Jason Rasmus
by azruavatar on Jul 24, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
in St. Louis Cardinals News
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PrintPrior to this season, he was worth over 5 WAR in the major leagues. Heralded as one of the best prospects ever produced by the farm system, he was seen as a fixture in the outfield for seasons to come. The raw athletic ability displayed made him a favorite of scouts and the advanced approach at the plate combined including solid secondary skills made him a favorite of statheads. That is until this season.
His production dropped off. Fielding metrics are less impressed by his defense. While he's been saved in part by the overall offensive decline in the league that still leaves him a slightly above average offensive player, the expectations surrounding the player far surpass the production in 2011. All this despite the impression that bad luck seems to have played a role, possibly significant, in his decline and current slump.
So when are the Braves going to trade Jason Heyward?
Ironic how parallel the situation of Jason Heyward and Colby Rasmus can be when looking purely at the numbers. Heyward, who was worth 5 fWAR for the Braves in 2010, has seen his production drop dramatically in part because of a BABIP that is in the dumps. I've intentionally ignored some of the differences between the two players (Heyward is younger and in his second season, he's rumored to be battling injuries and Heyward was a better overall prospect) but there's a stark contrast in how the media handles the two situations.
Check the Braves blog. See any posts about trading Jason Heyward? How about any comments in the 700 post trade thread? I'll fill you in -- there's zero. How about the local paper? No that seems strangely devoid of trade Jason Heyward articles as well. The Colby Rasmus story, as much as any non-Anthony Reyes story in modern memory, is a function of the media and the fascination with a perceived relationship strain that few have actual insight about. The fans are hungry for information and the media provides it. The story feeds on itself and becomes a caricature of reality but a caricature that can also shape reality.
The teams are dealing with different personalities. Jason Heyward may well be more affable than Colby Rasmus. I'd bet money that Fredi Gonzalez is no Tony LaRussa in the clubhouse. The Braves had a long history under Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz of developing young talent and nurturing it through the big league transition. The Cardinals, frankly, do not. Whether Frank Wren (a Schuerholz disciple) and Fredi Gonzalez will continue that tradition will only be known with time but, not throwing their young star under the media bus is a good start.
As others have mentioned before, part of the undoing of Colby Rasmus in 2011 is expectations. An above average offensive centerfielder with even below average defense is a valuable asset when the player remains under team control. The club, fans and media simply expected more and they aren't wrong to have those expectations. Everyone would be foolish to let those expectations stand in the way of understanding the real value of these players be it Rasmus or Jason Heyward.
The fate of Colby seems a forgone conclusion despite repeated denials by the front office. Then again, it has seemed a foregone conclusion for at least two years now and we find ourselves in the same spot again. The club has a lot of major decisions coming up in the offseason including Lance Berkman, Chris Carpenter and, the 800-lb gorilla in the room, Albert Pujols. A definitive conclusion to the Colby Rasmus saga might be beneficial for everyone involved.
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Outside of all the Sabermetrics
His Defensive numbers (Fld %, Ast, PO) are better than last year and on pace to be better than ‘09, but of course his D WAR is 2.9 lower than ’09. I believe once out from under Tony, he’ll start standing out more. Hopefully we don’t find that out via trade.
"You may run like Mays, but you hit like sh**."
by Lankford 4 President on Jul 24, 2011 7:24 AM EDT reply actions
Those numbers aren't WAR, they're runs. 10 runs is about a win
And he’s been worth fewer runs because I assume his range has been worse
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
You’re suggesting that the Braves have produced good young players because of Cox and Shuerholz, while the Cardinals have not because of Tony La Russa. While it is true that the Braves have had a better history of player development than the Cardinals, where is the evidence that this is Tony La Russa’s fault?
Here’s a thought experiment for you: Who among players drafted or signed as professionals by the Cardinals has failed to get deserved playing time and development opportunity under La Russa and then gone on to a successful major league career with another organization(s).
Feel free to stretch back to 1996 through the current roster.
Also, there’s a certain irony here that Rasmus has been benched for Jon Jay, not Reggie Sanders.
by VideoSavant55 on Jul 24, 2011 8:37 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
that's right
the loss of haren and now perez were front office decisions and it is true that no one of consequence has left the Cards because of trouble with Larussa and done well with the possbile exception of Rolen. In the case of Rolen, he appears to have been the one who created the problems both in Philly, St, louis, and possibly in Toronto as well.
Just win
maybe Perez?
I dunno, he’s not as big a deal as Rolen, but it seems they did not like him. also, Boog was ran outta town, that’s for sure.
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Rolen
While clearly there were issues with LaRussa – he was neither young nor developed by the cardinals… so he doesn’t really have anything to do with the “LaRussa doesn’t like and can’t develope young players” mantra. Also no one knows that the falling out with Rolen was Tony’s fault or Rolen’s fault. But, considering Rolen had similar problems in Philly, it’s entirely possible that was more on Rolen tha LaRussa.
I would say Anthony Reyes would have had success with the indians had he not beet hurt
And then there is the obvious one (and the best parallel to Colby)….Brendan Ryan
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/22/11)
90 1/3 IP, 102 K, 39 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 2.96 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 24, 2011 8:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
this compelled me to look up Ryan's stats for this year
2.0 fWAR. Not exactly lighting the world on fire, but (almost) the equivalent of Schumaker, Theriot, Punto, and Descalso combined. But hey, let’s trade Colby so CF can end up like our MIF – a perennial revolving door of mediocrity, while the former resident goes on to play a solid and steady, if unspectacular, CF for someone else for the foreseeable future.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
this was not a response to VolsnCards, by the way
just random musing
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
Except that Colby is being replaced by another young player under team control...
Expected to provide solid and steady if unspectacular CF for the Cards. Why are two facts continually underplayed in this Colby story – (1) Colby is currently being outplayed. And it is not for lack of opportunity, as Colby (I think) has the most PAs on the team. And (2) Colby’s replacement is not some fill-in, past-his-prime veteran, but instead another homegrown, young, cost-controlled player.
There is no TLR narrative here, other than, as of this moment, him trying to put the best team on the field. If Jay slumps or if Colby does well in the opportunities he is given, I expect the situation to change again.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
except that, given the long view,
I don’t think Jay will provide that impact over the next three years, at least not at the same level Colby will.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
Sure. But what is notable about that?
How common is it for one player that is playing better in the short term, in the middle of a pennant race, to start over another player who might be better in the long term? That situation probably exists in multiple forms on almost every team in the majors, including at other positions on this Cards team. If that’s the story, there’s really no story there.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Rasmus is more likely to be better in the long term and short term...
he’s more likely to be better every time he takes the field or steps into the batter’s box.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
But as is sometimes said here
That’s just your opinion, man.
Zips rest-of-season projections gives the slight edge to Jay (but maybe Zips hates Colby too because he’s lazy and Southern!)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think this is probably the most reasonable way of looking at it
Which makes the other narratives flying around kind of frustrating for me. I fully expect Rasmus to start more soon. Jay’s been getting results and I know how much people hate the whole “hot hand” approach because obviously it involves luck and yadda yadda yadda, but there is no long-term trend being established here.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Reyes and Ryan
Hard to argue against an unknowable, but I will concede AR’s career has been thrown off course by injury. So, it is possible that Reyes could someday be a good major league pitcher and might still reach that level. But the fact is, he isn’t today, and apparently he is healthy now. Maybe I missed something, but his injury was the elbow (TJ surgery), so why isn’t he back and making progress? He was invited to Cleveland spring training this year, but is not on anyone’s major league roster.
