The Lance Lynn Emergency Start Survival Kit
by DanUpBaby on Jun 2, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
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PrintIt's never good news when Matt Holliday hits the disabled list—especially when the piecemeal way in which he vanished from the lineup means his stint there isn't retroactive to whenever the quadriceps problem actually began—but now, when Allen Craig and Jon Jay have combined for two wins, is probably as good a time for his second trip from the lineup as the Cardinals could hope for.
Craig has basically recreated his minor league career, which was filled with seasons like this (with fewer walks and singles)—he was a career .321/.380/.548 hitter with Memphis, and now he's hitting .337/.402/.537 in about a hundred at-bats with St. Louis. Together with his less impressive rookie season I think he's hit more or less like we Craigen-unleashers hoped he might—.287/.346/.469. If he's an average outfielder and he can play second and third base in the same way Scott Spiezio could ostensibly play second and third base, that's a very valuable player.
As for Jon Jay, he appears to be pissed off about all those suggestions the Cardinals trade him and replace him with Adron Chambers (who homered twice yesterday.) In 396 MLB at-bats he's hit .313/.372/.447, against 1564 minor league at-bats at .301/.367/.432. What's surprising about both of these players isn't that they've found some new gear; it's that they've put together performances that are almost identical to what they did at their best in the minor leagues. Haven't they seen their MLEs?
Lance Lynn emergency start survival kit:
1 (ONE) Radar Gun: Lynn's sudden ability to rile up internet-based fans and impressionable bloggers like myself came after two years as a Dave Duncan special, a guy who didn't throw as hard as it looked like he could but got a lot of groundballs anyway.
After a mediocre start to his AAA career, Lynn began throwing considerably harder than he had before, getting as high as 96 on a fastball that seemed geared more for strikeouts than contact and striking out 16 batters in a PCLCS start to get the hyperventilating prospect geek detective agency on the case. Earlier this year our own robot wrote about this phenomenon on Future Redbirds; it's as good a summary of the change as you'll find.
1 (ONE) Set of Reasonable Expectations: 5 IP, 3 ER, maybe? He's working on three days' rest, which means that especially thorough survival kit makers might add a little Tony La Russa Righteous Indignation to their own packs. It seems like it's been a while since we've been able to have unreasonable expectations for a returning or arriving starter—Kyle Lohse we could barely hope for anything at all; Kyle McClellan we could hope for, oh, 5 IP and 3 ER; Chris Carpenter we could hope that his arm stayed attached. Shelby Miller will arrive in St. Louis under three years of repressed hype; I don't envy him.
1 (ONE) Kyle McClellan Starting Lineup action figure: He's Kyle McClellan! He's pretty good! If Lance Lynn has a great start, remember that Kyle McClellan's been pretty good, and probably won't be removed from the starting rotation immediately for a 24-year-old with an ERA of four-ish in the PCL. He's Kyle McClellan! He's only pretty good! If Lance Lynn has a terrible start, remember that Kyle McClellan's only been pretty good, and might not have done any better, especially after that ugly return-to-earth start.
If you do decide to paint your own Kyle McClellan Starting Lineup action figure, I recommend going with the goofy football practicing-quarterback doll with the half-shirt. But you have a lot of options.
1 (ONE) Space Blanket: It just seems like the cautious thing to do. I don't have a lot of experience putting together survival kits and all the eHow guides suggestion space blankets. If it gets cold out, I suppose you could get under this? In Japan they have not yet invented central heating or walls, so I am a little envious of anyone who does not need a space blanket at this juncture.
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As bad as Franklatista was (are)
Puma let us down w/a poor AB vs. Casillas in the 7th. No way he should swing on 2-0.
Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: The Riot 6, Rasmus 8, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, Berkman 9, Craig/Punto 4, Molina 2, DD/Lil Carp 5, pitcher (Get well soon, Mr. Freese)
Not to say I want to see him often,
but Franklin did OK his first inning last night. I don’t believe he should ever pitch two innings. The point about Berkman’s AB remains. Another run (or two) there and we win the game in regulation.
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 2, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, even at the height of his beardedness
never pitch him more than one inning. nuts.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I thought I heard them announce
that there was a blogger from England present at the game.
and I thought: HMMM.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Whoa, is that what that is???
I knew I recognized the art, I just couldn’t remember why.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
MLEs
Though minorleague.com is no longer updated(kinda sad), it’s MLE calculator is still available.
I used their AAA numbers to get their MLEs.
Allen Craig 280/330/455
Jon Jay 257/308/359
They have been clearly outperforming expectations, especially Jay. Given their sky high BABIPs(Craig .384, Jay .398), regress to the mean is inevitable. However, even after some regression, they should remain as fine contributors.
Cardinals fan from Korea
You have to wonder
whether the Cards sell high on the chief justice in the off season.
Why not this season?
We need bullpen help, and there have to be some teams interested in his ability to play good defense at all three outfield positions and hit at a better than average rate.
We have Adron Chambers, Andrew Brown, Shane Peterson, and Daryl Jones at AAA and three of those four can be a decent fourth outfielder and play all three positions in a pinch (not to mention that Tyler Greene is a decent fill in defensively in CF).
I really like Jon Jay, but Rasmus is our CF of the future, and Jay’s best value to us (when Holliday returns) is as a trade piece to pick up short stop or bullpen help. If Allen Craig could get all the AB’s at 2B the rest of the season and Punto plays all the SS innings when he returns, I’d look to deal Jay straight up for bullpen help if I could.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I always wonder how high. . .
the trade value for a tweener guy like Jon Jay is, even for one with the impressive hitting stats that Jay has. Theoretically, at least, I would think that every team would have a guy like that on their roster or in AAA. Granted, what separates Jay is that he has hit (a luck-aided) 312/370/444 in 449 PAs and the Ben Franciscos/Chris Denorfias of the world haven’t. But wouldn’t most major league GMs assume that their tweener is likely to put up the same line as Jay in the next 450 MLB PAs? I would hope so.
So what does Jay get you? Not Heath Bell, certainly, at least not straight up, and probably not even as the centerpiece of a deal that includes a couple of B-level prospects (Matt Carpenter? Maikel Cleto? Ryan Jackson? Adron Chambers?).
Then you have to ask the question of whether it’s worth it to deal Jay for a good, non-closer reliever who is only going to get you 40-50 IP the rest of the way.
And finally, there’s the chance (10%? 25%? 50%?) that Jay is a true talent 815 OPS guy as a 350 PA per season OF who can play plus-defense in an OF corner, adequate defense in CF, and is cost-controlled. That guy has a lot of value that you shouldn’t give up (IMHO) for 40-50 bullpen innings.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, all that is true
But I think the situation can be team dependent as as well. Take Atlanta for instance: they have a giant hole in CF right now. Nate McClouth isn’t performing well on either side of the ball while Jordan Schafer and Matt Young both stink. They have tons and tons of arms at AAA and AA but little outfield help that is close to the majors. They have a chance to contend if Heyward comes back healthy and they get anything from Dan Uggla.
I would guess they’d be willing to make a trade for someone like Jay and give up a bullpen arm (someone like Kimbrel or O’Flaherty but not Venters) that they can easily fill from AAA for someone like Jay, who could give them a boost in CF. I know if I was Atlanta I’d be thinking about that type of deal — maybe I go after Beltran instead and eat his whole contract. I don’t know. But I would think that Jay has some value, and bullpen arms are easy to come by for a lot of organizations.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I would give Jay for Kimbrel.
2.2 rWAR right now.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
perhaps if we toss in an old shoe we could get heyward also
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Kimbrel
Atlanta’s CF has sucked since ’08, the highest TOTAL since 08 has been Josh Anderson at .6 rWAR.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
I'm just saying Kimbrel has been worth more than JAIME
he’s been arguably the best RP in baseball.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
wow
that’s amazing.
"You made me live a lie, Tony," Paquette says, "and it ends this morning. Not everybody can play second base."
damn, I just want to admit
Jaime has been worthy a little more. I could’ve swore with rWAR Jaime wasn’t worth that much.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Kimbrel for Jay is an intriguing option, certainly
if only because (A) Kimbrel would probably be the best pitcher in the pen, and (B) he, like Jay, is cost-controlled.
If you are Atlanta, though, you could probably get a Beltran or a JD Drew (I know, I know, he has sucked this year) or Alfonso Soriano (plus salary relief) or some other, more established option. None of those really can play CF well, although Jay would merely be adequate out there, too.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The Astros might be willing to part with Bourn
if the price is right.
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
he's probably going to cost a lot for atlanta.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
all three of thoses options are all big DL risks
also drew and soriano don’t play CF, and beltran’s knees are a concern which is why he’s playing in RF.
They need a CFer
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
jay's defense in center would be way
way, way better than any of those. you just mentioned alfonso soriano
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
better than Soriano, sure
I’m not sure it would be better than Beltran or Drew, however.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
shane peterson was traded to oakland as part of the holliday trade
and i think chambers is the only other one that could be considered a decent fourth OF
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
and it occurred to me that you mean shane robinson
in which case i still think chambers is the only decent option in memphis
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Yeah
That was my bad, thanks for the correction.
I do think that Robinson could be a defensive 4th outfield option though. Not as good as Jay, but Craig is a multi-position guy, which means we really only need a guy who can handle CF once and a while.
I agree, Chambers is the best of those guys, but they all can help provided they can play all three outfield positions.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Tommy Pham has a shot at being in MLB by next year, too
and he’s right-handed, which arguably makes him a better backup for Colby than any of those lefty guys (obviously Robinson’s a righty as well, but basically sucks).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Andrew Brown can NOT play all three OF positions.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Disagree with eval
Of the AAA hiiters. There is little at AAA OF right now that can help. Maybe with another hot month they will feel more comfortable with Chambers. However, Jones Brown and Peterson all have serious flaws in their game and could not handle long term exposure in the ML.
If you trade Jay and Colby goes down, what do you do about CF? Play Chambers and hope he is ready.
I agree he could be traded as part of a Heath Bell deal, but it exposes this club, especially with Berkman and Holliday having nagging injuries.
by CardFaninTTown on Jun 2, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Plenty of things you can do if Colby goes down:
You can platoon Tyler Greene and Schumaker out there. That’s not great defensively, but it would work in a pinch if needed.
You can call up Chambers and hope he’s ready to play.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Argh.
Please never speak of a Schu/Greene CF platoon ever again.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
by hazel on Jun 2, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I rec this as hard as i can.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
This
We have a LF on the DL at the moment, and a RF who isn’t really a RF and who has a dubious recent injury history who shouldn’t be playing every day. TLR has been able to find over 100 PA for both Jay and Craig so far, both will probably get >300 this year. I think 300 PA for an above-average guy (like either of those) as opposed to someone like Chambers of Brown (who’re probably going to be replacement-level types right now) is more valuable than a bullpen rental.
