to succeed. Everything else is really just window-dressing. Baseball managers simply cannot affect the outcome of the game in a positive way very often. People just don’t seem to get it.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
while we ware giving credit where credit is due.
- tony LaRussa didn’t trade away Rasmus
- Tony LaRussa didn’t trade away Rolen
- Tony laRussa didn’t trade away Boogs.
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Jul 28, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, but he played an extraordinarily active role
in creating situations which dictated those players had to be traded. Not could be traded if the right deal came along, HAD TO. You’re really big on the general manager and manager’s jobs being clearly delineated, right? So how about Tony stay out of the GM’s business of deciding who should and should not be on the team, rather than going about in the media creating controversy and throwing his players under the bus to force the front office to make whatever move he wants made?
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
He also played an extraordinarily active role
in getting Mark McGwire.
in getting Matt Holliday.
in getting Woody Williams.
in getting Larry Walker.
How so?
I’m sure he lobbied hard for those players because he liked them, and that’s just fine. (Or, on the other side, lobbying to move guys you feel are bad for the team. Also fine. Privately.) Lobbying for players you like is not the same as creating a toxic environment that both forces your supposed boss to take an action and simultaneously handicaps his ability to do it effectively.
Now, if Tony had more to do with those deals than lobbying for the guys he wanted, I would be interested in hearing it.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Matt Holliday never came to St. Louis because of Tony's personality
but players have certainly left because of it.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
by azruavatar on Jul 28, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Thank you.
That was much shorter and sweeter than I was making it.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd really like to know
how he had any role any getting any of those players with the notable exception of McGwire, who had to waive a NTC to come to St. Louis, and even then, I would guess that Mac would have accepted that trade with Joe Torre in the clubhouse too.
Show me some proof that he was instrumental in acquiring those players.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
He lobbied for those players is what I meant.
If you’re talking about going to Mo/Jocketty and going to the media about wanting other players off the team, then doing the same to get a player on the team is definitely the same thing.
pointing to a player and saying "hey, he's pretty good, it'd be neat to have him" is easy
i’m pretty sure our FO is capable of seeing those opportunities without particular effort from the manager. we have excellent scouting
on the other hand, only very few people can create enough damage to force a player off the team. the manager and the coaching staff are on top of that list especially when they consciously involve the media
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
And very few players ask to be traded
and then continue to come out and perform remarkably worse than they did the year before when they asked for the trade.
People forget that the "trade request" was made TWO months before it was reported
That in itself raised a red flag in my mind. If it is was such a big deal, why wasn’t it reported sooner?
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
by bbfanatic on Jul 28, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent point
Someone was up to mischief and I suspect that someone was TLR who had his own agenda to undermine Luhnow’s Boy
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
It could be something as simple as a reporter got wind of it
and nobody wanted it to come out at all?
the trade request was old news by the time it was reported.
Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Mark Twain
Dude,
I lobby for players all the time. What does that mean? Zip, nothing, nada. I would guess that Joe Pettini lobbies for players all the time too, same with Dave Duncan. But they don’t have to go about acquiring those players.
FYI — if you always give you manager exactly what he wants, that’s a recipe for payroll disaster, mainly because the manager will always want a team like what the Yankees put together every year.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think the answer to your signature is officially "No."
Barring a reunion down the road.
by Ghostrider520 on Jul 28, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...I need to change it.
Something along the lines of “Colby will now round out the Blue Jays MV3” with a link to a crying baby or something.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Needs to be Canadianized.
“Colby will now round out the Blue Jays MV3, eh?”
Or you could insert a dontchaknow.
by Ghostrider520 on Jul 28, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Go to Grantland
and read the piece on the relationship between Tito Francona and Theo Epstein. They don’t think alike, but they respect the opinions of each other and are willing to work together. I have a lot more respect for Terry Francona than I do for Tony La Russa.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
No, it isn't.
Going to the GM and saying, “Hey, I really like so-and-so, can we get him?” or, “Dude, this guy just isn’t working out,” is one thing. Going to the media and creating a shitstorm which makes the player’s situation untenable and forces your GM to make a move while operating at a disadvantage because his dumbass manager is popping off in the papers about why he doesn’t like one of his player is not even close to the same thing.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Didn't LaRussa also go to the media
consistently and say that he needed another big hitter in 2009…then Holliday came over and hit .353 or something ridiculous and helped us to the crapshoot?
I believe he asked for an "impact bat".
He wanted one in 2008 too but nothing materialized.
by Ghostrider520 on Jul 28, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
He did.
And it was just as wrong then as it was when he ran down Colby. Going to the media and talking about what the GM needs to be doing and should be doing is in no way productive. If there’s no deal to be pulled off, then what does that do to the perception of the general manager? Or the organisation itself? Should the manager be going public and creating the perception that he and the head of the club are not on the same page, or that his boss is incompetent in some way? No, he should not.
Again, privately lobbying with the GM for things is fine. When you go public and start stirring up shit, NO MATTER WHAT SIDE YOU’RE ON, it all goes to hell. Internal debates should not be handled through angry, cryptic quotes to newspaper scribes. Period.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
And he should have shut his fucking trap back then too. Same in 2006 and 2007 when he was pining for them to sign Barry effing Bonds of all people.
Let the GM manage the team, YOU MANAGE THE TEAM GIVEN TO YOU. THAT’S YOUR JOB.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 28, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
didn't he also demand very publicly that we go pay
Top dollar for whathisname (man getting old sucks) who eventually signed with the angels for like 3/$30m? And not because we weren’t offering him ridiculous sums, but because he wanted to live on the west coast?
Do you remember how he then turned into a pumpkin and wasn’t worth a damn for the next two seasons?
Figuring out that matt holliday is a good player is not, in my book a sign that tony is a future GM.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jul 28, 2011 11:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
brian mf fuentes.
It came to me as soon as I hit post.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jul 28, 2011 11:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought it was pineiro.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Id say all things considered 06 would qualify. I think Houston was better that year.
Can someone make the case that Tony La Russa has ever managed a team with sub-standard talent to a division title?
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
The talent on that team wasn't really substandard.
They still had the MV3 and they had lots of injury issues that year.
It’s obvious that the Astros had better pitching but I think that the Cardinals had a better offense. Juan Encarnacion would have been the 3rd best offensive player on the Astros and he was the 4th or 5th best player on the Cardinals that year.
Pretty well a wash.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Bonds is also regarded as a world class asshole.
Even at that though you never saw Bonds benched by Leyland.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
LaRussa is an old school guy but old school guys who can't adapt fall behind.
LaRussa is quickly falling behind. The game is changing around him, and in many ways he’s helped force those changes over the years, but he’s not keeping up anymore.
I wouldn’t try to belittle LaRussa’s achievements very much but give Jim Leyland the teams that LaRussa has had over the years and I think he wins 200 more games than LaRussa has.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
This kind of argument is putting the cart before the horse, in my opinion
Tony La Russa’s program is not the priority, winning is. The reason he’s been here so long is because the organization keeps hiring him. That does not mean he is actually the best person for the job anymore.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
also
it’s a false analogy to compare managing a baseball team to every day corporate management. these are the best people in the world at what they do. the “everyone is replaceable” line of thinking just doesn’t apply. if you have someone who is supremely talented, you need to figure out a way to make it work. the fact that he was seeking outside hitting help (which may or may not be true) is not reason to cut him loose. several players have gotten outside help under TLR’s reign. difference being, that outside help was from mcgwire and was TLR approved
by prophetjohn on Jul 28, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Since you manage 15-30 employees
I assume that you DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!
by HollidaysofThunder on Jul 28, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we trade LaRussa for Leyland?
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously it's unfuckingbelievable
I really didn’t think VEB would turn into the PD boards.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
rec'd
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 28, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a professional team. You put Tony Rasmus on the payroll
and you make him sign a contract to STFU.
I mean, this is a bit much, IMO.
The real problem isn’t that some player had some problem with the manager/coach (seriously, how common is this? This happens ever year in every league at the pro and college level (and lower)).
The problem is that faced with this situation, we made a bad trade.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Do I get to see scrabble pitch Saturday?
It’s my 30th birthday so I picked up some good seats off craigslist before everything went down yesterday.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jul 28, 2011 8:54 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I saw scrabble pitch
last Saturday against the Rangers here in Texas. He walked the leadoff hitter and committed an error on the next play and took the loss in the Ranger’s walk off win. Also, Toronto put Patterson in as a defensive replacement in the right field in the ninth and the walkoff “hit” was a long fly ball over his head that a lot of people thought he should have caught. I have a bad feeling about this.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
As we all should.
Patterson will be the Cardinals starting center fielder. No way LaRussa will refuse to use Patterson’s Proven Veteran™ grittiness as often as possible.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 28, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for this anecdote, heathen.
I will now bang my head on my keyboard….shfvoiwhrgpvueoihrfgv9843wyf08djhnslidfisjdnbvljbsuvhsohvuhaougberuhfvouhoviuhOSHV;OUHSRIUHVIUE7YG9U3H45987YTIAJDHFGJUVHD;SEHGJDHGUHIUWHREOIT;OEKJHFG8EYIVN8
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
You were born on a good day
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jul 28, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
OMG
you’re both wrong! you were both born on good days! sure, july 28th hasn’t been especially notable lately but it has enormous potential! don’t let it slip away so easily! TLR is a jerk!
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
wait is TODAY everybody's brithday, or saturday?
i’m asking because i have a friend who is a labor/delivery nurse, and apparently yesterday was a ridiculously busy day. so people are having a lot of sex in october, for unknown reasons. also, today is my boyfriend’s birthday. and this time i thought of a gift all on my own!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
My brother, sister, and I were all born in July.
Sadly we all know what my parents were doing in October.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Watching the playoffs?
Fixing the cable?
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
don't be fatuous
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
halloween. french maid outfits.
connect the dots.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
Happy Birthday all.
A couple years ago I got a Chris Duncan trade for mine.
I think I got the better deal.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Funny
For my birthday this year, all I got was really drunk
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
This year on my birthday some Navy SEALs killed Bin Laden.
I think I got the better deal.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
Keith Law offers an interesting analogy in a comment he made to someone arguing Mo didn't get robbed but is just an idiot
I’d say yes, [Mozeliak] got robbed. If you have three Ferraris but only need two, and trade one for a toaster because you have bread but no toast, then yes, you got robbed.
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
by d-dee on Jul 28, 2011 9:06 AM EDT reply actions 14 recs
Perfect.
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
so does Scrabble now get dubbed Toaster?
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Given the previous associations Toasters
have on this site, I’m hoping so in a big, big way.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm ready to show up at Busch and throw tomatoes at LaRussa and MO.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jul 28, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you guys are just gonna kill this glossary aren't you
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yes
he’s in shortseason baseball
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
chances are high that there will be no LaRussa when Casey gets to the bigs
Also, Casey isn’t Colby. He might get to the bigs and be LaRussa’s best friend.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Didn't Tony Rasmus complain about the organization's handling of Colby in the minors?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
the first incidents I remember of Tony Rasmus complaining about the organiztion's handling of Colby
was his year in Memphis.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Also he probably won't get to the bigs at all.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
is casey rasmus any good?
what position does he play?
why the hell did we take someone else from the rasmus clan?
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
he's a catcher
but don’t expect much from him.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
I'm heading to the game tonight.
If anyone else is going and wants to meet up and say hey at the game, e-mail me at
aaronfinkel (at) inbox (dot) com
I’m off to Rooster for some gluten-free crepes (exciting!), but I’ll check my e-mail when I get home.
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
Ken Rosenthal
has a column on the trade over at FOX.
Well, I’ve finally identified the most difficult-to-find commodity in baseball.
Not a catcher. Not a shortstop. Not a third baseman.
Someone who likes the Cardinals’ return for outfielder Colby Rasmus.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Despite what anyone feels about TLR - my sincere hope is that he has a successful end to this season and promply retires
I’m so fed up with the unnecessary drama that has plagued this team. We really need a fresh start.
by peppermartin on Jul 28, 2011 9:26 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I'm afraid of what a fresh start will look like
I’ve enjoyed the second highest winning % in baseball over the past 16 seasons and the 2nd most postseason wins in 16 seasons.
that's fair
however, I’m one of those folks who don’t really believe that the success was due to TLR. I think that TLR is gifted in that he has been able to surround himself with competent people – but the man himself all too often has gotten in the way. If we hadn’t won the championship in 2006 (which we pretty much lucked out on), most would be viewing his tenure as one of the great disappointments in baseball.
by peppermartin on Jul 28, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
and 2006 was the year that by his own admission
he got out of the way of the players during the playoff run.
Jim Edmonds was the engine for those guys that year, not Tony.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
On the opposite side
If we had won it all in 2004 and 2005, when we were clearly the best team in baseball, it would be looked at even more fondly.
that's what he's saying.
we should have.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
The playoffs are a crapshoot...c'mon! What're you trying to say here?
I didn’t know that LaRussa injured Carpenter for the entirety of the 2004 playoffs.
I didn’t know that LaRussa made Mark Mulder, Jason Marquis, and Matt Morris all pitch worse in the playoffs than in the regular season in the 2005 playoffs.
I didn’t know that LaRussa planted Holliday in the LF spot solely to take a shot off the nuts in the 2009 playoffs.
no one is claiming those things
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
Amen Amen Amen
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
what I don't understand is...
How you trade your best chip, for a rental Starting pitcher, when starting pitching isn’t our biggest need.
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Jul 28, 2011 9:26 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Fix the problem at shortstop
and the “problems” with the starting pitching fix themselves. Q.E.D.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 28, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or how you trade a cost-controlled major league center fielder
And the only cost-controlled player you get back is a relief pitcher.
I mean, it’s unfathomable.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
+1 Dan
This is pretty much exactly what I was feeling yesterday. Tony LaRussa screwed the pooch on this entire situation.
This is his 16th year in St. Louis and he’s never lost a dual with a player. Not once. If Tony doesn’t like someone, the GM has to ship them out.
If the Cardinals wanted to trade Rasmus, that’s fine—no player is untradeable. The problem I have is, Tony spent nearly an entire year torpedoing Rasmus’ value This crap about his dog was just personal and nothing more.
Basically, I compare it to the Blues. The were unhappy with the development of Erik Johnson both on and off the ice (EJ liked to party. A lot.). Instead of bashing him and making it known they wanted him gone, the Blues quietly shopped him and got a haul that shocked the league. Two top-of-the-roster players for a former No. 1 overall pick. The Cards couldn’t do that because LaRussa shit all over Colby.
In response
The problem I have is, Tony spent nearly an entire year torpedoing Rasmus’ value This crap about his dog was just personal and nothing more.
Tony has spent a ton of time this season – especially lately – talking about the great tools and potential of Colby Rasmus. The only negatives from Tony this season has been that Colby goes elsewhere for coaching and it’s frustrating because he’s struggling and they can’t really do much about it because he’s seeking guidance from elsewhere.
he's seeking guidance from elsewhere
because the Cards hitting coaches didn’t help. Quite frankly, if fortune tellers could help Colby why should TLR care? As long as Colby produces on the field what difference does it make? TLR went out of his way to get Colby shipped off much like he did with Scott Rolen and Boog.
Yeah he was...
he’s hitting 13% better than the average major league hitter while playing a defense first position. He would have been the third best hitter in our lineup last night, a night when we started Skip, Descalso, Theriot, and Punto simultaneously and lost because we struggled to score runs.
DFA Patterson!!!
by guayzimi on Jul 28, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I should also add that Jay did more than anyone to cause the loss...
blowing the bunt in the 8th and noodling it to the backstop in the 9th. What would you be saying if Rasmus did that? Instead it was Jay and all I’ve heard from the media/twitter idiots is crickets.