As they say, I wonder what’s up with that?
It should be noted, too, that Anthony Reyes pitched AND won a Game 1 of a World Series under Tony La Russa. Now, I’ll stipulate that if someone had been better rested, Reyes wouldn’t have gotten that opportunity, but he did and he did succeed in it. Just as you can speculate about the what-if regarding Reyes’ injury, I could just as readily speculate that the things that Reyes learned under Duncan, the rest of the coaching staff and La Russa were important contributors to his ability to handle that WS assignment. Somehow I don’t think Reyes was ready for Game 1 of the World Series the day after he got the first call from Memphis.
On Ryan, I do think there also was some real ability there, but The Excitable Boy always seemed to be his worst enemy. His preparation was clearly suspect (forgetting sunglasses regularly, and once, his glove!). I really thought that Ryan might have put all that behind him when he took the starting job away from Kahlil Greene, but he remained highly erratic throughout his time on the Cardinal roster, and that came through in his uneven performance.
I have a hard time closing my eyes and seeing Brendan Ryan on a World Series championship team. Maybe I need to try harder.
Anyway, if the case against La Russa is so obvious, surely there are better answers to my question than Anthony Reyes and Brendan Ryan. Nobody’s mentioned Kerry Robinson yet.
by VideoSavant55 on Jul 24, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a hard time closing my eyes and seeing Brendan Ryan on a World Series championship team.
How about Ryan Theriot?
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Good point.
So basically we shouldn’t do stupid thought exercises like this because it is about the team and not the player.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
I bet we can even find someone with negative value who walked away with a ring.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
He didn't play.
So Taguchi did get 4 plate appearances for the 2008 phillies after being a terrible hitter for 100 PAs. I’ll count that.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
I seem to remember...
Geoff Blum, October hero. Therefore, anything is possible.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
How about Ryan Theriot?
Yes, but I’m hoping that when I open my eyes, that Theriot is manning 2B.
by VideoSavant55 on Jul 24, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
He's horrible there too! He's the same player standing 70 feet to the right! He does not magically become a better player over there!
The “Theriot would be better at 2B” movement needs to die.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
The player doesn't change but the demands of the position do
Sorry, I can’t agree.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
No, they really don't. One position makes some longer throws. That's pretty much it.
If you think that difference is the difference between Theriot being a useful/good player, then nothing I could type out in a message could change your mind.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think I disagree with your evaluation of Theriot, i.e. as
in Theriot would magically become a great player at 2B. But there are significant positional differences beyond longer throws, e.g. handling the DP.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
The throw on a DP is easier to make as a SS than as a 2B
Why would that be a benefit to weak-armed Theriot? Do you really think that some footwork difference at 2b accrues a benefit to Theriot, who is more experienced at SS? The opposite should be true.
The entire assumption that Theriot would be “better” at 2B is a function of replacing him with a better SS. But there’s no need to move him to 2b to replace him at SS – just get a better SS and bench or cut Theriot.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that his hands won't be any better, and, as you have pointed out several times, the difference in throwing demands of the positions would just affect a few plays over the course of a season.
But he can play deeper there, so his lack of range will be somewhat attenuated at 2nd.
Will this be off-set by his potentially being less comfortable? Maybe, but I don’t think it’s as open and shut as you think.
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
And what about his batting and base running and every other part of defense that comprises his ability as a ball player?
What possible affect on all the rest of his overall value do you think is captured by the “positional adjustment” you describe above (assuming it exists)?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Either way
i don’t think Theriot would be as valuable as Skip at 2B. Skip sucks, but so does Riot.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Oh, pretty small. I think the bulk of the Theriot to second argument came before
Theriot couldn’t get on base for a month, Skip was good for a month, and Punto became unable to throw from across the diamond.
If you think Skip can keep up what he’s been doing recently, no need to worry with Theriot. On the other hand, if you’re a Skip skeptic, I think there’s still some room to consider moving him.
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
Still does not make any sense, sorry.
If I were a skip skeptic, why wouldn’t i get the same benefit by replacing skip with someone other than Theriot? It does not make any difference to the team to replace skip with Theriot, only to replace Theriot with the same original replacement candidate for skip – there is no overall benefit to the team.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
A fink, in responding to this question
Please explain why every other player at 2B does not get the same benefit that you posit exists, and why Theriot would be able to take advantage of it in a way the other player would not, thus accruing a benefit to the team by moving Theriot in particular to 2b-
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
There are days his bat is a bigger benefit to the lineup than his glove is a liability.
I think he should start over DD and Skip against lefties.
That leaves him and Punto as our MI’s. So the question is:
What is a stronger defensive orientation: Theriot at short or Theriot at 2nd?
On to your question:
So you’re asking, wouldn’t the decreased range that Punto would suffer by moving from 2nd to short be equivalent to the increased range that Theriot would gain by going the other direction, right?
That seems right to me. On the other hand, Punto could handle hard hit balls at short nearly equally as well as at 2nd, since he’s so superior there. Theriot could potentially be much better at handling hard hit balls at 2nd, since he’d have more time to position himself.
In the end, I think you’re right. The differences are probably marginal, but that doesn’t mean they’re not worth exploring.
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
Platoon advantages are not what we're discussing.
The platoon advantages can be taken advantage of whether Theriot is at SS or 2B so they are irrelevant to this discussion.
And no, your rephrased question about Punto is not what I’m asking.
You posit some benefit to Theriot in being able to play 2B better than he does SS. Fine. I said, if your hypothesis is correct, what is so special about Theriot that he can take advantage of it at 2B but that the players he is replacing there do not get the same benefit?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
They do. Skip does. I'm not sure how that's relevant, though.
If his bat will (and should) put him in the line-up at least against lefties, we have to play him somewhere.
Which is the better defensive orientation? That’s the only question.
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
We're talking past each other at this point.
My point really doesn’t have anything to do with Theriot per se. It would be applicable to every player. It’s simply a question of logic (i.e., logic in the sense of "if A, then B, etc) and a function of how performance metrics are calculated.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
And from my part, I’m trying to look at it as a specific situation rather than a general one.
One specific question:
Do you think that a (healthy) Punto at short and Theriot at 2nd MI has a significant (use your own definition of significant) chance of being better defensively than Theriot at short and Punto at 2nd?
I’m just curious, and yes or no will suffice unless you feel like trying to explain it to me again!
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
Theriot is below replacement level right now.
Moving to second base his defense would improve, slightly, but his value would go down due to him not being at as valuable a defensive position. He would remain below replacement level.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
this argument really does happen like once a week, doesn't it
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The argument may be reoccurring,
but Theriot is getting worse. At this point it isn’t really arguable that Skip is not an improvement over Theriot: That’s obvious. At this point, Theriot is producing roughly what we would expect from Tyler Greene or Pete Kozma, except that he is getting paid five times as much.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
i just mean the Theriot shifting to 2B- does it improve his value or not
i agree 100% about how bad Theriot is- i’ve been beating that drum too.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
what?
