Need.
I hope you'll all forgive the abbreviated post today, but various things have come up, and I find myself unusually pressed for time. Then again, considering the nightmare we witnessed last night, there really isn't much of anything nice I can say anyhow. And, as our mothers told us, if you can't say anything nice, it may be better to simply say nothing at all.
So rather than composing a 2000 word diatribe on my hatred for watching Ryan Theriot butcher play after play at shortstop, or the uniquely hopeless feeling that comes from seeing Miguel Batista or Ryan Franklin warming in the bullpen, knowing the inexorability of what's about to happen all to well, I'm just going to ask you, denizens of El Vivi Birders: what do we need most?
We've reached the point in the season when most teams, for better or for worse, have shown their colours pretty well. Things may change a bit, of course, particularly if injury forces a roster into a new shape, but by the time you pass 54 and start heading for 81, you are, for the most part, what you are. You needs, whatever they may be, are not illusions.
So what does this team need most? Left-handed relief has to be a concern, considering the abject awfulness of Trever Miller and the mediocrity of Brian Tallet. The middle infield is an annual irritation, and is worse than usual at the moment. I don't know about you, but I don't feel at all confident in Kyle McClellan for the rest of the year. I don't know if I would call the rotation the biggest concern as of yet, though. Third base has reared its ugly, annual head again, with David Freese still made of highly combustible material, Matt Carpenter receiving limited opportunity, and Daniel Descalso just not offering a ton of offense.
So there it is, folks. If you have only one bullet to shoot, what do you try and address? And, perhaps a larger question: is there one bullet that can get this team over the hypothetical hump? We've all seen enough of this squad to have a pretty good idea by now of what they can and cannot do. Are the Cards close enough for one small move to make a real difference? Or, for that matter, one large move?
Oh, and while I certainly understand the sentiment, I don't think trading the manager is an option. Just in case you were thinking along those lines.
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I say pitching
Either upgrading the bullpen, or upgrading the rotation (which in turn upgrades the bullpen, i.e. KMac would move back to the pen).
Larry B. had a part in the mothership’s “round two” feature, where he advocated trading for someone like Francisco Liriano, that I found to be an interesting option that I hadn’t previously thought about.
havent we done this?
a injury plagued pitcher with upside?
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
I agree: SP is my preference
I surely don’t like watching Theriot push baseballs across dirt instead of making outs, but he did get on base four times and it seems to me we made that bed. What I think is our biggest need is a boost to the SP ranks. A true addition (not ace, but good) to the Rotation would help us in multiple facets:
- boost SP depth for inevitable regression (Lohse), injury (pick one), provide depth in case Carp and Westy can’t bounce back to career output levels, and most importantly…
- push KMAC back to Pen (bumping one leg of Franklinista off 25 man) so he can setup.
- with better performance out of SP, we can shorten our bullpen, load, reinforce it with KMAC and get it back to productive (Motte, Boggs, Sanchez and Salas are a great arsenal). Add KMAC and boom.
- doesn’t address LOOGY needs, but KMAC and Boggs both have ability to get Lefties out. Sanchez and Salas do too.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 15, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know who though
Liriano—pipe dream
Beurhle—bigger pipe dream
not sure who, but thats what I think is necessary.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 15, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
my pesimistic doubts
would be they go scrap heap diving… again
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
tear
cuz its true
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jun 15, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
as angry as dumpster diving has made all of us
I wouldnt want them to overspend on dumpster guys either…
think of it this way They could have overspent on Batista several years ago..thank you seattle…
so theoretically if a good talent comes in FA or trades they can make one?
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
As far as trades go...I'm guessing Craig would be the first person named by whomever Mo might call
I’m guessing Craig would be the first person named by whomever Mo might call.
oh, and agree on Theriot
I’d like better defense, but he gets on base and management made it clear they were focusing on offense, so… no sense in harping on it – Theriot’s our starting SS and I doubt very much that will change.
thanks again seattle for
over bidding on that guy
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
this year
the rest of the time not really…they gave up aton to get him
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
haha
although arent some of the pieces the Os got now gone? and Jones has struggle hasnt he?
