St. Louis Cardinals All-Star Game Moments: Making Yadier Molina
by DanUpBaby on Jul 12, 2011 9:01 AM EDT
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When Yadier Molina was coming up through the Cardinals' system the team didn't have top prospects so much as interesting prospects. Chris Duncan was Dave Duncan's son! Yadier Molina was Bengie's brother! Stubby Clapp had a funny name! Molina had his defensive reputation from the moment he hit the farm system; in 2002 he hit what amounted to the prospect map by putting together a .284/.331/.384 season in the Midwest League as a 19-year-old. He didn't strike out, he didn't walk, he didn't hit for power, he hit around .280. I don't think anybody realized at the time how close a look at his Major League skill-set we had gotten; I don't think anybody realized how valuable it would be.
The problem is that we already had Mike Matheny. Matheny was the kind of player I worried Molina would become—exceedingly popular, valuable in some nebulous way, clearly awful at the plate. When I went to games at Busch Stadium during the Matheny era it was like there was some kind of Orient-Express conspiracy going on around me in which everyone agreed to pretend he was one of the most valuable players on the team, in addition to being a stand-up guy with a great arm.
By the end of the Matheny era, and the beginning of my tenure as an Angry Young Blogger, I wasn't prepared for another several years of that. So it wasn't promising when he spent his first three seasons in the Major Leagues doing two different Mike Matheny impressions.
It didn't hurt that Molina had a better arm than Matheny, but it didn't much help, either, when he finished 2006 hitting .216/.274/.321. Molina was a strange terrible hitter; his isolated power was all right for a catcher, and he never struck out, but when he put a ball in play he hit just .226—and he was so slow, and so prone to weak ground balls, that that felt about right.
Of course, it wasn't—give him some of those singles back and you're looking at what we know now to be a representative Yadier Molina season. But his minor league numbers had all been good for reasons other than their own merits; he was young for his league, he was a catcher. It was hard to realize that he would end up performing the same routine in the Majors, but in 2007 he began a remunerative routine of hitting extremely well for a catcher.
Since that home run in the 2006 NLCS Molina's hit .284/.345/.377; he's just about maximized the value a player can generate from being exactly average as a hitter, and he's made his way into three All-Star Games. Not a bad outcome for a prospect-by-default.
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there's no more molinas
and miles is now a star in la
we’re doomed
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 66
there are always more Molinas...
just as Y2S
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
viva
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
speaking of 5 Guys...
what is it that they serve at their restaurants?
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 12, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
we already have extra-large Miles down in Memphis
he’s the career HR king down there!
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Willing to go huge or small, Mozeliak’s trade leverage might for the first time include the team’s gifted but enigmatic center fielder Colby Rasmus.
by prophetjohn on Jul 12, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
might might might might might might
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
I love the speculation here.
It might also include Skip Schumaker or David Freese or Jon Jay or Daniel Descalso, too. This piece is journalistic garbage, on par with what we have come to expect from Strauss’s midnight postings—even including type-o’s.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah, it's essentially an opinion piece.
but my god, the pageviews it will get. and strauss will be patted on the back for it.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
As always
This is relevant to our interests: http://aeryssports.com/aaron-miles-fastball/thats-just-not-good-enough-for-joe-strauss/
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 12, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
His weekly chats, "Joe Strauss Live!" on the P-D web site each Wednesday allow fans to ask a writer supposedly in the know, yet the answers fans receive are often bullying, impatient belches from his self-imposed throne atop his self-proclaimed insider’s world.
Delightful!
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
I've read it three times now...
and not seen anything resembling an actual quote regarding Rasmus.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
TBender might be illiterate, say sources close to the situation.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Guilty.
I don’t read so good.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
You should enroll at
Zoolander’s school.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 12, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And want to learn how to do other things good too.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
by ClemsonGirl on Jul 12, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
They mention the Rays.
I do NOT want to trade Rasmus but what do you think we would get from the Rays if we did?
Those would be pitchers we should target.
Young, cost-controlled armf or a young, cost-controlled pitcher. I think we would need more, though, from a value standpoint.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Nah that would be Shelby Miller
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 12, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
It's actually pretty close
Moore has better numbers at AA and is a better pitcher at this point, but he’s two years older at the same level.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Yeah but if you add in my red-colored glasses,
Shelby CREAMS THEM ALL.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 12, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
but he's left handed
and hits triple digits. Give me Moore. No offense Shelby
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Well yeah, I love me some Matt Moore
But there’s value in the fact that Shelby is 2 years younger at the same level, and putting up just slightly less impressive numbers.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
age doesn't matter for a lefty
in 2046, they’ll still be watching Matt Moore, the soft tossing ageless wonder ala Jamie Moyer
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I would rather have Moore than Hellickson
and I love Hellickson. But Moore? That guy is unbelievable. Refined lefty with upper nineties fastball.
There was a discussion about this at FR
and I opined that I thought Niemann + Jennings would be an excellent haul for Rasmus + prospect/Lynn/Boggs/Motte/whatever, to the extent that I think the Rays would go nowhere near pulling the trigger on that, but some folks seemed to think even that haul was a bad one for Colby.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
would you trade Shelby Miller
for Colby Rasmus’ Mexican non-union equivalent?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
we could get four by doing that
not just one
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd trade Rasmus for Moore.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't trust that Dierkes
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
I really like Shields
and he’s got two relatively cheap options after this year ($7m in 2012, $9m in 2013, $12m in 2014, each with buyouts in the $1m range).
I think I would make that trade, actually. I’m guessing Rasmus makes ~$3m next year, ~$5-6m the year after and ~$8-9m in his last year of arby, FWIW.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd trade Rasmus for Shields in a heartbeat.
This club is seriously lacking in grit, a trade for Aaron Miles is indeed needed.
I <3 Miles
Would you trade Miller or Martinez for Shields?
I think I’mma say yes on CMart, no on Miller.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be my stance.
Martinez’s build causes to me to wonder how he’ll hold up physically. Having said that, his stuff is like something from a video game.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
a la sanchez
worry about same fate
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
also
if you move a guy like Martinez who has best-pitcher-in-baseball upside, I’d be happier if it’s to the ALE, where we might see him once every 5 years or something.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
brett wallace sez hi.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
Brett Wallace has been worth 1.25 2011 fWAR Theriot Units (fTU) so far
in 479 MLB P’s. With a .358 BABIP. While playing first base for a division rival.
FWIW, that might have been one of Mo’s better moves.
"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11
oh no doubt. just saying that, via a circuitous route, wallace ended up back in the division.
the point was that dealing a fellow to the AL did not guarantee we would not see him back in the division.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
No on Miller
but mainly because I think he could be part of my starting rotation next year. Yes on Martinez. Shields is signed to a tremendous contract. He’s young, he’s an incredible pitcher in the toughest league and he has no injury history. If the club has any doubts about Miller they should be willing to move him for a Shields type player, imo.
This club is seriously lacking in grit, a trade for Aaron Miles is indeed needed.
I <3 Miles
Yep if you moved Martinez
how bout this for next year Waino Shields Garcia Miller. Then again you might be trading away the next Pedro.
Lohse and Westbrook are also under contract next year
Miller would stay in AAA to start the season.
Grit != flat out sucking.
an injury is pretty likely
and having Miller tearing up trees in AAA will be a fantastic insurance policy, hopefully!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I find Martinez more tradeable than Shelby too
I think his ceiling is higher than Millers, but everything I’ve seen and heard about Miller suggests he’s got a VERY high likelihood of being a high-end pitcher. Martinez has a low-ish likelihood of being the best pitcher in baseball. As I think I said in another thread, I’d take a 75% chance of having Matt Cain over a 25% chance of having Pedro Martinez.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Both, and throw Cox in there
All for Sam Fuld, our OF defense needs help. His UZR is, after all, infinity
"I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson
by cardinalswsbound on Jul 12, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
what is it with strauss always beating the "trading ramus" tambourine?
it’s obvs he doesn’t like the guy. and believe me, if he actually had solid information that colby was on the block, it would’ve come much higher in the piece. it’s speculation, and he knows it, which is why it’s buried at the bottom.
.277 .355 .497 .852
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 12, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
well, see, he felt rejected after the whispering fell through.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
stauss is just a schmuck that gets paid
to inundate the world with stupid ideas. He goes above and beyond the call of duty IMO.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
It's the old guard within the organization.
They feed him this stuff.
This club is seriously lacking in grit, a trade for Aaron Miles is indeed needed.
I <3 Miles
i've always got the impression he does like colby a lot
but colby stuff is ripe for pot stirring and that is strauss’ specialty
Why is Strauss SOOOOOO desperate for Rasmus to be dealt?
It’s almost obsessive. I don’t think we’ve heard a single thing from any trustworthy source in or around the team that he’s on the table.
FWIW, I’d be open to trading him, but the idea that Jon Jay having a decent 500 PAs or so with an unsustainable BABIP has suddenly made Rasmus expendable is extremely stupid.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Tellingly,
there is not even an anonymous source cited in the article. The header:
Trading Rasmus?
Strauss doesn’t cite a source:
Mozeliak turned down inquiries on Rasmus late last season and during the winter when teams seized upon reports of the player’s repeated trade requests and his differences with La Russa.
Now, with Rasmus on the cusp of arbitration and showing only halting development, the organization might reconsider its stance.
The writer has inserted his own voice of speculation into the article. Without any citation, we can only assume that there is no source for this speculation.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 12, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My only question is whether the piece makes it obvious up front that it's an opinion piece
If it does, I have no problem with Strauss speculating out the wazoo about trading Rasmus. Nobody has to read it. If he passes it off as news (or if StlToday tries to, or whatever) then I do have a problem with it.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
yep
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It might be considered "News Analysis,"
or something. I agree with you, though, that it is not well-labeled.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I hate the term "news analysis"
It’s just a clever way to write an opinion piece, but somehow put the word “news” right in front of it.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
I know what you mean,
but at least it’s labeled as such to clue the reader in.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
At least it is something, I agree
I just wish they used better labels. I would love it if there was a news service out there that literally had gigantic headers. “NEWS” and “OPINION” in big bold letters at the top. And then the corresponding pieces below the appropriate header. I don’t like how opinion bleeds into news reporting so much.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Neither do I,
but it seems to me that only a handful of newspapers properly label their content these days.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
"halting development" my ass
Where is that graph from rui again? I call bull.
Besides, maybe Shelby Miller is infecting my brain, but isn’t our system heavily tilted toward pitching prospects? Wouldn’t trading Rasmus for a starter look pretty silly in a few years (TINSTAAPP duly noted, but still)?
"Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." --Churchill
Let's trade Jon Jay instead!
Ed Wade still has a job, doesn’t he?
Hit me up on Google+
by jd is legend on Jul 12, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
For now.
I doubt he’s gonna be allowed to actually do anything, though.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Also, have you met my friend Mr Sabean?
Say hello, Brian…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
What does "go small" mean?
Do I want to know?
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
5'8", plays for the Dodgers.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Jul 12, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Is he standing on his tip toes.
This club is seriously lacking in grit, a trade for Aaron Miles is indeed needed.
I <3 Miles
I don't think he gets the credit he deserves...
…for becoming a moore cowplete hitter – reminds me of the Wiz, going from defensive specialty to a decent offensive force w/out giving up the glove. he doesn’t have his brother’s power but I’d say he is the best defensive Moolina out there.
Griebenschmaltz!
Yes, I'm going to wander around the office saying...
“Moooolina” today.
MMMMOOOOOOOOOLINA!!!!!
;=8)
Griebenschmaltz!
I was amused at the perfect neck-tat angle they showed Holliday's Plate appearances at
Also didn’t that futile 2006 regular season line by Molina include starting like 0 for 26 or something like that?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 12, 2011 9:33 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yadier Molina
is best Molina?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
By far, in my opinion.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
he needs more rings to get the best spot on mama molina's fridge
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 66
Well, I named my dog after him.
I don’t think there are too many dogs named Bengie!
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Jul 12, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
the late Benjamin Molina
he trained all of them.
though apparently Mom is the one who pretty much put them on the plane to the states, in some cases without their complete understanding of the situation…
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
she was tired of having to feed them
growing boys eat a ton
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
in actuality that's not true
when Yadi retooled his diet a few years back, he said the hardest part was refusing his mom’s portions.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I knew there was something abnormal about that boy.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
the tats didn't clue you in?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
when I was a young lad
I had a side job working in an automotive factory. A lot of those fellows I worked with were bikers. So ink doesn’t surprise me the way it does others.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
absolutely
and he really turned the corner offensively after that NLCS homer.
