Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Indy 500: 'Greatest Spectacle In Racing' Set For Sunday

You Win Some, You Lose Some

I find myself stuck on Friday night's game. The first game back from the break. The Cardinals have a fully rested bullpen and a capable Jake Westbrook on the mound. The game ends disastrously with a antagonist particularly malicious for Cardinals fans in Brandon Phillips. This game certainly heightens the cries for pitching help be it in the rotation or the bullpen. Should it though?

Star-divide

Presumably the assumption is that adding a pitcher to the rotation allows the Cardinals to bump Kyle McClellan to the pen.  Assuming the Cardinals manage to add a good starting pitcher, there are some potential benefits there. Obviously a good starter will be inherently better than McClellan who has done an admirable job despite a terrible strikeout rate. We've certainly seen the Cardinals employ worse in the rotation before. The other, more ancillary benefit, might be in a better pitcher's ability to go deeper into games.

Pitcher IP/Start
Kyle McClellan 6.0
Jaime Garcia 6.0
Chris Carpenter 6.2
Kyle Lohse 6.2
Jake Westbrook 5.1

 

Kyle McClellan hasn't been bad at all about going deep into games.  Really none of the pitchers except Westbrook have had that problem this year.  Compared to 2010, the Cardinals are getting similar starts in terms of innings out of their rotation. Set aside that this isn't really a problem, and assume that a new pitcher is able to average about an inning more a start than McClellan. With McClellan in the bullpen, this gives Tony LaRussa an additional arm that he has great trust in and McClellan is likely a candidate to get some saves.

Should that be important? Fernando Salas has racked up 16 saves on the season after settling into the role. He has a 9+ K/9IP strikeout rate and is walking 2.22 batters per 9IP. Kyle McClellan has never done that as a reliever. More statistically telling, the ZiPS projections have Salas as a better pitcher than McClellan moving forward even accounting for a change in role. Kyle McClellan is not the key to what ails the bullpen.

What if the Cardinals acquire a closer at the deadline instead? It bumps someone like PJ Walters back to Memphis and given that Eduardo Sanchez is looking like a less reliable candidate to return this year (should we bet on labrum or rotator cuff?), there's room for another right handed reliever in the pen. Step back for a moment though. The pen is currently comprised of  Mitchell Boggs (2.93 FIP), Jason Motte (2.54 FIP), Lance Lynn (1.63 FIP) and Fernando Salas (2.98 FIP). Looking at their projections rather than their single season FIPs doesn't change the impression that this is a talented and stable bullpen.  Is the difference in the Cardinals 2011 fortunes the difference between having 5 good relievers rather than 4?

Let's go back to Friday night's game. Jake Westbrook is pulled after the 5th inning on just 82 pitches. He'd struck out 5, walked no one and given up two unfortunate solo shots to Chris Heisey. The Cardinals were down 2-0 heading into the 6th. That's not a big gap.  Westbrook was first up in the 6th inning and the Cardinals have fresh bullpen so it's not an unreasonable move to take Westbrook out. I have a hard time second guessing LaRussa on that decision.

LaRussa calls on, arguably, his worst reliever in the bullpen to pitch the 6th inning. Valdes allows two hits before LaRussa calls in PJ Walters to finish off the inning. Valdes had thrown 8 pitches. Walters manages to get out of the inning despite throwing just 5 of 13 pitches for strikes.  The Cardinals would take the lead in the 7th inning.

Again, with three innings left for the bullpen, LaRussa calls on another short reliever in Mitchell Boggs who has one of his atypical but not unseen nights where he struggles badly with his command. Boggs gives up the lead with the help of Trevor Miller who fails to retire Joey Votto. The pitch to Votto by Miller (which is hit for a ground rule double) was a fat, ugly pitch from Trevor but of all the left handed hitters Miller is going to struggle with, Votto, one of the best hitters in the game, is probably near the top of that list. Jason Motte is called in to clean up the mess left by Miller and Boggs. Motte pitches out of the inning without allowing Votto to score.  The Cardinals again manage to take the lead in the 8th inning on Albert Pujols HR, which scores Colby Rasmus.