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
Jones definitely hasn't panned out into the mega-superstar that he looked like he might become
But he’s been useful. See also: Matt Wieters.
he played well early for them
after the deal, then kinda cooled down. heres the other guys…
outfielder Adam Jones and pitchers George Sherrill(traded), Tony Butler, Chris Tillman and Kam Mickolio(traded)
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
How about
Jones and Uehara from Baltimore?
by monkeysareblue on Jun 16, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Beurhle
is a FA after this year, correct? So, if they’re out of the race, might they look to trade him? Of course, we probably wouldn’t like the price for such a trade. As mentioned, Craig would likely be one name floated (or Miller (S. not T.) which would be a stupid trade for us).
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 15, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That's why I really hate trading for big name players.
It always seems to cost more than it should and there’s too much potential to get burned. Of course, the flipside to it is that they wouldn’t be worth trading for if they weren’t a name.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 15, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
i would also like to point out, on Buehrle.
Pitcher A: 2011 xFIP 4.02, career xFIP 4.03
Pitcher B: 2011 xFIP 4.29, career xFIP 4.23
Pitcher C: 2011 xFIP 4.23, career xFIP 4.02
Pitcher A is Kyle McClellan
Pitcher B is Mark Buehrle
Pitcher C is Jake Westbrook.
Mark Buehrle is not that good. his principal value lies in the fact that he has thrown 200 innings for 10 straight years, and will probably continue to do so. but i don’t think eating innings is what this team needs- if we are going to make an upgrade at SP, which i think is extremely silly given all the factors, what we need is a serious PERFORMANCE increase. and i really don’t think Mark Buehrle will do that. additionally, he’s going to cost an arm and a leg to get, which is again just plain silly.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
If I can make a vast generalization
I don’t really want a guy who can’t hit 90 on his fastball. Even though I like Buehrle.
i like Buehrle too, and i would have loved to see him added to this rotation a while ago
or if Lance Lynn was our 5th starter and Jake Westbrook hadn’t been signed to a contract, i’d love to trade for him. but the fact is, as it stands now, Buehrle just doesn’t add much except depth. if we were going to trade for a starter, i’d vastly prefer going after someone like Liriano (even though i don’t think we should trade for a starter at all). like lboros said in the mothership article, at least Liriano could possibly go out there and just blow the other team away in any given start. i never, ever have that feeling about Buehrle.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
you've changed my mind
I probably wouldn’t have liked what we’d have to give up to get Buehrle anyway, but this shows that he’s definitely not worth any deal that involves Craig, Martinez, even Jay or unproven players like Cox. As you said, we need someone to replace Wainwright, not replicate Westbrook or McClellan.
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 15, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
there's always this guy
and VEB would explode
Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: The Riot 4, Rasmus 8, Pujols 3, Berkman 9, Jay 7, Molina 2, Greene T. 6, DD 5, pitcher (Get well soon: Holliday, Craig, Punto, Freese, Waino)
he has said he wants to stay in WA
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
They would be willing to get rid of his salary
And Mo should be talking to the Mets and Dodgers about potential salary dumps too.
Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: The Riot 4, Rasmus 8, Pujols 3, Berkman 9, Jay 7, Molina 2, Greene T. 6, DD 5, pitcher (Get well soon: Holliday, Craig, Punto, Freese, Waino)
Replace Batista with Boggs...
…by DFAing him. Find an-udder lefty and DFA either Miller or Tallet – Kazmir is available, I am sure there are udders; trade Skip, Bryan Anderson, and an-udder pitching piece to someone, say, Frisco, for someone, say, Johnathan Sanchez, or Liriano + someone with the Twins. No one bullet is gonna dew it, but maybe 3 little bullets will.
Griebenschmaltz!
Then I would start Craig at second...
…and back up third, second, and short with Greene, Descalso and Punto. I think we’re stuck with Riot at short, but I’d moove him around some and get Greeney some reps at the position too.
Griebenschmaltz!
Pretty sure it would take more than that for SF to give up Sanchez...
I don’t perceive other teams having such a rosy outlook on Skip at 2b as we do (by we, I mean the Cardinals org, not VEB).
If you started with Craig, Boggs, and then another piece… well, I don’t think they’d bite on that either, but you’d be closer, IMO.