At this point it isn’t really arguable that Skip is not an improvement over Theriot: That’s obvious
It’s not all that long ago that Theriot was getting on base .90 points over Skip. You’re overstating things drastically.
But, whatever. It doesn’t really matter. They both are pretty bad players.
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
Uh, yeah,
except Theriot was playing over his head while skip was playing against lefties. Now that those two things have stopped, Schumaker>Theriot and it’s not really arguable.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
yeah, but
ok, I don’t really care, I want both of them dfa’d :)
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Thankfully, both of them probably won't be back next year.
Feels good to say that!
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 24, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's hope
But who would play SS?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Well, I'd make up some names.
But at this point, I think anybody would be an improvement.
FFS, Tyler Greene would be an improvement.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 24, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
That remains to be seen
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Here's a fairly depressing stat.
Last two seasons:
Theriot: -0.3 fWAR
Greene: 0.1 fWAR
Theriot: .300 BABIP
Greene: .270 BABIP (Both are estimated)
Theriot: .288 wOBA
Greene: .287 wOBA
And let’s not get into the defense cause that’s one’s pretty obvious.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 24, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
As of right now, Theriot is definitely worse than Skip.
You brought up stats from earlier in the season, but it’s pretty apparent from about three seasons of data that Skip>Theriot.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
Not a prick, just irrelevant to the argument.
Our MIF right now in terms of value is probably Punto (uninjured)=Craig>Descalso>Punto (injured)>Schumaker>Greene=Kozma=Theriot
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
Bu we're not comparing Theriot to a hypothetical replacement player.
A fink’s hypothesis (and the rest of the move Theriot to 2b crowd) is that this team will be better if we only rearrange the same players on the field.
It’s the same idea as saying if only lance berkman played LF and Holliday played RF, because, say, Holliday has a better arm, then the Cards, as a team, will increase its overall WAR.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It would not affect WAR whatsoever, in theory. Definitely not fWAR
But it will affect runs allowed, which has an effect on rWAR
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
And I would say that any argument
That it would affect actual runs allowed is speculative, and even if true, would be so small as to be subsumed by error and unable to be shown.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
If you stuck Albert Pujols at SS, many more balls would get through the infield
His WAR wouldn’t change, because he hits so much better than the average SS
The pitcher’s WAR wouldn’t change (much), because his WAR is based on FIP
However, we allow a LOT more runs. That’s simply logical
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
That's a bad example because Pujols is badass and Theriot is fucking terrible
But you get the point
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Yes, I understand that point.
And actually, his WAR, if this experiment was really tried, would change because of the different population of defenders he is being compared against. But that is really a separate point. You are right that the team’s Runs allowed would change, just as it would if we stuck him at catcher or CF, other positions he really couldn’t play at a ML level.
But all of that is different than what we’re talking about, which is switching players from their historical positions to positions they have played less, because of some ephemeral or hypothetical statistical or scouting difference between the players.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't this say more about the boundaries of what WAR tells us
than about these defensive configurations?
WAR is intended to tell us about a player’s worth in some sort of roughly comparable way. It doesn’t mean that a team would be equally well off with their first baseman at short and their shortstop at first.
I think there is a case to be made that Punto-6 Theriot-4 is a superior defensive alignment to its opposite sheerly based on the fact that the shortstop will (on average, against a majority right-handed lineup) have more opportunities.
I actually don't think that, empirically, that holds true
Most of the issue is the arm, I think?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Except that SS does not receive more opportunities, which someone verified with numbers.
We’ve gone over this in previous threads, so you probably didn’t see it.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm actually kind of surprised at that
Do you remember if there was a proposed reason why SS wouldn’t see more?
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Don't know, but the numbers
Of opportunities were essentially the same (it was a slight number advantage to 2b but it was negligible.)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 24, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
As of now,
Chances= Putouts+Assists+Errors. Doesn’t factor in balls that get through, I guess.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 24, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
And maybe the Assists number is inflating 2B chances?
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 24, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
From the same links
Balls fielded 2B: 5376
Balls fielded SS: 5916
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 24, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
while on the dead horse
I haven’t checked lately, but this is where there’s a kernel of truth to the clubhouse downer things attached to Ryan. when he got down on himself, it seemed to be extremely difficult to break him out of it. he tried very hard to be a team player, but that meant he was prone to rather dramatic fits of despair and self-blame.
so it would be interesting to check in on his purported leadership role now, while the M’s are in the middle of their skid.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
All speculation here
But I wouldn’t be surprised that the biggest factors in Ryan getting traded were:
1.) Performance
2.) Having wrist surgery right before the start of Spring training
3.) Wrist concerns
4.) club housingness.
Grit != flat out sucking.
On Reyes and Ryan... Maybe
1) Reyes – we really have no idea. Outside of a great game here or there, Reyes has shown relatively little in the big leagues. Perhaps he would have become dominant without injuries or with more time… but that’s just guess work.
2) Ryan – he is having a good year no doubt, but there is no certainty he can sustain it. Also, Ryan was given every oppurtunity to succeed here. He kept getting playing time despite hitting about .200 and his defense suffering last year. Finally, from what teammates said in the media after his departure, it seems that the problems were as much or more problems between him and teammates than between him and LaRussa.
I don't think that I'm laying responsibility for not producing young players at the feet of Tony LaRussa.
I’m merely stating what their reputations are. The Braves are known for cultivating young talent through their minor league system — up until a few years ago, the Cardinals really hadn’t worked that angle as an organization.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Responsibility
You can accuse me of reading between the lines here, but then I didn’t organize the order of the lines.
The teams are dealing with different personalities. Jason Heyward may well be more affable than Colby Rasmus. I’d bet money that Fredi Gonzalez is no Tony LaRussa in the clubhouse. The Braves had a long history under Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz of developing young talent and nurturing it through the big league transition. The Cardinals, frankly, do not. Whether Frank Wren (a Schuerholz disciple) and Fredi Gonzalez will continue that tradition will only be known with time but, not throwing their young star under the media bus is a good start..
by VideoSavant55 on Jul 24, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
This phrase, which you seem to gloss over, is key.
The Cardinals, frankly, do not.
That does not say, “Tony LaRussa, frankly, does not.” but rather indicts the system. Specifically, I’m thinking back to Walt Jocketty era baseball which included both Tony LaRussa, John Mozeliak and much of the front office.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Home Field Advantage
OK — yeah, I should have known that you meant Jocketty, and Mozeliak, too, because…I just should have. Naming everyone but the bat boy over in Atlanta while the only Cardinal worthy of a mention is La Russa is a massively clever mode of clarity.
So, I see your point (which exists only in a universe populated entirely by writers working without editors).
by VideoSavant55 on Jul 24, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry.
I’ll be sure to list the entire Cardinals front office directory next time. I thought the parallels of referencing the past GM and current GM and past coach and current coach of the Braves and then indicating that the Cardinals club is oppositely regarded would be enough given the level of intelligence that I generally assume commenters here had.