Presumably the Cardinals now have two innings left to pitch and LaRussa feels the need to double switch. I find this move to be inexplicable if admittedly not a negative one. He trades David Freese (who has long been heralded by the club for his defense) for Daniel Descalso and Jason Motte for Lance Lynn. That looks like a neutral move to me. If you want to fault LaRussa's management at any point during the night, I'd fault him for being short sighted in the 8th inning and making a move that is utterly meaningless. Lance Lynn pitches a perfect 8th striking out 1. The Cardinals do not score in the bottom of the 9th.

Fernando Salas strikes out the first batter. Zach Cozart singles to center. Joey Votto lines out to Lance Berkman. BOOM. Brandon Phillips hits a home run. Fernando Salas did not pitch poorly; indeed, he retired the Reds best hitter. He allowed an incredibly ill-timed homerun.

I'm not sure what buttons LaRussa could have pushed differently. I'm never a fan of the parade of 1000 relievers but, outside of the 6th inning that didn't affect the outcome of the game, he was using his best relievers through the crucial innings. Mitchell Boggs failed to perform. Trevor Miller got beat by the Reds best hitter. Fernando Salas failed to perform. You can fault LaRussa for not playing in a fashion that preserves his bullpen for the next few games but I don't see anything that is indictable for the loss.

Where does that leave us? Perhaps it leaves us in need of the reminder that sometimes, despite having the best players in the right spot to position the team to win . . . the team loses. The team will lose games despite having their best pitcher on the mound and a lead. The team will lose despite retaking the lead in late innings and scoring 5 runs. The team will simply, inexplicably lose some games.

It's been suggested by some of the less cogent media members that the game's management is an SOS. Really? An SOS for what? Mind you, those same persons, in the same breath then vigorously defend the manager's decisions while insulting their readers.  If LaRussa didn't make a management mistake, what kind of "message" was he trying to send? The bullpen cannot, and will not, get appreciably better through a midseason acquisition. Outside of left handed relief, the Cardinals do not lack for viable options in the pen. And truthfully, if this is the manager sending out an SOS, more than anything else that would be a sign of the front office's dysfunction that centers around that manager.

Ultimately, Friday night's game was not a cry for help. It was not a sign that the Cardinals need to acquire another player. It doesn't fit any larger narrative. In crucial spots, the team simply failed. They suffered bad results. Those happen in baseball. As the non-sabermetric types are so fond of crowing, "That's why we play the game." Sometimes you win, and sometimes, despite your best planning, you lose.

On Friday night, the Cardinals lost.

Comment 115 comments  |  3 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

why not replace McClellan with Lynn in the rotation?

Frankly, I like the idea of Lynn getting six innings every five days more than McClellan getting those six innings. One is a reliever-turned-starter, the other a starter very recently turned reliever who is pitching really well. I think Lynn would make for a stronger rotation thereby putting less stress on the pen.

by salvomania on Jul 17, 2011 6:34 AM EDT reply actions  

Lynn has been lights-out in relief

If he would go after hitters as a starter like he does as a reliever, I would agree. Heck, he might even overtake Fernando as the closer if he keeps throwing a 96 mph high fastball and striking out half of the hitters he faces.

by RedAllOver on Jul 17, 2011 7:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Why didn't we put Wainwright in the rotation in '06?

Mainly because he was our only reliable middle innings reliever that season.

Lynn has been great in the pen, McClellan has been an average 4th starter in the rotation. Why would you want to swap roles? It’s not like McClellan was ever a Grade A stud reliever — he was merely a slightly-above-average right handed reliever that handled left handed hitters well. We have two of those in the pen right now: Salas and Lynn.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 17, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think a swap might make some sense

if KMac seems to wear down due to his load. He’s already thrown 20 more IP than any other year and there’s a lot of baseball yet to play. I think he has more to go before they would consider that. He’s been cromulentish.

"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby

by The Continental on Jul 17, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

the problem is westbrook

kmac is ok for a five, but westie’s is not even a 5 at this point

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Jul 17, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

because they are projected to be the same pitcher

Lynn in the rotation isn’t as good as lynn in the pen
McClellan in the rotation isn’t as good as McClellan in the pen.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Jul 17, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

The thing with McClellan as a starter

While he might make it through 6, he runs out of gas after 4…

At least going by ESPN’s stats, which seem a little incomplete, he gets hammered after 45 pitches…it just doesn’t seem like his tank isn’t big enough to be a starter.