And anyway, it’s probably a moot point as SF is currently leading the West.
lohse is really good...he isnt coming down to earth
the guy can pitch and I stand by that
bullpen bullpen bullpen is what I want….for how hard Batista can throw (reaches 95 consistently) I dont know why he is so bad
Kmac move to the bullpen is a good idea/possibility
Again, I just look at the giants and see that they won with juan uribe and freddy sanchez, mike fontenot..etc….I dont know if was just luck but they had the pen to beat
by guillermozeliak on Jun 15, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
jeff francis?
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
or - shake the tree in LA.
hiroki kuroda and ted lilly are both pretty big chunks of the payroll. dodgers are 8 games out. why struggle to make payroll to pay some good but not great pitchers not to make the playoffs?
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
What about Chris Capuano?
Mets have to unload payroll, admittedly he’s only paid 1.5 mil, but he’s a serviceable lefty, could be a 4th or 5th starter, or a loogy, wouldn’t cost much in prospects.
who does he replace?
do you want to bump KMac from the rotation for him?
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
If K-Mac doesn't have the stamina to go 160-170 innings
and his recent stint sure seems to indicate that. I’d rather see K-Mac be effective for the rest of the season in the pen and Cap take the back of the rotation.
fair enough.
he’s not that bad, honestly- looks better than even Buehrle, if we go by the pure periphs.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
He's got starter makeup
and also has a .227 baa lefties.
Biggest need has to be SS....
Our SP has been pretty bad lately, but Carp’s luck should turn around some and hopefully even out any regression from McClellan. Given how well our offense has been, I think our rotation is good enough to get us into the postseason, and improving defensively should definately make it easier on them.
I would like to see us try and get JJ Hardy….I can’t imagine he would cost too much to pry away from BAL. LHRP has to be second on the list of needs….Miller and Tallet have been awful so far and we really don’t have any other options if they continue to suck…unless the team wants to give N.Greenwood or J.Gast a shot as a LOOGY, at this point I don’t know that this is such a bad idea, both have pitched pretty well so far this season.
by mick311 on Jun 15, 2011 2:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
the RH side of our bullpen has actually been pretty awesome
If you remove Batista and Franklin. Not having a reliable LH down the stretch to pitch to guys like Fielder, Votto, Bruce, etc will really hurt us.
I know Nick Greenwood isn’t much of a prospect and SSS but this year out of the bullpen in AA he has not given up run against leftys.
Overall: 33.2IP, 2.41era, 19k, 10bb, .208baa
Vs. L: 14.1IP, 0.0era, 11k, 4bb, .130baa
by mick311 on Jun 15, 2011 2:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The buzz on the 'net is that the Orioles are trying to extend Hardy ASAP.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
I really wanted us to sign him in the offseason
by mick311 on Jun 15, 2011 2:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Woulda been better than this nonsense, for sure.
"Sometimes you scare me." - azruavatar
by spants on Jun 15, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A Short Stop who can pitch.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Jun 15, 2011 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I know a guy in the Dodgers organization who fits the bill
Be careful what you wish for.
by cloistermaximus on Jun 15, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
A "best player on his Little League team" type?
Yes, that would be nice. Pitching every fifth day and starting shortstop the other four.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Tony Pena Jr?
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
And hit
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Jun 15, 2011 8:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm pretty sure TPJr got a hit once
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
well maybe by accident
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Jun 16, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Theriot lie must find absolution
After trading for The Riot, all we heard from Mo on down was, “No – he really is good. He was moved to second base because that other team had a REALLY good short stop, but Ryan Theriot is good. Trust us!” Turns out, he’s scrappy and gets his uniform dirt encrusted all the time, and he is an adequate lead-off guy (which we DID need) with uncanny OBP ability – but as a defender he looks like he’s playing with a cardboard glove. It’s time to face the truth/lie and admit there was REASON to move him to 2b, get a + defending short shop who doesn’t give away outs, and move on. Trade him, move him to second, don’t care. But the guy is a liability not an asset at his current position.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
Theriot does need to move to 2B
But I don’t think he needs to go. He’s been a steady performer in the leadoff spot — not amazing, but steady. Here are the OBPs we’ve gotten from the leadoff spot in past year:
2011: .341
2010: .306
2009: .360 (Skip was good that year!)