The right-hand side of our pen is fine. The only thing I’d be interested in trading for is a shutdown lefty (although he’s looked poor this year and seems to be the on the slide, the guy I’d look at with the proviso that he’s largely a lefty specialist is Brian Fuentes, who could be had for very little due to his unfriendly contract, but there are other guys in that boat who could be converted into LOOGYs, like Mike Gonzalez). And, because it’s a “win-now” move, I’d rather deal pieces from the farm to do it than weakening our MLB roster.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought they were both good contact hitters
So .384 and .398 are still high but not sky high if they’re hitters who have high LD% could reasonably have .330-.360 BABIP and I haven’t looked at either’s LD% but I thought that’s a skill both have
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jun 2, 2011 9:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Someone can feel free to correct me on this
Both on BABIP and the LD% if I’m wrong, I’m a little more novice at this than some here
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jun 2, 2011 9:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
they won't be able to maintain a .360 BABIP
i’m pretty sure ichiro is consistently the highest and he’s .355 over his career. if he think they have high BABIP skills (hard contact, good speed), best case would probably be matt holliday territory, around .330
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
i think they're both probably slightly above-average BABIP guys
plenty of reasonably hard-hit contact on the ground, and decent speed. Arguably Jay more so than Craig. I’d say Craig’s maybe a guy who’d manage a .300-.310 at true talent (WAG), and Jay a touch more.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
craig .300, jay .310 would be my guesses
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
those BABIPs seem REALLY conservative
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
what
one is exactly league average and one is above average.
sustaining well above average rates is not particularly common. most hitters are average
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
I know
It’s just that Craig has held a .350 BABIP in the minors in AAA for 2.5 years. I’m not sure how much that translate to MLB, but league average doesn’t sound right.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
different league have different league average BABIPs
PCL is about .330 and as you go lower down the line, it gets higher.
can you give me a reason, why he should be able to sustain greater than average BABIP?
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
LD% is below what he's done in AAA and last year.
/pretty much all i’ve got
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
a decrease in LD% would foretell a lower BABIP, not a higher one
there’s probably a lot of noise in batted ball type data at this point, though. that stuff is still hand recorded as far as i know
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
.330-360 is doable, especially over a single season,
but neither of them are in that range now, and it takes luck to even stay in the 330-360 range.
Regressed to .330 BABIP, Craig isn’t a .300 AVG hitter. The math is even worse for Jay, who has a 6.3% walk rate. I really like what they have done so far, but Jay needs to play better defense and have more patience.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
regressed wOBA for jay and craig:
.367 and .341
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
i don't think that's publicly available
all statcorner has for it is saying that it regresses for batted ball luck
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Statcorner
Their website says that, for their batted ball adjusted wOBAr, they use the player’s career averages. But, if the player has not had enough PAs, Statcorner uses the league average batted ball rates. They don’t say what that threshold is or if they use minor league batted ball rates to calculate wOBAr.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Jay's defence has been fine, one poor choice on a throw yesterday notwithstanding
I simply don’t believe his UZR numbers so far are representative of what he’s done.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Jay's defense looks pretty good to me
"You made me live a lie, Tony," Paquette says, "and it ends this morning. Not everybody can play second base."
He's made a couple bad throws.
And like Colby has missed a couple diving plays. But I think his defense is fine as well.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
It's so idiotic because literally every Jay dive is "a sensational effort"
where he “just barely missed that one.” Last night he dove for a ball that landed a good four feet away from him.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
let me tell you, that uglyyyyy to watch in person.
i was sitting in the third level behind the plate and could tell off the bat there was NO WAY he was going to get to the ball.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah that was weird
I’m not sure it made any difference, though – IIRC it was a double, and would’ve been regardless of how he played it. Throwing to the plate on the go-ahead run (instead of throwing to the cut-off, giving up the run, and keeping the hitter to a single rather than letting him advance to 2B, whereby he later scored on a single) was arguably a bit of a mistake as well, but neither were egregious errors, and I think it’s pretty clear from watching his routes to the ball, glove-work and throwing that he’s a plus defender in the corners and probably a competent one in CF.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Jay all around
I don’t know what the numbers say but he hits, hits with some power, has decent or better speed, fields better than decently and can throw.
If it weren’t for Berkman I’d have him in right field every day and hope he matches Ludwick eventually.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jun 2, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's probably up with Ludwick
I reckon he’ll get on base a bit better, hit with a bit less pop, and field about as well. Hard to know after less than a year but he a lot going for him as you say.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Ludwick
is a a very good right fielder, I don’t think Jay’s quite his caliber in the field just yet but I think he can be. I think he may be a keeper.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jun 3, 2011 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah that was weird
I’m not sure it made any difference, though – IIRC it was a double, and would’ve been regardless of how he played it. Throwing to the plate on the go-ahead run (instead of throwing to the cut-off, giving up the run, and keeping the hitter to a single rather than letting him advance to 2B, whereby he later scored on a single) was arguably a bit of a mistake as well, but neither were egregious errors, and I think it’s pretty clear from watching his routes to the ball, glove-work and throwing that he’s a plus defender in the corners and probably a competent one in CF.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Hank you guys all for the info here
This is one of the many reasons why I like this site
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jun 2, 2011 4:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thank you guys all for the info here
This is one of the many reasons why I like this site
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jun 2, 2011 4:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Craig so far in his MLB career
has hit about what we’d expect, and not been mega lucky. .287/.346/.469 with a .329 BABIP, for a .350 wOBA. I doubt he maintains that BABIP long term but even if he can only manage a .300 BABIP he’s a solidly above-average hitter, with statcorner’s wOBAR (which predicts expected wOBA based on balls-in-play profile) at .341, which probably makes him a slightly above-average player overall. What’s been pretty impressive so far is how well he squares the ball up – he’s got a career rate of 3.2% on IFFB (infield fly balls), which would put him in the top-20 of “fewest popups” players in the majors last year (a list headed up by Joey Votto, who didn’t hit a SINGLE infield flyout last year).
Basically, I really really like Allen Craig. He is and will continue to be a good hitter.
For comparison, Jay’s career wOBA is .357 and his wOBAR is about .335, which is probably closer to what he’ll hit going forward. Still an above-average hitter, though, and with his glove that probably makes him a valuable guy too.
At least we can say, pretty much for certain, that however we make the roster next year, we’ll have a decent player in RF.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
When moving a player to the DL, does their replacement immediately have to be placed on the 25 man roster?
Or can their be a delay? I can think of no other reason why Holiday wouldn’t have been placed on the DL yesterday other than they had not decided who to replace him with yet.
by Handsome B Wonderful on Jun 2, 2011 9:59 AM EDT reply actions
It doesn't have to be immediate,
but Holliday can be placed on the DL retroactive to the last time he appeared in a game, so not placing him immediately isn’t going to hurt us except by the fact that we have an injured guy on the roster.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
thanks
brain fart, don’t know why I didn’t remember that
by Handsome B Wonderful on Jun 2, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
did they say why they are pushing Jaime back one start
is Friday a nationally televised game or something?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
I haven't heard officially. . .
but there are sevral reasons this is a good idea:
1) the Giants’ lineup (86 OPS+) is a heck of a lot easier to make your ML debut against than the Cubs’ (95 OPS+), feckless as the Cubs might be
2) gives the entire rotation an extra day of rest, which is never a bad thing
3) lines up your rotation against the Cubbies
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
because TLR, after letting Jaime throw 50-odd pitches in one inning then running him to a 100+ pitch count
wants to break Lance Lynn’s arm too by putting him out there on 3 days’ rest.
(/not entirely serious)
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It's TLR, not Dusty Baker
"Skipper, we're losing the crowd. Put it our new novelty act."
"Darn it! I already put in the circus clown!"
"Yeah, but he bunted. Clowns are only funny when they swing away!"
I've been watching this for a few years now,
and I’ve noticed more than a few players that just don’t seem to drop their performance from Memphis to St. Louis. Now, some notably flawed hitters obviously see a LOT of drop (Stav), but some don’t see much of a drop at all (Lil’ Dunc, Craig, Jay, Lankford, etc…) It seems to me that some guys can just plain ole hit. I don’t pretend to think that Jay and Craig are playing at their true talent levels, but coming through the system, both players were always touted as true major league hitters.
Maybe I’m the only one that’s seeing this, because my glasses are very rosy on Craig especially.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
craig's average is sure to go down due to his luck, but is his slugging likely to decrease all that much?
i mean, we don’t need craig to be a .300+ hitter, but we sort of do need him to slug around .500. and it seems to me, although correct me if i’m wrong, that when his BABIP regresses to the mean, it will affect his average and to an extent his OBP, but it won’t affect his slugging as dramatically.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
well
some of those balls in play that are falling for hits are doubles and with only 4 HRs, a lot of his slugging is tied up in doubles. if his wOBAr is any indication, a BABIP regression is going to imply a hit to his entire offensive line
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
(only 4 HRs) I think Craig can hit more dingers
so the BABIP regression won’t worry that much.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
well that would put him on pace for 22 HRs per 600 PAs
i think that’s probably pretty close to a reasonable mean projection. ZiPS projects him for 19 per 600
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
If he has a .351 wOBA the rest of the season
that’s good enough for me.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
i guess my thought was that you're more likely to be "lucky" with a single than with a double/triple. singles find IF holes, or get blooped over the SS's head or something
anecdotally speaking, it seems less doubles can be attributed to luck because they are usually hit harder and farther. but i suppose that a lot of doubles could be singles that the player got lucky on.
i also agree that craig can and will hit more dingers. especially with the warmer weather. oh and hey, HFS it’s JUNE.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Grounders down the line. . .
find holes, and often turn into doubles/triples. I have no idea how many of those Craig has.
Also, liners down the line (rather than those that drop in front of OFs also turn into doubles/triples).
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
ZiPS projects about a .450 SLG for Craig
along with a .350 wOBA. That’ll make him an above-average corner outfielder.
I reckon if he SLGs over .500 it’ll not only be surprising, but make him an elite player. If he follows his ZiPs projection but with a .500 SLG, and plays average defence in a corner outfield spot, he’s about a 4+ WAR player. Corey Hart’s 2010 season is probably a fair comp.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
second base!
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Waiting for confirmation from Rainsface or the PD scribes, but
CardsInsider Pitchers Lance Lynn and Maikel Cleto promoted to St. Louis roster. Lynn to make ML debut with start tonight against the SF Giants
CardsInsider is a Twitter feed from the organization, isn't it?
Or, at least this is what its profile reads:
The official Twitter of the St. Louis Cardinals Front Office at Busch Stadium, St. Louis, Missouri.