As to the relievers constantly blowing games, well, I guess it depends on whether you think giving up runs is all a matter of luck, and they just happen to do so when the game is close, as opposed to if there is any sort of pressure involved, and they are choking…

My head tells me it’s probably just luck, but then I see someone like Chris Perez in the All-star game, I have to wonder (as most of his stats, other than saves, are worse than most of the relievers we have )

by DiscoJer on Jul 17, 2011 7:14 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't think he runs out of gas

I think that once the lineup has seen him once they’ve got him figured out. This makes a lot of sense if you think about it:

  • He doesn’t have an overpowering fastball
  • His fastball doesn’t move a lot.
  • His secondary offerings are all average or below average for a starting pitcher

Once you’ve seen K-Mac in one at-bat, you’ve seen everything he has. Why? Because he can’t get hitters out consistently while keeping something in his back pocket for the next time through the order.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 17, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Young Hoss Lynn

would be my choice.

What would it take work-wise to get him ready for 75+ pitches again?

by YearOfGlad on Jul 17, 2011 8:30 AM EDT reply actions  

If we are going to upgrade at pitcher

I think we go after the best player we can get for the right price. If the player is a starter, then we shuffle things around. If the player is a reliever, then we don’t have to shuffle as much. I just think that you go after the top player you can get for the price you want to give.

by stlfan on Jul 17, 2011 8:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Nicely put, Azru.

Enter my contest! Win great prizes! Here

by a fink on Jul 17, 2011 8:58 AM EDT reply actions  

he wouldn't understand it

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Of the Houston pitchers

Give me Wandy.

I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

by TBender on Jul 17, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

he doesn't get very expensive until after lohse and westbrook are gone

and if miller, martinez and jenkins all pan out, he’s a nice trade chip

Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
Twitter | Google+

by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT - Bravo Orioles!

Signing JJ Hardy to this contract.

That’s a perfect price and length — they get him for 2 years, at which time hopefully Manny Machado is ready, and they can either keep him or deal him in the third year since he will make only ~$7M.

To think, this could have been us.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 17, 2011 9:37 AM EDT reply actions  

oh, why don't you give me a paper cut and pour lemon juice on it while you're at it?

"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11

by tom s. on Jul 17, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

LH relief or a starter

Please Mo

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/15/11)
81 2/3 IP, 94 K, 37 BB/HBP, 33 ER, 5 HR, 3.05 FIP

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 17, 2011 10:19 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I'd bet rotator cuff for Sanchez.

The onset seems so sudden. But labrum wouldn’t surprise me either.

http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz

by hazel on Jul 17, 2011 10:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Yes

Great post. I think you hit the nail on the head. The bullpen is not nearly as bad as recent talk and fan agitation made it out to be. Salas’ work has been first rate, so why would you mortgage the future for a guy like Heath Bell? As for another bullpen addition, sure, there are guys available out there that would be an upgrade, especially from the left side, but don’t be hasty. This bullpen is a lot better than some we’ve seen in the past.
 As for a starter, an established 4th or 5th starter, if he came at a reasonable price, would spell McClellan, which, as Azruavatar points out, has the effect of simultaneously upgrading the bullpen – a two for one as it were.
 The Cardinals could use improvement, but it’s not like we’re in the East, where 95 wins gets you second place. 90 could win the thing going away in the Central. There is no compelling reason to strip away the team’s future, or trade Rasmus or Jay (for all the sturm und drang, I like that flexibility in the outfield).

by deweydell on Jul 17, 2011 10:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Why would it be a good idea to trade for an "established" 4th or 5th starter?

That won’t be a significant upgrade on KMac, who is performing now as a 4th/5th starter. It certainly won’t help us in the playoffs, if we were to get there.

Might as well go big or go home. I’m fine with going home (i.e. doing nothing) but giving up a prospect for a 4th/5th starter would seem to be the worst of all worlds.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 17, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm starting to feel this way, myself.