.277 .355 .497 .852
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 12, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
thanks, Albert!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I read this with a Russian accent
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
by Hootie Who on Jul 12, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I would say yes
I think Bengie may have had more pop but he has no patience at all. Jose has never been more than a bench guy. Yadi has a more well rounded game.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yadi's season has been excellent.
Last year, he hit .262/.329/.342 for a wOBA of .299. This season he is hitting .282/.332/.414 for a wOBA of .318. The increase in power is what most interests me. Molina had 6 HR in 2010 and already has 5 HR this season. Molina hit 19 doubles last season and already has 19 doubles this season. After 0 triples last season, he has 1 triples this season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
"1 triples"
Well typed.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
well that's the trouble with triples...
;=8)
Griebenschmaltz!
by The MooCow on Jul 12, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he's hitting as well as he ever has - this will be his first wRC+ season over 100, IIRC
though he might’ve been right around 100 in 2008 or so, IIRC.
The slight concern is, it seems to have also coincided with (to my eyes) by far his worst defensive season ever.
I’m hopeful that, by the time his current contract is up and he’s getting more expensive, we’ve developed an internal alternative, because I think it’s possible he’s a guy who won’t play much beyond his early 30s. I was hopeful for Cody Stanley, but he’s not really doing a great deal, so I suppose let’s hope Adam Ehrlich is up to AA or AAA in a couple of years and prevents us having to sign a potentially ugly extension with Yadi….
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder...
…if having viable backups has helped Yadi’s production? Catching sucks and St. Louis can be really mother loving hot so breaks seem essential.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
catching sucks? since when?
I loved catching. I does help to have somebody else that can catch a game or two here and there in the height of summer though.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
it*
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
nope. but i would've given my eye teeth to have done so.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Physically
Squatting all night for months on end isn’t a good thing.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
My mom seems to be doing okay
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
by mysterui on Jul 12, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 13 recs
In rec terms, this post has more projection than Carlos Martinez.
I’m predicting a record breaker….
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
now picture this post with a Jaime extension
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
yup, it's maybe a bit late in the day.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
not to nitpick, but I wouldn't say Carlos Martinez has much in terms of projection
his stuff isn’t going to be any better than it is now
That's why most catchers are masochists.
You either love it or hate it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
ode to Bobby Tolan
I hope the Rasmus saga dosen’t go the way of Tolan’s. Bobby Tolan came up to the Cards
in the mid sixties as a center fielder with all the tools to be a star. He was not as large as
Rasmus (5’ 11" 175) but had proved in the minors that he could hit for power and average
and had the defensive potential of Curt flood.
I was really impressed with what I saw in him but after a good start he slumped off and for
2 years he was hot and cold but could not get his average up to .250.
In his 3rd year at the trading deadline, he was traded to the Reds for Vada Pinson, who had been
a solid centerfielder for ten years with the Reds but was 32 years and had slumped and was not
having a good season. I guess the Cards thought Pinson would recover and had 3 or 4 more good
years in him.
Pinson never recovered his form and at the end of the season was traded to Cleveland while Tolan
immiedately picked it up with the Reds and had 3 solid seasons and would tear the Cards up every
time we faced them. Tolan suffered and rather serious injury late in the 3rd year ( I don’t remember
what it was though) and was never the same hitter after that. He was traded around and did manage a
12 or 13 year career though.
I hated the trade when it was made and have always wonder what would have happen if the Cards
had not given up on Tolan.
by ridgesee on Jul 12, 2011 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
Imagine Cardinals history
if the Rick Wise trade hadn’t happened, nor the Bobby Tolan trade.
They finished second in 1971, second in 1973 and second in 1974. How different would the team’s history be if they had won a division title or two in that decade?
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 12, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Cool history, something I did not know.
rec’d.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
What he said
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
and he's in the top 5, maybe the top 3, of easily recognizable batting stances
for those who never saw him, he out-Counsells Craig Counsell
Mike Matheny
1) obviously he was a bad hitter.
2) He was, however, one of the best defensive catchers I’v ever seen.
DanUp’s comment about Matheny’s “nebulous” value (which may have been tongue in cheeck) got me thinking a bit. The defensive value of catcher’s has never been well quantified in my opinion and would probably be the most difficult aspect of baseball to quantify in my opinion. I’ve heard there are some relatively new attempts to do so that I haven’t really had a chance to look at or evaluate for myself. But, I’ve heard those new measures put Yadi far ahead of the pack defensively – which makes me think they might be somewhat accurate. I was wondering if any of those stats have been applied to older players – in this case Matheny. The guy didn’t have the other-worldly ability of a guy like Yadi, but he had defensive talent and was the most fundamental catcher I’ve gotten to watch (at least since I knew what I was looking at). The guy was an absolute defensive machine. Just wondering if anyone is aware of those stats and their application to older players that could point me in that direction.
As a brief aside – I’d still say Yadi is a better overall defensive catcher – He has very good fundamentals, but adds to that near super human natural ability behind the plate. I’ll take that over near perfect fundamentals and good defensive talent.
I think Matheny blocked balls better than Yadi.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Yadi has some mental lapses at times too, gives up some passed balls that he shouldn't
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
without question
Blocking balls in the dirt is largely fundamentals. You need quick feet and good reaction – both of which Yadi certainly has, but he loses form too easily and will even swipe at balls in the dirt rather then blocking them on ocassion. As I’ve mentioned before, Yadi is still above average at blocking balls – I’d even say very good at it. But he’s not elite at that aspect of catching.
Matheny simply blocked virtually everything that was possible to block.
Matheny was a god at blocking balls in the dirt.
I swear I saw him slide 6 feet to the side one time to block a curveball. I’ve never seen anyone better. Yadi could be that good but I think he gets lazy from time to time.
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 12, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
My long-held view is that catcher defense actually isn't that important
throwing runners out isn’t hugely valuable (most teams model their running game to the catcher – i.e. they’ll steal a lot on a bad catcher, so they’ll be sending weaker base-stealers and they’ll in turn be getting thrown out more – I think we saw that the other year when Jason Kendall or some other catcher with a noodley arm had a huge CS% because EVERYONE was running on him), and I think most of the guys who make it to the major leagues as regulars are probably good enough at the fundamentals that the minor differences in framing, blocking and game-calling really don’t amount to much.
That said, I should end by saying that pretty much all the (limited) evidence I’ve seen regarding trying to quantify catcher value goes against this theory, so perhaps it’s time I abandon it… Still, just thought I’d throw it out there.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
the one thing Yadi does that IS really valuable is picking guys off first – I don’t think his ability to throw out basestealers means a massive amount in the context of the full season, but given that he throws out 10+ guys at 1B most years, I’d say that’s pretty big. Erasing those singles and adding an out is (I think I worked out the other year) worth something like 3-5 defensive runs per year, which is significant, and something we often forget.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Except that catchers calling the game has a direct effect on what happens on the defensive side. That’s usually part of the defensive game discussion and evaluation, and that’s an exceedingly valuable part of the game that’s impossible to measure or quantify. In the Umpire Strikes Back, Ron Luciano described exactly what the catcher does back behind the plate and how it influenced the games.
But you miss my point
are there major league catchers who are particularly better at it than other ones? I’d have thought (again, merely assuming) that the approaches of the pitcher and the defense are heavily drilled by the coaching side, that most catchers will call the same/similar pitches in any given situation with any given pitcher (once they know their particular game), and that the capabilities of the battery to work together and call the best possible game is so intrinsic to the team’s success that there simply won’t be a huge amount of variation between MLB catchers in their ability to apply those plans.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I find that I am pretty routinely able to call the pitches that are coming, for or against our guys,
because there is a pretty well established pattern of what to do when in a count. You have to know how well a pitcher can throw a ball in the zone, but if a pitcher is ahead 0-2, you can pretty much bet your ass that a fastball in the zone is not going to be the pitch coming.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
As a former catcher...
I am obviously biased – but I couldn’t disagree more.
First, a lot of catchers reach the majors because of their offense (or apparent offensive upside) and are only passable as catchers defensively. Not many people can be a passable catcher for 120+ games and not be a black hole on offense. I can’t tell you how often I’m shocked at how poor some major league catchers are at framing pitches and receiving the ball. But if they can hit a bit, don’t drop every other pitch, and have a decent arm, they can find their way onto a roster.
Second, the differences a catcher makes with framing pitches, calling a game, and giving pitchers confidence (whether to throw a pitch in the dirt, to not be overly pre-occupied with runners on first, or even just confidence in the pitches selected) are so subtle that they are almost unquantifiable and easily overlooked, but they are very real and very significant. Although this is purely anecdotal, I can tell you that after I learned to properly frame pitches (it’s amazing how rarely the skill is taught) I would routinely get 1-5 extra strike calls a game. Obviously, that is not a scientific number (and was not major league caliber umps), but that was how often it seemed to me with the same group of umpires. Even if you low ball it and say a good catcher get 1 extra strike every two games – thats something like 60-70 extra strikes a year. Or go even lower : one strike every three games and it’s still 40-45 extra strikes. That’s a lot of outs, pitches saved on your pitching staff and putting hitters in pitcher’s counts rather than hitters counts over the course of a season.
I have many other thoughts/examples regarding pitch selection and throwing out base stealers, but this is getting long, so I’ll just add that you are very correct about Yadi’s pickoffs. But not only does he add extra outs, he significantly cuts down on secondary leads because of his reputation for picking people off. That makes going 1st to 3rd and even 2nd to home alot harder (its much rarer, but Yadi has picked people off second as well). That saves runs and adds additional outs when the outfield comes up with outfield assits. Anytime over the past 5 years or so a runner is cut down trying to go 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home by a fraction of a second – there is a very good chance that out was because of Yadi’s ability to pick people off.
by fltfire on Jul 12, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
very nice
now I am curious as to how YOU vote on the (defensively) Yadi > Matheny or Matheny > Yadi question. S’ll vous plait.
I briefly mentioned in an earlier post
That’d even purely defensively I’d take Yadi. Matheny makes it closer than you’d think because he was flawless in nearly all defensive respects. Yadi, though he loses focus and makes some mistakes, only makes a few and is still much better than average even in the things he is worst at (like blocking balls in the dirt and allowing passed balls primarily). But Yadi has just another level of ability that very few catchers in history have had with his quick feet and lightening arm. I think the runs he gives away that Matheny wouldn’t have, he more than makes up for in the running game (to me that includes his pickoffs). I also think Yadi is slightly better at framing pitches and receiving the ball – but I don’t think there is a huge difference on that front.
I should qualify this response
By saying that I think Mr. Monk’s view is probably more true the closer you are to an “average” defensive catcher. By that I mean, I think the difference between a slightly below average and slightly above average defensive catcher is perhaps not as great as it is for other positions. At the extremes, however, I think there is more of an impact on the game than any other position other than the pitcher.
That would jive with one very quick and dirty study I saw that tried to quantify pitch framing ability
(which should be possible nowadays with pitchFx and a huge amount of time), which basically suggested Yadi was one of the best in the league, consistently, for the last few years and was worth an extra bunch of wins every year because of it. Pretty sure the math was all wrong in terms of the magnitude of the effect, but even if we assume Yadi’s worth 10 runs a year with his pitch framing, say 5 a year with his arm, and add that to his WAR totals on Fangraphs (which doesn’t really include catcher defense), he’s like a 5 WAR player.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
A very informative post
I think we had this exact same discussion a year or two ago! Like I said, I don’t really know a great deal (well, anything much at all, in fact) about the tools of ignorance, and my theory is exactly that – just a thought I once had. I’m not particularly wedded to it and, like I said, pretty much all the limited evidence I’ve seen/heard has been to the contrary. Interesting thing to think about though, given that catcher defense has to be one of the few things left in baseball that really hasn’t been quantified in any illuminating way.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Anderson
You should have watched Memphis play Round Rock last weekend and seen Anderson throw out …..nobody.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 12, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you suggesting he is as good of a defensive catcher as Matt Pagnozzi?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
you should chew off your fingers for typing that blasphemy.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
He's up there with the great Nick Derba.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I'm not sure hes that good
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 12, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
That kinda makes my point
Bryan Anderson isn’t a major league catcher. Guys like him (so my theory goes) get weeded out in the minors, thus making the variability of talent in the majors much less than at other positions.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on WOWY there seems to be a spread of around 15 runs per season from the best to worst catchers
http://www.tangotiger.net/catchers.html
And that gels with the numbers on baseball reference. Framing is a whole other issue, and could add a few more runs, but the biggest difference I would think is game-calling.