DFA Patterson!!!
It was a really shitty throw that became even more unfortunate.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
last night
I listened to the post game interview with Moz and La Russa on KMOX
and very early in the interview, La Russa interupted and said something like, “before you ask me
any questions about the Rasmus trade let me go ahead and address it.” and then he went on
to ramble for a couple minutes choosing his words carefully, complementing Rasmus for his talent
and his contributions to the team and in the most graceful way posssible tried to convey the message
that, “Hey he was sturborn, hardheaded and you couldn’t teach him shit.”
At least that was the message I got. Now how much of this is true. I have no way of knowing but I do
suspect that the whole situation was somewhat mishandled.
stubborn, hardheaded, and you can't teach him shit?
Are we sure this isn’t a greek tragedy where we find out tony la russa is secretly colby’s father?
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jul 28, 2011 12:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Do you mean that Tony La Russa and Tony Rasmus ARE THE SAME PERSON?
Egads!!!!
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Colby, I am your father!
and then the blah blah blah about ruling the galaxy together. Then he cuts off his hand and trades him.
FIRE TLR
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 28, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
something something something....
Complete….
"He's the biggest thing to hit Japan since they dropped that bomb on Nagashima!" - Mike Shannon
by JasonMottesGlove on Jul 28, 2011 4:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i dont see how
a kid trying to fix a problem is a bad thing. if a kid in school cant learn in regular class, he goes to special classes with one-on-one attention. maybe colby just couldn’t get it from his coaches. it happens.
tim lincecum’s dad built his mechanics and keeps working with him. no one has a problem with this.
I don't think the Lincecum comparison works
his mechanics are quirky. There is nothing quirky about Colby’s swing.
they just needed to hire a coach from Alabama to interpret what Big Mac was saying
He does seem to keep it well-stocked.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
if Waino's not out for the season, does Colby still get traded?
i would guess yes
thoughts?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
it's all a little iffy in the rotation, IMO
none of our pitchers are having their “usual” kind of year. so it’s difficult to know how Waino would be this year.
more to the point, if we were not in a three-way tie for first, and had, say, converted 50% of those lost save chances….. I mean, who knows? Colby could look at TLR’s sandwich wrong, and be traded out. that’s why I don’t like the sheer personality-cult criteria for this trade.
and as nmstar says above. we might have gotten a better haul, at least.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Sure, but with kmac in the pen would we be looking for more help there
I would like to think we’d get a ss like furcal if anyone.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
by CodyG on Jul 28, 2011 9:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If Colby is having the same season
and the internal issues are the same, then yes.
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Waino's not out for the season.
He’s pitching in October, remember?
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
though I wonder
if Berk hadn’t Berk’d, they might need Colby too much to even think about this. maybe.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
could you repeat that?
i don’t speak swedish.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
ok
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And Pappys
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget last year
Last year at the deadline we traded an outfielder for a rental starting pitcher to shore up the rotation. The plan was to move John Jay into the traded player’s slot in the OF and make Jay a regular. That move failed horribly.
So what Mo apparently learned from that failed deal was that he needed to make the same deal again, but this time trade a much more valuable outfielder, and insist on some fungible relievers and Corey Patterson be added to the trade.
That was not the lesson I would have learned.
by tarakas on Jul 28, 2011 10:03 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I'm pretty sure full value wasn't possible
I would’ve waited until the offseason if I were Mo to move Rasmus, but apparently moving Colby was needed.
On the bright side, we upgraded (this year) without giving up a top prospect.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
I question that
Perhaps the team is marginally better with the trade the year. Perhaps…we shall see. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is not if Jay starts wearing down exactly like he did last year.
I would rather give up a top prospect than a young, cost-controlled, power hitting CF under control for another three season.
I agree.
I’d much rather have sent Taveras to Toronto and kept Colby. Rasmus is 24 not 34 and he’s proven, at least for one season, that he can be a 4 WAR player.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Colby is 24, almost 25.
In Cardinals terms that’s about as close to a top prospect as you can get.
We certainly don’t have anyone in the minor league system that can come close to replacing him any time soon.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Once TLR starts yapping
and Mo starts making calls instead of taking calls, it’s no longer possible to get full value.
this has been restated so many times that it's lost its' meaning to me
Jon Jay is projected to be around a .330-.340 wOBA the rest of the year, I don’t care about his 6 week slump last year.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Indeed
I don’t see any reason Jon Jay will fail horribly at holding down CF. That, however, has nothing to do with how utterly terrible this trade was.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
Agreed
Jay is fine, probably a 2 WAR centerfielder going forward. The problem is now we have anemic outfield depth.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
And we can't platoon Jay anymore. Or I hope we don't platoon Jay with .... I can't even
get myself to say his name.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Ugh, I shudder at the possibilities...
The Cardinals are focusing on middle infield help, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. While it’d be nice to add a shortstop after shoring up their pitching yesterday, there’s not much out there.
FREE THE ENERGY SAVING GREENE!!!
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
we approve these messages
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, Toronto had a good middle infield prospect and a good major league SS that is cost controlled
But we got Corey fucking Patterson instead….
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
no grit, no deal
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
the fact that they are even looking for MIF help makes me happy
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
The fact that they knew SS was a problem and traded Rasmus for other shit instead makes me sad
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
yeah, we really, really, did not need a starting pitcher
McClellan has done fine this year and is cheap and cost controlled.
The MIF was by far the biggest problem with this team.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
we'd be upgrading from replacement level players either way
A SP though, allows Kmac to go to the pen.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
KMac is better than replacement level
4.17 xFIP this year.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know, I just feel his loss of velocity is enough for me to trust the FIP more and not xFIP (meatballs)
/completely biased by the way, I want lynn to start.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Barmes or Carroll.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 28, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
So wait...
Tony LaRussa and Colby Rasmus were this?
Don't hurt me, I'm just a rookie fan!
by Chewy on Jul 28, 2011 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Why are you the way that you are?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I looked up the Goodbye Toby song for a laugh... started to cry when I changed it to Goodbye Colby...
It was early morning yesterday,
I was up before the dawn,
And I really have enjoyed your stay
Now Colby must be moving on
Goodbye Colby! I
t’s been nice,
Hope you find your,
paradise.
Come tomorrow,
feel no pain,
Feel no pain!!
Colby!! Colby!!
We love you!
Goodbye Colby!
Goodbye Colby!
Goodbye Colby!
Goodbye Colby!
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms...the game of ball is glorious." Whitman
by pattimagee on Jul 28, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh my god
Too sad
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Colby is just the worst...
Do you think when he told Rasmus he was traded he gave him a rock?
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Hanley was in a slump for 2 months and has had problems with managers in the past
Now he’s hitting again, and the Marlins didn’t ship him out of town for some rentals.
(Yes Hanley is more proven as a star, still, you get my point.)
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
I remember Keith Hernandez being in a slump once
His father watched some games on TV, and he called Keith up and helped with his swing. The story was that his dad had known Keith since he started playing, and he could see things Cardinals coaches would not. The team said, as I remember it, that they were happy for the help.
I do not remember Whitey ripping on him over that.
by tarakas on Jul 28, 2011 10:36 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Tim Lincecum's dad is a stage parent
Tim though broke away from his father as he’s gotten older and has listened to the Giants coaches. I was hoping Rasmus would do the same thing as he got older.
Pujols
His wife is who he gives credit to when he gets out of a slump. Why doesn’t Tony rip on Diedre…probably because she would kick his ass.
Colby is labled as lazy by some, yet Albert and Yadi find it too taxing to run out a ground ball 3-4 times per game. LaRussa’s double standards are always intriguing.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
Because Diedre is Pujols' slumpbuster
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 28, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
hmmm.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Colby doesn't have time for work off the field
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 28, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
that wasn't pot
he’s just always like that.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
works very hard at being insolent! (shakes fist)
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
A few years ago, Albert stated he wasn't discussing his swing with his wife anymore.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
Did his father do that for four years?
Besides, how do you know Keith’s story was true. He later lied about his drug use and blamed things on his manager.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 28, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
remember when Pujols "wife" fixed his swing?
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Is she not really his wife?
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
by spants on Jul 28, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
just seems hard to believe that she could see something no one else could (unless she has some kind of experience at such things)
I just always assumed it was a “hurt myself washing my truck”
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
She apparently was a good softball player,
and I’m guessing only 1 person has seen Albert’s swing more than her: Albert himself.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
If Michael Bourn is really available,
Why is there not more interest in him. Now that we have a hole in our outfield I think we should look into getting him and barmes. Wouldn’t cost us miller or martinez.
by rumors on Jul 28, 2011 10:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
He has trouble with screaming line drives hit directly at him...
this is all I know about Michael Bourn.
DFA Patterson!!!
Is he better than Corey Patterson?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
where are these holes in the OF?
obviously the FO is happy enough to let Jay start, I don’t see an upgrade anytime soon.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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right, I'm just saying that I don't see the FO
going out and upgrading at CF after giving Jay the job.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Oh I'm not disagreeing with you
I’m sure they will stand firm on the outfield. I was just more stating my disbelief…
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
GO GREEN WITH GREENE!!!
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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GIVE TYLER THE GREENE LIGHT
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
by d-dee on Jul 28, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Gentlemen, I believe you have your slogan.
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
we approve
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
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by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
TYLER YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUT ON THE RED LIGHT
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not really.
Kind of quiet, actually. Just read my morning post. Nothing happening at the trade deadline, hoping for a headline, etc.
Fucking team.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
It was quiet in Toronto
yesterday. I went to their site and all I found was one post with 81 comments and that was late in the afternoon. Mot people liked the trade though.
um... there were like 5 threads with some 2000 comments
where did you go?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
i was all upset
because i wanted to make new friends over there ’cause those lucky bastards have colby now, but i had to register and wait a day.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
WERE UR BUDS
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
i like you guys too.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
you are the diction
not me
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
but seriously, VEB has kind of taken to visiting other blogs in the SBNverse
apparently our slice of Joe Mauer is not enough.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I NO THAT THEY HAVE R OLD NINTENDO
BUT U CAN PLAY OUR INTELLIVISION WE GOT IN THE TRADE
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Draft Picks
Maybe the Cards really like the talent available in the draft next year and are going for broke this year, but plan on stockpiling draft picks for 2012.
Yadier Molina (option for 2012) – Type A
Albert Pujols – Type A
Lance Berkman – Type B
Chris Carpenter (option for 2012) – Type A
Adam Wainwright (options for 2012, 2013) – Type A
Edwin Jackson – Type B
Octavio Dotel – Type B
By my count (including the Cards 1st rounder) that means they would have 5 first round picks and 7 supplemental round picks.
Note: This is a joke. Obviously, losing all of those players to FA would be a terrible idea.
It'd be less of a Joke if we used their salaries to resigned similar players
Prince Fielder + Reyes!!
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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err
resigned sign
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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yeah, but I think he's more likely to be worth his deal.
opinions man.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Very possible..
I guess my point was that I don’t think it’s Albert OR Reyes and Fielder. I don’t think we could sign both of those guys.
FREE TYLER GREENE!
I'm not sure I see Fielder getting more than the Adrian Gonzalez deal
Reyes probably gets between 80-120M
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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I think Reyes gets is in your range but definitely towards the top.
Fielder is a bigger wild card to me. I see the Adrian deal as more in the range that he will get but more toward the bottom to middle of that range (not sure if i’m wording this very well)
FREE TYLER GREENE!
I think Fielder gets less than Gonzalez personally.
It’ll still be a huge contract but Fielder has a lot of “issues” that Gonzalez doesn’t. Namely Gonzalez isn’t a concern to eat himself out of the league.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
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by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Fielder is a lot younger than A-Gon was when he signed his deal
I think he’ll get that and more.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
2 years younger, but the body and defense won't help at all.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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True, but he might be a part-time DH
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
yankees I guess could go in for him.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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He has to be Type A, doesn't he?
I don’t see how he wouldn’t be, especially with the total crapification of offense in the league this year.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
don't the rankings take into account his last 3 years?
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Fire LaRussa and Mozeliak.
They have both done more to hurt the Cardinals than help them for several years. At least Skip is replacement level.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Jul 28, 2011 10:51 AM EDT reply actions
This would require a competent owner.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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C'mon now
Look at our farm system. Now go look at our farm system in 2006. You have to give Mo some credit for that.
Is La Russa a good manager? Yes. Is he worth constant headaches that make us trade away valuable assets to the organization simply because he doesn’t like them? No, he is not. It’s foolish to think that an organization this respected would have a hard time replacing Tony La Russa.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
With respect to the farm
I think most of the good in it is from Lunhow. Mo does sign the picks, and hasn’t traded the most valuable ones (until they put up two and a half excellent years with the big club). I guess he and LaRussa decide who gets called up, and there have been some questionable decisions.
If we are adding up the tally sheet, remember all the replacement-level and below at bats and innings thrown from last year.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Jul 28, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
We have been payroll constrained
I think that if you get rid of TLR, you solve a lot of problems for Mo. For one thing, I’m not so sure that Mo has more pull with Bill DeWitt than Tony does, and that’s dysfunctional.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think next year is TLR's last, no matter what.
He’ll move into second on the manager’s win list next year (barring a record-setting horrendous season) and have no chance of finishing first.
I wouldn't be shocked to see him go year by year for another decade
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 28, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
I’ve been thinking “this is his last year” for the last few years now. I honestly don’t know what would have to happen for him to leave at this point.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Done even considering it
He’s like Brett Favre
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 28, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Going into tonight's game
He’s 70 wins from second place on the all-time managerial win list. He will then be nearly 1000 behind Mack. Since he won’t catch Mack, I’m guessing he’s done after next year.
Mo's name is on the trade approval.
That we are payroll constrained means we need more competent personnel, not less.
I don’t know of any national analyst that likes this trade. The one’s I’ve seen call it a hubris driven mistake.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Jul 28, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Anything good that happens is
inspite of LaRussa and Mo, and anything bad that happens is their fault. That is what everybody seems to be saying. Face it, we traded a .260 pentulant hitter with a weird personaltiy.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 28, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Let us stop saying "we traded away a .260 hitter"
As if that someone makes the trade reasonable or acceptable. No, we traded an 3 WAR centerfielder who has 3 cost-controlled years in the middle of a slump that he hit.
Batting average sucks. Stop referencing his please.
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
111 OPS+
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Trade value
It does tell why his trade value was way below what many think it should have been. That is his average since he came up, not the result of his -.200 slump. If you are going to get outside help, it better make you better. Otherwise you will be in for criticism.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 28, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Batting average is not a comprehensive measure of a player's ability
Saying it is doesn’t make you opinionated, it makes you wrong.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
@$!#%&!!!!!
Why is the PD sending people here??? Go back to the TLR cheerleader boards….
"He's the biggest thing to hit Japan since they dropped that bomb on Nagashima!" - Mike Shannon
by JasonMottesGlove on Jul 28, 2011 4:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Are people who support anything TLR does banned?
I do not support everything TLR does, but he is a future hall of famer. Everybody blames him for all the bad stuff with no facts to speak of. If we just added 2 WAR as suggested below, this is a good trade for 2011. What will Colby do in the future? I predict he will have a long career and continue to have plenty of potential. (Read that carefully).
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 28, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this the stuff we're supposed to flag?
(not really going to flag it, but it prolly deserves it)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
this flagging biz reminds me of a post that was very green
involving a picture of a very creepy Star Wars character. Who was guilty of instigating that travesty?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
I think some folks were more balanced
Gave Mo credit for Holiday (trade&sign), Berk signing. But it has to be balanced by Boog/Theriot, Lohse extension, etc. I think overall Mo has been C- to D range. I don’t think giving an overall low grade is blaming Mo for all that ails the world.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
you mean the system that couldnt get this trade done wo Ras?