2008: .345 (again, mostly Skip)
2007: .323
2006: .335
So Theriot is holding it down somewhat with the bat. I’d just prefer his glove and arm at 2B, where there’s almost always more room for error defensively.
I'd prefer him at 2B
just so that Skip wouldn’t be. Beyond that, you’d have to deal with him having less of an arm on DPs. That’s about the only thing Skip has going for him.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 15, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
He’s a good enough hitter that his bat should play most days. I’d like to see him start at second with Delscalso spelling.
Schumaker is far worse than Theriot, cut him loose.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Jun 15, 2011 8:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
theriot sucks. we all know that.
And I hate watching him play baseball. I hate when they show his wad of chew underneath his stupid@$$ soul patch moving around like a prairie dog burrowing in before a rainstorm.
But he offers appreciable offense. Our LOOGYs offer nothing. And our middle relief offers nothing and actually hurts us even when theyre not pitching as Miklasz has said bc it hamstrings TLR. Im resigned to the fact that the offense is just going to have to carry the day. Make the offense as good as possible by living/dying with Theriot, get back Freese, and bat Craig at 2b against all LHP and most RHP.
Get LH bullpen help and whichever makes the most sense – a SP to move McClellan back to the 6/7 inning role (whether by trade or calling up Lynn or Ottavino) or another RH bullpen arm.
we have the + defensive shortstop. his name is Nick Punto. just saying.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
If the BOB
had a real 2nd baseman, would the riot be as much of an issue?
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
I do think we're just a piece away, if that.
Considering all that’s gone better and worse than expected so far, I think we’re playing fairly close to our overall talent level, which will compete for the division and wild-card.
I think we have some good in house options to work our MIF problems, but we desperately need a good lefty in the pen.
A place to discuss the future of the Roger Dean Project is here.
for the amount of injuries
they have had they are still in the hunt…
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
That's also true...
Just get everyone healthy and producing at the same time, and it would do wonders.
every team has injuries
yet this year reminds me one of years past when the rotation was plagued and they still conteded I believe B cox got manager of the year but TLR deserved it…they had like 13 IIRC different starting guys..
this year its all around the diamond
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
National League Central.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
are Theriot and Schumaker both only signed through this year?
by mick311 on Jun 15, 2011 3:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Theriot is on a one-year contract,
but he is arbitration eligible. Meaning he is likely not going anywhere.
Schumaker is on the last year of his contract, but I can’t remember if we bought out all of his arbitration years with it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I believe both will have one year of arb eligibility left.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
you're correct
Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: The Riot 4, Rasmus 8, Pujols 3, Berkman 9, Jay 7, Molina 2, Greene T. 6, DD 5, pitcher (Get well soon: Holliday, Craig, Punto, Freese, Waino)
I'm definitely ready to move on without those guys
2011 WAR watch: Theriot = 0.5, Boog = 1.0 as of Jun 14
Bilingual Twitter
well, he (Skip) could be non-tendered
(he won’t be, but he could)
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 15, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Best Buy has PS3 for $299, and you get a $100 gift certificate back
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
that's pretty nice
because chances are you’re gonna buy some games
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Biggest need
Healthy Holliday, Punto, Craig, and Freese. I could live with a Craig/Punto team at second (where Craig gets three ABs or something and then is taken out/moved to spell Berkman) and The Riot at SS, or some other alignment, but the point is that Punto is a rock solid fielder and the Cards NEED to have that. Craig, Skip, and The Riot holding down those MIF spots just screams defensive fail to me. Descalso has been awesome defensively but he can’t hit at all. So, Freese needs to be back and play in bubble wrap. Honestly the wise move is dumping Skippy completely. He serves no purpose at all with all of those guys healthy. None.
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2011 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
For just a healthy Holliday and Freese...