Cleto to St. Louis? This surprises me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah, i kind of wonder if he's ready
i’m not sure what this move is saying, if anything. i kind of wonder if mozeliak is trying to prove that he actually did get something in return for boog
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
I think it's just saying there aren't a lot of RP options on the 40 besides Boggs.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
though now I see samuel is still on the 40
he probably should’ve got a call up first.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
only if someone is pissed off at the back stop
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
he hasn't pitched this season which i wasn't aware of
so nevermind that .
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
yeah, i noticed now.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
To me,
Boggs would be the logical choice. But, I get the feeling—as does Az—that Cleto will be sent down after Saturday and the club doesn’t want to send Boggs up and down on the Memphis shuttle.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i suppose that's possible
that’s pretty much what they did with hill, albeit for different reasons
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Steven Hill, catcher.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
lance and mailkel are the tandem for today's start
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
They're a tag team,
like High Energy. They may wrestle Aging & Ineffective at the next PPV.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Batista the Ballthrower and Franklin the Flameout.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
wait...so pete kozma is still with the team?
why?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Because Nick Punto is hurt.
Our MiLB MIF is stunningly worse than our MLB MIF (which is hard to believe).
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
but now that allen craig can play second base, what do we need kozma for?
we have descalso, greene, schumaker, theriot, and craig. not to mention that pujols can play 3B. with holliday on the DL, i would almost rather see another OF on the roster.
theriot 6
jay 9
pujols 5
berkman 3
rasmus 8
craig 4
chambers? 7
molina 2
pitcher 1
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
they could bring up Hamilton to replace him
but I think they’ll probably bring him up when Cleto or Lynn gets shuttled back.
And Craig should probably be allowed to play 9 straight innings at 2B before we label him a second baseman, as much as I want to.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
i was being a bit facetious about craig.
but honestly, greene and theriot (sort of) can play SS, greene, theriot, descalso, and schumaker (sort of) can play 2B, and greene, descalso, and pujols (if needed) can play 3B.
i do believe we have the MIF covered. i think chambers or hamilton brings more to this team, by far, than kozma does.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Yeah it has more to do with when Kozma came up
with both Skip and Punto hurt. Why they didn’t send him down when Skip came up, I don’t know. Then why no subsequent move for an OF? Who knows. Don’t want to mess with Hamilton’s PT in Memphis? Just don’t like Chambers? Kozma is good at checkers and doing laundry? These damn gas prices!?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
i blame the gas prices. there are plenty of other rookies to get the drycleaning and scrub the toilets.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Bring up Matt Carpenter already!
Descalso can play 2B or the odd start at 3B. Skip to the bench.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd hope Carp could take over Descalso's utility role
because we have too many players at 3B, and nowhere to put him.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Has there been any word lately of his (Punto's) progress?
At first it was just going to be the 15 days, then 3 months, has there been any recent news? (other than “he’s progressing nicely”)
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 2, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
i cannot fucking believe how many injuries we have had this year
can you imagine what this team will be like once/if we get everyone healthy at the same time? (minus waino, unfortunately)
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
well, not that hard to believe
if they were better, they’d be our MLB MIF
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
Agree.
He is a back-up for innings tonight if Lynn falters. He has been starting and is stretched out for a longer outing if necessary.
And it let’s them see what he has.
by CardFaninTTown on Jun 2, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
is Ottavino still on the 40?
they need to just put him in the bullpen already. He’s not going to be a major league starter. He’d have been my choice instead of Cleto.
I worry a little that Cleto might have some marginal success and then end up as a bullpen guy full-time (kinda like Boggs, although I think Cleto has a higher ceiling as a SP than Mitch).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
ottavino isn't on the 40.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
he is according to the cardinals web site
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
whoa, weird.
Could have sworn I saw him on it and cursed him this morning.
Also, David Kopp? What’s the point?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Mo was scared of the Rule 5 draft
and there was space. Same reason Blake King was added in November, then discarded to Houston last week.
Yeah, hate to lose that guy.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Looks like we're giving Cleto the whirlwind tour.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Cardinals showcasing Cleto as a possible trade chip?
Or is he getting the call because he’s a reliever and on the 40-man roster?
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
They're saying
“Screw it. Throw the kid in the deep end of the pool. We’ll see if he sinks or swims.”
Not really. I got nothing on this move. Unless we have no arm that they trust at Memphis. Could be a trade chip move. They must really be serious about moving Boggs to the rotation or there’s something wrong that they’re just not saying.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
there's always that.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
he may just be an emergency reliever, in the event that
Lynn blows up in the second inning.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jun 2, 2011 10:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This sounds like a reasonable inference
He was starting in the minors, right?
by RasmustheRipper on Jun 2, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep, his last start was on Sunday.
Got his first AA win. Struck out 9 in 6 innings.
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it makes sense
Batista, Franklin, Salas and Sanchez all pitched last night and have pitched a good bit over the last week.
good point
i’d kind of like to see this game be a blowout (preferably in favor of the cards) so that cleto gets to pitch, since i’m not going to be seeing him start saturday in san antonio
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
trying really hard to justify trading boog
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
a bucket full of errors and a weak arm, but a good lead off hitter.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jun 2, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
If he can continue to get HBP'd. . .
once every 7 games and continue to hit exactly the same as he has, then he would be a merely adequate leadoff hitter. Take out the OBPs and he has an underwhelming 317 OBP.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, never mind. . .
I thopught you were talking about Boog.
Yet, Theriot is a good leadoff hitter, at least this year. Crappy SS, though.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
unless you're talking about the riot, i don't know what you're saying
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
theriot does have a 15 game hitting streak
plus a bucket full of errors and a weak arm.
he also has been a good lead off hitter this year…
It adds up!
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
And is a TERRIBLE short stop
I think he’s as bad as some of the converted 2B’s we’ve used there over the years (Miles, Hector Luna etc.)
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Theriot
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jun 2, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
doubtful
No one but a few VEBers care about the trading of Boog.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
i know, it was a joke
also, Rainsface cares and as far as we know, he’s not a VEB’er
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I was reffering to the perception of the General Manager
But even without that in mind.
Who cares? It has no effect on my over all point that Mo isn’t bringing out Cleto to justify the trading of Branden Ryan.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
yeah, it has nothing to do with a 102 mph fastball.
Mo’s ego is out of control!
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Cleto's been really good, and a pleasant surprise
in retrospect, we’ve traded a roughly average SS entering his arby years for a B-level prospect. That’s probably a fair trade.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
if by "roughly average SS"
you mean “roughly average SS over parts of two seasons and horrible in the other two seasons”, then sure.
/pokes old wounds
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Brendan Ryan has amassed 6.9 WAR over 1509 PAs.
That’s an average of 2.74 WAR per 600 PA, which is, in fact, quite a bit above average.
For reference, Stephen Drew (who a lot of folks here seem to like) has amassed 2.42 WAR per 600 PAs in his career thus far. That’s not to say Ryan’s better than Drew going forward, but thus far he’s been a better player, pro-rata.
Ryan’s also done this whilst maintaining a .295 BABIP (which seems a tad unlucky to me for a fast guy who hits the ball on the ground a lot, but given he’s played nearly three full seasons it may be representative of what he’s going to do), and putting up +8 runs/year numbers at SS, which tallies with my eye-test personally, so it doesn’t look like his value is artificially inflated by anything obvious.
So yes, he is roughly average, at least, and if anything I was being slightly down on his capabilities.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think you can use raw WAR that way. . .
when comparing among one position only, because so much WAR is baked into the numbers just because of positional adjustments.
If you sort Fangraphs by leaderboards among SS, for instance, you get the following WAR ranks for Boog:
2011: 15 out of 25 (out of SS qualifying for the batting title)
2010: 15 out of 24 (min 490 PA)
2009: 13 out of 29 (min 430 PA)
2008: 34 out of 46 (min 210 PA)
This doesn’t show median average, obviously, but in exactly one season out of 2009-2011, has Boog been in the top half of major league SS from a value perspective. Granted, 2011 is a third of a season so far, but it is the only one in which Boog has been a full-time player. I’m willing to grant that he was enough of a full-time player for this comparison to count in 2009 and 2010.
2008 is probably not fair to Boog, since many of those guys above him had more PAs – - of course, his batting (-8.5) was so bad that it overcame his base-running and fielding value (+5.6 combined), so it’s not like more playing time at the level that he was playing would have actually helped. To be fair, his 2008 numbers are also polluted by playing 40%ish of his games at 2B and 3B.
I didn’t include 2007 (which was a solid offensive season in 199 PA) because he played only 37% of his defensive innings at SS.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
what?
I don’t think you can use raw WAR that way. . .
when comparing among one position only, because so much WAR is baked into the numbers just because of positional adjustments.
not getting sassy. i genuinely don’t know what you’re saying
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Ok
Even using the rule of thumb that the average MLB player is 2 WAR, it doesn’t follow that the average SS is 2 WAR.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 7:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that's the idea behind positional adjustments
it may not play out that way perfectly in practice, but that’s the theory behind it
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
No, but I'm not aware of any particular pattern of there being lots of excellent shortstops in the majors over the last 4 years
if anything I’d say it’s been quite a weak position league-wide.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryan basically hasn't been a full-time player for most of that period
of course if you’re comparing him to a bunch of guys who’ve all had as many or more PAs than he has, he’s going to be at a huge disadvantage. He only averages 327 PA/season over that period, obviously his gross WAR figures are going to be severely depressed by that. It borders on the disingenuous.
Of course, you could claim that his very status as a part-time player in that time is a black mark against him (as it shows that perhaps he’s been injured too much and his manager hasn’t had the confidence to perhaps use him in all situations) but it can’t really be held against him in terms of the WAR he’s produced.
A fairer way to do it would be to score all qualifying SS on WAR/PA. As far as I’m aware, there hasn’t especially been a glut of extraordinary shortstops in the last 4 years, so a guy averaging over 2.7 WAR per 600 PAs will be well above average for the position, as well.
Also, this is factually incorrect:
2008 is probably not fair to Boog, since many of those guys above him had more PAs – – of course, his batting (-8.5) was so bad that it overcame his base-running and fielding value (+5.6 combined), so it’s not like more playing time at the level that he was playing would have actually helped.
You forgot to mention he also get 7.3 runs for replacement level and 1.5 positional adjustment, making him a 0.6 WAR player over 218 PAs. Which is a 1.7 WAR player over 600 PAs (i.e. better than what Theriot’s going to put up this year).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I care
and I’ll care again tomorrow.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jun 2, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Jun 2, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
goold confirms at p-d site.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jun 2, 2011 10:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What are the 2 moves
Holliday DL than what else?
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 2, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
The Cleto thing is pretty straightforward.
1) He’s already on the 40-man roster.
2) He’s already stretched out. The club doesn’t trust Lance Lynn to go deep on three days rest and they don’t want to damage his arm. They need someone in the pen that can come in after Lynn and take over for 2-3 innings. Our bullpen has been used pretty heavily of late and TLR continues to use Batista like he’s a real reliever rather than a mopup guy.