So, I see your point (which only exists in a universe populated entirely by people who can’t draw obvious parallels).
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
by azruavatar on Jul 24, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good lord
VEB is full of ingrates this week. Earlier we get people bitching about the comments and then bitching about how they don’t like one act plays.
If people who consider me abrasive, which I’ll readily admit I am, want a reason why - here you go.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
by azruavatar on Jul 24, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
guess I took a good week to not post much
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I sent out the minions
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I haven’t been around much either. I am now glad.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Is it worth it to read back on the threads?
I’ll do it anyway, but I’ve missed nearly every thread while on vacation.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 24, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
tony la russa has a very long history of running people off with his personality. he does it practically every year.
brendan ryan, adam kennedy (not that he was a special second baseman, but he has been worth a win more than skippy), scott rolen . . .
there’s an expression that if you meet three assholes in a day, you’re the asshole. if you constantly run into players who you simply cannot deal with every other season who must then be traded, you’re the problem. if tony succeeds in running these players off, he’s hurting the team a great deal, probably more than any harm he could do by starting the wrong guy second in the order.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
I've always heard the saying,
“The one constant in all your dysfunctional relationships is you.”
Got a beer thrown on my at a bar once when I broke it out on a female acquaintance of mine who was lamenting her latest in a line of dating misadventures. It was worth the laughs from the rest of the group, however.
It seemed like it was the players that had a problem with Brendan Ryan.
Lohse, Franklin and “unnamed players” (I think I have the players right) all had interviews/quotes against Brendan Ryan. Saying that Boog was ran off by TLR is unfair.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
ok, but tony seemed to have his own role in the drama. i'd also be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt
if he hadn’t been knee-deep in the other forced trades.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
I am NOT forgiving TLR for Scott Rolen either, but...
Scotty did plenty of talking/complaining and making a scene prior to his evacuation from the team. He contributed a bit to that forced trade.
That whole situation was awfully handled by all parties. (I blame TLR & the FO much more though)
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
you can come up with lots of reasons for why each individual instance is not tony's fault.
the fact remains that we’ve had forced trades for three different players in the last five years, and we’re looking at a possible fourth. most managers do not have that kind of history. at some point, we have to look at what’s common to all the situations – i.e., my original statement.
tony is the common factor.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
I think we'll just have to disagree on this.
I actually had a retort all typed out, but hitting the delete button sent me back a page instead.
Irregardless, I understand your position and can see the merits of it. I just don’t agree, and think the connections are a little tenuous for me…especially if applying this to the 2011 Colby situation.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
LaRussa is the manager
At some point he needs to step in and say “Shut up guys. He’s in there for his glove. I don’t give a shit about his hyperactivity and as professionals and adults neither should you. Play the game”. I’m paraphrasing of course.
Instead he did what LaRussa always does by playing the blame game and tossing people under the bus. Then they get traded.
"Go crazy, folks, go crazy! It's a home run, and the Cardinals have won the game, by the score of 3 to 2, on a home run by the Wizard! Go crazy!" - Jack Buck (my earliest baseball memories)
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111459762327473828979/posts
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 25, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
so I've been extremely busy this summer and way out of the loop
when is Allen Craig supposed to be back? It’ll be nice to have his bat back.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
the beginning of august I think
If we get him back it’s and he doesn’t take to long to start producing it’s like adding a plus bat without having to give anything via trade
It would be akin to just such an occurrence.
Also, Craig started at second base in his first rehab game in AAA.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Craig at 2B makes me happy.
Skip has been playing (at least hitting) pretty well as of late, Craig and Skip would be a nice little platoon at 2B, for a bit.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
W/ Dirty Dan flashing some nice leather at SS and with Craig rehab in the minors
all of the sudden the MIF is a lot more palatable. Descalso and Punto’s batting having been trending upwards. So the possibility of platooning at both SS and 2B seems kind of interesting.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Question for those who followed him through the minors:
Has Descalso typically “grown into” higher levels of play as he’s promoted? He seems to be increasingly finding his footing as a major leaguer. If he can keep playing at his current level he’d be a valuable member of a SS or 2B platoon.
and then was replaced with a pinch runner, right?
That should tell us more about his actual progress. It appears that he’s still having troubles running at full speed.
by stxcardsfan on Jul 24, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
or they just didn't see a reason to chance it
and tried to preemptively prevent the freese-breaks-other-ankle-running-home-from-third-in-a-rehab-start situation from last year
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 68
If the Braves traded Jason Heyward & it netted the Cardinals James Shields...
I would totally do that trade!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
If you can pull that off
I’ll fund your nomination for President.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 24, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I think a change of scenery for Rasmus/Heyward might do them good
Colby would be closer to his family in ’bama.
If i was colby
i’d move to the Japanese leagues, to get away from daddy.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 108
NL Record: '58 Cardinals, 166
ML Record: '90 Red Sox, 174
or
he could just be a man and tell daddy to but out and allow him and the Cards to do their thing.
by stxcardsfan on Jul 24, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
You don't know much about traditional Southern families, do you?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 24, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
So true.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Well, I guess we'll just have to trade them Rasmus for Heyward
That way Heyward can fill in for Berkman if we don’t re-sign him. We’ll have to go with an everyday lineup that includes Pujols, Holliday, Freese, Heyward, Jay, Craig (at second base of course), Reyes (oh yeah I forgot to mention we traded Kelly, Taveras, and Dickson for Jose Reyes, obviously quite fair on both sides), Molina, pitcher.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
I have a source that tells me these trades would be totally awesome.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
by mattybobo on Jul 24, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Rasmus
It would appear that the "trade Colby Rasmus" thing is approaching critical mass as 31 July looms. But is this based on the mind set and impending actions of the front office or the cumulative speculations of the press and the fanbase? . I personally hope it’s the latter. Although a Rasmus trade in which we got a solid, cost controlled front line pitcher, or middle infielder of comparable talent, would seem to me understandable, I am not onboard at all with moving him for "let’s put this behind us" sake.
A good example of the media’s ongoing over reaction and misinformation is in Joe Strauss’ article today in the PD. He writes: "General manager John Mozeliak has made clear his distaste for trading center fielder Colby Rasmus, a stance that confuses a number within the organization increasingly aware of La Russa’s preference for Jon Jay." Say what? Jay has played the last few games because Colby is hitting .170 or so in July. The guys in a slump and you play another player to try to win ball games. Nowhere does that suggest that LaRussa prefers Jay or that he has given up on Rasmus, despite their checkered relationship.
Colby’s struggles recently are real and can not be denied, but they should always be seen in the context of his obvious talent and potential, and not be folded into wild and speculative derivatives of his ongoing dissolution
by deweydell on Jul 24, 2011 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
TLR has recently shown a preference for starting the currently better-performing player. Dirty Dan has been getting starts at SS (allowing him to do a dirty tongue maneuver after making the final out last night), but you don’t hear about Tony’s distaste for Rioting (oh i wish). Very few people know if TLR is sitting Colby due to a preference for Justice, if he attempting to shield Colby from intense scrutiny while he works out kinks in his swing or if he is punishing Colby for kissing his (quite attractive) daughter after insulting a puppy at an ARF benefit. We don’t know because Tony isn’t talking, Colby isn’t talking and all Mo is saying is “we’re not trading Colby…”
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Exactly this
we seem to be getting the version of TLR who lets the guys wielding the hot bats play. He’s done this with great effect in the past (think ‘06 playoffs), and I’d love to see him keep making lineups this way.
