David Freese - A Different Player in the Minors
by azruavatar on Jul 10, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
Email
PrintThe Cardinals traded Jim Edmonds to the Padres in December of 2007. He had 362 homeruns and was a fixture of the Cardinals outfield for the previous 8 seasons. The Cardinals had signed Edmonds to an ill-advised contract extension the previous season during a time that he was clearly on the decline. In return, the Cardinals received a third baseman who had just completed High-A at the age of 24. David Freese had hit reasonably well at Lake Elsinore (.302/.400/.489) though, given his age, he was not a particularly exciting prospect. Four years and multiple major injuries later, he's the Cardinals starting third baseman and an important part of the team.
At the time of his acquisition, the Cardinals had Allen Craig who had consistently hit well during his time in the minors and was still playing third base. Freese wasn't seen as a significant upgrade over Craig; arguably, they were the same player. Depth can yield benefits, as it has in this case, but the departure of a sentimental favorite from the Cardinals for a prospect who looked vaguely familiar was a tough one for some fans to swallow.
In David Freese's first season in the Cardinals' system was a jump from the Padres' High-A club to the Cardinals' AAA Memphis. He endeared himself to fans by hitting 26 homeruns during the 510 PAs in 2008. Freese hit well enough to get some attention for the third base position entering 2009. Injuries would ultimately derail both his 2009 and 2010 but while he's been in the lineup, David Freese has performed impressively on offense.
David Freese is currently hitting .333/.385/.423. His major league line is .312/.370/.419 across 439 PAs (about 2/3rds of a season). Freese has a career .348 wOBA which is above average. What's odd is the way in which Freese has advanced his offense. In some ways, he's failed to live up to his minor league performance. Over 1675 PAs in the minors, David Freese had an ISO of .224 with a slugging percentage over .500. Freese hasn't approached those numbers in the majors.
While power in the minors does not directly translate to power in the majors, it's odd for a player to see such a fundamental aspect of his offensive profile essentially disappear. With Freese's injuries, it's difficult to say what, if any role, those injuries could have played in sapping power. Alternately, as Freese becomes more accustomed to the majors, it's possible that we could see additional power production from the 3rd baseman.
Additional power might be critical to Freese's continued offensive production. With line drive rates and batting averages on balls in play that are likely unsustainable in the long term, Freese will need to increasingly rely on his secondary skills to maintain his offensive performance. With a walk rates that can only be described as as unimpressive, Freese has been reliant on his ability to reach base via hits.
Long term Freese has the possibility to be a 3-4 WAR player based on his performance to date. At age 28, the long term isn't necessarily that long. What the Cardinals will need to decide in the next few years is whether Matt Carpenter or David Freese will be a key component of the club. Matt Carpenter has shown some slightly improved power output (accounting for park) at Memphis while maintaining his high walk rate (18.5%). Carpenter isn't a particularly young player either turning 26 in November. Still, as the acquisition of David Freese with Allen Craig showed, depth is never a bad thing.
233 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
What I find annoying
Is he’s apparently been moved to #2 in the order, but his lack of walks and high average really make him a good #5 or #6 hitter (I would think).
And Rasmus, who is a low-ish average, high walk guy is put at the bottom in the order. I think being there he’s under far more pressure to swing at pitches, rather than try to walk….
SAVE THE WALKAPOTAMOOSE
open a veb nature reserve
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
TLR temporary insanity
On this mornings KMOX Talk with Tony, he said batting Freezer in the 2-hole was a mistake. Expect him to be back at 6th in the batting order from now on, except today he’ll be hitting 5th since Berk gets a day off.
wait, so another lineup mistake?
There was the whole thing with Yadi that all the outlets picked up
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
frustrating....
Not much power out of Freese, who is the Anti-Rasmus. I wish John Jay could play third. As for our Minor Carp, is he still on starvation watch?
by RedAllOver on Jul 10, 2011 6:53 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Fun fact: The "anti-Rasmus" has struck out in a greater percentage of PAs than Rasmus himself
Freese: 24%
Rasmus: 23.1%
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 10, 2011 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I read it wrong but Freese still leads.