;-)
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You wink a lot.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
Andrew McCutchen is everything I wanted Colby to be
and more.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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or jay bruce even.
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
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by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
One of the purported benefits to this trade, IMO, is illusory.
Kyle McClellan, Octavio Dotel, and Marc Rzepczynski replace P.J. Walters, Brian Tallet, and Trever Miller.
This is “great” as the players being replaced were below replacement-value. But then again, so what? The players being replaced had played so little that even though they were terrible, they had little effect on whether the Cards won or lost. As bad as PJ or Tallet or Miller were, did they cause us to win or lose (m)any games? Not really.
I guess we hope to see that these new players can be relied on to handle opportunities that these “other guys” weren’t given. Sure, but the “opportunities” that these other guys weren’t given were instead given to Motte, Boggs, Salas, Sanchez, Lynn or left to starters. So, in another sense, these new guys will be primarily replacing our “good” bullpen guys.
We basically traded Rasmus for a poo poo platter of small marginal bullpen upgrades and a marginal #3 starting pitching upgrade, who happens to be a rental. And please don’t get me started on Corey Patterson, “a homeless man’s Randy Winn.”
As I wrote in a comment elsewhere, Mo just traded a dollar for two quarters, a dime, and a penny.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
That's a net, what, like .3 WAR gain?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
we get .3 WAR there
we get 3 War from Jackson talking over McClellan’s spot. And we get 1 WAR from Jay taking over Rasmus spot.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Do you know how WAR is calculated
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
yes
do you disagree with something I said there? Please illustrate what wrong with it.
Grit != flat out sucking.
There is a 0% chance Jackson is a 3 win upgrade, both in performance and just playing time issues
There is almost a 0% chance of Jay being a 1 WAR upgrade over Rasmus, since they are projected for similar numbers going forward
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
2 wins is actually pretty significant, with 3 teams in the race and all of us in the 86-88 win territory
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I never said it wasn't significant
However, it’s quite possible that we might have gotten a 2 win upgrade in another deal in which we got back better or cost-controlled players.
So, we still got fleeced by a more competent GM.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
We could have gotten a 2 win upgrade just by trading for a competent shortstop.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
or not trading boog at all.
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by CodyG on Jul 28, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not even
We got, what, 60 games the rest of the year. Rasmus is probably a win better and Jay and Jackson is probably the same over McClellan. The “upgrade” comes in the pen.
The problem is we could have upgraded the pen by just not playing replacement level players. Does anyone think Dotel would have been hard to get in a trade?
The only way this trade is not absolutely miserable is if Scrablle is the rotation, and I don’t have much confidence in management to do that.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you give too much credit to McClellan's value as a starter
and too little to Jackson.
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Yeah everybody is acting like he's a league average pitcher or worse
that he sucks. But he’s really good. And McCllelan is not.
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Jackson is probably a 3 WAR pitcher over a full seaosn
KMac is probably a 1 WAR pitcher over a full season. In 10 starts, that’s not a huge upgrade.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
3.5 in 2009, 3.8 in 2010 fwiw
i don’t believe kmac is a 1 WAR pitcher, but maybe that’s just me.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
Yeah, at this point I think it's fairly likely Jackson is more like a 4 win pitcher
Still, we’re past 100 games, so he doesn’t have a huge opportunity to add that many wins for us.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Regression
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Jackson is 3 WAR pitcher RIGHT NOW
So that’s a dumb thing to say IMO. And McCllelan has been worth 0.1 fWAR so far. Really doubt that’s going to get to 1 by season’s end.
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha
Since when do single season stats equal projections? KMac has an xFIP .040 points lower than his FIP, the inverse is true with jackson.
Take a look at their ZIPS projections.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I get your point.
But McCllelan’s just lays it in there 10 times and a game and he’s going to pay the price with an elevated home run rate.
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, I said "tops"
You have to admit that Jackson is at least a 1 win upgrade over K-Mac and that the addition of Dotel and Scrabble is probably a half a win upgrade over the guys they replace. So that’s 1.5 right there. It’s possible that they’ll be better than that.
Now, we could have traded a bag of baseballs for Furcal and assumed his salary and probably gotten a better upgrade, but I’m just talking about this trade.
It’s an upgrade, but not one that’s really all that good.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Oh yeah, my bad
I still 1.5 wins isn’t that much more than the difference between Rasmus and Jay though, especially considering the chaining effect it has on the rest of the outfield (IE Patterson or Craig gets starts that Jay would have had. Craig might not be much of a downgrade, but we all know Patterson will get at least equal playing time).
I think this is a .5 win upgrade overall.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
You think that Jackson is going to be worth 3+ WAR in 10 starts?
Who is he, Sandy fucking Koufax?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
three man rotation!!!
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Evilfrog's logic is always spot on
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think I'd call Edwin Jackson a #3 pitcher, he has a 3.20 FIP in the AL which is the same thing Carp has been doing in the NL
the upgrade of Kmac to Edwin is about 2 wins if Jackson is able to keep up his performance.
The benefit of having Zep and Kmac is that our LOOGYs can actually get outs.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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right, I'm just saying for the rest of the year we can probably expect about 2 wins more now
than what we were projected to have.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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you realize this trade isn't retroactive to opening day, right?
by prophetjohn on Jul 28, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
i do
i just thought we were much closer to half a season than 2/3rds of a season.
Grit != flat out sucking.
ah
also, we need to be realistic, here. there’s a distinct possibility that jackson turns back into the 4 FIP pitcher he’s been his whole career. his performance seems to be trending up the last few years, but this season is the first time he’s been in this league of performance
by prophetjohn on Jul 28, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
well here's hoping the last 200 IP with the white sox are because of don cooper
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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honestly
unless we do something about our short stop situation, I don’t think his FIP WAR is going to help us all that much.
Grit != flat out sucking.
my point is that he may still regress to his career averages
there’s a chance that happens on any team he plays for
by prophetjohn on Jul 28, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
In my quick looks at Fangraphs
The biggest thing that jumps out to me is that his home run rate is way down. No idea how related to luck/talent that is. It’s way lower than it’s ever been in his career as a starter. His Ks are down but so are his walks.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
It's as if someone told him to go the other way more and not strike out so much.
God, he’s going to rake for Toronto’s coaching staff.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
by Alxfritz on Jul 28, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha
I was talking about Edwin Jackson… did you just make an awesome self-mocking joke, or did you mistakenly think I was talking about Colby?
Because all those things are true for Colby as well, which is kinda cool and sad at the same time.
Although, Colby’s walk rate is only .1 behind last year’s pace.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Fucking meta, right?
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
by Alxfritz on Jul 28, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jackson has 10 starts left and this is a career season for him
I’m going to hazzard a guess that he’s not going to be worth 3 WAR the rest of the year.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
hah, "a homeless man's randy winn"
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm still in a state of belief, like I'm being punked or some shit
It’s really hard for me to actually believe that the Cardinals traded one of their most heralded prospects of the last decade for a package including a rental pitcher (not of the elite kind), a couple pieces in the bullpen (one of which now dons Colbys jersey), and Corey fucking patterson, who will now take up Colby spot in the outfield.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
Yes, catharsis by venting on VEB
I don’t think many of us had a good day yesterday.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
what pisses me off is all the local media talking about how great the move was
and the obnoxious 101 soundbite with some annoying nickel back ish song talking about how glad they are hes gone.
Im sure its supposed to be funny or something but its so on my nerves right now.
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Our local media in CoMo (1400 KFRU) was very depressed.
But those guys are really into baseball and are pretty decent most of the time.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Cards' SS to date
Theribeaux: 388 PA, .226/.313/.323, wOBA .284, Fld -10.4, WAR -.2
T. Greene: 117 PA, .198/.308/.267, WOBA .282, Fld -2.4, WAR -.1
C’mon Mo, here’s the REAL weakness on the team!
FWIW, he's had 2 hits and 2 walks in 9 games (33 PA) since the break.
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
yep.
without a ML ready SS that can be trusted with the job, this is a busted deal. I’m not sure how much I even care to watch at this point.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 28, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is there a player on this team UZR doesn't hate?
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His OBP was over .340 until last night. Now it's .339.
His wOBA is .308, which is not very good.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
a .308 wOBA with a .321 BABIP
imagine how much he’d suck if it dipped to .270-.280 range.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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This is what scares me about Jay and Freese,
but in a different way. They have really high BABIP, but their wOBA’s are not mind-boggling.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Well it's not that bad
Offense is way down this year and Busch is a pitchers park. He’s been close to average as a hitter, considering that.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
a .308 wOBA at SS in this run environment isn't too bad
DFA Corey Patterson
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
Especially is the defense is good.
Look what Brendan Ryan is doing this year.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Disturbing
The most disturbing part of this trade is that we were forced to take on Corey Patterson. This guy is a delusional man’s Kerry Robinson. Or maybe a blind man’s Curt Ford. Are we to believe we don’t have at least 6 guys in the minors better than this guy right now? I would rather see legendary strong man Amauri Marti Cazana come up and scare some pitchers.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
we did force someone else to take
Miller, Tallet, and Walters. I mean, we shipped a LOT of suck out the door.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Yeah, I'm not sure how Mo pulled that part of the trade off
now tony can’t be tempted to use anyone sucky in late innings, mwahahahaha
(cough) Valdes (cough)
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
We could have just released them you know
It’s not like they were being paid anything.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm glad
someone noticed that Cazana keeps somehow being neglected in lists of available right-handed outfielders. Sure, the Mexican league has a lot of A+ pitchers mixed in with the general AAA talent pool, but dude’s hitting well and has made big strides in the BB:K department.
Is it even possible to recall him from that league? I think we sent a pitcher down there a few years ago and recalled him, but the name I remember is Chris Duff—I don’t see him in any of the databases.
The inclusion of Corey Patterson (and PJ to a lesser extent) was a little baffling to me, as though the GMs didn’t have the heart to DFA their own players. Kind of like sending a friend to break up with a girl for you. At least, that’s my hope.
Since optimism is in my blood, we shouldn’t neglect the draft implications for next year. Having a solid fill-in for Waino down the stretch is great, and that he’ll turn into a couple of high draft picks means Rasmus did bring us back some top prospects. (He’s making 8.5 m$ this season, so an arbitration offer ought to be a no-brainer, barring injury.)
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
Yes, but the best part
is the players besides Colby that we got rid of.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 28, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Do we owe Strauss an apology?
We’ve been pretty hard on him for beating the “Cobly’s going to get traded drum” for the last few weeks. But um, he was right.
Grit != flat out sucking.
No
I think his and Bernie’s dogging of Rasmus is one of the reasons that supported the trade.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Jul 28, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree
Strauss was doing TLR’s dirty work. He was more propagandist than reporter.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
I could be wrong, but I don't think TLR and Strauss are buddies.
Not saying that TLR couldn’t have used Strauss… I recall many a testy moments on FSN where TLR talked disparagingly about Strauss articles. I think one was about an injury to a pitcher, but I can’t remember who.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
I'm still not convinced
that Strauss isn’t Tony’s evil minion, set out to do his bidding.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
Bissinger would be included in this category
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by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure who "we" is
but if people we’re dogging him about it, then yes.
That said, I’m still waiting for my phone call from the Chris Duncan trade.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
No.
When he broke the terms of the trade, he was wrong. Buster Olney had to correct him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
he was still taking a lot of shit
for even reporting that colby was available or being shopped. lots of claims that he was making it up or stirring the pot. colby was gone within a week
by prophetjohn on Jul 28, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes and no
I’ve been thinking about this. From now on, people really need to stop acting like every word penned by Strauss is a damn lie. He clearly has access to facts, and often reports them. I’m not saying he’s never been wrong about anything, but when it comes to the “just the facts” part of his job he was right that we were shopping Colby.
It’s his analysis and opinions that infuriate people, and they continue to suck.
I feel like I owe him a half-apology.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I'm okay with his facts
I believed him when he said the Cardinals were shopping Colby. Like you said, it’s when he offers opinions that he goes from reporter to shill.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
Yes, he has facts
but they always seem to be within an area shaded by “things Joe Strauss would assume to be true”, and are also usually accompanied by “what Joe Strauss thinks about the matter”, of which I could give two shits.
If this was just him reporting the facts, that would be fine. But that’s not what he does.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
hes actually right a lot it seems
people just hate him
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He's about 50/50
Hell, he had the deal wrong in his initial post, and he was corrected by Buster Olney, WHO COVERS THE WHOLE LEAGUE.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think we owe Strauss a kick in the nuts
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is Corey Patterson on my team
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Black people can't be gritty!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Yeah, I guess he's pretty gritty for a black dude.
Eloquent, too
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Correction
Bad black players are speedy. Bad Latin players are dynamic. Bad white players are gritty.
I’m not sure about bad Asian players… hard-working maybe? So Taguchi was definitely hard working (but this is somewhat unfair because he wasn’t even all that bad and was a bench guy, not a starter).
(I still love you, Taguchi-san)
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Yeah, I think Asian player who aren't that good are "hard-working and likable"
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Fuck I think I need to get better at my job
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
h8 u
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
nah
thats how his coworkers describe him
by RasmustheRipper on Jul 28, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
And they salute the umps.
Anyone ever watch the little league WS? They Asian kids are always doing that.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
So Taguchi
Weird, he seems like a player that would suck but everybody loves, but he wasn’t that bad.
In fact, his ’05 season was quite good. 1.7 fWAR in just over 400 PAs
The legend grows.
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he always provided average-ish production
He became overused sometimes, sure.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I loved So
ever since this game. Ties it with a HR in the 8th. I believe Farnsworth’s reaction after the game was something like “He hits one fucking homerun a fuckin year! FUCK!!”
Also, I saw him score on a walkoff suicide squeeze in 05.
I know those plays don’t really mean much in the course of a year or a career, but damn they were cool.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
I think I might have been at the walk off suicide squeeze game
In fact, if it’s the game I’m thinking of it’s the first Cardinals game I brought my wife to. It was fucking awesome.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I remember that game specifically because Pujols hit 3 HRs to help come back
and beat the Cubs. One of those crushing losses for the Cubs if you will. Those are fun.
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
MLBTR says:
Furcal drawing interest. Cards looking for MIF.
by rumors on Jul 28, 2011 11:06 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
sure as long as it costs us close to nothing.
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which is impossible
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I'm so angry that I think we should just say fuck it and trade for Reyes
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Why won't the mets trade him though if he won't even resign until after the season?
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Are there reports that they won't?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
yes
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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there have been for a month
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Probably just trade posturing then
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
how many reyes potential trade partner reports have you heard about over the last month?
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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this is exactly where I am too
just go all in, they obviously dont care about the future anyway
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, because the Dodgers will certainly want Riot back
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
if we give up boggs
I would be pissed. We should be able to get him for nearly nothing.
by rumors on Jul 28, 2011 11:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Furcal huh?
Sounds like a good deal for Shelby Miller to me. Maybe they can throw in that Aaron Miles guy too and we can send them Carlos Martinez.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
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by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
One day after a major 10-player trade, the St. Louis Cardinals have traded away pitcher Mitchell Boggs for shortstop Rafael Furcal and second baseman Aaron Miles of the Dodgers. Boggs has been mainly used as a relief pitcher his major league career and has been effective, compiling 147 strikeouts in 200.0 innings pitched. Former all-star Rafael Furcal will look to boost the Cardinals’ ailing middle infield, and Miles will most likely serve as a utility role, as he has done the last 2 times he was on the Cardinals’ roster.
boggs couldnt land both
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 28, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Fuck you blockquotes!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Hey, um, so, mysterui wants us to fuck.
