Decisions for Next Year...
by tonyy on Jul 2, 2011 1:52 PM EDT
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Alright, I first want to start off by asking, what does our rotation look like next year?
I think its a given we must give Wainwright an extension when the time comes because the guy is a straight out stud and with his surgery healing, and given the success rate these days, there is little doubt he doesn't return to his old self if not better. I think we need to give him a 5 year deal, have him be in a cardinals uniform the rest of his career.
As for Carp, I would not pick up his option but resign him for 2 more years at about 8-9 million a year. We have Westbrook and Jaime coming back...Loshe will be in his last year and we should not resign him and we should resign K-Mac given his young age and potential to be a solid 4th starter. My main question is, do you think Carp would be open to that kind of deal rather then picking up his really expensive team option?
Also, when we can realistically expect Shelby Miller to crack the rotation? I know he's doing very well in the minors but how long will it take for him to be called up and start making an impact?
Next, trade rumors...I heard something that the Mets asked for Colby in return for Jose....I would do it in a heartbeat...move Theriot to second and move Jon Jay to center. Jay is probably equal defensively and the bat that he and Jose bring over Colby is not comparable. Only question is, how do we resign Jose and try and obviously resign Albert? Albert needs to be priority no questions asked and he will be. Also, what will it take to get a guy like Mike Adams or Heath Bell? Im also curious to know is it possible to trade Colby and maybe a minor leaguer for Matt Kemp? I heard he could be available given the dodgers current state and he is only 2 years older than Colby and having an absolute rediculous year. When he would be due to be a free agent, Berkman would probably be gone at that point and we would be able to afford to give him 12-15 mil a year. Would like to hear your thoughts on that.
Finally, I keep hearing that there is some sort of news conference coming up, and I read an article today that someone posted here on VEB that Albert could almost be ready before the all-star break. That would be amazing news and the main thing I'm most concerened for him aside for his health is that he has a chance to continue his streak of .300 30 and 100. His Hr and Avg are definitely obtainable and if he can left his rbi's a little I would love for him to have that streak going to 11 years as it is something that I don't think will ever be accomplished in the next 50 years or so. The fact that you can produce those numbers in your rookie year and continue to do it for the next decade is unfathomable. I just hope he can continue to do so. I think he'll get atleast one more MVP before his time is done and that will really put him in the top 5 greats considering he should've had 5 mvps if it wasn't for juice head Barry.
Anyways, hope everyone has a great holiday and heres to hoping Albert comes back healthy, produces and signs a contract this offseason to keep him in a Cardinal uniform for his career. Also, I wouldn't mind a Reyes or Kemp in there as well but I promise I won't get greedy.
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you cant get rid of rasmus for reyes
because there is no way in hell we resign him and pujols, NONE, unless they raise payroll, and even then those deals restrict them from doing anything to fill the rest of the roster for the next 5-7 years. colby is still very young, developing, and cost controlled. colby is capable of putting up matt kemps numbers, just give him a little more time to develop
It would be nice to have Carp for 2 and 18-20M or so...
but it depends on if he can get more. Maybe the deal will work out for the Cardinals with his struggles to start and the lack of run support for him.
As for Shelby, I heard no earlier than Sep 2012. 2013 is more likely.
I’ve also heard questions about getting Kemp or Ethier for pennys on the dollar (they’re FA after next year, Dodgers probably can’t make long term commitments) If it’s available I say go for it, but I think it would cost too much to get them
Mine is an evil laugh!
So you think shelby can be in the rotation next year?
by tonyy on Jul 4, 2011 2:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, I don't think he cracks the big league team in ST
Mine is an evil laugh!
by Notorious PSC on Jul 7, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
2013?
Are you nuts? He’s dominating AA hitters right now. Why in the hell would we wait two more years to get him to the big league club, all the while risking an injury with every start he throws against inferior talent?
I predict Shelby Miller will get every chance to win a spot in the rotation next spring, and might even be up for a cup of coffee when rosters expand in September, to throw sporadically out of the bullpen or pick up a start or two if Garcia or McClellan need to miss a turn.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Sorry?