I’d be willing to put up with Schumaker at 2nd full time.
by monkeysareblue on Jun 16, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
holy crap
i may have just landed myself a job 1.5 years from graduating. game developer dying for C++ programmers. the only hangup would be whether or not they would go part-time with me, because, bish, i’m finishing school. but if they’d work around my school schedule, that would be amazing. make loads of money and graduate with non-trivial experience? bet
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Congrats, man
That sounds like a great opportunity
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Why don't you school around their work scheduele instead?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
well, that's probably what i would do
but the main thing is, i doubt i could work full-time. definitely not 60-80 hours a week
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
holy shit that's a lot of hours.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
such is the life of a game developer
but my reasoning is that if they’re so desperate, they might be willing to take what they can get (ie part time, relatively unskilled)
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
I was at about 60 hours last week
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
But your paycheck makes it totally wor
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Jun 15, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Totes
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Are you serious?
I work way more than 40. Most people I know work 40 or more.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I work 40. I haven't worked more than 42 since I left the hell hole
(aka – Bank of America)
Then again I have slowed my upward projectory in exchange for being able to spend more time with the kids. I couldn’t work 50+ hours a week and make many T-ball games
/priorities
"Bud Norris shoves it up our rear end every time he starts"
—Skip Schumaker
yeah, its going to be interesting once that time comes for me.
What was the switch like? I think I would go broke working 40 even if my salary stayed the same – I’d be so pumped to be out of work while it was light out I’d be tempted to do something every night
its good to have financial goals
For a while it was paying down debt, then it was saving for a bigger house (we lived in a 864 sq ft house with 4 kids and a dog until last fall) and now its family vacations/house improvements. I try to be very careful with my money so I can do what I really want instead of being impulsive. It wasn’t always easy, but I’ve gotten better over the past 5 years or so.
"Bud Norris shoves it up our rear end every time he starts"
—Skip Schumaker
Start your day earlier
Also, just walk away. Though of course I have the tether with me at all times.
Some weeks I work 30, some weeks I work 50 (or 60, or whatever the hell is needed)
Basically just try to average 160 every four week period.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Funny you should post this.
Bernie firmly states that it won’t happen in today’s Bytes:
Look, you can holler all night and day, holler so loud that Ozzie Smith can hear you. You can concoct bizarre trade scenarios that have zero chance of happening. Or you could really lose your mind and advocate full-time playing status for Tyler Greene. But Ryan Theriot is the shortstop. And he will continue to be the shortstop. Period.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
oh, i hold out no hope of it actually happening and totally agree with bernie's reasoning
but i want it so bad
maybe we can just sign him as a FA
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
You beat me to it.
This drives me insane. There is a clear opportunity to make this team better and they are reluctant to make the move because Theriot is “the guy” or because of some consistency bullshit?
2011 WAR watch: Theriot = 0.5, Boog = 1.0 as of Jun 14
Bilingual Twitter
Jose Reyes has consistently been the league's best player in 2011.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
By move I mean
move Theriot to 2B. I still believe Reyes would be way too expensive
2011 WAR watch: Theriot = 0.5, Boog = 1.0 as of Jun 14
Bilingual Twitter
just look at it. LOOK AT IT
Reyes
Theriot
Pujols
Holliday
Berkman
Rasmus
Freese
Yadi
Pitcher
Or if you want. (pitchers bat 8th)
Reyes
Rasmus
Pujols
Holliday
Berkman
Freese
Yadi
Pitcher
Theriot
Grit != flat out sucking.
no no no
Reyes
Rasmus
Pujols
Holliday
Berkman
Freese
Craig
Yadi
P
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
you're right!
I was doing it all wrong!!
Switch Craig and Freese until Freese gets his swing back.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Here is what mine would be:
Reyes
Rasmus
Pujols
Holliday
Berkman
Craig
Freese
Molina
Pitcher
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
In a world where the starting price for Jose Reyes is Shelby Miller
do you hang up or listen?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Hang up
Reyes is a free agent after this year, yeah?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Oh yeah.
I honestly don’t think we have anything the Mets would be interested in outside of Shelby/Carlos.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
and he's gonna want nine figures.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
Laugh at the offer, then hang up.
2011 WAR watch: Theriot = 0.5, Boog = 1.0 as of Jun 14
Bilingual Twitter
I ask if they have heard about Martinez
and I attempt to build a deal around him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
might be hard
what if we find a girl named shelby miller?