Are you sure? I don’t think I’m ready for this…
He did, say, “Fuck you blockquotes!”
Well, if he said so…
….
Oh god what have you done???
by hr on Jul 28, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 14 recs
Gross, your avatar is watching the whole thing.
by Ghostrider520 on Jul 28, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 13 recs
this reminds me of the move Splice
which for some reason I watched the last half of on cable the other night. I must say….that was F#$%ED UP Adrien Brody!!
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by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
That movie was so bizarre
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
exactly
at that point I was done.
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by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
can't help but think that if we hadn't been dumb enough to get Theriot
and immediately name him the starting SS and get rid of a certain grand-slam hitting defensively brilliant SS we already had
we wouldn’t be in this position
oh but wait, the clubhouse didn’t like him
what a bunch of primadonnas and giant egos in this organization…
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
by d-dee on Jul 28, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would love Furcal
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
am i blind or did UpBaby not link to his BlueBirdBanter contribution for today
CARE AND MAINTENANCE OF YOUR NEW COLBY RASMUS
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
by d-dee on Jul 28, 2011 11:13 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
On the page they are thinking of nicknames for ColbyJack
How about CoalBoy or just Coal because that’s basically what AA gave up to get him.
Holy crap I’d sad
must be nice to have a diabolical genius for a GM
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
can we trade for him?
or, you know, send the van
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
How does that post only have 4 recs?
BBB should be ashamed
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
one's from me too
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
heh
Colby’s dad
I liked what I heard from an interview with him yesterday, seems like a good guy. I’m guessing we won’t have any issues at all.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
Bet they don't actually.
Grip it and rip it seems to be his philosophy and Farrell isn’t an inflexible old school manager.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
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by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm kind of interested to see what the
Worthless Lovable Losers get for Fukudome.
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 11:16 AM EDT reply actions
If it is truly
all in this year, why not go to the mets and offer the world for reyes.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
Luhnow on 590 right now...
he is giving the company line…“it makes us better now.” THEY HAVE GOT TO HIM! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Big upgrade in SP
Big upgrade in bullpen
small downgrade in OF – barring unforseen injuries that make Patterson play more than he should.
It might not even be a downgrade in OF this year. Especially if everyone stays healthy.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
WHAT?!?!!
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
INCREDULITY
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Well I mean there is a reason you don't have a job
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Explain to me how the upgrade in SP is significantly greater than the downgrade in the outfield
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by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
explain to me how, absent injury, there is a downgrade at all
considering that jay and colby have really similar projections going forward in 2011
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
People are forgetting about Craig!
What’s his projection also?
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
Aw Yeah!
We’re improving baby! Offensive juggernaut with shored up pitching. Future’s so bright I gotta wear shades!
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
I'm so worried about Berkman
if I have to watch weeks worth of an outfield patrolled by Schumaker/Patterson consistently Ima gonna be one disappointed puppy!
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 28, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
any word on berkmans shoulder?
i havent seen anything today?
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by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
he's playing in AAA right now
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
so was freese last year
Mulder made many rehab starts as well. I just can’t count on a person coming back from rehab. Not enough to trade a guy like Colby
Grit != flat out sucking.
Because Jay is not a one-for-one replaccement for Colby.
Remember all those PAs Jay got while Colby was healthy or playing? Now, Jay will get Colby’s PAs. But who will get Jay’s PAs, you ask?
Skip and Corey. Salt and Pepper.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
craig, ideally.
who projects to be better than both of them!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
who plays centerfield?
hard to have an OF alignment featuring Holliday, Craig, and Berkman
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 28, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
well i'm talking just PA.
the statement was, when colby was playing, jay got PAs playing LF or RF. so when jay is playing, who gets his PAs at LF or RF? i answer: allen craig. jay should not have to sit much. rasmus didn’t until the end.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
ah,
it would take some of the sting out of the trade is Craig came back as a capable centerfielder with plus offense that we’d have control of for years to come and we would value highly and never trade for a rental and a loogy and a player with negative value and we would love him ana;djf;asldfjk;p[w8hwg[79
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 28, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't buy the projections for Rasmus and Jay at all
They don’t seem to take into account that Rasmus was/is a superstar prospect whereas Jay is not.
Also, if we’re doing projections… Jackson’s projects to have a 3.91 FIP, KMac projects to have a 4.36 FIP. Over 60 innings that’s a difference of about 3 runs.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
why should i discount the zips projections to compare rasmus and jay
but rely on them to compare edwin jackson and kmac (as you suggested above)?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
You don't have to, just be consistent
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
what i am saying is
you’re telling me there is hardly a difference between jackson and mcclellan going forward, based on ZIPS. then you’re telling me that even though ZIPS projects hardly a difference between colby and jay going forward, it must be wrong.
and fwiw, jackson’s updated zips FIP is 3.47 going forward. mcclellan’s is 4.47.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
You're looking at the total seasonal stats, not the rest of season projection
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
right. sorry i keep doing that.
but either way.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
It's a downgrade
because our fourth outfielder is now Corey Patterson or Skip Schumaker instead of John Jay.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Aug 1, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Luhnow knows what La Russa doesn't.
When you don’t have anything good to say, just clam up. Nothing good can come from bashing your team or its players. Oh, if only Tony had such skills.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I long for the days where the Cards' trade deadline meant trading for utility infielders
Rather than running talented players out of town who the manager has a gripe with.
by olddomination on Jul 28, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Someday
I hope that LaRussa is gone and Lunhow is given true top down authority of the organization.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Ideally this will happen in 2 years
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Ideally for me
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
you'd think he would
i would expect someone with a law degree to know when to be quiet and when to talk and what to say
and i think larussa knows exactly what he’s doing
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
You know, that may be true.
Perhaps I should say I wish he had better judgment, then, rather than more knowledge.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
so instead of a blundering fool
he is a manipulative schemer. which is exactly right.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
of course
TLR knows exactly what he is doing. The shame here is that our GM cannot compel him to keep his mouth shut. The badmouthing (explicit or implicit) just drove Rasmus’ value down.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
Actually, that's not the company line, that's the truth
I does make our team better this year. I don’t think you can really deny that.
However, we might have been able to swing a deal that made us EVEN BETTER THAN THIS ONE DID.
In that sense, Luhnow knows how to shut his trap. Something Tony La Russa should take some damn notes on.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It does make our team better this year as long as Jay doesn't slump like he did last year.
I think a much better option would have been trading for a good SS and watching the pitching staff improve because they actually have a defense behind them.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Man there's a lot of cud-chewing on the VEBs today...
:=8.
GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Corey Effin' Patterson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:=8O
we're all feeling moo-rose
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Did we just trade for Miles Again???
:=8.
GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Corey Effin' Patterson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:=8O
in a metaphorical sense
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
give it a couple days
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Not that public opinion should matter
but we have pretty much become the laughing stocks of the internet world.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
it's a win-win?
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
but at least we should be entertaining while everyone laughs at us, right?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
i hate the fact that i'm defending TLR
but in an effort to be impartial, to what extent was colby to blame here?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
all over again!
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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A fair amount.
He needs to grow up and define his personal and professional relationships better.
However, when it’s reported he was discussing a long-term extension with the club just a few weeks ago, right before La Russa came out and launched yet another salvo, I have a hard time laying a bunch of blame at the kid’s feet for this mess right now.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
tht's kinda my thoughts too
but i also cringe at the extent that people are ready to turn speculation into fact.
All we know is that tony is a curmudgeon and that colby doesn’t take instruction well.
past that, we have no idea s to who instigated what, and who is to blame for escalating the situation to this point.
All I know is
The 24 year old kid seemed to be genuinely trying to work on his issues. The 67 year old curmudgeon has a long track record of pulling shit like this and is too old to learn new tricks.
Considering that I value Rasmus more than I value La Russa at this point, I’m just fine speculating on blaming the guy with the long track record over the kid being pulled in 12 different directions who doesn’t know any better.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 28, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
The bit about the extension, if true, was my “YOU’VE GOTTA BE FUCKING KIDDING ME” moment. Until then I was willing to accept that maybe things has just become untenable and there was more than meets the eye. I accepted that Brendan Ryan was largely disliked in the clubhouse, for example. I wasn’t ready to fire Tony La Russa yet.
But now I am ready to fire Tony La Russa.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
It's not just the Colby thing. It's this whole season that has really soured me on TLR:
Letting Batista destroy 6 run leads, playing Theriot so much and the usual let’s put in the crap lineup after we’ve won the series thing.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Have there been reports from other coaches that Colby's been a headache?
Because I could create All-Star team with guys TLR has run out of town
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Sebek and I made a complete lineup yesterday.
Couldn’t come up with a catcher, though, so I threw in Bryan Anderson.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
which might as well be correct
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Dusty Baker on the Cards trade:
“Not much I can do about it,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said. “It’s the same level of frustration. The rich teams get richer. They usually do something this time of year.”
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
That's right, Dusty
Cardinals = Yankees
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
then they trade for Ubaldo and then he just gives us the shit grin of his.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Ironically, more than one pissed off Cubs fan
refers to the Cards as “the freaking N.L. Yankees” when they complain to me.
Or the Cubs
The Phillies are by far the highest-payroll team in the NL. The second-highest? The Chicago Fucking Cubs.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
The fans are referring more to winning
than they are payroll. Most casual fans don’t know anything about payroll.
That's not much of a complaint then
“God, I hate that team… they are better than us despite the fact that we stupidly overpaid for a bunch of guys! Those jerks!”
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
who the fuck is he talking about?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
That quote doesn't make any sense.
I get that he is trying to subliminally plead with Jocketty to make a move, but the rest is nonsense.
by Ghostrider520 on Jul 28, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
other stupidity from Dusty Baker that immediately comes to mind
Like I said, Jay Bruce is a Golden Glove outfielder, Brandon Phillips is a Golden Glove second baseman, Scotty Rolen was a Golden Glove third baseman, and those guys rarely make mistakes.
make them field with boxing gloves and see what happens
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Of course
Looks who he has on his dice.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 28, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Don't mind him,
he’s still upset that Jocketty gave away his go-to pep talk guy in the clubhouse for two dime bags of oregano from D.C.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Oh,
and he probably considers Corey Patterson a giant upgrade over Colby Rasmus. You know, because he doesn’t ever walk and can bunt for base hits and steal bases while striking out a lot so as to avoid hitting into double plays.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Corey Patterson has the worst on-base-percentage (.292) of all
active outfielders with 4,000+ plate appearances. It’s fourth-worst all-time.
Seems like a good guy, though.
by Fendi Hotdogbun on Jul 28, 2011 11:47 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Can they just make him bunting coach?
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
he was a 5 WAR player once, if only we could get a time machine and switch the two.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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that was pointed out once
and then it was pointed out his UZR was 24 that year, which cast doubt on the validity of the measure.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
or it's just goes to prove single year samples suck when using WAR.
I’d rather it just average out the last three years or 2500 innings if possible
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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wash out your mouth!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
12 Ks, over 7IP and a double.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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And 9 walks, but none of them score.
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
his BB/9 this year is very good.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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2.88
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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I though he gave up a bunch when he had his no-hitter?
Must be thinking of someone else.
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
He did, but he's not a wild guy
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
the good news is that he hits 98-99 a lot
which will be fun to see from a SP.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Get us primed for 2013, mirite?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
If this hadn't been his contract year
with relatively little hope of retaining him, this trade wouldn’t be so damn ugly.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
so good, the chances of us resigning him falls between 0% and 100%
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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So you say there's a chance!!!!
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Patterson
I thought this guy involuntarily retired like 5 years ago. How does a guy like this stay in the league? He has stunk up rosters for a long time. I would rather have Stavinoha roaming the outfield than this guy, at least he might kneel down and hit a home run once in a while.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
A cubs fan
was over at my house last night (don’t ask) and he said that Baker put him in the lead-off spot cause he was fast but he always swung for the fences so he sort of negated his value. I immediately thought of Willie Mays Hays from ML2.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
I'm a power hitter now, coach!
I will now refer to Patterson and Theriot as “Black Hammer, White Lightning”
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Colby was on first for that home run.
/tear
A lion does not concern himself with the opinion's of the sheep. - Tywin Lannister
Genuflected Dingers
"Pain is only in the mind. For me. Others, no." - Pornstache
"I also remember he threw the ball back to me harder then I threw it to the plate, so that was a little bit worrisome to me." - Boggs on Motte
by GasHouseMang on Jul 28, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yuck
I can’t bring myself to sift through all of yesterday’s post-trade threads, so I’m sure it was discussed at some point. Sorry in advance for the redundancy.
Has anyone else been incredibly irritated by 101.1’s coverage of this move? The Fast Lane douches had this whole bit where they were talking about how dumb Colby was, how he probably signed his last contract with an X because he’s obviously illiterate, etc.
Then this morning, they’re playing this “I feel so much better…now that you’re gone forever” shit sandwich of a song, interspersed with audio of Colby’s exit interview and that play from a couple of days ago when he was hit by the liner on the bases. There is absolutely no commentary, no analysis, nothing. Just this knee-jerk, edited schtick. Pretty unprofessional if you ask me.
Think what you want about the trade, but it is so frustrating how the media has just vilified this guy. I’ve literally never heard of a fan/media base turn on a guy this quickly. Very disappointing.
Sorry if this is a re-hash…I had to get it off my chest.
sounds kinda like the antithesis
of the ‘fuck TLR’, ‘fuck Mo’ one-sided narrative in the post-trade threads.
There’s got to a middle ground here, right?
Except
TLR has been a manager forever. He should know better than to vilify a player to the media. That’s just dumb when you want the kid traded. You’re not going to get proper value out of him.
by Mulliganstew on Jul 28, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I posted to the same extent last night
Cliff Saunders on late night, and Zach and the Coach are the 3 stupidest people on the radio in my opinion. ‘Coach’ called Tony LaRussa an NFL coach today. The dude only knows football, and he should only talk about that. Even Bernie Miklasz has been terribly unprofessional during this entire ordeal. 101 espn needs to fire all their radio personalities and hire people who are competent.
When they played that ‘I feel so much better….now that you’re gone forever’ segment, I wanted to turn around, drive to St. Louis and beat them both with ball-point hammer.
A lion does not concern himself with the opinion's of the sheep. - Tywin Lannister
i think it might be time for the baron to go into radio
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
I'm pretty sure Saunders took a shot at RB too
Something about an RFT article about the trade.
by Mulliganstew on Jul 28, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That most likely would have been me, then.
Good. Shoot away, fucker.
Or die trying.
by the red baron on Jul 28, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
come at me bro!
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
dude
The commenters on your RFT article were….interesting. I don’t remember RFT readers sounding like that.
WITH A THOUSAND SWEET KISSESSSSSSSSS
I’LL COVER YOU
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
by mysterui on Jul 28, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
was your article the one with the anime facepalm guy?
if so well done!
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It was all just so childish.
It is a textbook example of cognitive dissonance. I am pretty sure I’m gonna use it next time I teach PSYC 101.
“Hey kids, are you pretty sure your GM got raped in a trade? Well, just go ahead and rip the talented guy everyone but your GM seemed to want and you’ll feel better about the move.”
I hate the trade and will miss Colby and
im annoyed with 101 lately about this
and I didnt hear yesterday but the thing with an X kind of made me laugh when I just read it
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone that knows me knows I know nothing about advanced stats
I called the Cliff Saunders show last night on 101.1 ESPN. (I know, my first mistake.) I tried to (mistakenly) teach him the error of his ways when it came to the Colby trade. The most advanced stat I brought up? OPS. He then went on a rant about how glad he was I didn’t bring up WAR and started talking sock batting average. Our media confuses me.