I understand your point about parity between catchers, but the same argument can be made with regards to short stops and we know there is a huge range in defensive value there (we know a little to well actually).
I would be inclined to think that catchers do have a pretty big impact.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 13, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
remember the last time someone tried to tackle this
and the difference between best and worst catcher due to framing ability was like 30 WAR?
good times
Colby
Why are all the comments to this article about Molina about Colby? seems odd to me.
Because
Joe Strauss.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Fuck Strauss
Here comes the tsunami of rumors
by hr on Jul 12, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hey now
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is Colby...
We’re gonna need more than one unicorn.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
hmm.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
That should be enough.
I hope.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
I would suggest a rally for colby
but we know what happened the last time we mumbled about a rally.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
boo this man
also, dude, way to bring up all the traumatic memories of the Last Unicorn.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
does anyone *read* anymore? geez. ClemsonGirl should come in and fill your ear.
but I caught the end of the cartoon when I was a kid, and it freaked me out. spoilers
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I fail to understand this
when I had the leisure to read, my range went back to 1900s. peeps miss a lot of good shit.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
oh, it's a book
okay, well I have to admit, I rarely read books, ever. I’m not making any excuses, but the internet has consumed my time and I don’t think I’m ever going to read any printed material, let alone fantasy genre books. feel free to call me pathetic.
Pathetic!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
by ClemsonGirl on Jul 12, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
The Last Unicorn is a book by Peter S. Beagle published in the late '60s
I read it in the early ’70s, when I was just getting into sci-fi and fantasy. Never saw the movie.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 12, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Why, thank you.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 12, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
only know Peter S. Beagle
from his Forward to the Ballantine edition of The Lord of The Rings. Can probably quote that little 3-Paragraph thing verbatim.
It impressed me when I was 9. Take that any way you like.
it's been forever since I saw that
wasn’t that done in the anime style?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
the 1980s had a lot of American cartoons
farming out to foreign studios, because the big H’wood studios shut down support for their in-house animation shacks. or it was Bakshi.
so that was the style of the time. in other words, I am too lazy to look it up. in related news, I hear they’ve rebooted Thundercats in what looks like Timmverse style or some kinda anime-wannabe thing.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
it was Rankin/Bass
they are most famous for their verison of the Hobbit and Return of the King.
Grit != flat out sucking.
And a boat-load of childhood defining holiday specials.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
forgot it was them.
I have both of those, actually.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
like I said
Bakshi
tho TLU wasn’t his, I think
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
The did Flight of Dragons too about the same time.
It’s a travesty that it’s never been released on DVD.
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 12, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Holy Hell
Amazon you suck. Why did this never show up in any of my searchs?
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 12, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a Warner Brothers DVD-R on demand
but I’ll take it. At least it’s on DVD sort of.
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 12, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a lot of stuff that Amazon doesn't have.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
While it was Rankin/Bass, they used a Japanese animation company...
…called Topcraft. The same company did Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, Miyazaki’s first film. That film led to the formation of Studio Ghibli, using the core group of Topcraft animators.
by Forsch31 on Jul 12, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so true
before I read your comment I was searching for a picture of that scene
Grit != flat out sucking.
the search just made me un-cross out my bucket list item
of owning some animation cels.
that would make me poor real fast.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Because people like to bring up Joe Strauss' writing so that we can have a good complaining party about it.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Joe Strauss
Cardinals extending Eduardo Sanchez’ rehab assignment after 2 erratic outings at AA. Won’t be activated during upcoming Reds series.
Considering the job Lynn is doing in the pen;
combined with the fact that Batista, Franklin, and tallet are not in the pen anymore; I’m okay with Sanchez taking all the time he needs.
Grit != flat out sucking.
speaking of tallet, is it true they found he had polycystic kidney disease?
thank goodness he got an mri after his “sneeze”
That's what has been reported.
A fortunate turn of events.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The need for Sanchez is certainly less than it was several wks ago.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
also, I have heard that they are both hotties.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
you've heard correct
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 66
Obviously, Robinson Cano needs to grow up.
He can’t even win the HR Derby without daddy pitching to him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 12, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Seriously
You don’t see Matt Holliday running to daddy for every HR derby. When will this kid grow up?
by OCCardsFan on Jul 12, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Matt Holliday is his own
‘Big Daddy’
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
except that time his brother pitched to him.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
His brother is an ass.
That’s a personal observation that has more grounding than anything Joe Strauss has ever said.
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 12, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
do elaborate
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 66
Friend of mine played at OSU with Josh
so I got to hang out with him some. He has an ego the size of Matt’s head.
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 12, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't sound like a college age athlete to me.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
There are college age athlete egos
and then there are college age athlete egos. He has, or had, one of the second ones.
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 12, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Gag
Strauss was tweeting about that earlier today/last night.
This club is seriously lacking in grit, a trade for Aaron Miles is indeed needed.
I <3 Miles
disturbing?
Does it matter whether his dad was the one who threw the pitches? He’s the one who hit the homeruns, let him have his fun..
we're doing a thread pastiche on Colby
keep up.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I have to agree with this.
It was a homerun derby. Its not like it matters.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jul 12, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
...this year
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
by Aranathor on Jul 12, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Next year the winner of the home run derby gets the choose the starting rotations of each World Series team.
However, it must be starters.
Still not a werewolf.
Indeed.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
sadly, my small-world guess was right
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Wow
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Hypothetical
Would you rather have Brandon Morrow or Ricky Romero pitching for us? I think the Blue Jays are a solid trade partner, and the AL East to NL Central transition helped out Marcum slightly
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Morrow's mechanics scare the shit outta me
I talked to Blengino when I was with the M’s about it, and he just didn’t think Morrow would be able to start long-term. Thought they’d be able to prolong his career by sticking in the pen, and that he could be an elite closer with his stuff
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Jordan Zimmermann
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Jul 12, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How about
both Zimmerman(n)s?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
as long as they throw in cash considerations
for having to print an extra ‘n’ on his jerseys
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
zimmermen?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
by IHeartBoog on Jul 12, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I believe this is correct.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Actually looking at their contracts...
I’d go with Romero. He’s locked up long term, while Morrow is not.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Romero, definitely
all else being equal.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Romero
Skinny guys who throw hard make me nervous.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I gotta get this off my chest.
I’ve been a Rasmus fan since the day he started with the organization. I thought the kid could eventually be our next Jimmy Baseball. Maybe a little less BA, but plenty of power, speed, good arm, and great plate discipline.
Now, after saying that, I went to the game Saturday night and had great tickets. Carp struggled but managed to escape major damage for most of this outing. However, he gave up a sinking liner to CF with the bases loaded. Rasmus came in to field it, and couldn’t have played it any worse. I’ve seen little league kids do a better job. He never had a chance to catch it on the fly and looked like he was running in to play it on the bounce, and the ball just flew by him. All he had to do was stay in front of the ball. That’s it. Terrible.
I hope Rasmus turns it around, mentally, but I’m falling off the bandwagon and he’s gonna have to show something to get me back on.
Oh, and to those of us who love them some Puma, he caught Rasmus before they went in the dugout, smacked him on the ass with his glove, said something to him, smiled, and walked him into the dugout. That dude is a badass in every way.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
This was the problem
I thought the kid could eventually be our next Jimmy Baseball
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I thought he'd be better than a slightly above average player in his third season.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
He's been better this year (in a down year)
than Edmonds or Lankford when they were 24. What he did last year as a 23 year old was just sick.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
He's going to put it together in two or three years for someone else
and it will be soul crushing.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
This is exactly how I feel
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
The uproar over his play...
IS the story. There’s no actual problem with his performance.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
there kind of is.
He’s the 2nd worst CFer in the league.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
It's been a crazy good year for CFers...
He’s better than what the Cubs, Braves, Giants, Marlins, Mets, and Nationals have been running out. Of the other ten teams he’s clearly worse than Kemp, McCutch, and Cargo. Bourn, Morgan, Young, Maybin, Victorino, and Stubbs have been better than him by fWAR but you’ve got babip spikes going, half season UZR numbers, and so forth. He’s providing the team with between the 8th and 10th best CF play in the league for $1 million in a historically fantastic year for NL CFers. I’d like for him to get better, but a 3 win CFer making a $1 million is not any kind of a “problem.”
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
so 1 win above average. yay.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
If every position player on the team were 1 win above average...
we’d be a 90 win team (assuming average bench, pitching, coaching, luck).
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
if you mean that particular play,
I agree with your statement. Overall, he’s had some issues but I don’t think he’s as bad as some of the metrics say he is. On the misplayed liner, he is mostly guilty of trying to do too much. There were two outs, bases loaded, I’m sure in his mind was the fact that if he plays it safe, two runs score, if he can get to the ball, inning’s over, no runs. He couldn’t quite get to it. Now, yes, he should have enough experience to tell, before the last second, that he’s not going to get to it, pull up and get a clean field of the bounce. The miss in Sunday’s game was similar. I’m thinking he may be trying to make up for his cold streak by making extra OF plays.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, and I don't know if the bench called it or what
but hit positioning was horrible for a pitcher to be at bat. He was almost to the warning track.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I wondered about that too
I only saw the highlights, but it seemed he was deep for the pitcher being up. I wonder if they are trying to protect him from balls hit over his head that he seemed to have trouble with (especially) last year.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
But it was the PITCHER.
Admitedly Hudson is a good pitcher, but still, with the bases loaded and 2 outs, is it proper to play the whole “nothing over your head” defensive positioning?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
yep
not saying it was right, just one plausible explanation. Given Carp’s results this year we should have known to have all the OF’s play in to catch the Texas Leaguers. Seems like 1/2 the hits of Carp this year have fallen in front of an outfielder.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I was at the game
and I was particularly watching the outfield positioning throughout the game. I noticed multiple times that Colby was repositioning Holliday using a lot of different hand signals. I never noticed Colby looking into the dugout to receive these signals, but I’m sure that Colby was relaying them. Almost every time he was having Holliday move in, FWIW.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Hey, I hope he puts it together for us!
But the fact that he’s good doesn’t excuse him from making stuped, boneheaded plays and having mental lapses that prevent him from being REALLY good. The talent is there to be a superstar. We all know that. Colby CAN be as good as Jim Edmonds. In different ways, maybe, but just as good nonetheless. I don’t expect Gerald Laird to be as good as Colby, because Gerald Laird doesn’t have the ability to be that good. The fact that other players in the game aren’t as good as Colby doesn’t give Colby the leeway to play down to their level. We should expect greatness from great players, and Colby can be a great player.
And as far as JEd goes, he had a late-career peak that few center fielders ever produce.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
And as far as JEd goes, he had a late-career peak thatfewno other center fielders have ever produced.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
And that historically wacky peak is what we got from Jim Edmonds from the very beginning
We didn’t have any of the growing pains with Edmonds. We got a couple years at the ends, sure. In 2006 he was worth 2 WAR despite only playing about two thirds of a season. And then 2007 he finally had an actual bad season.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Consarnit!
A couple years at the end, not ends.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
hay, if he nets us an-udder Wainwright.....
…then I say go for it and put Jay in the OF. Who’s got Atlanta’s #?
Griebenschmaltz!
amen brotha
it’s gotten to the point where I’m hearing hardcore fans posit Rasmus for Beltran.
Then I’ve gotta spend minutes cleaning up my vomit.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 12, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
it amuses me when fans who don't like Rasmus' "attitude"
suggest trading him for well-known malcontents, lollygaggers and general on-your-lawn sorta guys like Beltran and BJ Upton.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
true that
when you expect 6 WAR!!!!!! And get 3-4 WAR You feel disappointed, although unjustly so.
Equally when you expect 4 WAR!!!! and get 0 WAR, you just feel terrible.
Thats as much a comment on Greene as it is Rasmus, even if you expect him to be less than a superstar, he can still infuriate you.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Whats the average NL CF WAR going to be this year, though? 6-ish?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Rasmus for Melky!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
by mysterui on Jul 12, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
His defence has definitely been highly disappointing
I’d say he’s hit more or less as well as we’d have expected, though. Maybe not hoped, but expected. He’s still on track for a 3-4 WAR season.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
He is a 24 year old...
…who is good enough to put up a 4 war year. He’ll be fine.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
you linked it you asshole
As soon as I saw the headline, I couldn’t resist reading it. I ignored the comments after the first guy said Rasmus was some rich little kid with gold chains around his neck.