I'm not prone to violence
but I would like to break all of Strauss’ fingers so he can’t type anything for a couple of weeks without beating his nose into the keyboard.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 24, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
well breaking fingers might be a little extreme...
but then again… what is a fit punishment?
JS ignores journalistic integrity for the sake of sensationalism.
“General manager John Mozeliak has made clear his distaste for trading center fielder Colby Rasmus, a stance that confuses a number within the organization increasingly aware of La Russa’s preference for Jon Jay.”
What the heck does that mean. Jay is hitting. Colby is not. Before the All Star break, TLR will play someone more in a slump trying to get them going. After the All Star break, he is biased towards the hot hand. That has been his pattern.
JS is so annoyiing.
Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Mark Twain
I tried valiantly to make it through Strauss' article
but ultimately couldn’t. Also, Strauss apparently thinks “tapping down expectations” is a thing.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
Little cobbler nails.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah winced at that
There was another major usage error.
But I give people a lot of slack when they have to produce stuff on deadline year after year. I haven’t filed 5 columns a week for 10+ years, so “I cain’t go chunkin’ no rocks.”
The silly opinions are another thing, though.
Local papers can and still do great deep-background reporting on local stuff. how to keep monetizing that…?
Strauss is annoying, but I’m glad I’m not in his chair.
YOG
by YearOfGlad on Jul 24, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the other great one was Pedro Feliz "creating more answers than he answered"
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
me too, but that's when it's coupled with good writing
which Strauss shows no desire to produce (although, in fairness to him, he has shown the ABILITY to do so in the past- just no application of it anytime recently).
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
The novice said to Master Strauss
“might a decent fielder with an OPS+ below 50 be the answer to our problems at third base?”
Master Strauss replied, “He may be the answer to many things, but who will be the answer to those answers?”
And the novice was enlightened.
by Robth on Jul 24, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
This makes upset that you can't Rec on the mobile site because I agree so much
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 24, 2011 10:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you know the media inevitably picks a couple of players to beat on every year
this year it’s colby again. no matter the cost and the damage you do, you gotta sell newspapers and make people read you and talk about you or you’re out of a job
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 68
The operative word is "recent"
in deweydell (and others’) excellent point about Tony playing the hot hand. I don’t put that label, or feature, call it what you will, around my overall concept of TLR-manager. The opposite in fact. My brain cascades with a long list of players that he has, historically, stayed with too long and given too much of a chance (when a shake-up would have been more beneficial. Perhaps the majority on my mental list were veteran players, but I still have Isringhausen phobia when it comes to Tony’s “decisions.”
Nor do I thing that his incessant line-up changes are “paly the hot hand” driven.
Recently? yes, and bravo for that. But with Tony I feel it is more of a ’it’s about time’ thing than it is a chronic, basic part of his managing
Why in the world.....
are you comparing a 24 year old with 382 career games played, to a 21 year old with 218 games played?
There can be a LOT of maturing in those 3 years. Also, this is the first time Heyward is struggling. The same cannot be said for Colby.
Really? Did you even read the piece?
I mentioned both the parallels and the differences. I made the comparison to make a point about media and the collective fan consciousness.
Also, nowhere did I say that Jason Heyward was immature so you might want to try and do a better job of understanding the post.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Right but that statement makes no sense in the context of the post
given that I conceded Heyward may be the easier player to coach (i.e. more affable).
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
there are differences
1.) Rasmus is in his third year, Heyward his second. Rasmus will cost more next year. (though not much if he keeps sucking)
2.) Heyward is three years younger than Rasmus
3.) I haven’t seen Heyward enough in the outfield to know if he has some of the same “adventures” that rasmus has.
4.) The Braves don’t have someone else who is better than Heyward fighting for playing time.
I don’t understand how it’s tony’s fault for not being able to develop talent because he is playing one young, homegrown left-handed centerfielder over another young, homegrown left-handed center-fielder.
Jon Jay has been worth .6 more WAR than Colby in a 100 less PAs. If we change the Jay’s name to “rasmus” and Colby’s name to “Ankiel” VEB would be throwing a fit that Tony didn’t yank the cord on “Ankiel” earlier so “Rasmus” can play.
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Jul 24, 2011 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
this is so wrong i don't even know where to begin.
If we change the Jay’s name to "rasmus" and Colby’s name to "Ankiel" VEB would be throwing a fit that Tony didn’t yank the cord on "Ankiel" earlier so "Rasmus" can play.
you are normally an exceptionally reasonable person, so i will just leave this as is and not touch it anymore than i have.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
i believe you are the first person to every describe me as "exceptionally reasonable"
so um, you’re correct.
Grit != flat out sucking.
is Ankiel even worth 0 WAR?
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
woh
surprisingly Ankiel has not had any negative WAR seasons as an outfielder. worth 4.8 WAR as an outfielder/hitter. but that’s in like 1500 PA
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting note from the latest post at mlbtraderumors.com
Describing Ken Rosenthal’s latest stuff:
While the Braves still figure to acquire a right-handed hitter, Rosenthal points out that Dan Uggla and Jason Heyward have recently shown signs of heating up. Increased production from that pair could be the equivalent of adding an impact bat.
Heh.
(Rosenthal’s article too for citationality.)
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
by mattybobo on Jul 24, 2011 10:34 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
bahaha i was going to post this. you get a rec anyway.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
You're too kind sir
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
You know, Chip....
Hit me up on Google+
by jd is legend on Jul 24, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I have not heard any comments from McGwire about Colby's hitting struggles
but, McGwire wisely keeps a pretty low profile — does his work at the cages and in workouts and doesn’t ever criticize a guy in the media.
I do wonder, though, what the staff, especially Mac, think of Colby’s swing/stance/head. If there’s some failure of communication that is frustrating all parties.
I just have a bad feeling that at this point Colby cannot succeed here.
YOG
I'd just like to take this opportunity to say:
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 24, 2011 10:55 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Wow, even kinda looks like Berkman
At some point I need a tutorial on how to post small, hilarious images in my comments.
And I need one on how to do so on an iPhone
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 24, 2011 12:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If we're not into the whole brevity thing.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Berk gotta Berk
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
So what day does VEB have for Pujols' 2000th hit?
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 24, 2011 11:00 AM EDT reply actions
your unwavering positivity is infectious.
I greatly appreciate it.
And i hope your sig comes true.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Hey hey
I know y’all are gonna miss me, cause i’m going away for 3 weeks. and will be without internet connection. I do hope you manage to cope without my witty insights and breathtaking commenting skills.
GO CRADS. Catch you in late August VEB!!
x
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 108
NL Record: '58 Cardinals, 166
ML Record: '90 Red Sox, 174
Thats would be just splendid
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 108
NL Record: '58 Cardinals, 166
ML Record: '90 Red Sox, 174
speaking of
we didn’t GIDP last night did we?