23.4% to 23.1% over Rasmus
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 10, 2011 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh lord
since when was this a 4 day series…
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
Don't you worry! Jaime got today's game. We're gonna finish this half with a winning streak!
Dear Riot, I have tried to publicly support you. I really have. I still appreciate your batting approach and will do my best to keep the natives fair to you during gamethreads. However, due to several self-evident factors, I feel it best that we go our separate ways at this juncture. Respectfully, but no longer yours, a fink
fespn awed and amazed by two catchers, one inning
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Heard Rasmus' error last night
Was it painfully embarrassing? Reaction from Jay Randolph (yes there is such a thing) had me concerned Tony was going to replace him mid-inning and send him home to his daddy with a note.
YOG
o dear lord almighty
that was ugly. bad hop or no, that was ugly.
.273 .351 .488 .838
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 10, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Rasmus
Clearly not a Major League effort. Rasmus’ approach to the play from the start was, shall I say, unfocused. His missing the ball was pure lack of concentration. We’ve seen this before with Colby, but, to be fair no player is “on it” 100% of the time. Even Mays and Edmonds had their lapses. The problem is these kinds of events, coupled with his struggles at the plate and his perceived problems with the organization, fold themselves into an ongoing negative dynamic.
I say he’s still young and developing, and let’s have patience and give him some space. I know you’ve heard that before, but if he manages to work his way out of this stuff and flowers, it will have been worth it
it often seems that it's his lack of focus that's the problem on defense, not his talent.
and that’s what’s so frustrating. btw, is your handle based on a faulkner novel?
.273 .351 .488 .838
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 10, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
No different than a certain nutshot or a few dozen Theriot plays.
We won the game and yet the thing we are talking about today is Colby Rasmus. Put the axes away and take a chill pill, people.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
and that play,
ugly as it may have been, likely only cost us one run
by prophetjohn on Jul 10, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
On the other hand,
Colby Rasmus is lazy and I heard he punches old ladies for fun.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
i'm not saying
we shouldn’t option him to communist china
by prophetjohn on Jul 10, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's trade him to Al-Qaeda.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
by hazel on Jul 10, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's not relevant in itself. The pattern of defensive miscues combined with his struggles at the plate this year relative to last are disappointing.
Plus, dewey said
I say he’s still young and developing, and let’s have patience and give him some space. I know you’ve heard that before, but if he manages to work his way out of this stuff and flowers, it will have been worth it, so I’m not sure exactly what axes you’re talking about.
Plus, you just compared him to Theriot. You don’t think there’s a problem worth discussing?!
I understand the defensive posture considering what sort of crap regarding Colby one is likely to read over at PD or at the water-cooler, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to discuss his struggles intelligently ’round these parts.
Enter my contest! Win great prizes! Here.
yep, well said.
the kid is having problems and there’s no reason to ignore it and give him a pass on some criticism. Nobody is immune to that.
Colby is becoming more and more frustrating to me. I’ve been really pulling for him to put it together and light it up, but it seems to me that he has a lack of concentration or a lack of drive. He needs a fire lit under him. He’s playing like a player who wants to be traded. He seems to be regressing rather than progressing.
He has the tools but he doesn’t seem to have the will…that’s just from observation. I don’t know what the real problem is but there is something wrong and I think he’s just not happy.
A minor injury, just enough to sit him out for about 10 days, might do him and the club some good. Right now, Jay in center looks good to me.
No axe grinding here, the criticism is deserved.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
we also probably don't win the game last night
(at least not in the 9th) if he doesn’t get a lead-off hit. Just saying.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
well the corner where the axes are usually stored is empty
somebody had to do something with them. Pitchforks are still in place though.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I'm a big Colby Fan
I think he’s going to be one of the top-3 centerfielders in the game for 5-10 years.