The actual article wasn’t that bad. Bryan Burwell, well I can’t believe they ask him baseball questions. His answer was moronic. Gordon was a pleasant surprise finally.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 12, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I only got through 3 comments
I stopped after this one:
I have a problem with Colby. He is now a little rich kid and wants to show his wealth by wearing his heavy gold chain outside his jersey. That thing is so heavy it slows him down and he cannot make all the plays he needs to make in the big leeague. Leave it in the locker room, I don’t need to see your wealth in the game.
isn't he making the league minimum?
and don’t several other players wear similar gold chains?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
NOOOOOO IHB DON'T DO IT
DON’T TRY TO CRITICALLY ANALYZE P-D COMMENTERS
Hit me up on Google+
by jd is legend on Jul 12, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
but but...
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I liked this one from the other day.....
Hit me up on Google+
by jd is legend on Jul 12, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You'd be surprised.
That and his black undershirt were the subject of constant letter to the editors in the post dispatch over the years.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
True Cardinals wear red undershirts.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Why the bling?
I find it hard to understand why baseball players (generally) feel the need to wear heavy gold necklaces when they play.1 Are they trying to display the fact that they make huge salaries2 and are millionaires? It really seems over the top3 and tactless. Maybe the necklaces go along with their strange facial hair4 and pajama pants they wear for the games5.
Sandy Burkel – St. Louis
1. I am willing to bet you find a lot of things in your daily life hard to understand.
2. Yep. I’m sure that’s the reason. WAY TO RUB YOUR WEALTH IN MY FACE, MIGUEL BATISTA. [BEEP]hole.
3. Great film. Easily on my top five “Arm Wrestling/Child Custody” movie list.
4. Who are you, Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer?
5. I can only imagine the contradictions Sandy felt when he/she saw Brendan Ryan, of the high socks and wearing of plants like a “ballplayer” felt when he/she saw Ryan’s STUPID GAUDY TACTLESS MILLIONAIRES NECKLACE.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
DEAR MR. PRESIDENT
THERE ARE TOO MANY STATES NOWADAYS. PLEASE ELIMINATE THREE. P.S. I AM NOT A CRACKPOT.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
by mattybobo on Jul 12, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just wait 'till Southern California splits off
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been praying for Southern Illinois to do this
maybe if California does it, Illinois will follow?
or maybe
Missouri could challenge Northern Illinois for the rights to Southern Illinois, a small battle could break out, and everything South of I-80 could be merged with Missouri, making St. Louis a bigger market, resulting in a higher payroll for the Cardinals and the Sacramento Kings moving to STL, becoming the St. Louis Humidity, and then signing the best free agents and battling the Miami Heat for the title the next few years…..?
by STLRegalia on Jul 12, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
So
Heat vs. Humidity, huh?
/rolls eyes
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The corresponding WNBA team would be called The St. Louis Glisten
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
by mattybobo on Jul 12, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't sweat I glisten!
Well you’re glistenin’ like a pig.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
There's something oddly Sapphic about that.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Oddly?
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Diddly.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that's a whole lot of diddling.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm still watching footage from your place
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it's DVR'd
though I heard someone was trying to prove you are only one person
so it might be them
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I live in Central IL
not sure why any state would want to battle for us.
get some runs
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jul 12, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
?
What the hell did soybeans ever do to you? And technically, So Illinois is everything south of I-70. The only people that say it’s south of I-80 are from Chicago.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
You must live up north somewhere
Effingham? That’s central IL!
wrong.
I’m south of that. But I give I-70 as the starting point. Where are you? Cairo? That would mean that everything is Northern Illinois.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I am from decatur and prefer the I-80 break
or you could just extend the top of missouri accross to Indiana, which would include Peoria and Bloomington/Normal
Ah hell. It's purely arbitrary anyway.
A guy that writes an humorous opinion piece for a local paper did a write up on that. His position was to join Kentucky. Peoria, B/N, etc would instantly become the largest metro areas in the state. I don’t remember the whole thing but it was a funny read.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Hoo-rah!
Effingham made the interwebs!
FWIW: I did a little growing up, in Effingham.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 12, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
ahhh. Good man.
The way that looked, you wanted saving from soybeans.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
He really really hates edamame
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
If the the state broke in two
it would be Northern and Southern. and then Central Illinois would become Northern South Illinois
There actually was a grass-roots movement
to try and make that happen. It never will though, unfortunately. I remember my mother almost blowing a gasket over the idea. I found it extremely hilarious to listen to her.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Amen brother. I'm in on that one.
Dear president, please seperate me from Chicago as far as possible.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
this
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
As someone originally from Chicago
I am somewhat surprised at the resentment, since it doesn’t really flow the other way.
That's because if you were from Chicago
then you weren’t going to have things forced down your throat by Southern Illinois.
Chicagoland= 9million people.
Rest of Illinois= ~3million.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to have that salary
even for just a year or two (hell, I’d like to have that for a MONTH or two. BTW, does anyone know, not that it matters much, if they get paid over the season, or 12 months?)
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
i think its over 12 months (to make it easier for the clubs)
well thats the way it works in footsoccer
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
depends on the contract, I believe.
I think pre-arb guys are only paid during the season.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
After I posted that question
I thought I remembered seeing that somewhere. I’m almost certain that is the case in the minors. They get paid during the season and have to bag groceries or whatever in the off-season.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you'll find the Americans call it "kickysphere", Aran.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
how come there's none of this in the thread?
I will have to link it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SBN_ikibtg
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That song is by someone from St. Louis?
Awwwww…cute. We’re such good rappers.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
see, the chains are SAINT LOUISAN
now we must be suspicious of anyone without them
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
The problem
of trading Clobby Rizlamus is who becomes the 4th outfielder who can play adequate CF? Suppose Jay gets hurt. then what?
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
Well the first problem is that Jay will likely be overexposed as a CF
Second answer is Adron Chambers
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
All kidding aside
You know what you have in Clobby and Jay. If you trade Clobby for a pitcher you are taking one question and moving it to another area of your team.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
Well put
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Overexposed?
By all accounts from the minor leagues to today, Jay is an above average CF, defensively.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I worded it poorly
As a starter, he will be overexposed
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
For example look at his stats after the Ryan Ludwick trade when he became a starter
He batted .239/.302/.307 after the trade. Overexposed is just a fancy way of saying his luck has run out because he’s getting more plate appearances.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 12, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Jay has hit .291/.344
against LHP, admittedly only in 55 at-bats.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Batting average
Small sample size
Without context of BABIP
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
And he's over 500 at-bats in the majors now.
At what point to we accept that this may be Jay’s true talent level?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
BABIP doesn't stabilize for a longggggggggggg time
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
So we may not
know his true talent level till he’s had so many at-bats that he’s past his peak?
I kid. BABIP vs. lhb – .326.
Vs. rhb – .357
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Oh boy.
We’ve had this argument like 10 times now. Basically tons of people including RASMUS have had .350 BABIP seasons of 500 plate appearances or more, but eventually over time, their BABIP will go towards their true talent ala RASMUS this year with a .291 BABIP now.
So Jay is not a true talent .350 BABIP because no one except Ichiro has sustained that over time.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 12, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
so
Rasmus’s true talent is the .246 / .329 / .413 hitter with a BABIP of .291?
Grit != flat out sucking.
you're forgetting about the creamy middles.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
regress up to .310?
It’s okay. I think Rasmus is closer to a .275 hitter and a .850 OPS guy when he is right.
Grit != flat out sucking.
This "overexposed" thing is BS.
Jay has been lucky, throughout most of his career.
Jay had a short stretch of poor luck that happened to coincide with the time he was briefly made a starter last year.
He’s basically been a full-time starter most of this year and has been above-average again.
Basically, he’s about a league-average outfielder. If we make him a full-time player, he’ll likely be a league-average player. Just because he’ll play worse than he has so far, doesn’t mean he’s been “overexposed”, it just means that the 500-odd PAs he’s taken so far have had an unsustainable .349 BABIP.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I agree on that one.
I’ve had trouble locating Jay’s minor league BABIP and LD % to know exactly what to expect going forward, because I know that they correlate pretty highly, but I would guess that he can support a higher than average BABIP, if not .349.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Yep, I think I agree
hard to predict BABIP but I’d say he’s got the skillset of a reasonably high BABIP guy. He’s maybe Skip Schumaker with a touch more speed – lots of line-drives (21% Skip, 20% Jay) lots of groundballsf (58% Skip, 51% Jay), not many popups (6% Skip, 7% Jay). Jay hits it in the air a LITTLE more than Skip, but he’s a touch faster as I said – Skip has a career BABIP of .319, so I’d think Jay will be in the .310-320 range too.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Which would drop his obp by what?
Maybe .360-.370 with more power than Skip and a good glove?
That would be a pretty damn valuable player, IMO.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Especially
if he can play CF. The trouble with Skip is that he can’t. He’s just dreadful there. Jay is below average, but passable.
Neither Jay or Skip can hit like a corner outfielder, but it’s more than good enough for a CFer…
I think Jay's fine in CF.
above average perhaps.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 13, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
.340/.350 maybe
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 13, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Innings in CF this season
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Sucks
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Sent back down to AA Springfield
after putting up okay numbers in Memphis. There was a glut of OFers in Memphis.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Are any of these
“glut” of outfielders worth a salt as trade bait?
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
All fourth OFer types like Jon Jay or Allen Craig (although I don't think they can play 2B), IMO.
There’s Andrew Brown, who has a 1.000 OPS and who is probably a DH because he can’t field. Aaron Luna has a .873 OPS, fed by a .383 OBP. He has a nice hitter’s eye. Adron Chambers has a .789 OPS and can play CF.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Could these guys fit
the profile of the add-ins that netted Matt Holliday? I mean would we miss any of these guys?
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
No
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Shane Peterson? Yes.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
We miss Shane Peterson?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
You answered the second question.
I answered the first. We are both right.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Not on my internets, asshole!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
We would not miss any of those guys
and yes they’re all moderately comparable to Shane Peterson in the sense that they are throw ins.
This club is seriously lacking in grit, a trade for Aaron Miles is indeed needed.
I <3 Miles
So obviously trading Colby
and then having one of these guys be his replacement in the OF is probably not a good idea.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
I'm not sure how trading Rasmus is ever a good idea.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Jul 12, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
pretty much
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Well if the Cardinals think that Colby is a 3 win player
but another team values him more and is willing to trade for his perceived upside, then there are circumstances that might make sense. It’s too much of a simplification to say that Rasmus should never be traded. The prospect sheen hasn’t worn off yet and you may be able to capitalize on that given that he really doesn’t seem to fit in with Tony’s ballclub.
This club is seriously lacking in grit, a trade for Aaron Miles is indeed needed.
I <3 Miles
I have enough faith in our front office that if Colby's traded, his future value won't be completely mortgaged
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
my only problem with this is
Tony’s ballclub
How much longer will it be Tony’s? And why should we keep letting him dictate our future when he could take a flyer next season?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Good. Friggin. Question.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup
I have been reminding myself of this lately. I’ve been pretty happy with Tony this year, so that makes me forget that he probably won’t be around for too many more years.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Not trying to say he shouldn't ever be traded.
Just that for the right price is going to be really hard to come by.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Still seems like we'd be "selling low."
I mean, last year or even during the offseason, when his stock was up, sure. But now, after this slump, all this drama around him, it seems like you’d be taking like 60 cents on the dollar.*
*No stats to support this estimate.
Nintendo Trade Warning
Since the Rays are apparently the team linked to trade scenarios. What about pitcher plus BJ Upton?
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
Kind of a right-handed Colby at this point
Change of scenery might be good
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
wait, someone's got a chronic injury?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Upton's shoulder
wait, that’s the other, younger (and better) Upton
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
That would be great.
Then the fans could bitch about all of Upton’s “talent” and “upside” but how he can never seem to put it together, how it never looks like he’s trying, etc.
fans will bitch anyway
because most of them don’t think beyond ’what’s fer dinner?’.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
If you think STL fans don't like Colby's attitude
They would HATE BJ Upton, his reputation for lack of hustle, inability to hit for average, etc.
Az, have you therefore moved away somewhat from your stance of a while ago?
I recall you saying you’d probably be done with the team if they traded Colby (I think it was last year?)
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno.