Theres a reason he's on late night...
The dude is a weasel who takes everything face value and believes everything he’s being told by the STL media. He basically then rehashes everything on the radio that he’s heard from his colleagues. Everyone on that station had it in for Colby Rasmus. Not a single person on that station wanted Rasmus beyond this year.
A lion does not concern himself with the opinion's of the sheep. - Tywin Lannister
Indians just got Fukudome for a couple of marginal prospects
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
If he DH's, it's totally worth it.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Who's their DH right now? Duncan?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I think it might be Hafner if he's healthy/
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Doesn't Fukudome have 0 HR?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Does that matter?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
somewhat
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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.370 OBP
leadoff hitter!
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Johnny Damon DHs for the Rays
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Thanks to Manny Ramirez
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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I can't believe the Cubs are throwing in the towel...
Al will be outraged.
Also, why do we need middle infielders? Is Skip an outfielder now? Have we given up on Theriot?
DFA Patterson!!!
i think we have given up on Theriot
since we are shopping for a short stop.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Hey did you see how close he was to getting that throw to Yadi last night.
It almost made it the whole way in the air. IN THE AIR!
FREE TYLER GREENE!
Yeah, I think we've given up on Theriot
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
actually skip as CF, OF
theriot to second and a defensive upgrade at short could really help this team
Come on 2009!
I wonder if we could trade Patterson to the Red Sox for marginal prospects.
Aren’t they looking for an outfielder?
by Mulliganstew on Jul 28, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
We could have him wear a BJ Upton mask if we had to.
No one would notice.
by Mulliganstew on Jul 28, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd take a used jock strap
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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If it was Roger Clemens' jock strap
There might be enough residual juice left in it to convict him. That evidence would be worth a lot to the feds.
by Mulliganstew on Jul 28, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The Red Sox have heard of on-base percentage, sadly
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
We got Edwin Jackson for a guy hitting .246
I bet the Red Sox would send Pedroia for a guy hitting .252
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
completely OT and i know the rules about handegg, but
im looking for anything as a pick me up. Almost as big a Texans fan as I am a Cards fan. If we sign Asomugha, how happy should I be? If the Colby trade puts me at a 1 from 1-10 in overall well being. How far does Namdi move the needle?
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
Manning still plays for the Colts, right?
I’d say a 5
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 28, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I've got good news boys and girls
I have figured out the method behind the madness. Here it goes:
We are currently injecting Corey Patterson with the last of McGwire’s steroid stash form the mid 90s. Patterson will start for the next 4 games and go 12-16 with 8 HRs, 2 doubles, and a triple, while making several incredible plays in RF. The Pirates, in desperate need of another bat to go along with McCutchen, give us a B level prospect for Patterson. The steroids begin to wear off, but somehow, Patterson has regained his lost confidence and has an incredible last two months of the season (350/420/600). His confidence becomes hubris toward the end of the season, and he begins not heeding McCutchen when he calls Patterson off in the outfield and gives a series of interviews stating that he is now the face of the Pirates. Even with Patterson’s incredible finish to the year, the Pirates miss the playoffs by one game. Enamored by his performance, the Pirates give Patterson a 4 year extension, and move McCutchen to LF. Being only 1 win from the playoffs, they also decide to sign Carlos Beltran to a 5 year/60 M deal to play RF, effectively crippling their payroll for years to come. McCutchen, hurt and disappointed, gives a series of interviews in November and January criticizing the Pirates front office and Clint Hurdle. Patterson gives an interview in February, saying that a true team leader would never make his dissatisfaction public, and challenges McCutchen to a footrace to be held at Spring Training. When McCutchen refuses, Patterson and other members of the Pirates (who have by now grown to love Corey) and especiallyClint Hurdle, call McCutchen a coward and a killjoy. McCutchen, who has had enough of Hurdle and Patterson, requests a trade. The Pirates, realizing the situation is untenable, shop McCutche around for 2 weeks during Spring Training. The Cardinals, who have been planning for this all along, offer Matt Adams, Jon Jay, Tyler Greene, and Trevor Rosenthal for McCutchen and Pirates catching prospect Tony Sanchez. The Pirates, who have not gotten any better offers due to other teams realization that the Pirates have to trade McCutchen and remembering how well the trade went last time they dealt a home-grown stud to a division rival, accept the Cardinals offer. McCutchen goes on to put up 30 WAR over the next 5 years as the CF of the St. Louis Cardinals.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
That made me dizzy.
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Where's your iPhone
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
No way I could pull if that epic post in the iphone
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 28, 2011 12:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm sorry volsn but
TL;DR
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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beeeep!
sorry, cody, the meme is “i’m not reading all that”
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
What does this mean?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 28, 2011 12:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
too long; didn't read.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Nevermind
Sorry bid some people have a million annoying post and .gifs, some just one long one
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 28, 2011 12:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
internet memesplanation
“too long; did not read”
also pronounced “teal deer” which leads to cerulean ruminants
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
Figured it out
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 28, 2011 12:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's honestly what I used to think to myself the first several times I saw "tl;dr"
Because I didn’t know what it meant, and that popped into my head as a joking pseudo-explanation.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
you know, a van and a big sack will be much easier and much faster
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
where's Fredbird!!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
toronto
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
DANGER Fredbird held up at the border!!!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
his b.o. is considered a biological weapon
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they misinterpreted the beaking
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
how, Ace is a bird too, they should know about that
or is beaking considered impolite in Canada?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
we should ask them if they do beaking up there
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it's cruel of me to enjoy watching MooCow have a cow, right?
It’s definitely cruel to keep posting this link to pictures. ok i’m a dirty rec-whore. I’m uh… I’m doing it for mojo! that’s it!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
give mojo some green, people
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
tyler greene?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
by d-dee on Jul 28, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I will settle for that.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
can someone tweet strauss the definition of irony?
JoeStrauss Joe Strauss
Irony: Edwin Jackson attended Shaw H.S. in Columbus, Ga., across the river from Phenix City, Ala., where Raz’ attended Russell County H.S.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
Can't he let it go
Colby’s gone, you’ve succeeded, now kindly shut the fuck up and go back under your bridge
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 28, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He'll spend about a month
With random Rasmus articles (Colby’s dad will definitely provide ammo for Strauss to use) and he’ll follow those articles with whoever lands in TLR’s doghouse next.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 28, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
is it ironic when someone obviously doesn't understand irony?
no, wait. it’s just sad. or pathetic, which i think we already knew about strau. sorry, i just heard the news today, and am still in “hating” mode right now.
FIRE TLR
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 28, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't stand it when people confuse what irony is
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 28, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i thoroughly enjoyed this. thank you. here is a rec for you.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
i read the news today oh boy
about a lucky man who made the trade
and though the news was rather sad
well i just had to laugh
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
actually, my favorite beatles' song
oh, no! i’ve unleashed one of the unholy triumvirate of VEB arguments! remember the days when we had really trivial subjects to get heated about?
FIRE TLR
what, like the oxford comma?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
there isn't a single thing in that song that's ironic
woman spends 3 minutes listing things that are unfortunate, not ironic
FIRE TLR
thankfully VEB knows exactly where to go for a knife.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
You remind me of a character in the show Game of Thrones, Arya
And she knows what to do with the pointy end.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
are you medically cleared for a curtsey yet, lady?
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
no
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe the title is ironic
shes playing macho head games!
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not just someone
He gets paid to write in the English language for a news outlet.
So it’s not just sad, it’s an epic tragedy.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
wat
@JoeStrauss I don’t think you know what Irony means.
@CodeeG Or maybe you don’t know enough to get the irony
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
by CodyG on Jul 28, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Good response you asshat.
Joe Strauss: Defending points by taking personal shots at people
A lion does not concern himself with the opinion's of the sheep. - Tywin Lannister
Heh. He called you riffraff
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I noticed
my disdain grows
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
strauss has no fucking clue what irony means
but he does a great job of being a moron.
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
twitter
This is the first time I've laughed out loud in two days
Can someone submit this to his editor?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
cody knows enough about irony not to capitalize "irony" when it's not the first word in a sentence.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
he'll just reply "suck it"
it’s useless
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
He just apologized to me
So there’s that
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
for what?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
It's a pretty good exchange.
Look through my timeline
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
what is this one in response to?
That’s a completely bush league response from a reputed journalist.
i dont understand twitter
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
Bill Hall DFA'd
might as well pick him up
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
2005, actually
Since Theriot and Patterson are back on the same team again.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
It was nice watching the Toronto highlights
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 28, 2011 12:37 PM EDT reply actions
I kind of like that SBN'ers have a little "care and feeding of" posts for their respective players
although no one listened to us about Boog, but … theyr’e a bit strange over there.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
If Mo called the Mets and offered them Rasmus for
Reyes. Wouldn’t they at least be interested. Reyes being a rental. I mean if we were going to give Rasmus up for a rental, why not Reyes?
by rumors on Jul 28, 2011 12:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
That would arguably be a worse return than what we got...
the Kaiser is a clear upgrade for the rotation and scrabble might be a starter too.
DFA Patterson!!!
My googling skills are failing me, but I assume Reyes would be a type A.
And Reyes has been almost worth 6 WAR more than Theriot this year, so he’s more of a win-now upgrade than Jackson is. Not to mention that the me liking all of the players on our team factor. That should never be underestimated.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Jul 28, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
did our bullpen just lose all the crafty old guys?
read: crappy
so
basically
Jason Motte’s glove is running things back there?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
pssst! Valdes
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
he's 33 or so?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
wait, Valdes will be in charge of the madhouse?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 28, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
oh we got him alright
he’s like an std – easy to get, hard to get rid of
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Pretty sure Motte's glove has always run things.
It’s sentient like the hat from Meet the Robinson’s.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont know what that is so im just going to pretend you said Harry Potter
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Works for me.
Six of one half dozen of the other there.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Aug 1, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Why yes...yes I am...
Muahahahahaha!
"He's the biggest thing to hit Japan since they dropped that bomb on Nagashima!" - Mike Shannon
by JasonMottesGlove on Jul 28, 2011 4:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Arguing with people who don't know sabermetrics/advanced stats
Is seriously like arguing with someone who speaks a different language. There is no way to prove your point
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 28, 2011 1:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i'm sure the other side of the coin is true as well
“man, arguing with these guys is difficult; they pull all these stats out and it’s like they’re speaking a different language.”
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
It's a slow process
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
teach them the language
that’s the only logical way to find out if they’re in fact as close minded as you suspect
otherwise, SSS
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
There is as long as they are willing to listen and be reasonable.
What’s tough is arguing with people that just think that all sabermetrics are bullshit and refuse to even try to understand what they are.
FREE TYLER GREENE!
Yesterday was a bit of a struggle
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i don't know what babip is
but i will not educate myself by reading those helpful links
because i know what babip is
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
Yeah I applauded the patience.
If he would have been a little more open minded would have been a good discussion……ok a lot more open minded.
FREE TYLER GREENE!
"i gave you $5 and you gave me only two back!"
“well you see the exchange rate…”
“WHAT?!? talk english!”
“well, this is england sir where we speak…”
“give me my money!”
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's like my honeymoon all over again
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
doesn't matter
had sex
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
by il rosso on Jul 28, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
tell that to the blockquotes
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it's like pizza
even if it’s bad, it’s still pretty good.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd think that he'd pay her to endure it
wait, he doesn’t make any money…
hm….
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
i got sucked into one last night
the guy’s argument was “well if rasmus keeps hitting like he is now we won’t feel so bad about the trade.” I just don’t even bother anymore.
"I wonder if I put on a uniform and told La Russa I wanted to play for him if I could be a big leaguer too?"
"that all depends. are you gritty?" "You would need a mediocre decade of MLB experience first" "do you have a goatee, are you short, and do you try really hard?" "Are you willing to play four positions terribly?"
haha
i assume no one understands economics
no one
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey guys! How's everyone's day going?
I had a CRAZY dream Corey Patterson was on team! CRAZY!!!
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
are you aware that he sucks?
well, apparently he DOES!
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
(I honestly didn't know he was still in professional baseball until yesterday. That's a huge vote of confidence.)
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
he's just a super secret weapon
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
That means he can play second base right?
Right? Please tell me that’s what it means.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
well he does qualify as "anyone" so
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
just lump it in with the current bout of depression.
"I wonder if I put on a uniform and told La Russa I wanted to play for him if I could be a big leaguer too?"
"that all depends. are you gritty?" "You would need a mediocre decade of MLB experience first" "do you have a goatee, are you short, and do you try really hard?" "Are you willing to play four positions terribly?"
seriously, how do we manage to end up with someone like this EVERY SEASON?
it’s like we’re doing it on purpose
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
obligatory:
because TLR
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
In unrelated news
The Nyan Cat is now an android live wallpaper
This is what I imagine Colby was singing every time LaRussa would talk.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 28, 2011 1:08 PM EDT reply actions
well, my day just got a little better.
"I wonder if I put on a uniform and told La Russa I wanted to play for him if I could be a big leaguer too?"
"that all depends. are you gritty?" "You would need a mediocre decade of MLB experience first" "do you have a goatee, are you short, and do you try really hard?" "Are you willing to play four positions terribly?"
This is my favorite VEB comment of all time
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
oh my, this is bad publicity for the Tyler Greene club.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Not with the President of his fanclub being such a liability to his cause
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
damn, do I have to re-assume the position?
I was doing so much better with no expectations.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
How so?
If it weren’t for you, no one would have even noticed a TG Fanclub member did it. Or at least, they wouldn’t have put two and two together.
So you’re just as much at fault as I am!
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The Tyler Greene Fan Club does not endorse this man's actions.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
by CodyG on Jul 28, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd like to know this also.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
Does Martinez really have the nickname "little Pedro"?
that’s pretty unfair for Carlos
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
hey, there be a Penny vs Piñiero
remember the last time that happened?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
needs more animated motion
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
yours doesn't have a punchline
jerk
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
where did you pull this out of?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
ah, yes
this would be why the thread is so slow for me
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Why, are you on 28.8K dial up or something?
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Jul 28, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I was at that game
It was awesome. And then Penny didn’t pitch again all year.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 28, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
If we got Furcal
I would forgive Mo his transgression of trading Colby because we genuinely would have upgraded this team.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 28, 2011 1:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
FA after this year...
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
eh, I'll still take him
for his defense alone. I have no clue what it’d take to get him, though. I’ve wanted Furcal in the birds on the bat since his Braves days.
Miller+Adams
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Miller+Martinez+Adams
you mean.
Wouldn’t want there to be any way that the Dodgers could think we were trying to rob them.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man, what if they found out about Taveras?
probably should throw him in to be safe.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
hey
so i’m reading through the gamethreads, since i didn’t participate, and there’s this whole thing about flagging people. are we trying to do that now?
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
If it is warranted.
Flags on comments help if someone is trolling or is being blatantly inappropriate. Right now, no one flags. I don’t want the pendulum to swing to everyone flagging all the time. Instead I’d like to find that happy middle place where egregious comments get flagged by 4-5 people so that I don’t have to sift through threads as often.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
consider auto flags from me on all messages from anyone called stanley
just saying
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
backstory?
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
So did everyone hear that Jerry Meals had his address, phone number etc. posted and was getting death threats?
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 28, 2011 1:23 PM EDT reply actions
Jim Joyce blew a perfect game
I’m not justifying it by any means, but a perfect game is more cause to be upset than game number 102 against a non-division foe
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 28, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I live 15 minutes from Jerry Meals
I shit you not. The threats were front page top fold news story today in local paper.
People are idiots.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 28, 2011 1:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
...and the address is?....