But on a play like that, I would literally have subbed him for John Jay mid-inning. Let him take the long humiliating walk in from center field with 40,000 fans muttering. Then told him to hit the showers, don’t bother coming to the park today, and spend the next 4 days thinking about whether he wanted to be a baseball player or just a f^&*-up.
Good thing I don’t have kids.
YOG
Eh. This is all armchair psychology. Something like that could certainly do just as much harm as good.
I tend to think the opposite, that he needs encouragement and that it’s a confidence issue rather than drive, but that’s just my armchair psychology. I have no idea if it’s true. I also have no idea what sort of encouragement or “fire lit under him” he’s getting in the clubhouse. I think it’s clear that he is valued by the staff and by management, so I’m sure they’re doing their best. I hope it works.
Enter my contest! Win great prizes! Here.
Possibly the fact
That I watched Glengarry Glen Ross last night has something to do with my outlook…..
I previously was of the opinion that the Cards should trade Jay while his value is high
I’m starting to reconsider. Come on Colby, get it together.
by OCCardsFan on Jul 10, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
trade rasmus while his value is low
by prophetjohn on Jul 10, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
lets not trade either of our
young cost controlled lefthanded CFer’s for relief pitchers or journey man starters.
Please Mo. Don’t do that.
Grit != flat out sucking.
I do agree with that.....
But I would be open to moving one of them, if we got something in return that made sense.
just remember
It took ludwick to land Westbrook. So don’t expect more than that with just one of them by themselves.
Grit != flat out sucking.
i'm not sure of that
there are only 4 teams or so that are clear cut sellers right now. Everyone needs pitching. Demand is up, supply is down.
If Mo can trade one them for a Cliff Lee, or Halladay that would be great. But Phillie isn’t selling those. Though florida may be willing to talk Rasmus for Javier Vazquez.
Grit != flat out sucking.
really
you think we can get javier “5.23 ERA” vazquez for rasmus?
might need to throw in miller and a couple virgins also
that's kinda my point on why we shouldn't be shopping for pitching with our outfield depth
Look at the teams out of contention:
Baltimore
Houston
Florida
Teams that might also be selling come deadline:
Toronto
KC
Cubs
LA
San Diego.
Now look at their starting pitchers. Which ones that a team would be willing to give up that you really want and realistically think we could get with Chambers, Craig or Jay without giving up Miller or Martinez.
Grit != flat out sucking.
you think chambers, craig or Jay get's francis?
The guy has an FIP under 4 and is only making $2 Million. I think he is likely to move. But I don’t think that will get it done.
Grit != flat out sucking.
The cubs, dodgers, and SD, could use a CFer
I wouldn’t think pitchers like
Kuroda
Lily
Zambrano
Dempster
Harang
are out of the question.
i don't think we will trade in the divison
but Kuroda does look attractive.
Grit != flat out sucking.
I wouldn't mind trading Jay or Chambers to the cubs if we got Dempster in return
I’d throw in a pitching prospect like rosenthal to get marshall as well.
Willing to take on the Dempster contract as well,
or do the Cubs need to send some cash back?
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd take it on if needed, he has a player option for $14M(probably not picked up) which is basically Carpenter's salary
so we could potentially trade him or Carp during the winter if both options are picked up.
Oakland and Seattle might be sellers
Maybe we could get Seattle to throw in Brendan Ryan ;)
"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11
This discussion has to start at Chambers and end with Craig or Jay.
Unless we can get a boat-load for Rasmus, we’re selling low on a gifted player.
Enter my contest! Win great prizes! Here.
i just don't see chambers, craig or Jay
bringing in much more than westbrook and McClellan
Grit != flat out sucking.
You're probably right.
We need to hit the snot out of the ball and get strong pitching from Lohse. He’s the key, I think. I can live with our 4 and 5, and I have faith in Carp and Jaime.