I hate how the team has handled the Rasmus situation in public. I hate how Colby’s father has handled the situation in public. There have been times that Colby could have handled the situation better but, for the most part, he’s been above the media fray w/r/t his status on the club.
I’ve been a die-hard Cardinals fan for over a decade but I’m as much in tune with the minors as I am with the St. Louis club (if not more so) at this point. Could I walk away from all that if they traded Colby? I don’t know. The cynic in me says maybe but I think I’d be more likely to just follow Rasmus’ career outside of the Cardinals and still follow the club.
Being a fan of a specific team is an emotional relationship. I don’t follow the Cardinals because I like stats or just because I like baseball in the general sense. I follow the Cardinals because I like the Cardinals specifically. Sometimes, between the inane roster management and the stupid, personality driven front office machinations, this club makes it difficult to LIKE them.
If I could rationalize the trade as beneficial to the Cardinals that would help, but, ultimately, I feel like the club puts themselves in these situations through PR ineptitude, infighting and La Russa being a stubborn a$$hole. I might just feel relief that it was over at this point despite the fact that this is a problem entirely of their own making, imo.
I still think Rasmus is a future All-Star and capable of stringing together a series of 5-6 WAR seasons. I just don’t think he’s capable of doing that for the Cardinals current management team.
This club is seriously lacking in grit, a trade for Aaron Miles is indeed needed.
I <3 Miles
by azruavatar on Jul 12, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I feel like we've been saying that for 5 years
Hit me up on Google+
by jd is legend on Jul 12, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
at least...
and now La Russa is 15 years younger than the oldest manager in baseball.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
TLR's got another
decade or two of managing left
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 12, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
watch out, connie mack!
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
We've got a good owner...
he tried to hire a very forward thinking GM last time around in Antonetti, I like our chances to improve.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Karmic balance
backwards manager, forward GM
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
As infuriating as LaRussa is at times,
I’d still rather have him here than take my chances with someone else outside the current Cardinal coaching circle.
Outside?
We have plenty of potential coaches within the cards family
OQUENDO!!!!
Matheny
Big Mac
Batista
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
Player-Manager Lance Berkman.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
by mattybobo on Jul 12, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
At the end of the year
we will learn that all his managerial duties have actually been carried out by Kyle Lohse in a very clever disguise, as part of Berkman’s most elaborate joke ever.
by Robth on Jul 12, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
THIS
a thousand times this, please!
Every time I hear another anecdote about Puma, I love him even more.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Pop Warner
is highly regarded, isn’t he?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Greatest Football Coach OF ALL TIME.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
I know it's a reach from AA, but he's pretty well thought of.
The 2011 season is Ron “Pop” Warner’s fifth season as skipper of the Springfield Cardinals. “Pop” was officially named Manager of the Cards on November 20, 2006, after managing the Palm Beach Cardinals (A) for two seasons and after five years as an instructor and manager in the organization.
Warner led Springfield to their first-ever playoff and Texas League Championship Series Appearance in 2007, then led Springfield to a franchise-record 76 wins in 2008 and in 2010. In 2005, he guided the Palm Beach Cardinals to the Florida State League Championship. Before joining Palm Beach in 2005, Warner was the Hitting Coach at Class-A Peoria in 2004. The previous two years (2002-2003), he was a coach at Class-A New Jersey. “Pop” made his coaching debut in 2001 at Double-A New Haven.
In 2000, Warner served as the batting practice pitcher for the Major League club.
Originally drafted by St. Louis in the 17th round in 1991 as a shortstop out of the University of Wyoming, Warner spent nine years playing in the Redbirds farm system.
In 1999, he hit .290 with 11 home runs and 33 RBI for Memphis, while playing several positions.
Warner, 39, resides in St. Charles, MO, with his wife Laura and sons, Colin and Benjamin.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I have a hard time
referring to anyone younger than me as ‘Pops’.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess it depends WHAT he's traded for.
You can make a much better argument for it, from an emotional standpoint, if you can say “well, we got James Shields” or something. If they traded him for Heath F’ing Bell I think I’d just about be done too….
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
you’re really talking about someone like Andrew Brown being the replacement and Jay, Holliday and Berkman being full time players. Chambers would be your backup CF though and I’m not a believer in his ability to be a major league player.
This club is seriously lacking in grit, a trade for Aaron Miles is indeed needed.
I <3 Miles
FWIW I can see a Craig trade being worth considering right now
he’s having a fine season and, as someone (sorry, forget who) noted on FR the other day, Luna really does have a very comparable minor league career (he’s wRC+d the same or better most of the way up, and is about a year younger than Craig for each level). I think he’s quite possibly somewhat under-rated, and is showing a nice OBP again this year. Of course, it’s fair from a scouting POV to note that he doesn’t quite have Craig’s power, and that his OBP (especially prior to this year) has been buttressed by a high HBP rate which may not carry over to the majors, but I think he’s shown a mature approach at the plate and there’s a fair chance that he’s not much worse than Craig as a 4th OF/corner substitute/Spezio-type guy.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
and he started as a 2nd baseman!!
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
I think Craig's injury will preclude a trade during the season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Are you saying getting Allen Craig back will be like trading for a 4th OF/2B without giving anything up?
It sounds like you’re saying getting Allen Craig back will be like trading for a 4th OF/2B without giving anything up.
Hit me up on Google+
by jd is legend on Jul 12, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I really am
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
He went to Springfield after D'Marcus Ingram got hurt again.
This club is seriously lacking in grit, a trade for Aaron Miles is indeed needed.
I <3 Miles
There were rumours about a poor attitude last year as well, which is worrying
and might explain to some extent why he’s stagnated and then back-tracked in the last 3 years. I guess he might eventually be a competent 4th OF but he’s probably better off in another organisation.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
MORE LIKE DJ FOOLS... YOU INTO THINKING HE'S A PROSPECT
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Jul 12, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
So a package of
DJ and Kozma isn’t going to net us Jose Reyes?
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
How big is his neck jewelry?
This is an all-too-overlooked component that the statheads ignore.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
by mattybobo on Jul 12, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Since mid-May
.190/.265/.368/.633 w/ .208 BABIP.
.20 freaking 8
A) It would suck if Colby were un-lucked off of the team.
B) It would be great if he didn’t go into a massive shame spiral when he hit a rough patch.
If his daddy can fix him, bring him in yesterday.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 11:40 AM EDT reply actions
I'm hoping his dad can, to some extent, fix his head.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
.208
he needs to direct his hits away from fielders better…
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
in the beginning of the season I remember him hitting a lot of doubles down the first base line
In the last few months I remember him hitting a lot of line drives to the first baseman. Who is playing on the line.
Grit != flat out sucking.
that and bombs that go foul
he had several of those in the last two weeks I seem to recall. (yes, I know HR don’t count in BABIP, but they do count in avg and slg)
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That may be true, but Rasmus is creating his own lack of luck.
13.5% of his fly balls don’t leave the infield. It’s no wonder his power is gone, with lazier fly balls like that. His 8.1% home run rate this year is well down from the 14.8% last year largely because his IFFB% has gone up 8.3%.
I really don't think IFFB% and HR/FB rate are correlated in anyway
I got nothing to back that up though. Well it appears you think infield flyballs are flyballs as well and I’m pretty sure that’s not how it’s calculated.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 12, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember a study about this from a while back
think it was on THT, and think the result was that they were negatively correlated (IE, more IFFB = more HR/FB), and the only reason I remember that is because I thought it was absurd. And argued about it a bunch in the comments. And I have no idea if i was right or not, but I think I was very passionate about it. Just can’t remember which side I was on.
Or maybe I dreamed it all.
Anyway, Colby had awful IFFB results in the two months of the season in which he had: (1) his best results, and (2) his worst results. Average IFFB results in the other two miserable months. (of course, his awesome april was really about 2 weeks, and it’s been all downhill from there, so he could easily have hit a bunch of IFFBs in the second half of April, and none in the first 15 days, or vice versa).
Overall this season he’s batting .717 on line drives, with a .291 BABIP, so I don’t know that you can really say he’s been unlucky. That’s just about perfectly average.
"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11
If Rasmus is making is own bad luck, why, then, would his BABIP by month be:
May: .319
June: .227
July: .160
And his LD rate by month be:
May: 15.2%
June: 20.3%
July: 20.0%
?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
QUIT HITTING IT AT THEM, COLBY
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
I think you and stlfan are both making important points
he’s hitting lots of line drives, and lots of infield popups. the former should be hits, the latter are automatic outs. they tend to negate one another on BABIP.
Still, it seems July (I’ve noticed this just from watching as well) has been incredibly bad luck for Colby. And Dan and Al’s refusal to acknowledge this has pissed me off.
I would like to see a study demonstrating a correlation between IFFB rate and HR rate.
I don’t think I’ve read one. I’m not saying there isn’t a correlation. I’m just saying I don’t know if I agree that his HR rate is down because his IFFB rate is up because his LD rate is up, too, which means he is still making good contact.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
so many popups to shallow left
If the pitch is begging to be pulled then pull it Colby!
The opposite field mantra is to be followed when the pitch dictates that it be whacked in such a manner.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 12, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
When all of the PD scribes are this quiet on Twitter for this long, that usually means something is happening, right?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
(all-star game?)
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably it
For whatever reason, I remember that during the Holliday trade stuff, I noticed that they were all quiet for an extended amount of time, so now I get anxious whenever it happens
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I think some of them get a few days off during this time.
This club is seriously lacking in grit, a trade for Aaron Miles is indeed needed.
I <3 Miles
could be either one of them
but a trade – whether colby goes or not – is needed for this club. can’t get into the playoffs with this crew.
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
trade colby.
twitter
by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 12, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not so sure about that
get in? in this division, i think we have more than a chance. beat the phillies? maybe not. but that’s a crapshoot I can’t wait to watch this october.
.280 .357 .500 .857
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 12, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Well that's just not true at all
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
This first place club can never make the playoffs.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
they'll probably be in a battle with the brewers
until the end of the year. it’s going to take some luck, IMO, if this cards team (as it stands right now) won the central.
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
trade colby.
twitter
by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 12, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
We are currently favored to win the NL Central by almost all playoff probability reports
You’re just making a WAG based on nothing
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
how about just stay healthy?
we’ve been swamped with injury’s and are still in 1st. get a grip.
.280 .357 .500 .857
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 12, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
injuries
gawddammit
.280 .357 .500 .857
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 12, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course the Cardinals can.
Just this week the club was able to fill the lineup card with the names of the anticipated starters of April. The club has lost Holliday (24 games), Freese (51 games), Pujols (14 games), Punto (53 games), and Craig. If healthy, why can’t we make the playoffs, especially with the reconfigured right-hand side of the bullpen?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
+1
This is the first look we’ve had at “this club”.
I’m actually pretty excited about this team. The pen looks great with the addition of Lynn, giving us 3 guys that can pitch multiple innings if KMack/Westbrook continue to struggle after the 5th inning. And they’re no puppykickers either. Boggs, Dickson, and Lynn can all keep a game close and give the team the ability to come back in a close game. Get Sanchez back, add in our newfound solid closer, and we’re in business.
Could we use a LOOGY? Sure, but that shouldn’t take a huge trade of young talent to acquire a lefty that can throw strikes.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I still would like to see us acquire a pitcher (starting or loogy)
but if you would ask me at any trade deadline… I would say “I still would like to see us acquire a pitcher (starting or loogy)”. It is like some tick that I can not alleviate.
Although this year, the recent struggles of our starting rotation are becoming a bit worrisome.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
my thing with the pitcher is
What do we have to give up for a pitcher that will bump McClellan to the bull pen? If we just trade for a Westbrook again, i’d rather not do that. It would have to be a #2 pitcher for me to be okay with it.*
- as with all trades I reserve to change my mind once all the pieces have been moved.
Grit != flat out sucking.
I agree, if you are not looking at a front of the rotation guy
Why even do it? And preferably one who is under control at least for one more year.
It's all relative.
What are we giving up and what are we acquiring? If we were to upgrade, I think the rotation is most obvious place (other than MIF).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i just fear that anything more than a
sidegrade in the rotation is going to cost Rasmus. And I’m not willing to move on that at this time.
Grit != flat out sucking.
That's the worry.
There’s an inherent “grass is greener” mentality. If we’re getting a pitcher that is a marginal upgrade or even a lateral move in the rotation, why make the deal? If we’re getting a pitcher who is a significant upgrade, then what will he cost?