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
With Reyes
they’ve got a legit shot at a World Series title, I say you make the trade if its just Miller.
Shelby Miller is worth 3+ months of Jose Reyes?
really? if it GUARANTEED us a title i would still be somewhat iffy about it. there is literally no chance in hell that we sign him in free agency, so i am going to say negatory on this one.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
theres a literal chance we would re-sign him
it just involves #5 literally playing in a different uniform as he chases down Barry Bonds.
i cannot see the Cardinals paying Jose Reyes nine figures no matter what happens with Albert.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
Pitching
If you want something cheap, go give Pedro Martinez a shot. Either the pen or starting. Then if you want to trade for someone else or other position, you still have the chips.
I'm not sure how I feel about that.
I think I would be ok with it. It’s a very interesting idea though….
"Skipper, we're losing the crowd. Put it our new novelty act."
"Darn it! I already put in the circus clown!"
"Yeah, but he bunted. Clowns are only funny when they swing away!"
by KlausChadman on Jun 15, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
biggest need?
i just don’t know. With the way it feels like this team has been playing (if you know what i mean) it seems that we should be 6 billion games below .500. but as it stands we’re very possibly a proper contender, it feels too soon to call any area in need of an upgrade over any other.
totes babes
I think this is an acceptable answer thus far into the season
I think the picture will be clearer as we get closer to the All-Star Break. You make a good point in terms of perspective – it’s too soon, so are we all really suggesting “wants” over “needs?”
If you want to fix the bullpen's left side,
I’d suggest giving Raul Valdes a try. Since returning to relief after his May 12th start, he has 15 strikeouts and 1 walk in 13.1 IP. He was also a superb LOOGy for the Mets last year. The cardinals don’t need to trade for a LOOGy just like they don’t need to trade for a right handed reliever. Instead they need to make sure the bullpen has the best 7 relievers within the system.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
QUIT COMING UP WITH REASONABLE IDEAS YOU DAMN ROBOT!
Don’t you know that’s not allowed here at the P-D forum?
—looks around—
Wait, I’m not there, I’m here at a oasis of clearer thought!
—slinks away—
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate these threads because I see all the great ideas but none of them will ever be implemented
"Hunter Pence out at home, catcher Gerald Laird. Three out." STL @ HOU, 4/28/11
# VEB Gamethreads missed (i.e., Lifelessness Factor): 10/65
I'm working on teaching a horse to play third base!
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
no need, Albert's playing 3B
Theriot SS
Rasmus CF
Pujols 3B
Berkman 1B
Andrew Brown.. I don’t know who this is RF
Jay LF
Molina C
Schumaker 2B
McClellan P
Nationals
Werth RF
Bernadina CF
Zimmerman 3B
Nix LF
Morse 1B
Espinosa 2B
Rodriguez C
Hernandez P
Desmond SS
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
is this today's lineup?
God damn Schumaker
"Hunter Pence out at home, catcher Gerald Laird. Three out." STL @ HOU, 4/28/11
# VEB Gamethreads missed (i.e., Lifelessness Factor): 10/65
by hr on Jun 15, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
yup.
at least he’s batting 8th. this is a pretty ridiculous offensive lineup, though given our current DL.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
would be a lot more fun if Holliday and Craig were out there instead of Brown and Jay... but i agree
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
This lineup makes crystal clear how much Holliday and Craig are missed.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
uh oh . . .
.
.
.
Nix
Morse
Espinosa
.
.
Three in a row that we have had lots of trouble with this year.
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 15, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike Morse is a good baseball player.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
wasn't implying he wasn't
just noting he’s given us fits this year. The other two, yea, they seem to hit us better than they should based on total season performance (‘course, that’s probably selective memory/bias at play).
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 15, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
but for my two cents: I'd have to agree that the biggest need is pitching (both SP and RP)
The offense has shown that when the deciding factors are healthy, it has the capability to churn out at least 4 runs a night. If our SP stays consistent, we should be fine but after the recent hash of 5 inning starts, I’m getting kind of worried. But I definitely think the most important need is to replace most of Batista, Franklin, Tallet, and Miller. There’s no way we can win with these four guys the way they’re “pitching”.