If we upgrade anything, it needs to be either a good LOOGY or a defensive SS and those seem to be as rare as hen’s teeth.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

agree

if we trade for a starter we should trade for a top of the line guy who can give us 7-8 innings Moving McClellan to the 8th spot (where sanchez should be, but isn’t) You’ll then have motte there to put out the fires. Boggs and Lynn for 6-7 inning works.

Miller goes home until he can get lefties out.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Jul 17, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

I agree. That’s why I said “reasonable price.” Reasonable to me does not mean central prospects. If that would be the price, stand pat.

by deweydell on Jul 17, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

when we need a shortstop

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Jul 17, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree as well

They don’t have a guy in their rotation that’s getting racked pretty much every start and who is an “automatic loss” that could be improved upon by an “established 4th starter”. If they can bring in a legitimate #2/3 guy without giving up anything of value, fine. Else, look for cheaper bullpen and middle infield upgrades.

by olddomination on Jul 17, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

yep

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Jul 17, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

See, this is what makes VEB great

A commenter can use the term “sturm und drang” in a clever way, and can reasonably expect the readers to know what it means.

The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain

by mattybobo on Jul 17, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

While talking about baseball relief pitching.

The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain

by mattybobo on Jul 17, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

And while you're at it, Mo

how about getting a SS who can field his position,

by gocards62 on Jul 17, 2011 10:59 AM EDT reply actions  

You mean Descalso?

Hahahah. I’m not counting Punto since his arm still appears to be problematic.

by sdrone on Jul 17, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Punto is seeing a doctor tomorrow

and the team will make a decision on whether to DL him based on that examination, according to the Fox Sports Midwest Twitter feed.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 17, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Breaking Bad premiers today

GET EXCITED.

I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
Twitter | Google+

by purple_haze on Jul 17, 2011 11:29 AM EDT reply actions  

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_1929ee5f-82f6-592a-b22a-6a0bda759025.html

“I’ve said it five, six, seven, eight times now: No,” general manager John Mozeliak said last week about trading Rasmus. “How many times do I have to say it?”

among other straussianisms

Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
Twitter | Google+

by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2011 11:33 AM EDT reply actions  

the meat of it is in that quote

the rest of it is him using no other quotes to imply that mo’ is trying to trade colby

Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
Twitter | Google+

by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ladies and Gentleman

That is how an asshat writes a news story.

I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

by TBender on Jul 17, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Typical Straussian logic

Mozeliak: “Seriously, I really really really am not gonna trade Rasmus. Like, for real.”
Conclusion: Given the above quote, COULD A RASMUS TRADE COME ANY TIME NOW?!?!?!

The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain

by mattybobo on Jul 17, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

National Enquirer?

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 17, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

crawl in a hole and die?

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sources with knowledge of the situation

suggest that Strauss has a gambling habit that is taking his focus away from his primary job. Strauss was caught flatfooted Fri afternoon when teammate Bernie Miklasz’s initial reaction to Tony Rasmus comment that “Joe Strauss is one of the finest beat writers out there” was a deep guttaral laugh. Some within the P-D team have quietly suggested, off the record, that this reaction from Miklasz gives outside observers a peek at what very well may be an unresolvable divide with the organization.

by Merry CRasmus on Jul 17, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

ever seen DG's tweets to Strauss?

they’re usually filled with snarky goodness

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

you need to use the blockquote tag to make it look real

we proved this a while ago

"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz

by tehzachatak on Jul 17, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the blockquote must be used for good, never for evil

The changes that blockquotes imprint on reality could have catastrophic effects on the fabric of space-time.

The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain

by mattybobo on Jul 17, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

WHISPERING

unsafe.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 17, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Intrigue#

JoeStrauss I’m sitting down for a little NL hold ‘em. Leave me alone unless you’re calling about a trade going down.
about 1 hour ago

by Merry CRasmus on Jul 18, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jimminy friggin Christmas

That’s truly pathetic work there. Repeat the same crap everyone has heard 1000x about Rasmus, stick in a quote from the GM which makes it clear that Mo isn’t interested in trading the guy, and then speculate away. Not a single revelatory sentence in that horribly written drivel.

"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 17, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

we need to send Mo a unicorn.

he sounds like he could use one.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 17, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

he should have just said

“That’s a stupid question, Joe” and walked away.