Enter my contest! Win great prizes! Here.
Yeah but why trade him while he's at his lowest point?
That’s just dumb.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 10, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Rasmus alone would bring a lot more than
Westbrook. But I don’t want to see Rasmus traded.
Perhaps flogged under the arch by a leather-clad Mozeliak…
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jul 10, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
in all seriousness though
i worry that rasmus doesn’t have the mental makeup to succeed at this level. i love colby, and if i had to pick the better player going forward – jay or rasmus – i would pick colby every day and twice on sundays when he sits against lefties.
but the mental aspect of the game is huge, and often underrated. and some of the most talented athletes can’t make that leap. i’m not saying colby can’t, but i am saying i am concerned.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
could he have the mental makeup somewhere else?
sometimes that’s all it is. I don’t think he’s happy here.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
if that's the issue that's possible
Though I really can’t think of to many examples of where this actually works. (I don’t think boog counts as an example. Because I don’t think a no spring training after a wrist injury and some bad luck counts as a lack of mental make up)
Grit != flat out sucking.
off the top of my head
I don’t have any specific names, but I’m pretty confident in saying that it happens.
I’m sure there have been lots of players that just didn’t do well on a certain team or with a particular set of coaches or managers, for whatever reason. Sometimes a change of scenery is just the right medicine.
Some of the pitchers that landed under Dave Duncan seemed to do better than they did with someone else, just as an example.
It could just be personal friction. It could be a lot of things.
I’m not saying that it’s the case with Colby, but I’m not ruling it out.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
This is where I'm at -- I'm concerned
I like Colby. I think he should play everyday. But doubts are creeping in. Seems like lots of mental mistakes. Lots of streaks where he looks terrible.
I’m hoping he spends some time with Dad over the break and they get his swing squared away.
he'd be better off cutting all baseball ties with his dad
maybe less contact in general would be good
his dad seems to live vicariously through colby and that’s not a good thing
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
4.3 fWAR last year pretty moves disproves him not being able to be able to succeed at MLB level
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - In need of Secretary and Public Speaker
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 10, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
depends on the definition of success.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
...be a good player?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Then what the heck is your definition of success?
The dude has shown the ability to be a competent major league player. Sounds like success to me.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 10, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
the mothership's trying to take your territory
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
that's fine by me
but i’m using the cards’ page (which is usually rarely updated) and a twitter source.
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
twitter
by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 10, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
i've never been a phil collins fan
and to me, using “in the air tonight” as a walkup song is just plain odd.
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
twitter
by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 10, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Was there really a clip of him singing it in the off-deck circle?
I thought Evilfrog had mentioned it.
Still not a werewolf.
I briefly searched last night and found nothing.
Am willing to put in more effort if I can get a confirmation.
Still not a werewolf.
negative
it was a reference to a burwell article on the greatest moments in st. louis sports over the last decade
Grit != flat out sucking.
i couldn't find the burwell article because, stltoday's website sucks
but here is a fan post about it.
Grit != flat out sucking.
though um...
So why aren’t you talking about Phelps, Woods, Armstrong, Pujols, Manning, Bryant, Federer, and the all the other athletes who have had amazing (tremendous and memorable, even) moments this decade who were all tested and none found wanting?
Maybe Burwell had a point. (yes i know armstrong hasn’t been caught. Just called out by teammates.)
Grit != flat out sucking.
phew. I'm not a Peyton fan, but even rumors about him would depress me.
Enter my contest! Win great prizes! Here.
The more I learn about Berkman...
…the more I like him. Can we sign him for next year, please?
by Archaeopteryx on Jul 10, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
lineup
theriot SS, cruz RF (according to cards’ twitter… no joke), pujols 1B, holliday LF, freese 3B, molina C, punto 2B, jay CF, garcia P
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
twitter
AUGH
1. Why no Berk?
2. Everyone has a bad streak, even Colby…
3. But, WHY WOULD YOU TAKE THEM BOTH OUT AT THE SAME TIME
4. And just because Cruz hit the walkoff shot last night DOESN’T MEAN ANYTHING
5. At least no skip (?)
Berk needs a break
Colby has been ICY cold. There a witch’s tits with more warmth
All i want to do, is get close to you and wake up in the early morning dew
but both out at the SAME time?
and cruz? I mean, at least schumaker has played outfield before, but tony cruz?