"Hunter Pence out at home, catcher Gerald Laird. Three out." STL @ HOU, 4/28/11
# VEB Gamethreads missed (i.e., Lifelessness Factor): 10/65
by hr on Jun 15, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
when 1/3 of your pitching staff sucks, it makes it difficult.
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 15, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Has anyone checked the stats
on BA/OBP before and after the ’stache change?
a couple of thoughts.
first, i think the bullet we need is a left handed reliever. i really feel that given the current 40 man roster + DL of this club, IF THE ROSTER IS MANAGED PROPERLY, all we need is a left handed reliever. that being said, i have no confidence that this roster will be managed properly. the things that worry me are the last 4 spots on the roster- the last 2 bench spots and the last 2 bullpen spots. for what it’s worth: my ideal 25 man (playoff roster??) is as follows:
Position Players:
Molina, Laird/Anderson, Pujols, Theriot, Descalso, Berkman, Jay, Rasmus, Holliday, Craig, Punto, Freese, Greene
Starting Pitchers:
Carpenter, Lohse, Garcia, Westbrook, McClellan
Relief Pitchers:
Boggs, Motte, Sanchez, Salas, Left handed pitcher X, Tallet, Franklin
i am ready to be murdered here based on the inclusion of Franklin. i would prefer right handed reliever X here- don’t get me wrong. Augenstein, perhaps. that being said, Franklin being the last reliever bothers me a LOT less than Batista and Franklin being the last 2 relievers.
i also feel that especially if we make the playoffs, we are going to see Albert playing 3B more than we expect. Tony seems to like this, and despite my reservations, there’s just no getting around the fact that having Albert, Colby, Berkman, Holliday, Jay/Craig, and maybe even both (if Craig is playing 2B) in the lineup at the same time adds dramatically to the offensive firepower of this team (with all due respect to Freese, who i just have absolutely no trust in anymore). and if our defensive infield is Pujols, Punto, Theriot/Craig, Berkman, i can’t say i am extremely upset about that. having Punto in the game just makes me so much more comfortable with our defense.
now that i’ve written a book…
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
If Freese is healthy,
I don’t see Pujols playing much more third base.
Also, if Berkman’s legs are healthy, I don’t see Pujols playing much more third base.
Since Freese suffered a broken hand, third base has produced little in the way of offense. If Freese can come back healthy and produce, I don’t think there will be the need for Pujols at third.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i just don't have the trust in Freese to come back and produce.
i guess you’re probably right, and i am sure he will also get Tony’s benefit of the doubt when he gets back- i just see how incredibly strong our lineup is offensively with Holliday, Craig, and Rasmus in the outfield and Pujols and Berkman in the infield, and i like it.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
I assume everyone has seen this cowparison...
…between Joba the Hut and KMac?
Pretty sweet…
:=8)
Griebenschmaltz!
also, not sure if anyone has seen or posted this
apologies if i am repeating, but in the Washington Post today:
"Our fans are more tolerant of [Miguel] Batista, [Trever] Miller and [Jason] Motte than they would have been of Franklin."
really, Tony? you’re lumping Motte in there with Batista and Miller? really?
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
maybe tony's logic for bringing in Batista is "at least it's not Franklin" and vice versa
i know my roommate makes that joke whenever one of them comes in anyway.
by molina mo problems on Jun 15, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
wow, that's not like Tony to change the narative following one of his players totally sucking.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
I saw that in the P-D today too
unbelievable. So, if Batista blows the game it causes less stress in the fanbase than if Franklin had done so? Still no reason to not have someone warming behind him once he let two runners on.
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 15, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
He's aware that the game was being played in Washington D.C., right?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Huh?
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Craig out 3-6 weeks now with a fracture in his patella.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
hey where do you get your info
this is not good…at least we have holliday back
by guillermozeliak on Jun 15, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
goddammit.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
FUUUUUUUUUUUU.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
My anti-Schumaker dreams
keep getting trampled by the dead unicorn of baseball injuries.
remember when we all were excited about playing a converted OF to 2b
because of his bat? Why couldnt the one with the hollow BA bust a kneecap
Brightside?