I hope that the organization is not in a hurry to make a move. I think they have improved the club via subtraction and replacement with minor-leaguers very well. I hope they sit back and see how the new-look bullpen works and how the now-healthy lineup performs before making a move. I think they will and that’s comforting.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Hopefully, that's the plan
see how the first 10-12 days after the ASG go while we have an (almost) complete team. That also allows the buyers/sellers to be better identified.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Would you move Martinez or Miller for a high-end pitcher at this point?
say, James Shields?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I would talk Martinez or Miller for Shields
Not sure if I would make the move. Carpenter-Shields-Garcia is a hell of a rotation going into the post season.
Grit != flat out sucking.
i'm thinking more
2012: Waino-Shields-Garcia
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Why not both?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
you know what I hate about pitching prospect
They all turn out to be Ankle or A. Reyes.
Unless you trade one instead of the other. Then you trade the wrong one.
Grit != flat out sucking.
It's like those days where you think to yourself
“Gee, I haven’t received any annoying phone calls from solicitors today. I’ll bet if I sit down to eat dinner with my family they’ll call.” And then you sit down, and then they call.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Why is the universe so mean?
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
who sits down to eat dinner?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
By "Why not both?," I meant,
“why Not Carpenter-Shields-Garcia in 2011 and Waino-Sheilds-Garcia in 2012?”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Personally
i would like the FO to say; ‘thanks, but no thanks’ to Carp’s option for next year.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
2012: Wainwirght-Shields-Garcia-Carpenter-Miller
Kyle McClellan, Jake Westbrook, and Kyle Lohse mysteriously disappeared.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
KMac to bullpen
Lohse can stick around somewhere, Westy can be traded for spares for Moz’s car.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
i think its the latter
/ducks
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
yes, he has a very team friendly deal, like Longoria
relatively cheap team options for 2012 ($7m), 2013 ($9m) and 2014 ($14m).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
What about 2013 (assuming we trade CMart):
Waino, Shields, Garcia, Miller.
Towels all round.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
his option is $12M
so that leaves $3.2 for Garcia, $.4 each for Miller/Martinez.
Does the league minimum go up by then? What was the speculated salary for Garcia in that as of yet unannounced deal?
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
(still 20M for those four would be awesome)
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
yep
I thought 3.2 sounded low for Jaime. Without a contract he’s probably (hopefully, actually) way above that.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The postseason is my thought as well
I just think Carp/Garcia/Lohse with the odd start for KMac or Westy isn’t going to cut it against Halladay/Lee/Hamels, or Greinke/Marcum/Gallardo.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Carpenter/Reyes/Weaver/Suppan!
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
I remain unconvinced that the playoffs is as much of a crapshoot as people think, 2006 and 2010 notwithstanding.
I also worry that the fact we won it all with propbably the worst WS winning roster in history means that our front office thinks we can just roll into the post season with any old shitty rotation and assume we have a fair shot at it.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they may have thought that for a couple years
but turned the corner in 2009.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Kip Wells starting 30-odd games'll do that for ya.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
The '07 World Series champs reunion tour,
as organized by Walt Jocketty, was the biggest problem. Carp going down didn’t help any, either.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think we all knew going into that season
when our “plan A” was Kip Wells as the #2 in our rotation, plus Brad Thompson and Braden Looper to suddenly become starters, that it was going to be a loooong year. That we were even in vague contention after the ASB was surprising…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I left in early May to study in Europe.
I came back for Ankiel’s return and we surged to 1 GB, then fell apart. I can’t say I regret going to Europe and missing a fair chunk of that season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The NL was so bad that year
The Arizona Diamondbacks had the best record at 90-72
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
I'm still currently holding to my preseason prediction that we'll add another starting pitcher
And/or make a significant trade for it. I don’t think they’re going to move Lynn or Dickson or Ottavino to the rotation and call it good.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
are they possibly holding off on MIF
because of Craig? They seem to be willing to let Theriot muff grounders, but they were more than willing to let Craig take PAs from Skip for a while.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
My fear is
that if one of Rasmus/Jay is traded that Craig will get lots of play 2B and Skip will be our 4th OF. We need a RH OF to sub for Rasmus/Jay/Berk, not another platoon guy. Who’s he going to platoon with, Holliday?
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
this i know...
seriously my desire to acquire/stockpile pitchers is compulsive.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
We "can" do it, of course
I still think the Brewers are better. Call me a Debbie Downer. Even with the levelling-off of some players lately, we’ve had quite a lot of guys over-achieve in the first half.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
+1, I think our starting pitching is the problem
I just don’t feel good about 2.5 of our starting 5 (Mac, Westbrook, and I’m iffy on Lohse going fwd). They definitely need to make a move and I think they will. My guess is either Craig or Jay plus some other prospects will go.
youneverknow
It just seems the most obvious move to me
The effect that the rotation over achieving had on me earlier on is wearing off. I still feel like this is a rotation that will make the team seriously consider a trade for another starter.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
i don't think we need a trade
We’ve improved our bullpen by cutting dead weight. Our starting pitching is enough to get us to the playoffs. Carpenter-Garcia-Westbrook (or Lohse) are a solid 1-2-3 for the playoffs. Not anything like the last time we went when it was Wainwright-Carpenter-Pinerio. But any improvement over the Westbrook-McClellan may cost more then I’m willing to give up.
Office should be much better if we can keep Pujols, Berkman, Holliday, and Freese healthy. If Colby comes out of it we will have one of the best offenses in the league.
If we make a trade I would like it to improve our middle infield. But this doesn’t seem to be in the conversation
Grit != flat out sucking.
I'm worried about the starting pitching.
If lohse can pull it together we will be ok if not i’m not so sure.
A minor quibble.
If Colby comes out of it we will have one of the best offenses in the league.
Category (rank)
Runs (2nd, 4 behind the Reds)
Hits (1st)
BA (1st)
OBP (1st)
SLG (1st, tied with MIL & ARI)
OPS (1st)
One could say that we have the best offense in the league. And that’s with Freese, Holliday, and Pujols missing extended time. It’s incredible.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
not to mention the maching's rough start
I think the team’s in great shape.
.280 .357 .500 .857
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 12, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
But also guys like Berkman, Punto, perhaps Yadi, Theriot, Jay, Craig and Holliday
have all hit better than their talent would suggest.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
wOBA/wOBAr
Berkman: .430/.473
Punto: .342/.358
Molina: .333/.310
Theriot: .315/.324
Jay: .347/.356
Craig: .410/.346
Holliday: .423/.472
Using wOBAr (for which Statcorner still hasn’t released the guts of their methodology), only Molina and Craig have been lucky. Using park-adjusted and batted-ball adjusted wOBAr, all of the others have been unlucky. With Berkman and Holliday, that’s incredible.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, this is the difference between people getting lucky and people doing better than we would have predicted
I still would say Punto is hitting better than I would have predicted, absolutely. But at the very least, some metrics don’t think he’s been especially “lucky”.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
And there is still the legitimate question of whether they can maintain their performance levels.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Right, that too
I think that’s what Monk was getting at, which isn’t really answered by the wOBAr data, right?
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Right.
I don’t think there’s really any sort of method to measure whether a player will continue to hit really well in both results and peripherals. My exhibit “A” would be Jose Bautista.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
hmmm I should, as usual, read the rest of the thread before answering.
can ignore my post below as matty makes the point succinctly here.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes I am in mid-comment
and I decide to go ahead and check around the thread to see if anybody has already said what I want to say. Almost every time I check, someone has already said it. So then I say “aw, man…” and click “CANCEL”.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
see, I usually think "aw man" and click "POST".
I’m sure that says something deep and meaningful about our respective outlooks on life.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
And people say Americans are impulsive
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
no - REpulsive.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
and grills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fijggq5R6w
(I can’t remember if this is the NSFW one)
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I didn't say they'd been lucky
I said they hit better than their talent would suggest. Different thing.
It’s entirely possible for a bunch of guys to all randomly (and non-predictively) round into brilliant form at the same time and basically play above their heads without having BABIP luck. They might all be squaring up the ball as well as they ever have. Doesn’t mean it’s going to continue.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
can you imagine if Berkman and Holliday actually had wOBAs over .470? good god.
"not everything is about you, Rains" -Fritz
Disagree
With their offense being, potentially, awesome, and the fact that the division foes all have serious issues right now, they have a damn good shot at making it.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
YO
when this all-star extravaganza is all over, i will create a fan post with all the anecdotes and pictures, but here’s what i’ve got from last night:
it was pretty awesome seeing robinson cano, of all people mash bombs. some of the home runs hit were unbelievable – not just cano’s but fielder’s and a-gon’s, too. bautista was really disappointing. i took great satisfaction in weeks doing bad.
also: to clear up any confusion, people in arizona hate fielder for picking weeks instead of upton for the HR derby. i think they have a really good point. upton is a power hitter in his home ball park, and weeks is a freaking lead off hitter. but whatever. at one point during the first round, the fans started chanting “jus-tin up-ton”
however, people really like matt holliday for unknown reasons. i think he got the most cheers when he was announced.
finally, i was sitting in the club level, in the section right next to the owner’s suite where hank aaron and bud selig were hanging out. got some pictures of selig, but none of hammerin’ hank. hopefully they will be there tonight, too.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
fwiw, kelly johnson: 16.
not sure why the conventional wisdom coalesced around upton as the AZ choice; i guess johnson is more of a rental.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
Matt Holliday, huh?
They saw a lot of him with the Rockies, but can’t think of a reason they’d really like him
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i thought it was just me being loud, but it wasn't.
i think its because they wanted to root for the national league, but they hate fielder and weeks and kemp is a dodger. so holliday was the default choice.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
He's pretty awesome.
I’ve yet to find a Cardinals fan who genuinely dislikes Holliday. I’m assuming fans of other teams somewhat feel the same way.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 12, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
How quickly we forget first half 2010
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Well was that towards me or the Cards fans?
Cause I’m pretty sure every Cards fan has forgotten that and doesn’t hold that opinion anymore.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 12, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I love when all people say stuff
about all people, as though they’ve talked to everyone.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 12, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
"I'm pretty sure"
I guess you ignored that. Whatever. Clearly I wasn’t meaning every single Cards fan in the universe loves Matt Holliday. There’s never extremes. But really you’re just glossing over semantics here.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 12, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
so you're not pretty sure?
so what were you saying in the first place, if you weren’t saying that?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
maybe Matt is finally done counting his money?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I was stunned at that first 472 footer Cano hit
Absolute bomb.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Not on a division foe and not part of the passing up Upton fiasco
Also AZ used to be Cardinals country. It makes sense
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 12, 2011 4:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And I, of course, mean among NL guys
They want the AL to lose, but boy did the AL ever win
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 12, 2011 4:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Relevant
I managed to miss out several of last nights contestants, like an idiot.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
normally, i'd feel really pedantic pointing this stuff out
and i’m not very good with who/whom anyway, but this is the major news outlet of the st louis area and it’s the title of an article
Rasmus or Jay in center? Whom do you like?
that’s wrong, right?
No, I think it's correct
whom is the accusative case of who. In that sentence, “whom” is direct object, and thus goes in the accusative.
/flashback to high school latin
well, it sounds stupid
i thought the rule was use whom after a preposition, but even if that’s not right, this is when the right way is way more awkward than the colloquial way
Agreed.
Whom is to who as him is to he. You’d write “I like him” not “I like he,” so whom works as the direct of like there. It ‘s technically correct; it just sounds a little odd because it’s switched around to become a question.
by peach concrete on Jul 12, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It also sounds a little odd because nobody really ever says "whom"
So it sounds foreign when we hear or read it
Hit me up on Google+
by jd is legend on Jul 12, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
FYP
So it sounds foreign when wee’m hear or read it
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
where's alberich when you need him?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Sorry, even dwarves have to work sometimes
“whom” is correct but not obligatory in colloquial contexts. Does a newspaper sports story count as formal? -not, I think, in this generation.
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
I suspect the AP Stylebook drove the Post-Dispatch's usage.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Newspaper stylebook - oxymoron
like “military music” (which actually I like).
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
I can't remember the source of this anecdote, but my dad likes to give the following stylistic advice that he heard somewhere
When you can’t remember whether to use “who” or “whom”: re-write your sentence so you don’t have to worry about whether to use “who” or “whom”.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
by mattybobo on Jul 12, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I learned that from my college Latin professor.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
I figured it was probably old enough that whatever professor he heard it from, was just stealing it like everyone else
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
I think I messed up my comma usage in that sentence.