I'm sure it's to get his bat in the lineup
He’s been swinging it well, and he’ll likely be in AAA soon after the AS Break. No reason not to give him, perhaps, one last start.
Berk has played a lot recently, and Colby could use a few days off to clear his head, I’m sure.
Wait, this is a really good point.
The All-Star break starts tomorrow. Why is today Designated Rest Day?
Still not a werewolf.
given how far down Jay is
I assume we are facing a lefty. I completely understand it with berkman, who needs a day off and is old.
With Colby it makes me start to dream up theories about his health over the last month.
Or he just thought 4 days would help clear is head better than 3 days and facing a lefty.
Hard telling with Tony.
Grit != flat out sucking.
watch it with the 'old' comments
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 10, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm old too
Wife had me out to four in the morning. I feel like a zombie. My 25 year old self would have had half the stuff that needs to be done today done already.
Grit != flat out sucking.
He played OF in high school.
It’s no big thing. Anyone can play right field right?
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 11, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The all star break is about to hit.
Players will get rest then.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
Berkman is on the All Star team, right?
that’s probably a bit grueling.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
it will look great if they win, bad if they don't.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
why does the outcome of the game matter?
if he goes 0-4 with 3 lousy plays in RF criticism would be fair.
why does the outcome of the game matter?
if they win the game while resting players and giving others playing time then it’s a good thing.
If they lose then it looks dumb.
Just like a lot of moves managers make. It looks great if it works, stupid if it doesn’t.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
why not?
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
instead of on the bench.
if i’m in his shoes, I’ll take the field anywhere.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm talking from my perspective not his
I completely understand why he is doing it. I would do it too. But he said that, and now I have to watch him in right field.
Grit != flat out sucking.
I see, and I understand.
from my own perspective, I don’t fret about it that much. It’s out of my hands so I just go with it. I have to watch Theriot just about every day at SS. There’s no good in letting it get my blood pressure up. Tomorrow is another day.
In fact, if he really screws up it just gives me something to rail about here.
My attitude about these kinds of moves and experiments is……well, lets see what happens.
I’d make different moves that might seem just as odd, sometimes just to see what happens.
In a real blowout, I’d be tempted to give Skip the ball in the 9th, just for fun.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure Cruz doesn't care where he plays or how well the team does
as long as he impresses the manager enough to get steady playing time.
i don't doubt that he was telling the truth
but you know, now he is in right field!
Grit != flat out sucking.
and he gets 3-4 more ABs in the Major Leagues.
I don’t see any reason to complain.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuck this lineup.
If we need Cruz in the lineup that badly, have him play SS
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
i think you mean 2B.
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
twitter
by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 10, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, YES!!!!
Now this is the lineup I’ve been waiting for! Just think of the creative juices it took to come up with this masterpiece! TOWELS, PLEASE!
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 10, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to reserve judgement on this.
As much as I bash TLR, I’m assuming there is some thought behind it. Let’s see what happens.
In all honesty, with all the injuries and juggling and such, the team is right in the thick of things.
I’m going to defer to Tony……..geez, that’s hard to spit out.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
twas a joke, Dave
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 10, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
yea, I know.
I should have put that up a little higher somewhere.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
WHY ARE WE STARTING JON JAY AGAINST A LEFTY EVER?!?!?!?!?!
AND WHY ARE WE STARTING A C/3B IN RIGHT FUCKING FIELD?!?!?!?!
AND WHY IS PUNTO PLAYING SECOND AND THERIOT PLAYING SHORT?!?!? JUST FUCKING SWITCH THEM!!!!