At least we didn’t screw around and play shorthanded while we waited to see how the injury responded to rest and treatment. A shame it cost us Holiday for a couple weeks to learn that lesson.
by Handsome B Wonderful on Jun 15, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
from Monday
“Greg and I put in a lot of work to kind of force it to bend through the pain. It was a lot of work but I feel pretty good about where I’m at right now,”
wonderful, Cardinals. wonderful.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
As a PT, this horrifies me
Our medical team cannot really be this bad, right?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 6/3/2011):
51 IP, 63 K, 22 BB/HBP, 21 ER, 2 HR, 2.41 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 15, 2011 6:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bernie is going to go ballistic over this one, correctly.
by George Hendricks Stirrups on Jun 15, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this already old news here?
Sanchez is out for “a few days” (not just unavailable tonight, which is what I thought they were saying earlier today) with shoulder tightness.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 15, 2011 5:55 PM EDT reply actions
fuck fuck fuck
i KNEW that was a bad sign when he was throwing 88. UGH.
yes/no: does Francisco Samuel see the 25-man roster this year?
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
i don't think he's seen the memphis roster yet.
"chipper jones grounds out, third baseman albert pujols to first baseman mark hamilton." 5.1.11 "carlos pena grounds into double play, second baseman allen craig to shortstop tyler greene to first baseman albert pujols." 5.12.11
yeah, i guess that was a silly question
seems like the only person on the 40-man who hasn’t been up though.
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
him, Reifer, Kopp, Anderson, Cox and Chambers.
ok, guess i was wrong
Aaron Rowand reaches on a fielder's choice out, left fielder Allen Craig to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Daniel Descalso. Andres Torres out at home. Aaron Rowand to 2nd on the throw. Two out.
So, the Cardinals are now 2-10 in games involved in the FSM/U-verse dispute
Just throwing that out there for (un)amusement purposes. BTW, there are still 8 games remaining that are threatened to be blacked out on U-verse.
F'in Uverse
man I hate them
"Bud Norris shoves it up our rear end every time he starts"
—Skip Schumaker
Just in case you hadn't seen this
http://urlybits.com/2011/05/gravity-defying-baseball-bat/
Still not a werewolf.
Fuck these injuries
If we lose Sanchez for the year (don’t say I’m being over-dramatic, josh Johnson was supposed to miss a few days with “shoulder tightness,” he’s on the 60-day DL now) it all but assures a full season of franktista.
I hate when injuries derail promising seasons. So damn unfair
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of 6/3/2011):
51 IP, 63 K, 22 BB/HBP, 21 ER, 2 HR, 2.41 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 15, 2011 6:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Cards need:
first and foremost, to stay healthy. unfortunately, that is easier said than done. but there would be less problems if there weren’t tons of injuries. starting to seem normal.
second, similar to last year, Cardinals need to ditch the detritus i.e. batista, franklin, schu
third (most aggravating): players need to play where they should play (once healthy). Punto at short with Greene to back him up; Theriot or Craig at second (sucks that Craig’s kneecap is fractured, but that was a nasty collision with the metal fence in houston’s peewee golf playground); don’t send guys like Boggs down to the minors when they are doing better than guys who are staying on the team… sends a bad message overall.
please, no more bullpen poetry
my blog
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2011 6:43 PM EDT reply actions
beating a dead horse
I would do two things. The first based on an unsubstantiated hunch.
Watching Theriot’s face when he screws up; watching his face when he does something good, like hit a sharp single, or steal a base, or actually complete a double-play; watching his body language when he totally gives up on a ground ball he knows (all too quickly) that he can’t get to [a kind of a “why waste the effort” attitude]. All this gives me a hunch that he isn’t well liked by his fellow players.
Thus, bench him. Team morale may improve, in a ‘wow, Tony really does have some balls’ sort of way. Greene will eventually hit, and with some power too, if he plays every day. and Punto is an Alex Gonzalez type.
I still remember hearing how the Braves gave Gonzalez a standing ovation in the clubhouse when he re-joined the team last year and they gave up on the very unpopular Escobar.
The second bold move would be two cull one, two or even all three of the bullpen trio of Franklin, Batista and Miller.

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