3) They don’t want to jerk Boggs around again.
This isn’t a showcase promotion. (I don’t think clubs EVER do showcase promotions — that’s a fan myth.)
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
I'm sure that you're right.
It’s just really odd to see a kid snatched off the AA roster like that.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Rockies did it last week with Juan Nicasio
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
Okay, it's odd for the Cardinals.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm certainly not read to call this a prediction. . .
but Shelby Miller skipping Memphis altogether would not surprise me at this point.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
You know more about that world than I do.
So I defer to you on that.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure
but would you predict that he skips AA and makes his first start in the majors at mid-season?
I would think that if he’s skipping AAA, he’ll do it by making the team out of spring training, much like McClellan did, only Miller would start in the rotation.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
sorry
Should read “skips AAA”.
To answer my own question: I don’t think there’s any way Miller skips AAA. With all the starters we have returning next season it would be silly for the club to promote him out of spring training to the rotation and make him a near certain Super 2 player when they could send him to Memphis for a couple of months (10 starts) and then call him up the first week of June.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
who are all the starters we have returning next season?
Carp and Waino each have options for next year and probably will be back, but no guarantees. Beyond that, there’s Garcia, Lohse, and McClellan.
FWIW, barring an unbelievable ST, I agree that he’ll start in Memphis because of the arby’s clock. I just don’t see a ton of starting pitching that would be holding up his promotion.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
garcia is the only one under contract in 2013.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
oh and wainwright who needs to have that option picked up i believe?
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
FWIW,
the Cards haven’t really had to face the question of whether or not to start a top prospect’s arby clock early. Pujols was so long ago that it isn’t really applicable, and he didn’t have the hype that Miller will have. It will be an interesting test of their fiscal resolve, because their fan base expects the Cards to: (A) be a playoff/World Championship contender every year, and (B) spend certain levels of money to that end.
If Pujols walks and Miller is so lights out in 2012 spring training that he appears to be one of hte top 3 starters in the organization, the arby clock excuse (and it of course is not just an excuse – it’s real money) will not play well on sports talk radio or among the Cards’ bourgeoise.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Colby is a more recent example
The Cards could have left him in AAA for a month to control him longer (2015 instead of 2014), but chose not to piss him off, since they took care of pissing him off after ST 2008. Colby is set to be a FA entering into his age 30 season.
I wonder if it might not be a factor
aren’t they re-working the CBA at the end of this year? So many guys (Longoria being a prime example) in recent years have been screwed out of arby one year early by clock shenanigans that I’m sure the MLBPA will be in favour of changing that loophole.
Of course, it depends how keen they are to improve the lot of young, pre-FA players – IIRC in the past the MLBPA have been more concerned about the financial wellbeing of vets.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
depends on contraction and the DH
contraction will be a tough pill for MLBPA to swallow, giving up 50 jobs. Strauss had a comment yesterday that rosters could be expanded to 27 to counter the elimination of two teams. Just think about what Tony could do with a 10 man bullpen.
Yeah
Chicago only needs one team anyway.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly don't see Carp coming back
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
me neither
i has a sad
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
What about as a closer?
Carp = Smoltz
Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: The Riot 6, Rasmus 8, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, Berkman 9, Craig/Punto 4, Molina 2, DD/Lil Carp 5, pitcher (Get well soon, Mr. Freese)
expensive closer
why not just sign Bell if we’re going to pay a closer $10m….
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
he'll have to be cheap
i mean really cheap like $6M
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
heh. Why not just keep him as a starter?
Why do we need a closer anyway?
This all makes zero sense.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
assigning a closer role just means we won’t use our best reliever in the 7th when we need him most.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
The latter.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
I think in 2007 or 2008 you might have been right.
I’m not so sure about this happening in 2012 though, for the reasons I pointed out above.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Super 2 only applies if you think he's not going to be in the majors for a full year.
I think the opportunity will be there for Miller to push someone like McClellan back to the pen. Your reasons don’t dissuade me that there’s a real scenario where it could happen.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
Also,
there seems to be rumblings about a (likely) change in the new CBA regarding super 2 status.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Drooool....
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
you mean this season
or start next season with st louis?
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
i keep saying things that have already been said
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
I'd be REALLY surprised
given how slow and careful they’ve taken it with him so far. I think we probably don’t see him in MLB until a good way through 2012. What makes you think they might suddenly start to rush him through the high minors?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, no showcase promotions
showcase starts. . . maybe, but no showcase promotions
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
what do you call the pete kozma promotion?
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
desperation.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
by tom s. on Jun 2, 2011 11:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly.
Look at the 40 man roster people. They are constrained by a somewhat odd 40 man configuration. They had no other options for IF help because of Freese’s injury. We have several players on the DL. At the time it was Punto, Freese, and Schu.
by CardFaninTTown on Jun 2, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
still one open slot on the 40 man roster
The other problem is Reifer and Samuel are DL’d but can’t be put on the 60 day DL because they would start earning MLB salaries. That’s two spots that aren’t available.
When you spell it out like that, it does make a lot of sense....
….if you completely factor out the utter ridiculousness of the Boggs move at this point in the season.
I know starters have more value than relievers to a club, but it really seems silly to do this at a time when the current club needs a lot of help in the bullpen.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'd rather have Boggs as a backup starter than a middle reliever
Most of our bullpen problems have been due to poor timing (Batista and Franklin being used in high leverage situations). Our pen has a 3.44 ERA, 3.78 FIP, 4.12 xFIP this year. Not great, but right around the middle of the pack. The ERA is very good, implying that we should not have nearly as many blown saves as we do.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
DO you really think our starters continue to be this good, though?
Guys like Lohse and, to a lesser extent, KMac and Garcia have been putting up IP totals that’re way ahead of what they’ve done before or what you’d project in future.
This means more IP in the next 4 months by the rest of the pen. Which means Frankentista and the Lefties of Doom.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Well that's the issue
If our starters start to falter, or get injured, a backup is more valuable.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
not sure you can lump the two together
if our starter start to falter (which they will) and pitch fewer innings and go less deep, a bullpen guy is more valuable. If they get injured, a backup is more valuable. That said, I don’t think there’s much to choose between Boggs and Lynn as 6th starters – I’m guessing they project as a similar 1-WAR-ish pitcher as a SP at the moment.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 3, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Saw a girl/woman in a green shirt with a big camera behind the cards dugout during Craig's curtain call
any chance that was d-dee?
no, i was behind the giants dugout
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
I was by the Giants bullpen
but I don’t have a fancy camera. Also I’ll send you those pics tonight after I get home
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jun 2, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess you didn't like me enough the other night
to wave and say hey d-dee what’s up
mmmhm…
no second date for me
no soup for you!
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
wait til you see what's in the pictures he's sending
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
if i get brett favre'd
i’m photoshopping it 4 times smaller and hanging the pictures all over st louis
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
Just fredbird beaking you.
I was on the other side of the lens the entire time.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jun 2, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't know you were at the game
Or I would’ve called you up.
Speaking of second dates the girl I was with probably won’t make it past a 2nd date. The more I’ve hung out with her the more I feel like I’m just hanging out with the guys.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jun 2, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
where's the problem with that?
unless she doesn’t put out of course
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
She's cool but just not feeling it with her
We will probably hang out. Maybe we hook up some maybe not.
Its big city and plenty of other women are around.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jun 2, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
and plenty of std's
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
yeah she threw some statistic like 1 in 4 in StL has something
Or maybe it was some neighborhood. I’m not sure. Safety first
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Jun 2, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I was really surprised by the cenus numbers on how many single people there are in Saint Louis.
My single friends of both genders (not meaning the bobo style) are constantly complaining about meeting people. Of course, they all seem to have lots of sex, too, so maybe they’re just complainers.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
I don't know, but their constant complaining helps explain why they're single.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Malcontents!!!
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i meant lynn's fastball and breaking stuff, cleto's fastball & breaking stuff (if he has any)
don’t know much about either of them.
lynn will sit 91-94
cleto will sit 95-98
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
cleto has an improving slider
he has an iffy change up
and a curveball?
Lynn has a sinking fastball, but i think with the velocity increase his FB lost a lot of natural sink.
Lynn also has a ok slider and change that he mixes in from time to time.
Lynn needs to keep the ball down (21 HRs last year) which he’s been more effective at so far (only one HR allowed this year).
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Lynn's groundball rate is exactly the same this year as last
so I think if anything he’s just been a bit more lucky on HR/FB (8% last year, 1% this year, both of which are below-average for Memphis).
His K/BB rate is improved very slightly but really I think he hasn’t improved a great deal at AAA. It’ll be interesting to see how he gets on in the majors but I’d have thought he’ll really struggle on 3 days rest. Hopefully he gets by through 4 innings with some smoke and mirrors….
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
CodyG and I had a very similar conversation on Twitter last night.
Actually, it was me asking CodyG for stats and him having them at his fingertips. I contributed nothing of substance.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure you brought some style.
Style over substance, I say!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I realize the luck factor
I just have no idea if AIR is the same thing as a FB on the First Inning site because he had an 8% HR/AIR last year and he still allowed 21 HRs over 160 IP which sounds like a lot for someone who has a league averageish 44% GB rate.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
ah, that makes sense
HR/AIR is an imperfect stat then. Including IFFB in a HR-luck stat is stupid (although it probably doesn’t actually vary hugely from one pitcher to the next).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
If we knew what the league average for AIR/HR the stat would
be more practical.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
according to statcorner,
MLB average is 6.5%
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
ok
I checked Statcorner as well and lynn justs blows everyone else away with his 1% so he was probably going to regress quite a bit.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
yes but also he was therefore maybe a touch unlucky last year
a 4.2ish FIP isn’t that bad for the MWL. Probably translates to a 4.4ish FIP in the bigs if the guy’s skillset doesn’t have any major holes, which I think is maybe the case with Lynn. Basically good 5th starter material. I just don’t think he has masses of upside over that.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
3rd starter potential IMO if he can learn to get GB again.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
not on a contending team
3rd starter in that a 3rd starter should be an average starter and league average WAR is 2. I just don’t see him doing better than that.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
yep, I was thinking the exact same thing, heh
some of the stats on FI do not agree very well with some of the other sites (they seem to use a different algorithm for FIP, which is a little off-putting; not sure if they don’t league and park-adjust it, although that makes little sense and Lynn plays in a good hitting environment and has a HIGHER FIP on FI). All that said, let’s just say that Lynn’s 2010 (4.43 FIP) is closer to his luck-neutral level at AAA than his 2011 (2.78 FIP), although he has apparently improved ever-so-slightly between the two years (velo, K/BB ratio).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmmm. . .
MLB debut adrenaline rush trumps short rest?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Great info from Goold on both Lynn and Cleto
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Goold said Lynn is 6"2
i could’ve swore he was 6’5-6’6 (not important)
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
sweet!!, i love correcting people.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
and he fixed it!