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
I need advice
I have a co-worker, woman in her late 40s, who is nominally a cardinals fan. Her husband is a big cards fan. I made the mistake of telling her how depressed I was after the trade. She came in today telling me that she and her husband thought the trade was great and needed, using arguments that you would expect “older” baseball fans to make (really no disrespect meant there, but for the most part the older one is, the less likely they are to be able to look past BA, ERA, and “hustle.”) I have tried a cursory explanation of BABIP and regression, as well as the value of cost-controlled years, to no avail. Should I dug deeper and pull out the big guns, or just drop it?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 28, 2011 1:24 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
let it go. And never talk baseball with everyday fans again. It's not worth it.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
by Alxfritz on Jul 28, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
MIKE MATHENEY IS THE GREATEST CATCHER OF ALL TIME
HERE IS A CHAIN E-MAIL WITH SOME CLIP-ART EXPLAINING WHY.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
this is the answer.
no stat sheet needed. the people to argue with are the ones who should know better. like mo.
FIRE TLR
laugh through your nose
say “charming” and walk away.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"How quaint."
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
by Alxfritz on Jul 28, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They probably need a simple appeal to authority argument
That’s why they feel the way they do in the first place. The Al’s of the world have them feeling they are plugged in.
Maybe they know Ken Rosenthal, if they watch Fox Saturday baseball. Share his column about how this deal is viewed nationally and amongst other teams. That will work better than any lengthy and reasoned arguments.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 28, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why would you bother with this?
If you know they aren’t going to understand or believe what you say, roll your eyes and let it go.
Just tell him to fuck off
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Rasmus interview about trade
I found very telling that when asked about La Russa, Rasmus said, “I hope he’s happy.” To me that says that he believes LaRussa wanted him gone. Any employee of a company has a more difficult time working when said employee believes that his employer wants him gone. I hope he thrives in a better working environment and honestly hope he does well. He seems like a very quiet and misunderstood person. The Cards are my favorite team but this is a very short sighted error for a team that may not have Berkman or Pujols next year.
by Tamarackian83 on Jul 28, 2011 1:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
What I found interesting
Is that you could see Colby was holding his tongue and wanted to say something else, but what came out was “I hope he’s happy,” and really that’s all that needed to be said. I just hope Colby knows that we know he was run out of town and we’re happy he gets a fresh start.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 28, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I really want to get his e-mail address and write him
something to the effect of:
We know what really happened, and we wish you the best with the Jays. Many a Cardinal fan mourns your departure. Please, if you ever hit free agency and LaRussa is gone, consider St. Louis as a potential landing spot.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
It is debatable whether or not Colby knows how to use email
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
he has a myspace you jerks
and he did say if he wasn’t a baseball player, he would want to work with computers, and that was ages ago.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
But but
Southern people are nincompoops, they have those accents and everything. He probably thinks the sun is a chariot wheel being driven by one of the gods.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
......it is, right?
Hit me up on Google+
by jd is legend on Jul 28, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
He seemed very restrained and professional in his comments. Then The Fast Lane douches spun that as a spoiled kid who couldn’t read or write.
Awesome.
Demarco Farr
Likes to cuss out valets for no apparent reason at the Super Bowl. But yeah, Rasmus is spoiled and pampered.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 28, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm depressed that his best interview ever
was his departure.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
actually
“i hope his happy” doesn’t equal “i hope he’s happy i’m gone”. it could equal “i wish him well”
it’s all speculation
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
the next time my wife says "i hope you're happy"
i’m going to test that theory. i’ll post the results.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
that's the way I took it. He was just trying to stay positive and not start any trouble.
Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Mark Twain
i believe that's the PTBNL
give it back
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you guys aren't, you really need to be reading Nate Grimm at insideSTL
He’s awesome.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I feel like you know this guy or something.
Also, insideSTL is something of a cesspool.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
I mean, we're "Twitter friends"
But he’s a good guy. He’s always asking for my help on sabermetrics concepts. I think he’s a really good writer.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
If we weren't blog friends,
I’d make fun of you right now.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
by azruavatar on Jul 28, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate you
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Dear Nate,
<3 Rui
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
by Alxfritz on Jul 28, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
God I hate all of you
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
can i get a scouting report on scrabble?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
47 points.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
by il rosso on Jul 28, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
* Scouting Report on Marc Rzepczynski: There is a lot to like in the young LHP… overall as a reliever for Toronto he has a 2.90 ERA, and the hitting line against him is .203 / .296 / .287. That’s outstanding … this season lefthanded batters are hitting .159 against him with a .247 OBP and a .203 SLG with only 3 XBH allowed in 61 at-bats. That’s exceptional, especially considering that he was facing those tough lineups in the AL East … among notable LH batters to face Rzep, Carl Crawford, David Ortiz, J.D. Drew, Adrian Gonzalez, Robinson Cano and Curtis Granderson are combined 9 for 39 (.230) in their careers against him… Craword is 1 for 7, Drew is 0 for 5, and Ortiz is 0 for 5 … Rzep made 23 starts for the Blue Jays. He was pounded by the Yankees in five starts (21 runs in 21 innings) but had a 3.59 ERA in his 18 other starts … in four starts against Boston and Tampa Bay, he allowed 5 runs in 24 innings … against RH batters he throws the fastball 72 percent of the time, and also uses the slider (14 percent) and changeup (14 percent) …. against LH batters Rzep goes with the fastball (55 percent) and slider (45 percent) … the slider is the pitch that wrecks hitters; according to STATS he’s thrown 169 of them this season and batters have whiffed on the slider on 43.4 percent of their swings … his fastball averages 92 mph, with movement … the slider averages 84 mph … this is a LH that can get RH batters out; they are hitting .243 / .338 / .371 against him … Rzep doesn’t throw the changeup much but when he does it’s an effective pitch, and I’d imagine that PC Dave Duncan will encourage him to use it more, especially if he becomes a starting pitcher in 2012.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
by Alxfritz on Jul 28, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
My sources tell me that hitters only whiff on his slider 21.8% of the time so far this year, and 16% for his career.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
I'm not mad at that report
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
read my pitch f/x posted somehwere yesterday
Short version: great slider and fastball with heavy sink, high 80’s. shaky control but has had fantastic GB and strikeout rates in the past.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
How different are our views on this trade if we get Escobar and scrabble instead of jackson and scrabble?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
much better, we'd get a cost controll SS!
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
FUCK YEAH!!!
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Well
Since Escobar’s contract looks like this:
12:$5M
13:$5M
14:$5M club option
15:$5M club option
I think we’d all be a lot happier.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
my god
I didn’t realize how cheap he was. And didn’t Toronto get him for basically nothing from Atlanta?
I'm trying to explain here
AA is a motherfucking WIZARD.
What happened to Vernon Wells? What about Alex Rios? Did Toronto get stuck with a large portion of either of those contracts? No.
Magic.
Magnets.
WIZARD.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
Then it's actually a good deal
Great deal.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That was precisely what I was hoping when Jackson was traded by the White Sox to the Not Cardinals
Then I realized that “Not Cardinals” meant “Blue Jays” and the Cards were in talks with the Blue Jays. Ah well.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I would've liked that
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 28, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
This all would depend
on Tony La Russa not ripping his work ethic when he shuffles out to the batting cage on his first day in uniform after hearing about all the problems Bobby Cox had with him in Atlanta, forcing John Mozeliak to trade him for Jeff Suppan’s jock strap and a PTBNL or an Imo’s Pizza.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
fuck you
i’m not there yet. i think i’m still in the denial stage. with movements in and out of the anger stage.
FIRE TLR
death before acceptance!
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
saw some of rosenthals post upthread
not sure if this one was…Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
#Cardinals now focusing on middle-infield help. Shortstop is a concern. Theriot .424 OPS last 105 PAs. #tradedeadline #MLB
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
Marco Scutaro i guess will do as well
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
....
Theriot .424 OPS last 105 PAs
FREE TYLER GREENE
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Theoretically, Theriot provided that little of production coupled with his awful defense
has costs us exactly how many runs.
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Reds...
Bailey just gave up 9 runs in 4 innings. Mets up 9-3 in the 5th.
strauss says it's ironic that someone named homer would give up 9 runs in 4 innings
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Trades
Any legitimate posts on whether we’ll make any more trades?
Only thing I can find today is the Rosenthal tweet
about middle infielders.
http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/statuses/96582577195974656
I think the amount of trades he's been involved in make him qualified.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
Perhaps.
The term itself comes with a negative connotation though. And having Jackson (ignoring how we got him) is not a negative thing.
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay I'm finally pissed
about this trade. I’m in two NL only fantasy leagues. Guess who had Colby in both?
FIRE TLR! FIRE MO! FREE TYLER GREENE!!
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
I approve
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
CodyG: Could you address the allegations that the President of your organization is a known anti-Bosnian?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
no comment
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Sounds like you have something to hide, sir
I’d suggest getting your organization in order before undertaking such important tasks
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Matters are being handled internally, thank you
questions will be handled on our blog.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Dunno
His BA is awfully low
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
by mysterui on Jul 28, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
i lol'd
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
how many RBIs does he have?
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
Can't wait to be fleeced by Brian Sabean
Hit me up on Google+
by jd is legend on Jul 28, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
what to do about this furcal matter?
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds very similar to
fecal matter. which is the point you were getting at, i suppose.
well played!
618. Represent.
so i'm thinking about doing a fanpost about how BABIP could or might correlate with a hitter's ability to hit to all parts of the field
what is the website that has all the spray chart data? and do i have to pay for it?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
mlb.com has spray chart data, brahdette
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
really?? where
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
Definitely somewhere
But this might be more useful to you
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
hit trajectory?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
Shit girl I dunno
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i dont think i'll be using jon jay for this study. assuming i actually get around to this
i think i will use players with career high BABIPs…like votto
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
Your sample size is going to be really small, then
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
what do you mean?
my plan was to go on fangraphs and take the top 10 career BABIPs and look at their spray charts, then do the same think for the bottom 10 career BABIPs, based on at least 2500 PA (even though it seems like maybe BABIP stabilizes at 1100 PA now?)
is that not right? i’m a newb at this.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
I mean, it'll definitely an interesting study. I think you should absolutely do that
But it’ll be hard to draw firm conclusions from 20 data points. A lot of noise and stuff like that will still be in there
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
agreed, whatever the results are, they won't give you a definite conclusion.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
depending on how long it takes me, i might do more. i am expecting this to take me like all weekend.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
interesting
the highest career BABIP (minimum 3000 PA) is tom mccreery, with .390. ty cobb is second with .378
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
holliday is 20th at .348
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
I'd definitely restrict it to players who were born, like, past 1930
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
They didn't even track Ks for most of McCreery's career
making the cutoff pointless for him.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1008431&position=OF
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
yeah, i'm actually going to restrict it to modern-era players
1980 going forward. but i just thought that was interesting.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
maybe i will restrict it to current players even
i dunno
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
You should restrict it to ...
… Chicken McNuggets only.
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Jul 28, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
thats the one i was thinking of
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
ussoccer: Bob Bradley has been relieved of his duties as the head coach of the #USMNT. More info: http://bit.ly/r9TUJH
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
/yawns
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
thought he had one more
world cup in him.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
Corey Patterson has a job and Bob Bradley doesn't. The world I imagined existed two days ago is upside down.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
SIGN JURGEN KLINSMANN
Hit me up on Google+
by jd is legend on Jul 28, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah he's done an awesome job with Toronto!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Eh. I think I'd prefer Hiddink or Bielsa if we could get them. Bielsa would tough because he just signed on at Atletico Bilbao
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Do you think Hiddink is a possibility?
That would require some serious money, and I’m sure Chelsea will be a possibility in 2013 once they fire AVB.
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Jul 28, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea. But if we had our pick of the litter, I'd probably choose those two
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Ancelotti's an interesting name
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Once again another great manager, but I think he's being payed something like 6 million pounds to not manage anywhere this year.
Plus I’m not sure he would want to go from managing a top 10 club* in the world to managing a middling national team.
*I felt dirty saying that
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Jul 28, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Jonathan Bornstain has a sad face.
Later, Bob. Don’t let the door…..
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
When asked about the reaction to the Rasmus trade, Mozeliak had this to say:
A Jay in the hand is worth two Rasmuses in the bush
sending rasmus to the jays
is worth a jay in the hand
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
So as a long time reader, but infrequent poster I wanted to give my thoughts on the trade and VEB’s response yesterday. Most of you won’t like it so feel free to move along….
I like the trade, mostly. I have no doubt Colby has potential, but he just wasn’t meshing with his team, coaches, and manager. This left only a few other options. 1) Fire the 2nd winningest manager of all time and trade away those players who did not mesh well with Colby. 2) Trade him. Should we have gotten more? Maybe. Colby was also not exactly lighting a fire here. Poor fielding at time and a super slump got him benched. Play top notch ball consistently and you will never ride the pine. Also, as talented as Colby could be in the future, he was never going to become the cornerstone for this team as long as Albert, Waino, Holliday, and Yadi are here. He was always touchable and tradable as it many other parts of the team. You have to play in such a way to make you untouchable in trade talks. After all what was Albert doing at age 23?
My only complaint is that we are still stuck with Theriot at SS. Couldn’t we have sent him too and they could have given us a trained monkey instead? Surely a trained monkey is better than what we got now.
As a result of this trade we are potentially in a good spot to make a solid run into October this year. This is a very good thing for the team. Championships bring in money, and money can bring good free agents (perhaps a good SS) and championships can help keep your free agents, i.e. Albert, from leaving. Albert wants to win. I would sacrifice my dog (now TLR hates me) to keep Albert here and retire here. If a "win now" philosophy helps keep Albert/Berk here, then so long Colby, don’t forget to grab your dad on the way out and don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
Are we screwed on 2012 and 2013? Nope. Many discussions on VEB remind us that we could have a sold and cost controlled rotation for the foreseeable future with Lynn, Miller, etc. A cost controlled rotation could keep the salary flexibility to sign another CF if Jay begins to listen to his father rather than his bosses as to how he should do his job or better yet find us a solid SS who isn’t afraid of the ball. This season has showed that our famer system is able to produce guys who can play at the major league level successfully enough to keep us battling for first place. We can love our stats we use around here all we want, but only one statistic matters when the post season starts, what place your team (not the individuals) finished. If Tony can win using nothing but his animals, then so be it and I‘ll take my allergy medications before heading to Busch.
As far as this blog I was disappointed in a lot of the comments yesterday. There was a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth to the point that I thought I was actually reading the PD Forums or a Cubby blog. I couldn’t count how many posters immediately gave up on the team/season or demanded the head of TLR. It is good to be passionate about your team, but check in with reality once in a while; the sky isn’t falling, we aren’t doomed to many years of darkness and we are not the Cubs. Could we regret this trade? Sure. Could we end of the winners of this trade if Colby never gets it together? Sure. But here is what should matter to a real fan of baseball, we are in a pennant race, we are moving towards October baseball, and we get to watch one of the greatest players ever play the game every day.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
A lot of your assumptions are based on the idea that we couldn't win with Colby on the team, and that we couldn't upgrade the team without including Colby
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Ryan Theriot starts for 2 NL Central champions and he's a winning player.
Colby Rasmus and Brendan Ryan started for an NL Central Champion but still didn’t play winning baseball.
Discuss.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
Never said Theriot is a winning player.
Theriot = what my dog poops out.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
There is nothing wrong with trading Rasmus
What is offensive is that we got so little for him and that the manager’s conniving pronouncements to the media drove his value down.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
and I would say his performance drove his value down. if all these other executives in the articles are saying we could have gotten more where was their offer if he was was valued so high? despite what Mo was saying we all knew Colby was on the market, if was so highly valued where were the other deals?