"I wonder if I put on a uniform and told La Russa I wanted to play for him if I could be a big leaguer too?"
"that all depends. are you gritty?" "You would need a mediocre decade of MLB experience first" "do you have a goatee, are you short, and do you try really hard?" "Are you willing to play four positions terribly?"

by cschepers on Jul 17, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Theriot – SS
Rasmus – CF
Pujols – 1B
Holliday – LF
Berkman – RF
Freese – 3B
Cruz – C
Garcia – P
Schumaker – 2B

https://twitter.com/#!/FSMidwest/status/92617787863863296

Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
Twitter | Google+

by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2011 11:36 AM EDT reply actions  

theriot, cruz, and schumaker

be sure to strike everyone out Jaime.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Jul 17, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reds lineup, per mothership.

1. Stubbs, CF
2. Cozart, SS
3. Votto, 1B
4. Phillips, 2B
5. Gomes, LF
6. Bruce, RF
7. Cairo, 3B
8. Hanigan, C
9. Bailey, P

I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

by TBender on Jul 17, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

>Gomes

YES!

"Hunter Pence out at home, catcher Gerald Laird. Three out." STL @ HOU, 4/28/11
All the cool kids have these:
Twitter | Google+

by hr on Jul 17, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

What would improve the team the most (IMO) are

1. A top tier starter that pushes KMac to the bullpen and pushes one of the crappy LOOGYs out the door

2. A SS that’s actually good

Given that we don’t want to give up good prospects and that expensive veterans on a rental basis will cost the least in prospect treasure (see KRod), who are the best and most expensive rental starters and SSs who might be available?

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 17, 2011 12:06 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think you'll see many moves until the deadline itself.

Looking at the standings, a lot of teams are still very much in it. Even the Twins, for example, are only 6.0 GB. Two of the clubs that are absolutely out of contention are the Cubs and Astros. I don’t know how they would value their pitchers when trading within the division (or, if that concept even actually exists in the minds of GMs).

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 17, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

WANDYMANIA!
SI_JonHeyman
Jon Heyman
word is, incoming #astros owner wants payroll cut to $60M, wandy, myers being shopped. heariing theyll keep pence tho

I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

by TBender on Jul 17, 2011 12:11 PM EDT reply actions  

YES. BUY BUY BUY

I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
Twitter | Google+

by purple_haze on Jul 17, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

DO IT MO

"Hunter Pence out at home, catcher Gerald Laird. Three out." STL @ HOU, 4/28/11
All the cool kids have these:
Twitter | Google+

by hr on Jul 17, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wandy's contract...

2011 – 7mil
2012 – 10mil
2013 – 13mil
2014 – 13mil team option

I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

by TBender on Jul 17, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Done!

I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
Twitter | Google+

by purple_haze on Jul 17, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

but what will it take?

just cash or will we get by with cash and some C-prospects?

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wallace!

…wait.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 17, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

hell and no.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

and will they go in-division?

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

No and no

Why would the Astros take just cash and/or c level prospects for Wandy? It’s not a fire sale, and even if it were, they still wouldn’t give up Wandy for so little.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 17, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

but we have enough firepower to do it without Miller/Martinez, I think

something like Lynn + Taveras + cash might do it.

I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
Twitter | Google+

by purple_haze on Jul 17, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't do that...

We’d be getting him for his age 33 and 34 seasons, and if he pitches well he’ll lock up his age 35 season too. It would have to be prospects from the tier below Taveras/Lynn/Cox. Maybe Swagerty/Chambers.

Sign Carlos Silva!!!

by guayzimi on Jul 17, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

We're not getting legitimately good

LH starting pitching for a poo poo platter of prospects like that. Swagerty and even chambers could be the second and third pieces but you’d still need a top 100 type to headline the deal. The Stros would probably be interested in Cox as a headline piece as their 3b options suck.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 17, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah....

probably right. I think I’d pass on WRod – between the age, the contract, the slightly reduced effectiveness, and the fact that he’s already been on the DL with an arm issue, that’s just too much.

Sign Carlos Silva!!!

by guayzimi on Jul 17, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree we could do it w/o miller/Martinez

I think we might have to throw in one more c-level to your proposal above.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 17, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

The good/bad thing is, they need everything so

there are going to be plenty of offers.