GET OFF THE FUCKING ROCKER, TONY.
miller for miles!
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 10, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
We just have to accept if Theriot is playing, it is at short, and move on
I’ll second that!
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
i know, but i took the opportunity to bitch about it.
miller for miles!
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 10, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
it was just part of a long list today.
miller for miles!
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 10, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
there is worry about punto's elbow
his last start at second he “floated” a few balls. Which is why Dirty Dan start shortstop over him the other day.
Is Cruz a “3B” now? I thought he was just a “C” and the last time he played there we said WHY ARE WE STARTING A C AT CATCHER?!?!?!?!?. But either way. Yes. Why do we have three catchers on the roster and only 4 outfielders.
Grit != flat out sucking.
hehe
s Cruz a "3B" now? I thought he was just a "C" and the last time he played there we said WHY ARE WE STARTING A C AT CATCHERTHIRD?!?!?!?!?
Grit != flat out sucking.
yeah i know what you meant
he played a little 3B in the minors which most people didn’t know (myself included) until after a fit of outrage
Right field?
Oh my sweet Jesus… Has Tony Cruz become the new Mark DeRosa? Just stick him somewhere out there and he’ll be able to at least fake it?
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 10, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
they shoehorned Craig in at different positions to get him in the lineup.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
but craig hits like a corner outfielder and Cruz hits like a backup catcher.
Grit != flat out sucking.
so today he hits like a backup catcher in the outfield.
oh well.
I gotta think that something this odd has some kind of reasoning behind it….the weather, the All Star break, his mom called Tony. Who knows.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 10, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Craig can rake
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 10, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Won lost percentage
I have long thought that a won-lost percentage for individual players would be an interesting stat. for example, if a player played more than 4-5 innings, what would be the teams won lost percentage in those games, and how would it compare to other players. It seems to me that Freese would have a higher percentage than most other Cardinals. This may sound like WAR only different and understandable.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 10, 2011 10:57 AM EDT reply actions
That wouldn't really work at all across the league, and would be extremely limited within a team.
In the case of the former, Mike Cameron would look like a much better player than, say, Matt Kemp.
And within a team, it wouldn’t tell you all that much. win/loss percentage has a whole lot to do with how the rest of the team plays regardless of one player’s contributions, the pitching, and the competition. For instance, Tyler Greene might rate better than Albert Pujols %-wise this year (thinking back on how we were playing when Greene was up. I have no idea if this is actually true, but it’s an example. I suspect one could find all sorts of similar aberrations quite easily).
Finally, most guys play most of the games, rendering it worthless for them.
So no, I don’t think this would tell all that much.
WAR is useful in part because it compares a player’s individual contributions to a league-wide baseline for that position. I would also disagree that it’s hard to understand.
Enter my contest! Win great prizes! Here.
sounds more like pitcher wins to me
giving an individual player credit for a team win or loss
by prophetjohn on Jul 10, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Perfect, then!
Now we have a good metric for deciding MVP.
Still not a werewolf.
by clank on Jul 10, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That would be almost entirely dependent on how many games a team wins.
There would be no way to compare players from different teams: Derek Jeter and Brett Gardener would be rated higher than Matt Holliday and Albert Pujols.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
Never against other teams
It would never be used against other teams, only compared to the team the player was on. In other words, say a team was80-80 with two catchers, but one had played 50-30 and the other 30-50. That is an exaggeration, but that is how I would see it used.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Jul 10, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
There are stats like that trying to figure how individual catchers affect their pitcher's era on a team.
I read an article comparing Napoli and Mathis last year. Even that, with all other variables accounted for, didn’t tell you much about the individuals. A win or loss is just too dependent on so many other things for one position (pitcher as well, but that’s another story) player to get any sort of informative credit for it.