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Tell him
the Cards traded for Cleto with the Mariners not the Marines.
Eventually, as shortstops started scattering around the league, the Marines met the Cardinals price and shipped righty Maikel Cleto to them for the slick infielder.
Apparently their initial approach on Alex Fritz was turned down.
Cleto was a reasonable 2nd prize.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
He's a good-sized lad by any measure.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a really nice write-up about Cleto.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Dyar Miller is awesome.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
Missing from the kit:
One brown paper bag. For all the hyperventilating.
...and his name was Eduardo Sanchez, and the name of his slider was Death -DanUp
by The Continental on Jun 2, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
it was so shocking (not) that even the giants fan next to me called it
accompanied by the sentence “i don’t even know why he’s in the bigs”
i had to concur
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
the worst part was that pitch was clearly a ball. he really had to reach down for it.
at least if he had swung at a strike it would have been better. i don’t know why, but it would have been.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
um, i had no idea he was this good
On May 18, Cleto walked three and allowed three runs (all unearned) against six strikeouts in six innings. During that game, the opposing team’s gun clocked Cleto at 102 mph and had him eclipse 100 mph at least a dozen times. The Cardinals’ gun was more conservative. It had him top out at 101 mph.
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
still rehabbing
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Yeah, I was wondering why people were against his call up.
I’m really excited to see what he can do. Replace Franktista with he and Boggs and it’d be a really exciting bullpen.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
I just want to see him stick as a starter
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
We don't like exciting bullpens around these parts.
We like our bullpens boring, which means proven and old.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
we're are simple folk. We like our cars fast and our bullpens old and ineffective.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
i just think it's too soon
and if he doesn’t crash and burn against big league hitters once they have some video on him, i’d be pleasantly surprised
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
After years of complaining about retreads being brought in rather than prospects, I'm not about to start complaining.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Jun 2, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah
we have tony cruz, eduardo sanchez, daniel descalso and maikel cleto on the roster with salas closing out games
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
That K from Sanchez last night (can't remember who it was against - a lefty) on a raking slider
was sick.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
that guy’s swing is fucking appalling. I don’t know where he’s been coached but whoever’s been involved should be ashamed.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
F@*&ing TLR
and his hate for young guys.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
Who was actually complaining?
I was just confused by bringing a guy straight from AA to MLB. It’s not like that’s a normal move for this organization.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.futureredbirds.net/2011/06/02/maikel-cleto-called-up-from-aa/
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
thanks. I hadn't made over there yet today.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm excited to see both Lynn and Cleto
wish it could be under different circumstances, but it is nice to see guys get promoted instead of being traded by Uncle Walt for journeymen….
"You made me live a lie, Tony," Paquette says, "and it ends this morning. Not everybody can play second base."
I started paying more attention to Cleto after some of his lines got posted here.
Mainly due to his decreased walk rate. Cleto seems to have some potential.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
so of course THIS game isn't gonna be on TV
in Chicagoland. DAMMIT.
MLB network tonight...
if you get it.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
hey no problem.
i only know because i saw it scrolled across the out of town scoreboard at busch last night.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't think
this has been posted yet. linked from goold’s nice scouting report
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Does anyone know what kind of pitching rotation Springfield might have?
I see Shelby is starting tomorrow night in Corpus Christi, was just wondering when he might pitch at home.
Speaking of Shelby starting tomorrow for Springfield...
That game is slated to be on MiLB.TV.
I would expect him to start on 6/8 or one of the doubleheader games on 6/9. There’s an off-day on 6/7 so it depends on how they handle that.
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh good lord
I just got the “Springfield will change their name to Shelbyville” joke.
Can they marry their cousins over there?
I thought that was the whole point.
The very symbol, the outward and visible expression of the drive, and push, and rush and struggle of the raging, tearing, booming nineteenth century! -- Mark Twain
Ryan Franklin should never be in another MLB game.
yeah, well, that's just like, my opinion, man
by sociopath on Jun 2, 2011 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
ryan franklin should not pitch more than one inning in another mlb game
miguel batista should never be in another mlb game
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
by d-dee on Jun 2, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'd be more than happy with both in them pitching in many, many more MLB games for another team.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
someone call jocketty
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
do the brewers need any pitching "help"
I’d love for him to go there. I’m not as worried about the Reds
"I don't trust anybody in the media, and I don't listen to them."
—Albert Pujols
we all know that since he
found a few good innings he’ll be pitching more…last nigth was just bad luck
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
So why is a guy like Cleto on the 40 man?
1. He was traded for a major leaguer
2. The org has THAT much regard for him
3. The Mariners had him on their 40 man, and the rights transfer or something?
4. Randomness on the part of Mo
Or am I missing something?
two things...
1. i’m probably way nextdef’d, but can anyone explain to me why we’re throwing lynn tonight on three days rest? i know jaime could use the extra day off after his start on saturday, but i would think a guy making his major league debut would need regular rest more than jaime would need an extra day. they should have thrown jaime tonight with lynn tomorrow night and lohse on saturday.
2. with holliday out, what’s your optimal starting lineup right now, keeping tony in mind. for example, theriot has to be included, because theriot will be included. the order is up to you though…
vs righties
theriot
jay
pujols
rasmus
berkman
craig 4
molina
descalso
vs lefties
theriot
jay
pujols
craig 4
rasmus
berkman
molina
descalso
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 2:43 PM EDT reply actions
There is no evidence as far as I'm aware that one less day of rest has any effect on performance.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
is there any way to look this up?
Cause I don’t buy that. In the modern era it seems to me starters on 3 days’ rest usually pitch poorly. It comes up a lot in the playoffs so maybe there’s some selection bias there (better hitters).
"You made me live a lie, Tony," Paquette says, "and it ends this morning. Not everybody can play second base."
I read this in Baseball Between The Numbers
There was the smallest difference in ERA that it’s not significant to say three days rest is any worse.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Tell that to the guys from the 60's & early 70's
four man rotation was the norm until the early 70’s. Here’s a 2002 Baseball prospectus article on the five man rotation
LINK
i think the consensus is that throwing lynn now
sets up jaime, lohse, and carpenter to go this weekend against the cubs.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
yeah my buddy alerted me to this fact.
but that’s dumb. the giants are a better team.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
something about intradivision games being more important?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
have you seen their lineup?
Serously, they have four major league hitters in their lineup. . . Aubrey Huff bats cleanup for them.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
someone mentioned upstream
pushing lynn up for this start allows them to go with a four man rotation with the rest of the guys for the next couple of series
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
how?
we’ll need a fifth starter on the 11th, which is before k-mac is eligible to come off the DL.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, that's not right.
But it does set everyone (Lance included) to be back on four days rest starting Tuesday.
I wish Lance didn’t have to go on short rest, but Jaime could probably really use the extra day right now. Of course, our bullpen could REALLY use a rest right now, too, so hopefully Lance can get 7 or so innings, short rest be damned.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
well, that's also why cleto was called up. to handle the extra innings if/when lynn needs it.
and i still think lynn needs regular rest more jaime needs the extra day. what’s wrong with going:
jaime
lynn
lohse
carpenter
OFF DAY
westbrook (extra day rest)
jaime (extra day of rest—so he still gets his extra day, just a start later)
lohse (skip lynn)
carpenter
lynn
westbrook
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
i would just think the coaching staff...
would give lynn everything he needs to maximize his chances for success tonight. throwing him on short rest is not achieving that, especially when it presents almost no benefit.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps they just see his ceiling as marginal 5th starter
Therefore they’re going to get him in whenever it’s best for the MLB club, and not necessarily for Lynn’s personal development since they may not see him as a future regular.
but it doesn't present any value for the club above giving jaime/lohse the extra day.
which they would have gotten anyway, just later on.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Less time for him to sit around and get anxious?
Off the bus and onto the mound!
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
i can sort of get behind this.
but i still think it’d be good for him to experience a game first. but maybe a friday night start against the cubs isn’t the best first game experience either.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be surprised if he starts tonight and is back in Memphis
by tomorrow afternoon.
They may want a bench bat with some pop for the weekend (Hamilton).
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
but then who starts the 11th?
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
there are so many stranger things going on with our roster management
that I just can’t get worked up about Lynn going on three days rest.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
i'm not worked up at all
at least not like other people are. i’m excited in a positive way
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Could be Batista
depending on how much work the bullpen gets over these upcoming few series.
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Lynn will be so pumped
that he might be more effective with less rest. I think the coaches are doing the right thing protecting Garcia. Jaime will be in the rotation post all star break while Lynn will be back in Memphis.
because the worst case scenario is pretty bad
two guys making their major league debut, one on short rest, the other skipping a level after a handful of AA starts. What could go wrong?
It’s only one game, but still…
"You made me live a lie, Tony," Paquette says, "and it ends this morning. Not everybody can play second base."
right, but we can't do anything about it.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
other than starting Jaime tonight on his regular day....
"You made me live a lie, Tony," Paquette says, "and it ends this morning. Not everybody can play second base."
no, I'm saying you or I or anyone on here.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
I don't know
I’m just regurgitating what I read
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
damn. i thought today was a day game.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
thank god you're wrong, i'm sick of weekday games.
we’re done with those (at least at home) until school starts up again in september.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
between now and august 24th, we have three weekday games, all on the road.
and one of them is the traditional 1:20 friday game against the cubs on 8-21. the others are a 1:10 game @milwaukee on on 8-3 and 11:10 (!) games against the mets on 7-21.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It's freaking shocking
that tomorrow’s Cubs game is at night. Those Friday games almost always seem to be day games, forcing me to miss them due to work.
well, it's at busch.
friday games are always 7:15 at busch, cubs or not. and it’s literally illegal for the cubs to play a night game on friday in chicago, so they never do.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. the original idea was to bait the robot, but he didn't come through.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
what does it even say?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It looks like "Roney."
But it actually says “D-Money” written with Microsoft Paint spray-paint.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
Well, not with 100% certainty.
I suppose you could’ve used another piece of software.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
I see "Romney"
so I’m flagging all of his posts as politics.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jun 2, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Glenn Romney, one of the finest in all of the Dutch Major Leagues!
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
what's a d-money?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
descalso's nickname that az has grown to detest.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
it's better than Descalsho
but i still dislike both of them.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
no that's my favorite.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Dirty Dan?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
no thanks.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
TLR's nickname for Descalso.
at least that’s what gas house graphs said.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
never heard of it.
And I think I was a reasonable fan of his in the minors.
I quite like Double-D and Dirty Dan myself, mainly because they sound like really crappy wrestling names.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
You and Y2S and PJ
could at least be considerate and go back to the old avatar after screwing with me.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
O ya
That tranny with a fish should go back too.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
I'm looking for a new permanent avatar.
this is my temp for now.
the old one has A.D.A.M. and this guy named Ryan.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I used this for the Fish Stripes excursion.
it being a fish.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
alright.
only because you were indirectly nice to me in the thread the other day.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
so long, roney. we hardly knew ye.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jun 2, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, tied for the lead...in all of baseball actually...