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
the deadline hadn't happened yet so there's no reason to do the deal yesterday
if Mo really wanted to do this, there’s no reason why he couldn’t have waited til the deadline and then pulled the trigger. I doubt that the Jays/Sox couldn’t have waited four days to do this deal.
at best, waiting lets other teams get involved which drives up the value of any potential deal.
this is why you don’t buy the first house/car you see when you’re in the market, patience breeds better outcomes. the reason this deal is so bad has to be tied to the lack of patience on Mo’s end IMO.
by molina mo problems on Jul 28, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
HUH?
Mo HAD to strike while the Iron was hot! Had to get while the gettin’ was good! You just don’t let a player like Octavio Dotel slip through through your fingers – or that Mark R. guy either! No sirree -
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously
this trade reminds me of how my roommate has traded four or five cars in the past year, always getting ripped off. it seemed like the same logic
“hey dude, i think i’m going to trade my restored vintage Camaro that my dad sold me for super cheap for this broken down Honda and a pile of car parts.”
i view the Colby trade as a poor decision overall that was made even worse by timing. i mean really, Corey Patterson?
by molina mo problems on Jul 28, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Corey Patterson
really had nothing to do with the trade. The trade was for the pitchers, he was probably just an add on that they didn’t even need anymore because they added Colby.
I’m not sure why everyone seems to think we traded Colby for Corey straight up.
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Jul 28, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Trading in the off-season was another possibility.
Buy lo, sell hi. I know you were talking about a an immediate trade, but Mo couldn’ve timed things much better notwithstanding TLR’s mouth.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
oh definitely. no reason to trade now.
there’s even a chance that colby would have boosted his value by bringing his numbers up. but no, TLR had to ruin that by going public.
It seems like some believe the best way to improve the team was to ship Colby to Canada in a scenario that still involves Theriot getting starts.
by molina mo problems on Jul 28, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
poop? is poop what your dog poops out?
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you got it! your prize will be delivered to you shortly, just trying to get Franklin off my couch and working in someway again…
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't stop laughing at this...
I just looooove poop jokes…
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms...the game of ball is glorious." Whitman
Pretty sure I never said the team couldn’t win with Colby or couldn’t upgrade without trading Colby. But I think Colby rut, fielding, and lack of playing to his potential moved him from being untrabable to tradable. He had yet to play himself into a the position of becoming a cornerstone player. I also think in 50 years we will still be taking about Albert like we do Stan the Man and won’t give Colby even a thought.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
"As a result of this trade we are potentially in a good spot to make a solid run into October this year."
Implies that we were not in such a position before, does it not?
Why does he have to become a cornerstone player? He’s a 3+ WAR centerfielder, who is going to entering his first year of arbitration next year.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I could be wrong here
but in a short series Ejax is a significant upgrade from westbrook,loshe,et al. So I would gather a solid run would be into the NLCS?
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
Jackson is projected for a 3.91 FIP going forward
Kyle Lohse is projected for a 3.85 FIP going forward
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
That FIP isn't league adjusted yet.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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This is correct
But that’s not a gigantic upgrade in a 3-pitcher rotation
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
also how likely is it that Jackson has a sub 3 BB/9 for 200 IP then when moved to the NL
it jumps back to career norms of 3.8ish/9
I’m just wondering if he has improved command.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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yep, know for dingers.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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*known
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Alright so Ejax
has that going for him down here in the STL.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
That and the league change, he has been pitching very well lately
IMO I do not think he is going to regress to his career averages I think he will continue to pitch really well.
FREE TYLER GREENE!
I'm thinking the second best pitching coach in baseball has helped him enough to reach
his potential.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Yep and moving to the best can't hurt.
Also moving to a pitchers park in the NL. We just gotta give him a heads up to not let anyone hit it to SS.
FREE TYLER GREENE!
He was in Texas?
I thought he played for the White Sox.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 28, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
don cooper > mike maddux
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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If we've got a one game series, and the winner is determined by the pitcher throwing a really, really bad no-hitter
I’ll take Edwin Jackson any day of the week.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
Here’s my problem with projections…they projections. Players will either meet them, exceed them, or fail to meet them. Projections aren’t facts.
I am reminded of what my dad use to tell me about my old comic book collection when I told him what it’s projected value was. “Projections are great, but they aren’t worth a penny until someone hands you money.” This coming a guy who sold people based on projections.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Projections are our best estimates of a player's true talent level, based on empirical and scientific facts
They are not the same thing as what your comic books are going to be worth in 10 years
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I agree, IMO though I don't think his current projection is taking into consideration his recent performance
enough.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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I'm not sure what you're talking about
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
He doesn't think it factors in his 3.21 FIP enough.
Probably cause he doesn’t think Jackson is a 3.91 FIP pitcher anymore.
At least, I kind of share this opinion
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 28, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Doh, I could've swore his projections called for a 3.8ish BB/9 not 3.28
still I think it needs to weigh his last 200 IP a bit better than it has.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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Actually the projections were similar in being based on certain facts. Value protections in comic books were based on number of issues printed, artists, writers, character appearances, major change in events, etc.
Hence the Death of Superman was never projected to be worth a lot anytime soon due to such a large printing 15 years ago. But hey this about our nerd like obsession with baseball and not comics.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
your dad sold people?
didnt that go out, in the legal world, back in the 1860’s?
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 28, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
now we know my deep dark secret…..oh the shame I felt growing up…
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not. so not sure if i should be offended or not.
Theriot = what my dog poops out...
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Be offended ...
be very offended.
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Jul 28, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Our pitching is in much better shape. How long has everyone wanted K-Mac back to the pen and find a starter? How long did we want to see Miller go bye-bye? Pitching wins in October.
We having lost anything with Colby gone for now. Jay was out playing the guy. Next year? Who knows Jay could regress or prove that everyone’s assessment of him was wrong and this is the player he is. Cobly might finally tap into who everyone thinks he could be or maybe everyone was wrong about him and this is the best he will ever be.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You are presuming facts that are not in evidence
Who exactly are these players who did not mesh with Rasmus?
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
Perhaps I am reading it wrong but per Joey Strass many players did not enjoy daddy dearest around, so perhaps mesh is the wrong word.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Joey Strauss makes things up
I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it. ~Rogers Hornsby
And I presume whatever I wish, afterall it is an opinion about a trade and what I have read over the last few years here and elsewhere. Not saying Colby is bad guy, just square peg in round whole. I hope he can live up to his potential somewhere.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
response
Fire the 2nd winningest manager of all time and trade away those players who did not mesh well with Colby.
In my humble opinion, Tony La Russa is only second on the all-time wins list due to longevity, a dash of luck, and the fact that he’s not an absolutely terrible field general. Bad managers have the ability to severely reduce their teams’ performance, but good managers don’t boost wins all that much. I’m willing to say, based on his history, that he is not an atrocious manager. However, using his wins as a metric to determine whether or not we should trust him implicitly on personnel decisions such as this strikes me as a bit silly.
Tony has repeatedly demonstrated that he takes a childish approach to interpersonal relationships. If you’re one of his guys, you’re safe. If you somehow, God forbid, land in the doghouse, have fun in the cold and the rain because you won’t be coming back inside anytime soon.
That’s what caused this trade. Tony and Colby did not get along. I’m willing to give more benefit of the doubt to the down-home southern boy rather than the angry old man who has mangled numerous relationships with players (and does so, it appears, intentionally).
Trade him. Should we have gotten more? Maybe.
I would argue we would necessarily have gotten more if Tony could keep his mouth shut. This was the number three prospect in baseball not long ago, and while his performance in the majors so far has not been Pujolsian (which is a silly metric to use when evaluating performance), he was doing fairly well.
Colby was also not exactly lighting a fire here. Poor fielding at time and a super slump got him benched. Play top notch ball consistently and you will never ride the pine.
I will never understand rightly some people’s fetish for consistency. Albert has miserable streaks, especially this season. As a manager, you decide to let some people fight through them because you have the faith they are a good baseball player and they will reward your trust. Tony never trusted Colby, despite the fact that—in my opinion—Colby demonstrated he deserved that trust.
Also, as talented as Colby could be in the future, he was never going to become the cornerstone for this team as long as Albert, Waino, Holliday, and Yadi are here.
Yeah, I get your point, because there comes a point when you just have too many good players and you have to get rid of them.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
by il rosso on Jul 28, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i wonder how many wins tlr would have if he were managing the marlins and not us all these years
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
My guess is not many.
I’m not a rabid, foam-at-the-mouth, anti-Tony person but I don’t think he’s a good manager and I don’t like him much.
He got lucky with the players he had.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
i wouldn’t say that I like him, but I respect his career and think he is a good manager, but he would be better is his ego stayed in check sometimes.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
<In my humble opinion, Tony La Russa is only second on the all-time wins list due to longevity, a dash of luck, and the fact that he’s not an absolutely terrible field general.>
And I would say a manager has longevity because he wins hence you can become 2nd on the list. As guy in KC I have lost track of how many managers have come and gone. If one put together a few winning teams he might stick around longer.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
quote fail….doh!
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is
Managers don’t put together winning teams, GMs do.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
Meet me at Okie Joe's and we'll fight over who's right
And then eat delicious barbeque
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
excellend solution!!
well since you like Okie Joe’s I guess I will never say anything against you….i now hate the trade….Viva el Okie Joe’s!
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I had OK Joes for the first time last week.
It made the 4 hour drive to KC totally worth it. We did other stuff too, but that was definitely a high light of the trip.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
VEB day at Okie Joes!!!
Who is game????
Theriot = what my dog poops out...
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Date and time
Then we’ll hit Gates and have a discussion about which is better.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Aug 1, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
right the owners here suck, I do love the ballpark though…
so is GMs and owners are responsible for assembling the team sholdn’t we be calling for DeWitt’s head instead of TLR? this trade would not have gone through without his okay.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone's mad at Mo for pulling the trigger
We’re just especially mad at LaRussa for making him think it was necessary, since LaRussa shouldn’t have any fucking say at all, and really needs to stop alienated players in the first place.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
No
the perception is that TLR forced this trade to happen, which isn’t the first time he’s ran a good player out of town. Mo was working on an extension with Colby before TLR trashed him to the media. The angst you’re seeing here is in reaction to that.
Owners are not responsible for assembling the team; they’re responsible for signing the check. Unfortunately for Kansas City, they have owners who don’t like to spend money.
GM’s assemble the team, and Mo absolutely deserves criticism for this move. Criticism that he has received by every smart baseball writer in the country.
I wonder about the extension, though
Could it have been a sign and trade? It might have upped Colby’s value.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Problem??
The biggest problem Colby had was that both he and his dad thought they should be the cornerstone of this team. Maybe he can be in Toronto.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 28, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
IMHO, managers have so very little to do with the success of a ball club
on a day-to-day basis. No matter what, the players have to execute.
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Jul 28, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The only real impact managers have is the lineup.
Players do have to produce and of course they have the majority of control once they’re on the field. It’s hard to produce from the bench though.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Aug 1, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
well i’ve said my piece and feel like we are just beating a dead colby here, I mean horse..
liked the discussion. perhaps i will comment more in the future.
Theriot = what my dog poops out...
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You should
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i might. sometimes this place a bit of downer/too sarcastic/cynicle for my tastes, i’m happy optimistic basball loving guy. so keep my distance at times.
Theriot = what my dog poops out...
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah we're not so bad
Except VEP. He’s the worst.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Who Xu talking about?
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
well now you make it sound like a cult...
so does this mean that after Okie Joe’s we will end up on the Plaza dancing in our robes looking for money like the Hara chrisnas?
Theriot = what my dog poops out...
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude that's my profession
Jerk
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
pants on fire?
Liar, as a former religious studies major I happen to know they don’t use computers as the material world is bad.
Just remember lies make the baby Jesus cry.
Theriot = what my dog poops out...
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 5:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
if you do
please use the subject line. My eyes are burning
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
excellent, now i have power over you….
Theriot = what my dog poops out...
by arthropodtodd on Jul 28, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I happen to agree with most of what you said.
Colby may be great, or he still may have great potential in five years. In spite of what people think, they cannot calculate his future.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 28, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
or, you know, option 3: john mozeliak (or bill dewitt) could tell two grown ass men to get the fuck along together.
they don’t have to split a veggie burger for lunch everyday and share a condo.
they just have to coexist, which pretty much requires that tony writes him in the lineup 130-140 times a year and not say obnoxious shit about him to the media, and that colby acknowledges what tony and the other coaching staff say and makes some effort to deal with the advice.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jul 29, 2011 4:10 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Tony Rasmus interview
audio (from today)
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
2 interesting things there
1. The Rolen anecdote. Kinda sad
2 . The idea that he’s only talked to his son 4 times this year. I go back and forth on that one. Granted, when I called home 20 years ago I usually talked to my mom, not my dad. Seems hard to believe, though since we know they’ve gotten together twice to do batting practice. If he’s not honest about 1 thing…….
He probably has a point about people expecting Rasmus to be Edmonds.
well, goold says he's lying about 2.
but then rasmus sr says the stl media makes up 95% of what they write
i think they’re all lying – mo, tlr, both rasmuses, all of the stl media
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
I don't think Tony Rasmus is Peter Graf (Steffi's dad) bad, but I just don't like
meddling dad’s who hurt their children’s careers. Maybe he is smarter then me because Colby is now in a better situation.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
I trust Goold more than Tony Rasmus
who has every reason to lie and blame everyone else in this situation. Hell, I probably would too since it’s my kid. However, I don’t know any reason that Goold would have to lie about it. What’s the motive?
I really fucking doubt that a guy who has meddled and talked about his son’s play so publicly, who has a 10 minute interview with a local radio station ON THE DAY HIS SON IS TRADED is not full of shit.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
If it had been Strauss I'd believe Rasmus
but since it’s Goold I side with Goold.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Aug 1, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Did Tony R. say how many times
he had called TLR to ask why his son wasn’t playing?
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 28, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Tony Rasmus is letting TLR have it right between the eyes.
Not much doubt there. I tend to believe what he is saying now. In the past though he has gone out of his way to say that it is Colby’s fault and not TLR.Why would he have done that? Was he trying to curry favor with the Cardinals, keep Colby out of hot water?
I guess we will see how Colby does in Toronto. I hope the environment is as good as as the show host and Daddy Rasmus say it is.
Tony is not the easiest manager to play for. In a survey wasn’t he one of the “most liked” and “least liked” for players?? The only manager on both lists.
Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Mark Twain
Yesterday i was sulking over the trade and didn't think it could get any worst
Then I turned on the tv to see ESPN showing the worst blown calls of all time. Then #1 came and it was the 1985 World Series.
Well, it was a really, really bad call
Aren’t you glad that even ESPN regards it as the worst call of all time?
by hr on Jul 28, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
when they had a round table discussion
on which of my dead childhood pets were the most “now”, it went too far.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This might be the funniest comment I have read here in days
Rec.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Oh my god I can't believe people are defending the trade
For shame VEB, for shame.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
entering the "bargaining" stage of grief
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
who has done that?
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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oh right, I'm just ignoring them,
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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DEfending
is too large a word. More like people are making the most out of it. (which isn’t much…)
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
I think it's fair to say some people are defending it
Most defenses include something like “Colby needed to be traded,” which is bad right off the bat.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
I mean, they're basically repeating the GM who traded him on that point.
Not an unreasonble position to espouse.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He did need to be traded
he had a .260 BA.
I keed
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
Even if we all agreed conceptually
With the idea he needed to be traded, so what? Still have to get into the messy details of the return we took, and the chain of events that led us to take that return.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 28, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
how would you folks feel about the trade
if Jon Jay was to be the Blue Jay instead of Rasmus?