He asked when I thought Shelby would be in the majors, I told him that I had heard no earlier than late 2012. Even with all his dominance, I think TLR and Mozeliak would prefer to leave him in AA or AAA at the beginning of next year
Mine is an evil laugh!
by Notorious PSC on Jul 7, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And I think that's an extremely pessimistic opinion
He’s currently putting up this line at AA Springfield, which I don’t have to remind you is a hitter’s park in a hitters league:
4-1, 1.89 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 4.5 K/BB, 9.0 K/9
He’s dominating that level like we have seen since, well, I don’t want to bring up that person’s name for fear of jinxing this whole thing before it really gets started.
He will finish this year at Springfield most likely, but he’ll be given every chance in the world to make the club in Spring Training, and even if he doesn’t he’ll be up no later than early June unless he has a major injury setback. Keep in mind, our farm development and scouting have been very aggressive with promotions since Luhnow took over as scouting director and Mozeliak took the reins as GM. There’s no reason to believe that they’d keep Miller down there if he’s dominating the competition as he has so far.
There is really little sense at all in keeping him down in AAA putting up gaudy numbers if he’s dominating. One, what is he learning? Two, why put milage on a top arm that isn’t doing anything for your organization.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I wasn't saying that.
He asked when I thought he would be up. I have heard several times not before late 2012. That’s why I answered that, before you began to personally attack me.
Mine is an evil laugh!
by Notorious PSC on Jul 7, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I never personally attacked you
I thought your argument was poorly thought out. So I pointed that out.
Regardless, timetables get updated all the time due to performance, and even more so since Mo has taken over in the front office. These guys get promoted aggressively based on how they perform at the minor league level. I think it’s safe to say that Miller has performed spectacularly at every level so far, and that would seem to update his timetable from late 2012 to June 2012 or even possibly making the opening day rotation for next year. If the rules on service time are corrected, as is being currently discussed as part of the CBA, it might make more sense for the club to bring him up at the beginning of the year rather than waiting until June to start his service time.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
yeah, I think June/July next year
though it sort of depends on whether we pick up another SP next year or try to re-work something with Carp. If not, I think it would be folly to let Miller start the year in StL – I’m guessing they give it long enough to secure the extra year pre-free-agency, at least, as we’re probably looking at Waino, Lohse, Westy, Garcia, Lynn and KMac as options.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 9, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Current CBA negotiations might remove this loophole...
If not, I think it would be folly to let Miller start the year in StL – I’m guessing they give it long enough to secure the extra year pre-free-agency,
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Cliff notes:
TRADE RASMUS AND SIGN EVERYBODY IN BASEBALL FOR ELEVNTY BILLION DOLLARS.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 4, 2011 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
only if it means we can DFA rasmus
Mine is an evil laugh!
by Notorious PSC on Jul 7, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
as much as a jose reyes for colby rasmus trade is enticing
(where did you hear this one?)… I must remind you that Rasmus is cost controlled. while he is slumping now offensively (I know he can and will do better than a .340 weighted on base average), he’s still worth a lot as a centerfielder. even with the subpar offensive numbers, he is still likely around a 4 WAR player at the end of the season. that is a very good deal. how much is reyes? several order of magnitude more, which of course creates difficulties in budgeting.
but the other good thing is that reyes would surely move theriot from shortstop. that would be cool… but still I find the idea of rasmus for reyes to be a little absurd. can you provide more detail on how much reyes makes and stuff like that? btw, the dodgers are almost certainly considering matt kemp as a franchise player, I doubt they’d trade him; why would they?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2011 6:18 PM EDT reply actions
What I read was that LA might have a fire sale
because of their financial situation and they expect Kemp to demand a big salary as expected and don’t think they can afford him. I agree we are very limited with the money we can spend on the big named players since we have Albert’s contract looming next year, but I just wanted to get a feel if there is any truth to these rumors.
Rasmus for Reyes is a non-starter.
Just ain’t happening. You can’t trade cost-controlled starting talent for 2 month rentals of players you can’t likely afford to sign. I’d love to have Jose Reyes, but I’d also like to win games next year and the year after: Rasmus helps with that, Reyes doesn’t.
Chris Carpenter: If you buy him out, you’re still already paying him $3M next year ($1M buyout, $2M deferred compensation). So at $9M he’s a $12M payroll hit. You’re also talking about extending a guy with a significant history of arm injuries (who will also have throw back-to-back 220+ inning seasons — the last time he did that he didn’t pitch much at all the next two seasons) for another season over what he’s already promised, at which point he will be 38 years old. I like Chris Carpenter as well, but with Wainwright back (and due a big raise), Garcia, Lohse, Westbrook, K-Mac, Lynn, and possibly Shelby Miller competing for spots in 2012, and Wainwright, Garcia, Westbrook, K-Mac, Lynn, Miller, and Martinez competing for spots in 2013 — well, I just don’t know if it makes a lot of sense to extend a 36 year old guy with arm problems two more seasons. If he wants to come back on a one year deal or a two year deal with a $1M buyout of the second year, even better. He will get bought out, I’m sure of that. The question is whether he moves on like Matt Morris did.