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
WTF????
I seriously thought he’d retired about 3 years ago. No idea he was still in baseball in any way!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Picked up the win this afternoon in relief.
He’s doing OK in very limited exposure.
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
peripherals look very mop-up-guy-ish
which I suppose is what you’d expect at this point in his career. Actually, looking back, he was only really good for a couple of years. Seemed he got by on luck & some smoke & mirrors even in a couple of the years I remember him being decent (2007, 2005).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
reasons why holds/saves are stupid.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
smart people
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
I don't think they're stupid.
They are a stat that describes something. They’re not as arbitrary as (say) W/L, at least.
They’re no good for predicting performance, or even describing how well someone has performed in most respects, but that’s not the same as being stupid. People like narratives, SV/holds plays into that, and who are we to question the wisdom of the great unwashed?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Atlanta RP
Johnny Venters has a 83% GB rate this year, he now has a career 77% over 117 IP.
/twitter repost
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
theriot
jay 9
pujols
craig 7
molina
rasmus
greene 4
cruz 5
http://twitter.com/#!/micklite7/status/76376478320820225
…okay
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:57 PM EDT reply actions
TONY CRUZ AT THIRD?
TYLER GREENE
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
berkman could really use the day off.
and cruz was drafted as a third baseman. this doesn’t bother me QUITE as much as it probably should, but i really disapprove of molina batting fifth in front of rasmus, lefty or not.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, but I just can't remember the last time TLR allowed the backup catcher
to play in a game with yadi.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
I'll admit i didn't watch that game
and I’m happy i didn’t.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
ran out of RH's
Berkman could use a day off, Dirty Dan and Schu are lefties and then there is Kozma.
Cruz has played at third before
so it will be interesting.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Lynn is like "pretty sure I had a better defense at Memphis".
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
it's actually probably one of our better defensive lineups.
no skip, no craig at second, no berkman in right.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably true as long as Tyler doesn't get any pop-ups.
And no one hits it to the left side of the infield.
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
At least there's no Skip
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Giants lineup.
Torres 8, Tejada 5, F. Sanchez 4, Huff 3, Schierholtz 9, Ross 7, Crawford 6, Whiteside 2, J. Sanchez 1
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
i repeat:
NO ONE IN THAT LINEUP IS CURRENTLY HITTING .300
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
But most of them have contributed to putting up 17 runs this series.
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Things that make you say 'Sonofabitch'.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
ladies and gentlemen
Tony La Russa
"You made me live a lie, Tony," Paquette says, "and it ends this morning. Not everybody can play second base."
i would rather see
cruz catching, yadi at first and pujols at third
no idea how this is a good idea, but i suppose we’ll see
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
but then you're playing three guys out of position instead of 0.5.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
that's one kind of logic
it’s definitely not math, though. i’m playing cruz, the catcher at catcher. i’m playing yadi the catcher at first base, which is 75% stand there and catch the ball. and i’m playing albert, who has proven his ability to play 3B at 3B
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
but looking now
cruz has played almost at 3B as much as at C, so it’s not that crazy
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
anybody can play 3B?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
why though?
molina at C > cruz at C
pujols at 1B > molina at 1B
cruz at 3B > pujols at 3B
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
how can you claim to know anything about cruz' defense at third?
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
okay fine, i'm assuming.
but he’s got way more experience at third recently than albert does.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
he's played about 90 innings there in the last 4 years
that’s not way more experience than anyone
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
67% of fang's argument is valid
33% is a guess. For the guess part though go into the mind of the genius.
Let’s see put a 31 yr old ankle limping gold glove 1B at 3B or put a 25 yr old catcher who played 3B regularly just three years ago at 3B.Tony’s a genius on this one.
where do you see that he played it regularly?
b-r shows the last time he played more than 2 games was in ‘07. they don’t have innings played, only games and chances. based on chances, i’d estimate, he’s played less than 250 there in the last 4 years
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
it's not as out of the blue as i initially thought
but i don’t think we have any place to be saying how good he is
now that i know he’s at least stood at third base before, i’m as comfortable with the idea as i was with craig at 2B. we’ll see how it goes
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Again though why move two gold golves
For the two or maybe three chances at 3B. Greene at SS Theriot at 2B would be a better move.
to avoid having someone play a position they've never played before
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
my point
is that i didn’t know cruz had ever played 3B. i just said that knowing that he has pro experience there, i’m okay with it
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
well shut the hell up about it then, you massive girl!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you know he's massive?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I was referring to the size of his penis
which, given the denouement of my insult, has a certain irony to it.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
why weaken three defensive positions
Cruz was drafted as a 3B in 2007. From the mothership draft results
Arnoldi A Cruz R/R 5’11" 205 1986-08-18 26 3B 06/12/2007
maybe they will change positions throughout the game
kind of like they are playing T-ball.
"I don't trust anybody in the media, and I don't listen to them."
—Albert Pujols
by Hootie Who on Jun 2, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
molina in front of rasmus is the biggest travesty in this lineup full of travesties
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Yadi can't GIDP Colby this way
and there is a lefty on the mound. Colby is better against RHP
career stats
v RHP .277 .351 .472 .824 in 977 PAs
v LHP .231 .313 .377 .690 in 310 PAs
okay, but that's somewhat misleading.
in 2010, here were his splits:
v. LHP: .270 .349 .461
v. RHP: .278 .365 .510
in 2011:
v. LHP: .288 .406 .442
v. RHP: .272 .367 .435
so his career numbers are brought down based solely on a very bad 106 ABs in his rookie season. i think his 2010/2011 numbers are much closer to his true talent, especially given that he hit lefties well throughout the minors.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
this
plus there was no real split in his MILB numbers between handedness of the pitcher.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
I agree
also, he had no significant lefty/righty platoon split in the minor leagues.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus, his minor league numbers showed no significant platoon split.
So there’s that.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
A ball and lower yes
minor league splits
Career wise, Colby has solid splits. If you look at AA, the splits are more pronounced. In his first two years, Colby actually hit LHP better than RHP.
Split AB AVG OBP SLG OPS
05 vs. LH 59 .305 .354 .525 .879
05 vs. RH 157 .293 .365 .510 .875
06 vs. LH 129 .310 .390 .519 .909
06vs. RH 371 .278 .352 .447 .799
The last two years of minor league ball were
07 vs. LH 124 .250 .379 .460 .839
07 vs. RH 381 .286 .381 .577 .958
08 vs. LH 102 .255 .347 .353 .700
08 vs. RH 228 .250 .347 .417 .764
Looks like one year - '07 - with a negative split against LHP.
’08 showed diminished power numbers against LHP, but AVG and OBP were the same.
No the joke was that IHB mentioned that there wasn’t a significant split in the minors. Then Cody brought it up as if she hadn’t mentioned it. It sort of snow-balled from there.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
The label was attached to Colby
that he couldn’t hit LHP in 2009. All the numbers are SSS. 2008 numbers need to be taken with a a grain of salt because that was the year he injured his knee and was out for half of June and all of July/Aug.
Tonight, I’d rather have Rasmus after Molina to prevent the GIDP. Plus TGreene offers him protection.
In addition
if you look at his numbers from the pre-MLB levels of professional baseball, his abilities to hit pitchers of both sides of handedness are largely indistinguishable.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, rasmus can hit LHP just as good as RHP.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Agreed.
Although, Yadi has been hitting well. Maybe we should move Yadi and Rasmus up and shift Pujols down the sixth.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah.
I bet Pujols would feel really disrespected to boot. It seems that Theriot, Pujols, Holliday, and Berkman are now locked in, beyond the manager’s lineup shuffling. One of those is not like the others.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah.
molina hitting fifth over colby was about the only thing that really bothered me.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
i like this lineup
obviously in the minority, but it’s playing the splits vs a tough lefty with a regular split as well as possible (Sanchez 3.46 xFIP vs LHB, 4.28 vs RHB career), and I really like playing the splits. Also, it’s defensively pretty good. I guess in an ideal world Berkman would start over Jay in the OF but Berk’s not great vs LHP either (career 105 wRC+, so assuming he’s slightly past his best, he’s an average hitter AT BEST against LHP) and Jay is far superior in the field which might more or less close that gap.
Greene is obviously a better choice at 2B vs LHP than Skip, given Greene’s probably a better hitter against lefties and definitely a better glove (he’s also better than Kozma, who I guess is the other option). Whether Cruz is still vaguely competent at 3B I don’t know, but Descalso probably also deserves a day off against a tough lefty and Cruz is quite probably a better hitter against lefties than Dirty Dan.
Overall, I can’t see a better lineup for this particular start against the guy who’s on the mound. You can argue the toss for Berkman vs Jay and Descalso vs Cruz but neither option makes a big difference either way, and with the depleted roster (Mo’s fault, not TLR’s) this doesn’t look bad to me.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Greene should be playing SS.
just saying
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
yes, thats probably true
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
who're we facing?
I’m guessing Sanchez? Must be a lefty with significant splits?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
this was lacking in cow puns
i’m dissappointed and a little disorientated
Has your mother sold her Marlins?
exactly
even a random moo in there would have been acceptable
Fixed
Chone Figgins is MOOO! OPS ing .488 this MOOO! year. MOOO!
That is all. Moo?
"I don't trust anybody in the media, and I don't listen to them."
—Albert Pujols
or
a .488 OPS? i BOVINE that hard to believe!
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jun 2, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
hm. how about
chone figgins is OPS ing .488. he’s RUMENing his chances at another big COWtract!
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Jun 2, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
sometimes i go back and read some of the arguments
in favor of signing figgins over holliday when i’m feeling blue. always good for a pick me up
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
don't look at me
I was saying adrian beltre
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
and when that was shot down by the hivemind i said we should sign a back up third baseman
like Joe Crede, and the hivemind said we had young healthy stud David Freese.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
You mean the Joe Crede who hasn't played since 2009?
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
because no one signed him.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
my point back then was, we should've signed a backup option for freese.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
That makes sense, as long as Joe Crede wasn't the hypothetical past solution.
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 2, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean Crede wasn't bad in '09 (1.8 WAR with good defense in 90 games)
When we signed Felipe I stopped the Crede talk because of his good 09 and cheap contract.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
his bat was teetering over a precipice in 2009
and nearly all his value for a couple of years had been in the field. He also had a pretty chronic back problem IIRC. Wouldn’t have been crazy for a couple of mill, perhaps, but I get the feeling he was reaching the end of his usefulness as a major league player. If you look at his last couple of seasons pre-2010, they look mighty similar to Pedro Feliz’s.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
how about those saying sign bay over holliday?
signing matt holliday was, is, and will always be the correct move.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
hey remember when that genius correctly predicted the ludwick 3-way trade with the padres?
good times.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
my friend literally said that holliday was a "bum"
i still have that email
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
yeah, those 6 WAR players, who needs 'em?
bums.