I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

by TBender on Jul 17, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

if it's not a fire-sale

it’s at least a burnt toast sale. and maybe I was low but they’re not going to expect top dollar either.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, they've really only got to drop $16mil to get to the target.

$7 of that is Oswalt, so really Crane is only looking to drop another $9mil.

He could do that pretty easy.

I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

by TBender on Jul 17, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

a-hahahahaha!!!!

60m?!? welcome to the world of carlos lee and the AA all-stars.

"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11

by tom s. on Jul 17, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

you're a good man

Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
Twitter | Google+

by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

not true but thanks

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 17, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

odds on somebody pulling a Brandy Chastain if they win?

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Odds on them being better looking than Chastain?

The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun

by mob16151 on Jul 17, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll admit that I haven't paid much attention this year

to be able to answer that fully.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

apparently the soccer is so huge in Seattle

yeah, that seems to be the broadcaster yelling goaaaaal when the Mariners scored.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 17, 2011 12:20 PM EDT reply actions  

There is the whole Seattle Sounders thing

And their crazy attendance numbers.

The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain

by mattybobo on Jul 17, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Zing!

The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain

by mattybobo on Jul 17, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I should have said

that one time the Mariners scored

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 17, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Busterrrrr says someone is mulling Ubaldo on the block.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 17, 2011 12:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Ubaldo Jimenez fastball speeds by season:

2007: 96.7 MPH
2008: 95.4 MPH
2009: 96.0 MPH
2010: 95.8 MPH
2011: 93.9 MPH

Shouldn’t this be concerning for teams looking to acquire him?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 17, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes it should

If it weren’t for that, I’d be very interested, but that loss of velocity is alarming.

by Merry CRasmus on Jul 17, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

if someone's stealing your signs, why do you flash such huge signs

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 17, 2011 12:36 PM EDT reply actions  

always?

i blame you

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 17, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure some people have been over to fangraphs and noticed that

Melky Cabrera has somehow put up an exhorbitant 3 WAR this season while our own Lance Berkman has put up 2.9 WAR. To the numbers:

Cabrera: .293/.331/.450 good for a .347 wOBA, wRC of 117, UZR of -0.5
Berkman: .286/.400/.591 good for a .414 wOBA, wRC of 167, UZR of -8.3

Cabrera has about the same amount of time in CF and RF, so does WAR take into account wrt positional adjustment the place where they were playing when the player accrued the offensive statistics or what?

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

Articles I Wrote about Beisbol. | Twitta | Googer+

by flipthebird15 on Jul 17, 2011 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

not if i understand your question correctly

WAR is offensive runs above average, plus defensive runs above average, plus positional adjustment, plus replacement level. so if he somehow has way better offensive number as a CF, than as a corner OF, it’s no different than if his wOBA is exactly .347 wherever he plays

Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
Twitter | Google+

by prophetjohn on Jul 17, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh you're right

I was looking at that wrong. I saw the 799 and interpreted that as RF. Whoops.

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

Articles I Wrote about Beisbol. | Twitta | Googer+

by flipthebird15 on Jul 17, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey that's only ~17 innings a game.

The Royals must play a lot of extra innings.

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

Articles I Wrote about Beisbol. | Twitta | Googer+

by flipthebird15 on Jul 17, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buster just mulled trade chips for BJ Upton?

and this “Colby Rasmus” word crossed his lips

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 17, 2011 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

He must read Strauss' BS.......er.....work.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT: A mick just won the British Open.

Up the Irish!

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 17, 2011 1:06 PM EDT reply actions  

JAIME day gamethread

"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby

by The Continental on Jul 17, 2011 1:07 PM EDT reply actions  

totally cringed at the thought

of McClellan as closer. terrifying! he’d be nice to have in the bullpen though. doesn’t he have some loogy qualities despite not really being one?

FIRE TONY RASMUS

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 17, 2011 1:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.
Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Jack_benny__1__small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bendermad_small azruavatar

Trigun_001_small the red baron

Images_small tom s.

Authors

1989_bgh_cropped_small bgh

Valverde_medium_small vivaelpujols