Adam Wainwright: His option years have already vested, so he is locked up through 2013. Why would we want to immediately offer him an extension before he throws a pitch again? Sure, Tommy John surgery guys nearly always come back….well, the ones you hear about anyway. There are guys in the minor leagues that never make it back after having Tommy John. Every year. It’s not “just another day at the outpatient clinic”, it’s a serious injury. Why not wait and see what happens next year and the year after before offering him an extension on what he’s already got from the club?
You get some crazy ideas about trading Rasmus, so let me ask you this: If you hate Colby so much, what makes you think that other teams would trade better players to get him? Second question: Why in the hell would we trade a guy who is young and productive and doesn’t make much money at all for guys who are older, productive, but are due to make a SHITLOAD of money right when we’re about to offer our 30 year old HOF first baseman a contract that will pay him $30M a season? Do I need to mention that just two years ago Matt Kemp was hitting 8th for the Dodgers and Dodger fans were saying the same things about him that Cardinal fans are now saying about Rasmus? PATIENCE. Not every prospect starts his career like Albert Pujols or J.D. Drew — virtually none of them do. He’s shown signs of being a 5-6 WAR player — that’s a guy you lock up long term (like the Reds did with Jay Bruce), not a guy you deal for similar or better but vastly more expensive pieces.
I would like to see us make a trade for J.J. Hardy, who we should have traded for last offseason. We could probably sign him for something in the neighborhood of what Berkman is making in the offseason, and I don’t think that we would have to give up any needed pieces or any of our top 5 prospects to acquire him. The bullpen could also use an upgrade: We could package Mike Gonzalez in with Hardy, or we could make a separate deal for someone in Oakland’s pen by giving up a C prospect.
Other than that, I’m happy with where are club is at this moment. We’re in first place despite losing our best starter before the season and our best lineup has been on the field all of 2 weeks so far due to injuries.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
well...
First off, for Carp, I think his last three performances proved he still has a lot left in his tank. I mean there were guys like Pettite pitching way past 36 years old and Carp is actually throwing harder now then he has during most of his career. You forget he was out for a couple of years and that almost saved his body the wear and tear of pitching 200 plus innings. I would be more than happy to have him back at a discounted price, I don’t think you can ever have too many good starting pitchers.
For Wainwright, I didn’t realize we had that much already invested so yes i agree to wait until its necessary.
But, as far as Rasmus is concerned, I think we all can agree how lucky we got getting rid of J.D. Drew when we did and especially considering what we got in return. I don’t hate Colby at all, infact I was the one predicting he’d have a breakout year. I just think players like Kemp and Reyes don’t come by very often but you are right in that sense that patience can work out and players can develop. This is also my way of thinking we have some security incase we can’t/don’t sign Albert.
I think Berk should be brought back for atleast another year or 2 but I don’t know how much that would cost…and with the possibility of Carp in there as well and Yadi’s and Wainwright’s salaries going up along with Albert, where does all this money come from? I don’t really know of many players that we can get rid of…
So of course it will be very tough to improve any positions as well as just maintain our current roster. But i’ll be the first to say I do think our roster would be fine if Albert was playing like Albert while Holliday and Freese were healthy…ultimately I was just trying to see if anyone else had some info on any rumors that were floating out there. I wish I could remember what site I read abotu Kemp but I know i read the Reyes rumor here on VEB.
How lucky we got getting rid of JD Drew when we did?
Are you serious? He put up EIGHT WAR the very next season in Atlanta and played the most games of his career!!! Then we would have lost him, recouped a first round draft pick from the Dodgers, and been able to draft a starting pitcher who was similar to Wainwright in the first round with the Dodgers pick. Why in the world was trading JD Drew “lucky”? He was a very good baseball player who had a lot of injury problems.