D-MONEY
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
My brother talked a lot of trash about Holliday, too.
People are dumb.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
I don't recall ANYONE here wanting Bay over Holliday
maybe elsewhere, but even in the mainstream media I don’t think there was any great desire for Bay.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Strauss claimed that SABR people wanted Figgins over Holliday.
Which is fucking ludicrous.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
Of course he does.
Ya know, because Matt Holliday is not an ideal SABR player or anything. Neither is Berkman. Strauss is dishonest and mean. Quite a sad individual.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
some people did
you could argue (and quite a few did at the time, with, I’d say, reasonable veracity) that 4 years/36m for Figgins (who’d averaged about 3.5 WAR/yr in the previous 6 seasons as an MLB regular, and had some positional flexibility) was probably a better deal than 7/120 for Holliday (who’d averaged about 5.3 WAR in his 5 full years as an MLB regular), even though Figgy was 2 years older.
I don’t think he was being disingenuous in suggesting that SABR people identified Figgins as being probably largely under-valued in that contract year, and maybe suggesting that the Cards needed a guy at 2B/3B and a leadoff hitter. He WAS probably being a prick, however.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
There were surely some that wanted Figgins, but it was hardly everyone.
He’s definitely being a prick, though. Many more people wanted Matt Holliday.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
Yeah
I was hoping we’d keep Holliday, although I still think we overpaid. In hindsight the deal’s looking beter and better, but even if he stays 100% healthy and ages better than expectations, we’re not going to get massive surplus value out of it.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Same way everyone casts the Vernon Wells contract as like one of the worst in history when it was signed
it was a poor deal, but they had no way of knowing he was going to fall off a cliff in the way he did. At the time it looked like they’d make a small value loss out of it. Hindsight is always 20:20 :-)
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Felipe Lopez at $1M was also a great signing at the time,
it just could not have been predicted that he was just going to be so awful and douchy.
Also, the Kyle Lohse contract part II would have been a decent one (low, low upside, we pretty much hit the maximum downside) if not for two freak injuries.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
he was alright before being miscast as the starting third baseman.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
before his pitching injury
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
yep
and he DID put up 0.3 WAR before being dumped, which (if we’re being technical about it) is worth a touch more than we paid him.
I’m still not convinced about Lohse part 2. I think it’s in the Wells league, actually – paying for (close to) a player’s one-year peak value, over the risky period of a long-term deal. We were paying him to be slightly above-average every year of that deal, which he’d admittedly done 4 years out of 7, but as you say even if he’d pitched like his career year 2008 going forward, only regressed slightly into his 30s, AND never got injured, we’d still only have made a little bit of surplus value (say 10-15m over 4 years).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
But that doesn't support his broad generalizations!
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
My favourite option at the time IIRC
was to let Holliday walk for the draft picks, then to spread the money out between signing Carl Pavano to a couple of years deal (good idea), Jack Cust to play LF vs RHP, and letting Craig play vs RHP (probably pretty bad idea), and acquiring Russell Branyan to play 3B (probably a decent idea), perhaps in a platoon with Freese. I think there was some other limited-but-talented bargain basement guy I was keen on at the time as well.
Actually, I thought this idea was going to sound stupid in retrospect but when I look at what those three guys put up in 2010 (7.2 WAR) for a little over $11m (total!), doing that doesn’t seem like such a crazy idea. We’d also have two more picks near the top of an absolutely stacked 2011 draft class, and another $6m to spend on a second baseman last year (Orlando Hudson, who puts my not-Holliday acquisitions up to 10.6 WAR. For the same price as Holliday and no long-term commitments).
Cliff notes – I fucking rule.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but that fucks with the run production in your lineup.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
yep, I think I know what you mean
you’d have to subtract the production you wouldn’t get from the other guys you didn’t start for those new additions?
But in that case you don’t have Holliday in LF (so Cust/Craig are only taking his PAs), Freese gets most of Branyan’s PAs vs LHP and we don’t sign Feliz (so we lose some of Freese’s 1.5 WAR but also don’t lose 0.5 WAR from Pedro Feliz sucking).
Hudson gets pretty much all the PA at 2B (which was a completely replacement-level position for us anyhow; maybe worth 0.3 WAR if you include Felipe Lopez, who we wouldn’t sign), and Pavano replaces the innings by Suppan/Penny/Walters/Ottavino/Hawk (who put up 0.9 WAR between them). I’m assuming here we still trade for Westy once Lohse gets injured.
So in my world, my acquisitions gain 10.6 WAR (assuming they had exactly the same year, and not including the ability to protect Branyan & Cust against lefties and protect Craig & Freese against some righties, which is probably worth a bit more value), and we lose something like 7.5 WAR from the guys we didn’t sign and those who didn’t play as much. Still a gain of a good 3 wins (which puts us closer to the Reds but perhaps not quite over the top), some extra draft picks and keeps us away from Matt Holliday’s age 36 and 37 seasons.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
sort of what i meant.
but also from other effects that having holliday puts on your lineup. with your imaginary 2010 team, the cardinals don’t have another 5-6 WAR bat in their lineup, and the only that comes remotely close is colby rasmus. that is going to screw with how your lineup produces runs, and how pitchers pitch to albert pujols (remember him, he was good at one point).
either way, your plan technically comes out on top, but who’s to say all those guys end up producing like that in a different situation, on a different team? though the thought of extra draft picks is an added bonus. regardless, anyone who is still “mad” about the holliday deal is ignorant.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
oh definitely, and i was being a bit facetious obviously
although you could argue that my team is more rounded. The pitching is definitely better, and Cust plus Branyan against RHP (.375 & .359 wOBA) matches up reasonably well against Holliday plus Freese against LHP (.399 & .349 wOBA); in fact, in terms of hitting ability, they’re not far off equal. We also don’t have to watch Feliz sucking for a couple of months.
We’d be slightly worse off vs LHP, with Holliday replaced by Craig in those situations, but over the course of the year it shouldn’t actually have affected the offense that much.
WRT how pitchers pitch to Pujols, I actually have some sympathy for that argument, although the evidence (for lineup protection) appears to be pretty much against both our general instincts on it – seems it doesn’t really exist in any proveable way.
You also have to take into account the benefit of having Orlando Hudson (.320 wOBA in 2010) taking PAs away from Skip, Miles, Greene and Lopez, none of whom broke a .300 wOBA.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
ADRIAN BELTRE
that’s all i would’ve been happy with besides Holliday.
Then i wanted freese to go to second where i assumed he could be decent there.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/06/dbacks-seek-relief-help.html
so after, cleto strikes out 13 in his 2 innings of relief tonight, we can go ahead and trade him plus theriot for stephen drew?
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
it's a link
your decision if you want to risk seeing where it goes
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
As an avowed Theriotphile*, I'd still accept this.
*Actually, The Riot is starting to wear on me a bit, but that doesn’t fit my VEB persona, so please don’t tell anyone.
Have you been to the mustard museum?
Goold with a numbers update via Twitter:
dgoold For the numerologists out there Cleto will wear No. 63 and Lynn will wear No. 62.
So we know that neither is long for St. Louis.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
okay VEB
i have a bunch of fresh trout. what do i do with it?
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
OMG GIVE IT TO ME
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh come on!
No TWSS joke on this?
2011 WAR watch: Theriot = 0.4, Boog = 0.8 as of Jun 01
Bilingual Twitter
there's the plausibility of fang
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Eat as much of it as you can and freeze the rest?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks
i mean how should i prepare it in the most delicious way possible?
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
If you have enough of it, I would probably do different recipes:
grilles, baked, fried, and broiled.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
i would just grill the damn fish with your favorite seasoning.
yum yum
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
pack it with herbs and wrap it in tin foil.
wait, I think there’s wax paper involved too. in any case, easy and tasty.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
tin foil? what is this, 1915?
Decrease runs scored? Maybe. Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
Dead Ball Era?
"Skipper, we're losing the crowd. Put it our new novelty act."
"Darn it! I already put in the circus clown!"
"Yeah, but he bunted. Clowns are only funny when they swing away!"
DO NOT BAKE WITH WAX PAPER!
Parchment paper, please.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
that's the one.
I was distracted and not in any way fixing to start kitchen fires across the internetz.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Is it whole or filets?
Filets, fry. Whole, bake.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Can we have a "thou shalt not" survival kit?
He’s only caught 25% of base stealers. Tied for ninth in the bigs. And 7 total murdered runners is 23rd!! RabbleRabblePanic.
Well, some of that is the players on the receiving end of his throws.
Sadly.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
it's true.
some of them get it, some of them don’t.
I’m still mad at that player who was practicing it between innings, then screwed it up the next inning.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
well, CS% isn't the best metric -
for catchers with a good reputation, only the best base stealers will attempt, artificially depressing caught stealings. Catcher defense is a tricky thing. Also, pitchers contribute too.
(i have no idea if the majority of SBs given up are to better baserunners or if the Cards pitching staff is particularly bad at holding runners – more diligence required)
Decrease runs scored? Maybe. Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
yep.
only 21 steals allowed, which is fifth. So you are on point: people aren’t trying.
I was thinking earlier that Yadi wasn’t quite the defender we’re used to. The steal numbers didn’t back up my hunch, but I figured I’d hit the panic button anyway.
Another interesting stat is he’s only been charged with 2 passed balls (tied for 3rd with many others). I feel like I’ve seen three times that many easily. Are they charging those as WP’s?
another wrinkle in evaluating catcher defense.
The official scorer knows that Yadi is (supposedly) an awesome defensive catcher. Ryan Franklin, who sucks, is on the mound. Ball gets by Yadi. I can see how a lot of borderline PB/WP calls fall in his favor.
(also, this is all conjecture – haven’t looked at how many WPs vs. PBs we have, and how that ratio compares to the rest of the league)
Decrease runs scored? Maybe. Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
just from watching a few games this year
i’d say he made more off-line throws than usual. That said, holding the running game is (IMO) just such a tiny part of what a catcher seems to do defensively that I don’t think it’s a massive problem if he’s getting slightly worse at throwing them out.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Coghlan is a good comp for Jon Jay?
yea/nay?
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
only asking because I asked Peter Hjort a braves fan and BTB writer
and he wasn’t very familiar with jay.
He said he could see the braves giving up decent B pitching prospects in return, which i would be fine with if they had a solid ceiling.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
one of these two are being suggested
I’d take either of them in a heartbeat IMO with Chambers in AAA to fill Jay’s role.
J.J. Hoover
Brett Oberholtzer
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
perhaps
though Coghlan’s bounced around so much (in terms of both position and production) it’s hard to get a good handle on him. His career stats (.287/.354/.418) may be a touch above what I’d expect from Jay, although it’s possible Jay’s got a better glove so overall their value might be similar-ish.