I have a way easier time with “who/whom” than with commas.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
It's wrong by the rulebooks, but it speaks just dandy
Usage before schoolmarms and newspapers started making up rules (and still mostly standard in British usage) was that a comma represents a brief pause. Stick to that and you’re safe.
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
I hate made up rules
I will continue to boldly split infinitives till kingdom come.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Aren't all rules "made-up" at some point?
I mean, for example, the designated hitter is a made-up rule.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think Marx hypothesised something similar
or wait… was that Locke or Hobbes. Damnit, which one came first?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Hobbes came earliest, didn't he?
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Oh i really can't remember
binned all my notes on the subject as well.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
and i'll be damned if i'm going to wikipedia it
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
I believe Calvin came first
after all, he named Hobbes, didn’t he?
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
well thank you for lowering the tone of this high brow discussion
VEB almost had class there for a second.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
From another LOST discussion.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Now for some real fun
I’ll point out that Machiavelli came before Calvin and Hobbes. And he’s actually a political philosopher, whereas Calvin was a theologian. And we should be getting a bitter VEB debate on whether Machiavelli is an awful person and directly responsible for everything (subjectively believed to be) bad about politics in five, four, three, two…
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
I know/recognize Marx and Calvin
to be honest, I can’t recall if I’ve ever heard of Hobbes and certainly don’t remember Locke. Or maybe I have …. economists?
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Political philosophers, for the most part (I believe)
They are best known for social contract stuff. Pretty important foundationally for classical liberalism, democratic republican forms of government, etc.
And what’s most awesome? As I was checking to make sure this was mostly correct, my mouse hand instinctively went up towards the “BaseBallSearch” button in my Google Chrome. So I was about to ask Fangraphs, StatCorner, and B-Ref what info they had about a couple 17th century British philosophers.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Uh huh. Alot of early liberal philosophy is from their work
they did alot of ‘state of nature’ stuff, very important for the development of the social contract. John Stuart Mill is in with that lot, although he came later.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Locke hit with pretty decent power to both fields
Hume had nasty breaking stuff
Hobbes basically just chucked it at the batter’s head most of the time
No Hobbes
hit that ball that exploded all those lights. Used to be able to pitch until some weird injury gave him a power bat and a noodle arm apparently.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
ah, philosophers
if they aren’t mentioned in the Philosophers Song, I likely haven’t heard of them.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I meant that to be mostly tongue-in-cheek
But a certain institution like a bunch of teachers or newspapers pushing their stylistic preferences to the point of those preferences being taken as “rules” is different from something like the DH. MLB is the only authority who can really say what the actual rules of major league baseball are. So the DH is not “made up” in the sense that I meant. The rules of major league baseball are subject only to what the MLB decides. Language is a little different.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Isn't the Associated Press in a similar situation as to newspapers?
For example, the AP Stylebook no longer uses the serial comma. I reject their newspaper totalitarianism on this blog. I will use the serial comma! But, for newspapers, it seems appropriate.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
No, many are derived from observation
“i before e except after c”, “avoid comma splices”, “don’t get involved in a land war in Asia”
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
by alberich on Jul 12, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And of course, the most important...
“Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line”
Stupid UCL's.
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 12, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
if you want to get all sociological on it, usually grammar rules were made up to fit the
fashion in which the people of the ruling class/race/region spoke. thus, grammar and spelling are simply the deliberately arbitrary promotion of the linguistic stylings of powerful people over those of people who are less powerful. the powerful of course then had the money and wherewithal to create schools for their children in which those rules were taught and to print books formalizing those rules, long before the less powerful had access to education or the printing press.
slaves in south carolina and dustmen in east london weren’t in a position to argue that the way they spoke was the “right” way to speak.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
My objection to most split infinitives
is not the splitting but the stress. Here the rhythm of your defiance really works better as “I will continue to split infinitives, boldly, til kingdom come!”
But the rewrite evasion works here, too. If ya gotta have that boldly in front of the verb, “I will continue boldly splitting infinitives til Hell freezes over.”
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
Reds after Ubaldo Jimenez?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
this would be bad
and I’d say unlikely, but the reds might just have the prospects to do it
.280 .357 .500 .857
There are a
couple of things that occured to me: Jimenez signed an extension with the Rockies in 2009, signed through 2012 with options through 2014. Also, the Rockies ALWAYS seem to have massive 2nd halfs, although they’re 5 games under .500. doesn’t mean they’re going to sell. Lastly, i don’t know much about the Reds’ Farm, is there anything behind Yonder Alonso?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
I really can't see the Rockies trading Ubaldo
they figure to be right in the hunt again next year, and he’s (along with Tulo) the face of their franchise now.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
but he's basically Mark Mulder.
He could be the guy who keeps them from competing next year…
"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11
He's injured
3 mph drop in fastball.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/9/11)
75 2/3 IP, 90 K, 34 BB/HBP, 30 ER, 5 HR, 3.02 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 12, 2011 6:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
JIM BOWDEN
by JohnMarecek
Cardinals made it very clear to me that there is no truth to rumors that they are considering moving Colby Rasmus at the deadline “NONE”
by prophetjohn on Jul 12, 2011 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
so long, colby.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Jul 12, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
thanks for all the fish
(as in devil rays) or braves you’ll bring in return
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 12, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, I still think if Colby goes, he ends up in Atlanta
got me trying to remember about JD Drew. He had a very solid (and full) year with the Bravos in 2004. But then was traded to the Dodgers, where again he spent a significant amount of time on the DL.
Does anyone remember WHY the Braves gave up on him? Or did he go FA ?
So by solid year you mean 8.9 WAR year?
holy crap that’s a lot of WAR
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
boots my question then
why did he want to leave the Braves? Like Colby he has Georgia roots. And yes, I should have said his 2004 was a “super” year, and I am sure he was well appreciated by Braves’ fans. Was it strictly dollars?
Little more than solid
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 12, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The VEB Hive Mind's control of the front office cannot be breached by Strauss.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Have we assimilated Moz yet?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Who do you think gave him the scarf?
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Aaron Boone?
"I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson
by cardinalswsbound on Jul 12, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The scarf hides the scars from the puncture wounds.
Had to get those mind-controlling nanobots access to his spinal column somehow. We tried to do it the easy way but nooooo, Johnny Mo had to resist.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
dude, we're still breaking the skin?
I thought we could go with the patch already. Or voodoo!
damn economy.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
He struggled quite a bit, too
I think that made it worse. He seems to mild mannered but he’s got that surprising wiry strength.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
I am mo
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/9/11)
75 2/3 IP, 90 K, 34 BB/HBP, 30 ER, 5 HR, 3.02 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 12, 2011 6:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Fuck
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
All that means.....
most likely, is that they aren’t actively shopping him, nor do they feel like they “have” to move him.
Everybody has a price, and Colby is no different. If somebody offers a package that makes sense talent/money-wise, you bet your sweet ass Mo would take it.
Anybody here have any experience in writing adverts
for rental properties?
Or can anyone offer any hints on how to advertise a place?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Help me out
Can’t place the Realtor from that skit, used to love that show and it’s going to kill me to not know who that was.
"I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson
by cardinalswsbound on Jul 12, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt Besser is his name
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Kind of looks like Mark McKinney
but that was a different group.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
you probably already know this
but you absolutely must imply that there is pirate treasure hidden somewhere in the walls.*
*accompanying curses optional
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 12, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Bueno
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Honestly the only answer I have is "Good enough to be a third rounder despite a dual scholarship commitment"
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
His HS stats made it look like a super reach. But they're HS stats, so who the hell knows. Kids obvs athletic.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Hate's a pretty strong word
We drafted a bunch of speedy guys with good approaches who play premium positions. I don’t mind that draft strategy at all
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i'm not a huge fan of drafting for speed
it’s a tool that gets so often overrated by prospect evaluators. Billy Hamilton rode an inflated BABIP in short season ball to a #50 Baseball America ranking because he’s fast. Really really fast. But speed is just a secondary skill if you can’t hit. He’s still amazingly fast but still not much of a hitter.
This is a repost of mine from MinorLeagueBall a few weeks ago
One thing i remember reading a lot of draft day was that while they are speedy and athletic, they have good approaches at the plate, as well
That means you have athletic guys with good approaches that play at premium defensive positions.
1) You hope that the approach remains, and that they develop power, and they retain their defensive abilities, giving you an elite prospect
2) Their approach remains, and they develop power, but they can’t handle the position that they were drafted at. Since they were drafted at premium positions, they can move pretty easily to other ones, giving you a great prospect.
3) Their approach remains and they can handle their position, but don’t develop power. You develop a great leadoff hitter at a premium position
4) Their approach remains, they don’t develop power and they can’t handle their position. You have a fairly high OBP guy and not much else. But that can still be very valuable in an organization.
All of this assumes that they actually have good approaches, but if this was, indeed, what the Cardinals were thinking on draft day, then there are a lot of scenarios where the player can be successful
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
by mysterui on Jul 12, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I pretty much hated our draft as well
some interesting late round picks, but really the only guys I liked in the first 10 rounds were Tilson (who might not sign), Ehrlich and Martini. We flubbed on a bunch of signable, talented guys in rounds 1-4 and signed a bunch of high schoolers who we could’ve got half a dozen rounds later. And I’m someone who didn’t massively hate the Wong pick – I just think the rest of the draft was somewhat confusing. Ultimately, I think they wanted to go semi-high-upside but didn’t want to spend much money, which is a suprise, after the last few years.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I am warming up to the draft.
I can’t believe how down on the Kolten Wong pick I was. He has a good walk rate and decent power. I’m excited to see him play for the Quad Cities. I think he may be more promising than Zack Cox.
(I had that written much differently, using just last names, and I felt I had to edit it.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I just find it kinda weird we went for more high school guys and more risky guys than usual
yet there isn’t a potential star in the lot. A few too many low-floor, low-ceiling picks for my liking. I actually think (given the talent we have) a conservative draft whereby we simply took the best college player available for the first 3 or 4 rounds would’ve been ideal.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I kinda like the Wong pick
Ok, he’s not the most exciting player in the world, but he’s no Kozma (sorry Pete, your just not cut out for baseball). I look forward to loving him like i’ve always wanted to love the Schu-man.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Wong was an okay pick
there were better picks out there but it wasn’t the worst. The rest of the draft is just strange. Too many college seniors, too many low upside high schoolers.
Go Coogs!
That is all.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
I don't think it was ever in any doubt, personally
he’d have to REALLY want to play handegg if he turned down anything above slot in the 3rd round, given he was generally thought to be a late first-day guy.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 12, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm so bummed i'm not at the parade, even if its so hot out
i can hear the cheering outside…
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Possibly Nexdef'd but...
Joe Pos evaluates “Ducks on the Pond”
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
haha
Frenchy and Escobar
(I shouldn’t laugh, for the Cards it’s probably Skippy and Descalso or somesuch)
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Top 2 Mariners...
Smoak and …. Boog.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
well, as I said....
(based on Albert’s April/May and Colby’s June/July)
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 12, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
good stuff, thanks for linking
I’m surprised Pujols is there, would figure he’s so often the duck that the leader would have to be whoever gets the most at bats in the cleanup spot.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 12, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
They’re closing the upper deck at Dolphin Stadium for the remainder of the Marlins games this year.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Same place they sit now
On the beach, being busy not going to Marlins games
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
by mysterui on Jul 12, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The Marlins front office has been tricked
by the fans’ camouflage shirts.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 12, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
That is awesome
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
why does that seat have furry arms and jeans?
and what’s with the floating head? That’s not Mark DeRosa
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
It really makes those
dress like a seat nite jokes funny.
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
im pretty sure the top deck was already closed for any non-weekend game
get some runs
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jul 12, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
...and then i click the link
and it says that in one of the first paragraphs.
oops
get some runs
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Jul 12, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
well, I posted a lot of unicorns and made some comments green.
and a fanshot. I feel like I contributed or something crazy like that.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This is kind of interesting.
Matt Holliday pays his respects to Boston, a club that apparently offered him a 5-year, $85 million deal when he was a free agent.
The Red Sox were in on Holliday from the beginning and hoped that the process would drag out for him like it did for third baseman Adrian Beltre, who eventually signed a one-year, $10 million deal with the Red Sox that worked out swimmingly for both parties.
The Sox offered Holliday a five-year, $85 million contract, but he held out for more and eventually got it from the Cardinals.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i honestly can't believe he didn't ink that deal.
considering they probably offered it in november.
miller for miles!
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 12, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It's because he loves us.