I think you have the “if our CF isn’t Jimmy Edmonds then I don’t want him” disease — if he’s not laying out for catches in the gap and diving to steal singles then you don’t want him on your team. In a similar vein, it’s why you like Jon Jay more than Rasmus, even though Rasmus has still been worth more this season than Jay has. Jay dives and looks like he’s giving maximum effort all the time and slaps the ball around the ballpark. Colby is a smooth runner who gets to a lot of balls on the fly, walks a lot, and strikes out a lot. So, therefore, he’s not as “full of hustle” as Jay. You let your eyes deceive you. How much did you like Jon Jay when he was hitting .200 for 6 weeks last August/September after we dealt Ludwick to give him more playing time? If Jon Jay was so good, why did the Cardinals take an $8M risk on Lance Berkman instead of giving him the job full time?
I don’t see why the Dodgers would trade Kemp for Rasmus unless they were getting back a prospect or two in return, and I don’t know for the life of me why the Cardinals would give up prospects and a 3.5 WAR CF to acquire a 5 WAR CF. Makes no sense. You would hate Matt Kemp as much as you hate Colby Rasmus if you had to watch him play every day. He looks like he’s half asleep all the time, he misplays some balls in CF, and he doesn’t dive or go throwing himself into walls to make catches either. Not to mention that he can hit .600/.750/.900 for a week and then hit .170/.210/.300 for a week. He’s up and down, just like Colby is, he’s just due to make a lot more money and is a few years older. So why against would we trade for him?
As for the Reyes rumors, if you heard a rumor on VEB that wasn’t sourced by a link, then that’s what it is, a rumor. We all have fantasies about making a trade for Reyes, but most of those fantasies involve giving up a shitload of talent for a player that we probably won’t be able to sign in the offseason, or we do and we let Pujols walk. Unless you’re the Yankees or Red Sox, you can’t have $10M+ players at every position. You need cost-controlled, team-controlled talent to offset the monster contracts and build a baseball club.
If you think our roster is fine, why do you insist on trading portions of it to add to it? There are plenty of smaller upgrades that could be made, as I noted above, that wouldn’t cost a great deal of farm talent and would make an impact. Reyes and Kemp are pipedreams, and they probabaly aren’t even the sort of pipedreams that you’d want if you watched them play on an everyday basis and took a look at the long term implications of making those trades.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
If im not mistaken wasnt wainwright our compensation for j.d drew? You think the odds are in our favorite to draft a player like him in the first rd given our drafting history? Not to mention he is a two tine cy young winner and won us the world series. Yes we sold drew at his peak. I do think we have a good lineup but we always need to upgrade as players get older. Jay is developing a lot better than most expected and just bc we rushed him into the lineup has nothing to do with how he is playing now and he hes developing. Werent you just saying we need patience with our players? The was his first real yr in the majors and i think he did pretty well and is now batting around 300 which just for arguments sake is better than colby.
But you missed my point, it was abt jay vs colby, it was reyes n jay vs colby. Reyes is a talent that comes once in a decade, and i know we cant afford him but i also think of it as something to go after shud we not get albert back. All im saying is i woukd explore any deal involving him bc hes that good. If it meant no 37 yr old carp and no colby for him, yea i wud do that, elite shortstops and leadoff batters arent exactly dime a dozen
by tonyy on Jul 5, 2011 3:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We got lucky waino turned out to be an ace
Not that we traded drew when we did
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/3/2011)
68 2/3 IP, 83 K, 31 BB/HBP, 26 ER, 3 HR, 2.70 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 5, 2011 6:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Waino was a first rd pick who clearly had the tools and the opportunity to learn from darryl kile and obviously dave duncan, but we knew we had a chance to get an ace
by tonyy on Jul 5, 2011 7:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Did you know that he also missed the second half of the season before we traded for him?
And it looked like he was going to need Tommy John at that time? And that the Braves weren’t sure if he would be able to recover? And that our own manager and pitching coach didn’t think he was good enough in 2006 to give him a spot in a rotation that could have used him?
You can’t revise history to suit your narrative of what happened. You seem to think that we traded JD Drew for Adam Wainwright, when what we traded JD Drew for was Jason Marquis and Ray King AND a talented but iffy top prospect named Adam Wainwright. Marquis went on to have 3 up and down years in St. Louis but solidified a rotation in 2004 that missed only 6 starts, after we had 7 guys make 10 or more starts the previous season. Then we dealt for Larry Walker to fill the right field hole near the deadline.