I think when push comes to shove I’d prefer Coghlan but they’re not a million miles away. Fourstick’s usually good at coming up with sensible comps, wonder if he’ll weigh in.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i made the comp in like 2 minutes but i'm really liking it so far
similar power
similar walk rate
both rely heavily on BABIP luck
both LH
both born in 1985
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
one plays in miami
the other is from miami
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Cruz at 3rd
The lineups from Busch Stadium. Only four Cards starters tonight were in the opening day lineup:
CARDINALS
1. Ryan Theriot, SS
2. Jon Jay, RF
3. Albert Pujols, 1B
4. Allen Craig, LF
5. Yadier Molina, C
6. Colby Rasmus, CF
7. Tyler Greene, 2B
8. Tony Cruz, 3B
9. Lance Lynn, P
GIANTS
1. Torres, CF
2. Tejada, 3B
3. F. Sanchez, 2B
4. Huff, 1B
5. Schierholtz, RF
6. Ross, LF
7. Crawford, SS
8. Whiteside, C
9. J. Sanchez, P
Oh, and why the hell are we promoting Cleto?
2011 WAR watch: Theriot = 0.4, Boog = 0.8 as of Jun 01
Bilingual Twitter
40 man roster
kopp
boggs
are our other options.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
no
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Did anyone in this subthread read VEB today besides Cody?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Holliday to the DL?
who’s going to start for McClellan?
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
i know this is joking
but i think so. you can see him still favoring the eye in interviews and stuff
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
What does Matt Carpenter have to do to get a fucking callup?
Now we’re playing Tony Cruz at 3B?
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
FOR FUCK SAKES
PETE KOZMA GOT A CALLUP
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
So you're telling me that MCarp needs to hit for an OPS
that is less than Matt Adams slugging %?
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
That's not at all what i said.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
So Matt Carpenter needs to shrink 2-4 inches
and develop a swing that allows his hands to get in front of the rotational torque provided by his trunk and lower half?
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
by azruavatar on Jun 2, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know . . .
I hit cancel on a comment earlier that was going to be dirty but somehow this one slipped through the brain to finger censor filter.
(Earlier comment respond to ClemsonGirl’s sensitive friends: If they’re easily offended by you, give me 5 minutes in a room with them and I’ll make them cry.)
I need a beer. . .
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
Oh my gosh I cannot imagine that situation.
First of all they would be freaked out because you are from the internet, and then they would be freaked out because you are a robot…wow. They might explode.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
your friends suck.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
so you're saying the FIRST thing that they'd be aware of is his internettyness?
As opposed to his shiny metal ass?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
wayyyy ahead of you.
btw, my friend and i are going to back a stop by itap before this summer is all set and done. any suggestions?
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
They have what is probably my new favorite beer
Matilda by Goose Island brewery. Effing amazing.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
I really like their IPA
Matilda is pretty solid as well, though.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 3, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Usually have Milk Stout on tap too if you like dark beers.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
wait
the Cardinals made an inexplicable roster move? Stop the presses!
"You made me live a lie, Tony," Paquette says, "and it ends this morning. Not everybody can play second base."
Bonjour de Paris VEB!
(Hello from Paris VEB!) hehe
So I see that the Cardinals lost last night…anything I should know about why or how?
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
nothing new
ryan franklin and Skip Schumaker continue to suck.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
salas blew his first save. he's now 10/11.
franklin looked good in inning #1 (the 10th) but predictably gave up two go ahead runs in the 11th. then the power went out in the bottom of the 11th with 2 out and a man on with a 2-1 count. there was a 16 minute delay before allen craig grounded out to second on the first offering he saw after the delay.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
A bank of lights went out for 10 or 15 minutes.
Delayed the inevitable before the Beard finished us on the next pitch.
A deluge of “lights out closer” puns followed.
Oh lord.
Glad I missed that. Although I sometimes do like really lame puns.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
We went to a Morrocan restaurant and ate couscous like Morrocans do.
Except we used forks. I would have used my hands but no one else was. They also gave us their house wine for free to start with (very small glass) and it was probably the best wine I have ever had. It was a very fruity and sweet Rose. Very, very good. If you’re ever in Paris in the Latin District hit it up, it’s called Le Bon Couscous. Then we had crepes for desert and went back to the hotel. I try to speak in French to people but they figure out I’m American and talk to me in English. It’s annoying when you’re trying to practice for your class later in the summer.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Ou est la vache?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
you insult my mother?
get over here, pal!
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Dans le campagne, probablement...
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Non! Elle est sous la pont, a St Louis!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
WAIT. wasn't there someone else in Paris?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Is there?
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
mojo is over there, I think
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 2, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
or was it a matty
did they ever say… why… they were in Paris?
at the same time as CG?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Wait, seriously?
Because if so that’s insane. Some meeting up needs to happen.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
yeah, he talked about it yesterday.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
but he said something about going internetless for 3 more days.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
WHY?
Well that sucks because we leave in 3 days.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
VEB: we're not creepy. really.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Well if they weren't so easily offended maybe I wouldn't have a reason to take breaks from them.
And I mean extremely easily offended.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
so theirs really is a family blog?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
No.
Not stuff like that. Like I say something totally normal and they flip out and get angry. I mean I literally feel like I cannot speak around some of them sometimes.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Yeah and it's been one day.
Sometimes I hate girls.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Oh no it's okay.
I was not upset just venting.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
haha
i don’t want to meet the people that are offended by ClemsonGirl
probably the nicest person ever
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
I mean sometimes I can come off snappy when I'm tired but that was not the case tonight so I don't even know.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
whoa, take it easy
i didn’t mean anything by it
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Oh VEB, you always know how to cheer me up.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
mojo lives in SF.
i don’t know if he was traveling to paris or whatever.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah it was mojo
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2011/5/31/2200176/game-56-post-game-thread-frankkklin#68579291
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
OMG you can go back to old threads and look this stuff up???
I thought we were just going to keep guessing people’s monikers for the rest of the thread. Isn’t BuzzKillington in Bangkok right now?
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
by azruavatar on Jun 2, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought it was Tanzania.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Tempers are wearing thin. Let’s hope some robot doesn’t kill everybody
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jun 2, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hello, enjoy the U2 concerts!
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Batista continued to succeed by luring hitters into blasting line-drives straight at outfielders.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Possible dumb question:
What doe the TB mean in the hitting area of box scores? I can’t figure it out for the life of me.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
total bases
single = 1, double = 2, etc
Decrease runs scored? Maybe. Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
Great, thanks!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
also, its the numerator in slugging %
(which is TB/AB). probably easier to remember that way
Decrease runs scored? Maybe. Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
Oh that's how they do that!
Thanks!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
i screwed this up all the way until 2009.
i always thought “total bases” were the amount of bases the hitter was hit around to (for example, if they scored a run i thought it was always four TB). yeah, i sort of suck.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Guy in my fantasy league thought the same thing
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 5/29/2011):
39 IP, 51 K, 20 BB/HBP, 16 ER, 2 HR, 2.79 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 2, 2011 7:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Is this the worst pujols-included lineup ever?
Oh, and heh. Cleto
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 5/29/2011):
39 IP, 51 K, 20 BB/HBP, 16 ER, 2 HR, 2.79 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 2, 2011 6:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
um, no way.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, I was kidding
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 5/29/2011):
39 IP, 51 K, 20 BB/HBP, 16 ER, 2 HR, 2.79 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 2, 2011 6:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
did you pay attention to 2008?
this isn’t close
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
the year the strike happened?
no baseball was played that year pal.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Someone smarter than me
How many net wins if we add Heath Bell, Boggs, and Chambers and subtract Jay, Batista, and Franklin.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 5/29/2011):
39 IP, 51 K, 20 BB/HBP, 16 ER, 2 HR, 2.79 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 2, 2011 7:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
why are we getting rid of jay?
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
a trade for the brave pitching prospects i mentioned above.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
I'm against it
Just wondering
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 5/29/2011):
39 IP, 51 K, 20 BB/HBP, 16 ER, 2 HR, 2.79 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 2, 2011 7:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We would give up too much for Bell.
And Jay’s probably the best 4th OF right now.
2011 WAR watch: Theriot = 0.4, Boog = 0.8 as of Jun 01
Bilingual Twitter
play SS competently
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
let's go with the jay-craig middle infield
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
we were the only 2 chanting for Craig to second last year
let’s get Jay to SS with our magic.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
I'm not convinced reliever WAR is theoretically watertight
in fact I’m pretty sure its not.
If we’re talking FG WAR, I’d guess we add something like 1 WAR doing that, depending on how much Chambers is exposed.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
with all these freaking injuries, this is so frustrating
we could have theoretically had waino, carp, jaime, lohse, lego, puma, cheese, j-ed, albert, yadi, freese all healthy and playing well at the same time…
…but i think the world would’ve exploded
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
now imagine reyes in there
-ProphetJohn
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
Your shortstop position is now diamonds!
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
by hazel on Jun 2, 2011 11:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
@BenBadler reports that #Pirates Charlie Morton dominated hotel brunch. “Morton flashed plus fork-work with solid-average OJ sipping.”
http://twitter.com/#!/MLBFakeRumors/status/76343244690173952
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
by prophetjohn on Jun 2, 2011 7:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Just Followed them and they haven't disappointed yet.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
yeah
I think it’s fritz, he cornered the market on fake veb twitter accounts.
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
nope. besides sign guy I don't find any fake cardinal-related twitter accounts very amusing.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
fake dan mclaughlin is hilarious.
come on.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoever is running that should just learn how to write a script and bot peoples tweets to save himself the time.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
it's repetitive, yeah.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
lololol
Heard this: #Braves Uggla, benched + mired in slump, is striking out off the field as well. Turned down by redhead at hotel bar last night.
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
by prophetjohn on Jun 2, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OMG OMG OMG
Bob Costas is doing our game on MLB network
"Skipper, we're losing the crowd. Put it our new novelty act."
"Darn it! I already put in the circus clown!"
"Yeah, but he bunted. Clowns are only funny when they swing away!"
holy shit.
sooooo going to watch that instead of dan and al.
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
FUCKING BLACKOUTS
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
oh wait it's blacked out?!
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
tony cruz' picture on the graphic was descalso, lol
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Gamethread?
THE BATMAN
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the entire time."
President of the Tyler Greene fan club; 4 WAR!!!
@Codeeg
gam thrd?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 42
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2011/6/2/2203839/cards-vs-giants-open-thread
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 8:18 PM EDT reply actions
THREAD THREAD THREAD
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2011/6/2/2203839/cards-vs-giants-open-thread
aiming to please the robot since 2011
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 2, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Lance (the tummy) lynn
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
by thecoolalonzo on Jun 2, 2011 8:38 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
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