And the pie.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Scotty must've had a feeling that he could get Mo to bite.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
but it's the same AAV.
matt either wanted A) more years or B) really, really wanted to play in saint louis. based on the context of the article, i’m going to say it’s more of A than B.
miller for miles!
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 12, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
FANG CALCULATE THE PRESENT DAY VALUE OF MATT HOLLIDAY'S DEAL RIGHT NOW
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Some accoutant
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
that's actually more finance.
and finance and accounting are very different.
miller for miles!
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 12, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
But Boras had to think that Mo would give up the extra two years or he would’ve told him to sign with Boston.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Or Matt is a country boy
and wanted to play anywhere other than Boston.
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 13, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
yay us!
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
My fanpost isn't generating interesting and worthwhile discussion
http://mobile.vivaelbirdos.com/2011/7/12/2270950/cardinals-trade-value-2011
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/9/11)
75 2/3 IP, 90 K, 34 BB/HBP, 30 ER, 5 HR, 3.02 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 12, 2011 6:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Weird that link went to the mobile site.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
I didn't know I could do that
I am awesome
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/9/11)
75 2/3 IP, 90 K, 34 BB/HBP, 30 ER, 5 HR, 3.02 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 12, 2011 6:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Have you ever seen the non-mobile version of this site?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Yes
Back in the days pre-aranathor I was here a lot…on my computer
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 7/9/11)
75 2/3 IP, 90 K, 34 BB/HBP, 30 ER, 5 HR, 3.02 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jul 12, 2011 7:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
woah woah
people were here before me? I find this hard to believe.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
i think you're #3 on the British UID front
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 13, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Insert reference to a certain VEB member's mother here
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 12, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
What up
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
So with the All-Star celebrations
come a bunch of highlights and stories from every team around both leagues. Yet, I see very little from St. Louis. Has our season been that mundane?
2011 WAR watch: Theriot = 0.7, Boog = 1.5 as of Jul 4
Bilingual Twitter
I've found that narrating my life in the voice of Vin Scully in my head,
I notice a lot more detail in normally mundane things
"Skipper, we're losing the crowd. Put it our new novelty act."
"Darn it! I already put in the circus clown!"
"Yeah, but he bunted. Clowns are only funny when they swing away!"
by KlausChadman on Jul 12, 2011 8:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Young pitcher!
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:11 PM EDT reply actions
I'm bummed that there aren't any ASG badges.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:13 PM EDT reply actions
What channel is the All Star Game on?
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Thanks.
I don’t know the channels down here.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
YAAAAAAAAAADDIIIIIIIIIIIIII
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:16 PM EDT reply actions
Brian Wilson creeps me out.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
A-CAB!!!!!!!!!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
I know, it makes me sad.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Will they cancel the World Series?
Or move it to a neutral site?
"Skipper, we're losing the crowd. Put it our new novelty act."
"Darn it! I already put in the circus clown!"
"Yeah, but he bunted. Clowns are only funny when they swing away!"
by KlausChadman on Jul 12, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they like baseball in Mexico.
Maybe more like Switzerland
"Skipper, we're losing the crowd. Put it our new novelty act."
"Darn it! I already put in the circus clown!"
"Yeah, but he bunted. Clowns are only funny when they swing away!"
by KlausChadman on Jul 12, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
YOU THINK WAINO ISN'T GOING TO GET US IN THE PLAYOFFS?!
2011 WAR watch: Theriot = 0.7, Boog = 1.5 as of Jul 4
Bilingual Twitter
BERK BERK BERK BERK BERK BERK
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
NEEDS MOAR BERK
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Redbird OF!
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:21 PM EDT reply actions
(we still love you Scotty)
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:22 PM EDT reply actions
WE STILL LOVE YOU SCOTTY.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
They still love you scotty.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
"Throat Condition" my ass - Joe Buck just needs to hawk that loogie or rub some dirt on it
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 12, 2011 8:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Is John Rooney on the radio broadcast?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
He was on the pre-game, so I presume so.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do we have to honor something before playing a baseball game?
Just show up at the designated time and play.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
That would be UNAMERICAN
"Skipper, we're losing the crowd. Put it our new novelty act."
"Darn it! I already put in the circus clown!"
"Yeah, but he bunted. Clowns are only funny when they swing away!"
by KlausChadman on Jul 12, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
And we can't be UNAMERICAN.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
GOD SAVE OUR GRACIOUS QUEEN
LONG LIVE OUR NOBLE QUEEN…
oh wait sorry.
AMERICA
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
by Aranathor on Jul 12, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
had to rec it
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Who are they honoring, again?
2011 WAR watch: Theriot = 0.7, Boog = 1.5 as of Jul 4
Bilingual Twitter
The survivors and victims of the Tucson shootings earlier this year.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
FY I'm serious...
baseball takes itself way too seriously. Besides we already did the honorifics – a sports league doesn’t need to weigh in with its own.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
I think it's just because of the location
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Jul 12, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
They happened 120 miles away and six months ago...
they’re just searching for something to “honor” to insulate themselves from charges of excess.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Keith Law on Colby via Twitter
Hard to prove, but I will vote “yes.” RT @cromptoj: @keithlaw is Larussa ultimately holding up Rasmus’ development?
Absolutely. RT @jhascup22: @keithlaw do you still see star potential in Rasmus?
They won in 2006.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Oh, hey, I know her.
She plays softball.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:31 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Nice.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
I'm Joe Buck, and they chose me for this broadcast,
even though I’m not in my all star form.
/he has problems with his vocal chords, for those that didn’t hear the news.
//If you’re injured, you don’t come to the ASG, including broadcasters.
you mean that he's something other than monotone?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
YOU THINK THEY'LL ACTUALLY PLAY BASEBALL TONIGHT?
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
After waiting so long,
the actual start of the game really snuck up on me
"Skipper, we're losing the crowd. Put it our new novelty act."
"Darn it! I already put in the circus clown!"
"Yeah, but he bunted. Clowns are only funny when they swing away!"
Are the umps All-Stars as well?
2011 WAR watch: Theriot = 0.7, Boog = 1.5 as of Jul 4
Bilingual Twitter
Is country Joe umperating?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
As determined by the "These Guys Suck Less" rating system.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
So, is this thread going to be quieter than the one for the HRD?
That doesn’t seem right.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:40 PM EDT reply actions
Is there a softball game afterwards?
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Damnit stop ripping scabs off that wound...
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
I came in late...
and keep looking for a link to another thread. Haven’t found it yet.
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
I think the All Star Game merits a real game thread.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
I was hoping for a GD thread...
alas.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
1 2 3
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:41 PM EDT reply actions
Roy Halladay is good at baseball
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
The Beard, introducing, editorializing.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:44 PM EDT reply actions
MORE Brian Wilson?
"Skipper, we're losing the crowd. Put it our new novelty act."
"Darn it! I already put in the circus clown!"
"Yeah, but he bunted. Clowns are only funny when they swing away!"
More overexposed
Brian Wilson or Peyton Manning?
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
I like Manning more than Wilson though
"Skipper, we're losing the crowd. Put it our new novelty act."
"Darn it! I already put in the circus clown!"
"Yeah, but he bunted. Clowns are only funny when they swing away!"
by KlausChadman on Jul 12, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Wilson, without a doubt
Manning can lay claim to being one of the top 5 at his job all-time….plus I wouldn’t describe Manning as having a shtick like Wilson does.
A testy Pujols when asked by @JoeStrauss if he thinks this injury will affect his future "that’s a stupid question, Joe," then walks off.
Yeah, I can't really describe Manning other than as quietish, probably nice, boring.
He has a brother and likes Oreos.
Still not a werewolf.
Peyton strikes me as kind of a chatterbox actually
but yeah, he seems pretty normal. Wilson goes out of his way to be a circus freak in public.
A testy Pujols when asked by @JoeStrauss if he thinks this injury will affect his future "that’s a stupid question, Joe," then walks off.
Which, honestly, I'm totally fine with.
I like characters and baseball needs a few.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
2 brothers actually.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 12, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Poor Cooper
Always forgotten.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
ASG 2011 - Attack of the Three Unassisted.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Matt Kemp, leading MVP candidate?
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
not to be a homer
but Berkman should be in the conversation….
A testy Pujols when asked by @JoeStrauss if he thinks this injury will affect his future "that’s a stupid question, Joe," then walks off.
WAR isn't anything
But this guy almost didn’t make the all star team.
Reyes 5.2
McCutchen 5.1
Berkman 3.0
Grit != flat out sucking.
not to mention being the healthy guy on a first place team that has been screwed by injuries so far
A testy Pujols when asked by @JoeStrauss if he thinks this injury will affect his future "that’s a stupid question, Joe," then walks off.
isn't he a shoe in for comeback player of the year?
has anyone won that and mvp in the same year?
.280 .357 .500 .857
He's no Andre Dawson.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Aaron Miles all the way.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 13, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Dear Arizona Fans
You are booing the wrong guys. This is why you can’t have nice things.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
by TBender on Jul 12, 2011 8:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Hey
since when was Hamilton healthy?
/doesn’t pay any attention to the AL central
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Or West apparently.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Wait
Houston is in the NL Central but Texas is in the West…?
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Yes.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Arlington is further west than Houston.
It makes sense.
/nonotreallybutworkwithmehere
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Kansas City is the Westernmost team in the Central.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
So technically yes
Arlington is west-ish
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
I think Texas is considered southwest.
But The AL West only has four teams and the AL Central has 5 so it wouldn’t be fair.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
that's why I say it's an easy mistake to make
I live in an AL Central city and I still do that all the time. It’s goofy.
(See also: Pittsburgh and Philly.)
A testy Pujols when asked by @JoeStrauss if he thinks this injury will affect his future "that’s a stupid question, Joe," then walks off.
Yeah.
It’s strange.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Jose Bautista
the regressioning
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
His pain is only good in Canada.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
A fresh thread
not on the front page, just a fanshot
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 8:54 PM EDT reply actions
no, because this one is tagged properly.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
WEEEEEEEEEEE LOVE YOU SCOTTY!!!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Pumas are native to Arizona.
I had nothing to do with that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Watching Molina run
Is like watching a burrito roll up hill
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jul 12, 2011 9:46 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 5 recs
ell oh ell. wreck't
Officer Olson: What'd this guy look like, anyway?
Mr. Mohra: Oh, he was a little guy... Kinda funny lookin'.
Officer Olson: Uh-huh. In what way?
Mr. Mohra: Oh, just in a general kinda way.
by threadkiller on Jul 12, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
My god
Michelle Branch has a tattoo on her right wrist that just says “right” which I assume is for her to tell which hand is which
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 12, 2011 10:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
After watching Heath Bell in the all star bonanza...
I actually want him to be a Cardinal.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 12, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
oh come one
now they’re just taking the piss
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
See, that's what winners do
make trades for proven closers!
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Apparently the streets are paved with gold in milwaukee
don’t know how they’re going to pay for that option next year otherwise. Rodriguez doesn’t seem like the type of reasonable fellow to be a set-up man for a nobody like Axford.
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
This is a great way to avoid paying the option...
trade him somewhere with an established closer. Now the MLBPA can’t say a damn thing.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
the field, stripped bare by her groundskeepers, even.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYA
http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/statuses/91134374208221184
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Hmm, I guess we're back here now.
B_Walton Brian Walton
RT @SI_JonHeyman: jaime garcia & #cardinals complete multiyear deal. annc. could come today. $27.5mil for 4 yrs, plus 2 options #stlcards
mlbtraderumors MLB Trade Rumors
Cardinals Agree To Multiyear Deal With Jaime Garcia http://bit.ly/ra96Nd #mlb
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 13, 2011 9:31 AM EDT reply actions
we should open another fanshot
or something. where be the mods?
In the meantime, we can exile soccer here:
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2011/7/13/2273687/dont-hate-us-cause-were-watching-kicky-nets-us-vs-france-womens-semis
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
RB is going have a really big post this after noon
with a lot of content for everyone to digest.
And people are going to gloss over it and talk about the Garcia signing.
Grit != flat out sucking.
oh that's right! it's wednesday
I plum forgot.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
either way, both threads are getting top-heavy. y'all can move to the soccer if you wish.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
shall I, or do you want to?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Have at.
There’s coffee to be made at The Continental abode.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 13, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Or rb will just put up his daythread 3 hours early.
"In the end, ... I have to learn my own swing. Then maybe I'll be whatever everyone wants me to be." -Colby
by The Continental on Jul 13, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
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