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 108
NL Record: '58 Cardinals, 166
ML Record: '90 Red Sox, 174
shit, i'll be going back to school when you get back.
DO NOT WANT TO THINK ABOUT
"I love Matt Holliday soooooo much" -azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 24, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
it's college...
if you don’t want the school year to start, you’re doing college wrong. Adjust accordingly this year.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
haha i want to go back to school...
just don’t want school to start. i’m going up a week before school starts this year. i plan on drinking for seven straight days.
"I love Matt Holliday soooooo much" -azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 24, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
some of us would be exceptionally happy to go back to college.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
shoulder again, i see.
poor guy. i would rather he didn’t play for the Reds- but i still feel bad for him. wish he could stay healthy.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
yup
/fantasy team
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
we still love you, scotty
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Second DL trip for Rolen this season due to his shoulder, isn't it?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
lineup. Colby sighting.
Theriot SS
Jay LF
Pujols 1B
Berkman RF
Rasmus CF
Schumaker 2B
Laird C
Descalso 3B
Lohse P
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
judging by this lineup
we appear to be working out a deal to trade Molina, Holliday, and Freese.
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Jul 24, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
WOW!!!
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
That's a decent package...
I wonder if the Giants are open to flipping Keppinger.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
nah, it's obviously just a routine day off
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 24, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
There Are No Coincidences!
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 24, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL at Descalso at third
play the hot hand tony! play him at SS!
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
he has really seemed to be struggling as of late.
lots of Ks
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
9 Ks in the last 4 games
that’s more what i was talking about. He seems to be swinging and missing alot. I didn’t mean to insinuate anything serious
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I guess Freese too
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems that TLR has been giving Molina every third game off since the summer heat kicked in.
This is a good thing, in my opinion.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
DAmmit, I was honestly hoping Descalso
would get 2 days in a row at SS.
yeah, that woulda been good
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
where's Big Matt?
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
classic third game of series lineup
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
from MLB's preview of today's game:
“Last year I paid little attention to the series that the Cardinals had in Cincinnati, where it was a national buildup,” Hurdle said. “The Cardinals went in and had their way, and supposedly put an end to the season for the Reds. Didn’t quite finish that way.”
Those sound like fightin’ words. We better whip these clowns for the rest of the season and put them back in their place.
I like it.
A competitive division like this is awesome! 3 & 4 team races can be enthralling!
Clint Hurdle is a pretty cool dude.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
a few years ago
it was the best divisionin baseball and noone was talking about it…course none faired well in playoffs…the records were better but this year is exciting too
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Descalso at SS with Craig getting regular time at second
uh, yeah. I could get used to that,
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
He has a good arm and good hands.
What do we know about his range there?
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
SSS but if you watched the plays yesterday
The range was borderline crazy.
If that bears out, he could be a very valuable utility guy with legit starter upside over the next few years for us.
He’ll need to work on his footwork at short for sure, and I think he’s still learning how to deal with big-league pitching, but he definitely looks like a real keeper.
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
i agree.
i have been very impressed with how he has improved his hitting approach as the year has moved on. i think we all will agree he still looks somewhat overmatched against very good pitching, but it was a foregone conclusion he was an out against a good pitcher earlier in the year, and now i have some faith.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless he starts hitting lefties better it's hard to see him as a true everyday starter
but I’d love to see him get the chance to become the default option against righties.
Go look at the mlb.com highlights for yesterday's game...
four of the 12 (or so) are DD, and three of those four are defensive.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Thanks. I saw some of those last night, but I was out by that last play. That was terrific.
Is Jon Jay the new Willie McGee?
His range seems so-so to me:
Plus arm, good hands with average to slightly below range is a good defensive player.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
Range can also be mitigated with positioning, reaction time, and instincts. I feel like he'd do pretty well
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
just watch the highlights from yesterday's game
and be astounded
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
but Theriot
d’oh
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do the Cardinals wait to figure this all out in the majors?
I’ll never quite understand why they don’t rotate fringe hitters more between positions in the minors. Rather they do it to players like Donovan Solano, Jose Garcia and Oliver Marmol (i.e. guys who don’t have a future in the majors). I’m sure the org has a reason, probably a good one, but I don’t quite get it.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
From everything I had heard about Descalso, I took it as a foregone conclusion that he would never be this good defensively
Did he just not get the buzz he deserved or something? Maybe he wasn’t challenged enough?
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
I'm routinely skeptical of reported players defense in the minors.
I thought David Freese was atrocious while the organization consistently raved about it. He’s been somewhere in the middle. I don’t recall Descalso being considered a whiz and, last night’s plays aside, I don’t think he has been this season.
I guess I don’t understand the reluctance to get these marginal major league bats looks at different positions when they aren’t likely to be everyday starters. Instead it’s the marginal minor league at bats that get put in a utility role. Again, there’s probably a reason for it, I just don’t understand it.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
jon jay has out-BABIPed rasmus.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
it is also accurate to say Jon Jay has outplayed Rasmus
it is probably not accurate to say Jon Jay’s true talent level is higher than Rasmus. if anyone actually thinks Jay will produce more over the remainder of his career than Rasmus, they are a little out of it, IMO. i would not be surprised if from this point forward, Rasmus produces more value this SEASON than Jay, trade or no trade.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If you want to play semantic games,
then it’s accurate to say Jay has out-lucked Rasmus.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
but he HAS also outplayed him. or at least out-resulted him.
whether or not this is a result of luck or not.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Outplayed implies that something Jay did was the cause of him being better than Rasmus.
Since Jay is not an omnipotent god who controls the outcome of random events, it’s not Jay’s fault that his results have been better than Rasmus.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
You guys are arguing semantics
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
yeah, we are, and it's my fault.
you’re right. i shouldn’t say outplayed. Jon Jay has out resulted Colby Rasmus this year, probably due to no characteristic of his own.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
I like that
out-resulted
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
lolwat
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
if he gets enough playing time
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
and also
outplayed
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
it's hard to point to anything that jay is actually doing better than rasmus, other than getting ball-in-play luck.
if you normalized their luck-driven factors, colby would be substantially better.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
you forgot that jay plays the game the right way.
which is good for 1 WAR off the top.
"I love Matt Holliday soooooo much" -azruavatar
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 24, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, not substantially
ZiPS projects them for the same wOBA going forward I believe.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
wOBAr Jay = .349
wOBAr Rasmus = .332
I think it is fair to say that Jay has outplayed Rasmus “this year”.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
yeah.
it all depends on what the word “play” means. some people choose to use it as meaning “how good is their on-field talent”, while i choose to use it like we use “played well”. if we say “played well”, about a position player, we mean they get good results. i don’t think it’s a stretch to then say “outplayed” means “obtained better results”.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
No, BABIP isn't NECESSARILY luck
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
he has a .286 babip. he hits for a perfectly fine 18.7% line drive rate. he ought to have a babip 15-20 points higher.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
Jay has the second worst BB% on the team, and he has double the K rate of the guy with the worst
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
so you are saying all other offensive stats besides BABIP are worthless
mmk
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
don't be passive-aggressive. i didn't say that, i don't think that, and i doubt you believe that i think that.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
you were only bringing up BABIP, so
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
must be semantics day!