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 28, 2011 3:29 PM EDT reply actions
It would likely be a coup
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
this
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
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I'm pretty sure the answer to that is obvious
There is a reason Jay’s value is nowhere near Colby’s long-term.
it would be my happiest moment
since jeff feagles kicked for the eagles
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
this
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
damn you codyg, a reply fail
10000 straight comments without a reply fail.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
It would be a better trade
Not a coup because Jay is pretty good and has long term value, but Rasmus is way better.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Colby v. Jay
Fangraphs has Jay making .0055 WAR per plate appearance. It has Colby making .0058 WAR per plate appearance. That means at their current production over 1000 plate appearances, Colby is likely to be 0.3 WAR better than Jon Jay. This trade fuss is all about perceived potential.
Er
Jay has a career .352 BABIP, whereas Rasmus has a career .307 BABIP. Odds are Jay is getting pretty lucky compared to Rasmus.
Also, the potential is part of how well he performs in the future. He’s likely a much better player than Jay because of that as well.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
or because Jay hits liners and grounders,
while Colby either pops up or flies out. I’d venture to say that LDs and GBs will naturally produce a higher BABIP and PUs and FBs.
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Jul 28, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, Jay doesn't hit pop ups or flies? That's interesting.
The fact that Jay hits a slightly higher percentage of line drives and fewer fly balls would explain maybe .015 points of the difference. It doesn’t explain why Jay has a BABIP as high as Ichiro’s.
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
one interesting thing about Jay
he rarely fouls out. Almost Votto-ish in that category- fouls balls cost him only .05 BABIP points this year, vs .018 points for Colby.
The question of “will that regress” might be worth looking into. guessing the answer is “yes”, but… he hits line drive and GB’s, so maybe no.
"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11
eh, .18 for colby
"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11
that's 15 foul ball outs for Rasmus, vs 2 for Votto, 6 for jay
"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11
(votto, .03)
"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11
truly seems to me like Colby's had a ton of linedrives snared for outs
and hard ground balls right at people.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 29, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
colby's batted .750 on line drives this year
well above league average.
"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11
we already had our sell high deal
because of what our GM sold, he had to be high.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 28, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
"Hey...A to the A, my man, what's crackin'."
“Oh hey Mo, what’s up…dude, you reek…hey, are high, man?”
“Heh, no way, brah.”
“Alright. Whatever. Hey, I’ve got some players you might like, want em?”
“Oh shit man, those players are pitchers! I want some pitchers like CRAZY right now.”
“Sweet, let’s talk price.”
(Mo hands AA a Rasmus and some other junk from his pocket.)
“That oughta cover it, keep the change, dude.”
“You sure?”
“Yeah man, no worries, it’s good. We coo.”
(Mo saunters away slowly. AA’s mouth spreads into a devilish Grinch grin.)
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
i would have cautiously endorsed it
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
yes
in fact you might infer that Patterson would play more because he’d be spelling the hated Rasmus instead of Jovial Justice Jonny Jay
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 28, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
also it would be Jay to the Jays and that would just be COOL.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
My position on the trade
It’s not as bad as the people that hate it the most think it is, and it’s not as good as the people who think it was good the most think it is.
There’s some decisiveness for you.
Don't know if anyone else heard this
but Bernie used the “Scrabble” moniker during his interview with McClellan, and he seemed to like it.
they already introduced it in the fsnmw broadcast last night
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
God that moustache is terrible
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
If its possible...
its de-masculating even!
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms...the game of ball is glorious." Whitman
ah it feels great to have baseball-related comments again in the ol threads doesn't it?
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
subject line'd
too soon.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
who thinks this guy is attractive and why?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
How could you trade that face???
…
OK, let’s not worry what the guys looks like…
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
anyone else remember when MO said any trade would be made with an eye to the future as well?
am I imagining that ?
What did you expect him to say?
“Look, I’m just trying to ruin the team?”
Or he could have told the truth
like, “Look, I’m just trying to do what Tony tells me to do.”
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
its just odd the guy said that any trades would be with an eye to the future
then the justification for this trade is WIN NOW
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
remember when he said "we're not shopping colby"
“colby’s not going anywhere”
etc
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 76
Having neither the desire or time to sift, how is VEB feeling today?
Is the boo boo any better? Still raw?
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
we're pouring salt in the wound.
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
sounds about right!
I’m going to the game tonight. I hope I don’t see Mr. Patterson.
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
With Berkman out, you'll definitely see Patterson`
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
At least another day or two, according to LaRussa
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
just had an injection yesterday
so I would guess Saturday as his most likely return. I guess it’s possible he could be back tomorrow.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 28, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Berman's still out?
I thought he was coming BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK BACK
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
by mattybobo on Jul 28, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
join the flagellation nation
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
he kicked you with just his teeth, right?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Remember when Mo was "asking for a ton" for Rasmus? Good times.
An AL official told Joel Sherman of the New York Post that the Cardinals “are definitely shopping” center fielder Colby Rasmus, despite public denials. The official says the Cards “are asking for a ton.”
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 3:50 PM EDT reply actions
I referenced that quote like 10 times when saying I didn't think we were going to do anything stupid
FREE TYLER GREENE!
“are asking for a ton…of mediocre and subpar players. Generally they just want a bunch of guys”
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I had AJ Feeley come into my work today
And all I could think while talking to him was that I hope I don’t have to watch him play this year
breaking news
Sam Bradford traded to the Toronto Argonauts
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
proven closer
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
by mojowo11 on Jul 28, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Guy who plays just enough for us to get draft pick compensation?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I hope ROOGY
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
No
But I can speculate:
He’ll be used much like TLR used Russ Springer. He has difficulty getting lefties out with regularity, but he dominates right handed hitters. So my guess is that he’ll be a right handed specialist and probably be the set up guy from time to time along with Motte
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
A couple of weeks ago, I posted that cards fans should be careful what they
wished for, because they might just get Kent Bottlenfield in return. Jim Ed was run out of OC for similar crappy reasons (i.e. that he was selfish or a showboat). What crappy reasons for not getting back value.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
My hope is that TLR leaves and MO is fired
before Colby becomes a free agent, and then we somehow convince him it will be better this time.
by RasmustheRipper on Jul 28, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Votto homers off Izzy in the bottom of the ninth..
no outs, Mets still lead 10-9.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Thanks for the update
I had forgot that game was on. I’ve been torturing myself with Izzy on my fantasy team.
*vomits
THE BATMAN | TOWEL BOY.| VP of TG Fan Club | Adron Chambers' agent
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE
If it happens, then it's time to buy a bottle of extra strength Tums again.
Correction – I still have the bottle that I used for Franklin.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Sung to the tune of 'O Danny Boy'
O Colby boy, the bats the bats are calling
From glen to glen, and cross the border line
The summer’s gone, and all the balls are falling
‘Tis you, ’tis you must go and I must pine.
But come ye back when Jays shall play the Redbirds
Or when the ’Birds shall come to play the Jays
’Tis I’ll be here awash, among the red herd
Oh Colby boy, oh Collby boy, I love you so.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
by azruavatar on Jul 28, 2011 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 11 recs
I have no words
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I shouldn't type it, I know
but there can be no doubt that Colby will go 13 for 15 with 4 homeruns next time we have a border birds series
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 28, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
PATTERSON
Punto, 2b; Jay, cf; Pujols, 1b; Holliday, lf; Freese, 3b; Laird, c; Theriot, ss; Patterson, rf; Garcia, lhp.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
You knew it was going to happen.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
I'll go with no.
Patterson is a truly awful hitter.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
at least skip gets on base
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
why is theriot not leading off?
his OBP vs LH is his only redeeming quality right now?
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
TOWEL
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
by OKCardsfan on Jul 28, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
to clean up to vomit
FREE TYLER GREENE!
by hittmeier on Jul 28, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
this is a legit use.
just don’t use it on separated body parts.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i LOL'd
rec for you
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
At least Theriot isn't leading off
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Translation:
At least only 3 of my 4 limbs have gangrene
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
starving kids in africa would be happy to have theriot, patterson, and laird!
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Only Laird, Theriot and Patterson are too skinny
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Laird's not that skinny
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I think you are confusing Laird with MacDougal.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
no
hes saying only Laird (is fat), and that Theriot and Patterson are too skinny
I think
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
This is some sort of special hell, right?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
now Freese fuses all his fingers and toes together in a lightning accident
and we go scoop of Pedro Feliz
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 28, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the special hell
reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theater.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I will watch at least for a while
6:00 central time, right?
Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Mark Twain
I will be
I even joined Bluebird Banter today. I hope Clobby kills it tonight, and for the season.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 28, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i joined also.
still waiting to be able to post.
Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Mark Twain
1-5 are fine
I’ll just close my eyes for 6-8.
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
I know Punto's been cromulent this year
but I still dislike seeing him at the top of the lineup. And, as you say, after Freese’s turn all hope is lost
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 28, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
hey VEB!!!!
just saw the lineup on twitter so i thought Id say….Happy Corey Patterson to all of you!!!!
FREE TYLER GREENE!! update - .319/.415/.526
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Jul 28, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
bright spots:
pujols and holliday and garcia.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
i may be blind
but at least my handicap is caused by cataracts of joy.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
When they said CP was a throw-in....
….that didn’t mean throw him in the lineup.
These 2010 flashbacks are not f'n cool.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 28, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I fully expect
Some Pedro Feliz like 2 for 5’s from Patterson initially, just so this will drag on much longer than it should.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 28, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh please Lance Berkman
Be okay… Be okay…
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 28, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought this was a joke - that you were making this up
Patterson is really starting. I don’t know what I thought. He would be on the team but never have to play. Good Grief.
Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Mark Twain
Mo is a little busy today....
Phone calls from:
1. Every GM in baseball.
2. Every car dealer in North America.
When you suck at deals, you draw attention.
Swooping in to see if they can get Miller and Martinez...
…each for a utility infielder and a subscription to jelly of the month clubs.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 28, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
those GM calls are probably an odd combination of concern for his mental wellbeing and trade propsals of gritty MIFs for Jaime
by molina mo problems on Jul 28, 2011 4:43 PM EDT reply actions
i hear mysterui's mom
is a gritty…oh, MIF…never mind.
"I don't know where Cueto learned to fight."-- Chris Carpenter
do not mess with yadi f. molina
So apparently Felipe Lopez got traded to the Brewers for cash...
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110728&content_id=22424900&vkey=tradedeadline2011&c_id=mlb
“As of Thursday morning, the Brewers had four days to work phones ahead of Sunday’s 3 p.m. CT non-waiver Trade Deadline, and they struck quickly to make one deal. Milwaukee sent cash to the Rays for Triple-A infielder Felipe Lopez, who batted .320 with Milwaukee during the second half of 2009. He will report to Triple-A Nashville on Friday, “and then we’ll evaluate,” general manager Doug Melvin said."
And I thought Mo's deal was bad.
They actually had to pay money for Lopez? Were they out of scuffed baseballs?
The Brewers, having some sense, are sending Flip to the minors as a just-in-case plan
TRADE FOR RICH HARDEN
Most recent start: 5.1 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 6 K @ NYY
2011 stats: 4.63 ERA, 4.82 FIP, 3.54 xFIP
Valdes sent down
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
One of the lost relievers was on the DL
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
He was told they're Ojibwa Indians.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Aug 1, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
My own fault for reading the Joe Strauss chat, but: wat
HesterPrynne: A lot of similarities between Corey Patterson and Rasmus. Patterson was a very high pick by the Cubs and never quite reached that level. Rasmus might be our “patterson”. Despite the negative reviews, Patterson is the near image of Rasmus in terms of production with better defense. I like the trade. What if, what if: what if Rasmus never reaches the expectations?
Joe Strauss: I disagree with your comparison, though some Sabe types cling to it. Rasmus has the potential to be a high on-base percentage hitter. Patterson carries a career .298 OBP. They were both first-round picks. Great.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Is that free verse?
What was unicorn trying to say?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 28, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Well that wasn't the whole response
But what “sabe type” would compare Patterson to Rasmus?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Does he think that 'sabes' are thinking this is a great deal because
we got Corey Patterson?
I don’t like the idea of taking food out of a guys mouth but I think it should become this blogging communities mission to get this tool fired. Fire Joe Strauss. Unrelenting, daily attention shown to the idiocy that is his work.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 28, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Goold mentioned that they had similar profiles early in the year
and Strauss is parroting it as a shot at goold.
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
joe strauss: "someone named 'hesterprynne' is asking about rasmus? isn't that...ironic?"
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Wat
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 28, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
oh I hate him so much
I just cant contain my anger for some reason!
by jealousblues on Jul 28, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
COLBYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
this makes me sad.
I’m glad for Colby though.
Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Mark Twain
Where is this picture posted from?
I think I’ve got something in my adblock that’s disallowing it.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Lineup...
escobar 6
rasmus 8
bautista 5
lind 3
encarnacion dh
thames 9
hill 4
snider 7
arencibia 2
villanueva 1
DFA Patterson!!!
don't worry, VEB
we took colby to a farm up north where he can bat second and play with people who like him.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jul 28, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
so wait, colby actually died and my parents don't want to tell me!?
THIS TRADE KEEPS GETTING WORSE
by molina mo problems on Jul 28, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Kind of amazing tangential fact:
According to that Ken Rosenthal piece, our Heath Bell pursuit is pretty much over because Rasmus was a central part of those discussions.
Read that again. Yes, this is apparently true. Even after the Rasmus trade we did make, in what fucking universe should Colby Rasmus be involved in trade discussions for Heath Bell?
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
yeah, this one of the only few things about the Rasmus trade I can be happy about. it wasn't for Heath F. Bell.
DFA Corey Patterson
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
Holy shit.
Former New York Yankees pitcher Hideki Irabu was found dead of an apparent suicide in the wealthy Los Angeles suburb of Rancho Palos Verdes, authorities confirmed Thursday.
Colby in TOR: .000/.000/.000 0HR 7/27
by The Continental on Jul 28, 2011 5:18 PM EDT reply actions
Oh god....
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 28, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
This might sound trollish or mean or something but I don't mean it that way
Anyway, Japan and South Korea have ridiculously high suicide rates. S. Korea is something like #2 in the world, Japan something like #5. They’re basically neighbors in the rankings with a bunch of former Soviet Union nations with way lower standards of living, prospects, etc. It’s kind of frightening, and obviously there is a cultural element to it.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Yes, the cultural element is sad. Death>Shame.
I wonder how much of the old Shogun code still persists in the cultural norms.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
If Jay wOBAs .340+ for the next 4 years with above average D in center
and scrabble is a solid #3 for 4-5
and we turn Jackson Comp picks into legit prospects
and one of the PTBNL becomes a ML contributor
This deal will not make me cry for years….it will still hurt, but i won’t be emotionally scarred.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
a man can dream
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
If frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass when they hopped.
Way too many ifs for that to work out.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Aug 1, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
4 pick parlay hitting?
Vegas would like to speak with you.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
But I really doubt they put Scrabble in the rotation
Free Tyler Greene - Secretary of WAR and defense.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 28, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
damnit i can't believe someone just tried to tell me that ryan howard is better than chris young.
i hate people.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
okay so howard's wOBA is slightly higher, which i just discovered
but this person used the RBI-argument
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
Overflow Thread (with Poll) Here:
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2011/7/28/2301370/happy-hour-thread-colby-rasmus-trade-a-thon-continued
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Here is a great app for google chrome...
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ahkhhfdoiijgjejlepmlolomilmndoaa?hl=en-US
you can player search several sites at once…
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
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