We are extremely lucky that Wainwright turned out to be an ace level starter. It’s not “lucky” that we traded Drew before his best full season in the big leagues, and I don’t know where on the green earth you get that idea.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
wat
we acquired wainwright in 2003 and kile died in 2002.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
by Hootie Who on Jul 6, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Revising history again are we?
Wainwright’s had a hammer curve since he was a junior in high school
Scouting report from ESPN circa 2003
Just admit you’ve made a memory mistake — it happens.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Also,
if I’m not mistaken, Wainwright has a rather unique curveball grip.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Your assumption is incorrect
That’s what we’re trying to point out.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
But it isn't Reyes & Jay vs. Colby either
It’s Reyes & Jay vs. Colby & Theriot (Honestly, we’re talking about maybe a 0.5 to 1 win upgrade here over the 2 months we would have Reyes) while also subtracting the future production of the prospects that we’re giving up. Now, I’m not a huge fan of prospect evaluation because it’s a really inexact science and requires far more extrapolation than I’m comfortable with — but — I think it’s fair to say that we won’t be getting Reyes for anything less than Colby and another top prospect, and that he would leave at season’s end.
Reyes is a talent that comes once in a decade, and i know we cant afford him but i also think of it as something to go after shud we not get albert back
So why should we trade our best CF who is cost controlled for him when we can pursue him after the season? It’s like we can’t go after him UNLESS we trade for him — he’s a free agent, and we can go after him if we really want to after the season.
If it meant no 37 yr old carp and no colby for him, yea i wud do that, elite shortstops and leadoff batters arent exactly dime a dozen
Well, then that’s the difference between us. I would rather keep Colby, let Carp go, and spend that money on Albert and JJ Hardy so that I have enough left over to sign Berkman, extend Garcia, Rasmus, and bring Yadi back.
Oh, and elite shortstops also have a tendency to begin their decline around age 30. Just keep that in mind.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
and so
mediocre shortstops begin to figure things out when they turn 30?
Officer Olson: What'd this guy look like, anyway?
Mr. Mohra: Oh, he was a little guy... Kinda funny lookin'.
Officer Olson: Uh-huh. In what way?
Mr. Mohra: Oh, just in a general kinda way.
by threadkiller on Jul 8, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
I don’t know where I ever said anything about that. But if you’re referring to my preference for Hardy…
Hardy is solid defensively and provides decent value with the bat. He will also be considerably cheaper than Jose Reyes in terms of trade and to sign as a free agent. Not to mention, he probably won’t require a 5-7 year deal as Reyes would, and doesn’t have nearly as sordid and injury history as Reyes does either.
He’s a much safer bet to be worth his contract over the course of it than Jose Reyes will be.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'd also say that Reyes' career year is making people over-rate him a touch
he’s probably a 4-5 WAR player, and is at his peak, but a “once in a decade talent” is maybe a bit rich.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 9, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to see a Hardy/Gonzo package....
…would like to see what they would ask for.
Griebenschmaltz!
Westbrook isn't signed in 2013.
He’s got a mutual option that I’d estimate has about a 1% chance of being picked up.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 9, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
could not agree more with fourstick
even if colby never pans out, and just maintains his current level of production, hes still has incredible value. Unless you get an A prospect in return at a position of need, you cant trade a 24 year old CF for a rental.
A hardy/gonzo package would be ideal, but im willing to bet the cardinals would rather have a barlett/bell package unfortunately….
honestly i hope they stand pat. let the current roster get healthy and try and sort out bullpen roles as we go
I think we have to make a move for a reliever,
specifically: Someone who can get left handed hitters out. If you look at the lineups for the possible contenders that we could face in the playoffs (Phillies, Braves, Giants) or the stretch run in the division (Reds, Brewers) they all have good left handed hitters in their lineups and most of those hitters are susceptible to a good left handed specialist.
They are also tough to find, and consequently are expensive to trade for. But I think that we’ll need someone like that if we plan to contend this year
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't understand why people are so high on Bartlett?
He’s 30 yrs old and batting .240? Is he that great defensively?
?
I didn’t say anything about Bartlett. I said we needed a left handed reliever.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
the person above you mentioned bartlett...saying we rather have a bell/bartlett package...
i agre with the bell but i’ve heard bartlett’s name a few times here and I dont understand why
Because taking Bartlett's contract back
makes Bell cheaper in terms of what we’d have to send to the Padres. Oh, and we like to acquire middle infielders that have one huge outlier season but have stunk pretty much the whole rest of their career (Theriot, Felipe Lopez).