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
clearly, i only think BABIP is valuable? come on. you're better than that.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
maybe just make a more clear argument
but whatevs. rasmus is probably the better player, but as time rolls on they look closer and closer
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
if you'd like me to make a clearer argument, don't make an obnoxious comment.
ask me to clarify.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
welp, I guess I'm just not in a good mood then
carry on. I’ll be back for game thread action
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, he's saying the opposite:
Jay hardly ever walks but he still strikes out at a normal rate. He doesn’t have good discipline so his hitting is even more likely to undergo wide swings in value based on nothing but random BABIP variation.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
Strauss in response to someone
asking about the WOW comment being dead….It’s still alive. Will be posted before game.
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
Strauss always tweets like a petulant child.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
we almost traded rasmus for D. Reyes
but we were miraculously saved at the zero hour by a koala-fish mutant bird,
Grit != flat out sucking.
apparently theres a song too
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did we just trade for that thing?
can it play shortstop?
by Robth on Jul 24, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think this is something Hojo made in his lab.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
new hat
gift from my wife. usually i don’t care for the designs that stretch on to the bill, but i like this one.
i almost got a
hoodie with that logo, but it reminded me to much of a Schoole in Central IL that we played against…course now it’s gone but yeah was a mental hiccup….sweet hat
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude
We need a small version of that pissed-off Gibson-bird for the team’s Sunday caps.
The little polite bird ain’t cuttin’ it.
I know that’s a historical repro that you have used for a while. What era is it from?
Some chick got that for you
I think she likes you, bro. TXT her back — she might be a keeper.
Or at least a catch-n-release. Or a draft-n-follow, depending on her age.
by YearOfGlad on Jul 24, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
you mean THE HAT
I’m all for it being the Sunday hat. We have had extensive conversations about this hat in the past.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
pretty certain my old roommate has that hat
i will have to verify at a later date though.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
they are available in several places in St. Louis
I’ve got one and The Continental has one. I’m sure there are more. Strange thing is, you can’t find them online anywhere or in stores outside of St. Louis county.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I like it.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Hay guyz
tihs article is totally wrong because Jayson Heyward is bettor than Rasmus and rasmus is from alabama and he is lazy.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
by hazel on Jul 24, 2011 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
dynamite drop in monty
that broadcaster school really paid off
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
well, the age difference is a bit of a thing
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Ramses for Wainwright!
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Ramses let my prospects go!
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
by mattybobo on Jul 24, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Which I acknowledged.
This thread is like a reflection of the front office. Everyone has their opinions of Rasmus set and enters any discussion girded for a fight to prove their point without even considering the premises of the discussion as they are put forth.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
are we going to discuss the Rasmus to White Sox rumors
or just pretend it isn’t happening…
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jul 24, 2011 12:08 PM EDT reply actions
hadnt heard them
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
just got posted. MLBTR/StLToday
again, this is 100% Joe Strauss, afaik.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Strauss drivel. i choose to ignore.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
i see no new tweets
and hes promised one before game time…
raz for jackson? meh
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
no, he posted the article to STLToday which was actually what he said he'd do
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
man im starting to sour on him
Publicly insistent that they are not seeking a destination for center fielder Colby Rasmus,
stir the pot…and bernie gets to me too…why i stopped going to the forums
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
on Strauss?
you hadn’t soured on Strauss already?
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
i just started following him this year
and i dont read all the SPD articles, so I mainly just see his tweets…
but i just hate when he basically said Liar Liar in a poetic way to F.O.
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
ah, k.
well, i think the VEB group opinion on him is that he is a complete and utter asshat, and nothing he says is worth listening to.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
but i like to try and judge myself…i have read the public opinion…this being said i’ll probably still follow his tweets during T.D. but not give a whole lot of hope to them
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahah "Talks also hinge on minor-league talent the White Sox could include"
The Sox don’t have any minor league talent aside from the Cuban whom they’re desperately trying to bring up right now.
at first, i thought this could be okay...
perhaps a beurhle and beckham package would be discussed and we could get immediate and long-term help…
but then I read it and am spectacularly unimpressed with discussions about Edwin Jackson and Matt Thornton
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jul 24, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Mark Buehrle would be a marginal upgrade at best. he is not a very good pitcher, just a very consistently ok one.
not worth while. i honestly would rather have Edwin Jackson.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
is danks a possibility?
i’ve always liked him, and he still has another year of arbitration i believe.
that would be wonderful
but i don’t see why the Sox would trade him.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Thornton is excellent
but man Williams gave him a huge contract.
exactly.
good pitcher and does what we need (LOOGY) but WAY too expensive.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jul 24, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
They're okay as players...
but the contracts aren’t desireable – Thornton is signed for too long, and Jackson is a FA after the season.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
and for too much
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
beckham is not very good
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I want Alexi Ramirez
in any potential rasmus deal with the White Sox.
by rumors on Jul 24, 2011 1:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Unfavorable (though not completely terrible) contract
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
He'll be 35 in 2015, btw
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Don't you correct me!
Do you know who I am!?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Soccer loving Asian who works for no pay?
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 24, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
...Yep!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I would rather pay for production
And have a solid SS for the forseeable future, than watch theriot and whoever we sign after him fail miserably.
by rumors on Jul 24, 2011 1:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You don't trade 3 years of cost controlled talent
For 4 years of expensive talent
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
"expensive"
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 24, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
but you do
Trade 3 years of cost controlled talent for 4 years of below market value above average production.
by rumors on Jul 24, 2011 2:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't really see anything in that organization I'd want to swap Rasmus for
though I wouldn’t mind taking a swipe at Tyler Flowers. But there’s nothing pitching wise or players that play a position up the middle that intrigue me.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Chris Sale
Gordon Beckham
Tyler Flowers
Jared Mitchell?
I wouldn’t hate a package of those 4
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i don't see the attraction in jared mitchell.
he came back from a year-long injury hiatus and hits for a .322 wOBA in high-A (driven by a .336 BABIP). he strikes out 30+% of the time. seems like he’d be about our sixth or seventh best outfielder in the system.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
I don't know if you're being ironic
But you can’t chide me for my argument against Zack Cox and then make this argument
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i'm not rehashing the argument, but in sum, the only thing i said was that reasonable people could disagree.
i didn’t say “no one is allowed to hold cox’s half-season against him.” i said, "some people could reasonably rely on the scouting and minimize the importance of the half-season in the minors. " as azru says below, mitchell is all projection. i didn’t even say that i agreed with law putting him in the top 100. i just said there was an argument for it.
i made this point several times in that discussion.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
Oh I see, fair enough
My b dawg
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Sale is good but he's a reliever.
I guess I’d probable take that package but I can’t envision the White Sox moving that much cost controlled talent for Rasmus. Still, it’s a package of reliever, average 2B, all bat catcher and all projection High-A center fielder. That looks like we’re swapping pure projection for pure projection. I’d rather see us pay extra to get someone like James Shields or a better starting pitcher by sending some of our prospects away with Rasmus.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
Actually, yeah, I agree with you
If we’re trading Colby, it’s for major league talent
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
why is berk not in on MVP talk
where would this team be without him?