Enter my contest! Win great prizes! Here.
sounds like +/- from hockey or basketball
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
CTRL + F "BABIP"
Not found
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Tony Cruz has a .382 BABIP
no way he will keep up this .317 average and .391 OBP!!!!
Grit != flat out sucking.
...Welp
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
now the two official lineups:
zona: Bloomquist SS, Johnson 2B, Upton RF, Young CF, Pena LF, Roberts 3B, Nady 1B, Blanco C, Duke P
cards: theriot SS, cruz RF, pujols 1B, holliday LF, freese 3B, molina C, punto 2B, jay CF, garcia P
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
twitter
Drew is not their starting shortstop.
Has his new Cardinals uniform not been finished?
Still not a werewolf.
by clank on Jul 10, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
it was fun watching him make a couple plays effortlessly last night
and knowing that there was no way in hell Theriot would have come close to them.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
i don't know why tony didn't just let Laird catch and put molina at 3B.
that way we could get all three in the game at the same time.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 10, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
cruz at 3B would have been ok. put pujols in RF?
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
twitter
by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 10, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
pujols at catcher
Laird at SS, cruz- LF, Molina- RF, miller at 1B
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 10, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Why are all of these people following me on twitter?
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2011 12:27 PM EDT reply actions
they're not
you just forgot your meds again.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 10, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, they're "badges"
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 10, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn, where'd I put that peyote?
Last place I remember having it was drifting across the soundscapes of thought.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
per rains
Cards rotation to start second half: Westbrook, Carpenter, Garcia in Cincy….Lohse, McClellan to follow in New York.
FIRE TONY LARUSSA
twitter
i thought we were playing the stros next?
.277 .355 .497 .852
by Oedipa Maas on Jul 10, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoa, after today's (7/10) game, we don't have another home game until the 25th.
Still not a werewolf.
uh, why?
they should just start carpenter on friday and go from there.
miller for miles!
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 10, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
every guy in the world wishes they could screw Hope Solo like the referee just did.
by longhornscardinals on Jul 10, 2011 1:01 PM EDT reply actions
Yep. stealing that for Twitter
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
But they don't because they know her dad Han will kick their asses.
Still not a werewolf.
by clank on Jul 10, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who is Hope Solo?
I don’t follow kickball by the way.
by WizardofOz1982 on Jul 11, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
package jon jay and matt carpenter and receive (fill in the blank) in return
miller for miles!
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 10, 2011 1:40 PM EDT reply actions
I'd sell high on Freese, but that's just me
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
BLASPHEMY
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
if by "we" you mean me and zoomzoom, yeah
by prophetjohn on Jul 10, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
call me crazy
but I’d trade almost anyone in the org (sans Miller) for Haren (if we could extend him)
I wonder what kind of firesale the Cubs are looking at.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
(Garza?)
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The big problem today
Is the rumor of no Shannon and no John Rooney.
Not to asperse, but listening to Jay Randolph and Mike Claiborne should be called the “Flat, Dull, Boring Cliche Show (now with long deadly silences…!)”
YOG
No fucking way, US
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2011 1:59 PM EDT reply actions
HOLY FUCKING SHIT
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Everybody. Turn on to ESPN.
Don’t care if you like soccer or not
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
After the Brazil fake injury bullshit
I was about to post “this is why I have trouble getting into soccer”.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That was fucking despicable
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
ESPN3.com
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Do what you want
But we’re going into PKs against a favored, hated opponent after scoring an equalizer 2 minutes into stoppage time in overtime
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I was all prepared to come here and say
“this game is exactly why I hate soccer.” Then we scored and now I don’t hate soccer. . . until we lose
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Honestly, the way Brazil played at the end set soccer back 20 years
If you’re a casual fan, and don’t watch soccer anymore because of that, I can’t blame you
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I believe so, yes.
/totally didn’t google her just now because of her cool name
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
She's hot.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
You don't say.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Hope.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Congrats, US
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jul 10, 2011 2:14 PM EDT reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Viva El Birdos
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