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
what is bartlett's contract?
and i totally agree with Felipe, but given Theriot plate production so far he hasn’t been that bad…good with RISP and close to .300 BA…i think we all wish his defense was better but could you imagine if we had Brendan Ryan again and he was batting .240…
Batting with RISP isn't predictive at all
If that meant anything, Daniel Descalso is the first half MVP.
Bartlett is owed $5M next season. That’s a lot for a guy who really sucks on a club that probably isn’t going anywhere in the first place.
Brendan Ryan has been worth more than Theriot this year, and I’d wager that our pitching staff would rather have Ryan and Punto up the middle than Theriot and Skip.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Ill be the last person to defend skip and wish we traded him but theriots bat i think really sparks this lineup and is underestimated. Having a .300 leadoff hitter compared to a .240 makes a world a difference. Clearly no1 wanted to trade for skip or else he wud be gone but ive read that hes very well respected in the club house. Ryan maybe is more comfy hitting in seattle, idk but i do know theriot this yr vs ryan last yr, id take theriot anyday.
by tonyy on Jul 6, 2011 7:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So our improved offense
is due to Ryan Theriot leading off, and not the significant upgrades of Berkman, Craig, Jay, and Descalso over the pu-pu platter of crappy veterans that we had in those positions last year, and Molina having a better year at the plate? I think it’s more likely the latter than the former. Theriot’s bat has been decent, but his defense has been awful, and a club built like ours (lots of ground ball throwers on the pitching staff) needs good defense up the middle.
I don’t much care whether my leadoff hitter hits .300. I DO care whether he OBP’s at a .350 mark or not. Theriot’s walk rate is around 6.5%, meaning that if he’s not hitting .300 (something that is very difficult to do on a consistent basis in MLB) than he won’t OBP at .350.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i get what your saying...
but having that leadoff guy on more times than the average team helps a lot, especially when albert was struggling. Yes Berkman has obviously been killing it and Jay and Craig have done well to fill in for Holliday, but Theriot, with all his errors, has also made some good defensive plays as well and come up with some clutch hits…we went with the defensive approach last year and clearly TLR realized that he rather substitute that and have more pop at the plate or else he would have never brought in Berk and Theriot…I think its about having a good balance, but a consistent leadoff guy isn’t something we’ve had in a few years since skip hit .300 (somehow)…
Well sure,
but then why don’t we just bat Matt Holliday in the leadoff spot then? He’s our best on-base guy. And I’d be shocked if Ryan Theriot’s .338 OBP is among the top half of leadoff hitters in the league this year.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
you can than make that argument that every teams best hitter should bat leadoff...
hypothetically speaking…you put holliday first…then there is no1 to drive him in which is obvi why our best hitters bat 3rd and 4th…also he doesnt run the bases well (not that theriot is ricky henderson but you get the point)…all im saying is I appreciate having Theriot considering our leadoff situation last year…i get that Ryan is a great defensive shortstop…but clearly we werent able to move skip and had to choose between one of them to go so the way it turned out, im glad we got a .300 hitter in return
you know I'm a big Hardy fan.
He shouldn’t be leading off, though. I think Freese is a better candidate.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 9, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I know
I was just making the point that you shouldn’t pick up a player because he sprays line drives and has some speed JUST so he can hit lead off. Anyone can hit in the lead off spot as long as they have an above average on-base percentage.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't know if I can bear to watch Theriot butchering rouine plays for the next three months, unfortunately
regardless of how sparky his bat has been. He’s an embarassment in the field.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 9, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not that good
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
So you'd take Theriot last year
over Brendan Ryan who missed all of spring training due to wrist surgery?
Way to go out on a limb. It’s pretty sad that you would considering even with a bum wrist Ryan was a better player last year than Theriot and this year it’s not close. Ryan is a much better player.
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 11, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I get a lot of flack for being a Theriot-hater
But I constantly feel like the Theriot-defenders are the ones that go to extreme lengths to make their argument.
He’s not a good baseball player, especially as a SS. I think he could have value at 2B as he is a better defender there. Does he have some offensive value? Yes. But so does Jack Cust and I wouldn’t want him on my team either.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'd like a LOOGY (as you said) and a starter, I think.
and for tlr to stop playing skip every damn day.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 9, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
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