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
is there legitimate MVP talk yet?
i have to imagine Berkman will receive a significant number of votes, although i don’t see him winning as of now…
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
ya
thought that’s what you meant. i agree.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i know he'll get
comeback votes probably even though he didnt have a huge injury last yr….
i’ve heard this and that out there…but he’s a Card so he wont get a ton of clamor
I just think without him in april or now…Sunk
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
for sure.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
there's already MVP talk?
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
if the white sox are interested in raz
i’m surprised mark buehrle isn’t jumping at the chance, since he’s said he wants to play for the cards one day.
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
trade colby.
twitter
trading for buehrle
would trigger a $15M option for next year… i’d rather just pick up carpenter’s option.
me too
especially because Chris Carpenter is a significantly better pitcher.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
it's going to be hard for me to see Carp
in any other uni if that happens
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah.
the day Carp leaves this team is the day i take a significant amount of time off from devoted following. not that i am saying it would be because i disapprove in how it happens- Carp has just been emblematic of the Cardinals i have grown to love and when it leaves it is going to feel like the end of an era to me.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
i remeber when they signed him, i was excited cause i felt he was good in Toronto and the way they waited on him…kinda neat i thought…
The best way to pitch Pujols is when he broke his wrist-Steve Blass(pirates announcer)
by punchinjudy on Jul 24, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
yah.
i’m sure it’s happened before but i have no memory of a baseball team ever signing someone despite knowing they would be out for the first year (maybe the Yankees and Jon Lieber…). i thought it was very, very cool.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Buehrle has been talking about retirement after his current contract is up
If he truly wants to play for the Cards before he retires, I assume they can sign him to a cheap one year deal once his current contract is done. If he doesn’t want the deal, he can retire or go play somewhere else. I’d take Buerhle as a 5th starter on the cheap next year, if his option is declined.
by stxcardsfan on Jul 24, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
this, i could go for
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
If we give them Rasmus,
We better get more than Buehrle.
by rumors on Jul 24, 2011 1:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that would be major major trade fail
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I keep hearing a lot of chatter on james shields
is anyone else concerned that considering his past he won’t be able to maintain his current level of production? The rays are going to sell incredibly high on someone who isn’t necessarily going to live up to the cost.
i would always be wary of trading with the Rays
they have the magic Rays voodoo. that being said, Shields is so cheap he could regress considerably and still be worth his contract. i think he is worth a big, big haul.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
This White Sox trade was be TURRIBLE
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
indeed
Thornton does sound great though… wish he wasn’t so pricey.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice grammar dickface
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
not the Holliday trade
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
the whole Rasmus situation is seeming like
people get bored mid season and roll out the gossip mill again. oh, hey, let’s bring up the Rasmus soap opera, one which we have little information on, and blow it out of proportion. only this year it probably stings more for Rasmus since he’s had some kind of prolonged slump.
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:33 PM EDT reply actions
if by people you mean Joe Strauss, yeah!
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
by tehzachatak on Jul 24, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought lots of people talked about trading Rasmus
but I’m out of the loop, dunno really
FIRE TONY RASMUS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
JAIME!
stlcardinals St. Louis Cardinals
Jaime Garcia is the first Cardinals lefty since Donovan Osborne in 1992-93 to reach double-digit wins in consecutive seasons. #CardsFacts
/snoopydance
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 24, 2011 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Osborne was a lefty?
Wow. My 6-year-old self clearly wasn’t very attentive.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 24, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you ever been dying for coffee and just had to go without because...
you couldn’t bring yourself to make it? That’s where I’m at.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
yes
however i am going to game the system by going to go get someone else to make it for me in exchange for cash, despite this probably being more work.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
This gives me an idea for a new business...
hangover care. You pay a flat monthly rate plus per hour fee for someone to be on call to help when you’re hungover. This could include making coffee/bloody mary, going to CVS for meds, or providing a prostitute.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Money can be exchanged for goods and services
Woo hoo!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
wait, so you're saying i shouldn't have been burning it for warmth? i can use it for other things?
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
I fell asleep at 6 am
And had to sleep in the car (Might I add that it was not comfortable – I woke up with my whole left hand numb which is an interesting feeling by the way) and get 4 hours of sleep. I thought I’d be more tired right now, but one Mountain Dew and I’m chipper.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 24, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Why are "intra-division" trades so difficult?
The Astros are not going to compete for the NL Central title during the length of Wandy’s current contract. Why not send him to the Reds in exchange for prospects thus weakening them for the time period when the Astros could compete?
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Rasmus just needs to play better
And all this goes away. If he were playing to his natural talent level, these conversations wouldn’t be taking place. Fans would side on Colby’s side and tell LaRussa to eat his hat. Instead, Rasmus struggles and has made some cautious/awful plays in the OF while Jay has squeezed every ounce of talent he can out of his skill set while doing it looking like he’s giving 120%. And as we all know, Cardinals faithful don’t care how good/bad you are as long as you LOOK like you are trying your damndest.
Now, that’s not to discredit Jon Jay. He’s a great 4th OF’er. But Colby playing to where he SHOULD is an All-star caliber player. His struggles have led to criticism, which has led to friction which has led to more struggles. At this point the on field management doesn’t care IF he does it, its all about HOW he does it which is ‘their’ way.
Its a lose/lose situation which is sad and needs to end in someway at this point.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 24, 2011 1:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i'm not quite there, yet
although Colby does not seem like the kind of player that struggles under intense scrutiny, so of course Tony’s approach is to intensely scrutinize everything he does. That being said, Colby’s babip starts to normalize, he jacks a couple dongs, he makes a great catch…and this all starts to dissipate. Until the next time he struggles, of course, which is why I see your point.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
Once the trade deadline passes, this goes away.
In the offseason, the Cardinals will need four OFers after they either re-sign Pujols or re-sign Berkman for first base. That ought to effectively end the trade calls, too.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This is his natural talent level..or at least closer to it.
It was last year that was a fluke. He’s likely not going to have many years with a .354 BABIP…
most people peak in their late-20s, even up to 30. most likely, he's nowhere near his peak.
you have no basis for declaring that he’s at his natural talent level.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
FSN thinks Big Mac was a better deadline deal than Rolen
do you agree?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
no way.
rolen was more valuable in his post-trade partial season (3.3 WAR) than mac (2.3). and, to the extent we care about mid-season pickups turning into permanent fixtures, rolen was more valuable in the long-term for the cardinals than mac.
to the extent that mac was a better deal, he may have been a better individual investment for the monetary value of the home run chase.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 24, 2011 1:31 PM EDT reply actions
I always forget to check for those roll-over captions
Well done, indeed.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
The roll overs remind me of XKCD
but not all the pictures in the database are compatible with that style of crop.
Joe Strauss is the greatest journalist since Edward R. Murrow.
Also, I would kiss Rui on the kiss cam.
I think a better comp in the Braves organization and history would be Yunel Escobar
Talented player that the fans disliked because of some perceived lack of effort or not playing the game right
Hit me up on Google+
He also had a "down" year (about average production) last year
And bounced back to do pretty much exactly what you’d expect.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
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